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The Log Cabin Republicans’ Self-Hatred, By Rachel Maddow

“It’s astonishing,” says Rachel Maddow of the Log Cabin Republicans backing Mike Fitzpatrick to replace Pennsylvania Rep. Patrick Murphy, when it was Murphy who spearheaded the repeal of DADT in the House. Fitzpatrick is among the incoming freshman class who gave the House a Republican majority, which LCR championed. So how can LCR reconcile supporting a Republican House (that will almost certainly block any future attempts at DADT repeal) while actively campaigning against the military law? Because it has that little DADT lawsuit — LCR v. United States, currently on appeal — to fall back on. And wouldn’t it be a wonderful thing to put in a press release that it was LCR’s lawsuit, and not Democratic lawmakers, who managed to kill DADT? That trump card seems to be the ultimate end goal.

By:           Max Simon
On:           Dec 16, 2010
Tagged: , , , ,

  • 98 Comments
    • Daez
      Daez

      I’m certain that they don’t want to see DADT taken down any way it can be. I mean, that isn’t why they filed a lawsuit after all.

      Perhaps, the reality is that LCR is a group of gays that can put being gay aside when it comes to causes that matter more.

      Fixing the economy, mending Obamacare, ending hand outs, solving the budget crisis, focusing on the future of our children, and ending the conflict in Afghanistan all matter much more than where we put our dicks.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 10:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      That’s exactly right. As a gay Republican who worked on the campaign of one of those Congressional freshmen, I can confirm that gay Republicans are able to put aside their own selfishness for the good of the country.

      Personally, I would rather be able to put food on my table with my boyfriend, than a husband to starve with.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:03 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Riker: Oh, come on now. You know that all gay causes should be the only thing the government bothers to focus on and every time we get a gay ally we should give them a pass on all other things. Surely, you must know that.

      Also, you must take it to heart that people that work for their money (see people that make over $250,000) should be punished by higher taxes so that welfare mom’s and their ten kids (conveniently spaced out so that the last one turns 18 when the bitch turns 65) can sit on their asses with their ipods and ipads and get hand outs from that money.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ronbo
      Ronbo

      @Daez: Is this post another nickel in your bank account, Diez? Please take your bought and paid for trolling to red state. At least there, you’ll be among those you love most: uneducated bigots and hypocrites.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Devon
      Devon

      Any gay person supporting Rethuglicans at this point need to have their gay card immediately revoked and run through a cross-shredder.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Ronbo: I live in Ohio. In many cases, I’m already among those uneducated bigots and homophobes.

      Seriously, I think I hit a nerve. Not everyone agrees with you. We can be gay and not agree with you. Not all gays should be forced to agree with you.

      Forgive me if I don’t want to see the whole world go to hell with nothing being done to change it while we all debate rather gays should be married or not.

      Lets fix the economy and sure up causes that matter more, then we can debate gay marriage till your little heart is content.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Devon: I lost mine long ago when I realized that trying to confine myself to the narrow minded view of this community would be detrimental to my well being.

      Please tell me what the Democrats have done for us or for this country.

      Here is a hint, forcing people to buy health insurance, taxing people that actually work for a living, spending $800+ billion on a failed stimulus, and making broken campaign promises all don’t count as doing something.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      I’ll worry about other issues when an entire party isn’t campaigning on my not being a full human being.

      The bile coming out of the GOP on gay issues has unfortunatly turned me into a one issue voter. Why worry about buying a house with a partner when you have states like VA. passing laws saying that two men cannot enter into a contract such as a home purchase together.

      Additionally, the Log Cabin folks who origionally put that lawsuit into play are not the crop that are there now. The origional folks headed by PAtrick Guarino, refused to endorse President Bush and other a few other GOP candidates because of anti-gay rhetoric. However in the last election A different head of Log Cabin was actually trying to lie to cover up anti-gay rhetoric.

      For example they came out and said that McCain had never voted against gays adopting on AZ.

      Well yes, technically that was true except.

      1. McCain isn’t a state politician so he couldn’t vote on that issue in the statehouse

      2. they left out the fact that McCain did TV commercials supporting the law that gays should not be allowed to adopt.

      So again, I have no problem with GAY GOP’s voting with their wallets and I think it is bad for the community to be taken for granted by the Dems who think they have gays locked up, but I can’t get behind a different party until my rights are solid and they stop launching attacks on us.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kokobean
      kokobean

      Riker….you are joking right? Republicans hate you. They would love to build a country where you dont exist at all..anywhere. And you are willing to put them in power for the sake of taxes?! Dude, you are gay. You cant marry…in a large number of states, zero tax protection, you cant serve, you cant walk down the street in many states with your partner and hold his hand, hell you cant live your life properly-the basic human rights you do not have..yet your only concern is your wallet. You realise if they cut taxes it wont make much difference to you because you are gay and your relationship is not recognised under federal law. All this Uncle Toming is really disappointing to me..and im not even gay.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Americans=Rightwingers (John From England)
      Americans=Rightwingers (John From England)

      @Daez: @Riker:

      Was it, or was it not a right wing government that got you guys in this mess? And you want to bring them back because the 8 past years was great for you and your folk?

      And who is the evilly selfish ones?

      Crazy a$$holes.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ronbo
      Ronbo

      @Daez: I’m not asking you to agree with me, I just want you to go home. Do you really need the nickels that bad? Are you forced to troll on your knees by the RNC? Show some dignity. Go home.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Americans=Rightwingers (John From England)
      Americans=Rightwingers (John From England)

      @kokobean:

      Right? The guy needs to be sectioned! And he calls us because we care for people apart then ourselves, healthcare for all etc….selfish!?

      _bang heads on table_

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ceaser in SF
      Ceaser in SF

      How any of us can vote Republican is beyond me. Rethugs wish we didn’t exist!!. Maddow is absolutely right. Log Cabins=Self loathe.My boss is one of them and He is a prick!

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @Riker: I’d rather not have to choose. I am a Libertarian and an LCR sympathizer. I will never vote for a Democunt. The Log Cabin Republicans took the Obreeder administration to court, and won, but that breeder undermined the authority of the judiciary system to hog all the glory for him and his corrupt Democunt party. I will never credit them with anything.

      You can’t have my GayCard anymore than the government can have MY money or MY rights.

      @kokobean: I’m sick of white breeder “liberals” (read: leftist-corporatist pirates) telling us gays how to vote. Fuck off, beaver breath (if you are a female, fuck off, breeder-boy bait).

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @Daez:

      @Riker:

      Do you two numskulls really believe that any government will bring about the changes you list easier, and quicker, than ending DADT? Seriously?

      American governments have been hammering at these issues for centuries, and still haven’t gotten them dealt with. Yet all DADT needs is a vote.

      The arguments that homocons care more about AMERICA! than gay equality is a line of bullshit used to disguise the fact that you don’t really care about equality.

      The fact is ending DADT will benefit many, many Americans. The fact that it won’t benefit you DAEZ, a RICKER personally means you don’t give a tinker’s damn about it. ME, ME, ME! is the homocon chant. But the reality is ending DADT will benefit the military, it’s troops, and America. But because it won’t put money in your pockets, you’ll sit out the fight. Useless, the both of you.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tjr101
      tjr101

      The Log Cabin Republicans have yet to explain for the rampant homophobia within the GOP? Why did the overwhelming majority of Republicans vote against repeal of DADT in the House despite the results of the Pentagon survey? Pure bigotry!

      Many gay Republicans are racist and if they where straight they would also be homophobic. It’s all self interest for them.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael@LeonardMatlovich.com
      Michael@LeonardMatlovich.com

      BRAVA RACHEL!

      While I give them credit for filing the lawsuit, it is the JUDGE whom we owe the most appreciation. People act as if it was the FIRST lawsuit against the ban, but it most certainly was not. Several have been filed going back 35 years…and some of THEM got rulings that the ban was unconstitutional, too, only to be reversed on appeal.

      RE LC Repugs helping kick Patrick Murphy to the curb, here’s what I told their pompous new whiz kid Clarke Cooper when he defended it by saying that the guy they supported is a “pro-equality” Repug:

      >>>>I’ll take the certainty of an ally like Murphy over the Pie in the Sky promise of Mike Fitzgerald being “pro-equality” SOMEDAY.

      “Fitzpatrick opposes Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” repeal at this time, according to the Bucks County Courier Times. In response to an inquiry about the Senate’s recent failure to move forward with legislation that would end the law, Darren Smith, a Fitzpatrick spokesperson, was quoted as saying Democrats were forcing the issue too soon by not waiting for the completion of a Pentagon study due Dec. 1. ‘What Congress has essentially done here is prejudged the outcome of that study’, Smith reportedly said. ‘If we ask the military to figure something out, why are [Senate Democrats and the White House] taking action now’?” – Washington Blade, 11-2-10.

      Does THAT sound like someone we could count on to go against his homohating Repug caucus Masters? Even Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe wouldn’t do that last week and in September.

      Your endorsement of him was all the more indefensible given that the Repugs would obviously have taken the House without Fitzgerald. You’re entitled to your opinion, but I’m entitled to mine, and here it is at its cold core: you and your self-important clique are self-loathing fools stlll desperate for a pat on the head by the Old Guard status quo. One need look no farther than the demise of the gay-centric “Republican Unity Coalition” which had no less than President Ford, Sen. Alan Simpson, David Rockefeller, and Mary Cheney on its board to know that fantasizing that the current leadership of the GOP has any more potential for supporting a SINGLE gay rights bill than it was during the Bush fils years is political masturbation. I’m confidant you know gay RUC cofounder, and now no longer Republican Charles Francis, so I suggest you get a reality check from him along the lines of what he wrote in a 2009 Blade article: “The idea was that a mainstream gay/straight alliance within the Republican Party could help the party move forward into the 21st century. We were wrong.”

      PS: You only have 9 shopping, er lobbying days left to fulfill your prediction to Karen Ocamb in her interview with you last month that ENDA will be voted on by Christmas. “Log Cabin Republicans will work with the already established pro-equality Republicans to secure additional Republican votes and to whip their colleagues’ votes for ‘yes’ on ENDA.” I see “pro-equality Republicans” is something of a would-be magical incantation for you. Psychiatrists have another term for it: “magical thinking.”<<<<

      Addendum for readers: Mr. Cooper is very busy posing for statues for allegedly having "secured" the votes THIS WEEK for the repeal option bill of Reps. Ros-Lehtinen and Biggert. Having worked for Ros-Lehtinen years ago, he might have influenced her support of repeal…BUT that is NOTHING new. Both women have supported it for years, and Ros-Lehtinen has been an official cosponsor of repeal legislation since 2005. Cooper's years on the staff of the Bush Reich apparently have left him incapable of resisting rewriting facts.

      [img]http://whoisshmira.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/kapo-2.jpg[/img]

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Devon
      Devon

      @Daez:

      The Democrats might be fuck-ups and cowards for the most part, but they don’t actively campaign on how much they hate gays. If a politician comes out and calls homosexuality a threat to the American way of life, or says Jebus doesn’t want us getting married, or any of that nonsense, chances are that politician has a R next to their name.

      When it comes to Democrats vs. Republicans it’s a bit like you’re standing on a street corner somewhere and a guy runs up and starts stabbing you repeatedly. There’s another guy standing across the street watching you get stabbed but he’s too scared to get involved and do something about it.

      Given those choices, why would I ever support the guy doing the stabbing?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Also, one question…along the lines of Rikers comment of “Personally, I would rather be able to put food on my table with my boyfriend, than a husband to starve with.”

      ______________________

      Just curious, the GOP had complete control of Congress from I believe 1995 to 2006 Including 8 years of a GOP presidency. So the economy begins to waver at the end of 2006, and goes into full freefall soon after.

      I’m just surprised that the party that sent our economy into a tailspin seems to be a party that you think is going to keep you from starving.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kayla
      kayla

      @Riker: The desire to be treated equally under the law, is selfishness? Wow, either your self-hatred knows no bounds or MLKjr. and all those kids being hosed and bitten by rabid dogs in those grainy black and white videos, were a bunch of selfish bastards!! How dare they want to be treated like other citizens, how dare they!! Oh… also Ghandi was also one selfish, Indian bastard…and Mandela too…and the Suffragettes…and…and..everybody…

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe
      Joe

      @Daez: Sorry, I don’t have any children. So that “for the kids” argument wont persuade me!

      You are a self-loathing gay.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 12:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Cam: Actually, there was very little campaigning on gay issues this election. I think you are thinking about 2004.

      Yes, because one state has a law saying two men can’t enter into a home purchase together should be the focus. There should be no focus on the fact that millions of Americans are losing their homes and many more are holding onto them by a thread. That isn’t important because when two men buy a home the deed can only go in one of their names.

      I totally agree with you not being able to get behind the Republicans on a personal level. I just don’t think the Democrats have done such a stellar vote lately. I also feel that demanding that anyone vote a certain way just because of who you feel they should be is sad and ignores the freedom of choice that supports democratic republics.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 12:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @kokobean: Yes, because gay people don’t pay taxes. Oh, and gay people have lots of dependents that get them all kinds of tax breaks.

      Gay people in general end up paying more taxes than straight couples, but yet cutting that amount matters more to straights? Hmm, what?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 12:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Daez:

      Yes, but you also left out the fact that, just because I only mentioned VA. doesn’t mean it’s the only state that discriminates. There are multiple states where it is legal to fire people for being gay, additionally, the anti-gay rheotric has ramped up during and after the last election.

      As for people losing their homes, I point out again, that the economy started to crash after a decaded of GOP control of congress as well as Bush being in the White House, the Dems had not even gotten their key’s recut for the Congressional doors and Bush was still in office. So trying to act like GOP good, DEM bad as far as this economy goes is silly.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 12:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Americans=Rightwingers (John From England): Actually, I don’t want to bring them back. I favor an actual separation of powers, so I like having a Democratic President and a Republican Congress.

      Also, it was actually not the Republicans that got us into this mess. The last 2 years of this mess (when things really got bad) we had a Congress that was controlled by Democrats. They are what really helped to get us into this mess.

      Not to mention, Democrats have a much larger legacy of supporting Fanie Mae and Freddie Mac (which got us into this mess) and NAFTA (where this whole mess really started) was passed under Clinton.

      If you go back to every single time that the economy has been truly successful in this country, in my life time, it has been under Republican controlled leadership.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 12:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Ronbo: Oh, so I don’t have to agree with you I just have to shut up if I don’t?

      Does it really offend you when you aren’t the one in control? Are you used to always getting your own way? Do you really fail so badly at launching a counter argument that you just want the other person arguing to shut up and take it?

      How the bloody hell do you ever expect to debate a real conservative troll if you can’t even handle me disagreeing with you?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jay Martin
      Jay Martin

      @Daez: “Fixing the economy”, “spending $800+ billion on a failed stimulus”

      Um, wait – who was it that got us into this mess in the first place? And who originally started this stimulus?

      @Daez: “mending Obamacare”, “forcing people to buy health insurance”

      So doing nothing to our failing healthcare system was such a great idea for the last 30 years – see where that policy got us. Increasing premiums, decreasing care, additional costs to pay for people who don’t have insurance, rich Insurance Companies and Pharmas, poorer middle class, pre-existing conditions. Yep, that’s a GREAT healthcare system.

      @Daez: “solving the budget crisis”

      Again, where did that come from? The last time there was a Democratic President there was a budget surplus.

      @Daez: “ending the conflict in Afghanistan”

      And let’s see, who started that war? Along with the utterly useless one in Iraq? While we’re on the subject, can you say massive addition to the budget deficit?

      @Daez: “(see people that make over $250,000) should be punished by higher taxes”

      You idiots have been pushing “trickle down economics” ever since Reagan. When will you FINALLY admit that it doesn’t work?

      @Daez: “(conveniently spaced out so that the last one turns 18 when the bitch turns 65)”

      Wow, angry much?

      @Daez: “Forgive me if I don’t want to see the whole world go to hell with nothing being done to change it while we all debate rather gays should be married or not.”

      And yet, the Republicans blocked ALL legislation regardless of what the topic was simply because they could. So what exactly have they done to stop “the whole world going to hell” from 2000 to the present? Not a whole damn lot.

      Come back when you have some real facts to support your idiotic theories.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones: I’m selfish because I want the government to work on fixing the economy so that people can eat (btw, I eat quite well so this isn’t about me) and work instead of focusing on gay issues as a PRIORITY!?!

      Mmmkay. I love that logic. DADT does directly affect me because it allows me to scoff as gays rush off to join a war for a country that still treats us like crap at the bottom of the barrel. DADT affects me because all the time that was spent on it could have been spent on DOMA repeal or ENDA. Neither one of those will even see the light day in the next two years. So, DADT, in my opinion was a waste of time that could have very easily been spent on other causes that mattered more.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Joe: Thank you Joe for not having children since you seem to feel that anyone that disagrees with you must hate themselves.

      Its probably a good thing you don’t have children. I can just see you getting all upset the second they say that you aren’t as special as you think you are just because you are gay.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Benjamin
      Benjamin

      As someone once said, a gay Republican makes as much sense as a chicken supporting Colonel Sanders. Every gay Republican I’ve ever known has had a screw or two loose, and were supremely selfish to boot.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Jay Martin:

      You need to get your facts straight. There was NO stimulus given under the DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED Congress. If you even want to make the argument that the stimulus started before Obama (which it didn’t) then you need to look at the fact that it still happened since 2006 (when Congress became owned by the Democrats). Actually, what you are referring to is a bail out that was completely repaid by the banks (with interest) and a later auto bail out (which was the handy work of GW) which has led the USA to own stock in two auto manufacturers. As far as I can see, the Obama stimulus has never been repaid and didn’t accomplish anything.

      Actually, fixing the rising cost of health care is easy. You DON’T PAY for the people that don’t have insurance. We have no responsibility at all to take care of those that don’t bother to take care of themselves. Plus, I said MENDING Obamacare. You just mentioned some good parts. It went nowhere near fully addressing any of those however.

      It doesn’t matter where it came from. It matters where it was going, and under a run away Democratic Congress that wanted to spend, spend, spend it was going out of control.

      That war was actually started by Obama. Bush started the war in Iraq. Obama is the one that sent the troops home from Iraq (which he said he would do) then deployed them Afghanistan (which was so far from his campaign promises he might as well have been Bush).

      I never said trickle down economics. I said, plain and simply, that if you work your ass off to get where you are (and many people that make over $250,000 have gotten there on their own) or if someone in your family has (every single (b)millionaire family has gotten there by having someone willing to work for it) then you shouldn’t be penalized with higher taxes as a result.

      Am I angry, that some welfare whore can spend her entire life sucking at the teats of the American welfare system while people like you bitch that people that actually work for a living don’t pay enough taxes? ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY!!!!!

      The Republicans blocked measures that would do more harm than good such as Obamacare. Forcing people to buy insurance is not exactly ethical, and apparently (according to the latest ruling) it isn’t legal either. Obama wanted to force this through no matter what. Do you honestly think he was willing to listen to Republican ideas? Then why the hell should they bother to waste their breath?

      Come back when you can get your facts straight. Simple facts such as who championed NAFTA (Bill Clinton) and who passed the Stimulus (and bail out which has been completely repaid) shouldn’t be fubared by someone demanding I have facts to back me up, now should they?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Benjamin: Yes, and you know every single gay Republican; therefore, every gay Republican must be evil because the ones you know are.

      Been awhile since I took philosophy courses, so I forget the name of that fallacy.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeE
      MikeE

      People, don’t forget, there ARE gay idiots as well as straight ones.

      Being gay does not automatically make you intelligent enough to see issues clearly and debate them with a clear head. The proof is in this entire thread, with people like Daez and Riker.

      Remember that half the population are BELOW the “average intelligence” line, so that would mean that half of gay people should also be below that line. Daez and Riker obviously fit comfortably below that line.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @MikeE: What!?!

      ——————–
      Being gay does not automatically make you intelligent enough to see issues clearly and debate them with a clear head.
      ———————

      How can you remotely even begin to use this argument when you view anyone that actually wants to debate you at all as stupid and ignorant. Seriously, you are the one not intelligent enough to see issues clearly and debate them. You simply follow behind the rest of the gay sheeple and tow their line.

      When someone, such as myself, comes along and actually questions your belief on your stance you write us off as below the average intelligence line because you simply can not come up with an actual counter argument.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jay Martin
      Jay Martin

      @Daez:

      It’s incredibly disingenuous to claim that the “Republican” parts of the stimulus were good and the rest were bad (that’s a typical Republican tactic). Both sides of the isle supported the legislation. There are good and bad parts of the stimulus for sure – but trying to claim only the good parts gets you no sympathy.

      So, in your perfect world, the lower-middle class and the poor would just die. Nice – I guess that pretty much sums up your character.

      It DOES absolutely matter where the deficit came from – if you put those that caused it originally to balloon so significantly back into power you’re doomed to repeat history.

      “That war was actually started by Obama.” How DELUSIONAL can one person be? The war in Afganistan started on October 7, 2001. I believe George Bush was President then, not Obama. And I believe Obama wasn’t even in Congress at the time, so there’s absolutely no way you can claim that he started that war. Facts not hyperbole.

      People making over 250K are the ones that inevitably claim that they need to keep more money to invest in America. Trickledown economics, plain and simple.

      You’re claiming that all people in need of aid are lazy people. You must be a terribly cynical person to believe this “conservative” drivel. Compassion apparently plays no part in your existence and I’m truly sorry for you on that count.

      Yeah, blocking ENDA, the original DADT, etc., really would have been harmful. “Do you honestly think he was willing to listen to Republican ideas?” Yes, and there’s quite a bit in the legislation that came from the Republican side (and a bunch that’s not in there because of Republican opposition). And yet they still didn’t vote for it – can you say obstructionist? Delay, delay, poison pill everything to death. It’s not that they don’t agree, it’s just the typical “we need to be seen as opposing anything rather than let the Democrats appear to have a victory” attitude of the Republicans. They are a well disciplined organization for sure – if Boehner says jump they all say “how high”. I certainly hope the Democrats take a lesson from them in the next session of Congress although the House doesn’t have the same ability to block as the Senate does.

      So, yes, real legitimate facts (not hyperbole) are needed to convince others, not spewing the typical Republican party line.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 1:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • reason
      reason

      @Daez: No the trouble started when the GOP started borrowing like mad men with unpaid wars and tax cuts over 4 trillion dollars. They also rushed to deregulate everything pulling out all the safe guards that could have prevented this crisis. Fannie and Freddie were merely cards in the deck. The GOP controlled the house in the 107th and the senate switched back and fourth. If the GWB administration avoided Iraq, didn’t pass the tax cuts, and increased government revenue to pay for Afghanistan we wouldn’t be in this situation. We would have low government debt and countries and companies all over the world would be fighting to invest in our country. In the GWB administrations rush to differentiate themselves from his father they failed to implement one of the many good things his father did such as pay-go.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jacknasty
      jacknasty

      @Riker – “As a gay Republican who worked on the campaign of one of those Congressional freshmen, I can confirm that gay Republicans are able to put aside their own selfishness for the good of the country”

      Right, because when gay people want equality it is simply their selfishness trying to distract from other more important problems. Yet we have all the time in the world to deal with lawsuits from Republican parents who don’t want their kids to be taught anything other than “creationism”. Despite the fact that America is falling behind in education rankings. Why can’t those fundamentalists put aside their selfishness?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @MikeE: Do you have any idea who I am? Do you know anything about me, except that I am gay and Republican? Do you know me personally, or are familiar with my work? Odds of that are fairly slim.

      Instead of actually discussing my ideas, you dismiss me as unintelligent. Last I checked, argumentum ad hominem is among the weakest of arguments. You fail to actually rebut anything I said, instead insulting me with no evidence to back it up.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Jay Martin:

      I never once said that the “Republican” parts of the stimulus were good. What I said was that the BAIL OUT was not the STIMULUS and that the BAIL OUT was already paid back with interest. One led to an increase in debt, the other actually made money for the US government (see interest).

      No, both sides of the aisle did not support the legislation. It was there original just say no stall tactic and Obama, Reid and Pelosi rammed it through.

      No, in my perfect world, people would find a way to care for themselves. If they were incapable of caring for themselves then they would be cared for by family members or by the government. If they were UNWILLING to care for themselves then, yes, death is an option. If that makes me an asshole and cold, then by all means I am.

      You seem to think that the poor and lower-middle class can’t take care of themselves. There are plenty of poor and lower-middle class people that do not hang off the government teat while still pumping out kids and picking up the latest technological gadgets.

      When the hell did I ever argue it doesn’t matter where the deficit came from!?! It came from the Democrats. This budget was balanced before the Democrats came into power in 2006 and started spending like crazy. You seem to forget that this country has been controlled by the Democrats for 4 years. GWB didn’t control the purse strings, that isn’t a position of the president, the Congress did (and they were Democrats).

      No, the war focus in 2001 was on Iraq. There was very little in the way of military activity in Afghanistan. If you want to get technical. GWB declared victory in that war, and since then there hasn’t actually been a war in Iraq either. No matter how you slice it, Obama is the one that deployed legions of troops into Afghanistan, not GWB.

      People that make over $250k a year do so because they are the ones that weren’t content being poor or lower-middle class so they got off their asses and did something about it. Now that they rose above it you want to take the money they made and give it to the people that did nothing to get off their asses. I never ever said trickle down economics. The rich has no responsibility to provide jobs or money to poor people unwilling to get off their asses and do for themselves.

      Most people in need of aid are in fact lazy people. Not all. There are people that are disabled. However, if you aren’t disabled and you are living on government welfare then you are doing so because you aren’t willing to work hard enough to get off of it. Also, if you are unable to feed yourself then the last thing you should be doing is having children. I’m all for forced sterilization for welfare mothers and adoption of welfare children.

      You have your facts so incredibly skewed its not even funny. You have yet to contradict any of my claims. Yet, I’m the one that needs more facts?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tricky
      Tricky

      Just so some of you Republicans know, I won’t put aside my own happiness and the happiness of my partner aside for a country that hates me. If me and my family can’t be apart of the American dream, even though I go to work every day and pay more than my fair share of taxes, then the hell with America. I have a back up plan to leave this country if it implodes. If I actually felt a part of this country, then I would feel differently. Until the day that American recognizes and accepts wholeheartedly my contributions and sacrifices to this country, then I really don’t care I refuse to put my gayness aside. Imagine telling some straight family that for the sake of the country, they have to put their sexuality aside. I swear, sometimes we are our own worst enemy. ie LCR’s

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @reason: I’m not going to argue that GWB didn’t have a great deal of influence in where this debt started. However, unless you plan on putting him back into office so he can fix it, the blame now rests on Obama who has had two years to fix the deficit and instead has done nothing but get Congress to spend more outrageously.

      If Obama had not passed the first stimulus, the health care bill or extended the military presence in Afghanistan (which much like Iraq will be even more messed up when we leave) then we might have had a chance to balance the budget without raising taxes (and bitching about tax cuts).

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Riker: Oh come on Riker, don’t expect anyone here to have an actual thought that isn’t handed to them by the Democrats and HRC (the very people they claim to hate). That is asking way to much.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Tricky: Don’t let the door split ya!

      Seriously, if you think its so much better somewhere else than go there. You won’t, because no matter what you are voting with your wallet every time you stay in this country because you know that it still pays its workers better than any other country in the world (and you don’t get 80% of your pay check taken so that teenage girl that didn’t bother to use a condom can have you pay for her child).

      Dec 16, 2010 at 2:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brutus
      Brutus

      @Riker: Ironically, I agree with you. And that’s why I don’t vote Republican. Because they’re just going to keep handing power over to corporations in the name of “private choice.”

      We were way better off with the New Deal.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kokobean
      kokobean

      Daez, Queer Supremacist and Riker….all you jolly and freefalling uncle toms out there. With all due respect, screw you.
      Read the fine print…I AM HUMAN AND I DESERVE ALL THE RIGHTS THAT THE NEXT PERSON HAS. You seat and bitch about your undergee tax breaks….how about this?..why shouldnt you get the same tax breaks the same way everyone else does. If you marry your partner why shouldnt you get all the benefits i will get if i marry my boyfriend? Why do you take joy in finding ways to sneak through the tax system, why wait till Facebook or Google pity you with more pay to solve your overtaxation problem? That is the moral question. Why do you want the government to make you feel like something other than normal. You are human, you are gay and you deserve just about all the positives that anyone else gets. Dont let self loathing and self defeat make you think otherwise. You deserve love, peace, marriage, freedom to pursue happy and serve, you deserve it all. Because it is your right. As an out and proud straight ally, I call your asses to order. We cannot win this fight for equality when the soldiers are not united.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 3:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • reason
      reason

      @Daez: What? There is not one respected economist that thinks we could have fixed the deficit or pulled ourselves out of this crisis in two years. If the recovery act was not past both liberal and conservative economist agree that the country would have likely headed into a depression. That would have killed government revenue putting us in risk of default and skyrocketing the deficit. How do you balance a budget in a recession? The government is taking in even less revenue then normal. Afghanistan is nothing like Iraq granted the terrorist that struck us were in power in Afghanistan and we are working to make sure they cant attack us again. Bush should have kept his eye on the ball and won that war.

      Also, it was Bush that passed the first stimulus and it was one of the few correct things he did financially.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 3:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Riker: So, you enjoy and endorse a party that wants the LGBT community to continue to be treated as second class citizens. One that wants us seen, obliquely, but not heard. A group that continually uses religious texts of one religion as why a secular nation should discriminate against people.

      You’re going to put food on the table with your boyfriend. Good luck with keeping much of anything……..

      What a troll! How much do you get paid to act like you’re really a gay man on these web sites?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @reason: Bush can’t pass anything. Its Congress that passed the first BAIL OUT which is currently completely repaid with interest. It is also Congress that passed the stimulus. The effects of the stimulus can be argued by economist till they are blue, but its kind of interesting that most economist are now claiming we were already coming out of the recession beginning in 2009 (before the stimulus was even passed). Besides, there current argument is that it could have been so much worse not that it got better, which invalidates the stimulus to begin with.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 3:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @gregger: Jeez Fing Christ! Seriously, not everyone that disagrees with you gets paid to post on this site. Where does such a silly notion even come from?

      Its like, oh, I can’t win an actual intellectual argument, so I will resort to calling these people that disagree with me idiots. However, I know deep down that they aren’t idiots they are just people that I can’t debate because I can’t win, so I’ll go in a bubble and pretend they get paid to post here.

      Your logic is beyond terrible.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @kokobean: Yes, I do deserve equality. I support marriage equality. I support DADT repeal.I support ENDA (even trans-inclusive ENDA, but I would still take it without that).

      I also deserve a government that can balance its own budget, and keep spending low so that they don’t have to tax more. I deserve a government that will protect individual freedoms and the First Amendment (not the Fairness Doctrine). I deserve extension of the Bush tax cuts (which are tax cuts for everybody, not just the rich, irregardless of what buzzwords are fashionable right now).

      I have never given money to or volunteered time for a candidate who campaigned on an anti-gay platform. There are lots of Republicans that are pro-gay. Progress within the Party is slow, but the tide is turning. The tide is turning because of people like me, who show that the gay vote is up for grabs if Republicans want it. There is virtually no support for the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2010, except from the very fringes of the party.

      I am working to change my Party from within. I am having success. I am a gay Republican.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Daez: actually Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were under Republican control from 1995 to 2007 as the majority in both the House and Senate were from the Republican Party. The White House was under control of Republitard party from 2001-2009.

      GM paid back only the SECOND BAIL OUT which was given to them under the Obama Administration. The INITIAL BAIL OUT (courtesy of GW Bush) has only recently been partially paid back in the form of preferred stock sales and may never be paid back in total. Fiat/Chrysler has paid back nothing.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brutus
      Brutus

      @Daez: “This budget was balanced before the Democrats came into power in 2006 and started spending like crazy.”

      Wrong. “In 2000, when President Clinton left office, the U.S. was in the black by $236 billion. At the time, number crunchers projected a surplus for at least 10 years. But just two years later, we were in the red by $158 billion. The aftermath of 9/11 effectively froze the nation’s economy. And President Bush enacted his first round of tax cuts. By 2004, the deficit had more than doubled, to nearly $413 billion.” Source: http://abcnews.go.com/WN/obama-budget-history-federal-budget-deficit/story?id=9721492

      “No, the war focus in 2001 was on Iraq.”

      Wrong. “On March 20, 2003, the United States initiated offensive military action against Iraq for the stated purpose of deposing Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein and preventing his use of suspected nuclear weapons (weapons of mass destruction.)” Source: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/diglib/lcwa/html/iraq/iraq-overview.html

      “There was very little in the way of military activity in Afghanistan.”

      Wrong. Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/08/afghanistantimeline.afghanistan

      “If you want to get technical. GWB declared victory in that war, and since then there hasn’t actually been a war in Iraq either.” If you want to get technical, neither of these were wars because Congress never declared. They’re just “military actions” begun at the whim of the President.

      “I’m all for forced sterilization for welfare mothers and adoption of welfare children.” Well, that’s unconstitutional, so you’ll have to push for an amendment.

      You really have NO idea what it actually means to be on government assistance, or what’s required. You can’t just decide one day, “oh hey, I think I’ll go live in the projects and get free food and money.” If that were really true, why aren’t you doing it? You should read this Pulitzer Prize winning book: http://www.amazon.com/MYTH-WELFARE-QUEEN-PRIZE-WINNING-JOURNALISTS/dp/0684840065.

      “People that make over $250k a year do so because they are the ones that weren’t content being poor or lower-middle class so they got off their asses and did something about it. Now that they rose above it you want to take the money they made and give it to the people that did nothing to get off their asses.”

      Some. As someone who makes over $250k a year, I can tell you that the vast majority of such people began from positions of relative privilege. Their parents made good money, so they could afford to be in a good school district, which gave them a significant advantage on getting into the better colleges, where they met more of their own kind, made contacts, and had a significant leg up on getting into business, finance, law, medicine, etc. There is NOT absolute freedom of upward mobility if you just “work hard enough” and pull yourself up by your bootstraps. I know that’s the parable of the American Dream, but it’s simply not true. Moreover, while the profit motive is a good thing, and markets are an excellent way to achieve efficient allocation, society is better off when there is not a HUGE disparity between the most wealthy and the poor base. We spent hundreds of years and shed a lot of blood digging ourselves out of that system. So putting ever-progressive tax rates on higher earnings to the effect that nobody makes more than, say, $25 or 50 MILLION a year, makes us all better off, just like we’re all better off when everyone is educated to at least a certain level because it means we can have more faith in the democratic process.

      And I say all of this as someone who is routinely shouted down on these threads for being “self-hating” and a traitor and a “radical conservative” and whatever other invective people felt like hurling. I’ve supported you in other threads, especially when you make the point that the political process takes time and we shouldn’t utterly condemn people just because they’re not doing everything in their power 24/7 to advance LGBT rights. So please just take a minute and reflect on all of this.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @gregger: None of the candidates I have worked for are antigay. I’ve told every one of them about my sexual orientation, and they have all been welcoming. It is easier to tell a Republican that i’m gay, than to tell a gay man that I’m a Republican.

      Except for election season (which we aren’t currently in) I do not get paid. I’m a regular reader of Queerty. My current job is in a deli, so I’m not rich, either.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Javier V.
      Javier V.

      First off. DAEZ IS A TROLL. It’s been said for the last month by atleast a dozen posters. How many of you are either not getting it, or are engaging him just to stir the pot (which is what he wants)
      Secondly, a gay republican is pretty much a souless, sell out who doesn’t really care all that much about their integrity. Period. Spin it as you wish.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoeSplend
      JoeSplend

      Incredible. How can people like Daez take themselves seriously?

      Simply repeating Republican talking points and revising history (the Democrats created the deficit!) doesn’t really convince anyone.

      One thing is certain. This is one angry, angry man.

      And yes, Daez. It does make you cold–and as you said–an asshole. But we ALL knew that already.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @kokobean: Way to misrepresent my opinions, breeder. You’re right. I don’t support gay equality. I think gays should get special treatment for all the shit we’ve had to put up from you “people” for 2,000 years. Thanks for calling yourself an “ally,” which apparently to you means voting for socialist-corporatist pirates who send platitudes our way.

      I believe homosexuality is inherently superior to heterosexuality, and that we are necessary in nature as a bulwark against overpopulation. However, in-vitro fertilization has proven that you don’t need a heterosexual sex act to make babies, and hopefully science will make it possible for two men or two women to make a baby without a surrogate, and that heterosexuality will be outbred from the human race forever. It’s a pipe dream right now, but sometimes dreams come true.

      I support marriage rights for gays, and ONLY for gays. I believe heterosexuals should get nothing as punishment for the oppression of gays.

      I believe we should be allowed in the military. As The Mighty John Waters recently said in his touring Christmas show, “You can’t win a war without lesbians.” And I want gay soldiers out there killing terrorists with extreme prejudice. I want to live to see the first openly gay five-star general plan a nuclear attack on a homophobic dictatorship. I’ll begrudge the breeders admission because we need strength in numbers.

      I support everybody of every social class paying the exact same income tax rate: nothing. Sales taxes are far more equitable, because everyone who purchases a product pays their fair share, and the only way to evade sales taxes is not to buy stuff. And government spending must be cut to be less than revenues, and all surpluses should go to paying off the national debt.

      I think government social problems have done more harm than good to those they were intended to help, and they should be phased out, with the responsibility of helping those in need being put back in the hands of the people, where it belongs.

      I support total freedom of speech and religion, but I hold Christianity and Islam responsible for about 95% of the homophobia in the world today. I believe Western secular values are what made this country great, and that they must be defended against cultural relativism. Western secular values are the best defense against racial and religious prejudice, economic oppression by the state, and homophobia.

      I do not take shit from state-worshipping gays misrepresenting my beliefs, and I’ll be goddamned if I’m going to take it from a haterosexual “ally”. Underneath every so-called “liberal” is a fascist waiting to pop out.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Riker: I don’t think you can take a non-transgendered inclusive ENDA. Lets not throw people under the bus. While I don’t feel that transgendered people are part of the gay “community” I still respect their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

      Also, you say that you deserve to be treated equal, yet you support a group that as a whole does not express that view. Rather you have supported an anti-gay platform or not does not matter when you know that the person you put into office will support fellow Republicans that are anti-gay.

      I have voted for one Republican in my whole life. It was for the position of county prosecutor, and the out going Democrat was the one that bundled the Anthony Harris (Google it) case and showed her card as a racist bitch by doing so, and it doesn’t help any that she had a horrible conviction rate and plead out way to many major offenses.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Javier V.: I have agreed countless numbers of times that I am a troll, every single time I’ve been called a troll actually.

      Seriously, I just love to argue and get people to think. I can’t claim that every single thing I said was just to troll. Some of it is issues I need to examine within myself.

      Hell, come to think of it, I should probably examine why I’m so addicted to trolling Queerty. Other than it being fun, I can’t think of a reason.

      Perhaps I truly am a self-loathing homosexual that just needs to argue with other gays to promote my Jesus loving heterosexuality craving self. Oh wait, that can’t be the case, because I am addicted to being in the arms of my man, so I must enjoy being gay.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JoeSplend
      JoeSplend

      Daez says our transgendered brothers and sisters are not part of our community.

      I didn’t realize we got to vote.

      Any takers for keeping the transgenders and ejecting Daez?

      Anyone second the motion?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brutus
      Brutus

      @Javier V.: Why do you write someone off just because he happens to be a Republican? How does that get us anywhere? And if he’s a troll, he’s a very good one.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveAtlanta
      SteveAtlanta

      @Javier V.: THANK YOU!

      *Daez is a troll*

      *DAEZ IS A TROLL*

      *DAEZ IS A TROLL!*

      How many times do we need to highlight and expose the village idiot for who/what he is….we’re trying to save you all valuable time and chalk to not dignify this wack jobs ignorant rants with a response.

      He has repeatedly mentioned:

      - He does not believe in gay adoption.

      - Feels gay parents are an extreme harm to children.

      - He said high schoolers should not be exposed to Harvey Milk because Milk was a radical “congressmen” on a gay agenda, and who he has sex with is not relevant for kids to learn about in school.

      - He feels gay individuals should be kicked out of businesses, denied access to services, fired from their jobs because it just is, and we should patronize places that are gay friendly.

      - He has repeatedly defended the rights of these businesses/instituitions denying gay individuals based strictly on their sexuality.

      - He has said gay individuals have done more offensive harm to religion than religion has done for the gay cause.

      - He has said DADT is not a significant fight.

      - Has has said the term “gay community” is bogus and is a self serving agenda.

      On top of mentioning Christ in virtually every post.

      THAT’S who you’re having an argument with. I know, moment of clarity. I had one too after one single exchange with the troll.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @JoeSplend: Sorry, would it make any difference to tell you that I belong to a family of people that used to be poor and then worked their way up?

      I have absolutely no problem with people using welfare to support themselves while they are working hard to find a job or to get ahead, but I’ve seen way to many people that are totally content abusing the system. I don’t feel sympathy at all for those people.

      Oh, and I don’t take myself seriously. The person you meet in real life is much different than my internet persona. Daez is kind of a characture that exists to piss everyone off.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Riker: The Party as a whole has been staunchly anti-LGBT. The party has and continues to villainize the LGBT community as wanting “special rights.” The senior party members have repeatedly used the phrases “ungodly”, “heathens”, and “perverts” when referring to members of the LGBT community. All the while shielding self-loathing fags and dykes (see Ken Mehlman and Mary Cheney) who are helping them achieve their aims. Individuals might hold different views but when it comes down to it the Republican Party is still a Homophobic/Transphobic/Biphobic/Xenophobic/Islamophobic/Atheist-phobic/Misogynistic old white man’s club. (BTW, I’m a 48 y.o. white man whose family has been here since 1623).

      Gay Republican make about as much sense as Jewish Nazis, Black KKK members, and Misogynistic Women (like Sarah Palin).

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @Daez: You don’t seem to be the real Daez. However, i’ll respond anyway.

      Trans-inclusive ENDA is something that I would definitely prefer. However, it isn’t going to be passed now, realistically. I would rather have some rights now, and then use those to push for inclusion for our Trans friends. Once people see that ENDA for LGB people isn’t going to make the sky fall, they’ll be more willing to extend it. Exclusive ENDA is a foot in the door.

      As a whole, no party expresses the view that we are fully equal. Democrats give lip service to equality, but they don’t actually do anything about it. They would rather say “We were SO CLOSE! Giv e us money now so we can give you equality next year” perpetually, than actually give us our rights.

      The Republican party is becoming less and less antigay. There will always be certain elements in it, but they are losing influence. The Christian fundamentalists that reigned from 2000-2008 have taken a back seat to the Tea Partiers. The new bunch aren’t exactly pro-gay, but they are less antigay. It isn’t perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. We need to accept that Republicans aren’t going anywhere, and try to influence the party in the right direction.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @JoeSplend: I gladly eject myself from the LGBTQ community myth. I support the rights of transgendered people, but I don’t believe in the community myth to begin with, so how can they be part of the “community.”

      If we are truly a “community” than please explain the back biting, the condemnation of anyone not pulling the white, muscle bound jock, queen persona that is espoused on this site on a daily basis.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Brutus: I’m not Republican. I’ve voted Democrat for 13 years now. I voted for Kerry FFS. However, thank you for the comment on being a very good troll.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michelle
      Michelle

      Daez your tactic is clear as day. The classic divide and conquer. Throw a wedge at EVERY gay issue, to split minds, create lack of cohesion and ultimately….STALL PROGRESS.

      You throw the disclaimer out there “but I’m a realist” no dear, we all see right through your calculating ways. When it comes to gay progress, no way is the right way for you because YOU DON’T WANT TO SEE IT MADE. That is the bottom line sweets. We see it, called you out on it, and now you dance around it with mumbo jumbo logistics.

      When any gay effort is made you take one of two approaches:

      A.) Be critical of it.
      “This is not how you win friends.”
      “Why must we always force being gay on others?”
      “Why is this orginization being so pushy?”
      “Activists are all hurting ‘our’ cause.”
      “This guy is just seeking attention. His intentions are not good.”

      OR the sly

      B.) We’ve got too much to worry about right now, we’ll get to gay rights in time, now is not it.

      This is classic anti gay rights dance choreography created by calculating folks like you who are part of the problem NOT the solution, and you know it. What you’ve fooled yourself into believing is that we don’t see you for what you are. We see your intentions. We see how poloarizing your opinions on every single gay matter is. You can hide behind your “Just because I don’t agree with every gay issue, and have my own opinion” till Betsey the cow and her pimp come home. We’ve all had this line dance with folks like you.

      You will stop at nothing to see the elevation of gay ANY right be stalled and will use *any* stretch of an argument, be it legal (first amendment rants), emotional (“stop picking on the bullies, they have a right to throw you out of that diner, they are old, look at their poor old faces. let them be” rants) or indifference (“we have bigger issues to worry about than the fact that gay people are inherently second class citizens of a nation that prides itself on being a free country” rants)

      You’ve been exposed. MAN UP and own up to it. It is what it is. No worries.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @Daez:

      I’m selfish because I want the government to work on fixing the economy so that people can eat

      Americans are eating, DAEZ. Even America’s poor are overweight.

      (btw, I eat quite well so this isn’t about me)

      Yes it is. You want to eat more than other American’s. And you want the government–the government you chastise for being unwieldy in it’s spending–to support your extra bit of eating by having people who make less than 250k per year, pay the lion’s share of taxes.

      and work instead of focusing on gay issues as a PRIORITY!?!

      If the government focused on gay issues as a priority, we would have full equality, DAEZ. if the government spent a/10 the time passing queer inclusive legislation as they do debating tax cuts for you, we wouldn’t be having this debate now.

      DADT does directly affect me because…

      Much snipage to remove the self aggrandizing diatribe that most homocons are guilty of.

      Spoken like a true homocon pussy. Soldiers–including gay soldiers–are doing what is neccessary so you can enjoy the luxury of being an American.

      The fact that you place a hierarchy on queer equality demonstrates your ingrained sense of self-importance, DAEZ.

      While you’re sitting here popping off about MY TAXES ARE TOO HIGHHHHHH gay soldiers are getting shot at.

      Your problems are so infinitesimal, that debating them is tantamount to complaining about a mouse fart.

      And if you work so hard, DAEZ, why are you sitting here all day posting replies?

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @Daez:

      I’m selfish because I want the government to work on fixing the economy so that people can eat

      Americans are eating, DAEZ. Even America’s poor are overweight.

      (btw, I eat quite well so this isn’t about me)

      Yes it is. You want to eat more than other American’s. And you want the government–the government you chastise for being unwieldy in it’s spending–to support your extra bit of eating by having people who make less than 250k per year, pay the lion’s share of taxes.

      and work instead of focusing on gay issues as a PRIORITY!?!

      If the government focused on gay issues as a priority, we would have full equality, DAEZ. if the government spent a/10 the time passing queer inclusive legislation as they do debating tax cuts for you, we wouldn’t be having this debate now.

      DADT does directly affect me because…

      Much snipage to remove the self aggrandizing diatribe that most homocons are guilty of.

      Spoken like a true homocon coward. Soldiers–including gay soldiers–are doing what is neccessary so you can enjoy the luxury of being an American.

      The fact that you place a hierarchy on queer equality demonstrates your ingrained sense of self-importance, DAEZ.

      While you’re sitting here popping off about MY TAXES ARE TOO HIGHHHHHH gay soldiers are getting shot at.

      Your problems are so infinitesimal, that debating them is tantamount to complaining about a mouse fart.

      And if you work so hard, DAEZ, why are you sitting here all day posting replies

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Ok, I’ll admit that I am engaging in pure hyperbole here, but I’m taking this out to it’s absurd comparison.

      There is a party where some of the state planks still specificlly denigrate gays, and while there are members of the party that are not anti-gay on the whole the party has used gay rights and attacks on gays to drum up votes. Whatever my feelings about what the Dems are doing, I can’t bring myself to support a party that is actively attacking me.

      Frankly I don’t want to feel like a Jewish guy in 1937 in Germany saying “Well yeah, technically they don’t seem to like us, but they are getting the trains to run on time and unemployement is doing better.”

      Once our rights are set in stone, I can look more closely at varying votes, but until then, I can’t support a party that has my second class status as one of it’s goals.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @SteveAtlanta: Dude, you don’t need to tell people what deep down they already know. I have admitted to it on countless occasions. Its us trolls that keep the forums alive and well. On days I don’t post they seem pretty damn dead. Hell, how many times have I provided you with an outlet for your grief. Beating up on me by calling me a troll obviously makes you feel better about yourself or you wouldn’t be obsessed with doing it.

      I have repeatedly mentioned that I believe that gay adoption could harm the child. Which is actually a bull shit argument on my part. I’m not exactly proud of my stance on gay adoption. Its something I need to work on changing. Especially since I know some amazing gay parents and some amazing children of gay parents personally. Its just a view I was raised with that I need to abandon.

      FFS, I never said that gay parents are an extreme harm to children. What I have said is I believe that the jury is still out on rather there is harm caused to children by being raised by gay parents. You have really ran away with this one. I don’t understand how raising a child with no female influence is good for them. I’m more supportive of gay parents raising children when there is a female role model present (BFF, grandparent, what have you).

      I think its obvious by this point that I have no clue who the hell Harvey Milk actually was. However, I come from a small town where, as I have said, the teachers twisted black history enough that I’m not sure I want teachers in small town, back woods, conservative parts of California teach about gay history. I can just see it now. “Today kids we will learn about Harvey Milk. He was some faggot that thought faggots should be superior to all of us good decent Christians!” There, that pretty much sums up what will happen in many school districts when you force them to teach gay history. Much like happened every February in my school district (which had maybe two black students) and the teachers tried to teach in February. It was quite obvious the true stance most of my teachers took on “equality.”

      Oh, and I never said they shouldn’t be exposed to it. What I said is that they shouldn’t be FORCED to listen to it. I’m all for school districts developing a parent approved curriculum that includes gay historical figures.

      When the bloody hell did I ever say that gay people should be fired and refused service. What I have said is that you can NOT force companies to accept gays, and trying is futile. I have said countless numbers of times that I would much rather have a company tell me to my face that they hate me then to be forced into hiring/serving me and then treating me like shit because they hate me.

      You are right, I have defended the rights of a private business to cater to the clientele that it chooses to cater to. I would be just as supportive if a gay establishment wanted to bar straight people. Hell, I’m supportive of gay business that don’t want to welcome women into the fold. If some woman sued a gay business on the basis of gender discrimination I would support the gay business and its right to cater to whomever it wants.

      When the bloody hell did I say that gay individuals have harmed religion? I said that its not religion that has done harm to the cause. Not all religion is bad, and that you need to stop declaring war on religion because its a war that we can not and will not win. Religion is a tool. Its a tool that we should take ownership of and elicit change with. Its a very effective tool for controlling the populous. Why the bloody hell do you let it be controlled by the Pope and Fred Phelps when you could use it for change?

      I also never said that DADT was not a significant fight. I said that it was curious to me why we are currently focusing on fighting for the right to fight for a country that doesn’t focus on us. There are more effective ways to spend our time and the last two years (which were the years with the most potential for gay causes). I’m all for DADT being repealed. I just think that DOMA and ENDA were more significant for the vast majority of gay Americans.

      I have said that the gay community is a myth because it is. Every single time another muscle bound jock insults a fey its proof of this myth. Every single time a top insults a bottom its proof of this myth. Every single time someone else is willing to throw the transgendered people under the buss its proof of this myth.

      I don’t mention Christ in every post, but I also don’t have an obsession with the hatred of religion, so I willingly talk about it.

      Dude, you really need to check yourself because you have turned me into a straw man and twisted my words so much that you don’t even know what I said. You seem to be fighting with yourself at this point, because you sure the hell are not fighting with me since you seem to have no freaking clue what I even said in everything you just mentioned.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • FreshFit
      FreshFit

      Daez wrote:

      “Daez is kind of a characture that exists to piss everyone off.”

      But it’s not actually really pissing anyone off though. That’s the thing. For the most part, I see people ganging up on you, to poke fun at your ramblings. I’ve never once seen a poster express being upset by anything you wrote or taking it to heart, I just see them make fun of your writing.

      Also worth mentioning, you’re on this site round the clock, 24/7, and respond to every single comment on every single thread. Most who call you out do so in threads and move on, but you are literally camped out on this site. You can be as light hearted as you want about it, but if you are even half the picture of what I painted you to be (which I think you are) I really think you’re a pretty disturbed individual. I don’t mean that as an insult. I can just tell you’re on the brink of a major, major mental break down. I’ve actually emailed someone from Queerty about it and can confirm they have their eyes on your posts.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @Daez:

      If we are truly a “community” than please explain the back biting, the condemnation of anyone not pulling the white, muscle bound jock, queen persona that is espoused on this site on a daily basis.

      Ah! And there it is. A glimpse, a sneaky peak into DAEZ’s psyche.

      Some where along the line,some mean queen made DAEZ feel bad about himself. His revenge–denounce the pursuit of queer equality.

      What a sad, bitter, horny little man it must be.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @Riker:

      The new bunch aren’t exactly pro-gay, but they are less antigay. It isn’t perfect, but it is a step in the right direction. We need to accept that Republicans aren’t going anywhere, and try to influence the party in the right direction.

      Riker, please give us an example of what the Republican party as a whole has done to advance queer equality in America.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 4:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @Daez:

      I have said that the gay community is a myth because it is. Every single time another muscle bound jock insults a fey its proof of this myth. Every single time a top insults a bottom its proof of this myth.

      Whoa. We’re really getting a deep look inside DAEZ. Nelly bottom gets insulted, and rather than take his battle to the one who hurt him, he denounces the queer community as a whole.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kyle M
      Kyle M

      @SteveAtlanta: Are you kidding? Dude, people like Daez unite healthy minded gay peeps better than you can imagine. It’s the Fred Phelps syndrome. If it weren’t for the wack a doos, we wouldn’t come together as one united front. People like him are doing such a service for our community, literally building it up brick by brick. They don’t grasp that their ignorance is bringing gays who would normally be indifferent out from the woodwork, to speak, fight and come together as one voice. Just look at the comments sections on here. Sure Daez makes his blubbering idiotic posts that no one ever agrees with and he himself admitedly doesn’t take seriously, but on the other end, you ahve some of the most well thought out, articulate, sensible, rational PRO GAY arguments to his face (that I’ve been known to copy/paste for future refrence myself) and they would not be spawned without the Fred Phelps effect. It does wonders for bringing us together. I’ve actually emailed someone who responded to one of Daez’s posts (due to their blog being linked on their response) and we’ve spearheaded a pretty great potential friendship. The crazies are such outliers, that they bring the normal folks together in a magnetic intervention of sorts.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kyle M
      Kyle M

      @Michelle:
      MICHELLE FOR THE WIN! Daez OWNED. LOL!
      Nailed it. We’ve seen his kind before, and know the foolish divide and conquer strategy.But damn did you nail it.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Riker: I am the real Daez. Well as real as Daez can be. Daez is a devils advocate persona. He would tell you the sky is green if you said it was blue. He exists only to argue and to make people think about their arguments.

      Did you not study history at all? Its those transgendered people that started the gay rights movement and they have been fighting along side us ever since. Have you never heard of the Stonewall Riots? ENDA absolutely will be passed eventually with the transgendered people included in it. Throwing them under the buss after all they have done for the cause is like slapping your grandmother because you disagree with her being old.

      God, I hope so much that DADT passes so you can actually see what Democrats do daily for the cause, oh and Democrats have been advocating tirelessly across this country to get gay friendly inclusion. Every single state that has gay marriage and gay civil unions has Democrats to thank. Every single state that has an amendment to the Constitution outlawing gay marriage can blame the Republicans. Apparently, you paid no attention to Ohio in 2004 when they used an anti-gay marriage amendment to force more Republicans to come out and vote so that Bush would win.

      Listen to yourself dude. “The Republican party (which you claim to be a proud member of) is becoming less and less antigay.” SERIOUSLY! You just admitted you are a member of an antigay party. Either you are antigay or you aren’t. There are no degrees of being antigay. Its like saying, “I’m antigay but because I don’t want to see gays dragged off to concentration camps its ok, but don’t expect me to treat them like humans anytime soon!” SERIOUSLY!

      Oh nice, the Tea Party isn’t as anti-gay. Seriously, dude, you proudly claim to be a member of the Republican party and then claim its only a little anti-gay so its ok. So, the Republican party has shifted control from the religious right that wants to see us burn in hell to the Tea Party that is content to just see us suffer on earth and this is somehow rationally alright with you to sign up and be part of. Jesus, I thought I had issues (and according to everyone here I do).

      I’m all for change from within and working together, but its not working together when you campaign to get someone that believes in your causes out of office so you can get someone that doesn’t elected. Even if you make the claim that Democrats do nothing, in this case this was a Democrat that was directly behind spear heading DADT. He made it his cause, despite being straight. He could have championed many other causes, but he didn’t. He most likely sacrificed his own political career for us, and your response goes along the lines of “so what, big deal, I’d rather elect the person that hates me than the person that fights for me.”

      Damn, dude you sound so much like me, but I’m just trolling when I say shit like this.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @FreshFit: Actually, I don’t post in the evenings, so your around the clock 24/7 claim is moot. I actually have way to much time on my hands during the day time. Chalk it up to me not currently having a job. I’ve had over 5 interviews in the last five weeks, but times are a tad tough.

      My nights and weekends are not even remotely spent on this site. I wouldn’t be surprised if Queerty does keep an eye on my posts. So far they haven’t blocked me because deep down they know I keep people posting on this board and I haven’t actually abused any of their rules so they have no grounds.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones: I’m not exactly horny. I get plenty of sex. Sad and bitter. Probably. However, it wasn’t because some queen pissed me off. Its got more to do with trying to conform to the norm that was small town America and being gay at the same time.

      Do I have issues? Hell yeah! However, at least I freely admit to that.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones: Your insulting does so much to help the cause. Seriously, you claim we have this community then you insult bottoms. Seriously!?!

      Also, I actually have had almost all positive relationships with gay folks in real life. The ones that haven’t, I’m the one that wrote them off not the other way around.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • FreshFit
      FreshFit

      @Kyle M: I’ll be honest, I never thought about it like that. very interesting and very valid. ignorance is the best testimony for uniting brilliance, for with out it, there would be not distinction between wise and ignorance. you’re absolutely right, Daez is helping us join forces and be under one umbrella without even realizing it.

      I will say though, having had a former ex who was bipolar, I can pretty much tell you Daez’s rants are the spitting image of emails my ex would leave. he even once told me he enjoys being a trouble maker but wants to be taken seriously. if anyone here has any connections to bipolar disorder you’d see what is happening here. i’ve lived it with that previous temultuous relationship and have diagnosed it in 2 people I’ve interacted with since, and it makes me sad when people suffer from something they can easily get treatment to control, but don’t realize what internal conflicts they are struggling with that makes for unpredictable behavior, and usually lack of common sense/empathy, coupled with, well…..rants to be heard.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Kyle M: That is awesome Kyle M. It truly is. I’m not sure I like the comparison to Fred Phelps, but it is nice to know that I do accomplish part of what I set out to do. Now, get out there and kick some ass in the name of gay people everywhere. I would like to actually get married at some point in my lifetime, and we need to fight for that cause.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @Daez:

      I get plenty of sex.

      And I bet foreplay involves trying to decide between your left, or right hand.

      Its got more to do with trying to conform to the norm that was small town America and being gay at the same time.

      Yes, so you take it out on the queer community that for all it’s ills, has worked to make America a place of equality. That makes perfect sense.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @DAEZ

      Your insulting does so much to help the cause.

      You’ve set the standard, DAEZ, I’m merely following suit.

      you insult bottoms

      Please show me where I insulted bottoms.

      The ones that haven’t, I’m the one that wrote them off not the other way around.

      Riiiiiight.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @FreshFit: Not only do I realize it, but I intend for it. Hell, if you actually read all of what I’ve written you would see I say that at least once a day.

      I actually am bipolar, but rest assured you don’t need to be sad because I actually am seeking help for it. I don’t know how you can grow up in a small town in BFE Ohio as a gay male and not come out of it at least a little fucked up.

      I have an amazing boyfriend and amazing friends who are a major support system for me. I’m in counseling, and I will be starting drug therapy as soon as I get my psychiatric examination.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones:

      Nah, I’m right handed, so its always the right hand. I’m all for you insulting me. I’m not all for you insulting bottoms by calling them “nelly” and assuming that I must be one. It seems you have a problem with bottoms. I’m sure you don’t mind fucking them though.

      I get the queer community to actually think about their approach and to work harder to combat people such as myself. I think you missed the post by Kyle M about my being messed up but actually helping him to unite with others that also believe I’m messed up.

      In real life, I actually am out and open and help with so many causes that they can’t help but to focus on the fact that gay people are people to because I’m so giving. Here, I just like to be the devils advocate.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @Daez: Daez, I’m not in anyway the first person to comment about you, or a few other people, with the admitted Republican Party tactic of trolling websites for pay. Your argument still is lame and after reading your 5:28 pm posting I’m not responding to anything else from you. Have a hopefully good life.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      @DAEZ

      Nah, I’m right handed, so its always the right hand.

      Oh, I’m sure you mixit up every now and then. Maybe on your birthday.

      I’m not all for you insulting bottoms by calling them “nelly”

      What issue do you have with nelly gays? Is that worse than calling them “fey”?

      and assuming that I must be one.

      It was a presumption.

      It seems you have a problem with bottoms.

      Yes I do. There are so many bottoms, and I only have one penis.

      I’m sure you don’t mind fucking them though.

      Only if they don’t mind letting me.

      I get the queer community to actually think about their approach and to work harder to combat people such as myself.

      No. You get the queer community to facepalm.

      I think you missed the post by Kyle M about my being messed up but actually helping him to unite with others that also believe I’m
      messed up.

      Get down off the cross, we need the lumber

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      Nah, I’m right handed, so its always the right hand.

      Oh, I’m sure you mixit up every now and then. Maybe on your birthday.

      I’m not all for you insulting bottoms by calling them “nelly”

      What issue do you have with nelly gays? Is that worse than calling them “fey”?

      and assuming that I must be one.

      It was a presumption.

      It seems you have a problem with bottoms.

      Yes I do. There are so many bottoms, and I only have one dick.

      I’m sure you don’t mind fucking them though.

      Only if they don’t mind letting me.

      I get the queer community to actually think about their approach and to work harder to combat people such as myself.

      No. You get the queer community to facepalm.

      I think you missed the post by Kyle M about my being messed up but actually helping him to unite with others that also believe I’m
      messed up.

      Get down off the cross, we need the lumber

      Dec 16, 2010 at 5:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daez
      Daez

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones: So many bottoms that won’t let you near them. You don’t even need the one dick. :P

      My cross is made of plastic not wood!

      Dec 16, 2010 at 6:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kate
      Kate

      I’m a straight female who got linked to this website from this story on another blog it was featured on. If I may just share this side story, which I didn’t plan to but thought might interest some of you all. My roomie is also straight but really has no opinion on gay people or your rights one way or another. I sat him down an hour ago and asked him to read the exchange between daez and the others and than asked him what he thought. True story, he looked at me and said “sh8t I don’t wanna be on the side of that loon (Daez)” and quite honestly, daez represents the extremist. He is the poster child of anti gay extremist. They may insert their “but I have gay friends” but when you challenge them and disproven and combat their bigotry toe to toe, they are left with no choice but to go off the deep end. My friends all my life have been gay much to the displeasure of my very religious family who didn’t want them around. When I would challenge my family on views they were obviously regurgitating from extremist they had heard, they eventually started to not make any sense, go in circles, realize their arguments don’t hold up, and would then completely loose it and say the bat sh8t craziest things. Sound familiar? That’s symbolic of all those who are extremist. This encounter with my roomie was awesome. He saw that extremist start to finish first hand thanks to Daez and how they themselves have no clue what the heck they’re saying half the time, but the one thing you all have to realize with the socially conservative/religious/extremist…they love hysteria. They live for it. These past elections were living proof of that as was the crazy ass comments by Daez.
      Thank you Daez. If for nothing else, for having a profound effect on a straight dude who otherwise didn’t get it until he saw the difference between the two crowds.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brutus
      Brutus

      Both sides are being ridiculous.

      Daez has made false claims and clearly does not understand what it means to actually be on government support or what’s required to get it. I made a long post with sources debunking a lot of it, but it’s still awaiting moderation. (Annoying…)

      Meanwhile, on the other side, people say things like “he mentions Christ in every post,” as if that’s supposed to mean anything (look, I realize that a lot of opposition to gay rights stems from fundamentalist religious dogma, but you can’t let that make you prejudiced against ALL religion or religious people); or they’ll latch on to one statement and go all “ohh look! a peek into his true psyche!” and then trot out some tired old sexist line about a bitter bottom getting turned down. The image of the gay community IS a gym-toned, tan, tweezed, white man to a lot of people, and it’s a real problem we need to be working against, not perpetuating or tossing lightly aside. The amount of Democrat-bashing on this site is revolting, and Daez is right to point it out. As my girl Sinead once said, FIGHT THE REAL ENEMY. Just because someone has a different theory about how the political process works does not make them an “uncle tom” or a “paid Republican poster” or someone who is actively working AGAINST equality. I have little patience for people who say you can’t put equality in a hierarchy. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, and I’ll tell you what, if I had the choice between European-style health care for the entire country or marriage equality, I’d choose the former. And that does NOT make me any less of an advocate for gay rights. It does not get the priority it deserves, but you cannot say that there can be NO hierarchy.

      Most gays live in districts where the elected officials are already pro-gay. We need to do more outreach work and stop fighting among ourselves over who’s the fiercest advocate. So why doesn’t everyone quit patting themselves on the back and start getting people in the relevant states to call up their Senators re DADT.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 8:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @Brutus: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one, and I’ll tell you what, if I had the choice between European-style health care for the entire country or marriage equality, I’d choose the former.

      That tells me that you’re a Fascist that happens to fuck men. Your anti-individual argument is the same one that every authoritarian and totalitarian regime on earth has made to justify their actions. A government that discriminates against any of its citizens cannot be trusted to judge the needs of the many.

      Dec 16, 2010 at 11:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Look what’s happened: Daez and his sockpuppet[s] have derailed the conversation.

      How many times do we need to have a troll get us off topic before we: a) learn to ignore them –because all they seek is attention, not actual discussion and b) figure out who is working *for* us versus *against* us?

      It’s time for cooler and saner heads to prevail.

      Dec 17, 2010 at 12:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • whatever
      whatever

      Republicans are vile scum. Can’t we all agree on that???

      Dec 17, 2010 at 4:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DR
      DR

      @whatever:

      no.

      Dec 17, 2010 at 9:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tjr101
      tjr101

      @whatever: agreed!

      Dec 17, 2010 at 10:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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