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The Principal Who Canceled Rent Has a History of Not Caring About Gays

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HATE SCHOOL MUSICAL — Your harsh thoughts aimed at Corona del Mar High School’s principal Fal Asrani — who pulled the plug on the drama department’s Rent production because it was too gay and replaced it with You’re a Good Man, Charlie Brown — aren’t just warranted, but perhaps not harsh enough. The same school leader who doesn’t want students exposed to gay characters in a critically acclaimed musical appears to tolerate violence aimed at gays. When three senior guys uploaded a video to Facebook calling for the rape and murder of a lesbian classmate, all they got was a slap on the wrist.

A five-day suspension was all Asrani threw at the guys. Notes one-time Queerty contributor Ryan J. Davis:

The horrified parents of the girl quickly notified the school’s administration of the video and were deeply troubled at their response. The boys were suspended for five days. Earlier in the school year, these boys were suspended for two months for “streaking.” Apparently Asrani believes that seeing someone’s bare butt is vastly worse than threats of murder and rape. Go figure.

The parents of the girl who was threatened by these gents have sent this letter to Asrani about her canceling Rent:

…your administration has sent a clear message that threatening sexual violence is a minor offense punishable by 5 days of suspension (though “streaking” is punishable by two months of suspension); that “gay bashing” (as was depicted throughout the Facebook video) is also merely a minor infraction and one that the school will not acknowledge (and thereby tacitly endorses); and that any attempt by the school community to address these issues in a positive and thoughtful way–a way that would encourage dialogue and understanding (i.e. producing a play like RENT), will be soundly squashed. The gay students who daily brave CDMHS, along with the young women who endure all forms of sexual harassment while you look the other way, deserve more from their school’s administration.

By:           editor editor
On:           Feb 19, 2009
Tagged: , , , , , ,
  • 111 Comments
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      The face of homophobia is always ugly, no matter what the title of respect that is placed before the name of the homophobe.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cruiser
      cruiser

      What a tool that principal is. She will suspend for 2 month guys caught streaking, but by the same token these same cheese ball guys make a video that actually ENCOURAGES a criminal act like rape and they only get 5 DAYS?! What planet does this woman live on & in which century?

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Kinda name is fal asrani? Pakistani? I wonder what her religious beliefs are.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      HOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLD on, Charlie Brown… let’s not mix metaphors. Asrani is an Ass-Man for cancelling the preferred play, but school administrators should have NO authority whatsoever over any conduct off of school grounds.

      If the video consisted of terroristic threats (as it surely did), the criminal justice system and NOT the school system is the appropriate venue. The assertion that schools make of total dominion over their students’ expression on and off campus is a violation of students’ First Amendment rights and should never be tolerated, even when it’s assholes like those kids.

      That’s what civil court and criminal court are for, since the video in question is both a legal tort (intentional infliction of emotional distress, for one) and a crime (terroristic threats).

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cruiser
      cruiser

      @TANK: don’t ask because you probably DON”T want to know

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Ooops, I forgot to add that the legally false assertion that administrators can govern all off-campus activity and expression has also been used against gay students, who have been punished by public schools for expressing their own views against homophobic decisions like those made by Ass-Man… I mean Asrani.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      As horrible as this is, I agree with Brian, this particular circumstance should have been handled through the judicial system. That said, and it is pure conjecture on my part, I assume the parent(s) thought they would get just results from the school and “handle it amongst themselves”.

      How long ago did this happen?

      Irregardless of the legalities of this particular case, it is painting a pattern and personality of Asrani, albeit one that might make her more popular with the community whom employs her sadly.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      It’s not an either or. The judicial system AND the administration should have been involved–and the admin more actively in expelling this trash.

      And please don’t ever use the word ‘irregardless’ again. It does nothing for you [anyone].

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @tank – It is a new england thing I fear. And sorry, I will not be stopping.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 7:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      @TANK:

      Sorry as well, Tank. Irregardless is one of my favorite words just for its plain ridiculousness.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      But it’s not a New England thing. By all means, continue to use the word. Those that do don’t sound very educated ;).

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ali
      Ali

      There is a flip side to this: we’re hearing about this story, and all the principal’s homophobia, because the baby dyke who was threatened by her classmates has awesome, supportive parents who are willing to go to bat for their gay kid, not only against the school administration, but in the media as well.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Ali – good point, didn’t even think to acknowledge that.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      @TANK:

      It’s this funny lil thing called slang/informal English. Maybe you’ve heard of it?

      Somehow I avoided using it in my Master’s Thesis. There is a proper place for proper English. Correcting other’s on the internet is just catty.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      It is nonstandard English. Catty is defending a nonstandard word’s use. I wasn’t correcting anyone, and if you’d bothered to comprehend what I wrote, you’d not have wasted time defending sketchy literacy. It’s a double negative, and is considered the mark of unlearned people, like ‘conversate’ and ‘ain’t’. This was not ironic usage, either, which could be pardoned as its intent is to mock the use and users of such words. Regardless, I’d prefer not to discuss this absurdity any further, as it’s irrelevant to this post. I’m just taken aback…

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      Golly gee Beaver, gay elitism is alive and well!

      :p

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Ha ha! You can’t leave it alone. Instead, you choose to Palin out.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 8:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      I guess all those private schools and ivy league education failed me and I should just hang it up right now. IT IS A COMMENT ON A BLOG. Where might you have matriculated from Tank? It is good to keep in mind while making recommendations to others.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 9:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      It’s ok Sebee. Having someone that writes “Kinda name is fal asrani?” criticize someone’s language choice is “kinda” hypocritical, not to mention the post is mos def racist.

      Oh, and from the American Heritage Dictionary: The term nonstandard was introduced by linguists and lexicographers to describe usages and language varieties that had previously been labeled with terms such as vulgar and illiterate. Nonstandard is not simply a euphemism but reflects the empirical discovery that the varieties used by low-prestige groups have rich and systematic grammatical structures and that their stigmatization more often reflects a judgment about their speakers rather than any inherent deficiencies in logic or expressive power.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Indeed, Sebbe, money was wasted.

      Palining: to react with hostility by accusing others of elitism when one’s intellectual shortcomings are revealed.

      Palin out: to justify one’s educational shortcomings by lashing out at imagined ivory tower elitists.

      Oh so now I’m a racist for suggesting that it’s a Pakistani name is that Pakistan is not the most inclusive country? Perhaps I’d also be a “racist” (learn what the term means before you use it) if I were to suggest that Islam is not a gay friendly religion. You are both fools.

      If you are going to accuse people of racism, you had better be able to prove it, or else you’re just a pathetic reactionary tool that degrades the application of the term by ABUSING it.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 9:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      And the American Heritage dictionary is one of the most prescriptive dictionaries in circulation. When they label a term nonstandard, it means that it is not a proper word.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 9:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @tank – Yes you are a racist (or ignorant & clearly ethnocentric) for making stereotypical assumptions about an entire nation of people, of which, this woman and/or her ancestors do not come from.

      “just a pathetic reactionary tool” – seems to describe yourself pretty accurately.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      ha ha! You are a waste of life. I have made no such stereotypical assumptions. It happens to be true if you have any understanding of the region and the culture of Pakistan. You don’t (I repeat, you do not), so please…go away, you buzzing fool. I know many people from Pakistan who will tell you just how gay unfriendly its people and culture actually are. I think it’s reasonable to suggest that culture and religion play a large role in homophobic attitudes.

      Ethnocentric? I suppose it would be ethnocentric and racist of me to suggest that Sharia Law is inherently misogynistic. It’s hard to have a reasoned discussion over the screaming of idiots.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      I flagged two of your comments and hope that the editors will take note tomorrow. I am offended and do not believe that attacking and making assumptions about entire nations or religions falls under queerty’s comment policies.

      Some of us comment to express our opinions and engage in conversation with others in a constructive matter regarding the topic at hand. You seem to comment to critique choice of vocabulary instead of reading what others have to say.

      I must say that I hope you are not nearly as bitter and combative in real life. Not everything is a battle. I presume you are older than me, please enjoy some of your time left here.

      In regards to my knowledge of Pakistan, I have traveled to Pakistan and the region, albeit several years ago while on a business trip.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      That’s it. I am not going to take this from you. I am going to complain bitterly to the site managers. This is goddamn LIBELOUS of you. I hope you get permanently banned. How dare you.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      I would sue you in life if you suggested this from what I wrote. I would literally sue you.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      Please do and let me know if I need to supply the information for the firm I am currently employed at so you may have me served as well.

      Back to the topic at hand. Did everyone notice in Ryan Davis’s post the update according to one parent:

      “Apparently the Anti-Defamation League is now involved.”!!

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @TANK:

      With a name like that, you even need to ask? lol

      I’ll lay you odds that it’s Islam. But, I could be wrong.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @TANK:

      PS: I am an equal opportunity religion basher. lol

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Apparently it’s racist to suggest that a dead to rights homophobe is homophobic for a reason that may have to do with her possible cultural heritage and religious values. I don’t know if she’s pakistani or a muslim–a conjecture based on her name. Not completely unreasonable. Apparently that’s just ethnocentric and off limits to suggest that homophobia doesn’t occur in a vacuum, but has cultural and religious correlates and causes. I’d be looking for cultural and religious factors contributing to her homophobia if she were a southern baptist from Iowa.

      It’s bigoted to suggest that, say, a southern baptist is more likely than a unitarian universalist to be homophobic. I guess some delusional posters think that by closing their eyes to reality, that it will go away…

      And I’m probably your age. I regret my ageism (and I apologize for it)…something tells me from reading your ageist screeds on several comments sections that you haven’t even begun to address yours, sebbe. Just what we need.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      To whom it many concern.

      Some elucidation from Dictionary.com regarding irregardless:

      Probably blend of irrespective and regardless.]

      Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Charles – a previous commenter in one of the older post claimed that either her or her ancestors descend from India. Although, I don’t believe that should make a difference whatsoever. While I personally am no fan of any organized religion, I would hope we would judge all equally in regards to their actions without consideration for the ethnicity or assumed religious upbringing, specifically in a case where we have no knowledge if this woman is religious or not. Religion and the religious do not hold a monopoly on ignorance and homophobia.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      Note the emphasis on the word “formal” btw. Cheers Charles for bringing this back into the conversation. LOL

      Feb 19, 2009 at 10:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      What I meant to say was, I am no fan or religion period. Organized or otherwise, as Charles likely noted from several other comments I have made on other posts.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      Ironically, I had planned on returning from the dinner I just put in the oven to suggest, jokingly, that Charles and TANK were one and the same due to the reactionary tone of TANKS post on this topic and Charles’ on another. Now I’m not finding it nearly so funny.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      Sebbe, for a “proud east coast liberal” your actions are quite right-wing in manner. Working to silence those whom you disagree with; seeking to have posters censored. Bush would be proud of you.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      Wow, does TANK got some Sybil going on?

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @AladinSane:

      “There is a proper place for proper English.”

      Oh really now? And where might that “proper” place be? I am dumbfound that, as an admitted college graduate, you can make such a totally illogical statement. Why even bother learning the fine points of the language, if you are not going to use them? My Junior High School teacher must be turning over in her grave about now.

      Defending the use of poor English, in any circumstance, makes about as much sense as defending the use of words like “ain’t” “wazup”, “kewl”, Muthaf*cka and similar street-slang as acceptable “informal” speech. Try using them on a resume and see if you get considered for that high-paying position you are applying for?

      And puleeeze, spare me all the “elitist comments. I only got as far as my Junion year in high school due to being thrown out of my home at the age of 14 and being unable to support myself and continue my high education at the same time, and even I, as an uneducated person, would not stoop to making myself look that uneducated.

      And for those of you who are ready to pounce on me for being racist by my putting certain street words into parenthesis, let me just say that ignorance is an equal opportunity employer.

      It doesn’t care what your ethnicity is.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      Corrections: Add a close parenthesis after elitist and Junion should be Junior.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      I am deeply offended by the insensitivity and BIGOTRY towards those suffering from mental illness expressed by AladinSane’s Sybil comment. Shocking.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones – I am in favor of the censorship of hate speech which is common and accepted in almost all western European nations.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      And I am in favor of censoring libel, which is commonly accepted in the united states.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @AladinSane:

      “Now I’m not finding it nearly so funny.”

      And well you shouldn’t. Defending ignorance and trying to make yourself look right, when you’ve been proven wrong, is not a laughing matter.

      In fact, it’s really quite sad and the mark of a person who is not capable of being enlightened.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Phoenix (Plotting Anarchy From My Basement Lair)
      Phoenix (Plotting Anarchy From My Basement Lair)

      Why does this bitch still have a job and why are these thugs not in prison? If I were the young lady’s parent they’d be eunuchs for threatening my child…and afterwards I’d put it on YouTube as a warning to their “fans”.

      Feb 19, 2009 at 11:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ConservativeRepublican
      ConservativeRepublican

      Queerty can do whatever it wants with regard to some of the comments here. That is not a difficult legal question.

      That having been said, I am entirely against the censorship of “hate” speech or any other kind of speech. And to be frank, I really don’t give a damn what they do in Europe or anywhere else when it comes to the subject of speech. In the US, we have a very different tradition based on a very strong 1st Amendment. While this only applies in a legal sense to government actions, it is quite true that this tradition extends to the way private citizens often handle speech in their daily lives. In short, many Americans think it’s better to let people have their say, bigoted or otherwise, then to shut them up because you think their speech is worthless.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ConservativeRepublican
      ConservativeRepublican

      @TANK:

      Are you the same TANK that calls your fellow gays ‘faggots’ over at towleroad?

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ConservativeRepublican
      ConservativeRepublican

      @ConservativeRepublican:

      To add to my post 44, I was primarily responding to Sebbe’s position that “hate” speech should be censored. I was not commenting on this video, which apparently calls for the death of a specific person that the speaker knows on a personal basis.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ConservativeRepublican
      ConservativeRepublican

      @ConservativeRepublican:

      Err, post 45. From now on, I’ll just let the link refer others to which post I’m discussing, LOL.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Buddy
      Buddy

      @TANK: I suspect the hypocritical comment was based on criticizing the use of the word “irregardless” in another’s post, when you began an earilier post with “Kinda name is … ?” as opposed to the proper “What kind of name is … ?”

      Generally, commenting on someone’s spelling and grammar in a message board is considered poor form – though we all slip from time to time. Turning it into a multi-post p!ssing contest however, may be carrying it a bit too far.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scrufff
      Scrufff

      Here’s my two cents if anyone cares…Asrani sounds Muslim to me and if she is, her anti Rent/gay stance is not surprising. And take it from me an Arab American who grew up in a Muslim household, some stereotypes are TRUE. I’ve never met a more homophobic bunch of people than Muslims.

      I came out at the age of 14, and was then promptly beaten to a pulp with a shoe by my dad (to Arabs attacking someone with a shoe is the lowest form of abuse you can inflict on someone i.e. the recent infamous shoe throwing at Bush.) And when it became apparent to my extended family that I was gay via some more TRUE stereotypes; I was a high school drama fag, took ballet lessons, was a fashionably dressed kid, etc. – not only was I shunned, which was expected, but my extremely homophobic DAD was shunned by HIS family for having a gay son. So strong is their homophobia that my father was rejected by his family due to gay by association.

      More shocking was the recent revelation by my mom that at the time my dad had considered to resort to a “honor killing” to restore his family honor. Mind you this was not in some forsaken desert hell hole, this was in 1980’s Orange County, CA (actually not to far from Corona Del Mar HS). The reason he didn’t do it was because he wasn’t sure how long he’d have to serve for my murder.

      Back to the issue at hand, the fact that the boys that threatened to rape a lesbian student only got a slap on the wrists doesn’t surprise me. Islam is a culture were rape victims are blamed for the rape and are severely punished by their families and then shunned by the community for being damaged goods.

      Again, from an Arab American who grew up Muslim (but now a card carrying atheist), my experience with Muslims/Islam has been a nightmare. From my personal experience they are a virulently misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic people. So all you nice PC, let’s not stereotype, put people in a box… just try and be gay in an Islamic environment and see how the shit hits the fan big time.

      Signed, A very lucky AMERICAN. Had I been born back in the “Old Country” I’d be dead.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 2:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      @Scrufff:

      Sorry that you had to go through such terrible experiences. However, it isn’t about being PC, it’s about waiting to judge until we have more facts. Asrani is a common surname in more than Muslim cultures, particularly Hindi and Buddhist. There is also quite a distinct possibility that the person in question could be Christian, pagan, or atheist given we are speaking of an American (and a Californian at that). Let’s give it a little time and not rush to snap judgments. This story will play itself out without a need for us to be reactionary. If you followed TANK on here as well as Towleroad you’d understand why it wouldn’t surprise anyone in the least that he was a bigot.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 3:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Scrufff:

      Thank you for sharing this horrific life experience with us. I hope it serves a a wake-up call to all of the complacent, gay, turn-the-other-cheek crown who think that they can reason with this kind of madness.

      I just finished reading your post and all I can say is, I am stunned. So much so, that I really don’t know what to say?

      While I have read about and seen videos of the atrocities committed by believers and followers of Islam, it is the absolute first time I have ever actually read something this shocking and first hand by a gay poster in our midst and on one of our websites. It’s a real eye opener.

      No matter how long I live, and I have been on this planet for a very long time, I will never, ever be able to wrap my mind around the concept of a father who would actually murder one of his own children that he supposedly loves, simply to follow some abstract teachings and dogma about an invisible misogynistic, homophobic and xenophobic sky-daddy who needs be appeased.

      We are all very happy to know that you had the good fortune of having been born on American soil in stead of the “Old Country” so that you could share your experience with us.

      Thank you, the very best of luck to you and much happiness in your life.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 3:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @AladinSane:

      “There is also quite a distinct possibility that the person in question could be Christian, pagan, or atheist given we are speaking of an American (and a Californian at that).

      Thank you, Clarence Darrow. Deep. Real deep.

      Yup. With a name like Fal Asrani, there is about as much chance as discovering that she is a Christian, pagan or (gasp) atheist as discovering that the Pope is Jewish.

      Your post is as irrelevant as peanut butter on a donkey’s ass. What possible difference would it make as to her homophobic reasons for banning the drama department from putting on Rent? Is that really going to change anything or lessen the homophobic message she is putting out to the school students?

      Feb 20, 2009 at 4:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      Ah, again a racist troll rears its ugly head. I’m safe to assume with the surname of Mueller that you’re a nazi (god, took me 35 years to finally invoke Godwin’s law and I’d be ashamed if only it weren’t appropos atm). To be fair, if we are going to judge people based merely on a name THEY HAD NO CONTROL OVER SINCE THEY WERE BORN WITH IT OR MARRIED INTO, then I’m perfectly safe in assuming you want to put a pink triangle on me as you send me to the gas chambers. Whatever am I thinking being married to someone with the same surname? Maybe I should stereotype you because you’re gay, male, older, and have a German surname? Is that acceptable? My arguement was merely that we don’t know her religion and it would be foolish to jump to conclusions.

      As to motivation, I made no mention. I merely suggested that this stay a reasoned and civil debate that didn’t descend into racist or religious bigotry before having all the facts. I am most flattered that you compare me to Clarence Darrow as he is a hero of mine. Anyone that wants to debate an issue on it’s merit and not blind dogma is someone that I respect, which obviously does not apply to you.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 4:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @AladinSane:

      Where are the three, quick finger snaps?

      When they can’t win the debate with logical, intelligent arguments, they always sink to to personal attacks and name-calling, despite the fact that I have not called you any.

      I called it in my post No. 38. It was just a matter of time before you got low and dirty.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      .”@Charles J. Mueller:
      I’m sorry? “Where are the three, quick finger snaps?” Where are you going with this and what does it have to do with the points made? Maybe you construe this as a personal attack that I will somehow receive validation from, I’m at all not sure. Actually, I’m quite a bit confused since I was only extending your argument “logically.”

      “When they can’t win the debate with logical, intelligent arguments, they always sink to to personal attacks and name-calling, despite the fact that I have not called you any.”

      Who is this they? If you are responding to me then just address me directly. Grammatically you imply it with “despite the fact that I have not called you any,” which is erroneous since in the post before you say, “Thank you, Clarence Darrow. Deep. Real deep.” From the context it is safe to assume you were name calling as well as belittling my logical facilities. Arguably it was poorly done since you equate me with someone that many reasoned people hold in high esteem.

      If anyone is guilty of not being able to win a debate with “logical, intelligent arguments,” it is you sir. You have yet to actually debate my argument, or any for that matter, on its merit, responding only with vitriol. Answer the question:
      If it is right for you to judge someone merely on the basis of their surname, is it not right for me to judge you on yours? You are the one that equates surname with religion and belief. It is also disingenuous for you to then say religious motivation is irrelevant when you posted on it previously. “With a name like that, you even need to ask? lol. I’ll lay you odds that it’s Islam. But, I could be wrong.”

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      And to your earlier post:
      “There is a proper place for proper English.” “Oh really now? And where might that “proper” place be? I am dumbfound [sic] that, as an admitted college graduate, you can make such a totally illogical statement. Why even bother learning the fine points of the language, if you are not going to use them? My Junior High School teacher must be turning over in her grave about now.”
      Maybe I should critique your dubious use of the language? “Dumbfound”ed much? “Puleeeze” spare me from any use of the language that you do not find acceptable. I happen to enjoy that English is the most fluid of languages and recognize that languages evolve. And that would be “Why even bother learning the fine points of the language if you are not going to use them.” No comma unless you switched the phrases around. Oh, that’s right, you don’t have a monopoly on the “proper” use of English and grammar.
      Your grasp of logic is as poor as your grasp of English. Any English, Public Speaking, or Communications teacher will tell you to frame your message to your audience. Forgive me if I find language fun and colorful (actually I don’t mean that, I could care less about your opinion). I’m sorry a teacher that taught you in 1960 might have a problem. My logic teacher is “spinning” around in his seat (with glee and still alive) that I’m able to deduce your age and the approximate time frame you attended school by your posts in other topics.
      “Defending the use of poor English, in any circumstance, makes about as much sense as defending the use of words like “ain’t” “wazup”, “kewl”, Muthaf*cka and similar street-slang as acceptable “informal” speech. Try using them on a resume and see if you get considered for that high-paying position you are applying for?” The thing is, I DON’T have to defend them. I like it. Get over it. Ironically, I make money on the side helping people prepare resumes (and every single one of them has thanked me for my assistance). Intelligent people are quite capable of distinguishing the proper place and time for colloquialisms/slang. And here’s the real rub: “informal” speech is exactly that, informal. It is not required to obey or conform to any set of laws. It merely has to be useful and understood by the people using it.
      Something to keep in mind is a metaphor that I use with all the kids I tutor….Language is a car: the more parts you have, the better an engine you can build.
      And puleeeze, [again, sic] spare me all the “elitist comments. I only got as far as my Junion [thrice sic, good thing I’m not an internet English/grammar nazi] year in high school due to being thrown out of my home at the age of 14 and being unable to support myself and continue my high education at the same time, and even I, as an uneducated person, would not stoop to making myself look that uneducated.”
      This last part is what really, really rubs me. Somehow you conflate using language you do not personally like (and let’s be frank, ultimately it’s only your opinion since there is no LANGUAGE GOD) as being uneducated. Stop projecting your own insecurities on the world around you. That is what screams “elitist” like a drag queen drunk her first night on the Castro. You entirely missed the point in your own quote. “Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing.” Circle getting a square here? “…It is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing.” That does not equate to “epic fail, you are wrong, do not pass the dead English teacher.”

      Feb 20, 2009 at 6:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      “I am in favor of the censorship of hate speech which is common and accepted in almost all western European nations.”

      But Sebbe, you are not in the EU and neither is Queerty. You’re in America. Our house, our rules.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 9:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Scrufff – Thank you for sharing. I am glad you made it through obviously very well adjusted.

      @charles / AladinSane – I also think it is very dangerous territory to be making assumptions about people simply by their name. As said, specifically an American living in California.

      All of this talk about the proper use of formal English is absurd. That is not the point of these blog posts. This blog and posts are not a formal venue. I would also remind some that many of us, access this site from mobile devices and grew up in a culture of using informal English in electronic communications. That does not make us unable to use proper formal English when required.

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones – First, my intention was (or should not have been) to label Tank’s comments as hate speech, more as a general statement. Although I still feel his comments conflict with Queerty’s comment policy. Hate speech and free speech are not the same thing. Hate speech is censored (to a degree) in America as well. That video above would have been immediately pulled down by youtube/facebook or any other reputable site once administrators were aware of it.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 9:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      “Our house, our rules” – please review Queerty’s comment policy.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 9:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      “First, my intention was (or should not have been) to label Tank’s comments as hate speech, more as a general statement.”

      I appreciate that. But you seem more intent on removing Tank, along with his words. That is censorship. You don’t just disagree with Tank’s words, you disagree with him and you are using the threat of Queerty’s comment policy to shut him up.

      “Although I still feel his comments conflict with Queerty’s comment policy.”

      That’s not for you to decide. Posters here do a fine job of policing ourselves, long before the comments policy came into effect. If you spend all your time flagging comments you don’t like, that will bite you on the ass and others will do the same to you. Eventually the comments sections will be empty.

      “Hate speech and free speech are not the same thing.”

      One person’s hate is another’s free speech. What we write about anti-gay religious people is considered hate by them. Would you like to see Queerty shut down because of what we write about those people?

      “Hate speech is censored (to a degree) in America as well.”

      And freedom of religion is protected in the Constitution. Will you agree with anti-gay religious people if they shut down our right to disagree with their statements about us?

      “That video above would have been immediately pulled down by youtube/facebook or any other reputable site once administrators were aware of it.”

      Which clearly shows that your belief that, “Hate speech is censored (to a degree) in America as well.” If it was, that video would be gone and those boys would be arrested.

      “Our house, our rules” – please review Queerty’s comment policy.”

      Which part? There is noting in there about trying to intimidate posters with threats of running to papa Japhy with your complaints. Tank did not call you names, curse, or threaten you. You simply disagree with what he wrote and threatened to shut him down for what he wrote. That, my friend, is censorship.

      I have noticed that you feel you have become buddy-buddy with Japhy; all your little back and forths with him. I certainly hope you don’t believe that familiarity with him gives you an “in” to try and intimidate others you disagree with. That is not the intention of the comments policy.

      We use to police ourselves quite well here. I’ve noticed an increase of posters looking for a nanny-state to protect them from things that hurt their feelings. No offense, Sebbe, but you appear a little too bold in your attempts to pick fights with posters. That won’t go over well here, comments policy, or not

      Feb 20, 2009 at 9:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      By the way, Sebbe, this was Queerty’s very first set of comment rules:

      “We’ve always had loose guidelines about posting comments on Queerty. Now, some definitive rules. Let all your questions be answered! They’re pretty easy, though. Rule No. 1: Don’t be a dickwad.”

      http://www.queerty.com/introducing-queertys-comment-policy-20090107/

      Feb 20, 2009 at 9:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Mr. Enemabag Jones –

      I don’t believe comments are ever stricken from the record here just a line through. Also I have only ever flagged one other comment, which was a personal attack on someone else.

      The fact is that the comment policy is now in affect.

      Is that video still viewable? Maybe it is my phone, I was unable to access it? I don’t see any relation to the police. Although it should have been reported/investigated by them IMO.

      I certainly do not consider myself “buddy-buddy” with Japh, but I am fan of his and appreciate his writing and contributions to this site and others.

      What you used to do is irrelevant and what the publisher of this site has decided to do now is what is. Like I have said before, this is not an lgbt community center. It is a commercial site where the opinions of the publisher/editors are expressed.

      I respect your opinions, but I think I agree with posters as often as I disagree. Like I said, I and many of us are more interested in a dialogue then attacking one another or entire classes of people based on assumed stereotypes.

      That said I will leave this here and take what you have said under consideration.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mr. Enemabag Jones
      Mr. Enemabag Jones

      “I don’t believe comments are ever stricken from the record here just a line through. Also I have only ever flagged one other comment, which was a personal attack on someone else.”

      I now of two posters who have been banned. One because of his anger with white gays and the other because of his anger in general.

      “The fact is that the comment policy is now in affect.”

      As unfortunate a that is. However, since the first comment policy is dated January 7 of this year, I believe we should follow that one, and not the long winded version that was released later.

      “Is that video still viewable?”

      I have no idea, I didn’t watch it. That is what I normally do. I don’t need to watch anti-gay messages to know they are anti-gay.

      “What you used to do is irrelevant and what the publisher of this site has decided to do now is what is…It is a commercial site where the opinions of the publisher/editors are expressed.”

      According to Queerty:

      “What goes in to making Queerty the best gay read around…mostly, it’s readers like you.”

      “Queerty is better because of our readers.”

      So I have to disagree with you on your above statement, Sebbe. We police ourselves. Always have, always will.

      “Like I said, I and many of us are more interested in a dialogue then attacking one another or entire classes of people based on assumed stereotypes.”

      Muslims don’t like gays. That is a fact. If you don’t believe me, read Scruff’s comment @#50. Sorry, Sebbe, but I will take his *experience* with Islam and gays, over your *opinion* of Islam and gays.

      “That said I will leave this here and take what you have said under consideration.”

      You don’t have to leave this thread, or take anything I write under consideration. Just stop pushing people around. And before you ask, no I am not older than you and I am not bitter, or combative. I just don’t like the tone Queerty has taken lately.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 10:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @AladinSane:

      Oh, so this is your default. You lash out irrationally and without basis, accusing anyone and everyone of racism who happens to disagree with you… This is pretty bad for a lot of reasons, but specifically there’s real racism out there, and you calling everyone and anyone a racist who disagrees with you (i.e.g, crying wolf)…well, it trivializes real racism. I’m surprised I have to tell this to an adult.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      Wow, scruff, that was pretty heartbreaking stuff, and was hard to read. Unfortunately, it’s not uncommon, especially in the “old world”. I hope you’ve found happiness.

      Yes, some “stereotypes” are spot on, and there are some gays out there who really don’t understand the realities of life for the vast majority of people on this planet; especially gay people. They not only are extremely ignorant of this (cultural and institutional homophobia and sexism), but seek to defend it by calling anyone a racist, ethnocentric, or a religious bigot who calls it wrong. Well, it’s wrong, and moreso, it’s unethical to defend what’s wrong. I will never stop confronting injustice–even in blog comments.

      ———

      Second, I have made no assumptions about fal asrani. I didn’t say that she was pakistani and muslim; in fact, I stated that I didn’t know, but was curious to find out considering that it is ILLEGAL to be gay in pakistan. It is punishable by death. This is because its legal system is based on mix of colonial and secular sharia law. Bringing this up is apparently “hate speech” according to some highly irrational posters here. Given her name, it is not racist to inquire that there might be cultural and religious causes to her unacceptable homophobia. The odds that she has pakistani heritage and that she is muslim are considerably higher than if her name were sally jones. But once again, I stated clearly that I didn’t know (I still don’t), and made no assumptions about her. I am merely curious. And it would make sense.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 2:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @Scrufff:

      Wow. I always assumed that being gay and Muslim would be quite an experience (and not in a good way). What you described was just horrendous. You are lucky to have gotten out of that home environment alive.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 2:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Paul Gustin
      Paul Gustin

      Here is the principal’s email:

      fasrani@nmusd.us

      Write up a storm!

      Feb 20, 2009 at 2:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Sebbe:

      “@charles / AladinSane – I also think it is very dangerous territory to be making assumptions about people simply by their name. As said, specifically an American living in California.

      You wrote:

      “All of this talk about the proper use of formal English is absurd. That is not the point of these blog posts. This blog and posts are not a formal venue. I would also remind some that many of us, access this site from mobile devices and grew up in a culture of using informal English in electronic communications. That does not make us unable to use proper formal English when required.”

      Sebbe, since locking horns with you sometime back which was also occasioned by a seeming need on your behalf to pick a fight with me over something I posted that you did not like, we finally made our peace. I believe that I have been exceedingly considerate of your commentaries and made exceedingly cordial with you ever since.

      I have policed my comments to you and made every effort NOT to say anything to you that you might take affront to and have not disagreed with anything you have posted ever since…almost to the point that I have come to feel like I am walking on egg shells when I come to this site these days.

      Despite my aforementioned efforts to stay out of your way, lest I offend, you have have seen yet once again, for the purpose of scolding me, which makes me want to ask, “Are you my mother? And, if not, why are you acting like you are?”

      You lectured me by saying “All of this talk about the proper use of formal English is absurd.”, which was a Godwin’s law statement you threw down like a gauntlet and which was intended to shut down my right to have a discussion with someone on this thread over the use of a word.

      You have as much right as any of us to state you opinion and avail us of information we might be interested in hearing. But, to tell two people who are having a dialogue over a point that what they are absurd, is a personal judgement (Sebbe’s Rules) not contribution that enlightens anyone.

      After trying to shut me down, you go on to lecture me about making assumptions. Sebbe, an assumption is all that it was. It was not an accusation for which I had proof perfect. You throw that word at me like it is a bad thing. It simply means taking a given for granted, based on the information we have at hand and we make assumptions every day of our lives.

      We assume that the sun will rise. We assume that the car will start. We assume that our job will still be awaiting us when we arrive at the office. We assume that there will be a paycheck awaiting us at the end of the week. We assume that the two-week vacation our boss promised us at the time of our job interview will be given to us after a year of employment. We assume that we will receive a Christmas bonus. We assume that our furniture will not be sitting out in the street when we get back home from work and we assume that our partner will be waiting for us with open arm and perhaps a lovingly prepared, home-cooked meal. And we even assume that we might get a piece later that evening if we’re real lucky.

      As was pointed out in a previous post, any of those assumptions can be proven erroneous based on the presentation of new evidence. But, does that imply that we are wrong to make any of the above assumptions, simply because we could be proven wrong on any one of them? Baby. Bath. Water.

      Furthermore, I never critiqued you as to your use of English. My debate was with AladinSane over just one word (irregardlss) not an attack on his vocabulary, his sentence structure, abbreviation or punctuation, which seems to be the way in which he too took my “for instances.” In my debate with AladinSane, I do not recall directing any of my comments toward you. Why this need on your behalf, to involve yourself in every single conversation going on in each and every one of these threads? This isn’t your fight, Sebbe. It’s between AladinSane and me.

      The fact that we all use acronyms on portable electronic devices in order to save both time and money, is a given and I don’t need to be “reminded” of that fact by you. I perceived it as nothing more than another scolding from mommy. At 72 years of age, I do not appreciate younger guys, and I am not being an ageist by saying this, who are attempting to make me look old, foolish or senile, simply for choosing to use good grammar.

      Personally, after 8 years of Mr. Bushs’ dumbing down of America, we could use a little more intelligence and education and instead of feeling obliged to have to sink down to the level of street crackheads and drug dealers.

      These threads, however, are quite a different story. The commentaries are not limited in any manner, way or form that I am aware of. These posts are not being charged for by their length like a cell phone text message. And, there is no stated rule in the Commenting Policy that says we must stay on topic, especially, when there are those who feel the need to police the commentaries of others, as you have done, yet once again, with mine, as well as others. We have a right to respond when people take it upon themselves to get on the cases of others.

      “That is not the point of these blog posts.” Another of “Sebbe’s Rules”?

      Au contraire, Monsieur. That’s precisely what blogs are all about. Not schmoozing the editor and making nicey-nice with him so you can get people you have taken a personal dislike to kicked off these threads. Sad to say, but as of late, this site is beginning to feel more like a politically correct Corona del Mar High School where drama classes are banned from putting on a play that the principal feels that the gay characters in it are offensive and self-appointed “Hall Monitors” are reporting anyone who does not go along with their notions as to what constitutes debatable subjects or commentaries on these threads.

      I am the very first to advocate that Christian hate speakers, homophobes of both the gay and straight variety, and surf-by shooters should be banned from this site. They serve no purpose, whatsoever on an obviously gay site, other than being shit-stirrers. We do not come here to put ourselves on public display, simply for the amusement and edification of those who seek to degrade and harm us and we have a right to be expect to be protected from same, just as we have a right to expect a gay bar/disco to protect us from homophobes and those whose only objective and intent is to harm an LGBT person.

      But, when members of the LGBT community request that other members of the LGBT community be barred from stating their opinions and ideas on these threads, simply because we do not agree with them, then we have crossed the line IMHO.

      And now, Sebbe, allow me remind you of something, if I may, since you have seen fit to reprimand me. You are the relative newcomer to this site. Many of us have been posting on these threads long before you even thought of coming here. And, as Mr. Enemabag Jones so aptly pointed out, we used to police ourselves quite well here.

      And, I mean no offense either, Sebbe, but I too feel compelled to agree with mr. Enemabag Jones that you do appear a little too bold in your attempts to pick fights with posters.

      As Dale Carnegie would be the first to say, it’s not the way to win friends and influence people.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @AladinSane:

      Knock yourself out, AladinSane.

      As the Christians have claimed the word marriage to be all their own, I cede the word irregardless to you for your personal and exclusive use.

      I won’t miss it for a momnt, I assure you. ;-)

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @charles – I responded because I was the one who used the word “irregardless” not aladinsane. See above.

      I have also been a long time reader of this site, before choosing to partake in the comments. I will admit that until recently I rarely bothered to read the comments and was content with solely the post as presented by the editors.

      As far as my comment above that you quoted. I only intended the first sentence at you. From “All of this talk about….” was not directed at you or anyone in particular. Although I see how it could be construed that way.

      I also police myself in regards to your comments after previous disagreements and agreements with you. I am fine with that personally. I read what you have to say and take from it what I will. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I do not.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Sebbe:

      Thank you for correcting me. With all the words that have been flying about on this thread, one can easily become lost in the verbage, as I obviously did. That being the case, I re-direct my comment to AladinSane to you instead. ;-)

      Thank you also for the clarification of your comment. I was, perhaps, a bit too hasty in taking it personal. An obvious “assumption” on my behalf that proved to be wrong. It seemed like a continuation of your thoughts directed at both me and AladinJones before directing your next comment at Mr. Enemabag Jones in the same post. To err is human.

      And last, but not least, I will always defend your right to agree or disagree.

      That is, after all, the American way.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Charles – The error was mine, both the original use of the word and the format that seemed like it was a continuation of my previous thoughts.

      cheers

      Feb 20, 2009 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @Sebbe:

      Pax.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scrufff
      Scrufff

      @Aladinsane
      Yes of course, we do not know what Ms. Asrani religious and culture affiliations are and therefore can’t make any assumptions regarding her personal beliefs. For all I know, she could be a black, lesbian atheist that simply just doesn’t like “Rent” – full disclosure, I never liked this play ;-)

      After originally reading this post, I saw an opportunity within Queerty’s comment page to tell my individual story as it relates to the larger issue of a culture clash between the US, an open society and the Islamic world, a closed one. And I guess I wanted to vent that the gulf between these two cultures are huge and where unfortunately the US’s consensus building and diplomatic outreach to the Islamic world in my opinion will never work in regards to homosexuality. So my reason to tell my story here was not so much aimed at Ms. Asrani. But to just share my personal belief of how the Islamic world among other things reacts to open expressions of homosexuality.

      P.S. love your handle, IMHO Aladinsane is one of the best rock albums of all time! “Panic in Detroit”, a glam rock classic.

      First off, thank you all for the kind words of support. I’m just a normal guy considering the Islamic BS my father tried to shove down my throat throughout my childhood. For anyone interested, I cut off ties after the 3rd time a pulled a gun on me. Unfortunately he and my mom are still together so it makes keeping an ongoing relationship with my mom tenuous at best. BTW, my mom is not a Muslim nor of Arab descent, she’s a lapsed Roman Catholic from Brazil – talk about oil and vinegar not mixing ;-)

      Obviously my comments below are a gross over simplification of a complex issue. So please lets not nit pick, I know there are good apples and bad apples in every basket.

      @Charles J. Mueller, you wrote:
      No matter how long I live, and I have been on this planet for a very long time, I will never, ever be able to wrap my mind around the concept of a father who would actually murder one of his own children that he supposedly loves, simply to follow some abstract teachings and dogma about an invisible misogynistic, homophobic and xenophobic sky-daddy who needs be appeased.

      Charels, tt is my opinion that this hardcore misogyny, homophobia and xenophobia isn’t just rooted in Islam but is in part a manifestation of the Arab’s world ignorant, backward system beliefs that favors above all male dominance (interestingly the Koran isn’t as anti female as today’s current Muslim mores). Their male centric culture is a construct that predates Islam and has its roots in tribal customs of the Arabian deserts. Obviously I don’t need to go into detail on how women are treated in many patriartical Muslim countries… no surprise here its pretty SHITTY to say the least. And so by extension being gay is seen as feminine trait – the notion that a man would willing subjugate himself by bottoming for another man is revolting to Muslims male and female alike.

      On a side note, Dan Savage (one of my heroes), has often written how when homophobes think about gays in general, they immediately go to the “ick” factor regarding male to male sex or more pointedly anal sex. It’s often the only thing that comes to mind when heteroes think of gay men. They don’t care about what the LGBT movement has added to the arts, to culture, to the communities in which we live etc. What they fixate on is the dirty fudge packing butt sex that us faggots participate in. And nowhere is this mentality more ingrained than that of the Islamic world (and of course to a lesser degree the Christian right wingers as well). It’s like a giant neon sign in their brains screaming dirty butt sex dirty butt dirty sex butt sex. Whatever.

      And so returning to my original post about trying to be open minded about the Muslim world, I’m sorry we can’t, they hate us homosexuals. When the Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh (http://tinyurl.com/c49d3) was murdered by an extremist Muslim because of a film he made about the treatment of Muslim women, my first thought and mind you I’m part Arab, was deport the Imans. Through out the Western world these clerics spout anti west rhetoric in Mosques week after week (and to put salt on the wound, in the US they’re tax exempt). Often the rhetoric is that the faithful are directly ordered by Allah to change their host countries to Islamic fearing regions. Fucking bullshit. Deport them all.

      Ok I’m off soap box. I don’t talk about my past much but today, I just need to get this stuff off my chest. Thanks for putting up with me.

      I don’t know if this is ok per Queerty’s standards, but if anyone would like to discuss this further, then can reach me directly at gladtolivehere@live.com

      As my Brazilian mom would say…

      amor e beijos,
      Scrufff

      Feb 20, 2009 at 6:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • voice of reason
      voice of reason

      @Brian Miller:It absolutely astonishes me how skewed, inaccurate, and biased this article is. In fact, I would almost be unable to believe how much a story can change from real events to the crap that a journalist puts in a story to get attention. I watched the video the boys put up on facebook, and NEVER EVEN ONCE did any of them reference, imply, or hint at any level of homosexuality or homosexual behavior. THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. These selfish journalists should be the ones ashamed of themselves for blowing a minor story completely out of proportion. I’m good friends with these guys and we all know and respect a number of gay people. If you had even SEEN the video, you would know that there was no malicious intent behind any of their words, and the “threats of rape and death” were actually just a mildly sexual remark and the claim that a FRIEND dislikes the girl, not even that anyone in the video does. Oh, and by the way, I happen to know first hand that this girl is DEFINITELY not gay, as do quite a few of my friends ;) The 5 days suspension that these good guys were punished with was ridiculous- maybe instead of punishing anyone for posting an actually very funny video (only about 10 seconds of the 4 minute video got them in trouble), the administration should realize that if someone is issuing “death threats” about you, you’re probably doing something wrong socially, so stop being so annoying.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 8:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Parent
      Parent

      I have seen the video. It’s NOT funny and is extremely homophobic. It is true that the girl they threaten in it is not gay, just as it is true that the school’s response to the video is wrong.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 8:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Concerned
      Concerned

      I agree that the incident involving the three seniors should have been referred to the local police, County Sheriff or the District Attorney for criminal prosecution. However, CDM High School is in Orange County, California one of the most conservative and wealthiest areas of the US.

      As a little background, the former County Sheriff was forced to resign because he was indicted on various criminal charges along with this wife and girl friend. And Orange County was the only county in the US that ever went bankrupt when their county treasurer lost millions in financial speculation.

      The parents of the girl in question could have filed charges with the police and then given stories to a number of strategic newspapers in the region. I suspect two things, one that there is more to this story than we have heard and that pressure was placed on the school to resolve it so the parents of the boys wouldn’t be embarrassed.

      Feb 20, 2009 at 9:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jane
      jane

      @Parent: Having suffered through seeing this video, I have to agree with you. It starts by the boys saying “You’re popping my cherry you fuckin’ homo” and goes down hill from there. It hits bottom when the boys, who are all large athletes, threaten to shoot the young woman in the head and rape her in the back of a truck. It is not funny — or smart. It is gross, cruel, brutal, and criminal. Those who think this is a first amendment issue, or that it happened off school grounds, have to check their facts. Facebook is accessed through school networks, and this video appeared on the Facebook home page of every student in the school. The school did nothing to have it removed (until the parents complained and a lot of damage had been done. The school never did anything to protect the young woman from bullying. A whole bunch of laws were violated here.
      “Voice of Reason”‘s post, which is libelous toward the young woman, just continues that cruel bullying on the Queerty site.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 3:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • joe spicoli
      joe spicoli

      bonerjam

      Feb 21, 2009 at 3:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Jane – I’m sure you noticed and were outraged at how “voice of reason” ended his comment.

      “the administration should realize that if someone is issuing “death threats” about you, you’re probably doing something wrong socially, so stop being so annoying”.

      Doing something wrong socially? I was outraged at reading that, but thought it futile to even engage him/her as to an explanation of what that even meant. Further, I would hope that “VOReason” would head his/her own advise and “stop being so annoying”.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 9:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cle
      cle

      @Brian Miller,
      I too have seen the video and you are way off here. It was extremely homophobic and the negative sexual references to the young woman in question were disgusting. Yes she is straight but that does not make a difference. The fact that you see them them as “mild” is troublesome to me. I am the mother of an adult gay son and the find the ugly verbiage seen on that video can only lead to violence against gays and women. Those boys weren’t’ funny, to me they felt entitled and in my opinion the school and police have been negligent it handling this. Excusing this behavior because they were drunk(they said that a number of times on the video) or their affections weren’t reciprocated is allowing the hate to go on. Those boys need intervention so their girlfriends won’t become another “battered” statistic. Your dismissal of the video is shocking.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cle
      cle

      My comments were in reference to @Voice of Reason.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      @cle:

      CLE, you suffer from a disease that is all too common in America — emotionitis. Rather than think, you “feel” outrage, and blather incoherent emotional outbursts rather than consider the facts of what were written. Worse still, you have an expectation that I’m supposed to feel guilty over your out-of-control emotions.

      Not only did I not ever describe the video as “mild,” but I also pointed out that it was likely an actionable civil tort and criminal offense.

      I simply noted that it’s not the place of the principal to get involved in situations that happen off campus, and that the proper venue was not the principal’s office but the courts.

      Dispense with your “outraged feelings,” and start thinking. Read what’s actually written and stated and consider it. And stop pretending that you’re in some privileged position as the parent of a queer kid — I’m a queer man who experienced physical violence in and out of school myself, and don’t assign you some position of elevated privilege based solely on your need to emote rather than think.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 1:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the real oc
      the real oc

      OK well first off I’m going to start off by saying all of you people need to get your own life. Second of all I love the references to the “Orange County Kids” as a derogatory term, I thought this whole blog was about eliminating classifications and labels of people. Third of all these “brats” happen to be good friends of mine and in no way are they homophobes or homo-haters. Our school is a very diverse one and has students of different colors, religions, and sexualities like every high school in AMERICA. We are all acquainted and hang out with a couple of homosexuals ourselves outside of school. You see… here in “the O.C.”, we do not place labels on people we just either like them or we don’t. If we do not like someone we do not make threats we just stay out of each others lives and it is as easy as that. The girl that these “disgusting homophobes” so called threatened is actually indeed very straight and very socially capable of handling a problem like this on her own. I do not know why she reacted the way she did, but I feel it was way over killed(and no that is not a threat). The girl was actually an ex girlfriend of the GUY!!! whose facebook the video was recorded on. She WAS also friends with the boys in the video until the incident happened, so we all know that anything said to her was said in a jokingly matter not intended in any harmful kind of way… I mean come on have you never made a joke about an EX with anyone??? come on people get real. These kids are all good kids and may toss the word GAY around every once in a while and I am not pardoning this in any way but it has become a part of the new teenage language to call something gay that we do not like. And the “Your popping my cherry you fucking homo” remark was again addressed to the boy who’s facebook the video was being recorded on. So the next time you want to bash on some teenagers (which never seems to get old to some people), maybe you should do a little research yourself so you don’t look like a such a fool posting false information on the internet.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 2:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      First we get shit on.

      Then we get posters coming on a gay site and saying, “What’s da problem? You don’t like it? Too fuckin’ bad. Get over yourself.”

      Frankly, I’m just about over coming on this site anymore. It’s becoming too much of insult one’s sensibilities and intelligence.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 3:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cle
      cle

      @brian miller.
      As you can see the post was meant to respond to someone else. I am sorry I didn’t relate it the first time. But since you brought it up I must state that a certain amount of emotion is not always a bad thing as long as it is balanced with reason and fairness. I do not and have never thought I was in some sort of privileged position because my son is gay. I am privileged because I have my son. But being a parent I do get emotional when I know people are hurtful and at times even violent because he is who he is. I agree with you on many counts and unfortunately I was making an “emotional” response to someone else. I have seen the video and found it ugly and stupid. Yet from the postings from the teens that are involved or know those involved they really don’t find anything wrong with it nor have they apolized to anyone they offended. That is the problem. Perhaps it was drunken teenage jousting gone awry but it is till wrong and must be addressed by the proper authorities. Which I might add is being considered.
      I do not or will not feel my emotions regarding my two children safety and well being wrong. Saying this I do believe we must continue strengthening the avenues that can stop the culture of hatred that lurks beneath the surface with so many societal institutions. I think Brian Miller I struck a nerve and there was just a bit of emotion in your response.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 3:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @cle:

      CLE, I have followed this thread very closely and I must say that Brian Miller’s off-handed comments to you, sounded almost as ugly and stupid as the teens in the video.

      In fact, I would even go one step further and state that I believe that Brian Miller’s remarks smacked of heterophobia, which to me, as an openly gay man, is equally as distasteful and inappropriate as homophobic remarks.

      I admire and congratulate you, the mother of a gay son, on the understanding and support you are obviously giving him. While I do know that there are many mothers like you who are supportive of their LGBT children, I also know that there are many parents who are not.

      I apologize for my gay brother’s unfeeling and calloused remarks. Whether you “struck a nerve” or not, is not the issue. You said nothing to him that wasn’t the truth. I hope you do know that his attitude and abusive comments are not indicative of the majority of LGBT peoples thoughts, feelings and behavior.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 6:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nikko
      nikko

      That’s some justifying on your part, THE REAL OC. I just don’t buy any of it. Good people don’t do such things, period. End of story. That you would call these “brats” good is really offensive.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 9:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cle
      cle

      @Charles J. Mueller: A mother thanks you!

      Feb 21, 2009 at 10:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @nikko:

      Ditto your comments, nikko.

      Feb 21, 2009 at 11:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Student
      Student

      As a student at CdM, I would like people to know that this article is slightly misinformed and does not include all of the facts behind the video, and, frankly, I think it is a little unfair for some people to be bashing these students after reading a brief summary of one side of the issue.

      With that said, Mrs. Asrani’s disciplinary priorities are incredibly skewed and confusing for students to understand. Her cancelling of Rent was both unwarranted and hypocritical. Over the past few years she has forced the Student Government at the high school to support a program known as Human Relations Council that works to bring tolerance and community to our campus. The fact that she would cancel Rent because of homosexual characters is the most disappointing thing I could ever imagine happening to our school because it proves that all of the work we have put in to making our school a healthier place was done in vain.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 3:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cee
      Cee

      Wow, they are digging up all kinds of shiz on this lady…LOL She she be pulled out of that school.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cle
      cle

      @Student:
      I saw the video and it was stupid and disgusting. The boys in it were gross and perhaps if you watched it through the eyes of the offended you would understand. It confirms that your school really needs to open the discussion and build some bridges here. The principal should lead the way. I’m sorry you have been let down. Hopefully things can turn around but the video can not or should not be excused in any way.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 7:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bigbadunix
      bigbadunix

      I remember when Queery wasn’t filled with such thin-skinned and politically correct weaklings.

      Bad grammar is bad grammar. Catty is catty. Racist is racist. Whatever. Just because you take the time to post something doesn’t mean it’s worthy of being read. Just because you read something that makes you feel bad doesn’t mean that it’s worthy of a reply.

      Think about that before you press ‘Submit’, we’d cut down on the signal to noise ratio considerably.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 8:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles J. Mueller
      Charles J. Mueller

      @bigbadunix:

      Thank you for a post that was high on noise….

      And totally lacking on signal.

      Bully much, do you?

      Feb 22, 2009 at 9:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faux Asrani
      Faux Asrani

      Get over it!

      Quit all this whining. I’m back and the school’s going into lockdown. And if I see that KCAL-9 satellite truck sitting in the parking lot tomorrow all I have to do is tell Officer Monarch to chase them off.

      But I do want to apologize… to everyone at the district who had to cut their vacations short to deal with this brouhaha. Thank you for stone-walling. And to the NMUSD webmaster who had to come back to work to add that pathetic commentary to the home page, but, did you notice? It’s all scrubbed away, as if it never happened. You can all worry about the state budget now.

      So write all the letters to the district you want. They’ll protect me because I’m one of them.

      And to all you kids, no funny business tomorrow. If I see any form of protest I’ll have my flying monkey Fernando cart you away. You’ll wish you hadn’t messed with me. Zero tolerance, remember.

      Feb 22, 2009 at 10:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • StudentAtCDM
      StudentAtCDM

      @Scrufff: SHe’s actually a Hindu, I believe.

      And at school’s, the Principal is not the one that handles discipline, I believe that is the Assistant Principle. I thought she expelled a streaker or something like 3 months ago?

      Feb 24, 2009 at 12:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sheena
      sheena

      @TANK: its indian u ass and its not muslim…its a regular indian last name…

      Feb 24, 2009 at 1:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @sheena:

      And I suppose that no one with that last name is muslim. False. Ass. Further, there aren’t any hindu homophobes? It’s not illegal in India to be gay?

      Feb 24, 2009 at 4:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • joe shmoe
      joe shmoe

      In response to all that bs from the supposed parent. I dont know why you keep calling the video extremley homophobic, it as absolutley rediculous. I being friends with these kids happen to watch that video a number of times, and there wasnt even a single slur aimed at gays or the gay community, so why this is even a blog on some gay chat room or whatever you call this shit.. Do you really think this is how you should go about getting your play back is by starting abunch of false rumors about these kids. This should never even have been up here in the first place, all of you people who have claimed to watch the video should really remeber if you heard a slur towards gays. And whoever wrote this article in the first place, maybe you should get your facts straight idiot. This girl is not a lesbian nor ever was one, trust me, everyone who attends cdmhs im sure they could tell you that. So to say the video was aimed to target her for the sole reason that she was a lesbian is the most bullshit thing i have ever heard. Thanks for your time just trying to get all the facts straight. Isnt the real thing you all are pissed about is the canceling of the play, then why don’t you go back and talk shit on fal who is the real villian here instead of a bunch of innocent teenagers who fucked up one night and made a stupid mistake. Im sure you all have made stupid mistakes. Oh yeah and one more thing, only one kid in this video was a streaker not all of them, another bullshit thing you through out in the article.

      Feb 24, 2009 at 8:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Arlen Rothberg
      Arlen Rothberg

      Conversely may I ask if this Principal was strongly heterophobic would he be just as vilified?

      Feb 25, 2009 at 4:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AladinSane
      AladinSane

      I strongly doubt he’d even have a job if he were heterophobic so I’d say yes.

      Feb 25, 2009 at 4:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sebbe
      Sebbe

      @Arlene Rothberg – one would hope so.

      Feb 25, 2009 at 7:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Arlen Rothberg
      Arlen Rothberg

      @Aladinsane&@Sebbe Point taken

      Feb 26, 2009 at 12:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • C. Reynolds
      C. Reynolds

      I’d love to get the names and addresses of these assholes and kick their collective asses. I’m Straight and pissed off!

      Mar 19, 2009 at 2:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thug Killer
      Thug Killer

      @joe shmoe: The facts are you and your friends are Cretin asshole Jocks who harass and intimidate people. You’re probably closet homosexuals too! Your parents should kick the shit out you.

      Mar 19, 2009 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Friend
      Friend

      Look, this article and other articles posted by the LA and NY Times are blowing the Facebook video out of proportion. The video was supposed to be a video making fun of Facebook video posters, and in no way was threatening to the girl, who is a friend to the boys, or to the gay community.

      Many of the facts in this article, comments and others are false. I know all of the boys in this video personally, I can vouch that they are not homophobic nor will they ever consider raping or murdering anyone.

      And another point… What right does the school have to suspend its students for something they posted on Facebook? Absolutley ridiculous.

      Fal Asrani is at fault here. Her radical views against gays and sexuality need to be taken somewhere else. She doesnt deserve to keep her job as principal at Corona del Mar.

      The media is at fault here. People need to get their facts right before they start rumors. Rumors like this can be detrimental to innocent kids and a well respected high school.

      Mar 19, 2009 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Friend
      Friend

      @Student: Well said… this is exactly true.

      Mar 19, 2009 at 4:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Who Cares
      Who Cares

      Homosexuals need to get over themselves.. No one really cares if you are a girl who likes girls or a dude who likes pounding dudes… just do your own thing and we can do our own thing.

      This video was meant for their friend as a joke, not as a public statement to reflect the views of an entire community (gay and local).

      Mind your own business and we’ll mind our own too.

      Also, FUCK you FAL ASRANI. You’re a sexist and racist bitch.

      Mar 19, 2009 at 4:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Who Cares
      Who Cares

      @Ali: The girl referenced in the video is not lesbian… this Queerty needds to get its facts right before posting an article as controversial as this

      Mar 19, 2009 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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