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This Vanderbilt Muslim Chaplain Says He Supports Executing Gays. Why Is the University Keeping Him?

Does believing that gays should be put to death qualify as a religious freedom? If you’re not actually murdering these people, we’d say yes. Believe whatever the hell you want to believe, crazy persons; that’s your right here in America. But it probably doesn’t make students at Vanderbilt University feel any better about Awadh A. Binhazim, the Kenyan-born University Muslim Chaplain, who just told students he supported this Islamic belief.

Asked by student Devin Saucier whether, as a practicing Muslim, he accepts this alleged Muslim requirement, Binhazim responded that he “doesn’t have a choice” on which teachings to accept. But hey, there are still a long list of requirements to actually put the fag to death, like whether there are witnesses to his buggery. So it’s, like, hard to kill them homos.

All of which has Vanderbilt racing to distance itself from Binhazim: “Vanderbilt University is dedicated to a policy of non-discrimination on the basis of race or sexuality,” the school says in a statement. “Awadh A. Binhazim is not and has never been a Vanderbilt employee, and is not paid by the university. He is the university’s Muslim chaplain under a working agreement that is similar to those signed with chaplains of other faiths at Vanderbilt. This working agreement requires Binhazim to observe Vanderbilt rules, including its non-discriminatory policies. Vanderbilt does not limit the free speech of its students, faculty, staff or its chaplains in any way.”

Not limiting the free speech of its chaplains is a fantastic policy, and one we support at any school. But what would happen if a visiting chaplain came along and said his religion called for the extermination of Jews? Would Vanderbilt be letting him return to campus?

By:           editor editor
On:           Feb 1, 2010
Tagged: , , ,
  • 67 Comments
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      someone is itching for a one way ticket to some conservative Muslim country,i say Afghanistan.the guy is basically begging,someone have a heart!!lets see him cry his way outta that “i dont wanna goooooo!!!”lol

      Feb 1, 2010 at 2:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      …replace him with some gay person in one of those hell holes

      Feb 1, 2010 at 2:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Looks like Vanderbilt has a serious problem, even if he’s not their employee. They need to solve it.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 2:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Since when is Vanderbilt so naive? Or is it bigoted?’The Muslim Chaplain can be replaced. Problem is, can Vanderbilt find someone more moderate — and do they even care?

      I bet if a major Vanderbugger donor made a stink, there would be a new Muslim chaplain in a bigger hurry. Just a guess.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Free Speech vs. Hate Speech. The problem is, if he advocates the murder of another group, he is advocating violence against them. That isn’t covered under religeous freedom. There are limits, the same way that people cannot smoke pot or take peyote even if it is part of their religeon.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 2:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • james_cambrdige
      james_cambrdige

      i’m all for free speech. but for once, queerty is right. if he was advocating the murder of all jews, he would be out on his ass. there are all kinds of double standards when it comes to who gets a pass and who doesn’t…

      all this muslim hatred for gays is hilarious because all muslim men do is engage in homosexual activity because of the strict segregation between muslim men and women. and i mean all muslim men….they get their rocks off with other men but no, they’re not gay at all. freaks!!

      Feb 1, 2010 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jason
      Jason

      I don’t classify Islam as a religion. It has all the look and feel of a cult. Cult’s do not receive protections under the first amendment.

      Islam worships a murdering child molester. They use their religion to advocate the death of anyone not a muslim. They brainwash their younger members into committing suicide to kill infidels (non-muslims). This is actually endorsed by the writings of their prophet; the murdering child molester. You cannot leave the cult without facing death.

      I can see a day that Islam is outlawed in Western Europe first and later the U.S. It would be a lot easier in England; they don’t have that pesky First Amendment. Until they can enter at least the 19th century they need to be kept at a distance from normal civilized society.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 3:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Scott Ros
      Scott Ros

      Drum the sick bastard off the campus, get him to the eastern seaboard, stick him on a raft and then shove him off into the Atlantic. There are certain demented points of view we should not even have to confront. What country is he from, and why is he permitted to continue living here? Holland, sensitive to the rights of its gay citizens, gives those wanting to immigrate in specific screenings, saying it is a tolerant society and that if the immigrant can’t be tolerant of gay people also, he/she should not move to Holland. Flush this piece of shit down the nearest toilet.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      Great… so the response to this Muslim man’s apparent homophobia is just blatant Islamophobia.

      Islam is no more inherently violent than Christianity. Indeed, Christianity has done plenty of violence to LGBT people, as well as non-Christians, and even many self-proclaimed Christians. There are many instances in scripture which call for the death of non-believers, heretics, blasphemers, adulterers, sinners of all kinds… and yes, men who have sex with other men.

      But the vast majority of modern Christians recognize the redemptive value of the gospel without needing to follow the “letter of the law.” And some Christians, myself included, see the redemptive portion of the gospel as including the celebration, affirmation, and salvation of people of all sexual orientations and gender identities.

      The fact that many Muslims, and particularly many vocal Muslims, still value the “letter of the law” of the Qur’an over the merciful and transcendent nature of Allah does not mean that Islam is a cult, or that it is any more inherently violent than any other religion, or that it should be outlawed.

      Condemn this man for his homophobia. But when you paint with so broad a brush about all of Islam, you not only sink the LGBT community’s chances of ever making inroads with mainstream Islam, but you also sever our connections with our Islamic LGBT brothers and sisters who are ostracized from both sides.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Drake
      Drake

      What a volatile, ugly combination- the American South, and Islam. Vanderbilt is in Nashville, the birthplace of the Ku Klux Klan. There is an immense monument to the Klan founder, Nathan Bedford Forrest on the interstate highway, on the south side of Nashville, on the way to the airport. It is illuminated at night, and has confederate flags around it. He is on horseback. In Tennessee alone, there are at least 32 monuments to him still standing TODAY !!!!! At some universities in Tennessee, buildings are named after him. All this hate is called “our traditions” in the South.
      Vanderbilt is trying to pretend that it is so above all this, with academic freedom, etc. They better get this cleric off campus permanently, or else risk being exposed as the reactionary southern bastion that most of Tennessee is. They can say that the cleric must stay off campus, and that hate speech and violence against any members of the community may not be defended as “religion”. There are plenty of court cases to back this position.
      Why are the so-called “reasonable” or “moderate” moslem voices always so quite or non-existent when these incidents occur???????

      Feb 1, 2010 at 3:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • greta
      greta

      i was just researching vanderbuilt yesterday and thought to myself, well golly, what a fine research university….still think that way, but am shocked, or not i guess i mean religion happens right?, to find this out.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 3:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ritorna
      Ritorna

      Well there you go. That’s what happens when you base everything on a book that someone wrote. You wind up having to take a position like gay people must die. Of course this guy may already feel that way without having a book to blame it on.

      It’s just amusing to me to see everyone scrambling to justify things based on rule books, or other people’s teachings. How about looking inside yourself to see if you still have the ability do discern the difference between right and wrong?

      Feb 1, 2010 at 3:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      No. 9 · Ben said….
      Great… so the response to this Muslim man’s apparent homophobia is just blatant Islamophobia.

      Islam is no more inherently violent than Christianity. Indeed, Christianity has done plenty of violence to LGBT people, as well as non-Christians, and even many self-proclaimed Christians. There are many instances in scripture which call for the death of non-believers, heretics, blasphemers, adulterers, sinners of all kinds… and yes, men who have sex with other men.

      But the vast majority of modern Christians recognize the redemptive value of the gospel without needing to follow the “letter of the law.”
      ________________________________________

      That is true Ben, however, I think people’s problem is that you never see large groups of adhearents to Islam coming out and saying the same thing. Hence the problem. Additionally, there is nothing that is being said about Islam that hasn’t been said about Mormonism or the Current drift of the Catholic church. This isn’t some sort of phobia being screeched by people with no understanding of the world. This is the response of an embattled minority that is seeing the worlds second most numerous religeon call for our deaths, with no public speech from any members calling for the clerics to tone down this rhetoric.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 3:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Xtian99
      Xtian99

      This is what happens when intellectually stunted and needy automatons meet the real world…clash of indeology, reason vs. blind adherence, thinking vs. “just tell me wha t to do…”

      This is what happens when 3rd world meets first…they are out of their element and must cling blindly to their outdated faith that keeps them perpetually locked outside

      This is exactly how their own leaders have kept them imprisoned, uneducated, backwards for centuries while they profited off of them- their own people rely on their weakness to exploit them, yet we – out of mis-placed guilt for a little racial profiling required to prevent theirlitte airline antics – feel the need to give them equal status in our society, when in fact they are not equal. They are not secular, enlightended or intellectual, and are not interested in being any of those things.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • nikko
      nikko

      Unbelievable. How can people sit quietly and hear such vile beliefs?! How would heterosexuals feel if their sexuality was considered a sin/crime? Disgusting. That this is even a point of debate offends me to my core being.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 9 · Ben wrote, “Condemn this man for his homophobia.” … he was being set up. It’s not clear that he is personally homophobic, but his religion includes beliefs that are. He tried his best to deflect the question, which is an indication that he was not personally comfortable with some Islamic laws, but can’t disown them while acting as a Muslim authority of some sort. In particular, he was trying to wiggle out of it by claiming that no country currently follows Islamic laws 100%.

      I don’t think he was advocating taking matters into your own hands or changing U.S. laws.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlwaysGay
      AlwaysGay

      Belief system or no belief system he would still believe this. Anti-gay bigotry is created and perpetuated by heterosexuals. The study “The Gender Belief System, Authoritarianism, Social Dominance Orientation, and Heterosexuals’ Attitudes Toward Lesbians and Gay Men” explains it all.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      @nikko:

      In many religious traditions, sexuality of ALL kinds is considered shameful and sinful. Consider the views on sexuality of St. Paul or Augustine, two of Christianity’s biggest influences. That kind of sexual self hatred and denial only leads to further projection and vilification of others.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • guest01
      guest01

      In defense of Vanderbilt,

      first, let me say that as a person who has received an education from Vanderbilt, I find the school, its student body, and its surrounding neighborhoods pretty darn welcoming to LGBT.

      second, the argument that Vanderbilt, a private institution, should dismiss an affiliation with a certain religious chaplain based on his allegiance to his religion is pretty stupid. That’s simply what it was–nothing more, nothing less. He was far from calling for the extermination of gays, and, frankly, it would be tough to find a more thoughtful muslim chaplain. So then you suggest we dismiss the chaplain altogether and further isolate the muslim group of future students that could stand to gain a good deal of perspective from a Vanderbilt education. I’m not so sure about that

      third, Devin Saucier, the guy who proposed the question, was quoted in the school newspaper saying, “I knew it would be ripe grounds for me to expose the gullibility of leftists who grovel at the altars of tolerance and acceptance.” He’s also heavily involved in the Vanderbilt chapter of Youths for Western Civilization. He’s really strange. The gay community asks for tolerance but chooses to side with this guy? That’s too bad.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Vanderbilt needs to remove this fundamentalist fanatic.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 5:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      @james_cambrdige: Check out the monring goods from today. Our friend Michael is back, picking on a 15 year old!

      Feb 1, 2010 at 5:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      I really don’t understand what you people are fussing about, why you’re all so surprised.

      Islam is a book based religion and is most definitely not a Pic n’ Mix religion. You have to take the whole or nothing at all. This man is correct in what he says: Islam says gays have to be put to death. There can be no questioning or reasoning with this.

      If you know muslims who say otherwise then they are not proper muslims.

      Now, Ben, you are SO fucking wrong! And you are so wrong that it makes me larf !

      Thing is, Ben, I can see where you’re coming from, you want to be nice and liberal and multi-cultural and inclusive and all that, all the nice things about western culture. But with islam it just won’t work.

      Unless you change your mind, Ben, then I am afraid, as the muslims say, Islam will conquer the earth.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"
      Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

      Religion sure has some pretty fucked up ideas about morality.

      Fundamentalist Christians in Uganda and the US, and around the world, are debating between a gay holocaust and a gay apartheid. Pathetically, they ignore the Golden Rule and the 5th (Catholics/Lutherans) or 6th (Anglicans/Protestants) Commandment, Thou shalt not kill.

      And following the Catholics/Christians centuries’ lead of killing off non-believers/unfaithful, Muslims also disregard Mohammed’s requirement to protect infidels from harm, for as infidels, they do not know their sin.

      Of course here in America, the founding fathers’ doctrine of Manifest Destiny gave them the justification, that, by God’s own word, to slaughter millions upon millions of American Indians. The Spanish Conquistadors too slaughtered millions upon million of South American Indians and Inca for their Most Catholic Majesty.

      I believe in God; I do not believe in religion.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 6:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Victor
      Victor

      @Ben: Christians don’t fly planes into buildings.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 6:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      Mike in Asheville, nee “in Brooklyn” – says: I believe in God…

      Mike, is this the same god who gave Haiti a damned good shaking recently?

      Is he a compassionate god?

      Or, is he, as the evidence would appear to suggest, a nasty piece of work?

      Feb 1, 2010 at 6:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jadis
      Jadis

      “Christians don’t fly planes into buildings.”

      No, they just fire missiles into wedding parties.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 6:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Disgusted American
      Disgusted American

      religion is the Poison of Mankind,and the Killer of the Human Imagination! No SKY GOD, He,She,It…entity,whatever….doesn’t cares/gives a ratz behind what us Puney Humans do with our hoo-hoos and pee-pees…..its Man-made BS to Keep the Sheeple in Line,and the Coffers Full $$$$ chk this sout on Youtube, we humans are NOt that Important!

      Feb 1, 2010 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      No. 23 · Mike in Asheville, nee “in Brooklyn”

      “I believe in God; I do not believe in religion”: words to live by, well said. Pretty sure that one of two wars in the history of mankind have had their origins in some kind of religions issue……….

      Feb 1, 2010 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"
      Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

      @No. 25 Tallskin

      Fair question considering my post. So, this is just me and my thoughts:

      God is the Universe, from Big Bang to the now. Imagine the creation of the Universe; per Big Bang, a singular particle (much much smaller than a single electron) of such pure energy, that, at the event of Big Bang, converts into the subatomic parts that become each and every proton, electron and neutron of each and every star, planet, comet, mountain, drop of water, hair, drop of blood, blade of grass, EVERYTHING.

      I do not belittle the accomplishment of the creation of the Universe by assigning to that creation human characteristics.

      The creation of the Universe is also the evolution of the Universe, and the evolution of all the components within the Universe. The very nature of the Universe is the conversion of one into another. An astroid striking the Earth wiped out the dinosaurs; today we burn the carbon residue of the dinosaur fossils as fuel. New life sprung from the ruins. To the dinosaurs, it was fucked.

      Earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, fires, mudslides: natural events that strike without regard to religion or faith, wealth or poverty, or strength or weakness. Unbeknownst to most, the Earth is moving into its next ice age. For us, not a dire problem as its effects will not be detrimental for about 10,000 years. But, if man, not God, fails to take appropriate action in a timely manner, well most of the human race will die off. Of course, when the ice age ebbs again, new opportunities for new life will abound.

      In the physical realm of our planet and Universe, God is neither compassionate nor a dirty piece of work. Those are human characteristics that apply to humans. The sad events in Haiti show that some humans are very compassionate and some are very dirty pieces of work.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 7:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      Mike in Asheville, nee “in Brooklyn”

      well, nice wording. But all you’ve given really is a metaphor for the unexplainable

      Unexplainable at the moment, that is. Judging by the speed of scientific research over the past 200 or so years I’d imagine we’ll have an explanation – a scientific explanation that is – quite soon.

      Think back to the pre-scientific age and the explanations offered for natural events. Zeus threw down thunderbolts. God created the world and all animals in 6 days. Neptune controlled the ocean’s tides.

      One by one science has offered explanations for the formation and running of the universe

      There’s really no need to revert to primitive thoughts of a creator god just because the scale of the universe causes awe.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 8:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      A human trying to genuinely understand G.O.D. makes as much sense as a goldfish truely understanding astrophysics.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 8:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      What a dumb fuck. ALL Moslem mullahs are gay. Islamic literature is full of homosexuality. FIRE this idiot!!

      Feb 1, 2010 at 8:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      I will believe in any god who can get rid of these goddamn St. Lucia pop up ads.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 8:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Christian Young
      Christian Young

      Umm, devout Muslim = homophobe…exactly why is this news?

      As far as Vanderbilt’s role I think that our community needs a reality check and remember that tolerance isn’t a one-way street; you have to give it to receive it and what we fight for is not to end the hate (that’s a nice fantasy, but not realistic) but rather an inclusive society, where the freedom of others to live according to their own values is respected. I think that academic instituions should strive to provide an introduction to as many different value and belief systems as possible, if for no other reason than to demonstrate the differences that exist in our world and encourage people to question what they’ve already learned.

      Condemning Vanderbilt for attempting to do that is not only close minded, but naive…especially if that fantasy is ever going to have a shot at being reality.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles Merrill
      Charles Merrill

      Can’t blame this on politically correct black trustees of the University. Vanderbilt has l black trustee and 49 white trustees. It’s the home of country music. Christian red necks. Surprising there is a even one Muslim in their midst.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 9:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mch
      mch

      @Tallskin: I agree with you Tallskin. Ben is wrong. Ever heard of Wahhabism, Ben? Most Muslims are Sunni or Shi’a. The way men in Egypt for example treat women is deplorable. Iran is probably the more enlightened of those countries, and they’re having a quiet revolution right now so to speak. Hopefully, one day democracy can work for the whole world. Until then, we don’t need people advocating the killing of minorities, whoever they may be, simply because of their religious beliefs. This is fanaticism at its sickest and most dangerous. The ends do not justify the means, ever. I just can’t believe how backwards we seem to be going at times.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 9:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Keith Kimmel
      Keith Kimmel

      “Does believing that gays should be put to death qualify as a religious freedom?”

      Yes.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 9:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      He is free to believe what he wants, so long as he does not act to do anything that is actually illegal.

      But, he needs to be very careful. There are laws against inciting violence or crime, recruiting or inciting terrorists, contracting for (various things), contributing to (various things), conspiracy to (various things). By acting on his beliefs, he could easily break some of those other laws.

      Most people break at least one law each day, unintentionally. If the FBI sends a team to watch this guy, I expect they could find something in just a few days.

      From the corporate perspective — he is a liability. If he is not tenured faculty, he should be fired ASAP. If he is tenured, they need to have a serious talk in the faculty conference, perhaps with the university lawyers.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 10:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 22 · Tallskin: “I really don’t understand what you people are fussing about, why you’re all so surprised. Islam is a book based religion and is most definitely not a Pic n’ Mix religion. You have to take the whole or nothing at all. This man is correct in what he says: Islam says gays have to be put to death. There can be no questioning or reasoning with this.”

      Read http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/islam.htm – there is a little bit of wiggle room, particularly regarding private versus public behavior.

      BTW, Awadh A. Binhazim clearly indicated that he was talking about Muslim beliefs in response to a question asking about that specifically, not giving his own personal opinion. The vitriol
      directed at him personally seems a bit over the top given that he was responding reluctantly to a question (the questioner had to ask him several times to get a “yes/no” answer out of him).

      At the end of the video, they repeated the question and answer, editing the answer to be as short as possible, and also showed it in text. This is a standard technique for getting the viewer to remember that part in particular after the rest fades out among all the other distractions in everyday life.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 11:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AL
      AL

      Interesting. If this man was Christian, all the queers would rally to condemn him as a prime example of Christian bigotry and ignorance. Also, you would demand him to be fired.

      But he’s a Muslim (a religion of peace, right? victim of American imperialism, right?). Is there any criticism of him? Not so much. It’s perfectly acceptable for him to say such vile things. Maybe he should get an award for advancing free speech. Some queers even side with him. Perhaps, he should become the Chairman of HRC. Or he should be nominated for the position of diversity adviser at the White House. Yeh, lets applaud to the newly identified champion of gay rights!

      Do you see where it’s going? The double standards exhibited in the comments are appalling. Your political correctness is a mental disorder. That’s disgusting! DISGUSTING!

      Feb 1, 2010 at 11:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sam
      sam

      Sharia law does not come directly from God. Many Muslims who actually study it know it’s the law jurists have made in their interpretation of Islam.

      I wish many Sheiks would understand that. Sharia law is man’s law. As in, it can be changed. Many of the laws contradict each other. Forgiveness for murder, but stoning for adultery?

      As for Jason, I can see you think of this religion as a cult. But most Muslims aren’t hateful, and don’t care to blow people up or have any ill will towards gay. They just wanna pray 5 times a day in piece. It’s just like Christianity in that it has many of the same stories like Noah’s arc, and it can be interpreted differently by different people.

      They way you condemn it as a cult, I hope you feel the same way about Judaism and Christianity. If you do, great! Equal opportunity.

      I just hope ppl realize making all Muslims look like cult members is rather futile. It’s the fastest growing religion, and the more people follow it than any other religion. It’s not going away. Your boss may be one! I’m not.

      Feb 1, 2010 at 11:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zach
      Zach

      He sounds like the good “Christians” who use god to support their hatred and bigotry.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 1:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      “Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst.” Thomas Paine – Revolutionist – England, the United States, France – February 9, 1737 – June 8, 1809

      Serious christers, islamists and judaeists are, for the most part, extremely violent homohaters. Their violent intentions differ not in their degree of hatred or the level of violence they’d like to inflict on us but in their ability to inflict violence.

      There has yet to be an equivalent of the French Revolution in islamic countries with its cleansing use of the guillotine to clam the abuses of clerical monsters.

      Increasing industrialization and mass education will create the political layers in islamic countries that will produce powerful revolutionary democratic movements. The growth of decidedly anti-American and socialist petro workers unions in Iraq and the recent pro democracy anti-clerical upsurge in Iran are a taste of what’s to come.

      As for some of the comments here they demonstrate the continue influence of racism and islamophobia in American society. Jason in No. 7 tells us that “Islam worships a murdering child molester”, stupidly confusing the islamic sky pixie, allah, with the shyster Muhammad. And conveniently forgetting the thousands of priests, pastors and rabbis’ convicted of child rape recently.

      The injection of racist ideas that claim that all people living in muslim cultures are as homophobic as the killer ayatollahs is as silly as saying the all Italians follow the guidance of der papenfueher.

      If we are going to attack islamic bigots for their murderous jihads against our brothers and sisters racism and support for American imperial oil piracies have to excluded from the debate and left in the gutter where they belong

      Feb 2, 2010 at 1:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 40 · AL: “Interesting. If this man was Christian, all the queers would rally to condemn him as a prime example of Christian bigotry and ignorance. Also, you would demand him to be fired.”

      …. nope – if a Christian said, “the position of the Catholic Church is X” (because the Pope said it is X), nobody should demand that he be fired – he’s stating a fact. That doesn’t mean the Catholic Church (specifically its pope) is right.

      Also, the URL I cited above stated, “A related problem to full enforcement of the laws against homosexuality is that while the sexes are often segregated, men are encouraged to developed close friendships with other men, and women are encouraged to develop close friendships with other women. Also, the Islamic law requires a certain number of male and female witnesses to the homosexual act to testify in court. Islam does place a strong value on the right to privacy in the home and thus homosexual relations that occur in private are theoretically outside the bounds of the law, although that is more theory then reality.”

      And “Some self-described liberal Muslims accept and consider homosexuality as natural, regarding these verses as either obsolete in the context of modern society, or point out that the Qu’ran speaks out against homosexual lust, and is silent on homosexual love. However, this position remains highly controversial even amongst liberal movements within Islam, and is considered completely beyond the pale by mainstream Islam.”

      Note: this suggests there is a possibility of progress. Given that it took the Catholic Church over 400 years to admit it made a mistake about Galileo, and using that as a rough estimate of how long it takes a religion to change some strongly-held beliefs, Islamic opinions of homosexuality may change over time, but I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 2:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • spindoc
      spindoc

      In the nation of Holland they were tolorating muslim attacks on gays women etc… until finally some folks pointed out that being tolorant of others intolerance, is NOT being tolerant, it is supporting their intolerance. That is the same thing here. If Vanderbuilt has a policy against bigotry and advocating violence, then they cannot have a chaplin there with these beliefs, period. If there was a Catholic Priest there saying that he believed in taking slaves because it was in the Bible they would not let him have that job.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 7:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dontblamemeivotedforhillary
      dontblamemeivotedforhillary

      There will come a time when Muslim people can only travel to and immigrate to other Muslim countries to keep the world a safer place if their beliefs are perceived as anti-western and anti-American. Home-grown Muslims will be instructed to emigrate to the country of their parents’ birth. This is harsh but the inevitable road to immigration reform when any group forms a militia against their host nation, especially in the name of religion.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 8:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles Merrill
      Charles Merrill

      @B: The so-called “radical Muslims” draw their sources in 14 centuries of Islamic history as well as hadiths and Muhammad the Prophet’s life that must be an example for Muslims. The Jihad is theologically correct. Osama bin Laden and this man that wants to see us dead is just being a good Muslim.
      Mohammed’s homo hatred words in Hadith, “Kill the one who is doing it, and kill the one it is being done to”. Mohammed was a jackass.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 8:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"
      Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

      @Tallskin:

      Well I have never claimed to be a theologian and I am hardly an astrophysicist. And I did preface that my post #28 were my thoughts.

      So, what metaphor? If anything, Genesis’ “Let there be light” and Islam’s Allah act of saying/willing “Be” are metaphors for Big Bang, a spark of pure energy from out of nothingness (that is the nothingness before the event horizon of Big Bang), into cosmic inflation that begins the transformation of energy into matter. Not in six days, as there was not a Sun/Earth calendar relationship for the first 10 billion years.

      Comparing the Big Bang theory of creation to Zeus, Genesis and Neptune is invalid faulty logic. That our predecessors 10,000 years ago began explaining the constructs of the Universe with mythological stories is hardly the same as the pain-staking observation, testing, retesting, and more and more retesting as plotting our ever expanding Universe back to its original core.

      I very much like the line from MIB (Men in Black): “1500 years ago everybody knew the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody knew the earth was flat. … Imagine what you’ll know tomorrow.” Of course mankind will learn more and more about the origins of the Universe and the origins of life. I will caution, however, that, by definition, it is not possible to see beyond the event horizon.

      And there will be the unfolding of the currently unknown relationship between matter and spirit. Through science, we know that that relationship exists; though human cells die, the atoms that make-up the cell do not. Indeed, many of those very same atoms reform to become the replacement cell.

      Lastly, while I certainly agree with your statement: There’s really no need to revert to primitive thoughts of a creator god just because the scale of the universe causes awe” I fail to see how that applies to my post.

      I know to many the thought of a kindly, understanding, compassionate “Grandfather” God, somewhat as depicted by Michelangelo in the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, is comforting. But, that God, in my opinion, is a monster. For only a monster would accept the fate that children are raped, slavery could and still does exist, hate and war mongering abound. But, to me, those are the failures of man, not the Universe.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 9:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sal(the original)
      sal(the original)

      @Ben: “Great… so the response to this Muslim man’s apparent homophobia is just blatant Islamophobia.”tell that to the MUSLIM gay CITIZENS of those countries who were EXECUTED over their sexuality,again i say replace him with one of those poor gay souls.it’s not like he(the homophobe) would argue over that?after all he will finally be living in a country that follows his views

      Feb 2, 2010 at 10:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ousslander
      ousslander

      If you said the same thing he did but substituted muslim for gay. The school would be going crazy to get him out. The government would and media would come down on you. Of course, apologists at CAIR would want charges pressed and probably be accommodated.

      Then there is the chance of being slaughtered like Van Gogh or forced to live in hiding like danish cartoonists

      Feb 2, 2010 at 12:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dionte
      Dionte

      People like this make me afraid to live on earth, they could be anywhere, a neighbor, after I die, I really hope I don’t come back here

      Feb 2, 2010 at 12:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • WiseUp
      WiseUp

      Vanderbilt is a politically-correct joke. If this guy was Caucasian he’d never have been hired.

      Feb 2, 2010 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eshto
      Eshto

      @Jason:

      “I don’t classify Islam as a religion. It has all the look and feel of a cult. Cult’s do not receive protections under the first amendment.”

      You’re a moron. The Bible says the same thing. It says men who lie with other men should be killed. Does that mean Christianity isn’t a religion either?

      Feb 2, 2010 at 6:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 46 · Charles Merrill : “@B: The so-called ‘radical Muslims”‘draw their sources in 14 centuries of Islamic history as well as hadiths and Muhammad the Prophet’s life that must be an example for Muslims.” … that’s the sort of thing that religious extremists always say, hence the Phelps people claiming more or less that everyone but them is headed for Hell.

      All or nearly all religious texts have some crazy parts in them that are quietly ignored by more sensible people in those religions.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 1:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 47 · Mike in Asheville, nee “in Brooklyn” : “Comparing the Big Bang theory of creation to Zeus, Genesis and Neptune is invalid faulty logic. That our predecessors 10,000 years ago began explaining the constructs of the Universe with mythological stories is hardly the same as the pain-staking observation, testing, retesting, and more and more retesting as plotting our ever expanding Universe back to its original core.”

      The original big bang model was a simplistic solution to Einsteins field equations (for gravity) assuming the universe was the same everywhere (uniform density of matter averaging over collections of galaxies). At the time there were no observations. The solution was so surprising that Einstein introduced a new term called the “cosmological constant” because everyone “knew” that the universe was unchanging. Then Hubble made some measurements showing it was in fact expanding, at which point the cosmological constant was dropped, with Einstein calling it a mistake. There were a number of other models as well, and it took some time to sort it all out, mostly because of needing better data.

      We now have a fair bit of data, but we didn’t a century ago, so I wouldn’t be all that hard on early mythological stories – they are merely early attempts at understanding our place in the Universe that failed, and you don’t make progress if you don’t try. It’s the people living today who believe that mythology is true merely because someone wrote it down thousands of years ago who are out of it.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 2:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles Merrill
      Charles Merrill

      @AL: HRC and their “faith based” bureaucratic Pastor Harry Knox ($80,000 HRC salary) is cold oatmeal when it comes to being critical of other religions. You know the Christian mantra, “Turn the other cheek” and “Jesus is protecting us”.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 9:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Charles Merrill
      Charles Merrill

      @B: The “Phelps people” are not flying airplanes into buildings. They are civilized under democratic civil law. Sharia law and the Jihad is not civilized.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 9:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"
      Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

      @53 B

      Good points, thank you. I did say that comparing “mythological stories is hardly the same as the pain-staking observation, testing, retesting, and more and more retesting as plotting our ever expanding Universe back to its original core.” And by the pain-staking observation, test… I was referring to the points you made about Einstein, Hubble and many others.

      ***********************

      A point about the severe criticism of Islam compared to Christianity, sounds an awful lot “the pot calling the kettle black” scenario. [Is “pot calling kettle black” racist?] After all, 9 times did Christian/Catholic nations crusade into the Middle East, raining death, rape and pillage on Muslims, Saracens, and Arabs.

      Lets not forget the other millions put to death during the Inquisitions, the internal Crusades against the Cathars, against women, and the bloody wars between the Roman Catholics and the breakaway followers of Martin Luther. The Christian Manifest Destiny, in the American colonies and future US, gave “Godly” cover for the murder of 10+ million American Indians; the 16th-19th century slave runners were Christians; and the Christian repression against European Jews provided Germany with the ability to inflict the Holocaust. And even just a few decades ago, white Christians were using their religion and Bible to continue repressing African-Americans with bloody police back lynchings, beating, and terrorism. Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, and their colleagues all preached for violent disobedience against desegregation, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and the Voting Rights Act.

      The genuine fear for us between the difference of the vile actions of extremist Christians/Catholics over the centuries and today’s extremist Muslims, is that in today’s world, the ability to quickly and efficiently terrorize millions throughout the world is cheap and easy and the ability to murder millions with WMDs is achievable. It took Christians/Catholics 2000 years to inflict their actions against non-believers; it can take but a few years/decades for extremist Muslims to achieve even greater destruction against the infidels.

      And of course, the world is still not free from extremist Christians and Catholics who, even today, as regularly reported here on Queerty, plot and plan actions of a gay holocaust (Christian Ugandans executing gays) and gay apartheid (imprison gays until we turn straight, and if that fails, execution).

      Irrespective of the morality of such action, the ability to wipe out the 1.2-1.5 billion Muslims around the globe, would be an absurd undertaking. In 8 years, with our TRILLION dollar war machine, and we are nowhere near succeeding against less than the 200 million strong Iraq + Pakistan + Afghanistan. Strong vigilance defending against Muslim extremists will be required until Islamic reformers, as the Christian/Catholic reformers during the past 100 years, succeed to bringing a stronger global harmony. What is shockingly enlightening is that a Muslim chaplain at an august American university takes stock with the extremists and not the reformers. Many dark days ahead.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 10:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      No. 56 · Mike in Asheville, nee “in Brooklyn”
      @53 B

      Good points, thank you. I did say that comparing “mythological stories is hardly the same as the pain-staking observation, testing, retesting, and more and more retesting as plotting our ever expanding Universe back to its original core.” And by the pain-staking observation, test… I was referring to the points you made about Einstein, Hubble and many others.

      ***********************

      A point about the severe criticism of Islam compared to Christianity, sounds an awful lot “the pot calling the kettle black” scenario. [Is “pot calling kettle black” racist?] After all, 9 times did Christian/Catholic nations crusade into the Middle East, raining death, rape and pillage on Muslims, Saracens, and Arabs.
      ________________

      Is that a joke? You’re trying to put today’s events in context because a thousand years ago crusaders went into Turkey and the Holy land? Is that really what you are trying to do? Ok fine, then lets go back a few years earlier. Why did the crusaders move in? Because in 1076 Muslim armies invaded Jerusalem. The Christian countries responded. So I’m curious, you’re saying that poor mistreated Islam should be coddled and babied because a thousand years ago Some Christian nations in Europe were discourteous enough to respond to a Mulim army invading Jerusalem? This is ridiculous. If everybody went back a thousand years we could all find plenty of grievences to bitch about.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 12:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"
      Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"

      @No. 57 Cam

      NO, NO, NO, I am not arguing whatsoever that militant or extremist Muslims should be coddled or babied.

      Indeed, I warned “The genuine fear for us … [is that] extremist Muslims [have] the ability to quickly and efficiently terrorize millions throughout the world … and the ability to murder millions with WMDs is achievable…[I]t can take but a few years/decades for extremist Muslims to achieve even greater destruction [than all the destruction Christian/Catholic wars of the past 2000 years] against the infidels.

      I also closed with the sad realization that “a Muslim chaplain at an august American university takes stock with the extremists and not the reformers. Many dark days ahead.”

      ********************************

      My point of comparing the history of violence, hatred and war committed by Christians/Catholics and by Muslims, is intended to for all to gain a greater perception of the actual immorality embraced by these religions. In a prior post, someone comments that “Christian don’t fly planes into buildings.” Well, not on 9/11/01. But Christians in Uganda, TODAY, are working on plans to execute ME; Christians in the US want to arrest ME, because the love of my life is a man.

      A major problem among the American culture is a separation of ignorance we apply to our checkered past. And because of that, most American lack compassion for the toils of others around the world. Balzac’s great line “Behind every great fortune there is a great crime” is an accurate assessment of American history, but a history we hardly learn about in primary/secondary education. We fail to take ourselves, and our heritage, to account for the murder of the millions of American Indians, as they were, “savages.” White America hardly gives any understanding nor empathy for the enslavement of Africans and the essential enslavement of Chinese.

      And what our heritage did at home in the 17th-19th centuries, we continued off shore in the 20th century. America as a culture, continues to take from others that which we want for ourselves.

      And as so many American Christian leaders point out all so regularly, that our nation is a Christian nation, it is, by a vast majority, a Christian initiative that pushes through the treatment of others by our country.

      ***********************

      The struggle America and the non-Muslim world faces against Muslim extremists is real and dangerous. To take effective action, both offensively and defensively, we need to understand our own history, through honest vision, to be able to make our efforts effective.

      The past 7 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan have been disastrous from any measure. The original $20 billion, 18 month, multi-national effort has turned into a TRILLION dollar effort, 7 years and counting, and, except for Britain, we are basically on our own. Most all reports suggest that our gross mismanagement of the situation has been usurped by the very Muslim extremist terrorists we fight allowing them to gain greater footholds for themselves.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 4:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      @Victor:

      No… they don’t fly planes into buildings. They sit around and do nothing while a Holocaust happens, hell, many of them ACTIVELY PARTICIPATE in the Holocaust against Jews, gays, the mentally handicapped, Roma… they engage in the attempted “ethnic cleansing” aka “genocide” of the Bosnian Muslims, they conduct a war on a foreign country based on false evidence (that would be the Iraq War cheered on by so many self-proclaimed Christian fundamentalists), in many countries they still threaten with death people who choose to have sex with people of the same gender.

      If you want to compare the number of lives taken and/or ruined by Christianity and Islam, Christianity is still leagues ahead of Islam by any count.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 5:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      P.S. I am also not saying that militant Islamists should be tolerated or accepted. I am not saying that terrorism of any kind, whether it is committed for religious reasons or not, should be accepted or condoned. But there are millions of perfectly peaceful Muslims in the world, many of them living in our own neighborhoods, who would never raise a hand to harm a gay person or anyone else, regardless of what their holy book tells them or what they personally believe.

      But to hear members of the LGBT community condemn all of Islam as though all Muslims are exactly the same and think exactly the same thing is disgusting. It’s little wonder that LGBT people of color and LGBT people of a non-Christian religious background find so little to love in America’s extremely white-dominated, upper-class, strangely Christo-centric LGBT “community.”

      Feb 3, 2010 at 5:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben
      Ben

      @ Victor, again
      I guess I forgot to mention that you don’t see many Muslims walking into churches and shooting abortion doctors in the head.

      Feb 3, 2010 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      No. 58 · Mike in Asheville, nee “in Brooklyn”
      @No. 57 Cam

      My point of comparing the history of violence, hatred and war committed by Christians/Catholics and by Muslims, is intended to for all to gain a greater perception of the actual immorality embraced by these religions. In a prior post, someone comments that “Christian don’t fly planes into buildings.” Well, not on 9/11/01. But Christians in Uganda, TODAY, are working on plans to execute ME; Christians in the US want to arrest ME, because the love of my life is a man.
      ____________________________

      Mike, Gotcha, sorry for the misread!

      Feb 4, 2010 at 10:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Larry Slack
      Larry Slack

      My wife has been hit on the head, shot at and, burned by a Christian mother. Her father knew it happened, and left her alone with this woman. People can call themselves whatever they want, but you cannot trust a persons words. It is their actions or lack thereof, that will be the only way you can measure a person. Christians may not blow buildings up, but they may crash an infants head in and leave them for dead.

      Feb 12, 2010 at 9:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • moray watson
      moray watson

      a href=”#comment-265313″>Drake:

      Because there is no moderate Islam.

      Feb 17, 2010 at 11:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 13Zeroither
      13Zeroither

      Fuck religion. It needs to die. But it would take a miracle if someone had a huge army to overthrow the governments of the world to create a global culture suicide to start all over (in order to murder religion. Fuck it into the depths of time). In its place would be the new world with each country having its own unique food, clothes, language, culture, etc. BUT ALL of the countries in the new world will be not racist, sexist, and homophobic.
      A person can dream… :)

      Feb 11, 2012 at 7:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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