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Thousands Protest Prop 8 As Lawsuits Filed



Speaking of legal protest, an estimated 5,000 people gathered in West Hollywood last night to oppose Proposition 8. Though they were meant to stay on the sidewalks, the crowd broke onto the street and snarled traffic, but remained mostly peaceful throughout. Police did arrest a few rogue activists, including one who jumped on a police car.

It wasn’t just gays out on the street last night. Actress Rose McGowan made an appearance and Towleroad reports that Wanda Sykes came out to show some love. West Hollywood mayor Mayor Jeffrey Prang and a number of other politicians later took to a stage down the road and pledged their support to the movement. In addition, Councilman John Duran urged gays to work with other groups to achieve total unity. Sounds good to us!

Then, at the end, some gay-friendly Mormons led the group in song, which we hoped quelled some anti-Mormon attitudes, of which there was much – several protesters held signs against the church, which played a huge role in passing Proposition 8.

Protests aren’t the only action in California. Other same-sex supporters are taking the mater to the courts:

As soon as Prop. 8’s victory was assured, San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera and his counterparts from Los Angeles and Santa Clara County went to the state Supreme Court to try to invalidate it on the grounds that it conflicts with the equal protection pillars of the state Constitution.

“It goes to the heart of what the judiciary is supposed to do: To ensure that everyone is entitled to equal protection under the law,” Herrera said.

The ACLU, the National Center for Lesbian Rights and Lambda Legal and LA-based lawyer Gloria Allred also filed suits contending Proposition 8. The battle continues…

Here are some pictures sent over from The Lost Boy.

By:           Andrew Belonksy
On:           Nov 6, 2008
Tagged: , , , , , , ,
  • 162 Comments
    • chadnnocal
      chadnnocal

      Now that is something to applaud!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      http://www.cbs2.com/video/?id=82445@kcbs.dayport.com

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      Cue Churchill-y with a hatefilled post.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      DAMN! I was THIS close to being right! HAHA!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Looks great but, WEHO!? Protesting in WEHO that’s gonna make a statement. :?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      I think a lot of the posters here need to take heed to what John Duran said, as posted over at Towleroad.

      http://www.towleroad.com/2008/11/report-from-wes.html#more

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bobito
      bobito

      After a long cooldown time to breathe and think, here’s a couple of ideas:

      Every same-sex couple that got married in California is entitled to state reimbursement for any and all legal fees they paid for their marriage licenses, etc. With a good lawyer, they can probably sue for reimbursement of their wedding celebration bills, too. After all, they got married in good faith that their unions were legal and protected by the State, and celebrated those unions in good faith, which they certainly would not have done, had they known their marriages would be forcibly annulled within months. Every church that involved itself in this issue should be named as a co-defendant and we should begin exploring legal steps to have those churches’ tax-exempt status rescinded.

      The more it costs the State of California for this adventure in discrimination, the better. The more we can make people feel effects of this ill-advised attempt to disrupt what is inevitable, the sooner they will understand not to interfere with what should never have been their legal business in the first place. And they best place to make them feel it is in the wallets.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Also if history is any indication and from the looks at where they chose to march these showings of protest will soon wither away and will remain as just another spark that was put out quickly.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MEN-SAR
      MEN-SAR

      rose mcgowan is a dyke? thats news to me…

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Proptart
      Proptart

      At yesterday’s rally in West Hollywood, CA, the organizers mentioned another protest today. It will be held

      2:00 PM Thursday Nov. 6th
      Mormon Temple
      10777 Santa Monica Blvd.
      Los Angeles, CA 90025, at 2:00 p.m. Thursday Nov. 6th.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      @ No. 11 · Proptart:

      That’s great but please lets avoid protesting in:

      Baldwin Hills
      Baldwin Village
      Baldwin Vista
      Compton
      Crenshaw
      Crenshaw-Imperial
      Eastside
      Hyde Park
      Ladera Heights
      Leimert Park
      Morningside Park
      North Inglewood
      North Long Beach
      Newton
      Watts
      West Athens
      West Compton
      Westmont
      View Park-Windsor Hills

      WE DO NOT WANT TO OFFEND THIS PEOPLE!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 10:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ILOVEZ
      ILOVEZ

      I cannot still believe that bullsit passed. It is very upseting! So many sick people! FUCK YOU PROP 8!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 11:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      And one of the sickest people I’ve met is right here on Queerty: Cunt-hill. Instead of coming up with productive ways for all gays (including black gays) + all supporters (including thousands of black ones) to unite, he’s trying to race-bait + turn gays against blacks, as if the two are mutually exclusive.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 11:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      @Fredo777

      You are right he IS sick. Churchill-y is a troll. he has nothing better to do than troll these threads and inject his own brand of hate. he tries to be provacative, but it only comes of as a desperate plea for attention. i mostly am starting to feel bad for him.

      Best thing we can to is call him out for his BS…and call out all the ALTS he logs in under.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 11:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Keith
      Keith

      Why wasn’t any of it on CNN or MSNBC. It seems like there is a news blackout on it Prop 8. Rachel Maddow mentioned something about the Castro on election night but nothing about the protests last night. Maybe tonight

      Nov 6, 2008 at 11:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      I give up 777, you succeeded in wearing me down!

      You’re right, I made up this numbers showing how blacks overwhelmingly voted to discriminate against us in two states. I concocted it then I through my magical/awesome/influential powers over the media(who like Gay leaders don’t dare to say anything that might offend blacks, even when they are at fault)forced them into publicizing those numbers and the reactions of black people(specially women) who where more than happy to tell posters that they were voting to ban Marriage equality for Gay people.

      I made this whole shit up 777, YOU GOT ME!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 11:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      Churchill-y your argumnt might be valid if you had’t ben posting racist rap on queerty for months now. I applaud Fredo777 and others for calling you out.

      Now, please take your sorry a$$ back to the free republic and national revew websits with the rest of the race baitors.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 12:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • cmh
      cmh

      C-hilly is anyone willing to have sex with you? Because you might want to use that life line now.. seriously man you need to get some and it is showing.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Traffick
      Traffick

      Guys quit the fighting among yourselves, there are other groups that we can direct out hate towards.

      We need to be smart and organized. You need inform and demand from your state and federal that the IRS must take action against churches that broke rules regarding political discussions. You need to boycott companies that support groups that are against us.

      One tiny thing that all of us could do is writing the words “Gay Money” whenever we get new bills.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 12:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      Make an EXAMPLE of Utah and LDS church

      http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/Mormons1.jpg

      Nov 6, 2008 at 12:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • crazylove
      crazylove

      RE LOCATION OF THE RALLY

      The problem with the rally is that it was in the gay ghetto of WEHO. If you wanted to say people that this “affects my life” you walk through their neighborhoods to show your emotions. You don’t turn it into a celebration for celebrities.

      RE RACE

      Several states in 2004 passed antigay amendements. Including, Oklahoma, Oregon and Michigan.

      There is this numerical tidbit about Michigan, which allows us to test the “blacks are more homophobic than whites” argument.

      There is this:

      “When the anti-gay-marriage amendment passed here in Michigan, the black communities in and around Detroit pretty much reflected the same opinion as the rest of the state. Wayne county (Detroit mostly) voted 54% for the measure while statewide the winning total was 58%. Only the counties of the major universities voted against the homophobic measure. The black community is no more homophobic than the population as a whole (here in Michigan).”

      If you want to test whether homophobia is more prevalent in the African American by 70/30 percent as the exit polls suggest, then the way to do it is to see check voting patterns in the various districts to count up which way they voted on Prop 8. This number would actually be the real count rather than a faulty Exit Poll.

      THis again would require work on the gay community’s part, and would require something more than racist CW.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Cunt-hill, noone is disputing that many blacks voted for Prop 8, but there is also the fact that hundreds of thousands of blacks also voted against it.

      It is no less race-baiting than if you constantly posted stats about blacks who commit crimes, etc. It might be based on facts/numbers, etc., but there is still a biased + ugly intent to smear all of the black population based on the acts or views of some of the population.

      If you want to see people stop discriminating against + or pre-judging all gays based on the actions of some gays, maybe you should take some of your own medicine + stop trying to paint all of the black community with a broad brush.

      The bottom-line is this: some religious people (black + otherwise) don’t see gay marriage as morally right. They voted against it. Period. It isn’t a racial issue, but a religious one. Plenty of people in the black community are strongly religious. So, it only stands to reason that a higher percentage of them would vote in opposition to something that they feel goes against their religious beliefs.

      Is it right? No. Do I agree with it? Of course not.

      The point is, though, that not all black citizens voted in favor of gay marriage being banned + I’d go so far as to say that many of those who did could be persuaded over time to see things differently. We will not, however, make any progress as a gay community if we alienate a significant segment of the gay population (+ thousands of gay allies of color) by reducing this issue to a “gay vs. black” battle.

      I’ve said it before in no uncertain terms, + I’m afraid I’ll likely have to keep saying it until it gets through to a lot of people here. United we stand, + all that jazz.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 1:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JJJJ
      JJJJ

      I’m still glad Obama won, and I think him and his family will be a great reassurance to the individual African-Americans who deserve it. Still, though, knowing that African-Americans were the only ethnic group who voted at that high percentage for Prop 8 makes me glad they really are a minority. If AAs were the majority, gays (of any color) would have no rights at all. (But, yet again, we might see better things in the future. Young whites and Asians voted for us).

      Nov 6, 2008 at 1:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      You forget, 4J, that gay marriage was also banned in AZ (where about 4% of voters polled were black) + that millions of white voters also chose to ban gay marriage in AZ, Cali, + Florida.

      If you’re going to shun people based on the actions of other members of their respective race, that means you’ll also have to cast dirty looks at white Americans, as well.

      See how that works?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 1:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      Traffick,

      “the IRS must take action against churches that broke rules regarding political discussions.”

      Would you please cite the IRS regulation or any law that prohibits churches from engaging in “political discussions”?

      And by the same token, are we to take it you are in favor of “taking action” against churches that opposed Prop 8?

      Let me help you with the first question I posed…there are NO LAWS prohibiting churches from being politically active. They are at risk of losing their tax-exempt status under 501(c)(3) if they endorse political CANDIDATES, i.e. a person. There are no prohibitions against endorsing or opposing ballot initiatives.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 1:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vague
      Vague

      omg is that Anne Hathaway?!? Thx Anne!!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vague
      Vague

      there are NO LAWS prohibiting churches from being politically active.

      From http://www.azpolicy.org/pdf/churchescan.pdf

      However, the activity must not constitute more than an “insubstantial” part of a church’s overall activity, including time and money.

      1.4 million dollars from the Knights of Columbus sounds like pretty substantial money.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      Vague,

      Uh, you do realize that guide is saying what I’m saying, right? Let me repeat: A church can’t endorse a candidate. However, a church CAN, i.e. free to do so, endorse/oppose ballot initiatives.

      As for the Knights of Columbus…wow, $1.4 mil, eh? This a huge organization with almost 2 million members. In 2007 alone, they gave something like $150 MILLION to various charities. So do you really think that pittance they spent on Prop 8 comes anywhere near the limits that would threaten their 501c3 status?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Crazylove, a Democrat, is a dunce. As usual he unthinkingly misses the point. Of course the passage of anti-GLBT measures in California, Arkansas, Florida and Arizona is not the ‘fault’ of African Americans. It’s Obama’s fault because his unchecked bigotry galvanized and emboldened bigots of all flavors, especially EuroAmerican bigots who came out in droves.

      That’s why we lost and we’ll never let the cowards who uncritically supported Obama forget it. Fasten your seatbelt Crazylove, you’re in for a bumpy political ride, as are all of the dimbulbs who supported enemies of the GLBT communities like McCain and Obama.

      Churchill-Y is a pig. Why talk to pigs? Nobody listens.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pantherman
      Pantherman

      I canceled a long-standing wine club membership with a vineyard in Sonoma yesterday, and told them exactly why. Won’t be spending any money (or traveling there) in CA after this vote.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Obama emboldened bigots by saying that he’d vote no on Prop 8 + driving millions of young voters to the polls who overwhelmingly voted against Prop 8?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      SWEEP….SWEEP….Blacks voted 70% in CA in favor for the ban…SWEEP….SWEEP….SWEEP…Blacks voted in favor of a similar ban in FL 71 %…SWEEP….And SWEPT under the rug!

      Meanwhile Mormons as vile and hateful as they are make roughly 2% in CA and unlike African Americans are not hard line Democrats……SWEEP…SWEEP….SWEPT!

      The MORMONS ARE TO BLAME!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      You guys go ahead and boycott. I just bought another week at our timesha…oops, I mean “vacation ownership club” at Marriott’s Maui Ocean Club.

      And I do appreciate the list of businesses that contributed to Yes On 8, because now I know some places I will be more than happy to patronize.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Pantherman if that vineyard gave money to bigots or supported them I’m with you.

      But if your intent is to harm the half of Califronians who weren’t swayed by Obama’s bigotry then I think you should focus on some business or organization who actually contributed.

      For instance, help organize a boycott of the Democrats and Republicans.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Maybe instead of getting mad at Obama because the No on 8 bigots used only the portion of his quote where he said he didn’t favor gay marriage, we should have (along with No on 8) spent a lot more time reaching African Americans + other voters with his message that he found Prop 8 unnecessary + that he’d vote against it, along with Joe Biden.

      Face it, they out-campaigned us. Period. We are collectively more creative + crafty than they are, but underestimated their ability to campaign + how far their money went. If more of us had devoted ourselves to a grassroots campaign to get out the vote for No on 8, the outcome might have been different. It’s not just the fault of (some) Mormons, (some) Blacks, (some) Catholics, Gavin Newsom’s gaffe, + Obama’s “not favoring gay marriage” quote that caused this loss; it’s also the lack of effort + donated funds on much of our part in campaigning against the Prop.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      fredo777 – the time for cowardice and lies is over.

      You helped elect a bigot, one who whispered his ‘opposition’ to 8 while he daily bellowed his bigoted message that same sex marriage is a ‘sin’ – “god’s in the mix”.

      Don’t be supriesed if we remind you of that from time to time.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      “(some) Blacks” 70% IN CALIFORNIA

      “(some) Blacks” 71% IN FLORIDA

      YES WE CAN!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      No, fredo777, those were contributory factors.

      The fault is Obamas and the Democrats who cravenly supprted his bigotry.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Bravo commie Perdue dump on Mo777!

      Right on!!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      “No, fredo777, those were contributory factors.

      The fault is Obamas and the Democrats who cravenly supprted his bigotry.”

      That, Bill, is bullshit + you know it.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      And as for “reminding” me that I elected Obama, Billiam, I have no problem with that.

      He was the best choice + one that I stand by proudly.

      Btw, Cunthill, go jump in front of a train. Those exit polls are pretty meaningless. But let’s say they are accurate. I notice how conveniently you overlooked the nearly 55% of white voters in AZ who voted against gay marriage in that little “yes we can” post.

      Let’s face it: you can throw out random percentages all you wish. At the end of the day, there were still more white voters in volume (millions) who voted against gay marriage than black voters, in Cali, Florida, + AZ.

      NO YOU CAN’T (snow me with your biased bullshit).

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage.” – Obama

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      Fun with numbers:

      “1/2 of voting age gays in CA aren’t even registered to vote

      1/3 of registered gay voters didn’t even vote
      prop 8 is ahead by 400,000 votes 4% and just the non voting registered gays in CA would have equaled another 7% and we would be ahed by 3%
      unregistered gay voters in california would have given us 10% more = 6% ahead

      Registered gays CA who didn’t vote + unregistered CA gays = 17% more for our side and we would have won at +13% ahead”

      I think we need to look in the mirror.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      “I still think that these are decisions that need to be made at a state and local level. I’m a strong supporter of civil unions.

      You know, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman” -Obama

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vague
      Vague

      Frank Kameny said: And I do appreciate the list of businesses that contributed to Yes On 8, because now I know some places I will be more than happy to patronize.

      So just to be clear Mr. Kameny, you support the ban on gay marriage? Are you gay? What are you doing here? Just thumbing your nose at us?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      “he does not support it and is not inclined to fight for it, his advisers say.”

      -Talking about Obama’s views on Marriage Equality for Gays

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vague
      Vague

      Are you Frank Kameny, or are you just making fun of him?

      Dr. Franklin E. Kameny (born May 21, 1925 in New York City) is “[o]ne of the most significant figures” in the American gay rights movement.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers [Different person #1 using similar name]

      More on No on 8:

      How much GOTV?

      http://www.thenation.com/doc/20081124/kim

      Saying in parts:

      ” First, there’s the matter of the Yes on 8 coalition’s staggering disinformation campaign. Ad after ad told voters that without Prop 8, their churches would be forced to perform same-sex unions and be stripped of their tax-exempt status; that schools would teach their children to practice homosexuality; and, perhaps most effective, that a smiling Barack Obama had said, “I’m not in favor of gay marriage.” This last bit went out in a flier by the Yes on 8 campaign, targeting black households.”

      Adding:

      “But it’s only in an organizing vacuum that bald lies and racial pandering find room to thrive. Gay activists, by most accounts, were simply outmaneuvered. Andrea Shorter, a black lesbian volunteer for the No on 8 campaign, told me that the outreach to the African-American community began in earnest a week ago. “What’s happened is that there’s been an outcry from communities of color, including African-American communities, who say, ‘Include us!’ Now there’s a GOTV strategy, but for some it seems last minute,” she said in an interview before the election. Another No on 8 activist, Karin Wang, told me at the City Hall rally that when Asian Pacific Islander groups went to buy ads in Chinese and Korean newspapers, they were informed that Yes on 8 had been renting space for weeks.

      Many gay leaders, especially those less central to the No on 8 efforts, told me that such disorder was endemic to gay efforts. “The campaign doesn’t seem to have got its act together until a few weeks ago. It wasn’t clicking. It wasn’t raising money. It didn’t have good ads on the air,” says Rafael Mandelman of the San Francisco Harvey Milk LGBT Democratic Club. He laments, in particular, the absence of gay couples in No on 8 materials, which mainly depicted straight celebrities and elected officials. That’s a choice that was strangely mirrored by the Yes on 8 campaign, which put not antigay hate but heterosexual love–its sanctity and the threat to it–at the center of its message. At the City Hall rally on Sunday, the loudest cheers were for a young, straight Chinese couple who had exchanged their vows in front of the crowd. Their marriage, they hoped, would be made “safe” by Prop 8. It certainly was celebrated.”

      We need to look in the mirror.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      “I would vote no on the proposition.”

      – Obama

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vague
      Vague

      If you are misrepresenting yourself as if you were Frank Kameny, that would be a pretty serious affront. I would like to ask the moderators to delete your posts and block your IP from posting.

      If you actually are FK, let’s talk.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      And yet: “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage.” OBAMA

      and “he does not support it and is not inclined to fight for it, his advisers say.”

      That makes sense.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vague
      Vague

      Waiting …

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      Obama is a Californian? Who knew.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      Vague,

      What’s the matter, aren’t you “tolerant” of opinions that differ from yours?

      Or are you just mad that you are woefully uninformed when it comes to churches and their tax-exempt status?

      Oh, and is Vague your first or last name?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      The poster posting as “Frank Kameny” is a troll. Kameny was a gay rights pioneer from the 1950s and 1960s.

      Pay trolls no mind. If you ignore them, they shrivel up and die.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      What he “believes” in his personal life is mostly irrelevant to me.

      The bottom line is that he wouldn’t legally prohibit gays from getting married + would vote against Prop 8. That’s all that is important. I don’t need Obama to “believe” that gays should be married; I need him to not remove my right to do so.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      Agree with Fredo. But, Fredo, why are you arguing with this Church guy? He’s not listening.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Sorry, but pointing out Obama’s personal bigotry on this issue is important.

      Imagine if a politician said he “personally believed” that black people were subhuman BUT as president would never allow government discrimination against them. Would African American activists rush to apologize for him? Hell no.

      Learn a lesson, gay folk — when we rationalize away or accept bigotry from others, and make limp-wristed excuses for the inexcusable, we get more of the same treatment.

      AA’s got respect in this country because politicians learned not to mess with them and their rights. LGBTs will get similar respect the moment that we establish a similar understanding with politicians. As long as folks are willing to be rhetorical sycophants for anti-gay politicians, we’re going to be treated like pathetic simpering limp-wristed weaklings.

      And we’re not. We should start acting that way.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      Brian,

      You are 100% correct. Pay no mind to anyone who disagrees with you.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Vague
      Vague

      So FK you hold gay people in such contempt that you are pretending to be Frank Kameny. Pretty sad statement about you that you have nothing better to do than hang around and make fun of gay people.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lord Locksley
      Lord Locksley

      You people are missing the point….ALL people have only the legal right to marry one person of the opposite sex….what you people want is the ‘right’ to marry someone of EITHER sex…and since that would apply only to gays who are so inclined,it violates the ‘equal protection clause’…you still have the legal right to marry someone of the opposite sex…just as everybody else does…and just as you always have….you might have a lot less angst about all this if you read my 2 groundbreaking books on the subject…”The Erotic Inadequacies of the Gay Pee Pee” and “Faggotry Can Be Cured”….in the meantime,console yourselves with the cold fact that attempts by a minuscule minority to force its own change in definition of what constitutes ‘marriage’ merely so they can have a ‘right’ that only applies to them,will simply not be permitted by people who see what a hoax and a sham so-called ‘gay marriage’ is

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Please don’t feed the troll. Thanks!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      Vague,

      Making fun? If you say so. I call it irony.

      Are you also so sensitive to the myriad of posters on this blog that have called for violence against religious people and institutions?

      And still waiting to hear back from you on that whole “let’s go after their tax-exempt status” thing. Does this also hold true for churches that actively opposed Prop 8, or just the churches that didn’t see things your way?

      Of course this is just a rhetorical exercise, as you hopefully now have a better understanding of what churches can and cannot do in the political arena.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Frank, get lost.

      There is a difference between someone who simply has a dissenting opinion but is respectful + someone who merely makes contrary, anti-gay posts on a gay-themed blog to stir up controversy.

      You are the latter. And as such, a troll.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      Please do not feed the troll. Thanks!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Brian, you are comparing apples to oranges.

      If Obama had said that he thought gays were subhuman, we’d be having a completely different discussion. He hasn’t.

      “We should be respectful of all people… and that is the kind of politics I want to practice.”

      – Obama

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      Fredo,

      Aww, boo-hoo.

      I’ve been quite respectful…except of course to nitwits who think in terms of “thinks differently from me = disrespectful”.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Boo-hoo yourself.

      I frankly (pun intended) don’t give a shit what you say, as I mostly plan to ignore your future posts. Just an observation that you seem very troll-y.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      If Obama had said that he thought gays were subhuman, we’d be having a completely different discussion. He hasn’t.

      Semantics, not substance.

      The substance is that he believes we are “less.”

      George Wallace said he loved all people too, even though segregation was “necessary” in his view.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Wow, you are comparing Barack Obama to George Wallace.

      What’s wrong with this picture?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • m
      m

      it’s funny to see a bunch of straight people on this gay website. i’m so sick of these heterosexual hate mongering assholes. stop trolling on our gay websites, you jackass and fuck off.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Traffick
      Traffick

      Frank, I might not know all about the tax laws in the United States, because I am a Canadian, and therefore already have the right to get married.

      But I firmly believe that any church that expressed a political viewpoint whether it be for or against Prop 8 or for that matter any church that asked its congregation to vote for or against any political party or candidate, should lose its tax-exempted status. Churches are to remain neutral, that is why they receive the tax-exempted status in the first place.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 4:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • frank kameny
      frank kameny

      “Churches are to remain neutral, that is why they receive the tax-exempted status in the first place.”

      Neutral on candidates and parties, but not issues and ballot measures.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 4:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Fredo777 says “Wow, you are comparing Barack Obama to George Wallace.

      What’s wrong with this picture?”

      Nothing, and that’s your problem. Wallace, a Democrat bigot, said that states should have the right to discriminate. Obama, a newer version of Democrat bigotry said exactly the same thing for most of his campaign. He said that same sex marriage was not a federal issue and that it should be worked out in the states. Dobson smirked. He’s a constitutional lawyer who knows exactly what ‘states rights’ means.

      He chose Biden, who voted for DOMA and DADT as his VP and ordered that GLBT be excised from the Democrat program.

      Then, and only at the last minute, Obama nervously whispered his opposition to Prop 8. What a contemptable coward.

      An AP story in today’s Washington Post by Eric Gorski says

      “In building a winning coalition of religious voters, Barack Obama cut into the so-called God gap that puts frequent worshippers in the Republican column, won Catholics, made inroads with younger evangelicals, and racked up huge numbers with minorities and people with no religious affiliation.”
      “The Obama campaign made a strong pitch for religious voters, building grassroots support through “faith house parties” where religion and the candidates were discussed, putting Catholic and evangelical surrogates on the stump, and holding faith caucus meetings at the Democratic convention in August.”

      Obama ran a campaign pandering to bigots from day one and won them over. They can out in droves, most of them EuroAmericans, and clobbered us in Florida, California, Arkansas and Arizona. That was Obama’s biggest betrayal so far but it won’t be his last. Count on it. Because now the bigots, having elected him, own him.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Your logic is flawed, Bill.

      By that same logic, the more liberal, less religious young voters who have elected him “own him” just as much.

      Sure, he pandered to religious crowds, just as he pandered to everyone else. He’s a politician. That shouldn’t surprise you. Let’s see what his actual actions as president say about his own “bigotry”, though, before we start judging him. Shall we? Thanks.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chris
      Chris

      Michael Urie from Ugly Betty
      and Andrea Bowen (Teri Hatcher’s daughter on DH, were also present.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 6:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • seitan-on-a-stick
      seitan-on-a-stick

      I was watching the Crap Neutered News (CNN) where a talking head News announcer with a lot of Botox injections was touting that the Ridiculous Radical Religious Right are using the same formulas for the YES on Proposition 8 for future battles with many churches and religious institutions taking notes to implement the same tactics around the world.

      Obama threw us under the bus on this one and we need to let him know.

      Kameny and Bobito are smart to suggest that Church’s with political pulpits should lose their Tax-Exemption Status but we need to send lawyers and gay congregants into these houses of hateful worship and record the sermons.

      Also, many funds allocated to AIDS and HIV support services are being distributed through “Faith-based Charities” but with all the homophobic Christian charity of denied care or hostility. It’s already an epidemic in New York with the sheer volume of poor and needs-based gays! We must document and report these “faith-based” charities even if they simply force clients to Pray to Jesus before getting food.

      We must litigate and employ the services of the ACLU which is all we seem to have left since America is making it clear that they do not care for our Human Rights and Equal Rights under the U.S Constitution.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 6:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      “the Ridiculous Radical Religious Right are using the same formulas for the YES on Proposition 8 for future battles with many churches and religious institutions taking notes to implement the same tactics around the world.”

      Sitting-On-A-Piece-Of-Shit is right! And I for one can’t till another repeat of the unholy alliance between the Mormons and the Blacks repeats itself again.

      I propose they start with NY specially NYC.
      I mean they put a similar measure up to a vote in places like Harlem, ghettos from the Bronx, Queens and West Indians hell hole enclaves in Brooklyn and New York will follow in CA footsteps in a flash!

      Then they can set their sights on Obama’s Chicago, You know that’s gonna go South side style babyyy!

      YES THEY CAN ’08

      Nov 6, 2008 at 7:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • callmewhitey,callmefaggot
      callmewhitey,callmefaggot

      I don’t give a FUCK if WHITES were the majority of the votes to put us under, the percentage of the Whites who DID vote, were a LOT lower AGAINST US than the percentage of MEXICAN that voted against us (53+%) and the BLACKS (69+%) that voted against us!

      PAYBACK IS A BITCH!

      Next time there is a vote, or Money to be doled out to these groups, such as COLLEGE FUNDS / EDUCATION / VOCATIONAL, IMMIGRATION LAWS, or MONEY needed for various causes, ect. US GAYS and OUR SUPPORTERS WILL REMEMBER THIS!!!!

      OUR votes and MONEY CAN make the difference of some of those people being DEPORTED, NOT GETTING CITIZENSHIP, NOT GETTING THE FUNDS THEY NEED FOR EDUCATION< HOUSING, WHATEVER! ** YES WE CAN ! ***

      These REVERSE RACIST, BIGOTED FUCKS sure want our Money and our services (hello Hairdressers,stylists,waiters,ect), but want us to be treated as lower class citizens!

      i think it’s because BLACKS were the LOWEST form of existence on the totem pole for SO LONG, Now THEY have the opportunity to put another class BENEATH THEM.

      Not too long ago, BLACKS and GAYS shared a very special bond, during the depression when being Gay was ILLEGAL, and BLACKS had NO RIGHTS,they actually mingled together in “underground”, “Illegal” bars/nightclubs where they could find strength and solace in one another. They were each others ALLIES which is WHY this SO OFFENSIVE TO US MORE THAN ANY OTHER group of people bagging on us.

      It’s AMAZING what being able to bang some white girls, having some cash in your pocket thanks to selling crack, pimping, and success of a few Rap videos can do to a GROUP OF PEOPLE.

      PAYBACK IS A BIOTCH

      Nov 6, 2008 at 8:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Keeping track, Cunt-hilly, that is two recent posts I’ve counted, both with negative statements involving blacks.

      So, 100% racist rate.

      I’ll be keeping tabs + alerting you of your current percentage.

      Oh, who am I kidding? We all know that last post by “CallMeFaggot” was also yours, idiot.

      So, 3 posts, still 100% racist rate.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 8:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Here’s another piece of racism Mo777:

      http://www.insidebayarea.com/elections/ci_10909847

      “Black and Latino voters critical to same-sex marriage ban’s success”

      Nov 6, 2008 at 8:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mark
      mark

      Utah, ya F*cked with the WRONG people

      http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/mormon2.jpg

      Nov 6, 2008 at 8:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Still 100%.

      Still a troll.

      Still sad.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 8:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Still not clicking any links you post, but I’ll (safely) assume that the video is somehow anti-black.

      And you are now 100% spamming, as well as 100% racist.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 8:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Yes! I’m gonna spam you with a CBS video link.

      Just like I made up those CA poll numbers!

      I also make flying saucer appear!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Unless of course he’s posting links to the video of Prop 8 protest at a Mormon church in Westwood.

      Oh, snap.

      Also on cbs2.com right now.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Who is this douchebag commenting on the live feed of the protest, but not actually reporting on what’s going on? It sounds like he’s just doing a mic check. Wtf?

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Btw, I’m not paranoid. You did spam those links on damn near every topic.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      I was thinking alarmist, but Paranoid is more accurate. Whatever 777, you always seem to want to find fault on others and while choosing to ignore yours and your people’s hatred for GLBT’s.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      I don’t have to look hard to find fault with someone who has nearly a 100% rating of posting anti-black or otherwise negative toward black comments on this site.

      That says something about you. You are biased, at best. And racist, at worst.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      And as a gay black man myself, I don’t have “hatred for GLBTs”.

      Check yourself.

      Nov 6, 2008 at 9:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      I’m sick of all this bulls*it, when will GLBT wake up. Civil rights weren’t handed to any minority group through elections. We need sit ins at any agency that supports anti-gay proposals, we need marches that disrupt the lives of others like these voters disrupt ours, and we need to not shut up until America leaves us the hell alone!!

      Nov 6, 2008 at 10:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHURCHILL-Y
      CHURCHILL-Y

      Bishop FRANK STEWART TO GAYS:

      “SUCK IT UP” (on video)

      http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Protestors_Signal_Battle_over_Same_Sex_Marriage_Not_Over.html

      Nov 6, 2008 at 11:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Ditto what Kd said, but honestly do you see gay men doing that KD?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hojo
      Hojo

      We have to focus here people. Religious bigotry defeated us not a specific race. Now we have to outsmart them it shouldnt’ be that difficult they believe in fairy tales. Divide and conquer.

      One million signitures gets a measure on the ballot. Lets litter it with religiously discriminatory legislation. Starting with any funds to political policy becomes taxable.

      Those nazi yellow signs everywhere, lets make it illegal to put political signs on public property PERIOD. Anyone has the right to remove it as if it were litter.

      2/3 majority in order to amend the constitution. Come on the founding fathers new the masses couldn’t be trusted that’s why they made the federal one so hard to amend.

      Second and third marriages should be illegal too. God hate’s them more he put it in the top ten. BTW if homo was so bad how come it didn’t make the top 10?

      And so on. Force them to spread their resources while we remain focused.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      Bigotry, Homophobia, The Black Community, and Prop 8

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Nov 7, 2008 at 6:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER
      the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER

      LETS REMEMBER THAT THESE HIPOCRITICAL, INTOLERANT SELF – IMPORTANT A–HOLES;

      THEY SAY ABORTION IS MURDER, BUT BOMBING INNOCENT PEOPLE TO STEAL THEIR OIL IS SOMEHOW NOT MURDER. (AND MANY OF THEM ALSO SUPPORT THE DEATH PENALTY)

      THEY BELIEVE IN “ABSTINCE ONLY” EDUCATION; NO INFO ON CONDOMS, SAFE SEX, OR MASTURBATION, ARE AGAINST FREE CONDOM DISTRIBUTION, RESULTING IN MORE UNWANTED PREGNANCY,AND MORE ABORTION.

      THEY STILL BELIEVE G.W.IS A GREAT PRES.AND A DEEPLY RELIGIOUS MAN.

      THEY CALL THEMSELVES CRISTIANS, BUT THEY ARE RICH REPUBLICANS WHO ARE AGAINST HELPING THE POOR AND DO NOT “LOVE THY NEIGHBOR”.
      THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES AND THEIR MONEY.

      THEY BELIEVE WE ARE WINNING THE WARS.

      THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION,IN SPITE OF ALL THE SCIENTIFIC PROOF. (FAITH TRUMPS SCIENCE)

      THEY BELIEVE THEY CAN DESTROY THE ENVIRONMENT (GOD’S CREATION, GOD’S GIFT TO US AND THE HOME OF FUTURE GENERATIONS) TO MAKE MAXIMUM PROFIT, JESUS WILL RETURN AND CLEAN UP ALL THE TOXIC WASTE, REPLANT THE FORRESTS, ECT. OR RAPTURE THEM AWAY SO IT IS NOT THEIR PROBLEM.

      THEY BELIEVE LOCKING “DRUG USERS” UP IN JAILS THAT ARE ALSO FULL OF DRUGS IS A GOOD IDEA,
      BUT SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THEIR OWN USE OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, AND PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.

      THEY ARE AGAINST EQUAL RIGHTS,/ MARRIAGE FOR GAYS TO “PROTECT THEIR OWN MARRIAGE”, BUT YOU DON’T SEE THEM PUTTING THE SAME EFFORT INTO STOPPING PROSTITUTION, A GENUINE MARRIAGE WRECKER.

      AND HOW MANY HAVE THEMSELVES BEEN EXPOSED FOR HAVING GAY SEX?

      AND YOU DON’T SEE THEM PUTTING THE SAME EFFORT INTO STOPPING ALL THE “NAUGHTY” PRIESTS.

      THEY ARE TOTAL HIPPOCRITES !!

      WHY DON’T THEIR HEADS EXPLODE FROM ALL THESE MASSIVE CONTRADICTIONS?

      IT IS BECAUSE…

      …THEIR HEADS ARE EMPTY.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 6:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER
      the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER

      who did jesus say to hate?

      who did jesus say to drop bombs on?

      —no one !!—

      Nov 7, 2008 at 6:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER
      the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER

      they are not christians;

      christians do christ’s work.

      christians follow in christ’s path.

      they are “jesus bevievers”

      they (may) believe,

      but that is all they do.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 7:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER
      the "MORAL MAJORITY" is NEITHER

      @Lord Locksley:

      to Lord Locksley; what about hermaphrodites?

      since they are both male and female, what is the “opposite” sex they are allowed to marry?

      your position sounds like the old saying;

      it is illegal for the millionaires to panhandle for money or sleep under bridges, or on park benches,
      just as it is illegal for the poor to do so.

      so the law is the same for all and therefore “fair”.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 7:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AJ
      AJ

      If I were a gay American living in the US, I would be getting the fuck out of there! When the people actually start taking the exsisting rights away, it can only go down-hill from there. If they just took down one of the most liberal states in the US and now are threatening other states, how long before Massachusetts falls?

      I was also a little worried about moving to Europe at first, but after I just saw what happened to my home state of Florida, I know now it was the best choice that I could have ever made!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wayne
      Wayne

      Posted below is a link to a video showing a prominent African American “Yes on Prop 8″ advocate preaching to an enthusiastic crowd and implying that gay people are pedophiles and are targeting children. “Gays can’t reproduce, so they Recruit”. This kind of open anti-gay bigotry that was used to pass Prop 8 and is sadly quite common within the Black church. Ignoring this blatant bigotry will not make it go away.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Wayne = Churchill-y

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob
      Bob

      I have a question for you all. Given that you proudly embrace an alternative lifestyle, why do you even WANT the right to get married? And if you succeed in getting gay “marriage” legalized everywhere, would you then be willing to extend the same rights to people who want to “marry” their dog? Or their car? Or a seven year old child? And if not, then why not?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      @Bob: You offer up a straw man argument. Neither Children nor Animals nor a freakin car can consent to a legally binding contract. strike one! Try again.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob
      Bob

      That wasn’t the question though, was it? Would you support that person’s desire to “marry”, just because it’s what he wants, whether or not you can see any validity in it?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      @Bob: It does answer your question by pointing out the flawed basis for the question in the first place.

      Take your trolling away from here, and come back when you can offer a reason that gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry that doesnt have to do with flawed logic, or your personal religious views.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob
      Bob

      Actually, you couldn’t be more wrong. Just because not every gay supports your desire for social acceptance through the flawed ceremony of marriage does not make his/her view any less valid than yours.
      So,Dub-not-so-Wise, why are you so anxious to have your lifestyle validated by the society you profess to despise?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      @Bob:the society I profess to despise? huh? where the heck did you get that?

      sounds like you are throwing out some red herrings there.

      you wrote “Just because not every gay supports your desire for social acceptance through the flawed ceremony of marriage does not make his/her view any less valid than yours.”

      again…huh? you’ve stopped making sense and I will stop replying …feel free to assume you won the debate

      Nov 7, 2008 at 11:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bob
      Bob

      I shall, because I have. You only decline to respond because you know your own logic is fatally flawed. You revel in your alternative lifestyle, and yet you cravenly crawl to a society which despises you (even if you claim not to reciprocate that), begging to be allowed to conform to their customs. Why?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob Moore
      Rob Moore

      @CHURCHILL-Y: I thought about the same thing. How to punish the largest number of people who think it is their right to take away my rights and the fewest number of people who opposed them? Consider that the strongest support for Prop 8 came from the rural agricultural areas and the San Diego area. The former group is heavily reliant on people buying their agricultural products. Restaurant owners outside those areas could buy their produce locally or from Latin America and the rest of us could do the same. Nothing so crass as a boycott organised by some organisation but a grassroots effort. San Diego and surrounding environs could be punished by directing federal funding for transportation to say San Francisco or Los Angeles and a few key political allies could block efforts to take water from others to give to the San Diego area and to farmers in Arizona and California who are heavily dependent on irrigation. What California voters did was far more egregious to me than banning something I already didn’t have. I think the rural bubbas of California need to feel the pain more than those in Florida which was already a neo-fascist state. We are not powerless and they are not invulnerable.

      I am certainly going to look at the origin of agricultural products. Given a choice between California oranges and South African, I’ll go with South Africa. If I ate avocados, I would choose the ones from Mexico over California. All those happy cows in the commercials for the California dairy industry will not lure me to buy their products as opposed to Wisconsin and Vermont. California isn’t the only source of almonds, lettuce, broccoli, or raisins. I will also do more research on the owners of California wineries and will not buy wines from any vintner who supported Prop8.

      My impulse is to ram a few bulldozers into the churches of Christians and Mormons, but that would only solidify support for them. I have always wanted to see the tax exempt status of religious organizations taken away and the special tax credits and deductions available to preachers removed so they can experience life as ordinary citizens.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Keith
      Keith

      I have a question?
      Where is HRC in all this? Aren’t they supposed to be lobbyist for Human RIghts? Time to start a more radical and vocal organization. Oh by the way, whoever made the comment that Chicago is next, Chicago has a politically active gay community and the mayor is quite friendly with the community and fully supported the 2006 gay games.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob Moore
      Rob Moore

      @Lord Locksley: Now that is a rather fantastic interpretation. The defining trait of a homosexual person is that he or she is attracted to someone of the same gender. The defining trait of a heterosexual person is that he or she is attracted to someone of the other gender. I suppose either type of person would be free to marry outside their orientation if so inclined; however, neither could marry a second person of their same orientation while married to another. By saying that gay people cannot marry other gay people, heterosexual people seek to enshrine their special rights and privileges in the constitution.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      I think HRC serves a purpose, but I agree, it is time for something much more radical! 30 states still allow people to be fired simply for being gay. We need action! Education! Marches! Sit-ins! Radical change.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eric
      Eric

      @Keith: HRC donated $4 Million, was managing and running phone banks throughout the state, put several staffers on the ground mobilizing volunteers, did community outreach to people of faith, and was a key managing partner to the No on 8 campaign. True HRC is not the Pink Panthers or the GLBT version of the Weatherman….because those tactics turn more people off then help the cause.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Keith
      Keith

      Thanks for the update. I just haven’t heard a whole lot about what they have been doing recently.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Eric – you’re right. The HRC is not radical, not relevant and not capable of leading the kinds of battles we’ll need to win our equality. HRC is an organization of sellouts and the fact that you helped Barney Frank is all the proof anyone needs.

      HRC is as much an obstruction to our equality as LCR and the Barney Frank Democrats. In fact HRC is the ‘liberal’ equivalent of Log Cabin Republicans. Our path to equality will bypass HRC, LCR and the Democrats.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      “Bob”, you’re full of it. You didn’t win any debate with that flawed logic.

      Marriage is not about “begging” for acceptance of our “lifestyles”. Quite simply, civil unions do not afford we same-sex couples all of the same benefits + rights afforded to those hetero couples in a marriage. And I’m not talking about the benefit of social acceptance or the use of the word “marriage”, but actual legal rights that come along with full-on marriage which civil unions don’t offer.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eric
      Eric

      @Bill Perdue: Keep thinking that HRC is an obstruction to our equality. Meanwhile, we’ll be over here actively fighting for it. Electing fair-minded candidates, working with congress to get legislation passed that helps the GLBT community, and working from the inside to change Washington. But clearly you have never sat down and watched C-SPAN for 8 minutes to realize that Washington works on a geologic time-frame (much to the shigrin of many people) and that it takes time to get stuff done.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • zach
      zach

      Regarding “Legal challenges: Same-sex marriage issue back in high court” (Nov. 6) Please, please, please! Somebody correct me if I’m wrong – but isn’t the point of voting that the citizens vote, the votes are counted, tallied and the majority declared?

      How can I respect anyone’s wishes to marry, when they don’t want to respect the voters in California (in 2000 and now in 2008) and the very fibers of democracy?

      Why are we spending millions of dollars and countless hours of energy when supporters of same-sex marriage continue to use up valuable resources to fight something that the majority already voted down? I support anyone in their quest to find a lifestyle of their own, but I do not support any group that is so blatantly defiant of democracy. If a vote is put forward, both sides must honor and abide by the outcome. Otherwise what’s the point?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      Zach, nice try, but the matter shouldn’t have been put up to a vote in the first place.

      The Supreme Court realized that gay citizens were not being afforded the equal rights of marriage + rectified the situation, based on their state constitution. Then, some haters pushed for Prop 8 to remove that already granted right.

      Majority rule should not work to remove minority rights in a constitutional republic.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Eric
      Eric

      @zach: Civil rights should not be voted on. If we would have put ending slavery to a popular vote, or the civil rights act of 1964, or nearly any other civil rights legislation/judicial ruling they would not have been passed. As Fredo said, you cannot let the Majority dictate the rights of a minority.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      Zach, please read up on tyranny of the majority.

      In the past, voters in CA have made it illegal for people to marry outside of their race and that was deemed unconstitutional.

      Xstians shouldn’t have wasted everyones time and their own money on this. They should concentrate on the things Jesus Christ found important…like helping the poor and feeing the hungry.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • zach
      zach

      here is my only problem with prop 8….

      the no side made it clear time and time again that
      “Marriage is a matter of love”

      if it is about love, how much longer until we are voting for a brother and a sister marry, or two brothers marrying or 2 sisters marrying….or a mom and a son marrying…

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • flightoftheseabird
      flightoftheseabird

      @zach: Um because marrying a family member is illegal. It is not illegal to be gay.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      @zach: more flawed logic from the “YES to h8te” side. Incest is illegal.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • zach
      zach

      thats not what i asked.

      i didnt say being gay was illegal. if you are gay that just means you love another person of the same sex.

      i can love my brother with out being taken to jail or fined. i can love my best friend who is a guy with out being taken to jail or fined.

      up until this summer, i couldnt go to the court house and marry my friend. until some people decided it was ok to marry your best friend who was of the same sex.

      my question was…. how much longer until people say its ok to marry you brother or sister.

      after all… “its a matter of love”

      i should be able to marry whoever i want to marry…right?

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      @zach: If its about procreating then when do we start revoking the marriage licenses of couples who are too old to give birth, or from woman and men who are sterile due to a birth defect or any other cause… Maybe all handicap people who’s parts don’t work can be banned from marriage too…. Your logic sucks, I’m sorry until you are prepared to be consisten in your arguments please leave them at home not on the blog.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      @zach: ok, you fool…that is WHAT YOU ASKED!

      let me quote back to you exactly what you wrote: “how much longer until we are voting for a brother and a sister marry, or two brothers marrying or 2 sisters marrying….or a mom and a son marrying…

      take your red herrings back to freeperville and NRO-town.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      @zach: Another question for you Zach. Why is telling gay people their marriage shouldn’t exist so important to you that you are on a blog called Queerty? What point of reference makes you feel as though you understand anything about being gay? Why are you so passionate to make sure the world, including yourself knows “GAY IS WRONG”?

      Quite possibly it is because you yourself are a male attracted to males. That is ok, God does not hate you, in fact studies show he created you that way. It is ok for you to find love in a man Zach, just as its ok for us to as well. I’m sorry that your upbringing has made you feel differently

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Eric: Give us a break. Do you really imagine all of us have forgotten the headlines about ENDA. Do you imagine we forgive HRC when you joined the Republicans and virtually all the Democrats to trash ENDA.

      And please no more bs about ‘these things are complex matters” or “we know secret, inside the beltway stuff that you don’t know” or “it takes time” and your old fallback “trust us”. Change will take eons if you HRC Democrats keep pushing us under the bus.

      “Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man’s original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and rebellion.”
      – Oscar Wilde

      Count on GLBT activists to ‘disobey’ HRC, the Barney Frank Democrats and the Benedict Arnold Republicans. We’re getting really tired of being run over not just by the right, but by people who say their on our side, collect our money and then push us under th

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • phil
      phil

      Go Zach!

      You are right DUBWISE…Incest is illegal…for now.

      but maybe somebody on the Supreme Court will turn that over and say “you can marry whoever you want to marry!”

      thats what they did in June.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      @Bill Perdue: The HRC serves its purpose and does a lot to fight for the rights of the GLBT community. There is no need to attack it because it has not gotten our community as far as you would like. Instead I recommend doing something constructive, start your own organization that is as radical or conservative in its approach to obtaining rights for gays as you like. One thing I think our community should not do however is blame each other for the ignorance of the world. Many people are against gay rights, HRC simply believes that the way to bring knowledge to the masses is a slow process. Let them believe that and let’s start another more hard-line approach of our own by starting/supporting other organizations.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dubwise
      Dubwise

      @phil: wrong. you need to re-read the judgement handed down by the court.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Kdogg: You’re right about needing new activist oriented militant groups, but you’re wrong about letting bygones be bygones.

      It’s important that we understand what HRC did with ENDA and the recent debacle in California. HRC and the Democrats, led by Barney Frank, and with the smirking support of the Republicans, trashed, gutted, and eviscerated ENDA. Then they tossed the corpse in the garbage.

      That was done to placate three groups; bigots in the Democratic Party, bigots in the Republican Party and the bigots in the Chamber of Commerce. The importance of ENDA was that it was light years in advance of the lame antidiscrimination laws of the past. It would have vastly expanded the ability of the GLBT communities, women, blacks, Latinos and union members to easily successfully sue against workplace discrimination.

      The Chamber of Commerce knew and wanted it stopped. Barney Frank and the HRC obliged them. That is not something we want to forget. It’s something we need to remember. We might want to work with HRC, but we’re doomed if they make decisions for us.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      I just feel the HRC is still pushing for gay rights on a very very broad basis throughout America.

      However it is true they do not represent the GLBT community today. It is why more than ever we need to push for a more aggressive approach to demanding gay rights than wine parties and Colbert Report laughter. We need a strong organization that has presence on Capitol Hill and in resources. Slinging mud around at HRC however is using our mud unwisely. There are plenty of people such as the Morman Church or Focus on the Family that we should be going after first and foremost.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 3:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BlkMagickWomyn
      BlkMagickWomyn

      We need to start with Black churches. My parents left their church over the anti-gay rhetoric (no matter how subtle it was), but I think they should have stayed and fought against it. More non-homophobic Black people would be willing to stand up if they thought they had support. Letters, visits, protests, boycotts, whatever – we need to get more organized.

      But we need to be careful to not turn it into anything racial (so stay at home and iron your sheets racists of Queerty). We need to remind Black people of their own struggle for civil rights and how religion was used to subjugate and dehumanize them.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kdogg
      Kdogg

      @BlkMagickWomyn: Well put!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Palin Power
      Palin Power

      I believe that the gays should marry…my husband is Alaskan so you know that I don’t descriminate.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 5:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fuckoff
      fuckoff

      Rev Larry, FUCK YOU. Go suck your God’s cock.

      Many religions and races also don’t believe in MIXING the races or having one person within the religion marrying someone in a different religion either, so because of that, you are saying since this is a “moral issue”, we can take the “morality” of OUR beliefs and apply them to you?

      Are we allowed to take away YOUR rights to marry into another race, or someone else whom shares different religious views from you?.

      Yeah, you blacks only cry discrimination and racism when it applies to YOU.

      Us gays won’t be mad for much longer, we’ll just GET EVEN.

      There are several initiatives coming up regarding Immigration issues, education, funding, and so on that would benefit YOUR causes and YOUR family.

      next time it’s OUR turn to vote against YOU and YOUR FAMILY. Most whites will vote against you already,.. you NEED, and used to have the minority vote you have screwed over.

      let’s see how you MEXICANS and BLACKS will feel once we vote against YOUR causes, and it finally affects YOUR family.

      You Blacks and Mexicans outta be really scared right now, because if it is possible for the Majority to take away the rights of one minority group, who’s to say down the road it won’t be possible to take away the rights that YOU have been granted?

      WHITES outnumber you and there is still a lot of prejudice, Most mexicans have issue with you, and now you pissed off the gays.. DID YOU FORGET? Your ONLY Ally in the past.

      We are going to let MONEY and OUR votes do the talking now.

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • funguy
      funguy

      I love how the PRO PROP 8 assholes say it’s about
      “protecting the children” and that they don’t want the “children to be “taught” the gay lifestyle, yet they bring the kids to these rally’s?!?!

      Aren’t the kid’s asking what “Gay” is? , What do you tell them? So isn’t that “educating and exposing” the innocent children to and about the gays?

      The “gays” aren’t going anywhere! We will still be here, we will still get married whether or not the state chooses to call it that, we will still be ALL OVER the Tv, in Music videos, Songs, Books, movies, internet, and they WILL learn about us at the schools, because guess what? GAY KIDS ALSO GO TO SCHOOL.

      Anything i ever learned about sex (at least the good stuff) was from my friends and the kids at school. SO WILL YOUR “INNOCENT” CHILDREN.

      For something so disgusting and unnatural you people sure are worried your kids will find appeal in being queer. Why would they ever go there if it was as unnatural and disgusting as you claim.

      Your kids will be who they are . like it or not..,

      you will also tell them how bad booze and drugs are and they will try that as well. After they see how great it is to be high and drunk, maybe they will rethink all the other things you told them were no good as possibly having something to it!

      Have Fun!

      Nov 7, 2008 at 8:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rivcuban
      Rivcuban

      Here is the long list of “Yes on 8″ contributors. Let them know how you feel!

      http://www.californiansagainsthate.com/dishonorRoll.html

      Nov 8, 2008 at 3:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Thelea Draganic
      Thelea Draganic

      I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8. Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear? If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, excuse me Jesus, that is crap! I don’t believe it! This political year was fraught with right wing lies. Bear that in mind.

      “Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California’s largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect Marriage.com has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state.”

      Still, even though gays were fighting to preserve a basic right, it was the anti-equality side in California that seemed to have the most fervor. A symbolic low point for the gay side came on Oct. 13, when the Sacramento Bee ran a remarkable story about Rick and Pam Patterson, a Mormon couple of modest means – he drives a 10-year-old Honda Civic, she raises their five boys – who had withdrawn $50,000 from their savings account and given it to the pro-8 campaign. “It was a decision we made very prayerfully,” Pam Patterson, 48, told the Bee’s Jennifer Garza. “Was it an easy decision? No. But it was a clear decision, one that had so much potential to benefit our children and their children.”

      This is your real enemy. Don’t trust exit polls taken when many of these same groups taking them were angry with African-Americans about Obama beating their Christian Right coalition messiah ie Sarah Palin. I think they are pitting one group against the other. African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math. And they do not have the money to fund a tens of millions of dollars Proposition 8 campaign. Note that they also targeted affirmative action for eradication in another state.

      Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, put forth a gay candidate for office and fight like hell. No one gave Obama anything and they will not give gays anything either. Obama stands on the shoulders of a lot of brave people who gave their lives for him to stand on that podium last night.

      Never trust exits polls because in all my years of life, no one has ever been seen at a polling place asking anyone anything when they left.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 4:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rivcuban
      Rivcuban

      I was just watching the news. There is a large protest in Silverlake. They showed some fat drag queen dressed as a nun with a bullhorn. That’s the last thing we need! You will never convince people with that kind of extreme crap.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 9:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rivcuban
      Rivcuban

      @Thelea Draganic: I’m angry at ALL who voted for Proposition 8. The common denominator here is conservative religion. Education is the key. Christian conservatives and black churches continue to repeatedly perpetrate the myth that being gay is a choice and just nothing more than a “sex act”.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 9:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • HeyRivcuban
      HeyRivcuban

      “I was just watching the news. There is a large protest in Silverlake. They showed some fat drag queen dressed as a nun with a bullhorn. That’s the last thing we need! You will never convince people with that kind of extreme crap.”

      ASSHOLE
      Those people , as well as the leather Daddies, ultra effeminates, and so on ARE ALSO a part of OUR community.

      For YOU to say they shouldn’t be who they are, you are just as bad as the people opposing us.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 9:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Rivcuban: rivciuban – don’t you think it’s high time you got your ass back in the closet. Not all black churches preach bigotry and it’s prejucical to say so. That is to say it’s racist.

      Your comment “They showed some fat drag queen dressed as a nun with a bullhorn. That’s the last thing we need! You will never convince people with that kind of extreme crap” displays a toxic level of internalized homophobia.

      Education is not the key. It’s ahistorical and clueless to think so. Escalating mass actions by movements that won’t take no for an answer are the key. The education of bigots can only be accomplished by compuslion.

      Get a clue and stop exposing us to your ugly character traits.

      Nov 8, 2008 at 9:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cameron
      Cameron

      These butt-fucking faggots need to jump off the nearest cliff. No one wants to hear you whine, prop 8 passed and it’s over. I HOPE ALL HOMO’S GET AIDS. They deserve nothing less.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 1:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cameron
      Cameron

      Fuck you faggot. Go die.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 1:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rivcuban
      Rivcuban

      Those people , as well as the leather Daddies, ultra effeminates, and so on ARE ALSO a part of OUR community.

      ——————————————-

      Fuck you too. They may be part of our community but they are a TURNOFF to the majority of people. They choose to dress up like a nun and act silly and childish. Drag belongs in a bar and not in the streets when you are trying to convince the mainstream about gay marriage. If someone is effeminate, that’s biological and therefore they should be accepted just like everyone else in society. Men with whips and leather and drag queens is a completely different matter. Yes, they have a complete right to live how they choose but on the other hand they are doing harm to our movement.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 2:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rivcuban
      Rivcuban

      Cameron…Fuck you too. Obviously you are a self-loathing closet case.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 2:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rivcuban
      Rivcuban

      Really Bill Perdue? Name one primarily black church that opposed Proposition 8?

      Nov 9, 2008 at 2:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rights for all
      rights for all

      10 % more votes and you would have won easily…

      get together with the medical marijuana supporters !!

      you support them, and they support you !!

      when medical marijuana doesn’t win, it is also within 10 %.

      the evil bastards love to divide and conquer.

      change is possible if you help others and they help you.

      form a coalition.

      rights for all !!

      Nov 9, 2008 at 5:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rights for all
      rights for all

      to all the straits who really hate gays;

      stop giving birth to them.

      gays can’t reproduce. (look it up)

      these humans you hate are the sons and daughters of strait people.

      not gays and lesbians.

      one of your childen or grendchildren might be gay.

      will you hate them too ??

      i am strait, but i don’t hate gays.

      remember who said “love thy neighbor??

      Nov 9, 2008 at 5:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      This discussion is for queers, not for racists and certainly not for homosexuals who hate queers. End of conversation.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 7:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RivCubanIsAn Idiot
      RivCubanIsAn Idiot

      RivCuban YOU are an idiot.

      Who cares what the straights think? If they don’t like leather daddies or nuns in drag OH WELL.

      People have the RIGHT to self expression , it may not be YOUR taste or the homophobic straights, but to take away EXPRESSION is also OPPRESSION.

      You are NO BETTER THAN THOSE AGAINST US.

      You need to go back to being a docile closeted little faggot, with your “straight acting” ways to overcompensate the inner gay you REALLY ARE like all the other little faggots in denial.

      You are just jealous YOU can’t get away with doing that, or look as good doing it!

      Nov 9, 2008 at 7:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CameronisAn Idiot
      CameronisAn Idiot

      PS If i get A I D S so do you!

      Nov 9, 2008 at 8:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      @zach:

      Don’t try that slippery slope line of reasoning. That argument doesn’t work. If it did, we could use that same logic in reverse + start denying more rights + restricting marriage to exclude, say, interracial couples based on what some moralist gleans from a Bible scripture.

      Everyone, including those crazy gays, has his/her own individual set of standards + codes by which he/she lives. Personally, I don’t support incest.

      If someone (adult) engages in it, however, I’m not going to go beating down their door + preaching against it. Free will + all that shit.

      The problem isn’t whether or not you think gay marriage (marrying the “person you love”) is wrong or not but whether, based on your religion, you should be able to deny my right to marry another consenting, sane adult.

      I’ll go you one better + say one consenting, rational, sane adult that I’m not related to by blood. There. Same as any other marriage, with the exception of my partner being of the same sex. Two people. Not related. Joined in a secular marriage, with all of the same rights of a hetero marriage + not necessarily sanctioned by a church, unless each individual church wishes to do so. That’s what I’m fighting for.

      Yes, you’ll argue that it isn’t “traditional marriage” + that it goes against “societal norms” but we all know that society evolves + changes over time. It happens.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 9:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fredo777
      fredo777

      GOP Leader: Rebuild party based on ‘sanctity of marriage’

      http://rawstory.com/news/2008/GOP_leader_Rebuild_party_based_on_1109.html

      Nov 9, 2008 at 9:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hojo
      Hojo

      We need to get an intersex person involved in the lawsuit. Make this thing as legally messy as possible. Lets define male and female at the chromosomal level.

      Look what happened to the Olympic commision when they tried to sort this out. It’s so ambiguous they couldn’t come up with a difinitive answer.

      Let’s make all straight couples do genetic testing to make sure they are all “male and female.”

      You’d be surprised how many varients occur…46XXY and so many others. 1 in 1700 people have ambiguous biological sexual identification.

      Many sterile men are actually not completely male.

      How do these religious idiots explain this. Did god create adam eve and pat????

      Funny how they constantly revert to FAITH when they can’t explain shit like the dinosaurs yet they suddenly demand scientific proof when it comes to sexuality.

      Nov 9, 2008 at 10:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wow
      wow

      that may or may not be true, just because someone shows support for this cause, does not necessarily mean they are gay. Many straight people support this.

      Nov 15, 2008 at 6:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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