I don’t think you can say that because a boycott of Arizona was proposed and then they adopted MLK day that the boycott was the reason they adopted MLK day. The reason AZ adopted MLK day was more likely because most every other state in the nation had done so. The Utah legislature also refused to create a MLK day for many years, until every other state had done so and then they finally relented with no pressure from a boycott, but because every other state had done it.

My “Get over yourselves” post was in response to the bitter, angry and hateful tactics used by gays and gay supporters. I’m not talking about taxes or polygamy. I’m simply calling out the hypocrisy of gays calling me hateful when they themselves have clearly displayed the ugly emotions in their posts and demonstrations.

It’s one thing to vote for a proposition put forward in a purely democratic process and express one’s opinion. It’s quite another to be targeted, boycotted, vandalized and intimidated for expressing that opinion. Especially when someone else who voted the same way I did is not targeted. I’m now told that by expressing that opinion I am a deep-seated hater of gay people. Please get this straight in your head… I do not, nor have I ever hated gay people because I believe it is wrong to do so. I voted my conscience when the question was put before me. But this prop 8 thing has truly tested my ability to match my thoughts and feelings with my beliefs.

Uh RickC, Please look at my entire sentence, not just part of it.

“We wouldn’t have this problem with Mormons if they would have just minded their own business and let us have our rights.”

If I turned my sentence around, swapping the word “Mormons” with “Gays,” people would look at my post funny and wonder “What the hell is this guy thinking? Straight Mormons are already first-class citizens.”

The gay community is being treated as second-class citizens because we don’t have all our rights in this country so that is what we are fighting for. The Mormons who believe that being gay is wrong are fighting against that. Not just in Utah, but in every state. I never mentioned anything about hate or hypocrisy towards anyone, neither in my last post nor in this post, so please don’t assume so. I’m just stating the facts.

Also, I like to point out to everyone that I have no intention of boycotting Utah in general. I’m just boycotting businesses that have connections to the Mormon church to the best of my ability. I’m mad at the church, not at the state.

Utah is an awesome place and most Mormons are awesome people. But, many have an opinion of homosexuality , influenced by scripture and their leadership, that has made the jump to politics and ultimately deprived me of human rights I feel are so basic to leading a fulfilling life.

Rather than hate the LDS Church and its members (and umm, the other millions of non-LDS citizens in this country who hold similar views), it’s our DUTY to change their perceptions. Not through boycotts, in a feeble attempt to show our “economic power,” but through well-intentioned protests, and most importantly, showing our friends, family, and neighbors that most of us defy their stereotypes of what it means to be LGBT.

Your impressions, Wolf, of the members of the LDS church are as misplaced as their stereotypes of who you are, just because you may or may not be LGBT.

You donated to No on 8, right? And asked all of your friends to do so as well? If not, you should’ve used your words then when it mattered, rather than now, when it doesn’t.

Ummmm, the margin was 4 percentage points. What that tells me is that every single effort in support of the proposition was critical. Without the Mormon effort, or any one of the other efforts, the proposition would have had less support and the margin may have gone the other way. So yes, the Mormon effort helped pass the proposition, IN THE SAME PROPORTION AS ANY OF THE OTHER EFFORTS. Why is this so difficult for gays to understand? Because they simply can’t accept the fact that a constitutional process was followed and the people spoke clearly. Gays are in denial that at least 52% of the CA populus doesn’t agree with them and they turn their anger towards UTAH? Put your own house in order before you go blaming aliens.

Ummm because without the help of the Mormon Church of Utah YES on 8 probably wouldn;t have passed thats why.

Laste week Mormon church elders met with state legislative leaders in a closed door luncheon as they do ona regular basis.

Church and legislative leaders try to shellack their closed-door meetings with a veneer of objectivity. LDS spokesmen say legislators request the meeting each year. And fter consulting the oracles, the Senate president and House speaker report back on LDS Church leaders might be willing to do But why?

The church hires a lobbyist like every other special interest. Nowhere else in the country do lawmakers consult with one denomination in this way — not Boston, not Birmingham. It’s one thing for lawmakers to consult privately with individual Mormon bishops and stake presidents. It’s another to make an annual political event out of it.

As long as the Mormom Chuch holds a strangle on the legislature. Its a forgone conculsion that the state will NOT pass any Pro-Gay laws.

The Common Ground Bills which are really the most smallest of gay human rights bill will not be passed. The LDS said after No on 8 passed and the spotlight was turned on them that they wouldn’t object (publically( and nor did they support it (publically) But what went on in a close door meeting with State Legislatures is beyond everyones control.

As long as the LDS controls the legislature UT is and will be a Gay Hate Hate State. And Gays and lesbians will not be equal. And you know whats okay. It is okay to NOT TO LIKE THEM. And it is okay to Hate them and stay away from State. The “turning the other cheek” and “we are better than them” bullshit doesn’t and won;t work while they are in control. In the beginning of the Gay Rights Movement when we were angry AND WE BOYCOTTED, AND WE PROSTESTED. Our movement moved further and faster. Its only been in th past 20 years since we’ve adopted the “we are so much better” attitude that we have stalled and gone nowhere.

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Personally I don’t care if I has the second biggest Pride Parade. Thats has nothing to do with the way the State is run and how the LDS controls it. If you want to stay there go ahead. If you want to enable the Mormon Chuch because 10 percent of every dollar that a Mormon makes automatically goes to the Church (There is no choice) go ahead. I’m not going to. ALL MORMON Businesses ahould be BOYCOTTED and well as Major Events in UTAH. They need to be hot where it hurts. In their pockets. Its the only way to make a point.

Neither the church nor the state is monolithic. Nor is the gay community. Making blanket proclamations about any of the above is ridiculous.

And props to TeleUte83 for highlighting that California voters, not Utahns, passed prop 8. Perhaps the all the boycotters from CA should analyze the vote and work on the groups in their own state that voted for prop 8, to change their minds. But if you’d rather look beyond your own house to place blame, I too will be happy to have fewer people skiing in the powder.

When gay people are perceived to be burning books of Mormon, vandalizing churches, and boycotting the Sundance Film Festival, etc. (which is a gay-friendly venue anyhow), you are just stirring up a big mess. What good comes of it? Who are you convincing, exactly?

Yes, Utah is a hornet’s nest. Please don’t sic the hornets after us while you sit in righteous indignation in Massachussets.

Please, boycott Cinemark, Marriott and any other business directly linked to Yes on 8 directly. But boycotting an entire state is ludicrous-and destructive to gays in Utah. We are making progress here in Utah. Please don’t throw it away.

Uh Jeremy, I think you are missing one key thing here. We wouldn’t have this problem with Mormons if they would have just minded their own business and let us have our rights. Furthermore, if gay marriage ban didn’t pass in California, we wouldn’t feel this way towards Mormons other than try to figure out why they spent so much money on a measure that didn’t pass and that time has always been on our side all along. Please do your research.

It’s deliciously ironic that you claim that gays do not dehumanize Mormons, and then you proceed to, um, dehumanize Mormons. You’re as much of a hater as the people you decry.

Maybe not “millions of dollars” but, from what I can tell, many in the gay community do spend “thousands of hours” dehumanizing Mormons. I’ve seen a lot of dehumanizing Mormons in this thread alone.

I know I am rambling on and on. I never claimed to be an english major, but my point is this…

You can’t boycott an entire state because of what a church or their member did to take away rights. (well, you actually can but it makes absolutely NO sense to do it.) No matter where you spend your money, some of it is bound to turn up into the hands of someone mormon. Whether you live in Utah, Florida, California, or wherever you choose. Eventually your money will benefit the Mormon church in some manner through some means.

The best way for us to make a statement to the church is to continue to show them that our families are not any different from straight families. We need to keep showing them that we have just as much success with raising children, with being faithful with our partners, with living normal HEALTHY lives. The church here has changed views on many subjects over its fairly short existence (when compared with other churches) and it will eventually come to the realization that they are wrong here too. They were wrong with womens rights, inter-racial marraige, blacks in the church, etc… All of which they have changed their views on and now allow. Its only time til they do that here.

The Mormon church isn’t the only church to blame. There has been involvement from basically every religion…especially those who are Christians. Its sad that Christians have shown to be the biggest haters around, especially towards LGBT rights, yet they claim to live their lives as Jesus says to live. Jesus was never a hater, so anyone who is a hater isn’t Christian…no matter the church they attend!

I feel that we need to keep our voices heard, our goals in mind and never back down for anyone until we get what we and ALL people deserve. If we keep getting side-tracked by trying to stick it where it will hurt, we’ll never get anywhere but where we already are. We just end up looking worse than the churches who have hurt us. We need to focus. We need to come together and move forward. We don’t need to be wasting our time, our money, our efforts and support on unnecessary hateful actions. It only hurts good people who are in need of your support. Lets focus on showing that as a community we are really no different than anyone else and are capable of spreading goodness throughout.

AMEN to that. Now we just need to figure out what organizations and companies (of course including the LDS church and it’s affiliates) donated money or helped make prop 8 pass, boycott them AND let them know that you are doing so and why. just couse their sales go down doesn’t mean that they will know immediately why.

We in Utah have been fighting REALLY hard against discrimination to be heard, and specially now we need as much help from everywhere to be able to make change happen. Turning your back on our state is leaving one of the places that needs the most help.

Yes I understand that you all are mad because Prop 8 passed, yes I understand that you want to retaliate, but don’t retaliate against a whole state which includes some of the most discrimnated against homosexuals in this country. Be smarter than that. To really expose the CRIME that was widely funded by mormon church members and aproved by california voters, things like the “common ground initiative” need to be done to expose just how far these bigots can lie.

So, when you think about boycotting Utah, please take into consideration that most of Salt Lake City and Park City are on your side. With a little research, it should be fairly easy to target a boycott where it would felt by the true enemies of social progress.

And don’t back down. Remember, boycotts were a vital weapon employed during the civil rights era–because they work.

It’s ineffective.
It’s hard to measure success.
The “state” can’t respond in an effective way.

In contrast, I can certainly see the benefit of boycotting a specific store location.

It is easy to measure success and discourage allies from shopping there.
The store is able to respond in a way a “state” can’t.
It has a much longer track record of success.

Boycott Utah? Don’t turn your anger into stupidity. Find the nearest anti-shop and shut her down.

Cultural conservatives have done well in the culture war, which translates into real victories for them. We need to “shock and awe” their asses back to the caves they organize their religious terror movements from.

We do not spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars dehumanizing Mormons, or working to take their rights away from them. We do not try to teach as many people as possible that they are sick, perverted, or a threat to other’s families (although they are). And, we sure as hell don’t commit such evil acts “in the name of Christ” like these hateful, hurtful scumbags do, every single day.

Not to mention – the Utah legislature just voted to reject a very minor piece of legislation in support of gays. They hate us, and they take great pride and satisfaction in their hate – outright glee, as a matter of fact, and you have the gall do suggest this attitude is admirable?!

You’re a fool Japhy – fags like you make me sick, you like a Jewish Nazi.

Seriously, please rationalize for me how boycotting a state is an effective path for furthering our political rights.

How does a boycott change the skewed perceptions of LGBT people that influence the minds of those who hate us? If you follow this boycott, are you not passing a judgment based on geography, that all people in Utah are politically and actively homophobic? That we all donated to support Prop 8?

Is this not akin to the world boycotting the U.S. for our foreign policy that you may or may not have agreed with? (Which didn’t happen because the world understood that “American people” is not synonymous with the U.S. Government.)

No, it’s actually worse because you’re assuming that Utah as a political entity passed CA Prop 8. The State of Utah is not run by the LDS Church. Boycott and petition the Church and all of the members whom WE KNOW donated to the campaign for hate, but don’t boycott a state because it’s the home of a particular religion.

Maybe, just maybe, boycotting Utah because a ban on gay marriage passed in CALIFORNIA is passing the buck by the LGBT community and its supposed leadership for mounting an effective response to the proponents of Prop 8.

I’ll be the first to admit that I haven’t stood up as I ought to for my rights for fear of retribution under DADT.. But I plan to change that.

Don’t let a passive enthusiasm for this boycott keep you from being an ACTIVE protester for your rights.

But, please at least boycott our virgin powder. The backcountry is crowded enough already.

However, I don’t think boycotting only Utah is enough. We need to avoid every state that has passed viciously anti-gay hate laws and Constitutional amendments, including places like Virginia, Michigan and Ohio. This is not about economic damages for these places, but LGBT safety. Once a state, like Virginia, passes a law or amendment stripping gays and lesbians of any civil right, like marriage, every civil right for gays or lesbians is suspect. There is no reason to believe we will be guaranteed hospital care in an emergency, police involvement if we are victims of a crime, or any other form of basic respect straight citizens can expect. There are simply no more protections for us.

I have to travel often for business, so I am forced to enter these states, but refuse to enter them for leisure purposes. I live in DC and resolutely refuse to cross the river into Virginia except to go to Dulles airport for work purposes. I do not shop in VA, eat in VA or even vist friends when they live in VA. I invite my VA friends to my house, but will not got to theirs, it simply isn’t safe.

Also you are using the word equivilence wronghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_relation

Go back and re-read the sentence. I think you’ll find that I’m not advocating “destroying” anyone.

It’s a rhetorical tool for making comparisons. Either destroy (an extreme impossibility) or change (a viable possibility).

And you seem to have skimmed over the part where I discuss the purpose of a boycott. It is to get media attention and wake up those Mormons who truly want to be good neighbors. Thus is makes little sense to talk about “no hope of success” as though economic damage was the purpose.

Where a boycott of Utah (well, in reality, of the Mormon Church) can be useful is in the self-perception of Mormons.

At the moment Mormons are the most homophobic of all popular or powerful faiths. True, the Catholic Church is pretty bad but the voting Catholics don’t take marching orders from the church. And evangelicals – even Southern Baptists – just aren’t that motivated to contribute money or walk precints to enact anti-gay legislation. But the Mormons – including out of state – contributed between 47% and 70% of Yes on 8 funds and were 80-90% of their volunteers.

We need to either destroy or change Mormons. And changing may be easier.

Like most religious folk, Mormons (even the meanest and nastiest of them) like to think of themselves as good people. They believe that their faith leads them to work hard, treat their neighbors well, and be a blessing on those around them.

We are challenging that notion.

By making a public noise, we are making some Mormons notice us. And notice their own policies and behavior.

The Church went so far as to claim that they don’t oppose ALL rights for gay couples… and then all four Mormons on the Judiciary committee voted that gay people cannot make a wrongful death claim when their partner is killed. Yes, they actually voted to deny the ability to sue for wrongful death.

Decent people, including decent Mormons, will eventually see that their positions are causing real harm to real people. They will have to look in the eyes of those in pain and try to justify why they are hurting them. They will have to ask themselves if they truly think it is good, just, and right to tell a lesbian trying to raise kids that she has no recourse whatsoever that the careless actions of others killed the woman who brought home the bacon; now she should just starve.

At some point they will feel shame. And when that happens, they will not be so quick to give their children’s college fund to anti-gay propositions.

But they will look at themselves ONLY if we let them know that they are being a bad neighbor and a hurtful member of society. They can only feel shame for their evil behavior if we let them know that they are causing pain, harming the less advantaged, and taking actions to deliberately make the lives of others more difficult.

And – at the moment – our best way of getting them to even consider the ramifications of their own behavior is find media – which seems to be by means of boycott.

Yes, the church and it’s members dumped money into the Prop 8 trough. But it was California voters who ate it up and cast their ballots. Publicity and financial support ultimately made the difference. So, how do haters from out of state plan to support our GLBT community if they turn their attention and their funds away from Utah? What is rational about that?

We have three GLBT-friendly business directories. SLC has been considered one of the top 51 “gay-friendly places to live” in the country. In addition to donating to “Yes on 8,” Utahns also donated over a million dollars to “No on 8” and we organized the largest “No on 8” phone bank outside of California. But for people like John Aravosis and Dan Savage, it’s easier to just write off Utah entirely.

Utah GLBTs are still fighting for the most basic legal protections – employment and housing protections, hospital visitation, domestic partner benefits, adoption rights, etc. We don’t need any more of your contempt or righteous indignation, WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT!!!

This was true when I would go to (among other cities) Oklahoma City and Tulsa, OK; SLC, UT; and Denver, CO – after the hateful amendment passed but before it was struck down.

I have heard, and consequently adopted, the term “GAYCOTT” to describe this type of consumerism.

It is something to consider when one does not have much say where and when one must travel.

I save BOYCOTTING for individual BUSINESSES, such as EXXON-MOBIL, which refuse grant equal rights to their employees.

I still try to frequent those places that are GLBT owned/operated or GLBT friendly when I now travel for pleasure to support our community worldwide.

Onto my main point, we need to get over this. Utah didn’t do anything wrong; certain Utahns did. But come on, what is boycotting Utah going to do? It’s not like gay tourism has the same meaning in Utah as it does in say, Florida – a state with numerous gay vacation spots and a sizable gay population. In Florida, the gay dollar means something. But what reason could we have to boycott Florida? It’s not like they recently helped pass a ban on gay marriage… oh, what’s that you say? They did? Hmmm… and they had ban on gay adoption as well?

All of this anger towards Utah is misplaced. End of Story.

I just moved to Massachusetts from Florida in October precisely because Florida is an anti-gay, bigoted state and the wingnuts can have it.

Yep, I picked up my toys and went elsewhere and I am very happy that I did so. I took my tax money and my brains with me. Florida’s loss, Massachusetts’ gain.