Well you just did sir. But you how does bestiality and pedophile have anything to do with a man trying to have Washington repeal DADT?

Looks like your with the guilty conscience.

If you like eatin pussy so much, then what are you doing on a queer site?

Hypocrite much?

I don’t think it can be doubted that Blacks had it worse then & now because they couldn’t hide who they were, whereas many Gay guys could pass, marry women etc. Not to mention in days gone by a number of laws were specifically directed at Blacks (poll taxes, literacy tests) and if I’m not mistaken some even mentioned Blacks but no other groups.

But some Gays do well, some don’t, same for Blacks – some were wealthy even long ago (Madame C.J. Walker was the first woman millionaire in the USA, not a White woman!) – I even remember a Newsweek article about a group of elite Black people, very wealthy have a cotillion of some sort, circa 1940′s (?)- what I’m trying to get at is prejudice and discrimination may be directed towards groups but ultimately it is an individual thing. I’m not going to get mad for an entire group – I only know with certainty how it affects me and I can only speak for myself.

“white men appropriating the heritage of black civil rights leaders”

How fucking dare you!!! You ingrate. As a gay, white man who lived through WWI and lost family members in it, lived through the Stonewall years, lived through the AIDS epidemic and watched dozens of my friends die and participated in the black civil rights movement by contributed my time, energy and money to help secure the civil rights that black people are entitled to, I want to scream at you to give me back everything you appropriated from me and the thousands of other gay, white men who helped you get the freedoms and rights you presently enjoy. And now you are going to take a piss on us. Well, piss on you, sister. You ungrateful motherfucker.

“As a gay white guy, you deserve the right to marry, but don’t ever compare your little tiff with Prop 8 to a legitimate struggle against a cruel and unforgiving enemy.”

Oh, how fucking generous of you. And thank you for marginalizing the suffering of millions of LGBT people throughout history that continues into the 21st Century. We have your blessing to get married, but our “little tiff with Prop 8″ is not a legitimate struggle in your eyes.

You are so blinded with your own bigotry and white hatred that you cannot even see it. When I read posts like yours, I want to go to the bathroom, stick my finger in my throat and vomit.

Unfortunately, your head is not in the bowl, so that action makes a waste of my perfectly good vomit.

However, unlike with the Jews in Germany, and blacks in america, if a bad situation arose, there’s no way to hide the reality of what you are. Gays shouldn’t have to hide that reality – BUT IF ITS EVER UNSAFE FOR THEM, DISCRETION ALLOWS THEM TO.

Skin tone, Lyle. There were plenty of Jews who were able to “pass” in Europe, well before the National Socialist nightmare. Look up the “New Christians” in Spain, or converts elsewhere. And the emancipation of European Jewry took well over five hundred years, compared to the relatively swift emancipation of American blacks. You invite these comparisons, you live with them. I can *easily* state that black Americans never had it as bad as European Jews. The comparison is repugnant, but you invited it.

But the gay society in which I live, and the gay society with which I interact everyday couldn’t exclude me anymore if it tried harder. Minorities are worthless to the gay community, unless they’re rhetorical examples of previous injustices.

Where in the hell do you live? The fucking Castro?

The gay “community,” to the extent it exists, is multiracial. If whites have organized better, follow their example and one up them. I mean, I don’t know what else to say. White gay men come with baggage, as do black gay men, Arabic gay men, Hispanic gay men, Asian gay men, etc. There’s no clean slate to write on.

Believe me, I wasn’t pissed after Prop 8. I was pissed well before prop 8, when nasty (far more nasty than Prop 8) bans passed in 2004. I’ve made a point at criticizing the overreaction. But this is just dumb.

And on a more pragmatic note, whether you want to admit it or not, the Right will hate you just as much as they hate me for being gay, and Obama’s presidency does mean that the American dialogue on race has entered a new (if largely symbolic) chapter.

“No group in America has experienced the same kind of pervasive, generational discrimination black Americans have”

I’m not saying that gay people aren’t persecuted and that they don’t suffer, look at figures such as Matthew Shepard, and thousands of nameless LGBT people who dared to express themselves! Sexuality is OBVIOUSLY a right of self-determination. However, unlike with the Jews in Germany, and blacks in america, if a bad situation arose, there’s no way to hide the reality of what you are. Gays shouldn’t have to hide that reality – BUT IF ITS EVER UNSAFE FOR THEM, DISCRETION ALLOWS THEM TO. That’s why a lot of black people, even a gay black guy like myself, get so upset when I see white men appropriating the heritage of black civil rights leaders. But the gay society in which I live, and the gay society with which I interact everyday couldn’t exclude me anymore if it tried harder. Minorities are worthless to the gay community, unless they’re rhetorical examples of previous injustices. As a gay white guy, you deserve the right to marry, but don’t ever compare your little tiff with Prop 8 to a legitimate struggle against a cruel and unforgiving enemy.

Beyond that, there is the fact that gay people are often rejected by their very own families. I challenge anybody in the world to say that their family rejected them because they were black.

Also, today in something like 34 states you can be fired for being gay and they can get away with it. They can murder gay people and still offer a “gay panic” defense.

I hate the “who is more oppressed” game. Did 6 million African Americans die in concentration camps? No, they did not. And then you could turn around and say, “Well, more died under Stalin..”
And this “more oppressed game” get’s you nowhere.

I am having problems now because my partner (of 15 years)have decided that I should not be part of the family and should not be in their son’s will. They question that what we have is like a marriage. Except that, um, they were a Jew and a Catholic who had to get married in a church basement because people would not openly accept their union at the church altar. My partner’s brother has a darkly skinned wife, of Indian origin. Up to the 1940′s, they would probably have not been able to marry in certain states. The point? At different times, each one of these couples was not recnognized as having a marriage. All groups subject to discrimination and hatred.
And as I reminded my partner’s father: You and I have something in common, had we been in Austria in 1939, they’d have a nice yellow star for you and a pink triangle for me.

And I think you’re dreaming if you believe that there are no Americans out there, Southern or otherwise, that won’t lynch you because of your sexuality. In my dad’s day they called it “fag rolling.”

No group in America has experienced the same kind of pervasive, generational discrimination black Americans have. But then, in Europe, no one experienced the same kind of discrimination faced by the Jews, etc. We can go on and on. Gay Nazi camp prisoners were tossed back into confinement.

And I really hate the “you can pass” argument. Yeah, and a Jew can pass as a Christian. So what? Implicit in that comment is the suggestion that your sexuality is just a privilege you enjoy, and not a right of self-determination. Which is it?

Actually you’re wrong about the gay presence in the SS. I’m sure there were some, but they would have been tightly closeted, especially after the night of the long knives.

Anti-gay laws, and the rooting out of gays from society and the Nazi ranks started when Hitler took power in 33, but the persecution got a lot worse after Roehm was purged. Hitler successfully used Roehm’s homosexuality as an excuse to quiet members of the SA and prevent them from revolting. So the organization as a whole was not the queer haven you are making it out to be.

In fact Roehm was arguing for a more moderate anti-capitalist Reich, and he wanted a socialist revolution and for the SA to be the core of the new army. Those were the reasons (plus the fact that the SA were a pack of street thugs that had outlived their usefulness once the Nazis gained power) that hitler purged them.

So the SA under Roehm didn’t actually have that much time to betray their gay brothers – and it didn’t really jive with his agenda. He was only in power for a little over a year after the Nazis came to power.

“I’m done responding to you.”

Wise choice, man. Trying to debate with the likes of Devil’s Advocate and Stan is like pissing into the wind.

It’s the truth and I thank you for stating it. It alls comes down to economic empowerment and gays are far more economicly secure than people of color. I live in NY and know many, many white gay guys who hide their sexuality in order to advance in the corporate world, only to go hang on Fire Island where they can cut loose. How many black, latino, asians never make it through the door? No, it’s not the same and the remedy should not be the same.

The implication that you mysteriously didn’t write out explicitly is your belief that you can change your sexual orientation. By all means, please do…please change your sexual orientation, for it is distasteful that you claim to be gay or at least not straight with the pronoun. Pursue that course, please…for a good chunk of the rest of your life, if all of it.

Well… without mothers or fathers…. none of us would be here.

Unless of course, you still happen to believe that kids are left in the cabbage patch by the stork, ha ha.

Nor do wedding announcements or other holidays/events that cater to the 97% of humans that tend to prefer heterosexual relations.

Hate to say it, but we are the exception and not the rule. Short of buying an island or carving out a hunk an existing state, as some other article here joked about, we’ll not likely be a majority of the human population (and even if we were so on a broad scale, dystopian sci-fi ideas of cloning perfect gym-bodied baby Chelsea Boys in a lab aside as the silly idea it is).

Really: some queens really need to stop getting their (D&G) pants in a bunch just because the rest of the planet doesn’t cater to our perfect vision for the universe.

“How many people know Gays and others had designations in Nazi death camps (Gypsies being another notable group?) …”

Quite a few I’m sure. Jews get the most and biggest notice, since bar none, they were the largest ethnicity/tribal group of people slated for population reduction.

Gypsies and Slavs were a relatively more distant second and third. Somewhere much further down the line were those gays who didn’t quite tow the line (especially femme/flamboyant gays, as opposed to those more butch supermen who may well have been a subconscious feed for those “Tom of Finand” guys)… and surprise, surprise: evangelical Christians who put their bible and gospel-belief in Jesus ahead of Hitler and national socialism.

Te numbers for both Christians and gays pale by comparison to the ranks martyred Jews… but numbers like 250,000 and 200,000 respectively, are still large collections of individual humans.

While many on this blog tend to “kill the messenger” of anything non-positive or politically incorrect, you have to be more sensitive to how you present things, but mostly you just have to be reality based.

Again, I’m not going to analyze everything you said -but for one example ‘Gays need to stop reminding people all the time.”

Where are you on this? Did you forget about wedding announcements in the paper, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, and 10,000 other things that remind everyone that 90% plus of the world is straight?

How many people know Gays and others had designations in Nazi death camps (Gypsies being another notable group?)

I’m done responding to you.

Nope. they were given the dubious distinction of being used as human guinea pigs in horrendous medical experiments that made being gassed to death seem merciful by comparison.

http://andrejkoymasky.com/mem/.....ho06p.html

Nope! None of the above, actually.

Just someone who would like for our community to stop blaming all of its ills on everyone else, and to live at peace without having to be a bunch of bitter, contentious queens when some people don’t see us as “Homo Superiorus”.

You wrote:
“Gays wore Pink Triangles at Auschwitz during WWII and were singled out for particularly harsh treatment.”

As were about 6 million Jews, 2-3 million Romany (Gypsies), 2-3 million Bible-believing Christians and Catholics who did not swear fealty to Hitler or National Socialism ahead of their faith.

And lest we forget, Jaroslaw… there were sizeable numbers of the Waffen-SS (Schutzstafel) and the brownshirts (SA – Sturmabteilung) membership, including the SA superintendent, Ernst Röhm, who were gay men as well, and put many of their gay brothers in the camps.

And again, as a demographic – I’d venture to guess that unlike the Jews who were exterminated on the order of several millions… gay men were not typically scheduled for liquidation after the manner of the “Juden Endlösung”.

Not another religious, bible-spouting, closeted queer trolling our sites and looking for an argument.

Gays wore Pink Triangles at Auschwitz during WWII and were singled out for particularly harsh treatment.

I’m not going to answer everything – YOU do your own homework and stop spreading ignorant shit.

A) Gays are NOT a race like Blacks, Whites, Asians, or by whatever measure of skin colour or body phenotype.

B) Gays have not been victims of mass genocide as have been North American First Nations peoples here in the Americas, nor like the Jews of Europe, nor certain African tribes in Rwanda, nor the Armenians in the former Ottoman Empire. At best, we are 2.5% ~ 3.5% of the general population, and have been otherwise indistinguishable from the gen. pop. (based upon outward appearances) for most of written human history (spanning about 6,000 years).

C) Gays have not been systematically enslaved on a large scale as a social group on account of their activities.

D) The attempt to parlay the gay rights against the struggles and history of Black in the USA seems disingenuous: Blacks can do very little to change their skin colour, and for much of their time in North America, could do little to change their socio-economic status that was often impacted by their skin colour. Is it any surprise that Blacks take some degree of offense at the LGBT activist efforts to coattail themselves on the success of the Blacks?

E) Concerning Marriage: Again, comparing this to the court issues that dealt with overturning anti-miscegenation laws may seem fair… but is actually a apples-oranges debate. The term “miscegenation” bears inside of it the root word for “genesis”… or “genus”, to “bring forth life”. Which is one of the things unique to hetero-normal marriage – throughout human history, marriage has resulted in new GENErations of humans.

This is not to say that those interested in having homosexual marriage legally recognized everywhere should not pursue it – I’m just suggesting that by attempting to play the “race card” here might not be the best tact.

F) Gentile Christians are not held subject to the Levitical Laws. Neither are they required to abstain from the consumption of shellfish, mixed cloth, nor cutting their hair funny, nor is the growth of facial hair for males particularly prescribed or proscribed.

These laws were, in the exact context of Leviticus 18 and its neighbouring chapters, laws for the class of priests descended from the Israelite tribe of Levi, and not for Gentiles living in Israel, and not necessarily for even common Israelites, although there were other injunctions concerning what food was kosher and what was not.

Gentile Christians (and actually, Jewish Christians, i.e. messianic Jews) believe that the Old Testament (OT) provides God’s views on what is moral and not — and when viewed through the New Testament (NT) especially through the teachings of Jesus, that it comes down to what the Holy Spirit would lead us to do – whatsoever things are pure, lovely, peaceable, etc.

Eating invertebrate seafood and getting USMC-style buzz cuts has little to do with being a Christian. (In fact, Jesus teaches through the Apostle James that for Gentile believers – who had NO cultural background in Jewish/Levitical Law whatsoever – that there should be no more burden on them other than these:

“— But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. —” (Acts 15:20, KJV)

This is also repeated again in Acts 21:25, and elsewhere in the NT where Paul writes concerning avoiding sexual immorality (only once or twice does he specifically mention homosexuality: he was much more concerned with the bulk of humanity that chooses to sin against their flesh with members of the opposite sex).

These verses would be inclusive of forbidding ANY sexual contact outside of hetero-normal marriage, and pretty much leaves us open to eating most things that we in the USA consider food.

And finally…. the letter we’ve been waiting for:

G. We as a community might do well to “get over ourselves”. There are some among us who cannot cease from reminding everyone else around us about our gayness, or about how wretched our existence is (really! as a demographic, gays are much wealthier than our hetero brethren per capita, are more well educated, and if you accept the “gay mafia” trope, have the creative/entertainment sectors of the Free World on lockdown!)

Yet, the screechers won’t be satisfied with merely getting everyone in the USA to accept our presence as a given thing, but will be panicky and angry unless every last person on earth whole-heartedly gives their support to our cause with gusto.

Granted, we’ve come a long way since the dark days of pre-Stonewall. However, won’t it be enough just to be tolerated, or must we continue to press the envelope ever further, and force our open sexuality upon everyone?

All things considered, I really don’t care to see/stumble upon people making out in public, regardless of the sexuality or composition of the people so making out.

If inner beauty were all that counted, I would have boyfriends by the dozen, but unfortunately in our society, outer beauty counts for an awful lot.

long live LOVE and HOPE and MEN KISSING MEN

“Sorry-
mistook you for someone sane engaging in actual discussion.”

translation-I said something completely baseless and now must resort to condescension because I got called on it.

Sorry-

mistook you for someone sane engaging in actual discussion.

Because you did not use any of the words in my standard paragraph, I’ll respond…

One thing I dislike about a lot of blogs is that it is so much easier to say, “Well, you just hate so-and-so…” than to dig deeper, than to employ more logic, look at the bigger picture.

It is possible to recognize Choi is a queen without hating him. Even bigots often give queens a pass. Look at Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham, for example. They keep getting re-elected by rural so-called Christians. Look at some of our biggest stars and entertainers. But to say you don’t notice Choi is a queen is to say you don’t notice the Gulf of Mexico is large.
Can we be grown-up around here?

Can a queen be patriotic? Of course. Should a queen serve his country if he wants to? Why not! But here’s the little thing that’s being overlooked: not one but both wars Bush-Cheney got us into are the same old imperialist hegemony crap we’ve endured for years… the Same Old Empire, colonizing nations and kicking the shit out of innocent civilians, the majority women and children, and privitizing the nation’s resources. Why am I such a Big Meanie to question why anyone would want to be a part of that? Ditto, to question if anybody, by this point in time, doesn’t know these phony wars make us more hated and LESS safe?
Since Choi is not a moron, he knows not only he but EVERYONE in the scam should no longer participate, but he wants to get back into action. For what other possible motivation could it be but enjoying the sight, sound, smell and closeness of hot men?

Now if this were WW2 and Choi wanted to intercept and translate for America so we wouldn’t all wind up wearing Liederhosen- except those killed in concentration camps, that is- that would be different, and I’d keep my yap shut.

See comment #17, he got it right, but I didn’t read anybody squawking about that comment.

My standard paragraph: I dare you to reply without the words fat, insane, take your meds, shock treatment, asinine, bitch,
self-loathing, or otherwise switching the topic to me.

You were trying to up the ante by saying “gay iraqi’s are killed (by other iraqi’s NOT AMERICAN TROOPS) and then make the leap to “american troops will then begin killing their own troops who are gay, because they don’t stop iraqi’s from killing gay iraqi’s”.

care to explain how that leap was made?

remember, Landon, logic is your friend.

tell that to the people who got hosed, attacked by police dogs, kidnapped from their homes and lynched, the women raped etc. etc. that it wasn’t a war zone.

but don’t take my word for it, Landon, it’s all on video.

yeah, Choi better be careful, I hear they’re really gunning for the linguist.

Oh, I take responsibility for having given the wrong impression. I’m not a clear writer, and I’m sorry. You seem to deliberately ignore that my point that Choi is in danger from American soldiers– I don’t think that was unclear in my second message at all, so I don’t see why you continue to pretend I was talking about Iraqis reading gay blogs.

Again, if you think being a black woman in the 1950s was more dangerous than being a soldier in Iraq, please do yourself the favor of reading a book before commenting on these issues in front of people whose opinions of your intelligence matter to you.

You implied that Choi was in greater danger from Iraqi’s because he was gay.

This whole, “well, one crazed bigot watching him, blah blah” could also be true for anyone who may be a potential victim of random violence. And yes, ALL troops are in great physical danger, due to being in Iraq. Choi being gay makes little difference (you do know he’s a linguist right?….how many linguist have been killed in war?…i’d wager not many), and your attempts to create some hypothetical “well if he was walking down a street and the one english speaking iraqi who also happened to have read a gay blog, carrying a gun, during halloween with a full moon blah blah”..is ridiculous.

Choi is in danger because he is a soldier yes, his being a gay linguist, not so much.

Parks was in far greater danger due to being a black women in that era. Hands down. You are a moron.

I think you miss my point. Our soldiers occupy Iraq. Our military values the lives of gays so little that they are doing nothing to prevent the murder of gay men. Many Americans have died in friendly fire incidents in Iraq. Choi is pledging to return there. Although he focuses on the support he has gotten, he knows that all it would take is one crazed bigot for him to die. And, yeah, I think the crazed bigots might know the gay guy who came out on TV.

Besides, ALL soldiers in Iraq are in greater physical danger than Parks was in. This is an undeniable truth that ten minutes of research if not ten seconds of reflection will prove. Again, I know about Parks because I admire her greatly and have studied her. She did put herself in physical danger but the racist past was not a warzone. Please read a book.

This is perhaps the most virulent anti-gay bigotry I have ever read on Queerty:

“just the sight and especially sound of him conveys that it was the adventure of being abroad and in the company of in-shape young guys, hot inner city studs and buff rural hunks… this was Choi’s motivation, not some idiotic
and patriotic mission to kick some Arab ass because of 9/11.”

So– effeminate men can not be patriotic? You feel qualified to judge someone’s motivations by your judgments regarding his masculinity?

Perhaps you hate Choi so much because believe that gays are truly incapable of military service. Or perhaps you hate the military so much that you are incapable of seeing decency in anyone that serves within it.

Please add the word “bigot” to the list of adjectives that adequately describe you with which this incarnation is currently ending its posts.