Wow! Hard to believe its 2011 with so many sheep flocking to the abymal fraud that is all religion.

*********
It was intended that we use this power only with our partner in marriage. I repeat, very plainly, physical mischief with another man is forbidden. It is forbidden by the Lord.

There are some men who entice young men to join them in these immoral acts. If you are ever approached to participate in anything like that, it is time to vigorously resist.

While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.

After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, “I hit my companion.”

“Oh, is that all,” I said in great relief.

“But I floored him,” he said.

After learning a little more, my response was “Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn’t be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way.”

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself.
*********

This was turned into a pamphlet called “To Young Men Only” and distributed to young men for years (it was not printed in the Ensign because it was a *sensitive* topic). As you can see, Packer basically thanked an elder for hitting his companion for coming onto him. Many Mormons I have talked to still do not see this being a problem; some have even said, “Yeah, I would have hit them too.” But think about it – what if a general authority had said that a guy had hit a girl who was coming onto him and then thanked him for it? I think the answers you would get from Mormons would be very different in this case even today.

But what I like most is what Mr. Oaks said in his 1995 talk called “Same-Gender Attraction.” Despite Packer encouraging young men to “vigorously resist” gays by doing things such as hitting them (this is the only example he gives of how to deal when approached by a gay, actually), Oaks said:

*********
Our doctrines obviously condemn those who engage in so-called “gay bashing” — physical or verbal attacks on persons thought to be involved in homosexual or lesbian behavior.
*********

Perhaps Oaks never listened to Packer’s talk or read the pamphlet that his own church was distributing for years, but for some reason I doubt it. I find it appalling that the Mormons can blatantly go against minority groups and then pretend that it never happened, shifting the blame elsewhere each and every time. If you try to find Packer’s “To Young Men Only,” it has completely been removed from any of the church’s sites. This also goes for Packer’s talk “To the One” which was also offensive to gays, or Spencer W. Kimball’s “A Letter to a Friend” which in reference to homosexuals said: “Men who die may live again, but when the spiritual death is total, it were better that such a man were never born.” While I am on the topic of history the church has tried to hide, my personal favorite is a talk given by Ronald E. Poelman of the 1st quorum of the 70 in the 1984 general conference. It was titled “The Gospel and the Church” and was about using our agency. However, apparently this didn’t go over to well with church leaders, and after Poelman had given his talk, the leaders changed it in the Ensign (the monthly church magazine) as well as in video tapes of the conference… they actually had Poelman redo his talk using a cough track to make it sound like he was doing it in front of a live audience, and didn’t tell anyone they were making changes. What had been a talk about agency sounded more like a talk about following church leaders when they were done with it. The church claims that Poelman himself requested the changes be made, but I also find this unlikely. He was not invited to speak again for over 4 years in a conference, and as a result the church now makes leaders submit a copy of their talk that is reviewed and approved before given in General Conference. And this is coming from a church that claims to be led by prophets, seers and revelators; should they not know if someone is going to say something wrong in advance, or at least be led by their so-called spirit into speaking the truths?

These are the deceitful men that are taking away the rights of minorities and pretending they have been defenders of marriage all along. The former Mormon prophet, Gordon B. Hinckley, said about the marriage in the temple:

*********
That facility was erected and dedicated for the performance of the sacred ordinances which the Lord has revealed in this time, and among those sacred ordinances is that of marriage for time and all eternity. (Gordon B. Hinckley, Inspirational Thoughts, Ensign, August 1997, 3)
*********

Thus marriage is defined as an ordinance. Here is a quote from the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith Jr. (It is on page 22 of the August 2001 Ensign):

*********
The Prophet Jospeph Smith taught, Ordinances? instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed.
*********

Thus marriage, according to the Mormons, is defined as an ordinance, and should not be changed. The same Dallin H. Oaks as mentioned above has said:

*********
The ancient order of marriage is the divinely sanctioned union, recognized by the state, between one man and one woman.*
*********
*********
We follow Jesus Christ by adhering to God’s law of marriage, which is marriage between one man? and one woman. This commandment has been in place from the very beginning.
*********

Note in his remarks that he says “one woman” and not “many women.” However, that is definitely not what early church leaders like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were doing with their many, many wives. The church has no right to define what they think proper marriage is. The Mormon church – no, the LD$ coropration – is out for money and power, and has openly discriminated against those who are not part of their Aryan (= white heterosexual in this case) race. Karma is getting them through the internet with an increasing number of members hemorrhaging out, as well as less success in their missionary work as in past times.

It’s about time. ;-)

Most religious clothing marks the wearer publicly. Mormons wanted the hocus pocus aspect of religious clothing without the wearer being branded a loon. That’s why it is cowardly.

Again, Brigham Young’s followers ordered the massacre. You need to understand that you are not the chosen people– Mormons never had the right to come to any area, expel the gentiles, steal their land, and remake the laws of the United States in the image of theocracy. You think your religion puts you above other people. That’s why you think the Mountain Meadows massacre was the result of persecution, not behavior typical of the bunch of immoral thugs the nineteenth century polygamist Mormons undeniably were.

But Rodney, you are so stupid you believe people in the time of the Bible were able to come to America from Israel by boat. How can you expect intelligent, rational people to take you seriously?

“Rockstar Status”

When the Gays give Mormons all the attention, Conservatives take note. This would not have been possible without the tireless religious intolerance Homosexuals display toward Mormons. Vern can’t even type the word “Mormon” without adding in a jab “mor(m)on”. Intolerance towards Mormons has its positive side effects. Imagine pushing the Evangelical powers together with the Mormon powers, Muslim powers, Catholic powers, etc. Vern and the gayng has created a worldwide, Traditional Marriage supporting, unstoppable juggernaut.

You made the comment that bigots are made and not born. You are absolutely correct in that statement and most comments on this board prove this and solidify the respective opinion.

Anyway, since you called BS and want Mormons to call a spade a spade, here’s ONE Mormon (I can’t speak for all Mormons and God knows I’m not a typical Mormon. As you can see Cam, I’m not following the “play book”) who will say, yes I am a bigot. Yes, I hate people, gays included that condemn me for my beliefs and yes, I don’t want them on or near my property. I don’t want to see your freak show gay, gay-pride flaunting of your lifestyle. And beyond the definition of Man/Woman marriage, I don’t want homosexual married couples on my company’s group healthcare plan. “The HIV” just will make my costs go up and Obamacare isn’t going to change that. This is how SSM would impact my life, the lives of my children and society and all these young progressive voters will figure that out too when they have to pay their own way in this world, so good luck with the 18-22 year olds. However, your comments have impacted my opinion on Same Sex Relations among men though. It may not be such a bad thing after all…

1.Same sex couples can’t procreate. No little Verns without an egg donor.

2.http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/new.....08COMP.pdf

There is no cure. This is my “permanent victory”. Catch you later, I gotta go put a load of magic underwear in the dryer….

I’m so sorry I took so long getting back to you. Okay, I’m not, but I can lie just as well as any mor(m)on.

You said: “SSM has a lot of influence on my life and the society I live in. It has influence on my childrens lives and the future.”

If this is true, then you won’t have a problem explaining how it affects your life, right? How does it influence your children’s lives, for that matter?

“I have nothing directly against homosexuals personally, but I don’t want the definition of marriage devalued in a way to neutralize the importance of gender roles; i.e. a mother and a father. I believe it is important to have a mother and a father in a marriage and so do the vase (sic), vast, majority of Americans.”

If you had nothing against GLBT people personally, then you wouldn’t endorse and participate in personal attacks against us and our families. You, like all the other bigots, mor(m)ons and otherwise, are simply liars. Never mind that innumerable studies (the scientific kind, if that matters to a superstitious prick like yourself) have shown that while two parents are better than one, the gender of those parents makes no difference whatsoever as far as raising a child is concerned. Get a real argument.

“‘Bigotry’ is what you call it. I call it ‘Values’.”

Well, if your “values” state that it is acceptable to discriminate against minorities, tear apart their families, inflict emotional pain and financial hardship on them, and devalue their worth as human beings…well, I’d say your values hold no value whatsoever.

“If you don’t think I have the “right” maybe you should take a class in Constitutional Law, or better yet go try and get a SSM in Maine. I have every right in the world to vote according to my values.”

Of course you do. That’s because the laws which permit actions like what transpired in Maine and California are immoral and unjust themselves. Just because you can be an evil shithead doesn’t mean you should.

“Perhaps you missed the part where the voters “overturned” the law. When you overturn something, that means it was turned by someone first. Legalizing SSM without voter approval was the ‘first punch.’”

So, by your reasoning, the Civil Rights Act should never have been signed either? Because the majority was opposed to that as well. You’re coming here and acting like you’re in the right simply because you have numbers on your side? You’re an idiot. Get a real argument.

“What’s that supposed to mean?”

It means exactly what you think it means: you should die. Soon.

“I love the strategy of the homosexuals to go after the young voters. What they don’t realize is that young voters grow up, get married, have families, and all of a sudden realize the importance of traditional marriage.”

Yeah, except that they don’t. People who harbor no bigotry in their youth are not incredibly likely to grow up and just decide one day that they hate GLBT people for no good reason. Bigots are made, not born, and your “church” is responsible for making plenty of them. That’s why it must be annihilated.

“There was probably a time in my life when I would have voted for SSM had it been on the ballot.”

And Elvis is alive, and Keanu Reeves is a good actor, and Donald Trump’s hair is real. Give me another one.

“Now that I’ve matured and have a family of my own I’ll fight for traditional marriage till I die.”

With any luck that won’t be much longer. Feel free to take your family with you.

“To claim the tide is turning, or you are somehow winning this war, is to ignore the 31 out of 31 voter initiatives that have banned SSM.”

Not at all. It’s only a matter of time before each and every one of those is overturned. And don’t get ahead of yourself: Maine voters vetoed a single law. They didn’t enshrine bigotry into their state constitution like the others. That door is still wide open.

“Are you that blind to tell me that you are winning the war when less than 24 hours ago Maine just voted against your cause?”

And D.C. voters stood with us. You’re blind if you can’t see that things are already turning around. Your victories are temporary; ours will be permanent.

“You’re like the guy on Monty Python and the Holy Grail that gets all of his limbs cut off and is still picking a fight with the guy that dismembered him.”

You say that like it’s a bad thing. Personally, I have always been inspired by the Black Knight’s can-do spirit and unwillingness to quit. I’d expect that, though, from a coward like yourself.

“Reality is here if you want it.”

I’ve got more than enough, thank you. I don’t need the artificial “reality” being sold by mor(m)on bigots like yourself. Mundane underwear is just as good as the magic stuff.

“SSM isn’t about equality.”

That’s an interesting take on it. It’s a lie, but it’s an interesting one. Or at least an amusing one.

“It’s about redefining marriage.”

Yeah, because that’s never been done before. Your own “church” did it when they backtracked on the polygamy nonsense. Same thing with interracial marriage. And it will be redefined again when SSM takes hold from coast to coast. It will probably even be redefined again in the future. If you care so much about marriage, stop trying to deny it to us. You’d be doing a lot more if you just outlawed divorce. Of course, you and your ilk wouldn’t dream of it. Why? Because you’re selfish, arrogant fuckwits.

“Homosexuals and heterosexuals are all able to marry the opposite sex.”

So, if the roles were reversed, I assume you’d be perfectly content to marry another man. Glad to have that cleared up.

“If you want to use those reproductive parts the way they were intended you can have a marriage all day long in all 50 States.”

And just how, pray tell, were they intended? Because it seems to me that cocks and asses go together quite nicely. There’s a reason the higher power put the prostate where it is, you know.

“When you want tell me that a Phillips head will work on a Flathead screw I have the right to say NO dice.”

Your metaphor is shoddy. You’d have done better to use a “square peg/round hole” analogy, or something like that. Obviously the only thing on your mind is screwing.

Just admit that you’re a bigot, Rod. Admit that you harbor an irrational hatred toward GLBT people, and that you prefer to use your money and votes to legislate discrimination. Admit that you believe you have a monopoly on morality and that anyone who is not a mor(m)on is irredeemable and destined for hell. Admit that you’re a cunt. It feels better to say it out loud.

Those darn Mormons, not reading your comments.

hahahah

-How else do you explain the tired old anti-Mormon rhetoric? If you don’t believe in religion just say so. What the Mormons believe is no more strange than what the Buddhist believe. Just be upfront when you attack Mormons and let everyone know that you are attacking all religions.

All religions are stupid, but not all religions are equally stupid.

Who get’s the privilege of deciding which religion is less or more stupid? Is there some litmus test you apply to a religion that I’m not aware of? I think all of your comments are stupid, but does that prove anything?

You believe that a man who had been arrested previously for fraud

Was he ever convicted? NO. If I accused you of molesting my kids and had you arrested then later you were found innocent…does that still make you a pedophile? You need to get a more current edition of the Huckabee playbook.

found magical gold plates in New York, even though he never let anyone else see them.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/thrwtnss

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/eghtwtns

I guess other than these 11 people and others…

http://www.moroni10.com/witnes.....lates.html

…nobody saw them right? Huckabee’s book is really outdated.

All religious clothing is foolish, but magical underwear is cowardly, too.

yes, it’s all foolish to the unbeliever. Gay marriage is foolish. Anything can be called foolish. It’s entirely your opinion and doesn’t prove or disprove anything. All it shows is your inability to tolerate others because of their culture and/or customs. My favorite part is that Mormon undergarments are “cowardly”. This comment might take some time for me to comprehend. Underwear = Cowardly? WTFlip is that supposed to even mean?

If you actually read what I wrote, something Mormons rarely do, you would find it impossible to deny that “Brigham Young’s FOLLOWERS ordered the massacre at Mountain Meadows.” Whether or not Brigham himself gave the order, it was given and carried out by people he knew and loved. The Mormon murderers dressed as Native Americans in hopes of causing war between two groups of their enemies.

First of all, the MMM was NOT ordered by Brigham Young. To fully understand the events surrounding the MMM you have to comprehend the history of the LDS people and the violence towards them that preceded the event. The LDS Church has done every possible thing they can do to make restitution for the wrongful actions of some of it’s members. The LDS member who orchestrated the attack was executed by other Mormons shortly after. You cannot blame the leadership or other members of an organization for errors or a few. Just because the Homosexual Duke Professor Frank Lombard molested his adopted son doesn’t mean that all homosexuals can be condemned for his actions…or can they?

If you really think gay people are reading Mike Huckabee’s books, you’ve got some thinking to do. All religions are stupid, but not all religions are equally stupid. You believe that a man who had been arrested previously for fraud found magical gold plates in New York, even though he never let anyone else see them. All religious clothing is foolish, but magical underwear is cowardly, too. If you actually read what I wrote, something Mormons rarely do, you would find it impossible to deny that “Brigham Young’s FOLLOWERS ordered the massacre at Mountain Meadows.” Whether or not Brigham himself gave the order, it was given and carried out by people he knew and loved. The Mormon murderers dressed as Native Americans in hopes of causing war between two groups of their enemies.

-If you choose to be part of the LDS Church, you are announcing -not only your opposition to equality for gay people but your -opposition to rational thought.

That is entirely untrue. The LDS Church welcomes homosexuals to worship all day long (ever heard of the group Affirmation?). The LDS Church’s stance is that homosexuals are welcome, homosexual sex is not. The same policy is in place for single Heterosexuals; you are welcome, but sex outside of marriage is not.

-The religious and political opinions of Mormons are not worthy -of respect– they are bigoted, ridiculous claptrap.Mormons -believe in magic underwear. It’s exactly the sort of thing you -would expect from a cult invented by a semi-literate conman.

“not worthy of respect” is fine, but it still doesn’t mean our votes aren’t counted. It still doesn’t mean that Harry Reid (another Mormon who is anti-gay marriage) isn’t running Congress. It still doesn’t mean Mormons have every legal constitutional right to vocalize an opinion on a social issue. If our opinions weren’t “worthy”, then how did Prop 8 pass? You’re in denial. The anti-Mormon jabs are a nice touch too. You and Cam better return Mike Huckabees playbook before he gets ready for the 2012 election. Are you guys working on his campaign or something? Seriously, how can you make fun of the Mormon’s religious clothing without throwing a few jabs at the Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims religious clothing? If you’re going to make fun of religious clothing as a way to discredit the adherents let’s include everyone.

-Racism is central to their belief system, although it has been -largely disavowed in recent years. Still, when the president -was born, the LDS was still teaching that his skin was dark -because he sinned before he was born.

This is blatantly false even though Mike Huckabees book says otherwise. You’re a racist Landon because you’re an American and your ancestors lived here when racism was the norm 50 years ago. What a silly argument.

-Brigham Young’s followers ordered people to be massacred at -Mountain Meadows to try to provoke a race war.

WTFlip are you talking about? Ol’ Huckabee must have just added that chapter. Everyone killed was white, the Mormons were white. Race war? That’s a good one. The only problem is that Brigham Young never ordered the MMM. Logistically it would have been impossible. Independedent scholars have verified this over and over, but no Huckabite is going to believe otherwise, not even Landon.

-Stephen Colbert is working more effectively for gay rights than -the HRC

Hip, Hip, Hooray. You’ve won a comedian to your cause. Too bad the better run, better funded campaign in Maine couldn’t convince 53% of the voters to get in line behind old Stephen.

Americans don’t want you to redefine marriage. Get it through your heads. How many times do you have to suffer a backbreaking defeat to get this?

Then explain to me why Christ told his 12 Apostles to preach the Gospel only to the Jews, then later on in the book of Acts, Paul gets a revelation to take the Gospel to the gentiles. Case-in-point is that you can accuse Christ of being ‘racist’, but for someone that has an understanding of the Gospel that is more than surface deep it makes sense. The LDS Church has never barred Blacks from attending their services. It was a ban on Blacks in the Priesthood only (although there were several Blacks ordained prior to 1978). The Jews only allow decedents of Aaron into the Priesthood, where is the uproar toward the Jews? Cam, you can’t keep stealing pages out of Mike Huckabee’s playbook without using your same tactics on all religions. Why single out the Mormons? Bottom line is; do you believe in God or not? If you don’t, how can I discuss religious doctrines with you. If you do believe in God, do your beliefs stand up to the same scrutiny? “Cam Huckabee”; that should be your new nickname on here.

Chicago “Liberal”. The Liberal who isn’t a Democrat? Very interesting.

Chicago, did you join the LDS Church or were you born into it? There’s a big difference there. I doubt you ever believed it. I can make some assumptions about you but I won’t.

I just find it very ensuring that as a Mormon, how much notoriety and credit the Homosexuals are giving the LDS Church for preserving traditional marriage. To 53% of Maine and 52% of California the Mormons enjoy a nice welcome mat. The byproduct of Prop 8 is that Mormons are now viewed as the poster-boy of saving the traditional family. Mormons couldn’t buy this kind of status. The more homosexuals spew venom at Mormons the more it advances our cause and decimates yours. Just keep doing what your doing because it’s working great for us in Salt Lake City.

Ex Mormons are a dime a dozen because when they are old enough to study and learn about the “cult” and the bigotry they were persuaded to join without knowing the whole story.

Also – you are a imbecile for assuming that I am a Democrat – way off.

So you tell Dallin Oaks (an old professor) to take a hike.

You never respond to any point – you just repeat the same talking points – you are rockstars with the Christian Right – all 20% of all hate and crazy. You should be so proud.

Answer the question – how are the gays threatening Mormons religious freedoms?

Now go page through the Morning Goods while pretending to look at Nephites and Lamanites in mock battles.

Racism is central to their belief system, although it has been largely disavowed in recent years. Still, when the president was born, the LDS was still teaching that his skin was dark because he sinned before he was born.

Brigham Young’s followers ordered people to be massacred at Mountain Meadows to try to provoke a race war.

Stephen Colbert is working more effectively for gay rights than the HRC.

See, here’s why I’ve always avoided arguing the small picture regarding Mormons: the big picture is, the majority of people in Salt Lake City are assholes. What other government would sell a major thoroughfare to a discriminatory religious group? What politician would say, “Well, we need the money, and the gays can always walk somewhere else?” Obviously the politicians are assholes, and sorry, but if your politicians are assholes, it means most of your population are assholes too, or you’d have booted the guys.

Actually, let’s throw in “stupid” here too. Because if some city government had sold a public thoroughfare to a group like the Satanists, and the Satanists stood there and harangued everybody who looked religious, something would be done. Anybody who allows such ridiculous discrimination isn’t playing with a full deck.

Then what was the church’s reason for not allowing Blacks into the church until around 1980? Did you not hate them for being black but you just disapproved of them performing “Black Acts?” You folks will try to find any excuse for your bigotry, just as you did when you wouldn’t allow blacks into your church…it was societal pressure such as schools boycotting playing against BYU that forced the church to hide it’s bigotry against blacks and turn your need to discriminate against another group…gays.

Here in New York there are lots of public spaces in private buildings. The owners of those buildings have absolutely no say over what the public can do in those spaces, as long as they don’t break the law.

Which makes the Mormon Church wrong.

There! That was easy, wasn’t it? It’s called “logic.”

Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the culture’s acceptance of homosexuality.

When marriage loses its unique status, women and children most frequently are the direct victims. Giving same-sex relationships or out-of-wedlock heterosexual couples the same special status and benefits as the marital bond would not be the expansion of a right but the destruction of a principle. . If the one-man/one-woman definition of marriage is broken, there is no logical stopping point for continuing the assault on marriage.

http://www.heraldextra.com/art.....002e0.html

So your leaders are coming after us and we are supposed to just take it?

I am a former Mormon and I know your dirty little “sacred not secret” truths – so the more you go after us it will become our calling to defend ourselves against bigots.

And while you claim a majority rule – we outnumber you in any state anywhere.

Lets ban same sex door to door missionaries preaching hate.

“SSM has a lot of influence on my life and the society I live in.” Exactly how?

“SSM isn’t about equality.” Yes, it is, no matter how many times you say it isn’t. SSM is about getting the 1200+ federal rights of partnership/survivorship that heterosexual couples automatically enjoy with marriage. When you say it isn’t, you’re either being willfully ignorant or just plain ignorant.

1-”business that is not your concern and which has zero impact on your own lives.” SSM has a lot of influence on my life and the society I live in. It has influence on my childrens lives and the future. I have nothing directly against homosexuals personally, but I don’t want the definition of marriage devalued in a way to neutralize the importance of gender roles; i.e. a mother and a father. I believe it is important to have a mother and a father in a marriage and so do the vase, vast, majority of Americans.

2-”You do not have the right to impose your bigotry on the rest of us, no matter what state laws may say about voter referendums and the like.” ‘Bigotry’ is what you call it. I call it ‘Values’. If you don’t think I have the “right” maybe you should take a class in Constitutional Law, or better yet go try and get a SSM in Maine. I have every right in the world to vote according to my values.

3-”you “people” are the ones who threw the first punch that started this war.” Perhaps you missed the part where the voters “overturned” the law. When you overturn something, that means it was turned by someone first. Legalizing SSM without voter approval was the ‘first punch’.

4-”I hope you choke on it.” What’s that supposed to mean?

5-”History is on our side. This war has already reached its turning point. Further setbacks are to be expected, but the tide is already on its way in. As more and more boomer bigots croak, there are more and more fair-minded, modern, intelligent youngsters climbing the ranks and joining the voting pool.”

I love the strategy of the homosexuals to go after the young voters. What they don’t realize is that young voters grow up, get married, have families, and all of a sudden realize the importance of traditional marriage. There was probably a time in my life when I would have voted for SSM had it been on the ballot. Now that I’ve matured and have a family of my own I’ll fight for traditional marriage till I die. To claim the tide is turning, or you are somehow winning this war, is to ignore the 31 out of 31 voter initiatives that have banned SSM. Are you that blind to tell me that you are winning the war when less than 24 hours ago Maine just voted against your cause? You’re like the guy on Monty Python and the Holy Grail that gets all of his limbs cut off and is still picking a fight with the guy that dismembered him. Reality is here if you want it.

SSM isn’t about equality. It’s about redefining marriage. Homosexuals and heterosexuals are all able to marry the opposite sex. It’s not an accident that males and females have different reproductive parts. If you want to use those reproductive parts the way they were intended you can have a marriage all day long in all 50 States. When you want tell me that a Phillips head will work on a Flathead screw I have the right to say NO dice.

History is on our side. This war has already reached its turning point. Further setbacks are to be expected, but the tide is already on its way in. As more and more boomer bigots croak, there are more and more fair-minded, modern, intelligent youngsters climbing the ranks and joining the voting pool. Within one generation, we are going to see a massive turnaround as far as public opinion goes, and the bigots will be powerless to stop it. The time is drawing nigh when mor(m)ons, and all other religiously-motivated bigots, will be seen for the malicious buffoons they are. In the distance, a bell is tolling. Soon, its song will ring from shore to shore. It is the sweet chime of equality, and we all know you can’t un-ring a bell.

Victory will come to us very soon. Repent of your evil ways before it’s too late.

Having NPR and the Daily Show on your side doesn’t really put you in a position to wage a “war of annihilation” on much of anybody.

You seem to be assuming that history is on your side on this one and that “most” of America will simply back you up when you cry jihad on the Mormons.

I think that point is very much in dispute right now, and I wouldn’t be acting so confident if I were you.

I’m calling bullshit. You people do hate us. If you didn’t, you would not be sticking your nose into business that is not your concern and which has zero impact on your own lives. The simple fact of the matter is that, yes, you have the right to disapprove of our lives and loves. This is a free nation, and people are entitled to believe what they believe, no matter how deviant and un-American it is. But, as the old saying goes, your freedom ends where mine begins. You do not have the right to impose your bigotry on the rest of us, no matter what state laws may say about voter referendums and the like. In the secular state, your precious gospel is worth little more than toilet paper. Eventually, we’re going to get enough legislators and judges to understand this, and then you won’t have anything left to prop up your hatred. You’re fighting a losing battle. You know this. All you can do is stall progress.

And you can trot out any bible verses you like. They don’t change the truth of the situation. The ones you chose are actually rather interesting, seeing how you “people” are the ones who threw the first punch that started this war. I know you can’t allow yourself to admit it, but you cretins are not the victims this time. You are the victimizers, the bullies, and you are no better than the 19th century politicians who put prices on your heads.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: fighting against bigotry is not bigotry. We are the good guys in this story, not you. And for your wickedness, your church cannot be permitted to survive. To leave even a shred of its base evil behind would be running the risk of the entire beast regenerating. This is a war that will not end until the lds church does.

Read this again:

“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

Tell me, again…who’s passing laws against who? If you want to see true evil, start by looking in the mirror. All the hatred directed toward you creatures? You brought it on yourselves.

I hope you choke on it.

He is correct that the city of Salt Lake retained a public access easement over the plaza when it INITIALLY sold the property to the LDS Church.

There was a publicized legal fight over the issue where the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against the LDS Church and pointed out that the city retaining an easement meant that the LDS Church could not treat it as private property and limit free expression on the plaza.

HOWEVER….

After that legal fight, the LDS Church traded property to the city of Salt Lake for a new community center in exchange for the city giving up its public access easement.

The City of Salt Lake no longer has a public access easement over the Main Street Plaza and it is now completely private property belonging to the LDS Church. Just as private as nearby Temple Square.

So, they were perfectly within their rights to boot the couple.

Whether it was a good idea to boot them is a completely different matter.

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.”

For the rest of the God-fearing readers out there taking the heat remember these words:

“Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”

@Rodney

You’re welcome. See, I don’t have a problem with you ignorant swine being afraid. There are two good ways to get what you want, and that’s to make people love you or make them fear you. It’s plain to see that you made-up religion following fucktards will never love us, so fear is the only alternative. Next time you send your tender lads out into the mission field, let it always be in the back of your mind that there’s a chance one of them will be knocking on the wrong door sooner or later. Yes, you be afraid.

@HiveRadical

Thank you for repeating my statement. Repetition gives power to words, and those vibrations echo throughout the entire Universe. Say something often enough and it becomes truth. Isn’t that how your so-called religion came about? The day of your church’s downfall will be the most glorious day in human history. I’ll be roasting marshmallows by the flames.

@Something Else

Abso-fucking-lutely. There will be no tolerance or acceptance of bigots who would impose their archaic and outmoded beliefs on an innocent and oppressed people. The more you wretches victimize us, the more hatred you inspire. Keep doing it. Keep attacking us, keep oppressing us, keep killing us. Fan the flames of hatred, and know that those very flames will be the ones which will consume you all. Not every queer is content to play nice and be your doormats. Keep pissing us off and see what happens. The price you’ll be called upon to pay may not be worth it after all.

THAT SAID…my gay brothers and sisters…let’s remember that we are better than the leadership of the Mormon Church, and always draw a distinction between “mormons” and their 12 out-of-touch old white straightmale “prophets”. The interesting thing about Prop 8 was how many gay-lesbian Mormons it forced out of the closet, kind of throwing the church into crisis.

ALSO, everyone should read “Same Sex Dynamics Among 19th Century American: A Mormon Example,” by the famed historian D. Michael Quinn. He uncovered lots of gay aunties in the history of the LDS Church…so they excommunicated him!

Another trick out of the Mormon playbook. They tell them to start off with a compliment, to elevate the people, then to act dissappointed that they have been “Knocked off” the pedestool, or have not lived up to the position. i.e. this persons comment of “I had been told that gays were very tolorant and accepting”. Really? Now just where were you “Told” that? Again, it’s a very typical Mormon argument style. The missionaries are taught it very early on in the training as a way to open a discussion with people to prevent doors from being closed in their faces. Nice try, but again, your bigoted church, that has gone out of it’s way to attack minorities, gays, women, and anybody else that you feel you can cruch beneath you is not in the right. Your church is a wealthy powerful organization that is now engaged in the modern equivilant of the Spanish inquisition. Your church STILL hasn’t apologized for not allowing blacks to be members until nearly 1980. Do you think people don’t remember that? The ONLY reason you let them in was because other schools were boycotting playing BYU and your church was getting horrific press. Now that you can’t publically attack blacks you have moved onto the next group you think you can attack. Nice try, but if your way of life was so wonderful you wouldn’t have to try to force it on people now would you? You are hate filled, bigoted evil folks. The best thing you can do is to keep putting your church’s true face out there so the rest of the world can see it for what it really is. The 19th century version of Scientology.

YES! They have taken the bait!

The (leadership of the) Mormon Church is now full-in as the opponents of gay rights, “mixed” marriages, and gay-lesbian-bisexual-transgender-intersex-allsexual-queer-etc people.

Does everyone realize how great that is?

If there is any group Americans, evangelicals included, hate more than the gays, it’s the Mormons. AND THEY ARE ALLOWING THEMSELVES TO BECOME THE NEW FACE OF GAYHATE! That is the best thing our little social justice movement could have happen to us.

Hiveradical, and other LDS representatives, a question: In 1976, the leader of the Mormon Church, facing a very angry IRS, had a convenient “vision from god,” telling him to drop the theology that as black people atoned for their sins they would become white. What year do you predict the LDS leadership will receive their visions about rejecting homophobia as they did racism. My money….2018. Yours?

and vernon, I just have to copy what you said because your embrace of hate demonstrates that you’ve never been against hate–

“At the risk of sounding like a fundie bigot retard…fuck the facts. After what they pulled with Prop 8, the mor(m)on church is an enemy, worthy only of contempt and destruction. If there is any incident with a mor(m)on on one side and a GLBT person on the other, I’m siding with my people. I don’t care if they’re blatantly in the wrong. I don’t care if they got caught red-handed defacing mor(m)on property or if they’re accused of murdering a mor(m)on grandmother…if they’re queer, I’m on their side. Any calamity that befalls the lds church is karma giving them a bitchslap. The only way the mor(m)ons can ever make up for the evil they have perpetrated against us is to cease to exist.”

With enemies like you we gain so many more friends.

You said–

“They struck the first blow by taking away my rights (so much for calling them rights if they can be removed by the fiat of the terminally stupid)and wrongly assuming I’d be amenable to living according to the dictates of their church.”

Actually we weren’t the ones who came out and tried to redefine marriage by changing the core component of marriage that has never changed throughout human’s history. Yes marriage changes, yes it evolves, but just as is true with evolution if you alter certain core components you can change something from being viable to not. Viruses for example have structures that mutate all the time while other structures, if they ever mutate, are never passed on because the occurrence of such mutations makes the virus no longer capable of replicating itself. YOU are the ones that made the first attack YOU are the ones trying to usurp and force a transformation on society and culture. You’re welcome to your own view on what is and isn’t good for society and culture, but don’t be disingenuous and say that WE started this. Nothing is further from the truth. Please be truthful. Own it when you are the one trying to overthrow a societal standard that hasn’t changed in all of history. Again don’t go off on this stupid ‘marriage has changed all the time!’ shtick, this is not a mere change, a mere modification, this is a redefining OWN IT AS A REDEFINING.

You have the same rights I do. The fact that the sex of an individual is not equatable to skin color doesn’t mean that you have less rights or that we’ve taken away something you ever rightfully had. You can marry someone of the opposite gender and I can marry someone of the opposite gender. THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CORE AND UNCHANGING COMPONENT OF MARRIAGE THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY.

YOUR SIDE FIRED THE FIRST SALVO. YOU STARTED THIS. TO CLAIM OTHERWISE IS TO LIE AND ATTEMPT TO DECEIVE This is a war to overthrow culture and your side is the side seeking, not to merely modify or evolve or to tweak or merely improve, but to completely redefine and co-opt marriage at it’s core.