They say imitation is the highest form of flattery, but “they” clearly weren’t referring to the Westboro Baptist Church.
The Bible-thumping gang that just loves to hate recently put out the most nails-on-a-chalk-board version of Panic At The Disco’s pop-punk anthem “I Write Sins Not Tragedies,” which they call “You Love Sin What a Tragedy.”
Here’s a brief selection of their lyrical brilliance:
What a shame they’re all fags pimps or whores.
Haven’t you people ever heard of obeying the word of god? No, you all rebel against the king of kings with a sense of pride and immorality.
You’re all insane, fags are profane.
But Westboro isn’t stopping at merely butchering the group’s hit. They also announced plans to picket Panic’s show in Kansas City, Mo this past weekend. Because apparently there weren’t any bigger sinners to harass that day.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Well the band fired back in just about the prefect way imaginable.
Frontman Brendon Urie (who is married to a woman but doesn’t shy away from talking about past experiences sleeping with men) and co. posted this message to Twitter, pledging a $20 donation to HRC for every Westboro protester:
Today @WBCSays is going to picket us. For every member of WBC that actually shows up we will donate $20 to @HRC #pride2014
— Panic! At The Disco (@PanicAtTheDisco) July 20, 2014
Turns out only 13 members of the church showed up (unless you count the “myriads of angels” ugh). Perhaps because they knew they’d be funneling money into a gay rights organization by doing so? We’ll never know. For their part, the band thought a $260 donation was a bit lackluster:
Thank you @WBCSays for the update on the total amount you donated to @HRC today. $20X13= weak. We’re going to make it an even $1000. — Panic! At The Disco (@PanicAtTheDisco) July 21, 2014
And they didn’t stop there:
We will also be donating 5% of our total merch sales from this show to @HRC
— Panic! At The Disco (@PanicAtTheDisco) July 21, 2014
Congratulations, Westboro, for once again proving you can get so little accomplished by doing so much.
Here’s their god-awful rework of Panic’s hit:
More on Westboro Baptist Church:
Dugan
I give them credit for creativeness. Lol. Hash tag Assholes
Dakotahgeo
Westburro Baptist Church barely survives and the GLBT community thrives! And God DOES LOVE the GLBT Community and its supporters!
Mezaien
1. is there JEWS, in the Vatican? NO! Christian get out of Israel.
2. is there JEWS, in Mecca? NO! Muslim, get out of Israel.
DarkZephyr
@Mezaien: Your words have nothing to do with the article.
jonjct
@DarkZephyr: it’s the only life he has. ignore him and he will die off slowly.
SteveDenver
BRILLIANT! Thank you WBC for supporting HRC.
Not only is Brendon married, but he had a ceremony that made this queen SWOOOOOON, his bride was a vision of cinematic splendor (with stunning footwear), and his coterie of men was lovely. I could picture myself in Sarah’s place.
http://greenweddingshoes.com/glamorous-malibu-wedding-sarah-brendon/
Queer4Life
I love WBC. Thank you Westboro Baptist Church for all the great work you do promoting acceptance, tolerance, and respect. Your work is truly accepted (and I am not being sarcastic). Fred Phelps you are truly missed, and thank you for the greatest prank the world has ever seen.
And the award for Best Queer Ally of 2014 goes too… Westboro Baptist Church. We would like to take this moment to thank these fine folks for promoting acceptance by making all the other straight people declare “No I’m not a bit shit crazy homophobe like those people”.
Masterterradil
Article writer! You do realize, at its peak, WBC had only 22 members. Or was it 26? I could never understand how so small a group could, and still can, get some much attention when larger groups doing better things can’t even get the time of day.
monceaux_h
What kind of Christian uses the word “fags”? I am a Christian, and as one I believe that God is love. NOWHERE in the Bible does it tell us to hate people. In this scenario who is showing the love? Who is helping the persecuted? Way to go FOB! You’re more Christian than the Christians.
Humblyme
Have traditional editing skills gone out the window in the blogsphere? Why is there no explanation of HRC in your article? I dont’ understand the connection to the Housing Rights Council, do you have to be hipster to read your articles? Not the best way to share your ideas. . .
dataguy
@monceaux_h:
You do realize you are completely wrong about the Bible. Off the top of my head I can think of two places the Bible commands its followers to hate. Jesus himself is quoted as saying that if you don’t hate your mother/father/brother you are not worthy of the Kingdom.
You are an are probably on the same side of LGBTQ issues, but I respectfully suggest that the WBC is actually following the Bible, which is why I consider Christianity immoral.
therabbit5
Haha. That song’s pretty funny. I know they’re a bunch of jackasses, but it’s a pretty good parody.
SilverFoxfire
So much for a “kinder WBC”. Looks like they couldn’t pin all of their hatred on dear old dad after all.
Also, not to detract from the awesomeness of the article, but:
“… the prefect way imaginable.”
egee
Excellent response, and one we should all emulate. Whenever those haters show up, we should all donate to our favorite LGBT organization.
The only objection I have to this article is the video of their “song.” No reason to participate in spreading their hatred. Otherwise, great article!
SilverFoxfire
@Humblyme:
It’s the “Human Rights Council”, not the “Housing Rights Council”. If you click on any of the HRC links in the article, it bounces you to their Twitter page where you can find out more about what they do.
SilverFoxfire
@Humblyme:
** Human Rights Campaign, gosh. I need to be able to edit, please. 😛
phiphenom
@dataguy: Not sure if you just heard that phrase once and never fact checked or what but you are wrong. Jesus said that you cannot be a Disciple if you do not hate, and he listed things you can hate. He goes on to say more after that about how sinners need saving and need to follow him. This is common throughout the Bible. Jesus travels with sinners and lives his life with sinners because they are the ones that need him the most.
Single quotes from the Bible are misleading in both directions. Only full chapter quotes can relay the true message being said.
mmb
@dataguy: Please don’t attempt to quote the Bible when you obviously know nothing about it. You left off some very important words. The quote actually reads …
“If any man comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters — yes even his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
That “yes even his life” is very important part of the passage. What the passage is trying to say is you must hate your selfish, prideful, emotional life enough to hunger to be different. Think about it is selfish pride in one’s family, tribe, nation, race, sex, religion (which is different from God) or whatever group of likeness that makes us feel secure and superior that leads us to doing all kinds of evil in this world. To truly follow Christ you have hate that which separated us into categories.
If the Westboro Wackos (I will never call them Baptists. It is slander against Baptists. They aren’t Baptists. They have no affiliation with any Baptist organization.) Anyway if the Westboro Wackos were truly following that passage they would not being doing what they are doing. Because they are not hating evil within their family instead they are feeding it. They are just continuing the legacy of their power-hungry crazy patriarch Fred Phelps. The Westboro Wackos isn’t really even a church. There is only about a couple dozen of them and they are pretty much all related. That is not Church but a bat-shit crazy family that should just be ignored.
Poggy
@phiphenom:
“And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
Are you saying there is some context where this, which is common throughout the Bible, is okay? What is the context that I am missing? It says there, explicitly, word for word, exactly what god supposedly commands. What is the context that makes this okay?
God also tells you who you can enslave, how much it costs to keep a slave, how to identify a slave by driving a whole through their ear. Have you not read that part of the Bible? This whole “context” nonsense is bullsh*t, and it’s a way to soften the issue.
Captain proton
@Mezaien: yallah tachzor le-ima shelcha, yeled katan (amazing what you can get away with now that comments can no longer be flagged)
Loveall
This is as disgusting as you think sin is. You’re entitled to your opinion but is it morally right; to go around and spread such a message that will NOT bring any sinners to Christ. Isn’t that the whole point? It’s ridiculous how you act like you are better than everyone else. News flash, you are human too. You sin everyday intentionally and unintentionally. This response is not doing anything but adding fuel to the fire. Learn how to preach or just don’t say anything at all. Nobody wants to hear what you have to say if they do not believe it in the first place.
SpiritualNotReligious
@dataguy:
I am sorry. I have to pipe up here.
Bible verses are often figurative.
Jesus did not mean to literally hate everyone and yourself.
He meant that you have to be prepared to put your family and yourself second, on easy days and on stressful ones.
Follow and praise Him.
Let Him guide you.
He does not want a disciple that only turns to him when they need help.
SpiritualNotReligious
@dataguy:
Most humans do not like when friends only come to us for help then stop talking to us when they do not need it.
Followers of Jesus should not expect Him to like it. 🙂
rbaudo
“But if we’re being technical, you must count myriads of angels!”
LOL, was WBC trying to raise more funds for HRC?
Devin Pimentel
To my “lovely” WBC people. Haha:
? I chimed in with a haven’t you people ever heard of finding people who can actually sing, no? ?
There is this “lovely” place in hell for “lovely” people like you. Please, feel free to head to your vacation spot anytime you wish. If you don’t mind, permanently stay there. There shouldn’t be any complications in Hell. Pfft.
mrrdickey
@dataguy: Answer: First, we must take this verse in the context of the chapter. Jesus is teaching His disciples, and like any good teacher, He begins with a truth statement that is hard to understand in order to get His students thinking. Then, He clarifies the difficult truth statement with a metaphor. The truth statement is the confusing verse 26, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.” So, if we don’t hate our family and our own lives, we can’t be His disciple. But does He mean we are to have real hatred for our parents?
Next, Jesus relates a metaphor about a man who builds a house without counting the cost and finds that he cannot follow through with what he set out to do. He leaves the house unfinished because he cannot pay what is required. Jesus is showing us the explanation to His difficult statement—that we must count the cost of discipleship. This is the point of the passage. In order to be a disciple, we must be willing to give up everything for Jesus. Therefore, if our parents will not follow Jesus, or even if they disown us for being Christians, we must still choose Him over them. It is in this sense that we are “hating” our family members who reject the Lord or reject us because of the Lord. This is not easy, and of course it is right that we should love our family members and want our family members to love and follow God. After all, 1 John 4:7-8 says “Beloved, let us love one another for love is from God and everyone that loves is born of God and knows God. The one who does not love does not know God for God is love.” And that is only one of many passages commanding us to love others. But despite our love for the people we know, here is the key: if they don’t love Jesus, He must still be our first priority. We must esteem Him more highly than the people we love here on earth and we must love Him more than our own lives. In fact, we must love Him so much that our earthly loves pale in comparison, even to the point of seeming like hate.
Second, let’s take it in context of other places in the Bible. Matthew 19:29 says, “And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.” So, here is the promise: God has required total commitment from His followers, to the point of heart-breaking separation from any natural family members who reject Jesus, but in heaven we will have a hundred times what we lost—an entire family of believers who love Christ and who love us! Even the material things that we had forsaken in order to follow Him will be given back to us in a form a hundred times better than what we lost! So, He is a good God, after all, and, no, He does not want us to literally hate (viciously despise or wish harm to) the members of our family. All we are required to do is choose Jesus over them even if they force us to do so by rejecting Him.
Jesus may have chosen the word “hate” to show us that this is how a mother or father will perceive the actions of a child who chooses the Lord above them. They will see it as disloyal, especially if we try to witness to them. The love of a Christian for a non-Christian is almost always seen as hatred, intolerance, bigotry, etc. But we must be okay with being seen as “hating.” After all, our unbelieving relatives are part of the world, and Jesus said, “”If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first” (John 15:18).
renegade
@Poggy: poggy, about the whole deal with slaves, you also have to realize that during those times people lived in different times and the whole equal rights thing wasn’t around.aybe if you would read the entire bible and not just bits and pieces that you want to or things that are “key topics” maybe you’ll learn more.
Poggy
@renegade:
No I’m sorry. The Bible says word for word, owning other people as property. It’s not out of context, it’s not twisting anything. It tells you who you can enslave, how much it costs, and that you can beat them as long as they don’t die within a day or two. Different time or not is irrelevant, this was specifically sanctioned is commanded by god, who also happens to tell you how to trick your fellow Jews into being your property forever by giving them a wife. What is the context that I’m missing that makes this okay?
By the way, I’ve studied the entire Bible, several times, and that is what in part lead to my atheism. So your accusation that I should read the entire Bible is bullsh*t.
Oh and do you know what Jesus said about slavery? Maybe something like “Hey you know that slavery stuff commanded in the old testament? Yeah we got that wrong. Thou shall not own another human being as property.”
NO! He says “Slaves OBEY your masters.”
Thoughts from and invisible person
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
-Mathew 7:1-5
Now The verse that sticks out the most in this.
“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.”
Honestly I don’t understand why people who say they are devoted to following the word of God decide that is is 100% acceptable to pick and choose what they want to follow and throw the rest away like it is not applicable to their life. I know that I am no way in a place to judge these people, but it would be nice if they started to read the book that is basis not of their religion but their relationship with God. If they bothered to look at the bible as a whole instead of bits and pieces they would realize that some things are wrong in the eyes of God, but so is judging people because of what they believe.
Once aging since I know people will argue my point: I am in no way shape or form able to judge these people on either end of this argument, but I do believe that people should actually read the scripture before they do this sort of thing.
Thoughts from and invisible person
@Thoughts from and invisible person: By the was this was quoted from the English standard version. But if you need an easier version to comprehend here is another one: “Don’t judge others, or you will be judged. 2 You will be judged in the same way that you judge others, and the amount you give to others will be given to you.
3 “Why do you notice the little piece of dust in your friend’s eye, but you don’t notice the big piece of wood in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your friend, ‘Let me take that little piece of dust out of your eye’? Look at yourself! You still have that big piece of wood in your own eye. 5 You hypocrite! First, take the wood out of your own eye. Then you will see clearly to take the dust out of your friend’s eye.
6 “Don’t give holy things to dogs, and don’t throw your pearls before pigs. Pigs will only trample on them, and dogs will turn to attack you.” -New Century Version
amelia417
@Humblyme:
Honey, HRC stands for Human Rights Campaign. You’d ought to make sure you know what you’re talking about before you leave a post.
Jkster
@Poggy, I am an agnostic, and many of my friends are atheists. Most of them prefer to call themselves humanists, freethinkers, or some other such term, because a few atheists go around telling everyone how much they hate religion. In fact, most of the well-known modern atheist “philosophers,” such as Dawkins, Fry, and Hitchens, demonstrate a fervent dislike for religion that rivals some of what WBC can cook up.Hate is hate,whether it can from butter-side up or butter-side down. So you may hate the Bible…well, fine. But need you share this with everyone else?
rsamboragal
I think the Bible has some really good stories. I think Readers’ Digest has really good stories too. That is all.
just me up here
Ok so a little background, I was raised Catholic but my mom and I got kicked out of the church when she asked for a divorce. I’ve questioned the whole ‘Idea of God’ ever since then.
In my opinion, God never asked anybody to truly ‘hate’ anybody. When he uses the word ‘hate’ he means in comparison to himself. As in you must love Jesus so much that it will almost seem as if you hate everyone else in comparison. The way that West ‘Babtist’ Curch is responding is childish and immiture. How can someone as horrible and angry as them believe that they will ascend to heaven?
And on another note, when did everybody get so sensitive about each other? Why does it matter to you if someone else doesn’t make it to heaven? You don’t like them in the first place, right? Shouldn’t you be glad that the people that you hate will be eternally tortured in hell? And to dispel confusion, I support gay right 100%. I have loved some pretty big douches before, but it wasn’t my choice. God wanted me to meet all those people and I’m glad he did. I have learned so many lessons from them.
So in conclusion, could somebody get their heads out of their ass and legalize gay right already? I’m finding it hard to sleep with all this bullshit in the air.
Poggy
@renegade:
Agnosticism and atheism aren’t mutually exclusive. Either you’re a theist, or you’re an atheist. Within those two categories, you can be an agnostic atheist, gnostic atheist, agnostic theist, or gnostic theist. Under most definitions I’m an agnostic atheist, although I generally just identify as an atheist because belief is more important than knowledge. But you can’t simply be “agnostic”. You are atheist, or theist. You believe the claim that a god exists or you don’t. I don’t hate religion, and I don’t hate the Bible, I just happen to enjoy the discussion of it, and the debate. As an atheist, I’m also a freethinker, a humanist, etc, but that doesn’t answer the actual question of “do you believe in a god or not?” If you do, you’re a theist, anything else, you’re an atheist, and it’s ridiculous to try and rename yourself as “freethinker” or “humanist” to try and soften your position so it doesn’t offend people, or so you don’t identify with other atheists. Why not just own up to what you are instead of muddling the issue?
“Dawkins, Fry, and Hitchens, demonstrate a fervent dislike for religion that rivals some of what WBC can cook up”
Nonsense. Pure, unadulterated nonsense. Those guys don’t go around picketing funerals of dead soldiers, exclaiming god hates fags. They give honest responses to the claims about god, which in NO WAY is similar at all to what WBC does. You’re just fucking wrong.
Jkster
Look up “strong agnosticism,” my own particular brand, which lends itself well to no conclusion on the existence of God, i.e. neither theism nor atheism (not that theism is philosophically synonomous with religion, see deism, but that is a lesson for another day.) Finally, lets just give one example. Hitchens had a rather interest tangent where he compared religion to bubonic plague. If you are truly informed, you probably have read it.Now just mentally replace religion with homosexuality.I think it sounds a lot more fun.In truth, I see a lot of what looks a lot like hatred in your posts–especially this last one!
Poggy
@Jkster:
Well I’m sorry but, you’re just wrong. Either you believe a god exists or you don’t. That means you’re either an atheist or a theist. And you can claim I “hate” all day long, but now you’re just assuming what’s going on in my head, which is laughingly stupid. I hate certain aspects of some religions, sure, but I don’t hate people for being religious. There is a difference. You can’t be just “agnostic” or even “strong agnostic”. You either believe the claim that a god exists, or you do NOT believe the claim that a god exists. You don’t withhold belief until you know; knowledge is a subset of belief. You have it exactly backwards.
Jkster
In anticipation of your next argument, which will likely be more of the same, and cognizant of my slim chances of convincing you of the value of respect of kindness, I shall sign off with (almost) the words of the immortal Psy. With regard to your comments:Oh my God, dammit, there’s no f*king limit.
Poggy
Respect and kindness? You’re entirely too stupid to talk to. Respect and kindness are irrelevant, and have nothing to do with making a logical coherent argument or participating in a discussion. If you’re wrong you’re wrong. And I haven’t once said anything disrespectful and unkind, except perhaps up to now. But the reality is if you are going to claim you know what’s in my head, that is stupid. If you’re going to claim that you’re an agnostic, and not an atheist or a theist, you’re wrong. If you’re going to quote Psy, well I don’t have anything to say about that one other than why do I care what Psy had to say?
cfxmouse
@dataguy: No, it’s you who is wrong. “Honor thy mother and thy father and your days will be long’. The only thing you can hate is evil and sin. You’re not even supposed to technically Satan, because that’s what Satan wants you to do. Hating makes it easier to make dumb decisions about the people you don’t like. Most of all, you are not supposed to judge people. That is God’s ‘job’ alone, and taking it into your own hands will get you sent straight to hell.
cfxmouse
@Poggy: Slaves were, for the most part, treated much more fairly back then, than the slaves Rome owned. You were family. That’s not to say that some individuals didn’t flog their slaves, cause there’s always that 2% of people who do the wrong thing. America’s slaves were lucky if they got donkey piss to drink.
Poggy
@cfxmouse:
No, you’re just wrong. And I don’t care anyway, owning another person is wrong, I don’t care how you treat the slave. Regardless, it was ordered by the god of the OT to beat slaves, drive holes through their ears, etc. Are you seriously justifying slavery? Why couldn’t god just say “Thou shall not own another human being as property”? Why did he ENDORSE owning other people? Why did he order Moses to WIPE OUT the Midianites and keep the virgin girls for themselves? (Most of whom became slaves). The Bible is a cavalcade of immorality, and for you to even pretend to justify it is absurd. You do realize American slavery was justified by what is IN the Bible? That’s how they tried to say, we can own slaves because it says so in the Bible. You’re making a post hoc rationalization and it’s absurd.
dtownsend
The bible? the bible was written by men and men are flawed. even if you believe some of them were commanded by God to write certain things, you should believe that some of those men would have taken the opportunity to inject a few of their own rules into the mix.
The Bible is so full of contradictions and hypocrisy that no one should really try to defend their actions by saying “it’s in the Bible”. It says God is a loving and forgiving God but right off the top of my head, I can think of three instances where God shows he’s a merciless prick. Asking Abraham to sacrifice his own son Isaac, which apparently was just a test of loyalty. That’s pretty F’d up. Who would follow someone that commands you to kill your own child, even if it’s a joke?
The killing of first born children that weren’t protected with lamb blood on the door. This was part of the plagues of Egypt. So instead of killing the rulers that were keeping Moses’ people enslaved, he killed their children , who really had nothing to do with the situation.
Flooding the Earth. Also called the Great Deluge, it’s documented in various civilizations, most notably Summerian. But in the Bible, God makes it rain for 40 days and nights and commits global genocide, leaving only an old man and his family with a literal boat load of animals.
There’s more but I could write several books about this type of stuff that’s found in the Bible. The point is, there’s also a lot of acceptable behavior in the Bible from back in the Old Testament that when you read it, sounds like the kind of things we condemn radical Islamists for doing.
One of the major problems with the Bible is, people are innoculated at an early age and are conditioned to understand the Bible from a certain perspective. They are taught not to question anything. That way, it makes them easier to control and ensures that if one of them is molested by their minister, that they will keep it quiet because that’s what God wants and if they tell anybody God will kill their family and they will burn in Hell for eternity.
I don’t know how that conversation would really play out but that’s how I would imagine it might. I personally think religion is necessary for people that need it. The people that just can’t accept life as it is and have to believe in it to make it through life or else they would unravel. Those people need it. But it shouldn’t be forced on people and it shouldn’t interfere with other people’s lives.
Religion should not be used for harm but for good. When you hide behind your church and the bible to bash gays or whatever you might be against then you’re doing it wrong. The main message out of the bible is love, tolerance and believing in something better. But leave it to organized religion to put you behind the eight ball right out of the gate. We’re all born sinners and we must repent, repent, repent and do exactly as they tell you or else.
These same hypocrites that claim God is in control and created everything can’t accept the fact he also created homosexuality. it’s not a sin, it’s just nature & science. It’s futile to talk to people that have been brainwashed though. And one more thing about WBC, they’ve been figured out for what they really are. They’re not a real church……they’re extortionists. It worked for a little while until people started standing up to them.
Unfortunately, I think they just say what most religious people probably think. We live in a different era where WBC look like extremist idiots but if this was happening back in the 50’s or 60’s, there would be many, many more people out there right beside them. We’ve come a long way since then but don’t think they are just some isolated case of inbred assholes. under the right circumstances, WBC could be huge group much like the KKK used to be. The only difference is, the KKK were against skin color, which is hard to defend with the bible although they tried. WBC at least has the bible which supposedly claims God hates gays as ridiculous as that sounds. You’d be surprised how many people will blindly follow someone with a hateful agenda because “God, Jesus, the bible said……”
brokenbubbles
@Poggy:
Hey asshole. Here’s the definition of agnostic: “a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.”
By definition, an agnostic is one who does not believe in one or the other. I’m sorry that you’re too much of a closed-minded prick to actually ever take anyone else’s words with any hint of truth. So, to stick to the trend you started, you are absolutely fucking wrong. I believe in the possibility of a god and I also believe in the possibility of there not being a god; therefore, I am neither theist or atheist. It’s as simple as that. Stop trying to sound smarter than you are. Your attempts at regarding your own speculations as fact are simply laughable. Have fun entirely disregarding everything I just said. Your superiority complex is astounding.
Poggy
@brokenbubbles:
Wrong, wrong and wrong. As I already stated, knowledge is a SUBSET of belief. We act in accordance with our beliefs. Dictionary definitions on this are irrelevant. An agnostic is, by definition, someone who does not claim to know that god does or does not exist. However, the question isn’t what you KNOW, the question is whether you believe. That statement comes in the form of either you do believe, or you DON’T believe. Theism and atheism. You can’t be neither a theist nor an atheist. That’s impossible. Either you accept that a god exists, or you have not been convinced that a god exists. Once again, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be neither atheist nor theist. Just like it would be IMPOSSIBLE to be a stamp collector or NOT a stamp collector. Either you collect stamps, or you do not collect stamps. I don’t know why this is so fucking difficult for you. And who’s the one with the superiority complex fucker? Opening with “hey asshole”, and saying “stop trying to sound smarter than I am”. I’m sorry that you’re butthurt, but I’m not pretending to be smarter than I am, I’ll go head to head with you on general knowledge any day of the week.
“I believe in the possibility of a god and I also believe in the possibility of there not being a god; therefore, I am neither theist or atheist.”
Now just so you don’t accuse me of disregarding what you said, this statement is completely false and you’ve kinda jumped the shark. The “possibility” of god is not the question. The question that atheism and theism respond to is “DO YOU BELIEVE A GOD EXISTS?”. Not “DO YOU THINK IT’S POSSIBLE?”. Theism is a positive claim, “I believe a god exists”. Atheism is a rejection of theism. “I am not convinced a god does or does not exist.” You are, by your own definition, an atheist.
LilyYuki
-INSERT PISSED OFF NATSU FACE- man that really pisses me off! u think PATD is the only band that uses these kind of words!? dont go picking on a band because of that when theyre not even close to the only ones who use that kind of language!
dataguy
Wow, I discovered Queery and decided to never visit Queety again in the same weekend. What a coinkidink.
roguemouser
You know, if we keep giving these morons a platform, they’ll keep standing on it and shouting. It’s the publicity that keeps them going — as long as we give them free advertising, they’ll keep spreading their filth and hatred. Ignore them. Don’t publish anything about them, ever, and tell all the other media outlets to do the same. WBC will dry up, die off and not even be a memory. Best thing that could ever happen to them.
onegod
@Poggy:
Poggy the real problem is that you think you are smarter than any human being and you practically think you are smarter than God. That’s the problem. You can have your human based logic but reality is that you are going to have to face judgment like the rest of us. The other truth us that you have not studied The Bible in its entirety. If you did you would not be making such ludicrous statements as you have all ready done in this thread. Without the holy spirit you would have given up before you finished genesis. You are so conformed to the ways of the world that you have completely closed your mind to the fact that The Bible is real and God is real. You can look at the way our ecosystem operates and know that there is a God. You can look at how children are born and know that there is something far greater out there than you can comprehend. All theories about a big bang and monkey mutations are thrown away. We are not here due to a random collision. We are here for a reason and we have a purpose! Just like the Muslims who abuse their religion and say it allows them to commit terrorist acts, Christianity has many who abuse its name. Most Christians in America don’t read their bible except on Sundays when they go to church so this type of behavior does not surprise me. It is important that one reads The Bible for themselves and understand that this us no ordinary being who inspired these readings. It was the one and only God. You will never be smarter than the one that created you whether you like it or not Poggy. God can change your heart. Not one word of his book will fail. If you open your heart and mind to what he is trying to tell you, you will realize how perfect his plan is for humanity. If everyone loved their neighbor as much as they loved themselves we would be living in perfection but the sin of man won’t allow him. That’s why we need God and his spirit. God loves everyone just not our sin.
FouetBarak
@Poggy: The funny thing is, I agree with your analysis of the Bible. But your whole point is being reduced to nothing because your premise is wrong : knowledge is NOT a subset of belief, and can never be… unless you’re a bigot.
Let’s make this clear : the only people whose “knowledge” is a consequence of their beliefs are superstitious / religious nutjobs. They’re the ones who claim “I BELIEVE there’s a God so I’ll act just as if I KNEW it. I’ll act just as if my belief was truth for everyone and that everyone that doesn’t recognize it is not just different : they’re WRONG.” This is why your whole point can’t stand : you’re using a way of thinking that defies reason and is used by the ones you’re criticizing.
Knowledge isn’t based on what you believe. It’s based on what you’ve been taught, which is a completely different thing. I don’t “believe” Jupiter is a planet, I know it. I don’t “believe” humans are made of 70% water… on the contrary, I find it quite hard to believe because we don’t look like we are… but I KNOW we are. Because science is verified fact. It’s knowledge. Most of the time it contradicts belief, and that’s how we move forward as a civilization : by eradicating belief and replacing it with knowledge as much as we can. Actually I think one of the reasons we’re not as advanced a civilization as we should be is that there are too many people claiming that knowledge is a subset of belief. It’s not. It’s the opposite. What we believe depends on the person ; what we know doesn’t. Knowledge exists outside an individual’s personal vision. Knowledge is absolute. Read Descartes again.
When it comes to God, I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THERE’S A GOD OR NOT. I have no firm belief regarding this particular point. Sometimes I’m absolutely convinced there’s no God, sometimes it appears clear as day to me that there is one. So in the end I have to admit that I don’t know. At all. My only firm belief in this is that I’ll NEVER know. So yeah, I’m an agnostic. Not a theist or an atheist, just an agnostic. It’s quite simple really.
memow
LOL If we stop giving them attention they will go away. They are not real Christians they survive off of peoples reactions.
Poggy
@FouetBarak:
“knowledge is NOT a subset of belief”
Actually, I’m sorry, but it is. You’re just flatly wrong. We act in accordance with our beliefs, not in accordance with our knowledge.
“Not a theist or an atheist, just an agnostic. It’s quite simple really.”
As I already showed quite clearly, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to be not an atheist nor theist. Those are two prongs of a single issue. Either you believe or you do not. You may waffle sometimes but that just means you go from atheist to theist, and back and forth. Once again, you’re just wrong.
“Knowledge isn’t based on what you believe. ”
Yes, it is. You believe something BEFORE you know it, and everything you know, YOU BELIEVE. If I know the sun will come up tomorrow, I also BELIEVE it. I can’t know something and simultaneously not believe it. That is a logical impossibility. I can however, believe something and NOT know it.
Poggy
@onegod:
“Poggy the real problem is that you think you are smarter than any human being and you practically think you are smarter than God. ”
Nope. Don’t think that, never said it. But thanks for presuming what is going on in my mind.
“You can have your human based logic but reality is that you are going to have to face judgment like the rest of us.”
No. I’m not. The Bible is a work of fiction.
“You can look at the way our ecosystem operates and know that there is a God.”
No you can’t. Nature is proof of nature, it is not proof of supernature.
“You will never be smarter than the one that created you whether you like it or not Poggy.”
First, prove I was created, and prove there is a creator, then prove that it’s intelligent. Have fun. Good day.
Poggy
@FouetBarak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xYfdTNkmGE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Epistemology
PyroDes86
started cracking up at the “God hates Fags” commentary on Fred Phelps. the way ive found people wanting and attempting peace and unity in the world we live in breeds the inability we as humans have at times. seems to me those unwilling to cope with the hardships and triumphs we face in life, should not be commended or respected after they are gone. i mean no disrespect towards those religious, however, if i find it your business (which it is not) who i sleep with and/or share my life with, whether i sit in the house of god or not – it is not for you to dictate me. i pose no more threat in a bed with a man nor a woman or both than you do, to you, your children, your law, your bible or your society. if you think otherwise, the problem is clearly not mine.
akh1991
Christ’s mandate to us that we become “wise as serpents and harmless as doves” implies that we must develop discernment, the ability to detect motivation and the spirits that motivate. The gift of discerning the spirits will become increasingly important as we approach the end of this age because deception will be the hallmark of these extremely dangerous times.
In the Olivet Prophecy, the disciples ask Jesus to reveal the sign of His return. Jesus does not give one sign but several. At the top of the list, he warns the disciples of deception, and follows it up with warnings of false prophets, false miracles, and the warning not to be deceived (see Matthew 24:4-5, 11, 23-26).
We deduce from this last warning that false “Christian” ministers and ministries will have the capability of performing convincing lying wonders and signs. These false ministers will demonstrate power—occult power—for the specific purpose of leading all people astray, including the most sincere believer.
We have a clear warning from the apostle Paul that the battles we face on a daily basis cannot be won by conventional weapons that we can attain from the world. The weapons we must seek should be spiritual, having the power to destroy arguments and every false claim that sets itself up against the knowledge of God and God’s Word (II Corinthians 10:3-5).
TheaM
@Jkster: Criticizing religion is in no way the same as criticizing homosexuality. The former is an ideology that someone chooses, the latter you are born with and cannot be chosen. Ideologies are open to criticism, and one should be able to criticize someone’s religion the same way they can criticize their political affiliation, especially if that person’s beliefs are interfering with the law-making process and with the way that the rest of us live our lives. I’m not saying I agree with Dawkins, Harris etc. about everything, but I strongly dislike the notion that while some religious people are free to criticize our choices, on the basis of their religious book, the rest of us are supposed to sit quietly so as not to offend them. There’s nothing wrong with being intolerant of intolerance.
akh1991
Jeremiah 20:11 But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten.
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
“And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.” -Luke 17:26,27
We also read that the last days shall be like Sodom and Gomorrah…
“Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.” -Luke 17:28,29
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.