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We’ve Trained the Media to Think We’re Rich and White. That’s a Problem

gaywhiteshirtless

We’ve noted the perception of whiteness in the gay rights movement before. Some folks insist on making race part of the debate; others times, the evidence is irrefutable. And without a single leader, however, it’s impossible to say our civil rights fight is led only by the light-skinned. But to anyone tuning in to the media’s conversation on the issue, it might appear that way.

In a well-reasoned thought exercise, Pam Spaulding wonders aloud just how harmful this whitewashed version of gay rights might be. While we should applaud the Signoriles and Savages (the Dans, not the Mikes) for stepping on the soapbox, without people of color on the teevee grandstanding for gay rights, the community inherently shuns support from blacks, Hispanics, and Asians — gay or straight.

pride09maddow

Not helping things, argues Michael Petrelis, is that our own branding of what it means to be gay is an exercise in exclusion. This website has shown how that’s played out.

It’s hard to argue the image of the gay community that’s exported to the rest of America isn’t one of white affluence. That’s the story the media loves, and it’s the one that ends up in the New York Times Wedding section. Poor gays? Black lesbians? Less newsworthy. (Don’t even get us started on rural transexuals.) But that’s certainly not the reality. We’re a diverse group, whether it comes to race and ethnicity, class and economic status, intellectual and uneducated.

Maybe it’s time we make an effort to start showing Americans that while they may not know a Dolce & Gabbana-wearing, AmEx-flashing, McSweeney’s-reading homo, we’re still part of their inner circle of friends and family and colleagues.

(Photo via)

By:           editor editor
On:           Jun 22, 2009
Tagged: , ,
  • 107 Comments
    • timncguy
      timncguy

      and what does the picture posted with this article have to do with anything?

      Oh, I see, you are trying to prove that there are poor gays because apparently none of the ones you ever picture can afford clothing???

      Jun 22, 2009 at 11:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      It is pretty white…and incredibly bigoted too!!! I’m at gay-rights functions all the time and I was really shocked to hear those words coming out of gay white mouths…they should know better!!

      Jun 22, 2009 at 11:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ben
      ben

      thank you. finally.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • homofied
      homofied

      This is a tired argument by people who traffic in hate. Because gayness is not based on people’s politics or proclivities other than sexuality, of course gay people run the gamut, from republican to racist to radical. But the gay empowerment movement has always been incredibly inclusive, and in most places gay bars are among the most diverse in terms of their clientele. As for whom you choose to reference as relevant in this posting, here is the truth, from the SF Chronicle headlines:

      AIDS activists charged with stalking – Two taken into custody, held on $500,000 bail after hearing.

      Bob Egelko, San Francisco Chronicle, 11/29/01

      Two AIDS activists were arrested in a San Francisco courthouse yesterday and charged with stalking and making terrorist threats against city health officials and staff members of The Chronicle. David Pasquarelli and Michael Petrelis were held on $500,00 bail each. Both had come to Superior Court for a hearing on civil harassment suits by two public health officials and five Chronicle reporters and editors, all allegedly the targets of threatening telephone calls. They were arrested in a hallway after the hearing.

      “No quarantine of gay men in San Francisco!” Pasquarelli shouted as he was taken away in handcuffs.

      Pasquarelli is a member of ACT UP/San Francisco, a group that has clashed with mainstream AIDS organizations over its belief that AIDS is not caused by HIV. He and other members have been convicted of disturbing the peace for disrupting public health meetings and throwing objects at officials, but yesterday’s felony charges, punishable by a sentence of as long as three years in prison, raised the stakes considerably.

      “Stalking is a crime of mental terrorism,” said Reginald Smith, spokesman for District Attorney Terence Hallinan. “The defendants have been on a campaign of terror against these victims, who fear for their safety and for their families’ safety.”

      Petrelis is the hater, not the other way around as he always claims.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheBigotBasher
      TheBigotBasher

      It is not as though gays are free of stupid bigots either. When Queerty and AmericanBlog quite rightly attacked the President for the DOJ’s DOMA brief, (although I still argue the target for the attack was wrong) all kinds of KKK Queens crawled out of the woodwork.

      As witnessed in these comments

      http://www.queerty.com/obamas-minions-admirably-defend-the-sanctity-of-doma-in-federal-court-20090612/#comments

      I guess there remains far too many of us that forget that the people who burn crosses also like to participate in a bit of gay bashing.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • a. mcewen
      a. mcewen

      Homofied, I am a black gay male and there is a point to what Petrelis said.

      a few questions:

      How many lgbts of color have you seen on the cover of the Advocate magazine? What is the ethnic orientation for the people always cited or quoted as a credible source for the lgbt community?

      How many prominent lgbts of color (activists, lawyers, doctors, etc.) can you name? And I’m not talking about just celebrities. By the way, there are many who are open and out.

      Can anyone tell me how lgbts of color feel about marriage equality? Have their opinion as a group been solicited?

      Why when we outreach in the mainstream black community do we solicit comments from past civil rights leaders such as Julian Bond and John Lewis instead of bringing home the fact that lgbts issues are black issues because they affect lgbts of color?

      I am not the only lgbt or lgbt of color who have asked these questions. But when we do, we get ridiculous assurances about attendance at clubs and gay pride events. The question is why is it hard for some lgbts who aren’t of color to talk about the lack of power for those who don’t fit the model in our community?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • drresol
      drresol

      I dunno…I think the image on the magazine covers may just reflect what the target audience likes to see. Which brings me to a can of worms I probably shouldn’t open, but I’m going to anyway…

      Amongst my group of friends are 2 gay, black males. This topic actually came up once, and I was surprised to learn that both of them had an exclusive preference for white guys. And I’m not theorizing about that, they both stated it point-blank and were even rather unapologetic about it. Whats more, neither could really give a definite reason why.

      It’s something I’ve always wondered about, though. They are, apparently, not alone in this preference among GLBTs of color. I guess it’s sort of one of those questions, “which came first, the chicken or the egg?”. Have my 2 friends bought into the media image presented? Or, is the media simply presenting what is already desired? (the white abercrombie-boy)

      //not trying to make any sort of statement or offend anyone, btw. I’m all for diversity and equality. It’s just something I’ve always wondered about but kinda been afraid to ask.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dontblamemeivotedforhillary
      dontblamemeivotedforhillary

      and Buff!

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tired of the bitchin
      Tired of the bitchin

      Well, the black, Asian and Latino portion of the gay community is free to get off their asses and start to represent. Especially the black portion of the gay community — wouldn’t hurt for them to actually stop being cowards and actually come out within the black community.

      But no, by all means criticize and bitch about the people who ARE willing to show their gay faces to the world.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DBaines
      DBaines

      The idiot above that posted about how the gay community is one of inclusion and diversity is obviously making some fantasy up about the gay community as he goes along. It’s well and nice to say that as white people, but as a person of color it’s absolutely not true. I’m happy to say that society as a whole is growing moderately more accepting and inviting to people of color such as myself, but that can’t be said about the gay community. The gay bars are exclusive, the gay parties for certain shades of people only. I’m lucky that I never receive the outright shunning in “straight” society that I do as a person of color in gay society. While that’s just altogether cruel to gay people who had the “misfortune” to not be born white, it’s stupid for the gay community if it’s trying to operate politically. And to argue to a bunch of LGBT of color that the gay community is one of inclusion, you’d just get laughed at.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Gene
      Gene

      @Tired of the bitchin: Haha, are you blaming lgbt of color for not being rich, connected, and part of the movement? HEY DUMBASS, they’re not allowed into the movement in the first place. Maybe if you stopped ghettoizing us both in reality and in your minds, we’d have a place at the table alongside you… but that would play on your racial fears of white heroism wouldn’t it?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 12:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Larry
      Larry

      I’ve always thought Pam should go on TV. She’s perfect for it. Maybe CNN will see a “blue sky” opportunity in its effort to compete with MSNBC and Rachel Maddow…

      At the same time, I don’t think it helped when Madame Jasmyne had her 15 minutes last fall, with her inflammatory LA Times column and appearance on Fox News. If we don’t want the media and their audience to think we’re all rich and white, then the last thing we need is a black lesbian who, as a black lesbian, reinforces that image in people’s minds, as a black lesbian (she loves to use that phrase multiple times in each article, which is good, because halfway through her LA Times piece, I totally forgot she was a black lesbian and thought she was a blonde-haired bisexual man from Finland).

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      The reality is that not only does it hurt with PR, but also hurt us in terms of people understanding how we are harmed by homphobia. The practical example I use is the perception that if all of us are rich and gay, then it’s harder to explain to people why you can’t afford the tons of lawyers to cover the cost of trying to write ironclad (not possible) legal agreements regarding our relationships. It is only when you realize that they are “all rich” line is a lie that you start to see the real harm. I am not saying rich gays do not experience this harm, but it is just not the same as some working in a blue collar job who needs the definition of marriage because she and her partner are raising kids. Or, we do not see the impact of losing jobs when it is assumed that we can just quickly find another. What happens if we are low income working in a factory? The list goes on an on. These are the stories that are hidden, and that is hurting our mutual cause to not show the realities of our community. Who does this fantasy of gay wealth serve? Certainly not the gay community as a whole.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Larry
      Larry

      I’d like to add that I think one way to help counteract the gay=rich/white perception on a personal level is to just get to know a few GLBT people of color as friends.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jennifer
      Jennifer

      Ummmm…how about rich, white and MALE?

      Androcentric, in fact.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony
      Anthony

      This is a strange blog. You write about the gay rights movement being whitewashed. Well, don’t you thing you contribute to that with all your postings of white models on your morning goods. Come on, this whole blog is nothing but a big sterotype.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lorne
      Lorne

      Ummmm…how about rich, white, male, YOUNG, BUFF and HAIRLESS! As in the pic in this article and all the “eye candy” postings here on Queerty. Oh, and no doubt HUNG, too.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mike
      Mike

      Total bullshit. Black men already serve as spokemen to a portion of the gay community. Without them the term “down low” would be meaningless.

      Perhaps the stereotype of the gay community being white would go away if black people actually didn’t strive to stay in the closet.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Aaron Khan
      Aaron Khan

      @drresol:
      Well then, in the end, we’re just pandering to what an overwhelming majority wants (e.g. good-looking white rich men) rather than including EVERYONE. This goes against everything the gay community stands for and ultimately fights for: Equality. The same thing happened with ads for Prop 8. Not much gays were shown in order to ease the impact and cater to the majority’s homophobia. We cannot afford to satisfy a majority’s insular preferences if we want equality.

      If the images of gay culture are limited then other people’s perspectives of gay culture will be limited. Promoting diversity, promotes tolerance.

      Gays 40 years from now will look at us and see how the gay community was just as narrow-minded as they claimed their opposition to be.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DS
      DS

      Good post.

      Except one thing. Deeds not words. Without inclusion of men of color in your eye-candy feature, this post seems tokenizing and powerless.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Larry
      Larry

      I concur with some posts above and would like to see more men of color in the Morning Goods… I know there are some there already, but not very many.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlwaysGay
      AlwaysGay

      Facts

      * Non-white gay people do NOT come out in the same percentages as white gay people do. Black GAY people are way more likely to identify themselves as bisexual or heterosexual.
      * Non-white gay people do NOT participate in gay activities in the same percentages as white gay people do.
      * Non-white gay people are NOT as independent as white gay people are. Non-white gay people tend to stick with their family even under heavy oppression.
      * Non-white gay people tend to stick with their family’s politics which usually are conservative and the antithesis of gay values like egalitarianism.
      * Non-whte gay people are told in various ways from an early age that homosexuality is a white thing and/ or a elitist thing.
      * Religious attendance is higher for non-white gay people.

      Just a couple days ago I was listening to a black radio show and the host was going off on how she didn’t want her child around gay people, didn’t want him to grow up to be effeminate or gay and said gay people were dysfunctional etc. Soon a black gay man calls in (he doesn’t say he’s gay but you can tell) and he praises her up and down. Non-white gay people seem incapable of calling out anti-gay bigotry when the person spewing it is of their own race. I’ve called every anti-gay bigot out since I came out.

      It took 50 years from the time Susan B. Anthony cast a ballot to the time women were legally allowed to vote. It’s been more than forty years since the first gay couple challenged the law to get their marriage legally recognized. The marriage issue along with every other issue are still being resolved because of heterosexual politicians’ bigotry and inaction. There’s a log jam of gay issues.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • homofied
      homofied

      When I 1st came out (in a deep south town where is was not so safe to do so) the local gay bar was owned by a black gentleman who also owned a local black straight club. The gay bar was the only game in town and everyone went. My best friend in those years was Tim, aka Crystal Blue. Tim was a stylist at an upscale salon by day, and the impresario of the gay scene by night. When the cops would raid one bar, the owner would switch out the venues, which made for some high entertainment in the paring lots right after the switch. Tim’s shows were 1st rate. Out of drag Tim was built like a linebacker, and feared no one. One time he whipped a handgun out of his dress, on stage, when a heckler got too rowdy. Tim may not have made the cover of Advocate, but he made the cover of our local gay paper many times. Tim once confided to me that another, smaller gay bar in town would actually pay Tim on a per-call basis to phone friends and ask them to meet him out for a drink. He was such a popular draw that the bar would fill with unsuspecting friends of Tim. Tim also introduced me to Mardi Gras. After the club closed one night, he said, “want to go to New Orleans?” We all said hell yes. We loaded into Tim’s snappy new Buick and headed south, with the performers still in their make up. We were pulled over for speeding outside of Meridian Mississippi by the classic State Police cliche of bubba cop-dom. He took one look at Tim and sent us on our way. In closing, all I can say is that no one ever keeps a diva down.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JG
      JG

      I started reading this blog after Obama won back in November, mostly for the jo material, but all the same I’m a politically involved man of color. I for one was disappointed that Prop 8 passed, and I never felt it was particularly black people’s fault. It was primarily the fault of those who were extremely religious and old, which included black people, but only as a function of their religiosity. I noticed that a lot of the people commenting on this site were ignorant of this, and believed that black people were denying them their humanity. Also, I noticed how much of an obama bashing blog this was. Yet I always realized I supported president Obama more than I would ever support the gay community.

      First of all, I believe that Obama, in a world unbound by political restraints, would do everything he could to legalize marriage. We just don’t live in that world, however. Nevertheless, I find myself in the odd position of supporting a man who is vilified by he gay community, even though I’m a black gay man myself. Perhaps it’s because as somebody said above, I feel ghettoized, even though I’m well-educated, pretty successful, even (pardon me, haha) good looking. I feel like when people say “gay community” or “gay rights” its almost always rights for white people, acceptance for white gay men, and they’re not talking about me. When people talk about institutional racism, some white people will quickly complain there’s no such thing. But never having been black, hispanic, whatever, how would you know? Similarly, there’s a colossal amount of institutional racism in the gay community – such as gay bars, gay dating life, gay parties, gay pride even – and how would white gay men, who for the time being make up the majority, even understand that?

      I never feel comfortable witnessing this community of people who exclude me on a daily basis claiming they are being marginalized by my black president. Even though I myself am being marginalized, I find myself mentally choosing to support a black man being torn down by a “white mob” rather than side with the gay community on this debate. This is of course unrealistic, but many people of color view it this way, gay or not gay.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JD
      JD

      @DS: @Anthony: Your comments are, frankly, ridiculous. As a guy of mixed race, I’ve made sure we regularly feature men of color on Queerty. These took about 15 seconds to find:

      http://www.queerty.com/photos-come-see-le-20090610/

      http://www.queerty.com/photos-jeremy-tang-is-bad-ass-20090528/

      http://www.queerty.com/photos-aw-hell-its-ramel-20090608/

      http://www.queerty.com/photos-bowen-flex-20090518/

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • timncguy
      timncguy

      @JD: you’re right, it not race that is an issue for who Queerty features here. It’s age and body hair that you rarely feature

      Now, go find your list of the 3 or 4 men over 35 that you have featured in the last 6 months or so.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 1:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • andy_d
      andy_d

      @JG: Obamas’ race has nothing to do with the Gay rage going on now. It is about him and the Deocratic Party marginalizing the GLBT community and allowing outrages statements about our community be used as fodder to support legislation he publicly announced he would get repealed (DOMA). It is also about refusing to issue a “Stop Loss Order” – well within his purview as Commander-in-Chief until he can/will accomplish another promise – that of repealing DADT.

      By declaring him your “black president,” how would you feel if someone declared Clinton his/her “white president.” Do I sense a bit of racism there?

      I, for one, am sick and tired of all sides playing the race card, be they black, asian, latino/a, white or any other ethnicity.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jarvisbearcub
      jarvisbearcub

      How about getting a BEAR on the cover of the advocate? The community has emerged from a marketer’s demographic concerns as much as anything else. Rich, affluent consumer bases.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony

      Come on people! We have no one to blame but ourselves! It is WHITE Hetero-normativity that has got us to this point in the first place. This whole battle over ‘eqaulity’ is really a battle of who can mimic the heterosexual marriage structure the best.

      Whiteness and Hetero-normativity seem to go hand in hand, if we’re gonna fight for equal rights, we need to show people that it isn’t just gay white men and white lesbians that equal the sum of the LGBT community. QUEER REVOLUTION – NOT LIBERAL INCLUSION.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • eagledancer4444
      eagledancer4444

      Last week, I was listening to the Diane Rehm Show (for those of you who don’t listen to National Public Radio, this is a decades old program that features topical issues in a more “liberal” frame work—hey—it’s NPR. Joe Solmonese, president, Human Rights Campaign
      Bishop Harry Jackson, senior pastor, Hope Christian Church, were asked to speak about Civil Rights for the Gay community.
      Here’s what I wrote for the “Conversation” portion of the show’s website:
      As a Person of Color (American Indian) I consistently feel frustrated when shows like yours (which, btw, is one of my favorites) in an attempt to have some sort of “balance” end up with a panel of a Black conservative facing a White Gay male and telling him (and listeners) everyone should dismiss the comparison of civil rights between the Gay community and African-Americans. This is really a “no-win” situation for a spokesperson who is White. It really takes another Black person (or Person of Color) to challenge someone like the Bishop. I was also disappointed that the Bishop repeatedly did not answer direct questions put by Diane or the other guests, but simply took the opportunity to repeat obvious “sound bites” that weren’t relevant to the issue. I thought this particularly true when it was pointed out how many states permit a person to be fired solely for being Gay or Lesbian. I also thought another Person of Color on the panel would have been in a much better position to refute the Bishop’s dismissal of Gays and Lesbians as being a “small privileged group,” obviously blind to the fact the Gay and Lesbian community embraces all categories of social economic realities (including the homeless and the disabled) and all People of Color. But it’s hard to get this point across when the person representing the G&L community looks like all the stereotypes the Bishop is trying to “sell.”

      And–Tired of the bitchin–sorry to see that once again American Indians were “erased” from a list of “minorities” even if in this case a list of people to criticize for not being in visible leadership positions. During the Millennium March, the organizers asked me to speak at the event. I flew out and upon my arrival, I received a phone call telling me, “We’re so tight for time, we won’t be able to let you speak, but we want you to up on the stage so everyone can see you.”

      Starting in the 1970s, when it became more “P.C.” to recognize that People of Color exist, there was a issue of institutional racism, where agencies and organizations wanted People of Color to be visible—but to be silent and excluded from input. This has been one of the historical challenges of integrating the GLBTQ community on a number of levels.

      Oh—and J.D.—self-identified “mixed race guy” who seems a tad defensive that Queerty “regularly features” men of color, and spent 15 seconds to prove it…I’m sorry to say I must have missed the American Indians who have been showcased on Morning Goods.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • seb
      seb

      Oh and by the way, we’re not all muscle Mary either and sometimes, we wear T-shirt and , worst case scenario, jumpers…

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • anyway
      anyway

      What’s with all these WORDS?!

      Can we just get back to the hot young naked white guys, Queerty?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • timncguy
      timncguy

      @eagledancer4444: JD has good reason to be defensive. IT’s not just “Morning Goods”. ON a typical day at Queerty, there are two, three even four posts of some sort of “gratuitous skin”. And, I would guess that over 90% of those feature young, white, hairless A&F model types.

      If you figure 3 a day, 7 days a week, there are on average 21 opportunities per week to show some diversity.

      How about making the effort of have a couple older men, a couple hairy men, a couple men of color EVERY WEEK. That means you could still have 15 A&F models every week as well.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony

      @eagledancer4444:

      “And–Tired of the bitchin–sorry to see that once again American Indians were “erased” from a list of “minorities” even if in this case a list of people to criticize for not being in visible leadership positions. During the Millennium March, the organizers asked me to speak at the event. I flew out and upon my arrival, I received a phone call telling me, “We’re so tight for time, we won’t be able to let you speak, but we want you to up on the stage so everyone can see you.””

      Race is used as a media image of ‘democratization’ or ‘equality’, rather than a true representation of the conditions and issues of the community itself within the larger population. Institutionalized Racism is still very much alive and kicking, and unfortunately is completely re-perpetuated in the LGBT community.

      Here’s to change my friend.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Larry
      Larry

      @eagledancer4444: I was happy to read your post, especially about the “erasure” of Native Americans.

      And that really is the problem with a lot of these gay-rights debates. You can’t really have a white guy like Joe Solomonese telling a black guy like Harry Jackson about civil rights and expect audiences (particularly with black audience members) to take him seriously. I mean, George Takei could pwn someone like Harry Jackson in a minute.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dabq
      Dabq

      Like it or not, this is what the world see’s when it comes to gay rights, rich, white men. They don’t know that lesbians of color would really benefit from same sex marriage more than anyone else. They don’t see the black gay men fighting in the trenches for HIV education and fighting the hate filled preachers. They don’t see the Hispanics trying to get funding for gay issues that need to be translated into Spanish. All they see are white, allegedly rich guys, which is a hoot as I know dirt poor white gay men, but, as long as that’s the face of the gay fight, its going to be an uphill battle since few see white men as needing any help in a system set up for them.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M Shane
      M Shane

      Couldn’t be more correct Tony! Most gay white middle class queens are in such a rabid race to attain the chicken shit Respectability that they think will construct a safe new closet for them that they are more than ready to leave any and all people who either can’t or just don’t care to hide out behind.

      Assimilationism, mainstreaming: A Sullivan’s and B Bawer’s delusional right wing haven for those who never got over hating themselves and got ready to make an authentic culture, community and life. Why not be racists if you’re going to be sexists, etc. It’s not hard to figure out or see if your’re not running to fast to the alter to think what he whole picture is.
      Gay America has never been more pathetic or embarassing.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 2:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Giovanni
      Giovanni

      @ Derresol To briefly answer your question: It’s complicated but self hatred is at the heart of the matter in any man of color who would deny his own beauty.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 3:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • asianinla
      asianinla

      Okay, I started reading the comments, but had to stop due to the frustrating posts. Here’s an article from Reuters entitled, “California gay marriage fight goes to Chinatown”. It just came out this week.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE55I02M20090619

      Gay Asian Americans are engaged and we are out. It’s just that most gay (read: white) publications and media just seem to ignore us.

      Oh, and if you’re talking about resources, the LGBT leaders of the No on Prop 8 gave very little resources to help with this minority outreach. That’s why we lost. They had millions of dollars, but only spent it on a certain segment of the community that they felt comfortable with. In the end, they ended up screwing all of us.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 3:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      Jg

      I am black. You are retarded. Good luck with that.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 3:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      CAN YOU PEOPLE STAY ON TOPIC?

      I read most of these comments, and they literaly have nothing at all to do with what Pam’s post was about or this one. It’s like talking to someone with severe ADD.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 3:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      My issue is that sometimes the community tries almost too hard to say “Look at us! We’re diverse!”. In a pro marriage ad I recently saw my friends and I were laughing because we could just imagine the casting call for the participants.

      Lesbian Couple with multiple tattoos? Check
      Extreamly conservative Cosby-like Black Gay couple? Check
      Young queer/Punk Lesbian Couple with multiple facial piercings?
      check
      Earth Mother Lesbian couple barefoot and holding children? check
      Mixed race Asian White gay couple? Check
      Mixed Race Latina White Lesbian Couple? Check
      Mixed race Black White Lesbian Couple? Check
      And last, but not least, Gay white Male Couple? Check.
      So yes, the community can also seem to be very white, but the community also can look ridiculous and panicky trying SO hard to prove that it is diverse.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jjm16
      jjm16

      @ the few rabble-rousers above: who would’ve guessed this would dissolve into a meaningless argument of blame?

      @ the few rabble-rousers above: dumba##es.

      Whereas gay rights groups have been open to the possibility of inclusion, we live in a segregated nation where progressive-minded groups must realize the value of diversity within their ranks and actively seek out minorities. Our ranks have too long been led by passionate “individuals” with too little focus on any inclusive human rights strategy, which is how every downtrodden group has succeeded in fostering change.

      I think this topic vibes well with the question regarding leadership in the gay rights movement. Perhaps we don’t necessarily need a minority leader, but @ least we (need to have)/(could have) an enlightened individual who constantly acknowledges this issue and keeps it in mind. (my vote for maddow! lol).

      Jun 22, 2009 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • I pliss
      I pliss

      @drresol: perference doesn’t have anything to do with being black Hispanic or Asian. I am a mixed black man. I am out to my friends. I like white men. but lately I like Asian men. Does that mean I want to only see Asian men on the cover of a mag representing Gay America?

      This has a lot to do with up bringing. Most blacks were told being gay is bad. Scared to come out because of dis own-ment. Which was instilled in a lot of black America. I say black because not everyone is Afro-American in the country. My point is most black men don’t come out of the closet. They may be out to a few people but at work, college friends, straight friends, they are not out. Most are successful and feels that coming out may hinder their out come of job, friends, and/or family if you will. Nevertheless, we are out there. In a white dominated gay society it’s even harder to try to become an advocate. Many whites in the gay society still doesn’t respect a gay black man. Most of them see them as gay thugs, Muscle queens, or Mary’s running around in drag. Because of that we are stereotype before even seeing or knowing our credentials. Trust me I know! We’ve seen time and time again, that most of the black kids that go to circuit parties or gay clubs that has every type of gays mostly like white men. And don’t even want to be associated as a black male. 1) because of stereotypes within the black gay community. There is nothing wrong with interracial dating believe you me. But as far as Black men being more noticed on a positive note. They have to find the ones that are out proud and successful. I am out proud and successful. But would I want to go and be in the public eye as a public official as a gay black man? No. that is my choice. However, I do work with a non profit inner city gay youth center.

      Besides, there are a lot of Black gay events going on but you have to search for it. It’s not known like white gay events. Florida has a black circuit party every memorial day. But you will quicker hear about Gay Disney than you would here about Sizzle. How about white gay America not be afraid to go to a black event and cover the parties, Or go to a Black pride and see who the organizational leaders are and see if they would like to be recognized. I’m sure they will but we have to want to talk to one another. Only then will you START to see more blacks in the media as a promenent figure. Again, I say this because most blacks feel like they have to have there own functions and organizations because they feel like the white gays don’t want them. Still segregation with in the gay community. that needs to stop.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 4:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • J. Clarence
      J. Clarence

      It’s a fact we’ve lived with for years. While it goes without saying the urban African-American community for example, which represents the majority of African-Americans, are generally more conservative than whites; the fact is the queer community has not been very welcoming either.

      If African-Americans, or anyone from a ethnic minority, does feel that they will be welcomed in the Queer community, exactly what is the incentive in coming out and risking whatever retaliation there might be. Rather there is a lot of pressure to deny who you are for the sake of staying in a community that on the surface appears supportive.

      It certainly is changing (though not quick enough), but the Queer community needs to step up its game if it wants to be able to tap into a large, and ever growing, segment of the American population.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 4:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The Gay Numbers
      The Gay Numbers

      Yes- we can certainly see the community tries too hard- by community you mean of course white. And that in and of itself is why there something wrong in Denmark.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dabq
      Dabq

      @homofied: I guess this was before Les Natali and the group that had to organize to fight racial profiling in the Castro that even made its way to City Hall, “Castro for all” took a stand and let out the dirty little secret, so, as for “diverse” gay bars, just where are those? If, it can’t be found in San Francisco, LA, or NYC,where is it? And, as for hiring gays of color, the last place you will see that is in the “ay ghettos”of this country, unless its some black woman singing or a burly black guy doing security.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 5:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      @drresol: It’s very simple. Your two black friends have been unknowingly brainwashed by the media and society at large. You can find just as many straight black guys who prefer white women and black lesbians too. Their minds have been poisoned to the point where they think that people who look like them are undesirable. It’s just self hate (although people want to deny this).

      Jun 22, 2009 at 6:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TADPOLICUS WEX
      TADPOLICUS WEX

      @jarvisbearcub: Word brother bear, word!

      Jun 22, 2009 at 6:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @RainaWeather:

      Their minds have been poisoned to the point where they think that people who look like them are undesirable. It’s just self hate (although people want to deny this)

      That’s pure drivel, and you know it. By your line of reasoning, white men who like blacks are self-hating?

      Asians who like whites are self-hating? Etc., etc.

      Human sexuality is diverse and who are you to say what attracts one person to another is wrong…or self-hating?

      Is your name Kinsey?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      @schlukitz:

      You can call it pure drivel all you want. I have talked to enough blacks who prefer whites (to the exclusion of blacks) to know that they are brainwashed. I used to be one of these people. And yes, Asians who prefer whites (over Asians) are self-hating. And Whites who prefer Black guys probably have some deluded fantasy that all black men have big penises and are sexually uncontrollable. Don’t think of this simply in terms of sexuality. For instance, if a black person thought that all white people were smarter than black people, we’d call that self-hating. if a black person thought that all whites were more well-behaved than black people, we’d call that self-hating. If a black person thought whites better than blacks in any way except in a sexual way, we’d call that self-hating. So why not when it comes to sexuality? How can a person who truly loves himself or herself look in the mirror and think “I exclusively want a person who is NOT like me”? How can you love yourself yet hate those who are just like you? You don’t have to be Kinsey to observe the world around you.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 6:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      raina’s a crazy pants. Ignore that person.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jim
      jim

      And just when I thought the idea of a gay “community” here in Cleveland was a joke, I read all the preceeding comments on this post. My god, we DO have a community here, and it’s apparently so far ahead of either coast (if what I’m reading above is accurate) that it’s literally shocking. Our bars are truly mixed, racially and in terms of economic levels, always have been. There is definite black and asian attendance at the local danceclubs. Really the only groups which seem lacking, on the gay scene, are the latinos (I only know 1 personally, a latina lesbian), which is surprising since we have very large mexican and puerto rican communities here. My doctor is asian, activist and very out and proud (he founded the Pride Clinic at one of the major hospitals here), I have a black lesbian friend at work who brought the album of photos of the ceremony she had with her wife to share with everyone (no negative responses, and our workforce is black, white and latino). I notice that more black lesbians here seem to be totally out vs. black men. One of our most celebrated local drag performers (now deceased) was black and was one of the most talented I’ve ever seen and worked in ALL the clubs (um, she did her OWN singing, no lip-synch shit for her!)

      What I find interesting is that the gay monthlies (Advocate, Genre, etc) seem so far removed and out of touch with everything here in the midwest, and always HAVE been. It gets to the point where I flip thru them and throw away without really reading them because there’s no SUBSTANCE of midwest real life to be seen. But, maybe that’s because a lot of us around here don’t buy into the whole “rich, white, male” idea of what gay IS. By the way, I’m a white male, 49 years old, old a BFA but am definitely NOT in the upper percentile of wage-earners.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TomEM
      TomEM

      Good article. Thanks queerty.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 7:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @RainaWeather:

      I used to be one of these people.

      Yeeeesss. Just like Donnie McClurkin.

      “These people” I love it.

      Booga. Booga. Booga.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 8:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @TANK:

      I agree, Tank. Raina is a crazy pants.

      She sounds like a separatist. “Don’t go near any of those people. They, you know, look different from us.”

      And if that doesn’t smack of racism, I’d sure like to know WTF does?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 8:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      The gay community is run by white gay men. Check
      There’s racism in the gay community. Check
      People of color are ignored, marginalized, and fetishized in the “gay community”. Check

      Reading this article on queerty of all places is pretty ironic, considering this site is part of the problem it’s addressing. Check

      And for the record anyone who PREFERS to date, fuck, or socialize with other ethnic groups in lieu of their own is SELF-LOATHING. This is completely seperate from people who can see the beauty and humanity of all mankind, so don’t get it twisted.
      This is not about preference.

      This is a racist world we live in, regardless of delusional fantasy world whites seem to inhabit on their own. Whenever marginalized people of color can’t see the beauty in themselves, and have to seek it out in some Abercrombie aryan fantasy, it’s destructive, sad, and pathetic. If you can’t love yourself, how can you expect anyone else too?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 8:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Afrolito, Amurika is run by a man who is HALF African American. No gays in his cabinet. LGBT people are the only ones who do not have full equality. LGBT people never got the benefit of affirmative action programs. LGBT people are the only people raised by their oppressors. I have never heard of a person of color being kicked out because his or her parents discovered that he or she is a person of color, but gay kids get kicked out and fed to the wolves daily. The list of how LGBT people are more oppressed than ANY (READ ANY) other group goes on and on and on……

      Jun 22, 2009 at 8:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony [Different person #1 using similar name]

      SO many gays are so filled with self hating homophobia and identify with any other group they happen to be a member of, because they think that group is SUPERIOR to LGBT people. You know who you are AFROCRAZY (I didn’t coin that name for you but if da pumps fit, wear them in full Michelle Obama drag).

      Jun 22, 2009 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony [Different person #1 using similar name]

      And while you are playing Michelle (make sure you work those man arms) strap it on and bend over Barry Obama, wrap him in your big manly arms, and make him giggle all girly like.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 8:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • billyboy
      billyboy

      LOVE, people. Love is what makes us strong. Hate tears us apart and makes us weak. Let’s start by loving ourselves on the inside and send that out to the world. – Love, A Young Multiracial Lover

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @Tony:

      You become more moronic with every post, and your ridiculousy cheesy name-calling in lieu of a legit argument only proves it in spades.

      Absoulutely NOTHING I said was untrue, and anyone with half a brain read it as truth.

      Btw, I guess in your warped reality, the fact that The President is black, somehow erases the centuries of racism, and ended full-stop with his election. The sheer arrogance and stupidity of your reasoning is breathtaking.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Afroretard

      “proves it in spades.”

      Do not get all racist on me.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @afrolito:

      This is a racist world we live in

      And with reverse-racist comments like that, you sure as shittin’ aren’t doing anything to help change that unfortunate situation, are you?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • afrolito
      afrolito

      @schlukitz:

      It takes a special kind of EPIC delusional arrogance to deny racism exists, and to have the audacity to call someone a racist for pointing out the FACT of it’s very existence, both institutional, and socially. Like WOW.

      Reverse racism = MYTH

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Reverse racism is real. It is simply racism. Yes, people of color can think in racist terms. Just look at Afroretard.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • KyleR
      KyleR

      Ok, I only read some of these comments. And I HATE this argument. The racism that exists in the world, whether the people be gay straight bi, whatever. Every group is racist to various degrees.

      In the clubs that I went to in Seattle when I lived there, in EVERY SINGLE ONE of these clubs, the majority of the various races grouped together. The Asians were together, the Blacks were together, the Latinos were together. And at the edge, you had all the white people that happened to like those groups.

      And with the media, you have to remember, that they go with the largest common denominator. And if that denominator is a white buff guy because they can sell their magazines, then that’s what their going to slap on the cover.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Tony:

      For people like Afrolito, denial is just a river in Egypt! LOL

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @schlukitz

      If only Afroretard would go to Egypt. You know what happens to teh gays there (and in most of Africa for that matter).

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @KyleR:

      Every group is racist to various degree

      How true. And, it wasn’t that long ago that a Jewish woman would say to her son “You brought home that shiksa (Gentile woman)to meet me?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alejandro
      alejandro

      im a mixed hispanic/canadian boy :P and i dont know bout you guys’ places but the clubs here/gay community is pretty diverse. yea like everywhere there are douche bag ppl, racists, and stuff but overall its not like horrible or anything. although i do agree that the media is pretty much needing sum help in its diversification :P

      Jun 22, 2009 at 9:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      I think what Afrolito is saying is going over a lot of people’s heads.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 10:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stephan
      stephan

      @Tony: Hey Tony, how do you sleep at night knowing that the current president is black? chair of DNC(LOL) is black, flipping through TV channels all you see is black athletes, black TV judges, Oprah, Tyra, i mean name it. Do you need to take ambien nightly to sleep. I mean us gays still have no rights but man, I have to give it to you- you are the most racist gay I person I have listened to in a long time. So, keep calling Obama names, michelle Obama derogatory names. Hey, like they say if that helps you sleep at night, why not. I am latino, iI wonder if you have similar views on us or is your issue just with black folk

      Jun 22, 2009 at 10:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Michael:

      I think what Afrolito is saying is going over a lot of people’s heads

      And thank goodness that it is because I, for one, would be most offended if I were to buy into his “Whites are all racists while my black brothas are all free of racism (and homophobia) and pure as the white driven snow at Christmas” bs.

      I wish he’d spare us!

      Jun 22, 2009 at 10:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      I’d be offended, too, if that’s what he actually said.

      Is dementia setting in, Schlukitz?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 10:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      Didn’t Tank used to be relatively sane?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 10:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      Thank you Afrolito for speaking some sense. Too bad so many people lets their emotions blind them from reality.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 10:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • eagledancer4444
      eagledancer4444

      Active thread, huh? Discrimination 101–Racism=prejudice plus power. Most people who belong to a minority group can be prejudiced, but can’t be racist, because they lack the power to enforce their prejudice. The majority of judges, sheriffs, police chiefs, and fortune 500 CEO’s are in a position where if they are prejudiced, they have to power to enforce that prejudice. I’m currently in the Phoenix area where “Sheriff Joe” is proving that on an almost daily basis.

      There are a tiny percentage (Obama is an example of “tiny percentage”-not that many African-American/Mixed Race Commander-in-Chiefs….) of People of Color who are in a position of power where they could actually be racist…but they tend not to be because they know every one of their behavioral choices will be minutely examined and criticized.

      Which also means–there are many White people who are prejudiced, but lack the power to act in an actual racist manner.

      When I did my inter-racial same-sex couples study, I was fascinated that the couples were overwhelmingly a Person of Color with a White. The issue of how society shapes all people–not just People of Color–is something that many people I interviewed expressed. Whites are overwhelmingly the subject of novels, movies, comic books, and Queerty. Media dishes up Whites as the “default” of how one operates. What surprized me was when I asked the ethnicity a subject found erotic–and it was almost always NOT the ethnicity of the person’s partner. I would only interview couples who had been together for over a year–and the majority were together 3-7 years. In other words, if someone indicated they found African-Americans the most erotic, they would actually be partnered with say, an American Indian or a Latina.

      I suspect it’s because what gets your immediate attention and turn-on–isn’t necessarily what will keep a relationship going over the long term.

      Jun 22, 2009 at 10:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Michael:

      Extracted from Afrolito’s Post No. 65:

      What he “actually” said was “Reverse racism = MYTH”

      Had ADD and reading comprehension problems very long, Michael?

      Jun 22, 2009 at 11:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mattsmith
      mattsmith

      Hey Queerity –

      What demo do you tell your advertisers you attract? Remove the white upper-middle class from your readers and then sell some ad space. Oh and good luck with that. Sounds like a winning business model.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 12:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ian in Bangkok
      Ian in Bangkok

      Though well intended, I think this is a non-story simply because as many have commented above, the predominant “whiteness” is a reflection of the community’s tastes. In the Asian gay media whether a website like Fridae.com or any mags out of Thailand, Taiwan, Japan – you will never see a single non-Asian face or bod on a cover. It’s simply not what the market wants. In Asia, most people prefer Asians and are not interested in whites or otehr races, likeewise in the US, most people (of all races) are familiar with and prefer to see whites – racism? Perhaps – but more likely consumerism.

      Similarly, how often do we put poor people on the cover of magazines to draw readers?

      Jun 23, 2009 at 3:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @Ian in Bangkok:

      As a businessman, I will say that I think you make a very valid and sensible point, Ian. All business ventures must adhere to the rule of providing what the market wants. It’s just the way things work.

      While it is possible to lead prospective consumers to our doorstep with a new and innovative product not seen before, ultimately, it it is the consumer who lets the business community know what it wants.

      And, if a business wishes to remain in black ink, it would do well to pay a close ear to what the market is asking for.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 6:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RLS
      RLS

      Afrolito – I heart you. You are far too smart for this place and the level of discourse here. I’m sure the same people commenting on this thread are the ones leaving racist remarks on the thread about locked condoms at CVS stores in black communities.

      Also, yes, there is something seriously wrong with minorities who prefer to date exclusively outside of their race (again, not to be confused with those who date the rainbow), and you must be an intellectual midget not to make the correlation between that decision and the images that saturate our gay media.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 2:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @eagledancer4444: you said “Active thread, huh? Discrimination 101–Racism=prejudice plus power.”
      __________________________________________________________

      No, that is a ridiculous line of reasoning from back in the early 80’s that minority groups used to defend their own racism. The definition of Racism is… “the belief that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.” There is nothing about POWER, again, that old mantra you site was the defense used by the black community when they would defend hatred towards Koreans moving into their neighborhoods, or from the Hispanic community defending the conflicts with the Black community. It was the old “Gee, we CAN”T be racists so it’s ok for us to discriminate” bullshit. I can’t even believe that you could type that senatance with a straight face.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @afrolito: So by your logic, anybody who dates outside their race is sad and pathetic and self loathing…even though they should SEE the beauty of other races, of course they just can’t act on that beauty…because of course that would mean they were self loathing and pathetic.

      You make these painfully twisted posts to try to defend your opinions. If you can’t admit that a black person and a white person can fall in love and be attracted to each other without being filled with self loathing and having major identity issues that I feel sorry for you…I really do.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 2:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RLS
      RLS

      @Cam: You’ve obviously twisted what he was saying to fit the narrowness of your opinions. What he’s saying is that people who casually date interracially (say, dating an Asian guy one month and a latino guy the next) are a very different animal than the minority gay who dates EXCLUSIVELY outside of his race. If you’ve met the type, the self-loathing aspects of that choice don’t take long to reveal themselves.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 3:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      @Cam: Afrolito did not say there was something wrong with interracial dating. She (or he?) said there is something wrong with a person who will NOT date a person of his or her own race. BIG DIFFERENCE!!! The former is perfectly fine, but the latter smacks of self-loathing.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      @RLS: It’s sad that Queerty commenters keep getting less and less intelligent.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 4:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam [Different person #1 using similar name]

      RLS and Rain, you are right, I went back up and read. Sorry for the mistake. Seriously, there were so many damn posts on this thing that I mixed up the source etc… Thanks for the heads up.

      As for you RainaWeather and your comment about the intelligence of posters. It’s sad that you see somebody misreading one of nearly 90 posts as they are scanning through as an attempt to lob an insult. Perhaps you should think about the fact that you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 5:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @RLS:

      So what you are saying then, is that it ok to “casually date” interracially, but a young person who falls in love and marries outside of their race without ever having dated a person of their race is self-loathing?

      That’s still a mind-fuck!

      My husband who is Asian has never dated an Asian person, simply because he does not find himself attracted to Asians, but is turned on sexually by white men. Should he be castigated or punished for that?

      Telling him that he is self-loathing because he chose me as his life-mate, is as idiotic as the str8 religious crowd telling me, as a gay male, that I should be dating and marrying a woman and that if I don’t, I am choosing to live in sin and will be condemned and shunned not only while living, but punished in the afterlife as well.

      Sexual attraction is not a choice or preference and knows no color boundary. There is absolutely no sane, rational reason whatsoever why anyone should feel obligated to sleep with or marry a person they they do not find themselves attracted to. To condemn ones self and another as well, to a lifetime of misery and unhappiness, would truly be the real expression of self-loathing.

      Your argument sounds not only like the religious right against same-sex marriage, but also of the white supremacist segregationists prior to the passage of black civil-rights legislation.

      As to Raina’s comments, one need only look back at some of her prior postings to realize that she/he is not the sharpest pencil in the box either.

      Like those who point at the sins of others, while they commit their own, Raina is the pot who likes to call the kettle black. No pun or slur against blacks implied or intended.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 6:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • C-Errors
      C-Errors

      @anyway:

      HAHAHAHAHA YOU BITCH! I spit my water all over my computer screen.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 9:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chitown Kev
      Chitown Kev

      @jim:

      Chicago is the same way, for the most part. Must be a coastal thang.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 9:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • C-Errors
      C-Errors

      @RainaWeather:

      Ignore the blind and dumb hecklers. You’re making sense <3

      Jun 23, 2009 at 9:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      @Cam: I apologize, my comment wasn’t about you in particular. I’m really talking about people like Tank and schlukitz and anyone else who uses his or her status as a gay person to make racist (or otherwise hateful) remarks. Queerty seems to get bombarded with posters who exist only to breed hate and misunderstanding. Sorry.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 10:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RainaWeather
      RainaWeather

      @schlukitz:

      “My husband who is Asian has never dated an Asian person, simply because he does not find himself attracted to Asians, but is turned on sexually by white men.”

      Are you honestly telling me that you find nothing strange about what you just said? I know people don’t want to hear things like this because they get emotionally involved (like you bringing up your husband which would certainly make one emotional), but that doesn’t make it any less true. How do you think your husband would feel if he had a daughter who said, “daddy, I only want to play with white barbie dolls because the Asian dolls aren’t pretty?”

      Jun 23, 2009 at 10:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • C-Errors
      C-Errors

      @RainaWeather:

      You’re talking to a brick wall bb. These people just do not get it and will hold on as tight as they can to their ignorance. There’s nothing you can do about it.

      I’ve been here enough for similar post to see that. (I’ve never gotten deeply involved but I’ve seen post like this.)

      Jun 23, 2009 at 11:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @RainaWeather:

      I’m really talking about people like Tank and schlukitz and anyone else who uses his or her status as a gay person to make racist (or otherwise hateful) remarks

      Yes. I am telling you that I find nothing strange about what I just said. But, somehow, in your racially fucked-up thinking, you do. Not surprising. And when did you earn your Phd in Psychology, might I ask? You speak like some self-appointed expert on the subject.

      For your information, my husband never said that Asian people are not pretty. You saw fit to insert your own spin on what I said.

      Secondly, my husband and I will never have a daughter because neither of us are interested in rearing children, especially at my advanced age, so that comment was a straw man which has no bearing on this discussion at all. I already have a son (adoped) who is middle-aged so I feel no need to to contribute to the gene pool. We’ve got enough unwanted children on this planet already.

      You know, you really are a disingenuous liar. If merely telling you what my husband’s sexual preferences are makes me a hateful racist, then I guess you would also accuse me of being a dirty capitalist pig because I believe that I am entitled to receive a paycheck for my labors at the end of the week. You certainly do have a screwey way of looking at things.

      It’s people like you, who are the real racists. You invert things, turn them inside out, distort everything people say and then present them as fact to support your wild assertions.

      Totally ignorant people like you, are truly dangerous to the fabric of society.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 11:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TANK
      TANK

      @RainaWeather:

      LOL! SO now I’m a racist? Prove it, you insane crank.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 11:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      @C-Errors:

      Ignore the blind and dumb hecklers. You’re making sense <3

      Yeah right!

      About as much sense as a hen cackling over the egg she is about to lay, the cow mooing in the pasture as she is about to take a dump or a braying mule.

      The idiot applauding the ignorant.

      Jun 23, 2009 at 11:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • more ale in my tea AKA morality (fkd up & disgusting)
      more ale in my tea AKA morality (fkd up & disgusting)

      Ironic..HOW IRONIC that it took gay people to finally uncover racism in america … too funny, but true.

      Jun 24, 2009 at 12:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • eagledancer4444
      eagledancer4444

      No. 84 · Cam
      @eagledancer4444: you said “Active thread, huh? Discrimination 101–Racism=prejudice plus power.”
      __________________________________________________________

      No, that is a ridiculous line of reasoning from back in the early 80’s that minority groups used to defend their own racism. The definition of Racism is… “the belief that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.” There is nothing about POWER, again, that old mantra you site was the defense used by the black community when they would defend hatred towards Koreans moving into their neighborhoods, or from the Hispanic community defending the conflicts with the Black community. It was the old “Gee, we CAN”T be racists so it’s ok for us to discriminate” bullshit. I can’t even believe that you could type that senatance with a straight face.

      *********
      Oh, Sweetie—you so make me laugh—as if I could ever say anything with a “straight” face. You might have missed the irony of why I began my statement with “Discrimination 101” because this thread doesn’t seem to be operating on a graduate school level. I think you’re also dating yourself, since the concept of racism and its connection with power was going on before the 1980’s. Here’s an interesting link for anyone who’s interested in a more “up to date” essay: http://www.edchange.org/multicultural/papers/caleb/racism.html

      As someone who comes from a culture where we are raised to understand words have Power, I appreciate an attempt to discern “Racism” from “Discrimination” or “Prejudice.” I think Racism is a very useful word and I hate to see it misused, or bluntly applied across the board. It wastes the word, its meaning, and dilutes its power. There’s no question that People of Color—or GBLTQTS folks can be prejudiced, or can act in a discriminatory manner. But Racism also operates on an institutional level that allows prejudice and discrimination to be codified. DOMA and other legal acts and propositions codify prejudice and discrimination against GBLTQTS individuals.

      In the 1950s, W. B. E. DuBois, the African American writer and sociologist, shifted from his earlier conclusion about racism being a primary issue of color to suggest the real problems were economic. “Today I see more clearly than yesterday that back of the problem of race and color, lies a greater problem which both obscures and implements its: and that is the fact that so many civilized persons are willing to live in comfort even if the price of this is poverty, ignorance and disease of the majority of their fellowmen.”

      Psychologist Gordon Allport¹s Theory of Racial Contact suggests contact between groups can decrease prejudice when it happens under conditions of equal status and cooperation. Allport postulates the issues of intergroup conflict (prejudice, discrimination, racism or sexism) in the world today are the result of status inequality (differences in wealth, power and prestige), coupled with socioeconomic competition.

      Which, of course, brings us back to why Queerty offers up the eye candy and features it does. I can’t help but wonder if the economic decision to market a “White Bread” product is based on actual focus groups and research, or a simple assumption a website that has a more diverse offering would not “sell” as well as something more focused on GBLTQTS issues from a primarily White perspective.

      Jun 24, 2009 at 5:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ben
      ben

      @afrolito: awesome. amazing. can you speak for me always?

      Jun 24, 2009 at 6:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam [Different person #1 using similar name]

      @eagledancer4444: You can say whatever you want, however you cannot change the definition of a word no matter how many outdated sociological texts you quote. Trying to say that the definition of a word is different merely because of these is the problem with your argument. You COULD claim that racism is more hurtful/dangerous etc… going from one direction to another, but you can never claim that one group cannot be racist. Your insults aside, the basic point of your comment is flawed.

      Additionally, if power denotes the ability to be racist, well then people like Jesse Jackson, President Obama, Beyonce, The Willimas Sisters etc… are all incredibly wealthy and powerful. So it would then stand to reason that THEY can be racist, whereas a group of white, blue collar workers from a shut down factory in Cleaveland cannot be racist since they have no money or power. This is where your theory braks down…oh, there are ridiculous arguments you can make but they would all have to state that even money and fame will not give minorities power….I think that Obama may dissagree with you.

      Again, quote all you want, but all you are proving is that you took the same Soc 101 class that everybody takes when they get into college.
      ________________________

      ….Rain, :)

      Jun 25, 2009 at 10:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chameo
      chameo

      @a. mcewen: Your so right, I’m a white gay and i see so few black people in this matter. I think that every ethnicity and every orientation should be modeled in order to gain worldwide acceptance of homosexuality. I don’t know what it is but there is still white supremacy and if people in power can’t show diversity than there doing society no good. (World acceptance)

      Jul 18, 2009 at 2:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M Shane
      M Shane

      Assimilationism, in part; the fear of being rejected by the mainstream has lead an overwhelming number of whirte gay men to not want to look more marginal by including black, oriental etc. people in their circle of aquaintances.
      Tony Kushner whites about a ‘socialism of the skin” where he calls on our sense of empathy to inform us of our need to support all people to enjoy life as much. This I think would include the concious treatment of people enjoy the same priviledge that we do.
      What happens with protecting ourselves by excluding others, is that we do is to push them down. A sense of Justice takes courage, and a willingness to help others less fortunate to pull themselves up. @Larry above is right,and also, I think that there is a current tendency to parade ourselves as being respectable by pushing others down.

      It is not unlike Afo-Americans(of slave origins) to exclude Blacks who come direct from Africa and to resent their successes. I see this all the time. Black americans often hate Blacks from Africa. In the same way white gays make themselves feel superior by by excluding other colors of gays.

      The gay movement, which had a start in the 70’s and early 80’s slid fast downhill when the ugly forces of Mainstreaming, lead by tukeys like Andrew Sulivan and Bruce Bawer (‘a place a the table’), by trying to exclude anbody or anything that would make the more privileged gays look less NORMAL . That included unmarried people , drag queens , transexuals, ‘sexual perverts'(people who liked unusual sex for it’s own sake). andother marginalized people.

      Gay people need to take a lot of steps back(timewise) to be up to where they were 25years ago in awareness. White gay people are starting to look the way that Right wing straight America wants them to. And that is more than sad.
      Respectfulness is another closet.

      Jul 18, 2009 at 4:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tg06
      tg06

      @drresol: You know I actually think a lot of things do go into your friends’ preference…and,though as a bisexual man of color with a broader preference, I won’t demean them for it…but I, unlike you won’t be opening up that can of worms haha…

      Jul 27, 2009 at 9:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chameo
      Chameo

      @DBaines: /Thanklll you TGOB i just wish that the gay community would let every race in. I mean that’s how they would show that not all gay people are twinks and macho men. It would also so show that every race has gays, so than the whole world would be more aware. I’m a 17 gay and i see so many races in my lgbt club. So why not in the mainstream?

      Jul 28, 2009 at 11:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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