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What Does Dr. Phil Think Parents Should Do When Their Sons Play With Barbies? Take Away The Barbies

If you’ve been reading our Raising My Rainbow series, you know there’s at least one mother out there who’s going to disagree to high hell with Dr. Phi’s advice for parents like Robby, whose five-year-old son likes playing with girl toys and wearing girl clothes. DON’T LET HIM, advises Dr. Phil. Like a fucktwat.

Here is the complete article on DrPhil.com [via]:

Robby’s 5-year-old son loves to play with Barbies and prefers wearing girl’s clothes. She asks Dr. Phil how to deal with this behavior, which she doesn’t think is normal.

“There are developmental stages in kids and it is not unusual, particularly for young boys, to experiment and get stuck on certain stimulus items,” says Dr. Phil. Particularly because the little boy has two older sisters, he says, it’s not unusual.

“This is not a precursor to your son being gay,” explains Dr. Phil. He’ll know that in time, but this is not an indication of his sexual orientation.

Dr. Phil tells Robby that she has a job to do: “Direct your son in an unconfusing way. Don’t buy him Barbie dolls or girl’s clothes. You don’t want to do things that seem to support the confusion at this stage of the game … Take the girl things away, and buy him boy toys.”

Most importantly, he tells Robby, “Support him in what he’s doing, but not in the girl things.”

That’s right, parents. Don’t worry that your gender confused son is going to turn into a big gay. But do what you can to try and prevent it by forcing him to abandon the toys and dress he is naturally drawn to, and force him to do something more butch.

Remember when CNN had clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere on its program to address Sarah’s five-year-old son who chose a Daphne Scooby Doo costume for Halloween, and Gardere called it “the worst nightmare of both the heterosexual and the gay couples to have to fathom that their child may be gay”? (And then apologized for it?) That’s the same fearmongering Dr. Phil is feeding in to.

And Dr. Phil should now be the one apologizing for it.

Kids experimenting with gender roles is completely normal. And in particular, it is around age four and five when children begin understanding — at least on a surface level — what makes them a boy or a girl. Which means this developmental period is even more important for parents to cherish and foster, not restrict and forcibly shape. Dr. Phil’s advice isn’t constructive. It’s damaging. It tells parents they should actively work to keep their sons from being too girly (whatever that means), and vice versa. As if 1) that’s something parents have control over; and 2) there’s a reason to do it.

Related: Sarah, blogging at Nerdy Apple Bottom, posts a new item about the response from her son’s church following all the attention she received from her Halloween article. She was accused of “promoting gayness.” Ahem.

[photo via]

By:           Ryan Tedder
On:           Feb 5, 2011
Tagged: , , ,

  • 177 Comments
    • Kev C
      Kev C

      Dear Dr Phil, when you snort coke, does it get in your mustache?

      Dear Dr Phil, were you born as a child or did you hatch from a cocoon fully formed?

      Dear Dr Phil, have you ever recieved hate mail from Phil Collins, who also is bald and not a doctor?

      Feb 5, 2011 at 1:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • paul
      paul

      Psychology professors (the people who actually conduct scientific research) are saying exactly the opposite of what Dr. Phil said. He really should go back to school. Someone like him shouldn’t be considered an authority on a topic such as this.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 2:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      Physician heal thyself!!! Is that fool phil even a legitimate anything? I don’t know but he should be thoroughly investigated by Anderson Cooper upon his return from Egypt.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 2:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      Dr. Phil is no authority on anything psychological. I sincerely hope no one takes anything he says seriously.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 2:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • McMike
      McMike

      This guy isn’t even licensed.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 4:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • redball
      redball

      “Direct your son in an unconfusing way.”

      Honey, the only ones “confused” here are the parents!!! The answer does not lie in inhibiting a young child’s natural exploration of genderedness.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 5:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • redball
      redball

      “Parents” = Robby and Dr. Phil

      Feb 5, 2011 at 5:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael

      Most of the time I completely disagree with what “Dr.” Phil says or recommends, but I’m going to play Devil’s advocate here to provide a counterpoint…

      “forc[e] him to abandon the toys and dress he is naturally drawn to [...]”

      Is this boy naturally drawn to these toys and dress? Or is this conception he has of what he should consume (dress with and play with) based upon feedback he receives within his immediate community (family)? What kind of feedback does this boy receive day-to-day being in a household dominated by females who define themselves as such based upon societal norms? What would he consider normal? Dr. Phil uses the term “stimulus items” here which is clinical and cold.

      This boy may possibly see his peers (sisters) and authority figure (mother) interacting and using these items (deemed as female) and wishes to relate to or assimilate with his community and create a common bond. This is where the idea that the boy has become stuck on stimulus items comes into play. It is through the interaction with these items that he defines himself and relates to others.

      Now, does the boy see playing with certain toys as a sign of gender? Does he see it as partaking in diffusion of culture? Or is he simply recreating the behavior those immediate to him? The boy may be saying I am like you in that we share the same culture, but he is too young to see how nuanced and wide and varied the world actually is.

      I think it is easier to start chanting “Shame, shame, shame,” than question how we decide what is for girls and what is for boys. Or even why we do that.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 6:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rf
      rf

      Dr. Phil is the main reason why I can’t take Oprah as the honest and thougtful woman she portrays herself to be.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 7:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alexa
      Alexa

      Dr Phil is a quack, and nobody should take him seriously. I agree, RF, about Oprah.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 7:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • christopher di spirito
      christopher di spirito

      Phil McGraw is the product of his environment.

      He’s from Texas — a socially conservative state with values deeply rooted in 1960’s America. In fact, nearly 100% of his guests hail from the Lone Star State, as do his go-to experts.

      Conclusions? You can take the Old Boy out of Fort Worth and plop him down in Beverly Hills but, you can’t take Forth Worth out of the Old Boy.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TG
      TG

      NPR had an related two-part series back in 2008 that is still available online:

      Part 1:
      “Two Families Grapple with Sons’ Gender Preferences”
      Psychologists Take Radically Different Approaches in Therapy
      by Alix Spiegel, May 7, 2008
      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90247842

      Part 2:
      “Parents Consider Treatment to Delay Son’s Puberty”
      New Therapy Would Buy Time to Resolve Gender Crisis
      by Alix Spiegel, May 8, 2008
      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90273278

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TG
      TG

      NPR had a related two-part series back in 2008 that is still available online:

      Part 1:
      “Two Families Grapple with Sons’ Gender Preferences”
      Psychologists Take Radically Different Approaches in Therapy
      by Alix Spiegel, May 7, 2008
      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90247842

      Part 2:
      “Parents Consider Treatment to Delay Son’s Puberty”
      New Therapy Would Buy Time to Resolve Gender Crisis
      by Alix Spiegel, May 8, 2008
      http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90273278

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      Dr. Phil has it wrong — again. If the parents get rid of the Barbies and other “girls’ toys” (or *any* favorite toys) then the son gets traumatized, shamed & feels puni.shed. Why create a fuss?

      The parents can ADD a few toys into the mix, but yeeesh there are plenty of toys that are “gender neutral”. My fave toys as a child were stuffed animals, playdough, science stuff, l.e.g.o’s, and magic tricks, etc.

      Remember that Dr Phil is so “ethical” that he pushed a whole line of weigh.tloss products that he got sued for. Ever look at the guy? He’s a heavy guy.

      He’s got no license, and his information on gender identity is at least 20 years old. You can take a dude out of Texas but you can’t take Texas out of him….

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      Biggest threat to the young man’s well-being: parents paying attention to a phony TV clown. They’d be better off calling Dionne Warwick and getting the psychics help.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ron
      ron

      I don’t know why the parents are so worried. I played with Barbies when I was young and turned out to be a fully functioning and happy gay man! Granted, Barbie was the best dressed doll in the neighborhood, and had a fab house. But you could not keep that Ken away from Allen!

      Dr. Phil’s time has passed.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 10:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • merkin
      merkin

      You can take the Barbie away from a four-year-old boy, but that doesnt mean you can put a truck and a GI Joe in front of him and he’ll love them. How many gay men had “straight” stuff pushed on us that we had little interest in?

      I for one, wrapped my Batman and Robin figures in cloth and made them dresses. The kid is into whatever the kid is into—so long as its not making a big scene or anything, I dont see the problem.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Casey
      Casey

      I agree with him. If you take the barbies away it won’t make them turn out like bitchy queens. Still gay, but not as gay.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ed
      Ed

      I’m 64 years old. I remember playing with dolls and liking dresses when I was 4, 5, 6 years old. My parents were horrified and did their damnedest to stop me from both, but I made a doll out of a broomstick and dresses out of blankets. What my parents’ reaction did was (1) scared the shit out of me, (2) made me ashamed of who I was, (3) opened a closet door where I lived for 30 years, and (4) alienated me from both of them so that I never trusted them with my true thoughts and feelings. I got beyond dolls and dresses and I eventually left the closet. But I was who I was at 4, 5, and 6, and all my parents did was cause pain, confusion, and fear. Shame on you, Phil McGraw! Shame!

      Feb 5, 2011 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joe
      Joe

      I have to admit my parents took my barbie away, or rather gave her competition, when I was little. At the time they also let me grow my hair out and allowed me to wear dresses because everyone thought I was a little girl, and they didn’t want to discourage it. Of course I also had an older sister who enjoyed dress up and play time so Barbie stuck around for awhile until my grandparents stepped in. Turned out I just liked the ability to create a small little world that came with tons of options. They got me a set of legos, comics, and those miniature Star wars toys when GI Joe and Tonka trucks failed to break me.

      I agree with most here that Phil isn’t giving the right, or enough information and is sending a very bad message. We also don’t know enough such as if the child insists on wearing the clothing, or if he has been given it. Give the kid options instead of taking them all away.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andy
      Andy

      Well, childhood gender-atypical behavior is the number one sign of a kid becoming gay later. So he’s a complete quack.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 12:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jpie612
      jpie612

      Never trust anyone with no neck LOL, they have ledd of a spine

      Feb 5, 2011 at 12:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zach
      Zach

      Toys don’t make children gay or straight. I never played with a Barbie, or dolls ever. I had a plethora of (what are traditionally) boys’ toys, and I still turned out gay.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 1:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • leroy Laflamme
      leroy Laflamme

      Bitch, touch my Barbie & I’ll cut you …

      Feb 5, 2011 at 1:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jimsteele2008
      jimsteele2008

      A dear friend of mine who is professor of psychology at Wake Forest University had this to say years ago about her son who loved wearing her jewelry as a little boy: “It’s just play. Let the kid have fun.”

      Feb 5, 2011 at 1:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • That Bitch Téa Delgado
      That Bitch Téa Delgado

      I never had any Barbie dolls either. But I did have the entire Nancy Drew library (and not, notably, the Hardy Boys, who I found boring). Do they cancel each other out?

      Feb 5, 2011 at 1:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • greenmanTN
      greenmanTN

      Well I for one never played with Barbies! Ewwww, girly stuff!!! I played with G.I. Joe and Big Jim, who had a tendency to strip each other down after capture and rub against each other during “interrogations.” My G.I. Joe Command Headquarters (an actual playset) was one of few that had a “back room.”

      So you can’t blame Barbie.

      There’s a good book about stuff like this, “Gender Shock” by Phyllis Burke. She looks at various treatments (some of them undertaken by schools without parents’ knowledge) used to “correct” gender expression by “sissy” boys and “butch” girls, their rates of success and the consequences for the children involved. What it boils down to is that using positive and negative reinforcement they were able to make the boys stop playing with girl toys (and vice versa) and the adults were very very happy. The children? Not so much. Not only did testing before and after the “therapy” show their self-esteem plummeted, but questionnaires filled out by their classmates showed that their peers liked them LESS after their behavior had been “corrected.” (Not surprisingly, several subjects became quite hostile and mean after treatment, bullying others for “improper” gender expression.)

      Really what I’d worry about it that by shaming a kid for their interests you might be able to drive it underground but you’d also give it the appeal of the “dirty” and forbidden. From there it might fester, only to return later in a far less innocent form, either as a sexual paraphilia or as rage against either the opposite sex or people who transgress against gender norms. (It wouldn’t surprise me in the least to learn that James Dobson, Tony Perkins, and the leaders of other right-wing “family” groups had a Barbie in their past and their interest in the “wrong” kind of toys was crushed mercilessly.)

      But if you’re only just now figuring out that “Dr” Phil is a dipshit you haven’t been paying attention.

      I have to admit I’ve been thinking a lot about the Princess Boy’s mom, CJ’s mom posting here, and the Daphne-costume mom recently due to the spate of these similar stories. Believe me, I’m all for parents accepting and supporting their kids’ interests, but I’m a little bothered by the element of exhibitionism on the part of the parents, to differing degrees. What is “The Princess Boy” going to think at age 18 when he sees the clips of himself on the Today show at age 5? How much of this is support for their child’s actual needs and wants and how much is attention-seeking behavior for their “great” parenting and how accepting they are? (I’m less concerned about this with “CJ’s mom” because she’s kept her son anonymous and seems to be responding to specific interests and requests for certain toys.) I was discussing this with someone and he dubbed it “Munchausen’s Fabulousness By Proxy,” which is a pretty accurate (and funny) description of what concerns me, that some of these kids are being used more to garner positive attention for the parent rather than having their own real needs filled. I’m not accusing anyone of anything; it’s just a concern.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 3:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      I think the real issue here is that parents are more concerned if their son plays with Barbie than if their daughter plays with trucks. In other words, feminine qualities in a young male are frowned upon whereas masculine qualities in a young female are not.

      Generally speaking, both parents seem to be more comfortable with the notion of female as “bisexual” than male as “bisexual”. This is the hallmark of modern-day liberalism. Modern-day liberals are far more embracing of the concept of the sexually fluid female than the sexually fluid male. You only have to look at the porn industry to see the adult manifestation of this differential acceptance.

      Don’t under-estimate the role of the mother in all this. Mothers are women. As women, they are hell-bent on achieving privileges. The bisexual double standard is one of those privileges. Women want to be treated specially, basically.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug
      Doug

      That nasally crackpot should shut his trap! When I hear Dr Phil opens his trap I cringe and want to pull out my ears and his condescending attitude makes me want to vomit and hurl the tv out of the wall. GOD I HATE DR PHIL, “PLEASE TAKE HIM AWAY!”

      Feb 5, 2011 at 4:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Doug
      Doug

      That nasally crackpot should shut his trap! When I hear Dr Phil opens his trap I cringe and want to pull out my ears and his condescending attitude makes me want to vomit and hurl the tv out the window. GOD I HATE DR PHIL, “PLEASE TAKE HIM AWAY!”

      Feb 5, 2011 at 4:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Also, notice how, in the USA, women are permitted to wear trousers (a traditional male clothing) whereas men are not permitted to wear dresses (a traditional female clothing). If a man walked down Fifth Ave wearing a dress, he’d be spat upon by liberal New Yorkers (both men and women). If a woman walked down Fifth Ave wearing trousers, she’d be a dime a dozen and fully accepted.

      Liberals are responsible for these double standards. As I’ve said before, liberals are the most dangerous bigots because they hide it behind a veneer of supposed open-mindedness.

      Be afraid, be very afraid….

      Feb 5, 2011 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zach
      Zach

      @greenmanTN:

      I think that’s a valid point about parental exhibitionism, but it’s tough to predict where we’ll be 13 years from now, and what kind of effect it will actually have on a young person. Indulged enough, human beings can easily become raging narcissists, and present and future generations have the ability to document every moment of their lives. I don’t think we’ll entirely eliminate the concept of shame, but if everyone is out there voluntarily airing their dirty laundry, will a little boy dressing up in women’s clothes really amount to much? The same boy will likely be filming his sexual exploits 10-11 years from now, and will have no compunctions about sharing it with friends.

      In short, I’m less worried about potential embarrassment for these kids, or their exhibitionist parents than I am about the general level of self-obsession that technology fosters.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 5:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Riker
      Riker

      @Jason

      How the hell did you come up with such a lame premise that “liberal” New Yorkers would spit at a man in a dress? Nobody in NYC gives a flying fuck about what anyone wears here. BTW, liberals are the ones who have made it possible for gay people to find whatever (limited) freedoms we have here. Your right wing “friends” would have us all in prison or dead like David Kato in Uganda. They hate us with all their guts, and Fred Phelps is the only one who will come out and admit what the others are afraid to say. “Be afraid, be very afraid….”

      Feb 5, 2011 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian Miller
      Brian Miller

      @Riker:

      liberals are the ones who have made it possible for gay people to find whatever (limited) freedoms we have here

      It must me very depressing to live in a world-view where others “make it possible” to find “(limited) freedoms.”

      I’ve met bigoted and non-bigoted people of every stripe. Liberal homophobes I’ve met can be especially annoying, since they clasp their pearls and gasp that they couldn’t *possibly* be homophobic because they let the gay interior decorator redo their home, and they’re LIBERAL! Same with the notion that they’re racist for fretting about being the “only white people walking down the street right now.”

      The reality is that one’s political views don’t directly predetermine his basic human decency.

      And we only have what we’ve got as a result of our own decisions to find freedom in an unfree world, not because of the benevolent pseudo-permissiveness of the political class.

      And NYC isn’t all that liberal — it only pretends to be.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 5:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      It’s so typical of a conservative to fear monger. Be afraid, be very afraid. That’s how they roll.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ProfessorVP
      ProfessorVP

      @Riker: You must be referring to another New York on a parallel universe. I am from New York, no longer live there, but go back once a year. There are pockets of liberal areas, mostly in Manhattan and the gentrified parts of Brooklyn, but New York is also Queens, not-so-gentrified Brooklyn, and Republican Staten Island. The notion that a man can walk down the street in NYC in a dress and not get harrassed is as nonsensical as saying a man can walk down Market Street in San Francisco in a dress and there is not the potential for danger. There is what you wish, and there is reality. Of course, you can do anything in the Castro in San Francisco. But without discrimination, without a need for secure borders, there would be no need for the Castro district; everybody would mix comfortably together.

      It’s a photo-finish to me who’s the bigger phony- Dr. Phil or Oprah, and I’d be the last to take either seriously. That said, the issue is more complex. The reality is thus: if a boy isn’t “encouraged” to butch up his act, there will be the day when he gets the crap beaten out of him at school, and as a parent, seeing your child terrorized daily, getting half-hearted or no help at all from the school, you would feel guilty. To paraphrase myself, wishing doesn’t make it so. In a perfect world, everyone can be himself or herself, without artifice, feeling no pressure. But it is not the real world. Of course, you can enroll the kid in a segregated LBGT school, if one is available in your area, but that is not the real world either.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 6:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • missanthrope
      missanthrope

      Dr. Phil has had anti-gay and anti-trans on his show to “present another viewpoint” when gay and trans issues were discussed on his show. This is surprising coming from this washed-up wanna-be jock. Fuck him.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 6:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Dr. Phil is also the fat guy who came out with a diet book.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 6:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • adman
      adman

      Dr. Phil is a born a gain Christian, not a doctor. Just like soldiers who are BAC’s are BAC first, and American patriots second. LGBT’s who are BAC’s are BAC’s first, then sexual minorities; the same goes for politicians, teachers, etc. Don’t you people pay attention to the contemporary modern theology, seeing as how they are demonizing us to cloak their evil? Seriously, wipe the shocked look off your face and check it out. This informing people over and over stuff is getting tiresome. You can start here.

      The Christian Acadamy and it’s weakest link:
      http://www.reasonablefaith.org

      Feb 5, 2011 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • greenmanTN
      greenmanTN

      It wouldn’t surprise me if “Dr” Phil was born-again since they’re usually the people you regret being born the first time.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 7:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Brian Miller,

      I totally agree with you.

      I find New York liberals to be total phonies. The only reason why liberals claim to be on the side of gay and bi men is because it allows them to use us as a tool in their war with conservatives. It’s a political embrace, not a genuine one.

      Liberals are only truly on the side of promiscuous women and, with respect to GLBT issues, promiscuous lesbians and promiscuous bi women. The reason for this is that liberalism is built on sexual patriarchy – ie creating a world in which promiscuous women accommodate the sexual whims of sleazy straight guys.

      Liberalism is about making women feel good about being exploited.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      @jason: And what is conservatism about?

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Avenger
      Avenger

      I’m sick of all you kooky new age types who idealistically endorse a boy playing with Barbies and being Ballerinas — not wanting to ‘stifle’ his inner child’s expression, or whatever. Yeah, you go ahead and let him play with dolls and twirl around in dresses…he won’t get the snot beat out of him by the other boys when he goes to school; completely ignorant to the fact that not everyone is as unconditionally accepting of his alternative quirks as his mom is.

      In short: Unless you want him to get picked on, don’t let your four year old son play with Barbie dolls.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Avenger,

      Don’t you dare suggest that it’s OK to surrender to homophobes. If there are bullies, they ought to be dealt with. It’s the bullies who need to be smacked.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 8:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kev C
      Kev C

      Yeah, just play him Macho Man by the Village People, that will straighten him out.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Avenger: I am sick of tolerating assholes with your attitude. What is at issue here is the myth that young boys playing with barbies risk becoming homosexual. We know it is not true and that is why we are supporting FOUR year old boys to enjoy childhood. You may not think you are inciting hatred against gay people with your prejudice but you are certainly contributing to it with your rigid rhetoric followed by threats of what other little boys would do. That is so fear based, it only shows what pain you are in. Do you have any idea how emotionally strong most gay children are? If i believed what you say then i should never wear a pink shirt with a gray suit. What nonsense!

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @jason: touche’ hooray. right on. Exactly. And then we feel we have to explain why we celebrate a pride parade to people that harass us. Fuck em and fuck Dr. Phil. He should be remanded back to some dinky office in Texas.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @jason: Oh Jason, my previous comment is regarding number 44. As far as what you said in number 41, may i suggest you not put down New York? Please. Talk about generalizations. Being liberal is an honorable trait. It is conservatives that think and act like radical extremists.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @ron: Oh Sugar. You so sweet. You got the right attitude.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Brian Miller: You did not define a Liberal Brian. What you described for us was a conservative.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Red Meat
      Red Meat

      Just buy the kids this shirt:

      http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/hs057.snc6/168789_1873053588461_1304813683_32222820_4268923_n.jpg

      Feb 5, 2011 at 9:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cait
      Cait

      Give me a break! My 18 month old son has dolls. His father and I are comfortable enough in our sexuality to know that playing with dolls won’t “damage” him. Gay, straight, bisexual, we don’t care. Our son is still our son, no matter what his sexual preferences when he is older. We really don’t think that playing with dolls will teach him anything but empathy, compassion and nurturing, as studies have shown.

      There is too much crap advice out there for confused parents.

      Feb 5, 2011 at 10:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stenar
      Stenar

      @jason: You’ve obviously never been to NYC, if you think New Yorkers would spit at a man in a dress. NYC is the most tolerant place I have ever lived. No one would bat an eyelid. New Yorkers have seen it all.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 12:36 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeff K.
      Jeff K.

      You can take the shrink out of Texas, but you can’t take the Texas out of the shrink…

      Feb 6, 2011 at 1:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Michael
      Michael [Different person #1 using similar name]

      I dunno. A bunch of commenter’s here are confusing sex with sexuality. I’m not much of a fan of gay men who dress and act like females, or females who dress and act like men (gay or straight). Doctor Phil did make an important point in offering advice about sexual orientation, in saying; “This is not a precursor to your son being gay,” explains Dr. Phil. He’ll know that in time, but this is not an indication of his sexual orientation.”

      Feb 6, 2011 at 2:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ewe
      ewe

      @Michael: Michael, it is Quack Phil who is making the association between dolls and girl play. Therefore it is Quack Phil who is confusing sex and sexuality.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 2:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • thematics
      thematics

      There’s nothing any parent can do to prevent any son or daughter from being gay, lesbian, bi, or trans. There’s also nothing a parent can do to keep a child from turning a stick (from a tree) into a gun, or a scrap of fabric into a ‘dress’ for a (male) doll.

      A child’s imagination knows no limits, no boundaries and no societal strictures.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 3:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • astoria
      astoria

      I know Dr Phil said this like that years ago, but is he still doing it? How can he be that ignorant? Following his advice is directly harmful to a child, telling him what he feels and wants is “wrong”, that is, that part of him is “wrong”.

      Taking away his Barbie dolls that he loves is a sure way of causing him agony and a very real real confusion about who he is, creating a problem where there really isn’t one. Why torture a child like that? Life is difficult enough as it is.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 9:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • zacht
      zacht

      @Kev C:
      HAHAHA

      Feb 6, 2011 at 9:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • zacht
      zacht

      @Kev C:
      HAHAHA.
      what a *&%^ing moron! “dr” phil, dont you know that almost every major fashion designer/hair stylist/etc played with barbie as a kid and dressed them, did their hair, built them better dream houses…!? probably the person who does your hair (singular) and makeup (still not enough) was one! im sorry oprah, you were not right about this one…

      Feb 6, 2011 at 9:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott ny'er
      scott ny'er

      @TG: Hey. Thanks for the links. That was really interesting. And if I was a therapist, I would be a little concerned about which treatment to give and how that would affect the life of the child in the future.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 10:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      I’ve seen this twit spew his bile repeatedly, and when he allowed quacks like Uncle Joe Nicolosi on as so-called “balance” I was furious.

      I’d like nothing more than to get on his show and read him the riot act, because he definitely doesn’t know a damned thing about gender nor sexuality!

      Feb 6, 2011 at 10:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Samantha
      Samantha

      In the pure sense of solving the mother’s problem, his instructions make sense. Of course, that requires ignoring every single thing relating to the child being a living, thinking creature able to express his wants and needs (I think this is become de rigeur for most parents these days anyway).

      Here’s the thing: I wouldn’t want my son to ONLY play with Barbies, not because I’d worry about his gender expression but because wide horizons in interactive play as a child tends to help both self-confidence and future performance in school. I’m planning to buy both my sons and my daughters alike as many Barbies as dump trucks and as many tea sets as toy cars. I’ll encourage and engage in play with toys from both sides of the gender-norm continuum as well as with those in between. Lego/Duplex will likely be a daily staple.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 11:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      I think that the emphasis here belongs on the mother’s “problem”, not the child’s.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 11:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Zach
      Zach

      @Samantha:

      I loved Lego as a child, and I would definitely make it a staple of my child from a young age as well. Anything that forces them to build or make something is infinitely preferable to conventional toys – Barbies or action figures.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 1:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RomanHans
      RomanHans

      > How many gay men had “straight” stuff pushed on us
      > that we had little interest in?

      My parents bought me a baseball game when I was younger. I’d expressed ZERO interest in baseball, so this sent me a clear message: We don’t give a fuck who you are or what you want.

      To this day I believe the only thing stupider than baseball are parents who’ll force it on perfectly intelligent kids.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 2:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      Native American tribes were more wise than Dr. Phil on this subject. They let boys who wanted to do “girl things” to do them, and thought nothing of it.

      I do know that most males who want to dress in female clothes are actually HETEROSEXUAL, not gay. This will be a huge new civil rights issue in the future… the right of straight men to dress as women without being discriminated against.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 2:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      51 years of suppressing my actual gender vs the one I was forced into left me with a life-long depression.
      Now I am free, and doctor Phil is a dangerous transphobic idiot

      Feb 6, 2011 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Helena
      Helena

      When my brother was little, he liked to play dress-up with me. Not that it matters, but he’s straight and he did not end up being a cross-dresser. I allowed my son to play with dolls when he was little. Again, not that it matters, but he is also straight and not a cross-dresser. Let the kid play!

      Feb 6, 2011 at 5:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      IT’s all fun and games until somebody burns themselves on an Easy Bake Oven.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 6:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • greenmanTN
      greenmanTN

      Probably every little boy picks up a doll or puts on women’s shoes at one time or another (How do they WALK in those heels?!) so it’s a mistake (IMO) to invest it with too much meaning one way or the other. Freaking out over it, either by worrying hysterically that you’re raising a budding ‘mo OR by deciding you’re gonna support the hell out of your obvious future drag queen, is most likely an over-reaction. Take a chill-pill; your kids will thank you for it later.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 6:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bam!
      Bam!

      Seriously? Barbie dolls?

      Just be a loving parent and let your kids know how much you love and appreciate them.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Syl
      Syl

      Playing with Barbies and My Little Pony no more makes at little boy gay than playing with toy guns and power tools makes a little girl a future dyke. Masculinity and femininity have nothing to do with sexuality. There are uber-feminine women who love other women, and masculine, steak-eating, beer-guzzling, football-watching dudes who like doing it with other dudes. But because some homosexuals behave in a manner more typical of the other gender, or express interest in matters stereotypically reserved for the other sex, people associate transgressing gender roles and norms with homosexuality. And adding transgendered folks to mix is just confuses the straights even more.

      My advice: let people be themselves. The boy could grow up straight and just be feminine. He could turn out to be gay, or bi, or transgendered. Neither of those are bad or a death sentence or mean that the parents have “failed”. What is bad parenting is forcing rigid, outdated, harmful, and ultimately, arbitrary and meaningless gender roles on another generation. Straight men are driven to neurosis by their obsession with maintaining a masculine image. If fewer things were “masculine” or “feminine”, but merely matters of taste, if femininity in men was decoupled from male homosexuality, and homosexuality and transsexuality were destigmatized, they wouldn’t be such neurotic, angry little things.

      Gender roles suck, period.

      @Cam: Oh come on! It takes half an hour to get a thimble full of cake batter cooked by one of those things!

      Feb 6, 2011 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      And there is no way that the light bulb can burn you.

      Feb 6, 2011 at 10:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • astoria
      astoria

      Kids NEED to play without anyone telling them what to play. It’s essential, it’s their way of growing, and it’s important they do it any way the like, as long as nobody is hurt. Just give them different kinds of toys, cars as well as dolls and teddy bears and lego and musical instruments, and let them choose for themselves.

      Feb 7, 2011 at 4:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tiecho
      Tiecho

      Com’on Queerty, give Dr. Phil a break. He’s very pro-gay ( Just watch him on CNN when he grilled that homophobia school administrator) I don’t disagree with he’s advice. If play with barbies won’t effect his development, neither will not playing with them.

      Feb 7, 2011 at 6:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      I would say that he’s a quasi-ally, Tiecho. Because he’s allowed quacks like Nicolosi on his show, and now this latest bullshit regarding boys playing with traditionally female toys.

      Feb 7, 2011 at 8:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cara
      Cara

      So here’s the question, if I go out wearing jeans, a t shirt, trainers and no make up would I be dressed as a man? I’m sick of things being divided between boys and girls, especially for young children. I’m not going to discourage my son from playing with dolls as one day he may have kids of his own, so why shouldn’t he practise caring for babies? It all smacks of women taking care of the home and kids while men hammer things which just isn’t the way the world works anymore, thank goodness.

      Feb 7, 2011 at 6:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      where the hell is this boys father. what boy plays with dolls and dresses up like a women. this boys behavior needs to be corected fast before he grows up to be an immoral fag waving a rainbow flag in a new yourk city parade.

      Feb 14, 2011 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @Cara men still have the upper hand in the world you just dont realize that we are still in control. if your a christian you should realize men have a higher status than women its clearly stated in the first book of the bible.

      Feb 14, 2011 at 5:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Justin, you are an immoral fag who can’t spell New York.

      Feb 14, 2011 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      Justin — Too bad you’re a man out of time. Time for you to grow up, quit living in your patriarchal fantasy land, and join the 21st century, and stop trying to resurrect the 1950s.

      Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, and many other TV shows from that era are all fantasy shows. NONE of them reflected *any* hint of reality. They were largely propaganda to shove women back in the kitchen after helping to save the world when they worked in defense plants and the shipyards after WW2!

      Feb 14, 2011 at 6:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @marlen and soupy. you people are immoral your trying to say its ok to be Gay. thats satan working his evil deeds and weak minded people like you fall for it. non believers in Christ such as yourself are the ones who dont follow the bible and dont try and say your christians because if you were you wouldnt be attempting to go against the bible. you seriously are critisizing me for a few mispelled words wow if thats all you do is look for mispelled words and not look at the point im making you need help

      Feb 15, 2011 at 4:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @marlene and soupy. your probably the kind of people who push pro abortion lets kill some babies idea huh. saying women have a right to chose. oh really then why dont we say men have a right to rape women too because if pro abortion women say women have a right to murder babies than men have the right to chose to beat up a women. its the same principal no matter what you say or think their is no differance.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      women cry and complain and fight against domestic violence playing the victem role yet they condone the murder of unborn babies. if your going to be a whore and screw around you have no right to kill the baby inside you. GROW UP AND TAKE SOME RESPONSABILTY LOSERS.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 4:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: Another illiterate Bible thumper. Please, if you don’t have children already, don’t have any. They could turn out to be as big a mess as you are.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 5:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Poor Justin. Going against the bible. I bet that you eat shellfish too. According to god, that is an abomination and you are going to hell.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 5:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @soupy you must be talking about the old testament in which case is no longer valid in terms of salvation. after jesus died on the cross the new covenant went into effect. im Christian not jewish the old testament doesnt apply to me although it is good to read. and the bible clearly states all sin is forgiven if you believe in jesus and accept and trust in him so you are wrong about going to hell because someone eats shelfish. you need to brush up on yor bible skills if you dont beleive me read John 3:16

      Feb 15, 2011 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. your telling me if i have kids and raise them to be christians they will be messed up. i have not said one thing that doesnt go along with what the bible teaches i think you need to get faith in christ before its too late my friend ill be praying for you weather you like it or not.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 8:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: No, I’m telling you that if you raise them to be like you they will be messed up.

      Pray for yourself. I’m sure you do every night. You want someone to take away those horrible erections you get every time you see a man in a swim suit.

      Oh, and if you want people to take you seriously, learn to spell.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 8:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. Not to worry i forgive you and all you rude comments. i do have to say im not gay i have a girlfriend who ive been with for a year.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 8:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. like i said before to another person instead of paring atention to some mispelled words you should be paying attention to the point im making. do you seriously spend your time on here proofreading peoples comments Hahaha. you should be spending your time with more useful things.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 8:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. the reason i mispell words is not because i dont know how to spell its because im using a phone and my fingers are to big for the small keys and i hit the wrong buttons. the reason i dont uses punctuation is the phone only allows so much to be put in one message so in order to get what i want to say put in a single message i have to conserve message space by not using punctuation

      Feb 15, 2011 at 8:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: Your “girlfriend” is in for a huge disappointment. “Weather” or not she already suspects the truth – that you’re a big mo and you troll on gay blogs because you don’t have the guts to come out – it will not end well.

      You have nothing to say. You’re just a pathetic bigot with a narrow-minded interpretation of a book that I could just care less about.

      That’s all – we’re done here. Have a good life and when you come out don’t hit all the bath houses right away.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 9:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • M
      M

      @Riker:

      So you’ve tried it, then?

      I was attacked in NYC multiple times. Seriously harassed an average of once every couple weeks at the least. Possibly once per week.

      I left the country, and I’ve never gotten a second look.

      NYC is no safehaven.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 9:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      No where in the new testament does Jesus call homosexuality a sin. You are reading the picture book bible with some shepherds in the background. I suggest you save your message space for a christian straight site.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 9:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @soupy. the bible does call homesexuality a sin you have no idea what your talking about. but thats ok if you want to be ignorant to the truth. doubters will dount until the end.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 10:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. Thats original calling me a bgot. people call Christians bogots just because they follow God and Christ and follow and preach the words of God. just because God says being Gay is immoral and Christians speak out against it doesnt mean we are bigots it means we are following the one true religion and the one true God. you will go to hell if you continue following satan and denying God and the good book. the choice is yours and no one but you can decide to change.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 10:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      @justin:

      Justin, you are soooo clueless.

      Homosexuality and gender crossing has been with humanity since before history. We’ve been around *long* before your faith was invented.

      Societies ancient while the Middle East was still uncivilized were accepting of those who followed a different path.

      Asians, Polynesians, the Maori and the Samoan… the Thai and all along the Americas… they almost all to a tribe and people accepted.

      Native Americans revered those with two spirits… they were advisers to chiefs and medicine people… spiritual center of the tribe. Men lived and loved as woman… women who lived and loved as men.

      As to your pathetic attempt to justify rape and denail of a woman’s right to choose, my dear boy, all I can say is that I it’s too bad women are their own person. It’s too bad your fear of losing control is controlling you and using your Bronze Age book to justify oppression, hate and bigotry is as pathetic as can be.

      All I can do is pity you, Justin…. a poor thing frightened of people who stand up to you and says “NO MORE!” No more oppression, no more hate, and no more discrimination.

      Oh and finally, dearie? Your faith and your threats of an vengeful and angry god have no more hold on me than a light breeze in the summertime.

      Feb 15, 2011 at 11:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      @Justin
      So, this god of yours produced inter-sexed and hermaphroditic babies every day.
      Meanwhile the bible says that such children are abominations if they live their lives with what they have been given.
      So, what’s gods problem?

      Feb 16, 2011 at 1:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      @justin:

      Oh, Justin… you’re too good to be true.

      There are many Christians in this country, and they aren’t bigots.

      Why? Because they don’t try to use a Bronze Age book to justify oppression, hate, and prejudice. They don’t use a Bronze Age book to write laws denying citizens their civil and *equal* rights under our *secular* Constitution.

      Every time an oppressed minority in this country stood up to demand their rights under the Constitution, the power structure of the day, and long with many others used one thing to justify their positions: the bible and their interpretation of christian tenets.

      Fortunately, our nation has evolved past those petty prejudices, thanks to the herculean efforts of millions of activists, along with the courts correctly interpreting the Constitution’s guarantee of equality under the law.

      You want to live under a theocracy, darling? Well, you ain’t getting here in the US of A!

      Feb 16, 2011 at 6:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @marlene. it has nothing to do with opression it has to do with murder. women dont have a right to murder unborn babies. as far as rape goes i wasnt justifying rape i was trying to make a point but you obviously didnt get that.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @shelly. you must be talking about the old testament. God loves every person and we are all Gods children he isnt just my God he is everyones God.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      Whats funny about all this is that im right and you all are wrong. you are evil people who dont believe in God your materalistic wants and secular humanist views will be the end of you on judgement day. You are all a bucnh of BABY KILLERS!!! Your pro satanic view of things have led you away from the light of a loving but vengful God and thats sad that people have come to this.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Justin, how you contradict yourself. Yes Leviticus in the old testament calls lying with another man as an abomination as it does eating shellfish in the same chapter. But since you seem to prefer the teachings of Jesus, can you find me one against homosexuality in the new testament. Please do some research before you preach hate.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @soupy i never contradicted myself. i said the old testament doesnt apply in terms of BEING SAVED TO GO TO HEAVEN. and only in those terms because Jesus died for mankinds sins. but the old testament and new testament DO NOT have differant Gods they are the same God. and what God said in the old testament about homosexuality still applies. are you telling me God changed his mind. Your wrong God wouldnt have said it in the first place if it wasnt going to be the rule of God for all time.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @soupy. the only research i need is prayer and reading the bible. which i do both. I AM DOING GODS WORK BY TELLING PEOPLE OF HIS LOVE AND NEED FOR HIM

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @soupy. Im not preaching hate im preaching the word of God.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Francis
      Francis

      What God says about homosexuality in the Old Testament still applies, but of course, the other Leviticus codes, like they never happened. Oh, and homosexuality as we know it wasn’t a concept in those days, anyway. But, Justin is a self-loathing troll who has tragically been brainwashed and is even more tragically going out of his way to justify his ways, so discussions with him are futile.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Francis
      Francis

      Sad how people like Justin “preach God’s word” *snark* because they feel obligated to, not actually because they want to, or care about the people they condemn, or even understand what they are saying. That’s the height of a brainwashed state.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MikeE
      MikeE

      @justin: the sad thing, Justin, is that you have absolutely no idea what is written in the bible. You are reading a translation, of a translation, of a translation.

      If you had 2 braincells to rub together, you’d look at the original Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek version, and you’d SEE for yourself, that there is not a single word, anywhere in the Good Book that talks about homosexuality. Not in the old testament, and not in the New.

      The only person “going to hell” for being evil, is you and your ilk, who twist “the word of god” to support your bigotry.

      And yes, I AM a Christian.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Francis
      Francis

      Dr. Phil’s advice is not shared by most in his profession. His advice and the reaction from some to it and to the Holloween dress up child shows us all that even though “gay” has gotten a bit more support nationally, not following traditional gender roles is still a major, major hush hush, taboo, stone cold topic, even with many gays. Taking away the toys from the kid only tells him that there is something wrong with him, and nothing less. If he likes to play with girl toys, let him play. It’s not necessarily confusion whatsoever, the kid is 5. I don’t understand why bigoted parents have to force their ideals on their child. And basically mold them into their personal robots. These parents are more concerned with their kids being “normal” or fitting the image of perfect children, instead of simply loving them and supporting them for who they are.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Justin, you are not making sense. If the god of the old testament said that homosexuality and eating shellfish was an abomination, then both still apply in your world.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 1:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • loe02j
      loe02j

      Justin

      You are sinning here.

      “Thats original calling me a bgot. people call Christians bogots just because they follow God and Christ and follow and preach the words of God.”

      No, Justin, people call people who condemn, revile, malign and discriminate against GLBTQ bigots because such people engage in bigotry. Your remark above is a case of bearing false witness – sin, Justin, that you need to repent of.

      Further, anyone who teaches that homosexuality is a sin – is not following God and Christ, and is not following and preaching the words of God.

      “you people are immoral your trying to say its ok to be Gay.”

      It is ok to be gay, that is the way God made about 10% of humanity, and about 10% of many species of animals. It is also ok to have sex, if you are gay or lesbian, with someone of your own gender.

      You call people immoral, and then complain about name-calling? you have sinned here, please repent. By judging people immoral, simply because they do not obey you, you brought yourself up for judgment as well. Your condemnation of homosexuality is immoral, Justin.

      “if your a christian you should realize men have a higher status than women its clearly stated in the first book of the bible.”

      Not exactly. But interestingly enough, the third chapter of the first book of the Bible contains the very first curse directed at humans, and it directly targets the common result of heterosexual intercourse. God must not prefer heterosexuality after all; God put a curse on pregnancy and giving birth – a curse that doesn’t apply to gay men and only to lesbians who deliberately risk it.

      Further, Christ taught something very different, which real Christians know – that everyone is to be treated equally, regardless of gender, class, or any other trait.

      “just because God says being Gay is immoral”

      God does not say that, Justin. No where in the Bible does that concept appear. The handful of verses you think say that, do not. You are lying about God, which is a sin against the Holy Spirit – the only unforgivable sin, in some parts of Christianity.

      “and Christians speak out against it doesnt mean we are bigots”

      When you, when anyone, speaks out against people based on an intrinsic trait they all share, regardless of what that trait is, that is bigotry. You are a bigot, and unlike homosexuality, being a bigot actually is incompatible with being a Christian.

      No amount of deception and dishonesty on your part is going to change that. And Justin, the Bible has hundreds of passages condemning deception, lying, bearing false witness – the sin you have committed here repeatedly. Please repent. Take the log out of your eye, before you even think about looking at our lives.

      “the only research i need is prayer and reading the bible. which i do both.”

      Yet you are tragically uninformed about the message of the Bible, its contents, and the nature of God.

      “I AM DOING GODS WORK BY TELLING PEOPLE OF HIS LOVE AND NEED FOR HIM”

      No. You are working for yourself, Justin, and you are teaching people here that God is capricious, unjust, and malevolent. You have maligned love, Justin.

      “you will go to hell if you continue following satan and denying God and the good book.”

      As you judge others, Jesus said, so you will be judged. Whatever standard you use to condemn GLBTQ people – you have to live up to as well, and guess what, Justin?

      You cannot.

      No one can. That’s kinda the point of the OT Law. You’ve judged and condemned millions of people, calling them ugly and vicious names, but in doing so, you judged and condemned yourself.

      “what God said in the old testament about homosexuality still applies.”

      God said nothing in the Old Testament, and the New Testament, about homosexuality. But, Justin who has lied repeatedly, God said a great deal about deception and dishonesty and lying. And Justin who foments injustice, God said a great deal about those who create injustice, who persecute, libel and slander, oppress and abuse others.

      You have a great deal to repent of here, Justin. The reality is that you, like everyone else, are so far from perfect that you have no business whatsoever criticizing GLBTQ people, or anyone else.

      “Im not preaching hate im preaching the word of God.”

      No, you are preaching hate, you are not preaching the word of God. You are lecturing about things you do not understand to make your own sins seem small, as if that will fool anyone.

      Repent, Justin; you’ve put yourself in grave spiritual danger.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 1:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      Ahhh… but Soupy, you have to realize that in Justin’s demented world, only certain Levitical bans remain in effect.

      Y’see, fanatics like Justin and his ilk are in effect cowards and bullies. They cannot abide anyone who doesn’t believe, and look exactly like they do aren’t “true” Christians, so they have to bully them until they don’t oppose their perverted agenda.

      Every time an oppressed minority stood up to their oppressor, theyclaimed the bible justified their action in denying the minority their civil rights under a *secular* Constitution.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 3:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @loe02j: *STANDING OVATION* Thank you!

      Feb 16, 2011 at 3:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      @justin:

      But you didn’t answer my question.
      If god made all creatures, then he made babies who are hermaphroditic and intersexed.
      Yet, according to your bible, if these folks act in ways they were made to do, they are abominations.
      How can god have it both ways?
      First it curses them at birth.
      Then it damns them through life.
      Don’t you have a problem with this?

      Feb 16, 2011 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      Shelly — Please don’t confuse poor Justin with the facts. It conflicts with the programming he’s been given by the religious reicht, and may start making him think for himself!

      Feb 16, 2011 at 6:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @francis. im not brainwashed im speaking from the bible i have not spoken anything the bible doesnt already speak about. you my friend are sadly mistaken

      Feb 16, 2011 at 7:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @mikee. your not a christian your an anti christian its not hard to see that by the way you speak. the english translation is exactly what original scriptures say the only differance is the language. im not going to hell i accept jesus as my savior as stated in John 3:16 how can you presume to say i dont know whats wrote in the bible i own a bible and read from it.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @soupy. of course his words in the old testament still apply i never said they didnt. the only thing i said that doesnt apply from the old testament is before jesus was put on the cross you had to follow the old laws to go to heaven now you dont because jesus died for our sins. why dont you open your eyes and read what im say instead of selectivly seeing what you want to see.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 7:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @loeo2j. speaking the words of God is not bearing false witness. im not judging anyone im simply telling them Gods word. its not about obeying me its about obeying GOD. yes the bible does say men are higher than women and i quote “Genesis verse 16 the lord said to the women you willl suffer terribly when you give birth but you will still desire your husband and HE WILL RULE OVER YOU” And telling people that they are commiting sin is not treating someone unequal. The only unforgiveable sin is refusin Jesus

      Feb 16, 2011 at 7:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @marlene. i have said this before and ill say it again i never said the old testamnet doesnt apply. the only thing i said is you dont have to follow the old laws to get to heaven anymore because thats why Jesus died on the cross. i dont know why all of you people on here have this obsesion for selectivly seeing what you want and dont want to take the time to read what i say. if you cant even read what im saying how can you quote the bible you probly dont even read that in full either

      Feb 16, 2011 at 7:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @shelly. God doesn curse babies at birth and he doesnt Damn them in life. and there are some things no one can answer and only God knows. i dont claim to be an expert on the bible but i do have common sense and enough knowledge to know what is a sin. sometimes God does work in mystirous ways and thats just how he works your not suposed to know everything until you go to heaven.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 7:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @everyone. you can call me a bigot. you can say i bear false witness. i deliver the word of God straight from the bible and he knows im not any of those and thats all i care about is that God knows the truth and he knows im serving him and not satan like some of you and you know who you are. the ones on here trying to discredit the word of God with your blasphemy and lies.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 8:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • loe02j
      loe02j

      Justin

      justin

      “speaking the words of God is not bearing false witness.”

      But you are not speaking the words of God, Justin. In the first place, you are not speaking at all, you are writing.

      Second, your derogatory and abusive assertions are not the words of God, they are your words, and you are not God. Not by a very, very, very long shot.

      You have repeatedly made false claims about people, that is bearing false witness, and it is sin. Repent.

      “im not judging anyone”
      You most certainly are, and now you are lying about it. That means that no one here can trust anything you say about anything, including the Bible. When you called people “immoral” and called mikee. “your not a christian your an anti christian” that was judging on your part. Now you lie about it, so that tells us that everything else you’ve written cannot be trusted either.

      “im simply telling them Gods word.”

      No, you are telling people what you think a few passages in the Bible mean, in other words, you are telling people your word. You are not God. Stop blaming your hate and prejudice on God.

      “its not about obeying me its about obeying GOD.”
      But you are presenting your claims as God’s word, so you are indeed expecting people to obey you. You are not God, Justin. Far from it.

      “yes the bible does say men are higher than women and i quote “Genesis verse 16 the lord said to the women you willl suffer terribly when you give birth but you will still desire your husband and HE WILL RULE OVER YOU”

      You don’t understand English, clearly. Ruling over someone is different from being intrinsically higher, or superior to, someone. Ironically, you have quoted the very passage I mentioned that indicates that God does not favor heterosexuality – a curse on the direct product of heterosexual intercourse.

      “And telling people that they are commiting sin is not treating someone unequal.”

      But that isn’t what I wrote about, so you are being dishonest yet again. However, Justin, telling millions of people that they can never, ever experience honest intimacy and love, is treating them as unequal to yourself. Calling us immoral, Justin, is treating us unequal to yourself.

      You are sinning. And you are lying to us and about us in the process. Repent.

      “The only unforgiveable sin is refusin Jesus”

      Not according to many traditional sects of Christianity, which take the following passage seriously:
      Mark 3:29 (New International Version, ©2010)

      29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”

      You simply do not know the Bible as well as you think you do.

      “i dont know why all of you people on here have this obsesion for selectivly seeing what you want and dont want to take the time to read what i say.”

      They are simply following your example, to the limited degree that your accusation even applies to anyone. You though, are very selective about what the Bible says, as well as what people here provide to you.

      “. if you cant even read what im saying how can you quote the bible you probly dont even read that in full either”

      You are unable or unwilling to use proper grammar and capitalization, your spelling is atrocious, and you clearly do not understand many of the English words you use or that others have used. You certainly cannot be either fluent in Koine Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic sufficiently to validate any of your claims about what is God’s word, or to follow, evaluate and process scholarly works in English that analyze the Bible in relationship to the original languages it was written in.

      Further, your derogatory assertions about people here, like the one quoted above and the one to mikey, are deeply abusive and unChristian. If you cannot behave like a civil human being in public, how can you possibly hope to understand what is God’s will for your own life, much less for our lives?

      People are reading what you are writing, Justin, they just aren’t convinced by it because of the blatant errors, the lies, the malice, and the incredible egotism.

      Your posts display an incredible ego – the sin of pride – Justin. Pride is said to be the first sin, and C.S. Lewis, among many theologians, argued that all sin arises from pride in some way. Your posts display the sin of pride.

      You really are not qualified to judge anyone else, nor are you qualified to preach God’s will, at all. It is unlikely that you will ever be qualified to preach God’s will, as long as your pride controls your heart and your mouth/keyboard.

      “the english translation is exactly what original scriptures say the only differance is the language.”

      That is one the most ignorant things posted on this website today, maybe all week. There are many English translations, Justin, they do not agree, and many are deeply flawed. No translation is ever “exactly what the original” of anything, and the longer the text, the older the text, the greater the cultural differences, the greater the discrepancies. Scholars cannot even provide exact translations from ancient English into Modern English, less than a thousand years of change in language and culture within the same group of people. The Bible requires translating from very ancient languages that are essentially dead today – only used by scholars or for ritual – koine greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic.

      Once again, Justin, you are opining about something you have very little knowledge of, and from that tiny speck of knowledge, you are maligning millions of people, and in doing so, you are sinning against us all.

      Please repent.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @loeo2j. again all sin is forgiven because Jesus paid for the sin of man by dying on the cross. John 3:16 “for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believe in him shall NOT perish but have ever lasting life” your interpreatation of mark 3:29 is wrong “Jesus said that because people said he had an evil spirit in him” but i have not spoke against the Holy spirit i have spoke against peoples sins and that is NOT speaking against the holy spirit

      Feb 16, 2011 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • loe02j
      loe02j

      justin

      “you can call me a bigot.”

      You have repeatedly expressed bigotry and prejudice. You show no remorse, and are oblivious to criticism to the point that your bigotry and prejudice do appear to define you as a person. That makes you a bigot.

      If a creature quacks, has feathers, lays eggs, waddles, eats water plants, swims on lakes, – has all the identifying traits of a duck, it almost certainly is a duck.

      “you can say i bear false witness.”

      You have repeatedly done so. Now you must repent.

      “i deliver the word of God straight from the bible”

      But you do not. Even when you “quoted” Genesis3:16, you paraphrased it considerably. And then you read into it something that wasn’t there, and, you ignored what Christ taught in the NT.

      “and he knows im not any of those”

      Capitalizing pronouns when writing about God is a way of showing respect, that you do not do so shows that you do not respect God.

      Further, you are sinning here, and God does know it, and your denials won’t change any of it. Your very argument is an attempt to bend God to your will because you do feel guilty.

      “and thats all i care about is that God knows the truth and he knows im serving him ”

      You are not serving God, Justin. You are serving you. No one else.

      “and not satan like some of you and you know who you are.”

      Your verbal abuse is evidence against you.

      “the ones on here trying to discredit the word of God with your blasphemy and lies.”

      People are discrediting your words, Justin, everyone here, including yourself, can see that very clearly. You are not God, you are not writing or speaking for God. You are just a fallible human being trying to use God to hurt other people.

      “i dont claim to be an expert on the bible”

      Yet you act like it here, vilifying and slandering millions of human beings based on what you think you know the Bible says, yet, you aren’t even educated enough to capitalize the word Bible as a sign of respect for it.

      “but i do have common sense and enough knowledge to know what is a sin.”

      Yet you have sinned against people here, repeatedly, and then claim that you are not sinning. Your common sense and “enough knowledge” is clearly insufficient for the task of determining what is right and wrong for other people’s lives – it has proven insufficient for the task of determining what is right and wrong in your own life.

      “sometimes God does work in mystirous ways”

      That is a cop-out. God’s justice is perfect, and recognizable, that is one of the traits that sets God apart from false gods. I’m sorry, but your understanding of Christian theology is very superficial and extremely limited.

      We actually have a very explicit summation of what we need to know about God’s justice, God’s law, from Christ, and it is not mysterious at all. “Love God with your entire self” Christ said, “and Love your neighbor as yourself”. That demand of equality means that heterosexuals cannot discriminate against homosexuals, or revile us, or call us immoral, or assume, as you have done, terrible and evil things about us.

      Anti-gay theology intrinsically disobeys Jesus Christ, Justin. And you have disobeyed Jesus in just about every one of your posts here.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 8:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @loeo2j. Blasphemy against the holy spirit is saying Jesus casts out demons with the help of demons like the phaireses did after they arested Jesus. thats the meaning of Blasphemy so you need to get your facts right. i have never commited Blasphemy against the holy spirit because i know Jesus cast out demon with the power of God. so you are wrong.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 8:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: How do you know God is a “him?” How do you know anything in the Bible is true. Maybe you should be reading the Koran. Or the Book of Mormon. Or ‘The Confessions of O.” Maybe that’s where the truth is.

      Read your own writings if you don’t think you’re a hypocrite. You want to throw out more than half your bible (the OT) when it’s convenient for you to make a point. If that’s not blasphemy and dishonesty I don’t know what is.

      And if this isn’t already clear enough let me spell it out for you in plain English: the more you write the more you convince people that you are wrong about religion, spirituality and sexual orientation.

      I support everything LOE02J wrote. You need to quit pretending you are a heterosexual. No one who is not deeply in the closet would ever spew this much bile about people whose lives do not concern him.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 8:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. i dont throw out the old testament and its not my bible. the old testament is the jewish bible the new testament is the Christian bible and while i do read the old testament from time to time and it has good info its not what i follow i follow Jesus and the new covenant he made with man [the new testament]

      Feb 16, 2011 at 8:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • loe02j
      loe02j

      justin

      “again all sin is forgiven because Jesus paid for the sin of man by dying on the cross.”

      Then your entire argument here, every post you have made, is pointless except as acts of brutality. Because even if homosexuality were a sin, and it is not, all sin is forgive you say. Never mind that most conservative/fundamentalist ministers and clergy would disagree with you on that. If your statement is true, then your nasty noise about our lives is pointless, we are forgiven too.

      But, Justin, you do have the burden of repentence, for you have sinned against everyone here, and against GLBTQ people in general.

      ” your interpreatation of mark 3:29 is wrong”
      First, that isn’t my interpretation, Justin.

      “Jesus said that because people said he had an evil spirit in him” but i have not spoke against the Holy spirit ”

      Ah, but Justin, the point I made is that you have indeed spoken against the Holy Spirit, or at least, your words can be interpreted that way.

      Here is the actual exchange:
      Justin wrote: “just because God says being Gay is immoral”

      I replied: “God does not say that, Justin. No where in the Bible does that concept appear. The handful of verses you think say that, do not. You are lying about God, which is a sin against the Holy Spirit – the only unforgivable sin, in some parts of Christianity.”

      Your claim “God says being is immoral” is a lie, Justin. You are lying about God. Further, your comments here paint an ugly and horrific picture of God, one that blasphemes against God’s very nature, and in doing so, blasphemes against the Holy Spirit.

      “i have spoke against peoples sins”
      No. You have spoken against people’s lives that you consider sin, and then blamed your abusive and degrading assumption on God. That is very different.

      And while you tell us how much you read the Bible, you seem to have forgotten this passage:

      Matthew 7
      Judging Others
      1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

      3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

      Matthew 7 is a great text to study. Not only does it contain an admonition against judging, which you are breaking, it contains great promises, and a very valuable test for right teaching:

      15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

      Anti-gay theology, Justin, only bears evil fruit. Your posts are evil fruit, full of name-calling and hate speech, lies and dismissals, ego and malice. Anti-gay theology causes people to commit acts of violence against GLBTQ people, causes parents to discard their gay or lesbian kids, causes people to discriminate and abuse GLBTQ people. In Uganda, folks are murdering gays and lesbians because of the exact religious belief you are claiming is “God’s word”. Anti-gay theology drives people away from God, it splits families, it nurtures every other prejudice as well.

      The belief “homosexuality is sin” only causes destruction and harm, Justin. It only bears evil fruit. And evil fruit is proof that the belief is evil.

      You should think long and hard about that, and about the next passage in Matthew 7, because it absolutely applies to what you are doing here:

      21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

      Those who follow Christ are recognized by their fruit, but your fruit is abusive, Justin, and it doesn’t matter how often you call Christ Lord, or what miracles you claim to perform, if you create injustice, if you malign millions of people for your ego’s sake, if you portray God as malicious and capricious – as you do, Justin, then Jesus will say to you:

      “‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’”

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: Oh, ok. So you disagree with Christian teaching for the last 2000+ years about what is the “scripture.” That’s fine.

      I’m absolutely sure that makes you blasphemous.

      Goodbye. Hope you come out of the closet soon. It seems really uncomfortable for you.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @loe02j: Thank you for speaking out and standing up against ignorance and lies.

      @Justin: You are facing a choice here. Do you learn from someone [loe02j)who has a MUCH better understanding of God’s word than you do, OR do you stay stuck in your pride and continue to profess false teachings?

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @loeo2j. Here is a quote by the life application study bible commentary on mark 28 29. “Christians need not worry about this sin because this sin is atributing to the devil what is the work of the holy spirit. It reveals a heart attidtude of unbelief and unrepentance. Deliberate ongoing rejection of the work of the Holy spirit is blasphemy because its rejection of God himself” in other word ive never denied God or Jesus or the Holy spirit or the works of all so i have not commited that sin.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. the last 2000 years of christian teachings were of the new testament. before that christianity didnt exist because Jesus had not been born yet the old testament is jewish not christianity. so no i have not rejected christian teachings your again saying things that i didnt claim.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: You read the Bible for Dummies. That’s great. You come on here pretending to be an all knowing export and that’s your source.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @justiceontherocks. Its not rocket science its commen sense all christians know that before Jesus there was no christianity and that the new testament is the teachings of Jesus and its christian and that the old testament is hebrew now called judaism or jewish.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      @justin:

      So, IF god does not curse them or damn them, then they are cursed or damned by humans who refuse to behave as god would wish them to.
      In a tolerant and loving manner.
      OOPS!
      You can’t have it both ways.
      Either you truly believe in a kind and accepting god, and you let G.L.B.T s live their lives OR you reject the doctrine of a faith of love and kindness and condemn them to suffering because what they are offends you and the book written by men that consisted of secondhand interpretations of what Christ may or may not have said.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: You’re a fraud. You call yourself a Christian yet you refuse to follow one of the basic teachings of your church.

      Still have no idea why gay people bother you so much. What I do in my bedroom is none of your damned business, unless I invite you to do it with me.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @shelly. I WILL NEVER REJECT GOD OR HIS KINDNESS OR LOVE FOR MANKIND OF COURSE HE CAN BE WRATHFUL TO THE NON BELIEVERS AND THOSE WHO KILL HIS CHILDREN BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN HE IS UNLOVING AND CARING HE IS A JUST GOD AND I REFUSE TO DENY OR REJECT HIM HOW DARE YOU ASK A CHRISTIAN TO DO THAT. I ONLY FORGIVE YOU BECAUSE THATS WHAT JESUS WOULD WANT. GOD SPOKE THOSE WORDS TO THE MEN WRITING IT.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jeffree
      Jeffree

      @Justin: You need to re-read loe02j’s responses again. Clearly that is a person with a much better understanding of the Bible than you have. Step away from the keypad & think about what “loe0″ wrote, and think about the Scripture quoted. So far you have failed to respond to “loe0″‘s very well made points. Pride keeps you from seeing that.

      At this point you are just repeating yourself & falling more deeply into sin.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      @justin:

      Sorry Justin, BUT YELLING LOUDER STILL doesn’t answer my question.
      All it says is that you are deeply offended that I asked it.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @shelly. no you asked me to make a choice and one of them was rejecting God which i will never do even if i had a gun to my head. never will i walk away from God or his loving and caring ways. i trust in Jesus i trust him with my soul and my body i believe in him and i love Jesus just as he loves me.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 9:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shannon1981
      Shannon1981

      @loe02j: Thank you so much for banging your head against the ignorant, bigoted, eternal brick wall that is our lovely troll Justin here.

      @Justin: you are a fool.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @everyone. after doing some more reading in my bible i realize i have made some mistakes. now that i have repented to God all i will say now is that im sorry for the things i had not previously realized. i also forgive all of you for the things you have said to me

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      Then you should stop libeling Jesus. You offer no evidence from the New Testament that Jesus condemns homosexuality or even calls it a sin. You base that on your “jewish” bible. The same one that condemns the shellfish eaters. I do hope that you have never been to Red Lobster.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 10:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @soupy. would you kindly tell me what part talks about shelfish i would like to read it i have my bible here with me now.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ed
      Ed

      @Justin: I’m a 64-yr-old gay man. I’ve been struggling with the Scripture and homosexuality all my life. I studied Sacred Scripture in grad school and in continuing education for many years. I disagree entirely with your understanding of the Scriptures you’ve quoted here, but I know full well how you came to these beliefs. To have a good personal relationship with Jesus, I’ve had to push out of my head almost everything I’ve been taught about the meaning of Scripture and let God teach me God’s truth. I see God as unknowable except in the lives of Jesus and other good people, living and dead. What little I know after all these years is that God is love. I know that God made me gay and I know God loves me as tbe gay man I was created to be. I hope you will turn to God and away from the old tapes about God that play apparently exclusively in your soul. I hope you get rid of your hate and/or fear of gay people and let yourself rest in God’s peace.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      I *love* how quickly Justin backpedaled!

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @marlene. i didnt back pedal after arguing i decided to read the book of mathew because as i said before i do read the bible and as i was reading i read some things that i had not previously read and thats what change my mind in a hurry the word of God things that i had not previously read or known about.

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      “For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him.” (Leviticus 20:9)

      Ever cursed your parents?

      “But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.” (Leviticus 11:10)

      “They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination.” (Leviticus 11:11)

      “Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you.” (Leviticus 11:12)

      Feb 16, 2011 at 11:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • loe02j
      loe02j

      “things that i had not previously read or known about.”

      Christianity has 2000+ years of history, and tremendous diversity of opinion about just about everything.

      There is or was disagreement about the nature of Christ, about the Trinity, about the nature of sacraments like baptism and communion, about the nature of God, about who is/will be saved and who will not, and just about everything else you can imagine.

      Every denomination, and every sub-denomination, and a great many individual churches, exist because of differences of opinion about what some set of passages in the Bible mean.

      All of this arises for a number of reasons, including the fallibility and imperfection of humans and the stubbornness of human ego, and more fundamentally, the intrinsic inability of words – symbols created by mankind to represent a tangible world – to fully and completely, and therefore accurately, describe the intangible and the absolute.

      Feb 17, 2011 at 2:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @everyone who criticized me about homosexuality NOT being in the new testament. Read 1 corinthians chapter 6 verse 9. I gues i was right to begin with hahaha

      Feb 20, 2011 at 5:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @everyone who criticized me here is the quote from 1 corinthians chapter 6 verses 9 and 10. Dont you know that evil people wont have a shae in the blessings of Gods kingdom. No one who is immoral or worships idols or is unfaithful in marriage or is a pervert or behaves like a HOMOSEXUAL will share in Gods kingdom. Neither will any thief or greedy person or drunkard or anyone who curses and cheats others.

      Feb 20, 2011 at 5:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Soupy
      Soupy

      I guess you’re out in a number of ways.

      Feb 20, 2011 at 6:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justiceontherocks
      justiceontherocks

      @justin: There is debate about whether the passage you sort of quote relates to “homosexuality” at all. See – http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc1.htm

      Note that in the same chapter Paul advises Xians not to allow disputes with fellow Xians to be resolved by non-Xians. Guess that means you can’t go to the Supreme Court, Justin.

      Maybe you should spend A LOT more time thinking about why all this concerns you so much.

      Feb 20, 2011 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      @justin:

      The old testament.
      I think you need to remember something vERY important.
      Jesus Christ was born a Jew.
      He died a Jew.
      I know of no proof that he ever converted to himself (converting to himself? Is that anything like masturbation?).
      So, until you show me actual proof that he had forsaken Judaism, I’m afraid that your arguments based on apostles hearsay.
      At least one of which when know to have been written by a man who was gay don’t carry much water.

      Feb 20, 2011 at 11:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      Justin, darling boy… do you not know that the word “homosexuality” wasn’t even *invented* until the late 1800s??

      Just what languages was used, honey… English? Try Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek.

      You think you’re the expert, Justin? The website http://www.biblegateway.com has dozens of translations… which one’s correct? You *do* know that translating is guesswork, right, Justin? You *do* know that there were words in ancient Greek which have NO equivalent in Old English, let alone Modern English, right?

      What’s the correct translation for ‘malakos’, Justin? What about “arsenokoitai”, Justin?

      Here’s a website you should look at, Justin… maybe you’ll learn something: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc1.htm

      Feb 20, 2011 at 11:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • magsmagenta
      magsmagenta

      This Dr Phil sounds dangerous to me, someone should try and get him off the air.
      I don’t have a son but I have a daughter and she’s always been allowed to choose her own toys and activities, If I did have a son it would be the same. I think it’s important to be able to find your own talents whatever gender they are ‘Supposed’ to belong to.
      When I was young my mother did try to steer us away from ‘Boy’ toys, but we borrowed them anyway.

      Feb 22, 2011 at 8:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      Mags — The day Dr. Phil’s show goes off the air is either when he gets tired of the daily grind, or if Oprah removes her seal of approval.

      Feb 22, 2011 at 9:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      Makes you wonder about this two-faced b*tch, don’t it?
      Having transsexuals on for ratings. Acting like she gives a crap, and then giving idiots like Doctor “Shill” her seal of approval.

      Feb 22, 2011 at 9:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @shelly i never claimed he had forsaken jews you idiot. i said after jesus created the new covenant with man chrisianity was born i never said he converted i stated that after he died on the cross there was a new covenant. that new covenant is christianity. Jesus is a christ which is the first word in Christianity DO YOU GET HAVE I SPELLED IT OUT CLEAR ENOUGH FOR YOU WHY DO YOU MAKE THINGS UP I NEVER SAID.

      Feb 23, 2011 at 2:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      people on here are stupid they make things up and put words in my mouth making false statments about what i have said even though i have read them in the bible which is 100% truth and doesnt lie. its such a pity it really is. they keep saying how the bible was originally not english, well abviously but hundreds of religious scholars and theologans have carfuly translated it to english with the proper degree of research. these people are religious experts but the morons on here dont understand that

      Feb 23, 2011 at 2:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @shelly. And by the way its not apostle hersay God himself told these people what to say they didnt jus make it up its the word of God written by man. man didnt just write this on their own they were told what to so in visions by God. Get your facts right before you speak religion to me. let me ask you somthing do you have a personal problem with God and Christianity. Do you feel God screwed you over in some way or do you just not believe in him all together? Answer me that one will you.

      Feb 23, 2011 at 3:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      Off topic, Justin. The topic of this discussion is on an episode of Dr. Phil where he told a mom she should take away toys aimed at girls from her son.

      Feb 23, 2011 at 6:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      @justin:

      Good point.
      I’ve never been much good at studying, believing, or accepting dogma.
      Also, Christ did not endorse the abandonment of Jewish laws such as Kashruth.

      Feb 23, 2011 at 8:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @shelly. i havnt abandaned the old laws in the old testament in fact Jesus said his purpose was not to do away with the old laws bit to suppport them and give them more meaning. but he also said that the only way to salvation is through him which is why a person has to accept Jesus and not just folllow the old laws like people did before his birth and resurection. and if your talking about needing to follow the old laws then again im right about Gays because the old testament talks about it too.

      Feb 23, 2011 at 3:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @marlene everyone who has been arguing with me has been off topic including your past comments so quit making yourself look dumb telling me im off topic. we have all been talking about Gays which is related to the topic of the page.

      Feb 23, 2011 at 3:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Shelley
      Shelley

      @shelly. i havnt abandaned the old laws in the old testament in fact Jesus said his purpose was not to do away with the old laws bit to suppport them and give them more meaning.

      You mean things like stoning?
      Or is it just the rules that offend your particular morality?

      Feb 23, 2011 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • t8r9u0t2h
      t8r9u0t2h

      justin

      “@everyone who criticized me about homosexuality NOT being in the new testament. Read 1 corinthians chapter 6 verse 9. I gues i was right to begin with hahaha”

      You are sinning again, Justin, please repent.

      First off, Justin, I and most Christian GLBTQ people are well aware of the way I Cor 6: 9 has been used to libel and slander GLBTQ people.

      And before I go into the translation flaws in the common interpretation of it, there is something you need to understand right from the get go:

      you have slandered and libeled people.

      “Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor arsenokiote nor malakoi nor arsenokiote nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

      You are a slanderer. Having applied the above passage to us, you are now judged, by God, under it as well, and you are a slanderer.

      Guess what that means?

      You will not inherit the kingdom of God, as long as you continue to be a slanderer, Justin.

      Now, the two words that homophobes traditionally interpret as men who have sex with men are arsenokoite and malakoi in the original greek text. Neither mean men who have sex with men. In fact, greek of Paul’s day had two words that did mean “the passive and active participants in homosexual acts” as biblegateway puts is (falsely) – but those words are erestes and eranamos.

      So understand this: Paul did not use the two words his audience would have understood as ‘men who have sex with men’. Paul used two different words, one of which he apparently made up on the spot.

      Malakoi means soft, fine, and was used elsewhere in the Bible to describe clothing. The greeks did use it as an expression of contempt for effeminacy, but, their understanding of effeminacy was very different from our modern one. They did not consider homosexuality itself to be effeminate, and malakoi was used as an insult for men who tried to hard to be attractive to women, failed in business, were cowardly in war or avoided warfair, were gluttons, drank too much, etc.

      Arsenokoite is the word Paul made up. No one is completely sure what he meant by it, and the majority of the subsequent uses of it are simply paraphrases on the passage in 1 Cor 6. But there is one notable exception wherein a husband is accused of committing arsenokoite against his wife.

      Your glee was sinful, Justin.

      Further is the evil in equating our loving and intimate relationships with the other things in Paul’s sin list. Lists are collections of things that share a common trait, and when you assert that 1 Cor 6:9 is about homosexuality, you are saying that our loving relationships are the equivalent of stealing, idolatry, alcoholism, and your own grievous sin of slander.

      That is evil, Justin. It shows that you have no moral or ethical foundation, that you cannot distinguish between right and wrong, harmful and harmless.

      “@shelly i never claimed he had forsaken jews you idiot.”

      Calling Shelly an idiot was sin on your part, Justin. I reminded you of the following once before, perhaps you did not learn the lesson the first time:

      Matthew 5:22 (New International Version, ©2010)

      22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[a][b] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[c] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

      Do you see yet how your contempt for GLBTQ people keeps leading you to sin? The fact that your anti-gay theology causes you to sin over and over again is proof that your anti-gay theology is not from God.

      “people on here are stupid” Justin, post 164

      See the above quote from Matthew 5. Justin, keep reading it until it sinks in – you sin when you call people names.

      “God himself told these people what to say they didnt jus make it up its the word of God written by man.”

      The issue of the origin of the Bible is different from the issue of interpretation and translation. Paul was not infallible, and there are things he wrote that modern Christians reject completely based on Christ’s teachings. But with the passage from 1 Cor 6, there is a huge translation fraud at work, as well as the contradiction of a passage that condemns slander and while allegedly slandering millions of people.

      Think about that for a moment. If Paul had been trying to communicate ‘men who have sex with men’ – his comparison of our loving relationships to alcoholism, stealing and adultery is slander, but Paul says slanderers will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, so Paul’s letters come from someone who is not saved, a slanderer who is rejected by God.

      Equating our relationships with stealing and so on, is slander. If that is what Paul meant to express, then he discredits everything he wrote, he judged and condemned himself within 1 Cor 6:9 when he slandered us.

      Falsely translated, 1Cor6:9 is self-canceling, it slanders GLBTQ people while asserting that slanderers do not serve God.

      “Get your facts right before you speak religion to me.”

      As you judge others, Justin, you will be judged. You don’t have your facts right, Justin, not by a long shot. So now you must be silent until you do get it right.

      “so quit making yourself look dumb”

      Once again, you put yourself in danger of the fires of hell. Please repent.

      Feb 23, 2011 at 3:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • t8r9u0t2h
      t8r9u0t2h [Different person #1 using similar name]

      “Jesus said his purpose was not to do away with the old laws bit to suppport them and give them more meaning”

      No, that’s not quite right.
      Matthew 5:17 (New International Version, ©2010)

      17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

      Presuming that “fulfill” is an accurate translation, it does not mean ‘support and given more meaning’.

      ful·fill
      ? ?/f?l?f?l/ Show Spelled[fool-fil] Show IPA
      –verb (used with object)
      1. to carry out, or bring to realization, as a prophecy or promise.
      2. to perform or do, as duty; obey or follow, as commands.
      3. to satisfy (requirements, obligations, etc.): a book that fulfills a long-felt need.
      4. to bring to an end; finish or complete, as a period of time: He felt that life was over when one had fulfilled his threescore years and ten.
      5. to develop the full potential of (usually used reflexively): She realized that she could never fulfill herself in such work.

      The first meaning would mean that Christ came to carry out the Law as prosecutor and judge – and Christian theology teaches that he enforced it on himself in our place.

      The second and third meanings, indicates that Christ came to obey the Law to a degree that humans cannot. We cannot be perfect as the law requires, but as God and human at the same time, only Christ could, and did.

      The fourth meaning indicates that by obeying the Law more fully than humans ever could, Christ finished and brought to an end the domination of that law over humans.

      And the 5th meaning indicates that in doing all of the above – carrying out the law, its potential is met. It is finished.

      Because Christ fulfilled the Law, we are no longer condemned by it, but are rather redeemed by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, rather than redeemed, or damned, by our ability to obey or fulfill the Law ourselves.

      Of course, your inaccurate understanding of the aforementioned passage does nothing to prove that anyone, particularly those who teach hatred of GLBTQ people, actually understand the Law accurately.

      Anti-gay theology violates the Law much, much, much more than it even comes close to obeying it. When people interpret two particular passages from Leviticus, one of the Law books, as condemning homosexuality, they are breaking other components of the Law. That means that their interpretation is wrong.

      And, Justin, it was a tactical mistake on your part to even reference Matthew5:17 obliquely, because subsequent to it is a passage that condemns the name-calling and insults you have engaged is, pointing out that such behavior is unlawful.

      You’ve tried to apply the Law to GLBTQ people, but broke it yourself, and to break any of it is to break all of it.

      Feb 24, 2011 at 1:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • justin
      justin

      @marlene so what if the word homosexuality wasnt around when jesus walked the earth. the reason its in new bibles is because when they translate bibles they put modern terms that we use today but it all means the same thing as the original its just worded so that modern man can understand it better when reading it thats all.

      Mar 13, 2011 at 10:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • t8r9u0t2h
      t8r9u0t2h [Different person #2 using similar name]

      justin

      “so what if the word homosexuality wasnt around when jesus walked the earth.”

      Of all the material presented, this is what you chose to respond to?

      While the English word homosexual was not yet coined in Christ’s time, the concept certainly was. Koine greek had two words for men who have sex with men – erestes and eranamos. Neither appear in the NT, even though it was primarily written in greek.

      Further, remember that when it comes to the Bible, the presumption, the context, is of an all-knowing and all-powerful God. Such a God could absolutely invent a word as say “it means men who are not sexually interested in women” and then use it, oh, the Laws transcribed by the Levite priests.

      So if homosexuality were such an important issue to God, why did God not give the people of Israel a word for it, define it to them, to make His meaning perfectly clear?

      “the reason its in new bibles is because when they translate bibles they put modern terms that we use today ”

      So you are admitting that some translators put their own biases and assumptions into the translations.

      “but it all means the same thing as the original”

      However, it does not, which is the whole point. The Hebrew words now translated to create condemnations of homosexuality simply do not mean homosexual. The greek words in the New Testament now translated to create condemnations of homosexuality simply do not mean homosexual.

      And Paul, in all of his surviving, canonical letters, did not ever use either of the two greek words of his culture and time, that actually did mean “men who have sex with men”.

      “its just worded so that modern man can understand it better when reading it thats all.”

      Worded so that modern man will understand what some biased people what them to understand the way those biased people want it understood.

      Justin, I challenged your claims at considerable detail, and it is sin on your part to just ignore it all. Please repent.

      Mar 13, 2011 at 10:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      Justin…you lost. Lost bad, and lost with no sense of pride. Humanity ALWAYS prevails. Folks like you have hid behind your religion to promote your own irrational hatred and evil. You use religion as an excuse to cover up those vile traits. Now go eat your large slice of humble pie you coward :)

      Mar 14, 2011 at 1:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Marlene
      Marlene

      Thanks for your excellent response, t8r9u0t2h!

      Unfortunately, all this will go over Justin’s pretty little head, because our facts doesn’t match what our dear little cultie has been infested with by his masters in the American Taliban.

      Mar 14, 2011 at 5:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SpectacularMe
      SpectacularMe

      When I was a kid my father took away all my girly stuff. I’m a teen now and I feel empty because As I grow and see the world, meet other people.. It made me realize how deprived I was when I was a kid.

      PARENTS, Always support your kids no matter what.

      Mar 31, 2011 at 11:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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