You’re the embarrassment, Old Timer, and you embarrass us all with your driveling tirades about things you just can’t understand. No one is looking for a pat on the head from you. In fact, we don’t even want your spite and resentfulness around us as we do the work to bring about the changes you and people like yourself never could.

That’s your problem. You resent the fact that my generation is making progress where you couldn’t. I won’t say we don’t want your generation to help us, because we do. But we don’t need your kind of sad, frustrated badgering and self-destruction in our fight. Its time for you to just crawl off the stage and wallow in your misery.

If that march is their best, then their best is a dismal failure. They accomplished nothing. I saw the tape of them on CNN, and they were an embarrassment. They had nothing to say. This wasn’t about what they wanted to do, it was about them posing as giving a shit. It’s all a pose.

There are real battles to be fought and real work to be done, but you and your crowd have no interest in any of it. You want a pat on the head? Not from me, bud. I’m a cranky old goat whose seen more than his share of bullshitters, and that’s exactly what this march was: a parade of bullshitters.

As I said before, I presented facts and you spewed lies, opinion and deception. Now you’re spitting venom at thousands of people who are doing their best, as they see it, to help enact change for the GLBT community in this country. What more is there to say, other than you’re obviously a bitter old man who resents youth (I noticed your derogatory comment about “kids who had nothing better to do that day).

Have you thought of perhaps seeking help for your anger and resentment? Barring that, maybe you could just focus on telling kids to get off your lawn since what you’re doing here amounts to much the same thing.

http://campaignsilo.firedoglak.....e-pajamas/

I said it before, and I will say it again- Old Timer is just a troll with talking points. I was told not to waste my time with him and I will give others the same advice.

That’s real work. You basically had 10,000-20,000 people jerking off in Washington, D.C. for nothing. Those people should have been on telephones making calls in ME and WA. And instead of spending money to travel to D.C., tbey should have sent it to organizations fighting on those propositions.

But see, that’s REAL WORK, and real work is the furthest possible thing from your mind. You and your kind are all about the illusion and the drama. You are posers and pretenders. Nothing you’ve done for gay people will amount to anything, and if you keep it up, then it never will.

The accomplishments we’ve made in the real world have come largely through real work, not the kind of verbal masturbation we saw in Washington, D.C. from this bogus Equality event that virtually no one attended, and which represented no one by a few thousand kids who had nothing better to do that day.

In fact, I don’t think it even represented them. I don’t think most of the people who attended it really cared much about anything but a day in the sun to play pretend.

I guess if you lose a factual argument the next best thing to do is create a false dichotomy. There is nothing that says that many of those who are in D.C. right now aren’t also sending money and/or going to WA and ME to help out. Unless you’re privy to the inner details of each marcher’s schedule, I think you should probably stop demeaning them and their actions on that front.

Of course there’s also the question of who’s to say which method of activism works best. For many of us, we’ve found that the cocktail circuit activism that you and Barney Frank prefer has led to little more than making a few people much wealthier. As for the “friendly, quiet homo” activism that you’re pushing now, that also hasn’t worked at all. So where does that leave us?

Some of us think its time we took a page from the civil rights movement of the ’60s and became more vocal in our approach. It worked then, perhaps it will work now. Perhaps not, but we’ve tried your way for many years to no avail and now we’re trying something else. If it bothers you so much that you have to post lies, distortions and strawman arguments you can always try ex-gay therapy or something. The rest of us are going to keep on marching.

And you know what they say about opinions, don’t you?

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody had one!

This is still a free country and we can all do as we like…including getting on a bus and going to Wash. DC to march in a parade…and taking a shit in a porta-potty, if we so desire.

You don’t get to tell us, in this Democratic Republic, what we need to do, should do and must do.

If feel the need to exercise that kind of power, I would suggest that you invest in a one-way plane ticket to Moscow, where your kind would be more than welcomed in the Politburo, Comrade Old Timer.

See, your crowd really isn’t very interested in getting anything done. What you’re about is the ILLUSION, and the drama. So you go to D.C., rent a microphone and say some words, and go home. You felt good. Gee. So impressive.

The problem with your response is that it is filled with nothing but opinion and conjecture. There are no facts rebutting my facts at all. You “think”, “in my view”, and you “trust”. All of this shows that you are basing your – and my – civil rights on a hunch. Blind faith. I just can’t do that with Obama because he’s let us down and acted expressly against our interests too many times.

On the other hand, I’ve learned that trying to discuss politics with those who venture into the realm of “I believe” is useless so I think its best if you held to your faith and I’ll hold to my fact.

Don’t delude yourselves, he may support a ban on DOMA but he’ll NEVER come out in support of marriage equality because he values his career far too much, political suicide. There are none except Dennis Kucinich would would willingly stick their necks out.

It certainly does help, but that does not make anything a slam-dunk. If Obama plays it wrong and the military brass testified that this would hurt during wartime, I think congressional support would evaporate.

If Obama issues a stop-loss WHILE pushing for an end to DADT and makes it clear that this is the case, he will force Congress to take up the issue. As it stands even Harry Reid is asking Obama to just DO SOMETHING!

Again, for Obama to issue the stop-loss without buy-in from the military and Congress would, in my view anyway, be shooting himself (and, more to the point us, in the foot).

Which brings us to the last item that needs to be corrected. You claim that Obama is lobbying Congress, yet there is plenty of concrete evidence that the opposite is in fact true.

I’m not making that claim, Obama is. And, for now, I trust his claim.

Two Democratic members of the House have proposed bringing this to the floor as well as one Senator and each time the White House has pressured them to back down. I agree that Obama is lobbying Congress, just not in the direction you imply.

I accept the White House’s view that they’re waiting for the right timing. Obama hasn’t even been in office for nine months.

I can’t wait. LOL

@Schlukitz

I aim to please. :D

Obama needs to immediately stop the bleeding while putting immense pressure on the doctors to permanently close up the wound.

That’s a good mix of truth and lie you’ve got going there. Let me correct a few things…

1). Yes, a veto-proof majority did vote for DADT in 1993. Unfortunately, you don’t mention that many Democrats who then voted for it have come out against it now. That kind of changes things, doesn’t it?

2). Its true that this is a federal law and that if Obama were to issue a stop-loss, the next president could rescind it. Once again, though, you don’t tell the entire truth. If Obama issues a stop-loss WHILE pushing for an end to DADT and makes it clear that this is the case, he will force Congress to take up the issue. As it stands even Harry Reid is asking Obama to just DO SOMETHING!

3). Which brings us to the last item that needs to be corrected. You claim that Obama is lobbying Congress, yet there is plenty of concrete evidence that the opposite is in fact true. Two Democratic members of the House have proposed bringing this to the floor as well as one Senator and each time the White House has pressured them to back down. I agree that Obama is lobbying Congress, just not in the direction you imply.

The one thing I agree with Obama about tonight is his call for us to pressure our leaders to pressure him. That is exactly what the protests outside the HRC cocktail party and the march tomorrow are doing.

Like so many gay activists who are all enthusiasm and no study, you don’t seem to understand either the history of DADT or anything about how things actually work in Washington.

DADT is a federal law, not just a military policy. It was born in 1993, when Clinton tried to end the ban on gays. The Joint Chiefs, the Religious Right, and the chairmen of the two Armed Services committees joined together and steamrollered it. The gay lobby never knew what hit ‘em, because like this weekend’s marchers they listened basically to themselves.

When Clinton tried to end the ban, the opponents threatened to insert legal language that would have wiped out what little progress had been made in the 1970s and 1980s. DADT is a compromise, and it passed with a veto-proof majority.

Yes, Obama could end enforcement. But if he did that without the support of the military, you can bet that the same thing would happen that did in ’93. Instead, Obama is lobbying Congress, and having the military work on implementation rules.

When repeal is proposed, there will be hearings in Congress, and senior military personnel will be testifying. If you somehow think that Congress is going to ignore that testimony during wartime, you’re crazy. So, like it or not, in light of both history and current circumstances, Obama cannot in the real world just wave a wand.

Well, he could wave the wand I suppose, but it would get waved right back very, very quickly. That is the reality of the situation, and that is why it will take more time. It’s not what you want to hear and it’s not what I like either, but it’s the way it is.

Earlier, under a different article, I posted a link and quote to some alleged statement by a person on Obama’s transition team that suggested 2010. Presumably the economy and health care are higher on the priority list.

Hopefully the military was told that this is going to happen at some point so they better get training material ready for the transition and figure out what the rules are going to be (e.g., how to handle complaints regarding harassment).

Obama also called on Congress to repeal the Defense Of Marriage Act, which limits how state, local and federal bodies can recognize partnerships and determine benefits. He also called for a law to extend benefits to domestic partners.

He expressed strong support for the Human Rights Campaign agenda — ending discrimination against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people — but stopped short of laying out a detailed plan for how to get there.

Richard Socarides, who advised President Bill Clinton’s administration on gay and lesbian policy, said Obama delivered “a strong speech in tone, although only vaguely reassuring in content.”

“The president and Nobel winner came and paid his respects, but tomorrow many will ask: What’s his plan, what’s his timetable?”
The gay community is somewhat split as to whether Obama should be expected to produce results right away.

The Human Rights Campaign, which invited Obama to speak at its dinner Saturday night, said it remains hopeful of seeing more action.

And we remain hopeful that Santa Claus will have lots of toys and goodies on his Christmas sleigh for us.

Wrong again! Obviously, you need a primer in Federal Government 101.

The President can issue an executive order stopping the dismissals of LGBT people dead in it’s tracks.

You really should stop making such a fool of yourself. It’s embarrassing to all of us.

…at least he’s speaking to/at us? Can’t say that about too many former presidents.

Just give us the rights we are all entitled to as American taxpayers and citizens, and we will get out of everyone’s face.

He also made the same promise to 300 million Americans when he ws campaigning for office a year ago. The question still remains…

when?

Because that’s what he does best.

We don’t need to be accepted or tolerated Karen, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH US. Write something of real value for LGBT – something about real “equality,” instead of treating us like defective people that need special considerations.

In my young adult novel, Grumble Bluff, I touch on the issues of bullying, childhood obesity, and losing a parent to a communicable disease. I know that this method is subtle, but I hope that in this way I can help readers discover the benefits of tolerance and acceptance. Best of luck to you as you fight for the right to be truly free in this country founded for just that purpose.

Respectfully,
Karen Bessey Pease
Author
http://www.karenbesseypease.com