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When It Comes To Men, How Young Is Too Young?

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Hollywood and the gay community were rocked last week when out X-Men director Bryan Singer was accused of multiple counts of sexual assault by Michael Egan, who was 17 years old at the time the incidents allegedly happened.

The Singer case is just the latest example of some sticky younger/older issues that have been grabbing headlines lately.

39-year-old Dustin Lance Black has been criticized in some circles for his relationship with 19-year-old Olympic diver Tom Daley, and porn studio Sean Cody has come under fire from at least one angry gay teacher for allowing an 18-year-old model to film scenes while still enrolled in high school.

Though the age of consent varies from state to state (even in the case of consensual sex with Egan, Bryan Singer would’ve still been found guilty of a misdemeanor or felony in California since Egan was a minor at the time), the entire situation has brought to light some thorny issues surrounding the fascination with youth in the gay community.

With that said, we pose the question to you, Queerty readers: When It Comes To Men, How Young Is Too Young?

By:           Rob Smith
On:           Apr 23, 2014
Tagged: , ,

  • 152 Comments
    • windreader
      windreader

      This usually isn’t an issue for me as I have always been attracted to men my own age or older. It keeps me from having to financially support my dating partners. I am 50 and my son (adopted) is 26. I don’t even chat with anyone younger than my son other than to politely say “not interested”.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • redcarpet
      redcarpet

      I’m turning 30 and at this point if we can’t legally enjoy a glass of wine together, then I don’t have time, or even desire, for you. Frankly, it’s better if you are out of college, too many changes going on with college students (post-bachelors work excepted).

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tardis
      tardis

      I don’t go below 4 years. I like being in the same age range as my partner. I won’t look at anyone 23 and under.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • carey579
      carey579

      Depends on your own age. If you’re a teenager yourself then 17 is in your own age group.

      But as long as it’s legal who not? I mean the media ‘hated’ and yet loved to obsessively report on Courtney Stodden (16)’s marriage with Doug Hutchison (51) or Anna Nicole Smith etc.

      Fugly old Hugh Hefner is CELEBRATED for keeping a harem of young ‘bunnies’ and Calvin Klein gets ousted for having one young ‘toyboy’. Double Standards.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • spanky
      spanky

      Depends when I top I like a smooth young tight 18-25 yo. When I bottom I prefer an older experienced Man

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PARKAVMAN
      PARKAVMAN

      I check I.D. at the door.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • loren_1955
      loren_1955

      Are we talking double standards here? The straight world is rife with older/younger relationships, silver daddies and silver cougars wanting young companions. If the relationship is legal and consensual what is the grief? Love knows no bounds, let’s let that be.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bingoboy969
      bingoboy969

      I think it depends on the to people in the relationship , I was 42 and my boyfriend was 18 and we had 3 wonderful years together till I had to move for work , and he was unable . We are still great friends

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @loren_1955:

      Double standards? Come on, nobody looks at Hugh Heffner and whatever girlfriend he has and thinks “Wow, they really love each other.”

      No matter the sexuality Heff looks creepy.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • middleagespread
      middleagespread

      I never before would have considered dating someone 25. Now, my current is 25 and I am 45. Strange that I have met someone I am so compatible with. By no means am I wealthy. He makes much more than I do. My rule has always been to date either my age or older. Could be that he has grown up with a much more advanced belief system. Or, access to the internet has made the younger guys more mature than I was when I was that age. Hard to say what is best now.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Alan down in Florida
      Alan down in Florida

      My rule has always been his age had to be higher than my belt size.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • QuintoLover
      QuintoLover

      I’m 22 and I won’t date anybody younger than me period. Partly because I’m attracted to older guys (my limit for a serious relationship is like late 30s and my limit for fooling around is 50s) but also, I’d rather date somebody who has his sh*t together. Admittedly hypocritical since I’m a little lost right now but that’s just how I am

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LubbockGayMale
      LubbockGayMale

      If both are happy, why should anyone care? Although I admit any legally ‘underage’ partner is a risk, especially in the south, as long as no one is being exploited leave ‘em alone!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      I like to f*ck young guys, but I’ve never had jail bait in my bed. I take precautions.

      If you want to know my opinion about age of consent, I must declared that I think that a 16 year-old girl or boy should be able to choose with whom she or he is going to have sex with.

      I vote for 16 yo. But I comply with the brazilian law, that established 18 yo as the limit.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jazz4108
      jazz4108

      The age of consent in your state is the answer to the question legally. Love wise though the heart wants what the heart wants. Peodphiles and prepubalesents or whatever they are called is still sick in my book and thats why I think 16 or older for guys can date as old a guy as they please. At 16 you are old enough to make your own decisions about who you are and who you are attracted to. Im in my 30s and prefer the look of the younger guys but I could not date anyone not out of college as they still have to much to learn in life.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jwrappaport
      jwrappaport

      @spanky: Well spoke. I couldn’t agree more.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DarkZephyr
      DarkZephyr

      @Cam: I was under the impression that @loren_1955: was referencing this portion of the article: “the entire situation has brought to light some thorny issues surrounding the fascination with youth in the gay community.”

      The point being that this “youth obsession” exists within the straight community as well.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      First of all, pedophilia is a PERVERSION and is against the law whether you are Straight or Gay. Gay Men and Lesbian have lived on the margins, and have participated in all sorts of “FETISHES” because of that, with some freedom. But “pedophilia” is crossing the line. Evangelical Christians use “pedophilia” against us, saying that we are all pedophiles. I cringe when stories come out about a man my age 54, getting caught with an under age boy. I know how damaging that is to our community. Yet in the fetish sites, you see it all the time, the fantasy of the PERV, the TABOO. That perversion makes it harder for all of us. A healthy well-adjusted “MAN” or “WOMAN” gay or straight, can have a healthy relationship with an ADULT, a pedophile is exploitive and controlling. Pedophilia should be rejected by our community. For God’s sake even criminals and murderers reject this. Too young is 18 years old, embarrassing and pathetic is 54 and 18 years old…Grow up and learn to connect with men and women our own age. It will be better and healthier for our community in the long run!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stephen M
      Stephen M

      Rule of thumb – never date anyone less than half your age plus 7.

      Bryan Singer is 48 – he should probably not date anyone younger than 31 (24 + 7).

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chaz
      Chaz

      Frankly I’m amazed at amount the young guys who want to sleep with older guys. I’ve had 18 year olds come on to me very very very strongly and I am twice there age! Personally I have not as yet knowingly slept with someone who is more than 13 years younger than me. Sleeping with younger is a choice I make rarely. Generally I still prefer older, as I have always done.

      But in answer to the question… just follow the law regarding the age of consent…

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Stephen M: Well that is a GREAT “rule of thumb” for us GEEZERS, but it won’t help the 20 something’s from going to jail LOL Half of 18 is 9 years old, half of 30 is 15 years old…Something to think about, I would want all the young guys to go to prison following your rule…smile

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rikard
      rikard

      As a single man over 45 I shaved a few years off my dating profiles and hook up ads. When I turned 50 I decided to say “fuck it” and own my age with pride. The week after my birthday three of the most gorgeous men under 25 I had ever undressed. Three years later and many men of all ages I have adjusted to being the daddy and indulging my young partners their fantasies. However, knowing that men lie (old men lie to appear younger and young men lie to appear older) I never trust a boy saying 18. When letting them down gently they frequently try different versions of their truth. Half are older, but think I will respond better if they are younger, 30% really are the age they claim and 20% are either younger or entrenched in some bigger lie that suggests they are unhinged and potentially dangerous. I SAY no one under 25, but make some exceptions. I prefer men close to my own age, but AIDS thinned our generational herd and I spent many closeted years that left me with a few hang ups. Now out and proud I work through my issues and enjoy sex in a variety of sometimes stable relationships. The enthusiasm my younger partners and I bring to sex and the appreciation we share for each other is nourishing for both of us. Sex with an older partner is a thrill with a short shelf life, as is sex with a younger partner. They are potential periods in our lives that are self terminating.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Chaz: You are right, I think they are looking for a “FATHER FIGURE” since many of us didn’t get that. But a healthy Father is a mentor not a sex partner. I am 54 and draw the line at 40. Prefer over 45. Of course young guys are great to “LOOK” at and they need good “MENTORS” not lascivious GEEZERS praying and exploiting their need for mentorship.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Stephen M: Sorry my math might be flawed but you get the point LOL

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotboyvb81
      hotboyvb81

      18 is legal- but it’s HARDLY grown up! I don’t think a male is truly a man/grown up until he is 25-30.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jwb1978
      jwb1978

      Really depends on the individuals involved. My partner is 21 years younger than me but he’s a business owner and very mature. He keeps me young at heart and we have a great relationship!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 5:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jwb1978
      jwb1978

      @hotboyvb81: very true!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • john.k
      john.k

      I’m 65 and my boyfriend just turned 27. Come 16 June we’ll have been together and very much in love or 8 years.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kewlsocr
      kewlsocr

      This is a broad question. there is the porn issue, there is the dating issue, and the hookup issue. Although legally you can do porn once you’re 18, I don’t think studios in good conscience, should release videos until the guy is out of school. Too much potential damage to his life otherwise. I started fooling around with high school guys when I was 13. Boys my age were clueless, so you wanted older guys who knew what they were doing. When I was in high school masculine, grown men turned me on, so that’s who I had sex with. Technically illegal I guess, but I loved it and they loved it. There is age of consent, which is basically straight politicians deciding who can have sex, and then there is age of reality, which depends on how & when you mature, and what types you are attracted to. There are lots of apps & sites for young guys into older guys. It’s a very real & legitimate thing. Since nobody can agree on the appropriate age, they should be done away with. In many States a 16 y/o can have sex, in Brazil a 14 y/o, In Europe 14 in many countries. I was ready at 13 and dove into sex very happily and still do.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotboyvb81
      hotboyvb81

      the thing that bugs me most about the kid in porn is that they convinced him to bareback- and his mother knows he did it- talk about mother of the year- what an idiot!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Apparatus
      Apparatus

      Since turning 18 I have never had sex with anyone under 18.

      I am 27 now, and I enjoy having sex with guys of all different ages. It depends on what I’m in the mood for that day. My age, daddies, college guys. The closest I’ve come is an 18 year old I had sex with last year. When he arrived at my door I didn’t believe he was 18, so I checked his ID and we had a good laugh about it but he checked out fine. I like variety of all kinds I guess, ages, races, sizes, dominant, submissive, fetishes, vanilla, it all depends.

      Personally I believe that the age of consent should be lowered to 16. I figure that if society trusts you with piloting a few tons of steel on wheels, you should be able to make decisions about who you sleep with and be street smart enough know if you’re being exploited.

      I got started with sex at a very young age, 13 to be exact. At first I enjoyed sex with boys my own age, but once I turned 15 I started going after older men. I would always lie and say I was 18, and they never questioned it. Sometimes if I thought they were cool enough I would tell them my real age after and most weren’t phased, it was very much a “Well you’re not going to tell anyone are you cus I’m not” attitude across the board. And once again for the record, I was pursing them. I don’t think anyone could argue that I was being exploited, I knew exactly what I was doing and got what I wanted.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotshot70
      hotshot70

      legally, 18+ is ok. An adult with someone under 18 is BIG trouble. Two minors meeting is some trouble, but not as severe. My rule of thumb, if they have not finished puberty, NO! I prefer 21 and older. I have even turned down hot young guys (even when they are begging for some action). I tell them to see me after they turn 18.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DistingueTraces
      DistingueTraces

      Age is just one factor that puts people in a position of social inequality that can lead to a coercive power imbalance.

      A 17-year-old and a 21-year-old meeting socially as peers may have a perfectly nice romance.

      But a 21-year-old casting director plying a 17-year-old runaway with drugs and the vague promise of stardom in exchange for sex is obviously a criminally abusive predator.

      A 21-year-old teaching assistant adopting a professorial role to get in the pants of a 17-year-old freshman may not be a predator, but he is certainly a creep.

      And so on.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sangsue
      sangsue

      If it was a 50 year old man with a 20 year old woman, no one would bat an eyelash.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 6:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jmmartin
      jmmartin

      If it was good enough for Lord Buckley it’s good enough for me. Richard “Lord”) Buckley was a stand up comic in the late 50s and 60s who had a huge following that included everyone from Frank Sinatra to George Harrison, with Jonathan Winters and his progeny thrown in. Buckley did routines, and one of his best was called “The Bad Rapping of the Marquis de Sade.” At some point, Buckley introduces “the Mark [Marquis'] Buddy Cat, Prince Minsky.” As it turns out, Prince Minsky is a Mephistophelean figure who’s “been there, done that / Whanged it, danged it, and…done in his done-in’s.” One of Minsky’s character traits is that he loves the chicks, and he likes them “two to toothless.” I crack up when I hear it, and although I like looking, I would not be the least interested in messing with anyone underage.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 7:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DistingueTraces
      DistingueTraces

      @sangsue: Of course they would. Plenty of eyelashes get batted at Hugh Hefner, but he has enough money that he doesn’t have to care.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @DistingueTraces: Actually that is not true, remember the Lesbian Couple in Texas, she turned 18, both her and her 16 year old girl friend were still in high school. But the day she turned 18 the parents of the 16 year old turned her into the police and she was CONVICTED in Florida of statutory rape

      Apr 23, 2014 at 7:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @DistingueTraces: Florida not Texas sorry about that…

      Apr 23, 2014 at 7:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DistingueTraces
      DistingueTraces

      @Yahoo Thom: Yes, those stories are of course sad and cruel – no surprise, though, from Florida’s “justice” system.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 8:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @DistingueTraces: Totally agree. People keep pointing out this goes on in the straight community too and no one cares. I disagree. Look at guys like Woody Allen and Roman Polanski. People do care but like you say if you have enough money you don’t don’t give a fuck.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 8:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @kewlsocr: @kewlsocr: Hush, Hush. Don’t say we can fu*k 14 year-old here in Brazil. People will begin moving to the country in masses, specially straight guys.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 8:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @Billy Budd: If you need a law to keep yourself away from kids then there’s something most definitely wrong with you. 16 years should be with other 16 years and not grown up men.

      Now I know why you’ve been so vociferously defending Brian Singer.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 8:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @DistingueTraces: The point is that having sex with an under-age person is illegal. If you are of age 18 in California, the by all means have at it. But there are limits, straight or gay. My BF is 56 and dated a 30 year old before me (54), he said although he was very hot, that wore off and then they had nothing in common. Not music, films, nothing really. We need to have and foster healthier relationships. Youth is great, I was young once and I liked older men. But now that I am an older man, I understand why some of those older men turned me down when I was 22.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 8:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Throbert McGee
      Throbert McGee

      I had a major hard-on for “DILFs” (though the slang term hadn’t been invented then!) pretty much since puberty. My first sexual encounter did not occur until I was 19, but I quickly realized that I liked hairy, masculine “daddies” in the 35-50 range a whole lot more than I liked guys my own age!

      When I was around 30, I had sex a few times with a 17-year-old who thought for some reason that *I* was some kind of “DILF” — it was extremely flattering, but we did not jump right into bed. In fact, a couple weeks elapsed between the first time he asked me for sex and the first time that we actually did anything. Technically, what I did was illegal, but I don’t have a problem admitting it, because the sex that I had with the 17-year-old was safe, gentle, and friendly, and he possessed great intellectual maturity and we agreed beforehand that neither of us wanted to become “boyfriends”; we would just be “sex buddies.” No one was deceived and we remained friends after he had satisfied his youthful libido/curiosity with me a few times.

      I think that if you’re an older guy and a young guy approaches you, you have an ethical obligation to be more sexually conservative with him than you might be with a man of your own age and experience. It’s about “role modeling” — we always talk about how LGBTQ youth are in desperate need of good role models, but for some reason, certain gay men think only with their dicks and EPIC FAIL to think about role modeling safe and sane approaches to sex (and not role modeling reckless behaviors).

      And I agree with DistingueTraces that you need to look at “power imbalances”, and not merely at whether a guy was under or over the defined age of consent in the jurisdiction where the sex took place.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 8:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @Stache99: Here in Brazil we are allowed to fuc* 14 year-olds, but I never ventured below the 19 yo line. I don’t like children.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 9:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Throbert McGee: Yes we should be good role models, “MENTORS”, a role model does not show a 16 year old that a having sex with underage men is OK, it is illegal. 18 and 50, I guarantee you someone is going to get hurt, most likely the 18 year old..

      Apr 23, 2014 at 9:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dbmyers
      dbmyers

      @LubbockGayMale: Bravo! You said it right!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 9:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotboyvb81
      hotboyvb81

      watched Baby Daddy tonight- 1 character says to a girl who’s chaperoning a prom- when she says, ‘I’m going to Prom’ he replies- Dating a high schooler is creepy…also sad, but mostly creepy…’ Well Tom Daley was still in HS when he started with DLB….Oh- the female character was about 26-27…..and the audience clearly approved of the comment with claps and laughs.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotboyvb81
      hotboyvb81

      sex with anyone over 18 is OK….but a relationship?? Any 40 year old with anything in common with a teenager- is ONE SAD 40 year old!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @hotboyvb81: I totally agree, sort of shows a lack of judgment, self-control and maturity. He is not a “TROPHY” he is a neon sign that says “SAD”!

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @hotboyvb81: I was 35 when I had a relationship with a 19 year old, and even though we had extremely different levels of maturity, it was a successful and satisfying relationship. I became his mentor and lover. I taugth him how to love and gave him “lessons” on music, literature, cinema, arts, history, politics, etc. I gave him a lot but he also gave me something. He made me feel very happy while it lasted. We are stil friends, he became a succesful scientist and has recently got a grant from the government. I am very proud of him. This happened 5 years ago, in the US.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Billy Budd: That is not the typical story though, of course there are men that mature early. Typically men do not mature early, straight or gay

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mltee
      mltee

      It is disappointing to see how many people are willing to make decisions like this for others. They might as well be religious fundamentalists, conservatives or evangelicals who insist on projecting their “morality” onto the rest of the humanity. I would have hoped for more tolerance from this community. Thanks for your concern, but you need to mind your own business and try harder not to judge people whose values are not the same as yours.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faggot
      Faggot

      The USA: the country most obsessed with age and simultaneously the most ageist, and the one with the most contradictory double-standards.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 10:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BritAus
      BritAus

      One question that some of you might be able to help me with:
      How is it that whenever I look at guys dating profiles online, guys around my age 40+ are after guys younger than them and the younger guys want guys their own age.
      How are these 40+ guys getting laid???

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • QuintoLover
      QuintoLover

      @DistingueTraces: That teacher comment sounds predatorily to me.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Captain Obvious
      Captain Obvious

      Everyone already knows how young is too young and when age stops mattering. Some are just pathetic enough to go for little boys because they are chasing what they used to have and have to make up a million reasons for why it’s ok. I really don’t care anymore, they’re the ones looking dumb… And desperate. No idea why any grown man would want to bank on a child staying with him into old age when another little boy with abs for days will come along as he[the former boy toy] approaches 30 and can still pull one.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Captain Obvious
      Captain Obvious

      @BritAus: Most of them pay for it. There are a lot of little whores in cities. Others pray on boys in closeted areas where these kids don’t have many chances to be with another man so they’re desperate, but that’s becoming less of an issue so trolls run low on fresh meat. They’re also not above blackmail.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • straightlyslanted
      straightlyslanted

      My approach is totallydifferent. I’m more on the straight thinking side. I was brought up in redneck territory so I was taught to think like a redneck. While I never was homophobic, I encountered many straight dudes that loved older dudes for oral and anal sex(many were 18). So I thought that was sexy. So Ithink as if Im one of them. So if I’m top I like older dudes (over45). But if I want to be with one of my “straight” friends, then I could beflexible if they are 18-30. I am 65 and a bodybuilder. I don’t feel ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHEN I WAS 18. I always check first by asking questions on whether a person is 18 for sure. For example, Iask them if they graduated from high school or are in college. How young is too young–depends on each state. IF and only if a state allows Id go 16.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @BritAus: Sadly it isn’t just about getting laid. I am 54 and have many lonely friends my age because they want 20 somethings. I’ll be honest, there is a hot little man in Buffalo, NY that I have been chatting with, he is 27 ginger and hot. I know what he wants, a ticket to California, a home and someone to get him on his feet. In exchange I get to have sex with him. I have a BF that is 49 and hot, so that isn’t going to happen, and even if I didn’t. I have self-respect, I am not going to be used or use someone. Sadly, I don’t understand our community, with the suicides of Arpad Miklos, Wilfred Knight, Roman Ragazzi, all beautiful men past their prime at 40. I have friends in their 40′s who don’t wanna live past 50. Jesus Christ, this is the life right?

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • QuintoLover
      QuintoLover

      @sangsue: That is NOT true. My cousin is 21 and she’s dating a 34 year old high school principal (no, he wasn’t HER school’s principal). It took a while for her mom, my family, and her friends to be okay with it and it took even longer for his friends and even himself to understand what was happening. They’ve been together for nearly two years now and are happy and have plenty in common but there is still taboo when it comes to age differences all over.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • newecreator
      newecreator

      I guess it’s not the guys in question, it’s what the surrounding society thinks of them is.

      Apr 23, 2014 at 11:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faggot
      Faggot

      @Yahoo Thom: “Sadly, I don’t understand our community, with the suicides of Arpad Miklos, Wilfred Knight, Roman Ragazzi…”

      Is YOUR community the porn industry?

      Apr 24, 2014 at 12:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DonW
      DonW

      @Throbert McGee: Amen about an older man’s moral responsibilities (remember those, guys?) when having sex with someone younger. Dan Savage has a clever take on sexual ethics: the “campsite rule,” i.e.: leave your partner in better shape than you found him. In particular, I try to educate younger guys about safer sex — they can be awfully cavalier about it compared to us oldsters who remember how truly frightening AIDS was back in the day.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 12:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Faggot: The are part of our community, as are Lesbians, Trangendered, and Bi-sexuals…Community is an inclusive not exclusive term

      Apr 24, 2014 at 12:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @BritAus: If were talking big differences then their inbox is going to be sitting empty most days and that’s probably fine for most. They’re looking for that once in a blue moon opportunity. Yeah, I see that allot and I’ve never understood it myself. They’d rather wait and wait instead of guys that are more appropriate.

      However, you can use trump cards to get the young guys attention like a carrot on a stick. Such as…advertising having a big dick, generous, or having lots of party supplies. If you have 2 or 3 or these items your inbox will full of young hotties looking for your company all night :)

      Apr 24, 2014 at 12:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @Yahoo Thom: Honestly that’s exactly what I suspect. Exclusively chasing after the kind of guys who you can’t have much in common with has to be extremely lonely. I’m not talking about here and there but the ones who just can’t relate to guys their own age. Thank god I’m not into the twinks. It does make me sad though because I see it so much. Bunch of grown ass men with a peter pan complex.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 12:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bee Gaga
      Bee Gaga

      I just turned 19 so for me anywhere from 16-27 is my age range. When I become a GROWN person, I’d say about 17-18 is where you start to creep to low, but they are ok. Now, when I’m like older than 29 then I, personally, wouldn’t want someone younger than maybe 25 or so.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 12:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Stache99: Amazing hot party supplies will shave off the years….Here little boy want some candy? PERVY

      Apr 24, 2014 at 1:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Stache99: Not growing up or wanting to growing old gracefully is a LONEY ROAD!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 1:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pix
      Pix

      As a hard and fast rule age of consent should be age of majority. I believe those who want the age of consent to be below adulthood don’t respect the kids’ ability to make decisions for him or herself but want to escape any legal responsibility for taking advantage of their stupidity and impulsiveness they believe the kids have (otherwise they’d push for them to have the full rights of adulthood–including ability to vote, sign contracts, join the military, carry a gun the same as any adult, etc–rather than just available sexually to adults which the vast majority would simply want to exploit). And being kids who can consent there’s automatically a power disparity even if the kid is unusually mature and the adult interested unusually honorable.

      That said, if s/he gets emancipated early (proving one’s right to be considered an adult in court before the age of majority) then that would include the right to consent to other adults as an adult in my book and I wouldn’t be particularly bothered about it.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      For me personally I’ve always felt that for serious relationships the following formula is a good guideline:

      Age of the elder party divided by two, plus seven.
      (Age/2) + 7.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve318
      Steve318

      Let’s start with an arbitrary age of consent at 16 (driver’s license age in most states.) Now what if two boys, 6 months apart in age, begin having consensual sex at puberty, around age 12. What do you call that? What if one boy is 12 and the other is 13 or 14? Now what happens when the older boy turns 16, and the younger is 15, 14 or even 13? Does the older boy become a pedophile? Does he now have to wait until his consensual partner turns 16? Should there be an arbitrary maximum number of years between an older boy and a younger boy. How many: 1, 2, 3? At what age is sex consensual? What determines consensual and what is the line between consent and coerced? Since pregnancy is not an issue, do we have a different standard for homosexual sex? The state has the right to regulate sexual activity of children. But when a child becomes an adolescent (after puberty) should the regulation be different? What happens when the older boy turns 18 and is officially an adult? Does he then have to stop having sex with his consensual partner he has had since puberty? All these questions have no good answer. But they have sensible ones. Arbitrary age lines—16 for driving; 18 for voting—are necessary for order in society, but what arbitrary line do we set for sex? Since you asked, I suggest that boys (and girls) in same sex relationships can legally mess around at age 12, and can legally mess around with anyone who is up to 4 years older. An 18 year old couldn’t have sex with anyone younger than 14 legally. As for older men…how young is too young? That’s a matter of taste. But starting at age 22, you need to be doing it only with adults.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 6:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rextrek
      rextrek

      when i was 16,17 in 1976..I always liked Older guys….in thier 20′s/30′s…..now that Im 53, I wouldnt go below 25 and over 70…basically you want someone to be able to hold a conversation….

      Apr 24, 2014 at 8:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tackle
      Tackle

      Some of these guys on here are sick & disgusting! Pervs! They know damn well that if they had a 15, 16,17 yr-old, they would not like the idea of them being fu@ked by someone 25, 30,40 or 50. Yet MANY on here are saying that should be the case. That the age of consent should be lower. For what? Just for their own gratifications. They are not looking out for the well being of the child. Yes CHILD… Just their own selfish twisted sexual satisfaction which will include, not wearing a condom. A 15,16,17 yr-old do not need to have sex with someone old enough to be their father. They can have sex with others their own age. Stop making excuses that you can teach them something. When you are more likely to give them a disease. Go fu@k your mother!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 9:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pibo
      pibo

      same as you rextrek…for this part:

      rextrek
      (when i was 16,17 in 1976..I always liked Older guys….in their 20?s/30?s…..now that Im 53…)

      I think now 35 to 58…

      Apr 24, 2014 at 9:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • pibo
      pibo

      @rextrek: where are you from rextrek?

      Apr 24, 2014 at 9:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dvlaries
      dvlaries

      I’m 60; if they weren’t even in grade school by the time of Apollo 11, they’re too young for me.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 9:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Yahoo Thom: Talk about casting judgements on others. I haven’t read anything as judgmental as your post since I last read an opinion on gay marriage by right-wing, conservative religious groups. Yes, we all know pedophilia is “wrong” and against the law. From this discussion, it appears that the group’s thinking on age of of consent ranges from 16-18. But the law, at least here in California, says 18 is the age of consent, therefore, so be it. In speaking about those who engage in gay pedophilia, you assert that it paints the entire gay community in a bad light. I disagree and note that str8 pedophilia doesn’t seem to paint that population in a blanket of bad light. The str8 pedophilia/porn market is enormous globally. Yet the average str8 doesn’t wear that monkey on their back and neither should the gay community. Individuals who engage in pedophilia are simply that, individuals. I don’t recall anybody electing pedophiles as representatives of the gay community.

      But your post goes far beyond speaking to pedophilia. You characterize gay May/December relationships as fundamentally flawed by stating that they are “embarrassing and pathetic”. You further state that guys engaged in, or somehow involved in, these relationship need to “grow up”. This is a heap of judgment that isn’t call for. Do you know the particulars of every May/December relationship out there? Or are you going by your preconceived ideas of what these relationships are like (i.e.- the Brian Singers of the world). I have news for you, there are plenty of healthy relationships out there between guys in which there is a significant age difference. Yes, the exploitive relationships may be a portion of these types of relationships, but there *are* lots of healthy ones out there too. Yet, you want to paint them all with the same brush. I have 3 friends who all are in their mid-40′s and are involved with 19-20 yr. old partners. All 3 of these relationships are as healthy as conventional age-range relationships I’ve witnessed. In these 3 relationships, all of the younger guys are very mature for their age and can relate to the maturity level of a mid-40 yr. old. Comments like yours only serve to attempt to stigmatize many who don’t fall under the umbrella of your preconceived notions.

      Lastly, in the exploitive relationships, many times the younger guy is exploiting the situation to the same extent as the older guy. How else do the young ones get their new cars, new clothes, trips to sexy locations, etc. Wiggle a little ass and see what presents daddy comes home with. Yes there may be exploitation going on in some relationships, but don’t get it twisted about who may be exploiting who.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 10:41 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotboyvb81
      hotboyvb81

      @Billy Budd: I wouldn’t want a mentor or a student- I’d want an equal!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 10:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Off_Axis
      Off_Axis

      Too young (for me) is when the difference between my age and theirs exceeds their years in life.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 11:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @hotboyvb81: Well, you should do what you prefer. I believe in that. But don’t try to force your lifestyle into others when the others’ lifestyle is entirely legal.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 11:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • drivendervish
      drivendervish

      I wouldn’t begin a relationship with a man who is more than 5 years younger than myself. But if we are talking about a brief fling or a hot summer evening than any boy that will have me and is legal is getting plowed!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 11:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @NumberOne69: That is so not healthy. So in your words, you “shake your ass” every now and then for me and daddy will buy you a car or something real special. What you describe is not a real relationship.

      The usual excuses..”but their so mature”. “He makes me feel young again”. There’s a world of difference between a barely legal and a guy of mature years and it usually comes down to one paying for the other to stay with him.

      I know people who are in these kind of relationships and I’ve seen the hoops they have to go through to explain them around people. This is my son or the kid being embarrassed and not wanting to be seen by his friends.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 11:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @NumberOne69: One more thing. The only thing Yahoo Thom said or agreed with others about was that older adults should stay away from teenagers and a bit about some of the problems in the gay community in general. Nothing he said isn’t a fact that most don’t already know. Not sure why that got you all hot under the collar.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 12:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Stache99: If you reread my post you will find that I DID NOT say the “shake your ass” relationships were “real” relationships. To the contrary, I said they are part of exploitive relationships. But I used the “shake your ass” example to show that that is how the younger ones in these relationships can be the ones exploiting the situation every bit as much as everyone seems to assume the older guy is exploiting the younger one in these types of relationships. I believe that in most of these exploitive relationships both parties end up exploiting each other, not just the older guys exploiting the younger guys.

      Again, if you reread my post, you will find that I was very explicit on why I took issue with Yahoo Tom’s original comments. He labeled relationships where there is a significant age difference as “embarrassing and pathetic” and said older guys in these relationships need to “grow up”, as if all older guys in May/December relationships are inherently immature. I pointed out that Yahoo Tom’s comments are patently judgmental and that he paints all of these types of relationships with the same brush, which isn’t fair as each relationship is fundamentally unique, just like the people in them.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 1:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @NumberOne69: You are damn right I am “JUDGEMENTAL”. We are in the Middle of fighting for LGBT rights, equality and marriage all over this Country. We have a zealous right wing that are trying to STOP those rights. We are not equal to “STRAIGHT” people “LEGALLY”. Many of our brothers and sister in other States are fighting to make their lives better. In California, “sexual orientation” is build into the equality guarantee’s of the State Constitution. That is not so in Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Texas, etc. It is not always about us or me. Sometimes “WE” the collective community has to put it’s best foot forward. Having sex with under-age men it a goal of “PEDOPHILES” not of the LGBT Community. When I was in my 20′s it was during the 80′s, during the AIDS crisis, I lost many older MENTORS, 20 in total that Mentored me and brought me into the community without expecting sex. I appreciated that. You know and I know, that the May/December romance that works is an anomaly in both straight and gay relationships and is usually based on a barter system. The older man provides financial security and wealth, the young women or man provides sex. I would like my equal a dual income and healthy conversation with my partner. If he falls on hard times, then of course I love him and will take care of him. If I make more than him but he stimulates me intellectually then we will make it work. But if the only thing I have for him is LUST, then that is unfair to him…

      Apr 24, 2014 at 1:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @NumberOne69: And if you read many of the posts, advocating for May/December, they are advocating at the margins. 16-18, by 50 year olds. These are frustrated PEDOPHILES, not healthy adults looking for healthy relationships!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 1:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @NumberOne69: One more thing, “PEDOPHILIA” is illegal. You know and I know some gay male professionals whose lives have been ruined by dabbling in under-age sex. Gay Men should be aware that ending up on the “sexual predator” list is Nationwide, there will be no place to run. Drug abuse, which run rampant in our Community is fixable, financial ruin is fixable….being labeled a “sexual predator” is not. So I will not advocate that 16 is OK, because the law says it is not and they mean it! These are people’s kids and parents can be quite aggressive when protecting them!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 2:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      There is a long, milenar tradition of fully adult men courting younger adult men (18+ yo), that goes back to ancient times. Oscar Wilde, for example, fiercely advocated this kind of relationship. The older man brings his experience, knowledge, dedication and culture to the young man. The young man retributes with his beauty, the freshness of youth and his eargerness to love. This kind of relationship CAN be profound and positive to both parties. It can be a noble, beautiful thing.

      I recommend you to read the classic book “The Last of The Wine” by Mary Renault, if you still think that this kind of relationship is reprehensible. It is not. And it is not illegal.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 2:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @Billy Budd: These noble relationships you speak of are mostly fantasy or the fantasy of the older ones wanting it. I’ve seen lots of them and their not quite as beautiful as you just described.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 2:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      Correction: millennial, not milenar

      Apr 24, 2014 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @Stache99: LOL oh Stache99…YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE RIGHT!!!!!!! I did it once, a very famous Beverly Hills Architect. He was hot, wanted to take me to Tahiti, buy me a Porsche. I was 28 he was 45. I had a College Degree and a career that was just taking off. He exerted a lot of control for his carrots, more than I was willing to give up. So I ended it. It is never like the older man promises! The strings are many. I mean the leashes are many. A young man can get experience, knowledge, and culture without exchanging control and his body. Find an older man that truly wants to mentor for nothing! There are older guys out there that will.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 2:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @Yahoo Thom: It is not na Exchange of control and body. It is LOVE. Have you never loved anyone?

      Apr 24, 2014 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      That sounds exactly like it is coming from NAMBLA. Yes I have had “TWO” great loves in my life…both were my age. I was 23 he was 23 when we met. The second was 45 I was 46. I was talking to my best friend last night she has a son that is 19. We were discussing this article and mused about her 19 year old son with me 54. We guffawed! We tried to find “ONE” thing we had in common other than sex, we came up with her. He loves his Mom and I love her as my Best Friend. GEEZ!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @Yahoo Thom: I beg you to read the book that I suggested. You need to learn a few things.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 3:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      This is NOT ancient Greece, these are not troops of Alexander the Great. This is the 21st Century and under-age is under-age. Love or no Love

      Apr 24, 2014 at 3:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @Yahoo Thom: Ha. I was thinking the same thing. He pulled that crap right off the Nambla website. Find those fantasy relationships where ALL they want is to love and to mentor and heck I’ll even get on board with it. Like I said though. Sure not the one’e I’ve ever seen and I’ve seen plenty.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 3:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @Yahoo Thom: I am not talking about underage people. I am talking about young adults. You are distorting what I said on purpose. Shame on you.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 3:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      Look Billy Budd, I am 54, lived through 80′s. Most likely “WE” would never date, because, I would not be as impressionable as you like them. There are some VERY HOT MEN in their 40′s and 50′s…some even make it to 60 and are still very HOT. They are experienced, interesting to talk too, opinionated, articulate and very adult. They also have nice asses and big dicks. Everyone knows the “GAME” Billy Budd, I need say no more.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 3:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • barkomatic
      barkomatic

      I love all these complex formulas for how to calculate the age of a guy you are allowed to date. Frankly, if they are of legal consent its nobody’s business.

      This line is also hilarious from the article:

      “the entire situation has brought to light some thorny issues surrounding the fascination with youth in the gay community.”

      Uh, anyone want to guess what that “fascination” is? Let’s face it, the majority of really hot guys are by far between 18 and 35. There are exceptions of course — where a few guys older than that are hot but the “fascination” is nothing more than the beauty of youth. It’s nature.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @barkomatic: It’s shallow! Something the guys in our community are always being accused of by our Sister’s the LESBIANS, who don’t seem to have this as a major issue, and seem to be able to marry and have LTR. Yes some of the guys do, but look around most of us don’t. This is quite a life-style “WE” guys have built for ourselves, The GAY LOGAN’S RUN LOL

      Apr 24, 2014 at 4:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Yahoo Thom: Yahoo Tom! Don’t get it twisted! I NEVER remotely stated that pedophilia was acceptable, nor did I state that it should be so. To the contrary, I stated that everyone (well maybe more like 99.999%) agrees that pedophilia is wrong. I noted that members of this discussion group had thrown out an age range of 16-18 as what they think of as an acceptable age of consent, BUT I noted that in California (where I reside) the age of consent is 18, which I followed with the words: “so be it”. Never did I remotely imply that the age of consent here in California, or anywhere else for that matter, should be changed.

      Where I took issue with you was on 2 points:

      (1) your seeming insistence that the gay community be whitewashed as pedophiles simply because there are pedophiles within the gay community (again, a tiny fraction of the greater gay community, just like str8 pedophiles are a tiny fraction of the str8 community). The str8 community isn’t defined by it’s lowest common denominator, so to the gay community shall not be judged the same. If you want to worry about whether pedophilia or drug abuse or alcoholism is going to define the community, that is your trip. But I for one, will not be defined by the lowest common denominator.

      (2) your judgements that you cast, not on pedophiles, but on LEGAL May/December relationships. You may have the legal right to castigate that which you don’t understand, but you don’t have the moral right to do so. No more so than do right-wing conservative have moral ground to cast dispersions upon the gay community. Mind you, I’m speaking about LEGAL May/December relationships, not illegal pedophilia. Your submission that you know how each May/December relationship is motivated, operates, and carries on is ludicrous. You use anecdotal statements about these types of relationships not “lasting” or not being “real relationships”. Or, worse yet, you project your own past situation onto every May/December relationship. It didn’t work for you, therefore, of course, it can’t work for anyone else. Well, this is just plain wrong. It does work for many more than you seem to think. Are there May/December relationships that fail… absolutely! But there are a hell of a lot of “conventional” gay relationships that fail too. So does this mean don’t go where your heart leads you? In trying to examine or describe the fruitlessness of May/December relationships, you try to cram down your own definition of what a true relationship is, as if you were the arbiter of all things right & normal. Trying to define a May/December relationship in the context of how you see the world is like trying to fit a round peg into a square hole. It can’t be done, just like you can’t define a gay relationship in general in the context of a str8 relationship.

      As a community, we don’t like when str8′s make judgements about us. Yet, you make judgements (and I contend erroneous judgements) about LEGAL relationships within the gay community. In a world so devoid of Love, if a 54-yr-old and an 18-yr-old find Love, I say more power to them. It is not my, or anybody else’s, place to tell them whether or not their relationship will last or is “real” or is “true” or to call them names. It may not be the kind of relationship that you or I want, but, if it works for them… great!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      Save it…Like I said we all know what the game is. I am pointing out that the life-style “WE” have created for ourselves is not self-sustaining. It is not fulfilling and hardly working. Men will be men, but men with no morals, limits or boundaries is bound to lead to heart-ache. Judging by the suicides of gay men over 40, the model you propose is not working. Like Stache99 said, it is nothing “WE” don’t all know, I am not pointing out anything new. I simply pointed out, “The Emperor has no clothes”

      Apr 24, 2014 at 4:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Yahoo Thom:
      First, I wasn’t proposing anything. I was speaking to actualities.

      Second, just because *you* say something does not make it so. But I know the type, so I’ll give you a pass and won’t lay into your pretentious attitude.

      Third, I would hate to live in your “Emperor has no clothes” world. What would be/is the point of your existence.

      Fourth, if this “lifestyle” is not self-sustaining, why bother to fight for freedom to marry, repeal of DOMA, etc when in the end it will all crumble because it isn’t self sustaining?

      Based on your dogma, I can see why you are so jaded. Fortunately, I live in the realm of positivity and, therefore, the only limits in my life are those I place there. Btw, I, too, lived through the 80′s. So, listen sister, that moral superiority complex of yours bears no weight with me.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @NumberOne69: We all get it. You and your friends like em young. By all means though have at it. No one is stopping you from making a complete fool out of yourself. Just don’t accept that everyone is going to be on board with you and your barely legal boy toys excuse me May/December relationships as true relationships.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      Just accept that not everyone…:)

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • barkomatic
      barkomatic

      @Yahoo Thom: As gay men, we should all know by now that you can’t force yourself to be attracted to someone you are not–otherwise we’d all be straight form social pressure. Likewise, you can’t talk yourself into being sexually attracted to an older guy if you have been typically attracted to younger men.

      It’s not “immoral” to find young guys attractive — and the type of women that lesbians date is irrelevant. In regard to the theme of the article above, I’ll reiterate that if the guy is of *legal* consent then it’s nobody’s business. There are plenty of gay men attracted to older guys and that is just fine too. Thankfully, we don’t all have the same tastes.

      If the guy is an underage minor than a non-minor should NOT touch the kid obviously.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Stache99:

      I don’t know where you get your information from, but I do not “like em young”. I’m 45, happily married to a 53-yr old dentist and have never dated anyone more than 2 years younger than me. My problem is not that I “like em young” (as if that was a real problem). My problem is with the bitchy judgements thrown around by jaded queens about guys who do happen to like them young. And again for the studio audience, I’m talking about LEGAL relationships, not pedophiles. But you and your bitchmate know it all, so I’ll let you alone in your ignorance.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      I find “YOUNG” attractive also…they are hot, youth is great. I find the company of a man my age also sexy and much more satisfying. They have been through life, they have a definite view that is distinctly theirs. I can teach a young man, but they don’t make me feel young. Honestly they make me feel old. You know who makes me feel young? A man that can still teach me something, give me a new and different perspective on life, from his long life experience. But don’t come on an open forum and lead people to believe that the LGBT Community, and that is everyone in the Community, Lesbians, Gays, Bi-Sexual and Trangendered, that “WE” are going to add the “P” to that moniker! We will never be the LGBT P (Pedophile) Community.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      @NumberOne69: Like I said, “WE” all know the game, you don’t need to be JADED to see the issues our community has and are dealing with. Everyone wants to blame Michael Egan for being disingenuous about his claims. “We” know that happens, I have been to those parties, 80% of us have at one point or another. I am not JADED, I am actually quite happy, clarity is not jaded.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Yahoo Thom:

      If you weren’t so predictable, you’d be hilarious. You can’t speak to the inappropriateness of May/December relationships, because, as @barkomatic points out, it’s really none of your business, so you have to bring it back to pedophilia… as if that is the subject in question. Lest I remind you, the topic isn’t “Is pedophilia ok”. It is “how young is too young”. It is not enough for you to state a certain age is being young enough, but rather, you have to throw your snarky, smart-ass judgements on top of it all. I know, it must be tough being a tired queen; your feet must hurt in those cha cha heels.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      Oh bravo, we don’t have to suffer of the cha cha indignities from the “STRAIGHT” community so you a GAY man have to throw that our as a pejorative. Nice, I am sure all of our more effeminate men in our community just got a nice dose of self-esteem…GOOD JOB!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Yahoo Thom:

      LOL!!!!! You go right ahead and, as THEE leader of the “community”, take offense, either personally or on behalf of the community. You obviously haven’t heard the term “cha cha heels” used, as it doesn’t apply to any community or sub community. It only applies to that to whom it is directed and is a reference to one’s tired old feet. But you will put your own interpretation on it and then try to sell it as fact because, after all, you are THEE leader and you know all. BTW – the str8 people I know wouldn’t even know what a cha cha heel is, much less hurl indignities about them. BTW #2- I’ve worn cha cha heels before and I know, firsthand, how they can make your feet hurt and, thereby, make one cranky.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Yahoo Thom:

      OMG! He did it again!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yahoo Thom
      Yahoo Thom

      Now I fully understand why you LOVE young guys…I TOTALLY GET IT..wink

      Apr 24, 2014 at 5:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @NumberOne69: Wow. You sure got the gay stereotype checklist down. Real men who are past a certain age don’t call everyone they disagree with queens btw.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 6:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Yahoo Thom:

      LOL! As if liking young guys ( which I only do as friends since I’m married) is such a problem or sin or put-down. Oh my!

      Btw – after you finish knitting your sweaters, where do you sell them?

      Apr 24, 2014 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @Yahoo Thom: I’ve been to the same parties at around the same time Michael Egan was doing them. I know the people he partied with.

      Every single thing we’ve been talking about was there. Trust me there was no beauty in it like B. bud was rambling on about. Older men supplying drugs to teenagers and twinks and using them was the theme.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 6:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hotboyvb81
      hotboyvb81

      all this PC crap about being legal…think back to when you were 18…would you date yourself? I was a child at 18- and most of the teenagers I’ve seen today are even bigger children- more entitled, etc….I love how one day can relieve a conscience- is there really any difference between a 17 year old and an 18 year old?

      Apr 24, 2014 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NumberOne69
      NumberOne69

      @Stache99:

      BTW – and what age is that? I ask because I want to be educated by the conscience of he community. Heaven forbid *I* should be inappropriate, so I seek knowledge from those who know everything that is well and right.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 6:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • toberlin
      toberlin

      @Stache99:Thanks, for beeing YOU.Some comments here made me almost cry.
      The”Age of Consent”is the MINIMUM age in which a person is legally competent to consent to sexual acts.It is Law for young humans to make first sexual experiences and not about “YOU CAN F*CK 14 yo here”legally-Law.Minimum “Age of Consent”does not include in any case the ability to be mature enough to agree to prostitutional relationships.
      I`m O.K with the German Law.Homosexualty is here accepted as a normal form of Sexuality from the majority of Germans.Not just tolerated.
      In Germany the “Age of Consent” is 14.With restrictions for adults like in any other northern european country. Parents can accuse you if you are older than 21 and the minor is 15 or 16.This happen not very often but parents often threaten to do it.That mostly resolves the problem.If there is a problem.Mostly you start with people in your own age group.Bad Sex can be great!And to me it was easier to find MY beat in my own age group. I had a “things went too far too fast” situation with 14 and he was 22.I thought it is Love:).He really manipulate me to jerk him of at our second date.Not traumatic but not neccessary.It is socially accepted to date a few years above your age group with 16.With a few years I mean 25 is really old in that context.
      Some Facts:
      -Teens with lower educational attainment have earlier sex
      -On average Teenagers have the first sexual Intercourse with 16
      -Teens have later Sex than 5 years ago
      -92% use prevention at first Intercourse
      - Prevention with Condom:71% of the Girls/ 66% of the Boys

      I don´t know if “Age of Consent” at 14 would work for the USA. In Germany,Teens mostly know about the facts of live.Homeschooling is illegal .Religious Groups have much less influence. We have public health care(HIV/Abortion).So 16 is my answer.

      To the older /younger situation:Depends.A huge age gap without a huge imbalance of power is O.K. to me.(Can be creepy but O.K). I just don´t know how all these 18 years old can related to the maturity level of all those 45 olds.Do older gay men not mature in the USA?

      Apr 24, 2014 at 6:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • fleeboy57
      fleeboy57

      I do think that it is a matter of what is legal in your state. I also think that is a matter for each individual. Me I lost my virginity at 12 to a guy of 18, I am now 62 most of the guys that I am with are in the age range of 25-30. I have always gone with younger guys since I was in my 30′s they seem to be getting younger as I get older. Again it is to each individual I think.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • BritAus
      BritAus

      Thanks for the responses guys :-)

      Apr 24, 2014 at 8:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • john.k
      john.k

      Two different matters are getting entangled in this discussion – paedophilia and age gaps in relationships (btw technically paedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent youths. attraction to teenagers is ephebophilia). I’m 65 and my boyfriend is 27 – we met when I was 57 and he was 19. So we’ve been together nearly 8 years – so such relationships can work. It is not an unequal relationship. I am not rich so he is not with me for any money I have – in fact he now earns nearly as much as me. He is better educated than me as he has a PhD while I’ve a bachelor’s degree and a professional qualification. The simple fact is he is only interested in grey-haired men over 50. I thought that might change as he got older but it hasn’t yet. Anyway I this stage we love one another very much.
      All my friends and relatives, gay and straight know about him and most have met him. Most of his friends and family know about me. His mother says I make him happy so the relationship is fine with her. One friend (about age 30) said that if he was told about a 38 year age gap he might think it weird but knowing us both and seeing us together he thinks we’re fine.
      We’ve both brought benefits t one another. While he is a very bright guy anyway I think I’ve helped make him a more rounded individual. Being with him has greatly widened my circle of gay friends. So I certainly don’t see myself as a sad case. On the contrary – I’m very lucky. I have a loving boyfriend and a varied life with a wide circle of friends both gay and straight.
      So guys, be sparing in your judgements!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @john.k: Thanks.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 8:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • toberlin
      toberlin

      john.k:
      NOBODY here hates on people who LOVE eachother!

      Apr 24, 2014 at 9:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @toberlin: That’s not true. I’ve read pretty nasty comments about relationships with a large age difference. People insinuated that I was a pedophile and told me I could not have a successful relationship with a youngster.

      I call these people the Nazi Gays.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 10:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tackle
      Tackle

      @toberlin: To answer the last part of your question, ” do older gay men not mature in the US ?” There is a saying now that 50 is the new 40, and 40 is the new 30. This has to do with the physical, and advancements made in health. But on the down side, it serms as if people, here in the US, both gay& straight alike, have digressed back with the mental/ maturity level. 10-15 yrs ago you did not hear of gay men over 40 full of steroids, making it a habit of going to circuit parties, and popping all kinds of drugs. I can remember the 30yr-olds from 30 yrs ago
      ,and when my mother was 30. They were so much more mature than today’s 30 yr-olds. Who act like kids just starting college.

      Apr 24, 2014 at 10:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tackle
      Tackle

      @john.k: That’s wonderful. And happy for you that your relationship is working out. But understand that what you two have going, is an anomaly, and not the norm. The vast majority of May- Dec romances, both gay and straight, do not work out. And you say how lucky you are with a loving partner, varied life with a wide circle of friends, gay and straight. Since you volunteered info, and are so open about your life, it would be interesting to know if you two have great, mind blowing sex. I’m sure that’s important to your partner who is 27. And maybe you to at 65 ??

      Apr 24, 2014 at 10:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faggot
      Faggot

      @Tackle:

      The vast majority of gay relationships do not work out.

      Actually, the vast majority of relationships do not work out, period.

      Mind-blowing sex is ephemeral in any relationship (before it eventually ends anyway). If you’re basing a long-term relationship on the quality and or quantity of mind-blowing sex one has, then you obviously haven’t ever been in a long-term relationship.

      John.K has a good relationship with a compatible and suitable partner, period.

      Apr 25, 2014 at 12:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wollam11
      wollam11

      I’m not sure how people come to be so stridently vicious and aggressive when it comes to defending the arbitrary age of 18 as the age of Adulthood. Why 18? Is there some health reason? Psychological reason? Unless there is some science to support that arbitrary number, I think the age of consent is the age at which a man is mature enough to handle an adult relationship, as well as the responsibilities of being an adult.

      Apr 25, 2014 at 2:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • john.k
      john.k

      @Faggot: is right. At first the sex was fairly mind-blowing. Now it’s more mundane – but still satisfactory.
      My boyfriend plays for a gay soccer team. We’ve often remarked that a surprising number of the players seem to be in relationships with older guys.

      Apr 25, 2014 at 4:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tackle
      Tackle

      @Faggot: You are absolutely correct! And no I do not base a long-term relationship on the quality or quantity of great sex. I wanted to get his response. And since he says it’s more mundane – but still satisfactory, his relationship has a great chance of defying the odds,

      Apr 25, 2014 at 6:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @john.k: You should get an award to be able to keep up with such a young guy. At that age my hormones were raging and I wanted it 3 times a day. I couldn’t even imagine starting a relationship with a teenager.

      At any rate, good for you guys. I see no problem with this at all. Like I said before if it’s just love or you just want to be together with no strings then that’s great. But like tackle says it’s rare because I’ve seen it every single time being so extremely the opposite which is why I’m so skeptical.

      Apr 25, 2014 at 12:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kiltfan
      kiltfan

      When I started my first serious relationship I was illegal as the age of consent then here in the UK was 21 for gay men. I was still 19 at the time. My partner at the time was 26 when we met. I knew what I was doing then and the relationship lasted 7 years (although I was dumped for an 18yr old).

      Good on for Tom Daley and his partner, I have found him cute for ages. I’m 50 this year and if an 18 year old looked twice in my direction then lucky me.

      Apr 26, 2014 at 8:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • toberlin
      toberlin

      @Tackle: Thanks for your reply and HA!HA!to my tired english.

      Billy Budd:You defend your own ephebophilia with the “ancient Greece”- argument.Nope!I don`t want to live in a society of free citizens and slaves. A society that finds it normal that rich old free men exploit minors(12-20) for they own sexual pleasure.The minor in that society was not meant to enjoy the sex just the older/strictly top! man.The minor had recieved gift/money and education in exchange.Homosexuality among older men was prohibited and considered unacceptable. To bottom as man was a shame/unmanly.So the minors were not supposed to talk about the sex.Only Slaves were meant to be Prostitutes.You have got balls to write this on Queerty…

      Apr 26, 2014 at 9:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • toberlin
      toberlin

      Billy Budd:If you had have or will have loving relatioships you know better than me. Prostitution on a fair and respectful base is o.k.to me too.As long nobody gets harmed a lot of things are o.k to me.Just forget about the ancient greece…:)

      Apr 26, 2014 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @toberlin: OK, how about Oscar Wilde, who lived during the victorian period? He was an ephebophile too. We should take into account what people from different time periods and different societal configurations did. It helps to put into perspective what is prejudice, what should be changed, what should be kept.

      Apr 26, 2014 at 7:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • toberlin
      toberlin

      Our society has developed.
      From the Victorian Period/Imperialism to a pluralistic democratic Society.All adult people in our society have the same civil rights today. Not just the aristocratic upper-class or rich men.Children and minors have rights today and are protected from exploitation by the law.Slavery is illigal.Why I do not wonder that you are not so happy about that?

      Apr 27, 2014 at 9:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      Again, I never said anything about children. I am talking about young adults. I am totally favorable to laws protecting minors, people from slavery, and other forms of exploitation, prejudice and harm.

      The fact that ancient societies were primitive in certain aspects (militarized, mysoginistic, users of slave labor, etc.) DOES NOT MEAN that they weren’t more advanced than our modern societies in certain specific aspects. You have a blurred vision about this. Try to think more about the importance of studying history. History has a lot to teach us, and these teachings do not always represent a “don’t do it like they did” message.

      Apr 27, 2014 at 10:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      You must evolve in your way of thinking.

      Apr 27, 2014 at 10:02 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Throbert McGee
      Throbert McGee

      Billy Budd, you might want to check out the Wikipedia article about the ancient Greek concept of hubris. To a lot of modern people, hubris basically meant “Oh, look, I can weave a prettier tapestry than Athena” or “I’ve got a more awesome chariot than Apollo,” but in fact, “hubris” had a more down-to-earth meaning in Greek law — toberlin is completely correct that the Greeks (and Romans!) stigmatized men who engaged in passive anal sex. (And if you look at Greek writing and visual arts, the teenage boys in idealized homoerotic relationships weren’t expected to be anal bottoms, and they always had the right of refusal if adult men wanted to “frot” with them.) I might add that Aristophanes used the term euryproktoi (“having a wide, stretched-out rectum”) to mock passive bottoms, but not to mock gay males in general.

      P.S. Geez, the spam-filters are strict!

      Apr 27, 2014 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Throbert McGee
      Throbert McGee

      “homoerotic Elijah rentboys fellatio buggery”

      (Just testing the robo-filters.)

      Apr 27, 2014 at 4:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Throbert McGee
      Throbert McGee

      Sigh. I give up with the crazy filters. Bottom line, though, is that the author of The Importance of Being Earnest definitely wasn’t some sort of Professor Henry Higgins who sought to elevate ONE disadvantaged “Elijah Doolittle” from the gutters; he was a serial exploiter of young men.

      Apr 27, 2014 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Throbert McGee
      Throbert McGee

      Plea to moderators: Please DON’T release my experimental comments from the spam-filters if you happen to see them!

      Apr 27, 2014 at 4:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • toberlin
      toberlin

      @Billy BuddBack from the Barbecue…It would be much more funny if that topic wouldn`t be so sad.NOPE.While you were busy”chasing young adults”,I have done my graduation(Abitur) at a Humanistic Gymnasium with B in history/politics/german arts nand f*ck math(would like to trade my 7 years Latin with just 4 years bad english lessons).The topic here is younger/older relationships without a huge imbalance of power. You defend your ephebophilia with the “ancient greece” and the Victorian era . Sure,good times for you but often shit times for minors and young adults.
      Up to the beginning of last century young people were seen as a vascular that needs to be filled.And not as humans with civil rights /freewill.Today young people are protected by the Law because of all the damage older people have caused.Not because I`m Queen of the western world.

      Apr 27, 2014 at 5:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Billy Budd
      Billy Budd

      @Throbert McGee: How do you know what I did in bed with the young adults with whom I had love relationships? Also, how can you assume that I am advocating a complete imitation of Greek ideals of love? You assume too much. You are puttting words in my mouth, and I don’t like it. You are wrong.

      Apr 27, 2014 at 7:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • toberlin
      toberlin

      Billy Budd: “I like to F*ck young guys”…your words.So “he assumes that you f*ck young guys and “you don’t like that”?Nobody “is putting words in your mouth” Try to think about the importance of studying YOUR comment History.You must evolve in your way of thinking …;)

      Apr 28, 2014 at 6:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Throbert McGee
      Throbert McGee

      @toberlin: By the way, toberlin, you’re REALLY COOL. And I’m impressed by the SEVEN years of Latin!?! I took four years in high school and mostly got A’s — except for the third year when we read Cicero, because I thought he was rather boring.

       

      But the next year I got motivated again by Vergil’s Aeneid because of all the bloodshed, drama, and mythology — ESPECIALLY the part where the goddess Diana sends one of her trusty maidservants to put an arrow through the head of the dude who’d slain Camilla, a mortal girl favored by Diana. Like a lot of bullied gay teenage boys, I was compulsively drawn to girls who knew how to kick ass. Then I joined a karate club for four years in college, and realized that I could kick ass myself, so I didn’t have to rely QUITE so much on bionic f*g-hags for protection… though of course I still admire strong women who’ve learned how to defend themselves physically with basic training in hand-to-hand combat — and I think this is an essential but neglected life-skill for young gay men, too.

       

      (I do NOT understand, however, why so many gay men think that brittle Hollywood divas are necessarily “strong women” just because they have brassy singing voices and managed to “survive” a bad marriage and/or self-induced drug dependency without literally dropping dead or going TOO insane. Lots and lots of non-famous women have endured much worse in far more classy and respectable ways, because they possessed genuine strength of character.)

      Apr 28, 2014 at 7:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faggot
      Faggot

      Secundus felator rarus

      Apr 29, 2014 at 5:11 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Faggot
      Faggot

      Christopher Isherwood was the celebrated middle-aged English author of Goodbye to Berlin when he met the Californian teenager Don Bachardy on a Santa Monica beach in 1952. Defying convention, the two created an enduring relationship out of that initial spark—living as an openly gay couple for more than three decades in the closeted world of Hollywood. The Animals is the testimony in letters to their extraordinary partnership, which lasted until Isherwood’s death in 1986—despite a thirty-year age gap, affairs, jealousies, the pressures of literary fame, and the disdain of twentieth-century America for love between two men. In romantic letters to each other, they invented the private world of the Animals. Chris was Dobbin, a stubborn old workhorse; Don was a rash, spirited white kitten named Kitty. The ability to create a world, a safe and separate milieu, was a great talent of Isherwood’s—and a necessary one as a gay man in mid-twentieth-century America. But Isherwood knew how to spread hay around his stable and attract beauty. He drew Bachardy into his semisecret realm and together they invented a place for their love to thrive. Bold, transgressive, and playful, The Animals shows us the devotion between two creative spirits in tenderness and storms.

      Please join us on Wednesday, May 14th at 7pm in the Wachenheim Trustee Room of the New York Public Library’s Stephen A. Schwarzman Building as Don Bachardy reads from and discusses The Animals with Aaron Hicklin, editor-in-chief of Out magazine.

      Register online at: http://www.eventbrite.com/e/the-animals-love-letters-between-christopher-isherwood-and-don-bachardy-tickets-11446373411?aff=eorg

      Apr 30, 2014 at 11:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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