If there were ever sounder words of advice for New Jersey’s state senators, who will vote on gay marriage legislation tomorrow, it is this: Learn from New York. Because while most are, at best, cautiously optimistic the the Jersey legislature will pass the bill, merely bringing it to a floor vote will have the effect of total transparency — knowing exactly where each lawmaker stands on gay rights. Or, more accurately, where each stands on eliminating discrimination. That’s the hard lesson being learned by New York’s Democratic senators, who bungled the marriage vote, and those who voted “no” now facing the wrath, and financial fury, of gay activists and supporters. Both Sens. Carl Kruger and Hiram Monserrate, among others, are facing public humiliation over their votes, and guarantees there will be hell to pay come election time.
So with Senate President Richard Codey (pictured, right) agreeing to give the marriage bill an up-or-down tomorrow, New Jersey’s Democratic senators (of which there are 23, to 17 Republicans) have a chance to not make the same mistake.
Because while some, like the Star-Ledger, claim that Garden State Equality’s strategy of “threatening wavering Democrats and sending protestors to their home” actually “went overboard,” the only real way to effect “yes” votes, aside from appealing to lawmakers’ sense of moral right, is to issue ultimatums on cash money.
We need 21 votes tomorrow in the Senate to approve the bill. And it’s only then that State Assembly Speaker Joseph Roberts (pictured, left) has promised to act before the legislative session ends Monday, and get the bill to Gov. Jon Corzine (pictured, center) desk before he leaves office Jan. 19.
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Because after that, Republican Chris Christie takes office, and it’ll be even more appealing to use that time to oust anti-gay Democratic lawmakers.
(Photo via Life)
Mike L
Those bitches better do whats good for them.
Brian NJ
The Democrats have much more to fear from the loss of gay supporters, than the loss of people angry about gay marriage, who never cast a single vote for a Democrat in their life anyway.
Robert, NYC
If it doesn’t pass, we can take comfort that the more progressive Portugal is expected to pass marriage equality this week and not even that evil bitch Maggy Gallagher and the Michael Lettermans of this world can do a thing about it. We’re so damn backward in this country, hardly the progressive leader we pretend to be in the world, while seven others, soon to be eight with Portugal on board, are light years ahead of us.
Lukas P.
It’s a dollar a dance!
Politicians need to learn, & we need to teach them that the gays can have a long memory and short fuses. NY Senators who said nice things and took our money turned their back on us, and now they’re suffering the consequences. Will it play in Jersey?
Until we teach this lesson across the country—to people running for and holding local/state/nat’l offices—we’re just shills, dupes, patsies and suckers. Screw with us, and we’ll dance with somebody else. Forget us, and we’ll stop trying to overlook your weak spots.
hyhybt
Another article I read this afternoon said there were 22 and 17; which is it, and which side is (was) the missing senator on?
AndrewW
It won’t pass.
Shortly after that everyone will be angry about “those Democratic Senators,” just like New York. They will vow to replace them in the next election and there will be other warnings (such as the one from Lukas, above) about retribution.
The fact is we cannot WIN until we do the hard work of changing minds. Once that is done we would own the politicians.
As a community we continue to waste hundreds of millions on a non-existent “political solution.” We will be equal when other people believe we are. That’s our job, not the Democrats or Gay Inc. or anything else.
We will not achieve full equality until we create it. Talk to friends, neighbors and even strangers. Get them to understand that equality is a basic human principle – regardless of beliefs. You will be surprised that 2 out of 3 will agree with you. When two-thirds of America understands us and supports equality, politicians will fall in line.
schlukitz
>i>You will be surprised that 2 out of 3 will agree with you.
Oh, puleeeeze. We’ve heard this “changing hearts and minds, one at a time” mantra being preached on these threads, ad nauseum.
Sure. The homophobes will agree with you to your face. Until that is, they are in the privacy of the voting booth when they vote to take your rights away, behind your back!
Homophobes are like tigers and zebras. They don’t change their spots and stripes, no matter how much you “talk” to them.
And furthermore…can we please move away from this idiotic and unfounded notion that the civil rights of minority groups should be put up to a vote?
All comments like yours do, is support that travesty.
Joe Mustich, JP
It’s time New Jersey!
Onward to equality, Joe Mustich, Justice of the Peace,
Washington, Connecticut, USA.
If not, then you can always come to CT to wed.
AndrewW
@ Schlukitz:
You should do some research. Start with Gallup.
Only one-out-of-three people are homophobic. The other tow-out-of-three need to be enrolled in our equality.
Don’t be afraid. The majority of people will stand with us.
scott ny'er
won’t chris christie just veto this anyway?
schlukitz
No. 9 · AndrewW
Don’t be afraid. The majority of people will stand with us.
Sure they will. Just like they did in California, New Hampshire, New York State and most likely, New Jersey.
naghanenu
Frankly..i hope it does.
Yes it looks unlikely but its a New Year and i hope for an optimistic beginning for gay rights.
Let us pray people
AndrewW
@ Schlukitz:
Only California was a “popular vote,” or the “people.” CA was poorly played. We could have and should have won, but just like Maine, we didn’t get out the vote. Conservative religious people won. When you analyze the data, only about one-third of those that consider themselves “religious” are the conservative type. They “turnout” at a 2:1 ratio. We must get the other two-thirds willing to make equality important enough to vote. We didn’t do that in CA and Maine.
Your other references were politicians, not the people.
There is NO “political solution” for our equality. There must be a people solution. Until we enroll our fellow citizens in our equality we will continue to lose.
Gay Inc. has NO direct effort to change public opinion. As a “movement,” we are doing nothing, too. That’s the problem.
Until we realize that our equality must be created by us, we’ll lose. It requires our involvement. There are 20 million of “us” and we need to be engaged in the movement.
We’ve wasted 40 years on the false hope of a political solution – it will not happen until we talk to our friends, neighbors and even strangers.
2010 is a lot like 1993, Bill Clinton’s second year in office, a time when we all realized “the man from Hope” wasn’t going to deliver on promises to LGBT people. Obama provided the same false hope. Gayja-vu.
We will only be equal when people believe we are. People, not politicians.
schlukitz
No. 13 · AndrewW
We will only be equal when people believe we are. People, not politicians.
I really don’t give a damn if my neighbors with 2.5 kids think I am equal to them or not. The point is, I want my “equality as defined by law with all of the benefits that go with it and for which I have been paying all of my working life, not something based on “feel good” sentiments, that can also be taken away from me if they have a change of heart or if I shoiiud inadvertently offend them with something I do or say in the future.
There is NO “political solution” for our equality. There must be a people solution. Until we enroll our fellow citizens in our equality we will continue to lose.
Sorry. I don’t buy that. If the black community had waited until all white people believed that they were equal, Rosa Parks would still be sitting at the back of the bus, sending her kids to segregated schools and drinking from separate water fountains.
Black people did NOT win their rights from the “people”. It took a courageous government, whose job it should be to protect the people, not take their rights away as they have been doing in recent years.
I am 73 years old and I have been talking my ass off to people ever since I was a teenager who was out at the age of 15 and has been actively involved with the LGBT movement from before Stonewall. I have come to the realization that I am not going to win the hearts of the likes of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, the Pope, Jews, Muslims or any other maniacal groups that believe I am wrong, an abomination unto God, Mohammed or whomever and think that the only good faggot, is a dead faggot. These people are far too numerous, too well organized and much too willing to throw sinful amounts of cash at seeing to it that we of the LGBT community do NOT get to be equal.
You go right on begging for your acceptance, if you must. I will continue to be very vocal and vociferous whenever people like Michael Letterman and the aforementioned groups of people step on my toes and call for the elimination, not only of my civil rights, but of my right to be here on this planet.
AndrewW
@ Schlukitz:
You said: “Black people did NOT win their rights from the “people”. It took a courageous government, whose job it should be to protect the people, not take their rights away as they have been doing in recent years.”
The Civil Rights Act of 1964 DID NOT make Blacks equal. It DID NOT end racism. It was a law intended to punish discrimination – if caught. Most still discriminated, but made sure to make it about “race.” Racism continues today. The latest polls indicate that one-third of Americans are still racist. People have changed, not as a result of laws, but because they have grown and learned. It’s called understanding and it is the key to our success.
We will NEVER pass a law that will end bigotry or create equality. Equality is based on the beliefs of our fellow citizens. America is a lot different today, some 45 years later. The LGBT Community is faced with an important decision: we can either rant and rave seeking laws with faux protections OR we can enroll our fellow citizens in our equality. If we did that, we would find that two-thirds of America would stand with us.
You also said: “I have come to the realization that I am not going to win the hearts of the likes of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, the Pope, Jews, Muslims or any other maniacal groups that believe I am wrong, an abomination unto God, Mohammed or whomever and think that the only good faggot, is a dead faggot. These people are far too numerous, too well organized and much too willing to throw sinful amounts of cash at seeing to it that we of the LGBT community do NOT get to be equal.”
No, Schlukitz, that’s where you make a big (but understandable) mistake. The people you referenced above are in the one-third that will not support us. If we do our part, they will be marginalized. Like most people in the LGBT Community you have a false impression about the enemy – THEY are the minority. I don’t care if they ever change their minds. I look forward to when they simply die off, along with their bigotry.
We lost again in New Jersey. The “politicians” failed us. If members of our community in the Garden State HAD been working towards changing minds during the last few years, we could have won.
Now, the angry calls will go out to change the Pols – elect new people, more Democrats, etc., etc., BUT the same thing will happen until we do the real work – changing the minds of the people. It’s the Polls, not the Pols. Politicians are whores and they care mostly about their own survival. If we change – or demonstrate a changed public opinion – politicians will fall in line.
Finally, you said: “You go right on begging for your acceptance, if you must.”
This demonstrates your ignorance. I’m not begging and there is no reason to. I have told you that two-thirds of our fellow citizens WILL support equality and that we are NOT engaged in THAT effort. We are NOT enrolling them.
It is my intention to figure out how to do that. And, you will continue to (your words):
“I will continue to be very vocal and vociferous whenever people like Michael Letterman and the aforementioned groups of people step on my toes and call for the elimination, not only of my civil rights, but of my right to be here on this planet.”
So, you keep yelling at the bad guys – something you admit to having done for decades. I’m going to sign up the good guys. Try to figure out which one is more effective.
The world has changed Schulkitz, you can too.
Chance
Schlukitz – even if you got your ‘protective’ laws passed, they could be repealed or reversed the very next day. And it wouldn’t even require a change of heart. Just a change of politicians.
The only way to prevent backsliding on political gains is to secure the support of our friends. It’s the great, untapped majority.
Robert, NYC
Its amazing that in the seven countries that approved same-sex marriage,none of them put this to the popular vote. Instead,their governments made sure that full equality legislation passed even if it mean losing office. The root of opposition to marriage equality in this country is religion and the influence it has on the political system. It permeates the government as we see with Obama who is also opposed to but sanctions discrimination and segregation with identical rights in the form of civil unions. Unlike any other western society, nobody can run for office unless he or she wears religion on their sleeves. Its a rite of passage, nobody can run otherwise. These religious cultists may be the one third minority but they have significantly far more power and influence than the LGBT voting bloc altogether. Why do you think Maine, California, New York and New Jersey lost? Its religion that is the threat. The only people who really have the power are the politicians we elect. They too have a responsibility to persuade others, we can’t do it alone. They are the ones to educate society, not just us. If they’re not prepared to do that, then the only alternative for us is to not give them any power by not voting for them or supporting them financially. Its naive to think that persuading voters to support our rights is going to empower them to tell their representatives to pass marriage equality. Some may be sympathetic, but it when it comes to the eleventh hour in the voting booth, some will vote against us. Do any of us really believe that they’ll be out in the streets demanding our rights if they support us? I don’t think so.
Portugal is expected to get marriage equaliy any time. Did it go to the people for a vote? NO. If the religious bigots want our rights put to the vote, then we should retaliate by taking away some of their rights to give them a dose of their own hate medicine to level the field.
AndrewW
Robert NYC Said: “Its naive to think that persuading voters to support our rights is going to empower them to tell their representatives to pass marriage equality.”
It just has to show up in the polling data Robert. WE have to make that happen. Not as you’ve suggested:
“The only people who really have the power are the politicians we elect. They too have a responsibility to persuade others, we can’t do it alone. They are the ones to educate society, not just us.”
As long as we believe “politicians are going to save us,” we won’t be saved. There are 20 million LGBT is the US. Less than 1 million of us do anything regarding our equality.
We are uninspired, frustrated and tired. Until someone comes up with a “winning strategy” we will continue to lose. Until we inspire a real movement and get more people involved we will continue to lose. Until WE take responsibility for our equality we will continue to lose.
Please understand this: politicians and Gay Inc. WANT us to continue to LOSE – that keeps them in business. The “game” keeps them in business. It’s time to end the charade of “equal rights” and actually create our equality.
schlukitz
No. 18 · AndrewW
As long as we believe “politicians are going to save us,” we won’t be saved. There are 20 million LGBT is the US. Less than 1 million of us do anything regarding our equality.
You know, Andrew, at the age of 73 I and a lot of us “old-timers” are getting real sick and tired of being told, by people much younger than ourselves who think that they have all the answers and that they are the only ones who are right, that what is happening to LGBT people, not just in the USA but all over the world, is all our own god-damned fault for not doing enough.
Telling us that less than 1 million of us (you don’t quote a source for that statistic) are doing anything</i. is a bigger guilt trip than the Church is laying on us. And they lay some pretty big guilt trips on us.
As long as we believe “politicians are going to save us,” we won’t be saved.
Then it time for us to stop supporting these politicians and vote some new ones into offic.
Robert said Its amazing that in the seven countries that approved same-sex marriage,none of them put this to the popular vote.
I wish you and other LGBT people who keep blaming themselves and their own would take note of that significant fact, Andrew. Civil-rights is NOT an issue to be voted on and that is what we should be protesting. Robert is right on the money. The religious right has stolen not only our civil-rights, but our democratic form of government as well. It was exactly what we Americans feared when John Kennedy, the first Catholic to do so, ran for the office of President and our worst fears have been realized.
Until someone comes up with a “winning strategy” we will continue to lose.
And you have one? If so, I haven’t seen it in print. What I have seen, is a lot of blame and very little action coming from you.
Just sayin’.