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Who’s to Blame for Maine’s Marriage Failure?

mainemap

After yesterday’s voter-approved rape of our marriage rights in Maine, the obvious question to ask is: How’d this happen? And next: Who can we blame? It’s a natural instinct. Surely there must be someone or something out there to direct our anger, our frustration, our disgust. It’s the same thing that happened exactly one year ago in California, when Prop 8 took away the M-word from gays and lesbians. Fingers started pointing, and not in very nice places. Race and religion were blamed. So, too, was the “No On 8″ campaign, accused of misguided direction and ineffective outreach. Now here we are in Maine, wondering aloud, “WTF?”

So: WTF?

How much responsibility does Obama have?

obamascowl

An obvious candidate for our ire, President Barack Obama has publicly ignored the marriage battle in Maine. Though he is not a supporter of same-sex marriage, even on the campaign trail he said he wanted states to be able to choose whether to endorse or delete discrimination. Before the November 2008 election, he voiced — albeit quietly — his opposition to Prop 8. This letter is the evidence he’ll point to, years from now, defending his gay rights record.

But here’s what happened over the past few weeks: Obama remained painfully silent when we needed him the most. Sure, his approval ratings are lower than they once were, but Obama retains an amazing ability to rally people to the polls. Had he maintained his “fierce advocate” status and called on Maine voters to defend our rights, we might not be looking at a four-to-five point losing margin.

And yet, we’ll never know how much Obama’s voice might have helped. If he allowed Press Secretary Robert Gibbs to say something about the issue, rather than ignore it entirely, would that have changed things? What if he went so far as to star in a television ad for Protect Maine Equality? How about if he called on the DNC to back up PME in its fight?

So unimportant were our rights to the president, he supposedly didn’t even watch the returns. We like to think Obama’s stamp of approval could have moved the needle just a little bit. But we would’ve (almost) settled for him giving a damn, at least in private.

How much responsibility does Gay Inc. have?

joehrcbw

We’re told to look to organizations like the Human Rights Campaign and GLAAD to see what can be done to further gay civil rights. Except these two organizations, and their brethren, were horrifyingly silent on Maine.

Yes, there were “partners” with PME, and sure, they sent out email blasts to supporters — to raise money for their own organizations. But wait, what’s this? Our inbox shows the most recent email from HRC’s Joe Solmonese appeared on Oct. 28 — to celebrate good friend Barack Obama’s signature on the Matthew Shepard Act. There’s been nothing about Maine’s fight. Today, a single article on HRC’s homepage reads “Maine Families Denied Protections in Marriage Vote”; the organization says it “expressed profound sadness and anger at the passage of Question 1 in Maine.” Crocodile tears?

Meanwhile, neither HRC nor GLAAD, in a message from president Jarrett Barrios today, mentions Obama’s name once. HRC points out the good that did happen last night: Washington’s Referendum 71, some triumphs in local elections. But there is nothing about the Democratic National Committee, or the failures of elected officials, in either message. It’s a political correctness move — neither group wants to point out the obvious: that our officials and party leaders purposefully dropped the ball on this one.

And it leaves their supporters wondering: Seriously, where the hell were you on this one?

Did Protect Maine Equality/No On 1 not do enough?

noon1-maine

This is a very difficult question, but one that must be asked. The obvious answer is: Under the leadership of Jesse Connolly, they busted their asses as hard as possible. We know this to be true. PME’s teams on the ground worked endless nights for weeks on end, trying to prepare Maine to become the first state with voter-approved marriage rights. There was blood, sweat, and tears. People flew in from around the country to help the effort. From phone banks to door-to-door canvassing to flyers, PME seemingly did everything right. But if that’s the case, does it mean there was just no convincing enough Maine residents that our rights are worth protecting?

We hasten to believe so. So where were the cracks? On this website, we’ve faulted PME for its weak advertising campaign. One television ad after another “played nice,” showing normalized families that don’t deserve to be discriminated against, rather than painting a doomsday scenario of what will happen if Question 1 passes: voters will approve discrimination. Our criticism was panned by some readers, who claimed Mainers were different, and these soft ads were exactly what appeals to them. But maybe human instinct is universal after all. Without a dire call-to-action, what if some of our would-be supporters simply stayed home to let others fight the soft fight?

The effectiveness of PME’s advertising campaign may never be known; that’s an intangible that polling might try to gauge, but not perfectly. But its TV ads were the most public forms of outreach from the pro-marriage camp, and our fists were not raised.

Did Stand For Marriage Maine simply do a better job?

yeson1vic

They must have, right? They won, after all. With the backing of Prop 8 group the National Organization for Marriage and the support of conservative Catholics, S4MM used mostly out-of-state money to create a campaign based on fearmongering and misinformation. Again, did the ads work more than the actual message of the legislation? Maybe. But it’s hard to argue their scare tactics didn’t influence a decent portion of Maine voters into saying Yes On 1.

It’s becoming clear: NOM has bigot campaigns down to a science. And they won’t end stop with Maine.

What about the media?

tvstatic

Oh, the left-leaning mainstream media. Surely they were there to highlight what was at stake in Maine, right?

No. And it wasn’t just during last night’s returns that made it clear, when — with the notable exceptions of some CNN segments and Rachel Maddow’s show — all attention was paid to Virginia and New Jersey, and not a civil rights battle.

Imagine if Maine’s voters were deciding on interracial marriage? Or whether Catholics had the right to marry? There would be story after story, “objective” of course, but pointing out how nonsensical the issue was: Of course this nation shouldn’t endorse discrimination.

While a few Maine newspapers were covering the issue, it didn’t pop up on larger papers’s radar until the final days before the election. And even then, stories reporting on anti-gay issues were centered around Virginia.

What does this mean for California’s Prop 8 repeal? Will there be motivation to wait till 2012?

It could go either way. Advocates of waiting until 2012 might say Maine shows that we don’t have the public with us just yet. Meanwhile, 2010 repeal supporters will point out that Maine’s result is just the latest reason why we cannot wait to battle for our rights. The bigger factor, as always, is money: Donors, big and small, can be swayed either way based on Maine’s vote; it’s all in how you present your case.

What about Rhode Island? New Jersey?

Rhode Island’s gay marriage fight has always been an uphill battle, because of the Catholic Church’s influence there. You thought S4MM’s leg up from the church was a big deal? Just wait till you get into Rhode Island’s true Catholic territory, where in-state money will flow more freely. Unlike Maine, Rhode Island’s governor actively endorses discrimination. On our side, failing to learn from Maine’s mistakes will prove detrimental. Our opponents waged war with lies and less cash, and still won.

As for New Jersey, without Gov. Jon Corzine serving another term, we’re left with weeks to get a same-sex marriage bill through the legislature and on his desk. If that doesn’t happen, lawmakers will have a helluva time passing a veto-proof bill while Chris Christie is in office. And even if that happens, expect Maine redux: a petition drive to give voters a chance to decide on gay marriage.

By:           editor editor
On:           Nov 4, 2009
Tagged: , , , , , , , , , , , ,

  • 141 Comments
    • SBK
      SBK

      Full blame goes to Obama. His support could have made up the difference. Gays must no longer stand for Obama, we must no longer support him. He takes us for granted. He loves our votes and even more, our money, but he won’t spend a cent of his political capital for us. Not even for DADT which should have been repealed in January for the sake of national security! It’s time for us gays to rebel against Obama. He is the coward in chief on gay rights.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 11:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Obama made several trips to support Dem candidates in NJ and VA. Would have been nice if he made one trip to Maine in order to help peopoe currently classed as second class citizens….but I guess politics is much more important than being allowed to live life.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Just Sayin
      Just Sayin

      It’s a little of it all. And no, it’s not Obama. He could have helped, but it wouldn’t not have made a difference. But let’s not kid ourselves.

      The lesson we learned last night in Maine is pretty simple: if you want to deny the right of gay people to get married, just put it to a popular vote. Iowa, New Hampshire, Vermont, Connecticut—I believe they’d all vote it down, too, if given the opportunity. Let’s not kid ourselves…this is gay marriage. And to well over half the people in this country in late 2009, you might as well call it pig vomit.

      No minds were changed here over the course of the last five months. If the ‘No’ campaign had been tougher and the ‘Yes’ campaign had been softer, the result would’ve been the same. And that is to say: dead wrong. But we are a country that is dead wrong about a lot of things, especially on social issues. We love our comfort zones. We love the status quo. We love saying that all people are created equal, but not actually treating them equal. Things is good enough the way they is. That’s a tough nut to crack.

      To many in this state, we have just insulated ourselves against having to see two dudes in wedding dresses charge down the aisle of their local church singing, “Here Comes the Bride” and then racing to the local kindergarten to continue the gay recruiting process. (Gotta indoctrinate ‘em while they’re young, y’know—we learned that by watching organized religion.) They have just voted to avoid something icky. You can pick apart the campaign strategies and tactics seven ways to Sunday, but you’ll always come back to that fact: fifty three percent of voters didn’t vote ‘Yes.’ They voted ‘Ick.’ And it is the ‘Ick factor’ (call it the gay version of the so-called “Bradley Effect”) that confounded the number crunchers. It’s easy to overlook—but it’s very real and can be counted on to add a minimum of 3-5 points to the other team’s scoreboard.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MrBojangles
      MrBojangles

      Half the problem is this stupid ass ballot initiative process. Who elected uninformed citizens to the legislature? Why even have a legislature if you think the general populace can run the show? At the very least it should take more than 53 fucking percent to override legislation. 66% at the least.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • L.Single
      L.Single

      GLAAD does media-related advocacy. Whatever you think of them (and I think they kind of suck), their mission statement does not involve state-level campaigns.

      HRC’s primary focus is lobbying at the federal level. Again, the Maine campaign is not their forte.

      The Task Force devoted considerable resources to the campaign — and has in previous Maine ballot measures. It has been active in Maine for years trying to set the ground work for yesterday’s vote.

      Whose campaign was better? It’s interesting that you say the No campaign sucked and the Yes campaign was effective. Nate Silver says the opposite. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/11/what-happened-and-why.html I’ll take the opinion of a political blogger over a gay gossip blogger any day.

      And your Obama bashing was so predictable I was surprised it took this long for your post to go live.

      Nationwide support for same-sex marriage polls at about 30%. There are only a few states where it polls over 50%. Every time our marriage rights are put to a vote it will be an uphill battle.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Just Sayin
      Just Sayin

      Re: Obama…at the least it would have been nice for him to have people within his organization make strong statements in favor of gay marriage. But he held them back.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      On the bright side, 47% of a state with two GOP senators had no problem with the full marriage rights for gays. It was just a few years ago that the word “Marriage” sent people screaming away. It sucks the vote was lost, but two things…
      1. the trending is in our favor.
      2. Civil rights are not usually granted on a state by state vote. If that was the case there are places in the south that would still have “Whites Only” drinking fountains.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Julian Morrison
      Julian Morrison

      And if you’d lost after Obama’s help, you’d be dissing him for “interfering”. The problem is voters with fixed opinions, not a weak campaign. The take-away lesson is: rights are not subject to democracy, and they should never be put up for a vote. Fighting through the courts is the right way.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TJ
      TJ

      OK, this is why we can never get anything done. You have to stop looking for people whose actions you cannot hope to change (the President’s, or self-absorbed interest groups) and take it upon the community to get things done. Obama would NOT have made much of a difference in this race because we already lost it in a place we’ve NEVER been– f***in churches.

      We ran a great ground campaign, the No on 1 team massively outperformed the Yes on 1 campaign (and, by comparison, the No on 8 campaign as well) and it didn’t make a bit of difference. Religion is our achilles heel and they know it– the Roman Catholic diocese has a captive audience of people every Sunday and they get to use it to tell folks that gay marriage is evil. In other states is more protestant denominations, but either way, we’re NOT there. Until we find a way to combat the pervasive influence of religion on this issue we’re going to lose every time.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tom
      Tom

      I offer this prayer to my Christian friends who fight for equality…

      Lord it is night. It is night after a long day. What has been done has been done; what has not been done has not been done. Let it be. The night is dark. Let our fears of the darkness of the world and of our own lives rest in you. The night is quiet. Let the quietness of your peace enfold us, all dear to us, and all who have no peace. The night heralds the dawn. Let us look expectantly to a new day, new joys, new possibilities. In your name we pray. Amen

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • wondermann
      wondermann

      It is not Obama’s fault, it’s foolish to think so

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • bystander
      bystander

      Its the 52% who voted to reject gay marriage who is to blame. the No on 1 campaign did all they could. Sometime you just loose.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      The Catholic Church, who used to be a target of the KKK, deserves much of the blame here. All the others mentioned in the article deserve it to some degree, but it was the Romanist Cult who was in large part pulling the strings.

      We need to sue them out of existence. There needs to be economic sanctions against the Vatican and all countries where homosexuality is illegal.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matthew Rettenmund
      Matthew Rettenmund

      I wish Obama had the balls to support No On 1, but let’s not be ridiculous—”full blame” goes to him? Please. How about blaming the people responsible for this? The voters. I think No On 1 did a great job. And you know what? We’re going to win marriage within several years. That’s just the reality. We have to keep pushing, not just Obama, but everyone.

      One on-the-dark-side note, though: If a blue state won’t support us, we can’t rely on Obama to run with this issue. So forget about DOMA for years and years.

      Our best chance is going to be the Supreme Court. SCARY.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Observer1000
      Observer1000

      The American people are to blame. It is disingenious to tell an oppressed minority that they need to ask the oppressors for permission to get their rights. Until the American people realize that these marriage votes are a perversion of freedom (and religion) and unAmerican nothing will change.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHUCK IN SACO MAINE
      CHUCK IN SACO MAINE

      From someone in Maine, these are my observations: I think the get-out-the-vote push by EqualityMaine was excellent, but it was no match for the get-out-the-vote push by the opposition. In a state with a still strong (but slowly diminishing) Catholic base population, having the Catholic Church basically run the anti-equality campaign helped put yes on 1 over the top. In previous statewide voting on the anti-discrimination law, the right-wing evangelicals ran the campaign and lost (probably because Maine for the most part is neither right-wing nor Evangelical), so switching tactics this time worked for them. I agree with posters who say that the No on 1 fight was a little soft as far as advertising. Even the campaign signs plastered around the state are telling: OUR signs were pale green and white with relatively hard to read (at least from a distance) type. THEIRS were bright blue and yellow, with a very large unmistakable YES. Also, I think the “civil” part of “civil marriage” was not talked about enough (if at all). This is really a separation of church and state issue and not just about “fairness”.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 12:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mick
      Mick

      Have gay people never heard of personal responsibility, the only people who are to blame are the people that voted. Stop trying to blame other people for the actions of others!

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NJ
      Brian NJ

      Just watch how the ass-kissing “strategy” worked in New Jersey. The gays in New Jersey were so thrilled with Corzine’s actionless support that their organization STOPPED OPERATING until the election yesterday! Now they are all fired up again, under the crazy belief that gay marriage would happen in the lame duck session. “Oh! Don’t worry! it’s going to happen in the lame duck session! The lame duck session!” The duck has already flown, morons.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • K.
      K.

      Obama’s interventions in NJ and VA were unsuccessful. He was only good at mobilizing the crazy teabaggers who oppose him, not the progressive young voters who supported him. If he’d gotten more involved it would have not substantially help our cause. It’s not his fault.

      I blame the stupid stupid national equality march. so much wasted resources that could have/should have been poured into Maine.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sam
      Sam

      Given your sensational title, this was a relatively reasonable and level headed post (save for the knee-jerk Obama bashing, which is so rote for you I can’t even address it here). That said, the folks to blame are NOM, Yes on 1 and the Catholic Church. Let’s fight the real enemy (to quote Sinead O’Connor) and not engage in the circular firing squad.

      Also, New Jersey doesn’t have a “people’s veto” like Maine does. So you’re just wrong; If Corzine comes through, there WON’T be a Maine Redux there.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RichardR
      RichardR

      “Gay Inc.,” as this site likes to call national pro-gay organizations, did a lot we didn’t see, and for sure, HRC might have done more, but as another poster has written, their priority is DC lobbying, not on-the-ground work. Obama couldn’t help NJ’s Corzine and he couldn’t help VA’s Deeds. In my opinion, he couldn’t have helped in Maine.

      “to blame,” then, are the yes on 1 voters and the bigots who brought the measure to the ballot and ran the yes campaign.

      This won’t be popular, but I feel that it’s time to recognize that gay marriage is the wrong fight at the wrong time. Long range, the fight should be against any involvement in civil marriage rights by religious organizations, and a constitutional confrontation of civil rights-focused ballot initiatives. And I would love to see a constitutional challenge to tax exempt non-profits that meddle in politics.

      More immediately, the fight should be those we can win: DADT, employment rights, possibly DOMA.

      In the meantime, we do have two things on our side: 1)time, for the bigots are getting older; and justice — Dr. King’s moral arc.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robco
      robco

      The people of Maine are to blame, just as the people in California were to blame for Prop 8. The nation is still full of idiotic, religious bigots. I think the only reason R71 barely passed in Washington was because it doesn’t grant actual marriage. The US was founded by Puritans. Most of the rest of the civilized world has grown-up, the US has not. Look at the teabagger movement for Zeus’ sake. Until people stop believing in imaginary beings and start believing in themselves, we’ll have this attitude. I just wish we could have a national referendum and put freedom of religion and other civil rights up for popular vote so others can feel what it’s like to be subject to the whims of the majority (again). The Fuehrer of the Catholic Church should die soon, maybe we’ll get someone more moderate in the future.

      I’m beginning to think we need a GLBT Zionist movement. If the Jews can have their own country, why not us? We outnumber them. GLBT people are treated far worse in other parts of the world and could use a place to call home.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:39 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chip
      Chip

      I hallucinate a lot, but it seems to me that Obama may be doing a whole lot behind the scenes that we don’t know about. E.g. the stuff from the military about ending DADT. It looks as if it’s coming from the military, where, in fact, it’s a good place for it to come from. I don’t know whether he did anything very quietly behind the scene about Maine–but it still seems to me to be smart on his part to encourage the initiatives to come from those most directly involved.
      Some people call this “leading from behind”, and I’ve known situations where it works really well.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rhydderch
      Rhydderch

      I’m sure it was all due to black homophobic Mainers

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP
      CHIP

      I hate saying this, but we need to wait awhile for ballot initiatives. Not 2010, or 2012, but until 2016 maybe…

      The more times we allow the general population the chance to vote on this issue, the more times it will fail. The only state that might be in favor of gay marriage that doesn’t have it is New York, and that’s because of all the mess with the Senate and the influence of the state Conservative Party – NY 23 anyone???

      It hurts the cause and our own self-esteem when we keep on seeing ourselves lose at the ballot box.

      We need to focus on what’s attainable in the next 2 years. Repealing DADT, and working on attaining all our rights EXCEPT marriage. Meanwhile, let simple math do the trick. The older electorate will die off a bit, and the teens and pre-teens will be eligible to vote. It might be safe to say in 4-5 years, the tide will turn, more states will be 50%+1 in favor of gay marriage, and maybe even the country.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      Um, #22 is another Chip, so this Chip #24, changed my name again.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andrew
      Andrew

      Thank-you for a well written Summary and a very specific question:

      “Who’s to Blame For Maine’s Marriage Failure?”

      We are.

      If we continue to believe our salvation will come from politics – we will continue to lose. Our salvation must come from the people.

      The other side has an “army,” and we do not. They made a rallying call to their religious roots – in the 1,500 churches across the State. Those “believers” voted yesterday. Ours did not – they stayed home because apparently it wasn’t important enough or we didn’t know how to make it important enough.

      On the issue of anything LGBT people do not listen to political parties/leaders – they either listen to their hearts (and common sense) or God. God won. God was able to inspire people to vote and we weren’t.

      The tough part of that reality is that the majority of Maine residents actually do put equality before religion, but they didn’t come out to vote. That’s our challenge. We must figure out how to get our fellow citizens to make equality important enough to speak up, stand up and vote.

      Gay Inc. is not doing that. The Democratic Party is not doing that. Our Community is not doing that. So, we lose.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • No Mercy
      No Mercy

      I agree with JustSayin above: it all comes down to the “ick factor”, and allowing the general population to vote on a minority issue. Until people become comfortable with the idea of same-sex couples – through constant exposure in real-life and in the media – then nothing will change.

      In retrospect, I’m certain that blacks would still be slaves today if slavery had ever been put to a referendum. The majority of people think they’re civilized, yet show themselves over and over to be ignorant, fearful, self-serving savages. Referendums are what’s wrong here. That’s why we created governments: to help us rise above our savagery, with hopefully more thought and responsibility put into decisions which affect us all, and to protect minorities – to basically keep our savagery in check. Gay marriage is a clear issue about basic fairness. The government which allows referendum is abrogating responsibility and is to blame. Might as well have no government then.

      Perhaps a little revenge is in order now, especially in places like Maine. Gays should immediately stop supporting the bigots in any way. Make them suffer! After all, this just shows how they’re using us while keeping us in line – sounds like slavery to me. Gays should stop helping straights with issues like domestic violence (“men should be allowed to beat their wives into submission”), child welfare/education/coaching/mentoring (“we’re not breeding them after all, let them take care of their own dumb brats”), weddings (“let the bitches do their own hair, cater their own herd of oinkin’ in-laws, sew their own burlap sack wedding dresses, etc”), remodeling, interior decorating, landscaping, medical care, etc, etc. Before you do anything for a straight person again, ask them first what they think about gay marriage, then refuse to serve or help them if they disapprove.

      Boycott the bigots – make them beg for gay marriage!

      Nov 4, 2009 at 1:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • vernonvanderbilt
      vernonvanderbilt

      @No Mercy

      Now that’s an idea I can get behind. Let the fuckheads fend for themselves and see how long it is before they come begging on hands and knees, telling us they’re sorry.

      Then, we kick ‘em in the teeth. Just for fun.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ps
      ps

      I have heard a number of commentators bemoaning how this could happen “in a state like Maine.” Huh? Anyone who has ever been there for longer than the past 2 weeks can tell you that you will not find a meaner, more resentful, spiteful, provincial bunch of knuckle draggers that the good Christian inhabitants of that freezing, rock-bound house of pain (outside of Dixie, that is). Prop. 8 surprised me last year, as I had thought CA was too big and diverse for that result; this one didn’t surprise me at all. Up there, Maggie Gallagher would have been prom queen, and I guess today she is.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chance
      Chance

      If we really want to blame someone, we should all rush to the nearest mirror.

      For so long, we have been focusing all of our efforts on politicians, on court cases, on lobbyists, and on getting laws passed – no matter what the majority of people think of us. We have rinsed and repeated for decades with negligible results, and when it doesn’t go our way, we scramble around to find someone who was supposed to be our savior, or someone who should have known better or done the right thing. Not once have we stopped to consider: “Hey! Maybe we’re all focusing on the wrong goal!”

      Half of this country still believes we are wrong, because their pastors/scriptures told them so. No one has asked them to consider an alternative, or to help us. The only times we try to open people’s minds are when we’ve already been attacked – once the Prop 8s and the Prop 1s have already been placed on the ballot.

      The other half, who doesn’t think we’re wrong, haven’t been asked for help. They haven’t been given a reason to go to the polls when our equality is up for a vote. We can’t blame Obama for that. But we can blame ourselves. And we can expect more, better, and smarter action from ourselves.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @22: “I’m beginning to think we need a GLBT Zionist movement. If the Jews can have their own country, why not us? We outnumber them. GLBT people are treated far worse in other parts of the world and could use a place to call home.”

      I’d gladly support this cause. I’d probably want to live in such a country. But there are no countries or territories who would give up their land for it. The location of the modern state of Israel was not chosen arbitrarily, but based on where the ancient state was located years ago. There was never an ancient gay homeland anywhere in history. After more than 50 years of activism, the fall of the Ottoman Empire that controlled it, the Balfour Declaration and 31 years of British rule, the UN agreed to the two-state solution.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • InExile
      InExile

      President Obama was silent (AGAIN) on Maine, giving yes on 1 passive approval just like in the case of Prop 8. Sure Obama spoke out against Prop 8 but he did so very quietly, so quietly Yes on 8 used his voice in robo calls.

      Last night on Larry King, someone asked if Obama should have spoken out about Maine, Larry King said Obama is against same sex marriage so why should he speak out? As long as the media continues repeating this line we have a problem. All groups against equality will continue to use Obama’s words against us.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CHIP1218
      CHIP1218

      Hey Chuck, I did canvassing in Sacco this weekend, and I agree with much of what you said. The No on 1 signs were more timid than the Yes on 1 ones. The church seemed to be staffing the Yes booths, I saw a priest from Biddeford canvassing on the streets, but not in his frock! The people behind the No on 1 team did seem to have their shit together. The message might have been too NICE but the volunteers and the devotion they all showed were in proper focus. As a New Yorker, I would probably have gone for the jugular with the Yes campaigners.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DaveO
      DaveO

      You need look no further than the ridiculous “Protect Maine Equality” slogan, equally ridiculous to the “Equality California” crap fest here in the Golden State. “Equality” is a lovely word that inspires guilt-ridden liberals and pretty much no one else. I could give a crap about whether anyone thinks or does not think that I am “equal” to them. I want to be able to marry the person of my choice. Just say what it is we really want, “Let Gays Marry”.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Not Surprised
      Not Surprised

      As usual, Queerty says nothing about its stupid, silly, counterproductive Equality march of early October that diverted people and resources out of Maine in favor of a circuit party on the Mall. Were they to blame? Damn right they were, but Queerty will blame everyone except who’s really to blame.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bertie
      Bertie

      Vera Donovan: Sometimes you have to be a high-riding bitch to survive. Sometimes being a bitch is all a woman has to hold onto.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Forrest
      Forrest

      No more BAllot fights how many times do we have to lose in order to wake the fuck up?

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoDoubleStandards
      NoDoubleStandards

      Old bigots are to blame for Tuesday. Some of you are going to have to accept the fact that some people hate us. There is no amount of campaigning that is going to change that. We have to wait for the old idiots to die off.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Forrest
      Forrest

      Yeah maine aint Vermont many of the older locals are the meanest pigs you ever met. I spent summers there. The nice folks flee the winter

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bruno
      Bruno

      New Jersey ballot measures can only be initiated by the legislature. It stands to reason that without a huge turnaround in the makeup of the legislature, if they passed marriage equality during the lame duck session, that law would be pretty safe.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RobinNYC
      RobinNYC

      I’m actually all for another ballot fight. In New York state. And this time, we call the shots.

      Why are we always asking people to vote ‘No’ on something? We are always playing defense, instead of offense.

      Look at those ads in Maine. They were of loving, happy gay people and their supporters. They were incredibly positive. And then people were asked to vote ‘No.’ What kind of cognitive dissonance can that produce?

      Let’s get the petitions out and let’s put the proposition on the ballot on our terms. Will we lose? Probably. But who knows…maybe asking someone to vote ‘Yes’ for us instead of ‘No’ might actually make a difference.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jon
      Jon

      People seem to forget that the GLBT community don’t bring these initiatives/referendums to the ballot box. It’s always the knee-jerk reaction from the fundies, mormons and catholics. . .The
      game has become tiresome, and the only way to beat the bigots is either on a Federal level or bankrupt them.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • naghanenu
      naghanenu

      Oh please..this is utter and unacceptable bullshit..
      Obama
      Religion
      THE PEOPLE

      Who else do you want to blame? Why not blame Britney Spears or Lady Gaga for not public stunting the issue up?!!!!

      The word marriage is the problem. Look at Washington..no really. Did they use marriage? No. Did they win..Yes..hell YES!!

      80% of Americans will vote for civil unions and domestic partnerships. But the idea that marriage is a right for two men and two women..it does not compute into what churches teach, schools teach..hell even many ideals of what a normal marriage union is.

      I admit though i support gays on many issues, marriage is still hard for me to swallow so you can imagine how powerful that sense of conviction is to people who voted YES ON 1

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • AlwaysGay
      AlwaysGay

      Heterosexuals in Maine had their minds made up long before this went on the ballot. A heterosexual-only referendum that was led by heterosexual religious adherents. There was little we could do except to get all our voters to the polls and hope the heterosexual-only marriage supporters didn’t go.

      Right now we need to concentrate on New Jersey and New York. We need to get marriage for gay couples in both states by the end of the year. Contact New York State Senators Joseph Addabbo, Jr., Brian X. Foley, John J. Flanagan, Charles Fuschillo, Ruth Hassell-Thompson, Carl Kruger, Kenneth LaValle, Vincent Leibell, Hiram Monserrate, Owen H. Johnson, John Sampson and James Alesi. Contact New Jersey State Senators too.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PopSnap
      PopSnap

      Wrong, wrong, you are ALLL WRONG.

      *We* could NOT HAVE DONE ANY BETTER. The No on 1 campaign was IMMACULATE, by far one of the best, well-funded, well-worked, well-known, well-supported, and all-around great campaigns in the history of the gay rights movement.

      We did nothing wrong, and overall this is very bittersweet. How many people came out nationwide to support us? If we’d held this vote ten years ago, how many do you think would have voted against us? 81% of young people voted NO on 1. The older generations are dying.

      But, we MUST NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY REFERNDUMS. None! If NH is next, there should not even be a No campaign for that state. Because we shouldn’t have to campaign for our civil rights. No other minority right was put up for the votes of a majority, and we cannot let them think we will play their little game and even bother to fight them. We’ll loose every time until about 2015.

      the only way to win this?

      http://www.equalrightsfoundation.org/

      Give your money to them, if you want to donate to someone. THEY will win this for us, not voting No on so-and-so.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Anthony in Nashville
      Anthony in Nashville

      I’m not sure it is right to put the “blame” on anybody.

      As long as straights get to vote on gay rights, we will lose every time.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bruno
      Bruno

      @RobinNYC: New York state also only has legislature-initiated ballot measures, no initiative process. And even if we did manage to put it on the ballot there, guess what? We’ll lose, probably by the same amount as in ME & CA. NY has rural communities too.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • StopHRC.com
      StopHRC.com

      HRC endorsed Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe of Maine over their more progressive challengers. Both of them are refusing to tell us how they voted on question 1!

      Our side worked our asses off and ran a good campaign, but the advertising and website were not as good as they could have been. We let the other side fram the schools issue with fear thus playing defense the whole time instead of being strong on the offense from the start. The governor of Maine is not a strong charismatic enough supporter either, and his support was too little too late.

      We need to evaluate why we are spending millions of dollars on losing marriage campaigns as our youth are facing an epidemic of homelessness and high suicide rates.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoHomos
      NoHomos

      How about blaming yourselves for trying to push your lifestyle into mainstream America

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Forrest
      Forrest [Different person #1 using similar name]

      It’s actually fortuitous that the bill passed by Maine’s Legislature was stayed. The pain would have been even greater if couples had wed in the interim and then had the door slammed shut just like in CA. In actuality there never was any equality in Maine to “protect” to begin with.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Avatar910
      Avatar910

      Who says it’s a failure?

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Avatar910
      Avatar910

      >>Perhaps a little revenge is in order now, especially in places like Maine. Gays should immediately stop supporting the bigots in any way. Make them suffer! After all, this just shows how they’re using us while keeping us in line – sounds like slavery to me. Gays should stop helping straights with issues like domestic violence (“men should be allowed to beat their wives into submission”), child welfare/education/coaching/mentoring (“we’re not breeding them after all, let them take care of their own dumb brats”), weddings (“let the bitches do their own hair, cater their own herd of oinkin’ in-laws, sew their own burlap sack wedding dresses, etc”), remodeling, interior decorating, landscaping, medical care, etc, etc. Before you do anything for a straight person again, ask them first what they think about gay marriage, then refuse to serve or help them if they disapprove.

      Boycott the bigots – make them beg for gay marriage!<<

      Wow, it really is about foisting a lifestyle on people, isn't it. Back on the fire.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 3:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      Take of the gloves and stop playing nicey nice. The fucking christian taliban doesn’t play nice so why the hell should we?

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark
      Mark

      sorry, take “off the gloves”

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • reason
      reason

      Ill just repeat my comments from yesterday

      For all those who are constantly being sarcastic about Obama being the messiah, I am actually starting to wonder if y’all believe he is. The president hopping into some local marriage fray is not going to do a darn thing. The office of the president did not invest in Obama the power to change the social fabric of a country steeped in centuries of tradition. Stop begging for government welfare and take responsibility, roll up your sleeves and volunteer. Contact your legislators on a regular bases, and donate your hard earn money to campaigns working on equality.

      The biggest error of the democratic party is the failure to articulate that they are not your sugar daddy and the government never will be. Instead Obama put it in a round about way, OBAMA: “There will be setbacks and false starts. There are many who won’t agree with every decision or policy I make as president. And we know the government can’t solve every problem.
      But I will always be honest with you about the challenges we face. I will listen to you, especially when we disagree. And, above all, I will ask you to join in the work of remaking this nation, the only way it’s been done in America for 221 years — block by block, brick by brick, calloused hand by calloused hand.”

      Basically what he is saying is the government can’t solve your problems, all it can do is attempt to make things a little bit better. Solving the problem requires the back breaking labor and dedication of the people like its been done for 221 years. This community needs to look to itself to solve its problems not just to elected officials. The Republican party is a lot more blunt about this, Government should not do anything for the people but provide a few basic functions like but not limited to security from foreign powers, beside that you are on your own step up and pull yourself up by your own boot straps.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wild Gift
      Wild Gift

      @ #50 – How about you go fuck yourself?

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • reason
      reason

      Stop deferring the work on to one man and his few influential advisers. We are a community of 9 million to 30 million without our allies, guess who going to have a bigger impact on congress if we worked together. With the shear numbers we can literally get more work done in 5 minutes that he could if he devoted every second of an 8 year presidency to gay rights. Now imagine if we all spent 2-3 hours a week on our community, the sky is the limit. We are the workers, we can’t succeeded with out us.

      As for the realm of just doing the right thing, friend if we all did that just Americans alone the entire world would be a different place. But enough of the quixotic feelings, it’s just not the reality of the world that we live in. In this world if you try to do what is right with out planning, strategizing, maneuvering, and releasing decoys you get cut down before reaching first base. That is why Bush Jr. was baffled and thought Obama had lost his mind when he was preaching about transparency, changing Washington, coming out and just doing the right thing. It is not that simple especially in today’s political climate.

      Here is an excerpt of Obama meeting Bush at the White House as a newly elected senator.

      Bush:
      “Come over here for a second,” he said, leading me off to one side of the room.
      “You know,” he said quietly, “I hope you don’t mind me giving you a piece of advice.”
      “Not at all, Mr. President.” He nodded. “You’ve got a bright future,” he said. “Very bright. But I’ve been in this town a while and, let me tell you, it can be tough. When you get a lot of attention like you’ve been getting, people start gunnin’ for ya. And it won’t necessarily just be coming from my side, you understand. From yours, too. Everybody’ll be waiting for you to slip. Know what I mean? So watch yourself.”
      “Thanks for the advice, Mr. President.”
      “All right. I gotta get going. You know, me and you got something in common…”

      Put it in perspective, he can’t even be a good family man by taking his wife to dinner without being demonized. Trying to give equality to the gays without cover and shrewd politicking forget about it.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel
      Daniel

      Maine will have equality. Their civil rights bill adding sexual orientation was People Vetoed and then passed again, made it through the threat of a Veto, and was voted into law. The marriage equality law will be the same scenerio and neighboring New Hampshire will have marriage equality to show as an example to Mainers. Also, after a couple years older Mainers who oppose equality will have literally died off (more than the margin of this election) while younger voters will come of age to be able to vote. Time is on the side of equality in Maine, the civil rights bill and how it became law proves it.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan
      Dan

      Obama is not to blame. If he said that he supported marriage and then did not push for it then it would be a different matter.

      No on 1 campaign… From everything I hear they did a great job. The commercial I’ve seen on the net were really good.

      Who’s left? Take out Christianity and this would have passed with double digit margins.

      How do we get OUR tax free status?!?! The religionists should spend their money fighting all people, gay and straight who are tired of the christian special agenda. Once they have that battle on their hands, they might not be as concerned about gay marriage.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dontblamemeivotedforhillary
      dontblamemeivotedforhillary

      We actually could have beaten Mayor Bloomberg (waffling on Gay Marriage when not lisping at the podium!) if Barack (or even Michelle) showed up in New York on election day with a record low black turnout. Blame it on the e-e-e-economy!

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ken S
      Ken S

      Some days America– by which I mean that dreamy old image of a fair, just, open society that people flock to for comfort and freedom– really looks like a lost cause. As an outsider, today America looks fat, lazy, unintelligent, and mean-spirited. Today democracy in America looks like not such a hot idea; not while so many of the people involved– electors and electees– are ignorant, vicious herd animals.

      Maybe it’s finally time to start voting with your feet? There are a bunch of countries– most of them at par or higher than the U.S. on those quality-of-life indexes– where you can actually be treated like full citizens and human beings. Your own country’s betrayed you again and again, if you aren’t going to strike back– punch the bully in the nose, draw some blood, make him think twice about oppressing you again in the future– then strike out for greener pastures. If 10% of U.S. tax-payers and consumers said “fuck this basket-case country full of hateful wingnuts and stupid retards” and left, not only could they enjoy their rights elsewhere but they could watch from a safe distance as the wingnuts and retards implode.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      POPNSNAP: What is the phrase “from the mouths of babes…”
      I hope I am not dissin you, I know from previous posts you are in the sub-21yo group.

      To All Others: LISTEN TO WHAT THIS KID IS SAYING (how old r u anyway?)!! Everthing he said dovetails my previous post. Fuck the term “marriage” fuck these referendums. Take the civil unions option, as Popnsnap has stated, its the older scumbags who are hating on us so bad. Once they all fuck off and die (literaly!) Things will be much easier.

      Previous Thread:

      What we need to do is mimic the Washington situation across the country. To be perfectley honest I don’t give two shits about the term “marriage”. I want the exact same rights and benefits that straight couples are entitled to and enjoy. And while Rush Windbag, Hannity, et all are crowing about the “huge win” for the Repugnaticans here are some points to ponder:

      > Virginia: has been red for many years, they drifted blue in the groundswell of Obamamania last cycle. That they went red again is really nothing to crow about

      > New Jersey: Chunky Christie won. This was an anti-Corizine vote rather than a rightwing-nutbag win. NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation. Corizine spend a bizillion dollars first winning the senate seat, and then the gov. seat, he is a billionarie who seems only to try out new political toys as each cycle nears, and never really connected with the voters.

      > New York: Most telling in the 23rd district the Rep. candidate was deemed “too moderate”. supporting abortion and Gay marriage. Scarah Pallin made a special trip to endorse the consertive candidate and all the usual suspects Beck, Hannity, et all pounded the candidate until she withdrew. They all urged the repubs to vote for the “values candidate” Guess what?? He got his butt kicked and the Dems gained a seat they haven’t had for decades……….

      If the rightwing-nutbag zealots want to claim the term “marriage” let them have it. The Gay unions I have attended where the couple basically create the ceremony to reflect their own relationship have been ten times more moving, inspiring, and heartfelt than any marriage ceremony I have attended in a church or temple. The argument these rightwing-nutbag zealots use is that they don’t wish to deny us rights but object to the term “marriage” due to religious connotations. And if they are able to deny us our rights thru continued success in legiislative and ballot mearures we will face an insurmountable battle.

      The fight over the term “marriage” is a tremendous cash cow for the likes of the actual cow Maggie Gallagher and her vile ilk. They raise millions thru their campains of fear. The success of Washington is the key. If we can get everyting but a simple term “marriage” let them have it. There will be those who will argue that we are then second class citizens. If we are entitled to every right and benefit as straight couples, can create our own ceremonies that cater to our relationships, why then fight for an institution which is based on religions and cultures that spread hate towards us? Again let them have the term, give us the rights…………….

      I will gladly accept separate but equal. I WANT to be separate from these hate fulled vile zealots and their sacred “marriage”

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ousslander
      ousslander

      all of the above mentioned and me and you

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rainfish
      Rainfish

      On my Newsvine blog this morning some hater on the “YES” to bigotry side wrote to me spewing:

      “THis is exactly why this issue loses at the polls. Get over this hate nonsense. YOu leave us alone we’ll leave you alone. It has nothing to do with hate unless you are talking about yourselves. I see nothing but hate coming from that direction after an election where people vote their conscious. That’s what this is. You don’t have to hate someone to vote your conscious.

      That’s just another sick and twisted argument that simply does not work.”

      TO WHICH I REPLIED:

      Yep, sure there are a lot of bigots who will try to justify their ignorant and hateful acts of harming others by such ludicrous and dishonest assertions. In your own word: “That’s just another sick and twisted argument that simply doesn’t work.”

      You need to take a lesson from history, because you are on the losing side of it. Our side, the side of equality and justice for all (and not just for the self-styled privileged class), will win this battle. Time and History is on our side.

      Just like the former bans against interracial marriage, someday we too will have our own ruling by the US Supreme Court which will slap down all of the haters, and their local state lynch mobs, in one fell blow. No more having to beg for something that is a birthright — that is, being treated equal in all aspects of American society to which we have an equal claim as legitimate as any other American.

      I don’t wish the demise of my enemy, I just wish that they all live long enough (like the white supremacists in the 1950’s) to see their hateful domination rejected by people of true faith and conscience. That day will come sooner rather than later. Get ready for it. The genii is already out of the bottle.

      In the long run, there is really nothing you can do about it. Good has a way of winning out over evil eventually. Your side has already lost, and not just your souls, but also your hateful war against humanity and decency– of which the tens of millions of loving and compassionate men and women in the GLBT community are much better representatives than your ilk.

      ~ Bud Evans

      http://rainfish2000.blogspot.com and http://rainfish2000.newsvine.com

      Nov 4, 2009 at 4:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Forrest
      Forrest [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Our enemies will fight just as hard to take away Civil Unions and DP’s and already are. Begging for those crumbs is stupid.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 5:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      PopSnap #46 You hit the nail on the Head. Robert from NYC needs to read #46 post. This is the answer. The gay community needs to fall under one umbrella, with a mouthpiece who can stand up to Washington and cut through the legal brush.

      # 46:
      PopSnap
      Wrong, wrong, you are ALLL WRONG.
      *We* could NOT HAVE DONE ANY BETTER. The No on 1 campaign was IMMACULATE, by far one of the best, well-funded, well-worked, well-known, well-supported, and all-around great campaigns in the history of the gay rights movement.
      We did nothing wrong, and overall this is very bittersweet. How many people came out nationwide to support us? If we’d held this vote ten years ago, how many do you think would have voted against us? 81% of young people voted NO on 1. The older generations are dying.
      But, we MUST NOT PARTICIPATE IN ANY REFERNDUMS. None! If NH is next, there should not even be a No campaign for that state. Because we shouldn’t have to campaign for our civil rights. No other minority right was put up for the votes of a majority, and we cannot let them think we will play their little game and even bother to fight them. We’ll loose every time until about 2015.
      the only way to win this?
      http://www.equalrightsfoundation.org/
      Give your money to them, if you want to donate to someone. THEY will win this for us, not voting No on so-and-so.

      (It’s the only way.) Democratic Presidents can appoint fair minded Supreme Court Justices, but gays need to bug the sh*t out of Washington and support the Equal Rights Foundation, Olson and Boise, and let the Constitution work for us.

      Today was one of the lowest days I’ve had in this fight for gay rights.
      http://www.equalrightsfoundation.org/ Queerty, shine some light on this, it’s a rallying point.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Reed
      Mark Reed

      I keep telling all of you the answer is EqualityAcrossAmerica.com

      We organized the historic National Equality March and should have Marched in Maine. That would have changed the outcome.

      Get on the train to equality – hurry.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 5:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • scott
      scott

      No one’s to blame. The people are just not ready for gay marriage. But they’re close. Within a few years, these battles are going to start going our way.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 6:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dan
      Dan [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Memo to #67–Equality Across America? You gotta be kidding, right?! That organization has imploded.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 6:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      Scott,

      What do you mean by “the people are not yet ready for gay marriage”. What people? The people who aren’t going to engage in gay civil marriage in the first place? What standing do they have in this issue?

      The simple fact is that we in the gay community have been pathetic. We’ve allowed the notion of the popular vote to determine our rights. If black people had done what we’ve been doing, there wouldn’t be a Civil Rights Act today.

      We’ve basically surrendered to the notion of bigots controlling our lives.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jason
      jason

      The article makes a good point about how the media portrays this as a gay marriage issue when quite clearly it is a civil rights issue. It’s civil marriage rights that we want.

      Maybe we in the gay community need to tell the mainstream media to stop distorting our battles.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 6:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Garrett B
      Garrett B

      Full blame goes to the voters in Maine for voting for discrimination. Nobody else caused this other than the bigoted people we see everyday.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • livingInVirginia
      livingInVirginia

      Enough playing nice. We need suicide bomber taking out the churches. Let’s see how fast the other side come to the table wanting to compromise then.

      [Ed: None of that, please. Really.]

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • livingInVirginia
      livingInVirginia

      sorry – come/comes

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • vernonvanderbilt
      vernonvanderbilt

      @ LivingInVirginia

      I love the idea, but the problem is that it eliminates a valuable queer life. There has to be a better way.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      Obama hates gays…it’s official…no wonder his approval rating are slipping…

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • james p. p.
      james p. p.

      “fingerpointing”?

      really?

      it was a public vote and the votes were counted and we lost.

      who is to blame?

      THE VOTERS.

      very simple concept. there is no fingerpointing to be done, honestly. people are either for marriage equality or they are not, there are not a lot of “on the fence” votes to pander to on the subject (it’s like the damn health care reform debate – not a lot of middle ground on the topic).

      so the course of action on how to handle this BEFORE the election should have been accomplished by Gay, Inc. and mostly through education and examples. money for ads always helps.

      but the organization and blunt work of this movement is our responsibility, and we have to ALL work for it (although i would prefer it was just handed over but oh well).

      and if the numbers aren’t there, then they aren’t there.

      the answer… DON’T PUT IT TO A PUBLIC VOTE. so the course of action AFTER the vote should focus on discrimination and education and then try again in a year. (personal opinion).

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      actors who are making films in Maine should ask their producers to move their films elsewhere….

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Keith Kimmel
      Keith Kimmel

      No. 73 · livingInVirginia

      “Enough playing nice. We need suicide bomber taking out the churches. Let’s see how fast the other side come to the table wanting to compromise then.”

      I hope you are kidding. Terrorism is not the answer to anything. There are still plenty of peaceful ways to address this mess. Its not time to overthrow the government yet.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Disgusted American
      Disgusted American

      this is a great video – chk it out!

      Nov 4, 2009 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SoylentDiva
      SoylentDiva

      Look who paid to eradicate your rights http://tinyurl.com/yc695jw

      Nov 4, 2009 at 8:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alex0770
      alex0770

      Gay leadership is to blame. Their state-by-state losing strategy is a no go. It’s just to bilk gay rights advocates of every last penny fighting a lost cause. Think the Republicans and their fetus loving followers. Did Interracial Marriage become legal by a state by state popular vote??? HELL NO! I don’t blame Obama. I blame the HRC and whomever is in charge of this losing, pathetic and transparent strategy to bilk gays of every last dime – one state at a time…

      Nov 4, 2009 at 8:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Melly
      Melly

      #44 – you are 100% right. As a mainer (not the knuckle dragging brand referenced above) I think the opposition would be much more willing to cross the line if the word marriage was dropped from the discussion.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 8:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Mark Reed
      Mark Reed

      We are still in business and we are the “answer.” Jealous people are trying to stop our momentum.

      Maine would have been different if we Marched there.

      Join us for your equality. If you don’t – we all lose.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 9:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • csl
      csl

      It’s been stated here somewhere that people believe Obama “secretly” is pro gay marriage. And it’s just “too complicated”. Doesn’t that about say it all? Falling for his acting hook, line and sinker and not even believing his own words. He is N O T in support of gay marriage. Said it right on tv. Several times. Blaming churches for political suspension of disbelief?

      Jason#71 is correct but Obamaphiles are never going to go up against the media on him or any other issue. Somehow the wrong hero has snuck in.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 9:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Hope
      Hope

      “Gay leadership is to blame. Their state-by-state losing strategy is a no go. It’s just to bilk gay rights advocates of every last penny fighting a lost cause. Think the Republicans and their fetus loving followers. Did Interracial Marriage become legal by a state by state popular vote??? HELL NO! I don’t blame Obama. I blame the HRC and whomever is in charge of this losing, pathetic and transparent strategy to bilk gays of every last dime – one state at a time…”

      Your passion is admirable but you don’t know history. The Republicans and their fetus-loving followers DID erode Roe v Wade state by state. They chipped away at it with laws adding bureaucratic requirements for clinics, waiting periods for women, counseling that includes false risks of abortion. The Supreme Court upheld most of those laws in Casey and now it’s pretty easy to limit choice still further. Yes, they worked state by state. Interracial marriage also moved state by state. California’s supreme court struck down the state’s ban long before the U.S. Supreme Court decided Loving. In fact, sodomy laws followed the same pattern– overturned by state courts and repealed by legislatures– before the Court struck down the outliers in Lawrence.

      Am I condoning a state by state strategy? No. But the two examples you cite do not support your argument.

      We have to know more than the other side, people.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 9:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • James P
      James P

      I apologize in advance for how I start this, but damn! Not every heterosexual or republican is out to get you, hate you, or even mildly dislike you! As a straight republican I voted in ref 71 (yes I live in Washington) and fully and whole-heartedly believe in equal rights for everyone, be it marriage or benefits of any kind. People are people, you are no different than I because you choose to share your bed with someone else. But please, don’t make all heterosexuals out to be bad people because some are inbred hicks with nothing better to do than hate…

      Nov 4, 2009 at 9:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • sugarmamas
      sugarmamas

      So I’m just going to eat sleep and work in my Every Girl Needs A Gay Tshirt because I’m so sick of all this madness.

      http://www.everygirlneedsagay.com

      Nov 4, 2009 at 9:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nizara
      Nizara

      Don’t fear the word marriage —

      Canada has “civil marriage” because they have the smarts to realize marital rights via government has NOTHING to with churches and is a civil right.

      Don’t fear the word marriage —

      Why should gays remain 2nd class with “civil unions” ?

      Don’t fear the word marriage —

      Fear bigoted republicans and complacent democrat leaders – including our President who has the gaul to say he is a “fierce advocate” while taking our votes, money and doing NOTHING —
      they are all equally vile.

      Don’t fear the word marriage —

      Fear the your fellow gay apologists who still don’t think of themselves as worthy of equality – and allow frauds to govern and keep us stuck in apartheid.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 9:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Wilberforce
      Wilberforce

      It’s childish to blame others. Try looking at yourselves. You ask for marraige in yet another hick State. And you don’t know why we lost? Please. Maybe our next campaign should be in Tehran.
      Or try looking at the polls, just for one second. They show that people are sentimental and selfish about marraige. Get over it. But a majority support domestic partnership. That’s a huge opportunity for us. If we went for it, a few victories would give us momentum. People would have time to get used to the idea. And marraige rights would roll in like Rosanne on a gurney lubed and naked. A frightening image.
      But then the self righteous crowd couldn’t act so superior, and the victim complex set would have to stop feeling sorry for themselves, which is even more frightening. So they give us one stupid mistake after the other.
      It’s hopeless. Mainstream queers still carry a ton of baggage. As long as they control our strategy and refuse to listen to mature and educated people, the movement is going nowhere.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 9:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Nizara
      Nizara

      and you Wilberforce — are the exact pathetic, cowardly, mealymouthed worm that would cave to live the separate and unequal life. Take your hopelessness and lack of anger at our mainstream politicians who suck the teets of church orgs and go hang yourself.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Crazy Alice
      Crazy Alice

      Why dontcha go suck on a cock?
      Who dis?

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • JJ
      JJ

      Years ago I never thought it possible that 47% of any state, a state with two Republican senators would vote FOR gays to marry. It sucks rocks we lost in Maine and California, but in Washington State people voted in our favor.

      The President is one guy. It takes patience to change the way people think.

      The trend, especially among young people is in our favor.
      Civil rights wasn’t achieved overnight. My partner keeps reminding me it will take the court system to go the distance.

      If you think supporting a Republican over Obama is the answer, then you will have to prepare yourselves for an even longer fight IMO. As long as Republicans are trending the other way in their pursuit of full evangelical support, we are left to the Democratic party. We must not let the Dem party get complacent with our support. Lobby Congress. And remember those moderate Republicans who are leaving the party in droves will be looking for a home. 47% of the voting public in Maine supported us. We must build from there and move on to the courts in California, where I live.

      Also, we elected a few of our own yesterday. And Annise Parker is in a runoff in four weeks in Houston. Again, build on what we have and move forward. The fight is only beginning. We must not give up.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoDoubleStandards
      NoDoubleStandards

      It will be 5 to 10 years, but the demographics favor us. If you look at each of these votes, they are loses of razor thin margins. The right can not sustain this over the course of the next decade because the source of their wins are dying off like the Reagan Democrats did for the GOP’s governing coalition did. That’s why they are pushing so much of this now. The clock is ticking. As Bill Bennett (Mr. ‘Moral Values’) said on Jon Stewart’s show- marriage equality is inevitable. Anyone reading the numbers can see this. This is a generational battle.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoDoubleStandards
      NoDoubleStandards

      Oh – but also keep up the pressure on politicians. Anyone telling you not to keep up the pressure on Obama or any other politician is either a) an apologist or b) politically naive. No one ever gives you anything in politics that you don’t fight for.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      @ NoDoubleStandards:

      You said: “Oh – but also keep up the pressure on politicians. Anyone telling you not to keep up the pressure on Obama or any other politician is either a) an apologist or b) politically naive. No one ever gives you anything in politics that you don’t fight for.”

      The position that politicians have on LGBT persons (homosexuals) is not changeable, especially by “pressuring” them. They or their constituents have a “religious belief” that we are wrong. Until we change those beliefs – we cannot win. Arguing or “demanding” doesn’t accomplish anything.

      Politicians won’t change their minds until their constituents do. Gay Inc. has done nothing about that reality. They are simply using us, and our money. We should wake up and do something that could really effect our future. Politics is NOT the answer.

      In 29 years, after spending $300 million, HRC has only changed 7 votes regarding LGBT issues. Plus, they have never asked politicians to simply say Yes or No regarding LGBT Equality. Instead they have a meaningless “scorecard.”

      The 111th Congress has 3 gay/lesbian Members. That’s not even 1% and we make up 10% of the population. No success there, either.

      So, stop selling “politics” as some kind of solution – you have no evidence to support that claim. None.

      Stop fighting and start thinking, we have to figure out how to win our equality. 40 years has shown us we don’t really have a clue.

      And to Mark Reed from EqualityAcrossAmerica: Stop posting your silly comments – The National Equality March was a failure and your organization is in shambles… why? It has been deemed a bad idea. So, think of something else and stop promoting your failures.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Drew
      Drew

      The person to blame is the American people. In 31 out the 50 States we the people of the United States of America have rejected homosexual marriages. Never has homosexual marriage passed except through leftist who shove agendas down people’s throat. Justice has provailed. This “bullying” and shoving decadence on the American people is not going to work… we will not give up moral virtue or veer from the Truth for the sake of something that is a lifestyle choice and not an inborn trait.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      “Who’s to Blame for Maine’s Marriage Failure?”

      Democrats, especially Obama who’s made no secret of this bigoted views on same sex marraige. And GLBT folks incapable of independent thought and action who depend on the Democarats to ‘save’ us. And the cults, always the cults.

      The defeat in Maine illustrates why the right chooses to attack us on this issue. Look at the difference in the votes on SSM and state DOMAs and their smashing defeat in Michigan where the question was employment and housing discrimination.

      It also means that sooner rather than later people will begin to see that electoral politics are a crock. Those who think that we pick these fights or that part of the movement can exempt itself from these fights because marriage is a crock will isolate themselves.

      The question boils down to why homohating and its cousins racism and misogyny, which began in pre-colonial times and have lasted through the centuries are so integral to the bankrupt profit system. All these political questions can be answered by following Deep Throats advice “Follow the money. Homohating and other bigotries are maintained at all costs because the looter class reaps huge profits from their ability to pay us, minorities, women and immigrants less and less.

      And profits mightily. Since 1975, the wealthiest 1 percent have enjoyed a 232 percent hike in their income… Over the same span, the bottom 90 percent watched their income creep up by just 10 percent.

      That stark statistic is the foundation for their maintenance of bigotry in all its forms. The looter class got richer:

      by busting unions and paying lower wages (Reagan, the Bush’s, Clinton, and Obama),

      exporting union jobs and speedups (Clinton, Bush2)

      draconian cuts in welfare forcing people into low paying jobs (Clinton),

      tax cuts for the rich, NAFTA and deregulation (Reagan, the Bush’s, Clinton, and Obama)

      getting government handouts (Bush and Obama)

      and preventing the passage of meaningful anti-discrimination laws which means lower wages for ourselves and others (LBJ, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, the Bush’s, Clinton, and Obama).

      The hate crimes bill might help compile statistics but it’s far too weak to prevent hate crimes and has no provisions for the harsh punishment of cops who commit them or politicians and cult leaders who promote them. Current civil rights and anti-discrimination laws are intentionally and inherently feeble and its likely ENDA will be the same.

      We need to accomplish the following tasks before we have a chance of winning:

      Break with the twin parties of bigotry. Not by feeble threats to stop contributing or voting for some one else, but a public, final declaration that they’re the problem and we’re going to seek our own solution.

      We have to build organizations with a democratic internal life that can use mass demonstrations, including civil disobedience on a massive scale to persistently build pressure for our equality.

      Then and only then will the legislators, the bigot panderers in the White House and the courts pay attention to us. Then and only then will our potential allies in unions, minority communities and the women’s and feminist take us seriously.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 10:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • edgyguy1426
      edgyguy1426

      Wondermann is right Obama is not to blame. He actively campaigned in Virginia and N.J. and look where that got them… just to prove; the coattails aren’t as long as people thought, or hoped for. As far as making a statement after? Yeah I think a statement should be made in re: voting on minority rights. He should shame those who do, the way he did to minority parents and the way they raised their children.. but his words don’t carry that much weight anymore, and with a second term it only gets worse. You don’t make friends the more you’re in office, only enemies.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 11:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      @ Bill Perdue:

      Oh, so all we have to do is get more angry and yell a little louder?

      That is exactly what we’ve been doing for +40 years and we have nothing to show for it.

      Sorry, but I think our future must be defined by new ideas. We have a history of “losing.” Enough is enough.

      It is the people that hate us and we do nothing to change that. Anger will never end hate. We need to figure out what will, but politics hasn’t worked. Now, we’re the most recognizable political ‘lighting rod’ (replacing abortion) and we’ll continue to be exploited. Politicians will just keep promising everything and delivering nothing – they can’t until we change public opinion.

      What have we, as a community, done to change public opinion about LGBT persons lately? Nothing. That’s why we lose.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 11:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      The politics of the Democrats and the Republicans are a failure just as your strategy of having group therapy and primal scream sessions with the bigots would be a failure if we could stop giggling long enough to try it.

      The answer is to replace the politics of dependence with the politics of independence and to break to the left, embed our selves in union, recognize that electoral politics are a crock and collect allies who can put an end to all this madness once and for all.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 11:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      @ Bill Perdue:

      So, your strategy is to find “allies who can put an end to all this madness once and for all.”

      Great Plan.

      You ignore the fact that we need to change minds. This is probably due to the fact that yours is unchangeable.

      Happy hunting.

      Nov 4, 2009 at 11:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Don’t be stupid. Minds are not changed by pissant group hugs with bigots. Minds are changed by events. Big events.

      • 15 million unemployed and counting.

      • Coffins coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan and the huge numbers of civilians murdered to profit Chevron and Haliburton.

      • Sustained attacks on us by Obama and his administration.

      • A recession that wants’ to be a depression when it grows up.

      Etc.

      You certainly can abstain from the fight and sit around the campfire hugging Robertson, Obama and Dobson and humming Cumbayá. But as I said, expect more than a few giggles from the rest of us.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 12:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      Bill Perdue wrote, “‘Who’s to Blame for Maine’s Marriage Failure?’ Democrats, especially Obama who’s made no secret of this bigoted views on same sex marraige.”

      What Obama said during the campaign was that he personally believed that a marriage should be between a man and a woman, but he also opposed Proposition Eight calling it divisive. In other words, he was saying (by example) that personal beliefs should not interfere with governmental principles regarding equality.

      That’s precisely what people need to hear: if one’s personal belief is that marriage is between a man and a women, then don’t marry someone of the same sex, but don’t butt into the personal lives of others either.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 1:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jon B
      Jon B

      The reason we lost Maine had nothing to do with Obama. It had to do with the ad campaigns, and the posters. I know that sounds stupid, but I went up to Maine to campaign this week, and after seeing our posters next to theirs on lawns, I was like, “What kinda gay did they get to design this shit.” Seriously, take a look at the signs next to each other. It’s absurd. Also, I know this sounds terrible of me, we need to stop being as PC when it comes to ads. I know we gays are all about inclusivity, but we need to fucking stop that shit when it comes to advertising campaigns. First off, the Putnam family should have been a mainstay in the ads. They were featured in the first ad, and then they sort of disappeared. They are the picture perfect gay fam. Two very pretty lesbian moms and two cute teenage sons who are willing to talk up for their mothers. While we should be inclusive inside our community, ad campaigns are supposed to speak to the world that exists, not the utopia we’d like. Bears and Bull Dykes don’t sell us to the straights like NPH and the Putnams. Either way, the lovey dovey family crap clearly isn’t working. We need to start trying something else.

      Also, blame our apathy as a community (not the people of Maine though, they were anything but apathetic). The campaign had over 8000 volunteers, about 200 were from out of state from what I heard. I drove 5 hours from NY (8 on the way back) to campaign. I met two college students who drove up from Maryland. I met a bunch of people who flew in from California. Boston is less than 2 hours from Portland, and less to towns like Kennebunkport. Where was everyone? There are thousands of gays in Boston. WTF were they?

      Finally, to build on what I was saying before. Whoever chose the color for the No on 1 ads should be fired from every doing advertising again. What would you even call that color?

      Nov 5, 2009 at 3:17 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • No Wonder
      No Wonder

      We organized the historic National Equality March

      You mean the circuit party in Washington? Lotta good that did.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 3:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ericka v.
      ericka v.

      Maine voted for traditional marriage and now Catholics are being blamed for the gay loss. Obama has nothing to do with it, he is on record supporting traditional marriage.

      What is obvious is that none of you are understanding a basic point. Your message does not ring true with the majority. Blame anyone you want, guess what? You will continue losing. People are voting their conscience. You activists are labeling the very people who support YOU, Christians, as homophobes and bigots. That is so smart to demean 95% of your support. That is a real election winner allright. 31 states in a row shows how effective that is.

      You speak about others denying rights to yourselves(gay), and that is ridiculous. Everyone here has the exact same rights as any other citizen. Pretending different will not change it. Minorities, especially blacks are not at all happy with the “gay is the new black” meme. It is false, and linking the demands for sexual entitlements as a civil rights struggle to the real civil rights struggles is offensive.

      All of you can keep on labeling, demeaning and living in Wonderland, but the simple fact is the majority of people believe homosexual marriage is wrong. Forcing them to accept a contrary belief will never work. Demeaning them for it will result in less support.

      None of you bright bulbs have figured it out yet. All of you have constantly demeaned any and all Christians, and now you whine about losing, not enough Christians turned out to support your cause, Gee, I wonder why?

      Nov 5, 2009 at 4:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Schteve
      Schteve

      Now, I’m no fan of HRC, believe me, but you can’t exactly claim they were nowhere for this. Keep in mind that they were Protect Maine Equality’s second largest donor with over $267,000. It’s not like they were watching from the sidelines the ENTIRE time.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 4:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • InExile
      InExile

      #107 Ericka: Why would Christians support us when they are the people financing these ballot measures and winning them with lies that cause fear. If anyone is to blame here it is the Christians (not all) but you know the ones I am referring to.

      Our country was founded on separation of church and state but unfortunately the last 8 years has blurred the lines of separation more than ever. Religious organizations that finance these ballot measures are shaping public policy which makes them political, they should be taxed period. Our founding fathers made a clear sparation of church and state for a reason, so the “American Taliban” could not control policy like they do now.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 6:31 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NJ
      Brian NJ

      @Erica V

      Stop calling yourself a Christian, you are a conservative christian, a bigoted creature straight from Satan himself. You harmed Maine families and children with your vote, and and are as unpatriotic as your sin against your neighbors. Sleep tight! You just took health care and money right out of the mouth of babies. You can cherry pick from your bible all you want, you just treated your neighbor very very badly.

      But don’t worry, after gay people get their equality you and your conservative christian buddies will move on to they next group to hate, just as you have done all throughout your sick, evil history of using your religion for a mask to hide your hate. But we see you! Blacks, Jews, Catholics, Women — who’s next! Liberals, pornographers? Open your bible and start the cherry picking again.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 7:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Fortunately, those who speak for the religious right do not speak for all American Christians, and the Bible is not theirs alone to interpret. The same Bible that the advocates of slavery used to protect their wicked self-interests is the Bible that inspired slaves to revolt and their liberators to action. The same Bible that the predecessors of Mr. Falwell and Mr. Robertson used to keep white churches white is the source of the inspiration of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and the social reformation of the 1960’s. The same Bible that anti-feminists use to keep women silent in the churches is the Bible that preaches liberation to captives and says that in Christ there is neither male nor female, slave nor free. And the same Bible that on the basis of an archaic social code of ancient Israel and a tortured reading of Paul is used to condemn all homosexuals and homosexual behavior includes metaphors of redemption, renewal, inclusion and love – principles that invite homosexuals to accept their freedom and responsibility in Christ and demands that their fellow Christians accept them as well. The political piety of the fundamentalist religious right must not be exercised at the expense of our precious freedoms. And in this summer of our discontent, one of the most precious freedoms for which we must all fight is freedom from this last prejudice.

      Peter J. Gomes Professor of Christian Morals, Harvard University;Minister, American Baptist Church

      Nov 5, 2009 at 8:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoDoubleStandards
      NoDoubleStandards

      Brian’

      I don’t argue with idiots. Your first line labels you as such. Good luck with that.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 9:28 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      #50, no wonder this country gets dumber and dumber while numbnuts like you exist. Stop shoving your hetero “lifestyle” down our throats and take responsibility for the hetero moral degeneracy reflected in crimes of rape, incest, wars, out of wedlock births, prostitution, sex trafficking and state sanctioned pedophilia that allows under age kids, usually girls (14-17 years of age to marry adults “with parental consent). Yes pal, allowing under age kids to marry older people is nothing more than legalized pedophilia. So much for the hetero “lifestyle”.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 10:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian NJ
      Brian NJ

      @Nodoublestandard

      You are not too good to argue with idiots. It is you obligation to do so. No bliss no please.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 10:40 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Regarding #50–I can’t imagine my straight brothers would be flitting around on gay sites.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 10:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sapphocrat
      Sapphocrat

      @No Mercy: “Perhaps a little revenge is in order now, especially in places like Maine. Gays should immediately stop supporting the bigots in any way. Make them suffer!”

      I don’t think of it as revenge as much as I do “starving the beast.” Oh, sure, revenge is a bonus — but my primary goal in boycotting every last bigot from California to Maine is to bleed their coffers dry. I refuse to fund my own oppression.

      Also: “Gays should stop helping straights with issues like domestic violence (“men should be allowed to beat their wives into submission”), child welfare/education/coaching/mentoring (“we’re not breeding them after all, let them take care of their own dumb brats”), weddings (“let the bitches do their own hair, cater their own herd of oinkin’ in-laws, sew their own burlap sack wedding dresses, etc”), remodeling, interior decorating, landscaping, medical care, etc, etc. Before you do anything for a straight person again, ask them first what they think about gay marriage, then refuse to serve or help them if they disapprove.”

      I wouldn’t go that far on all points (although I like the idea of checking their stance before doing business with them), but believe me, I’m looking at, for example, voting against school bonds for the first time (hey, they’re not my kids; why should I pay more for some bigot’s brat to get a bigger swimming pool?), or how far I’m willing to go for _anyone’s_ rights/benefits other than my own. I’ve been giving and giving and giving to the people who are taking everything away from me. Why should I keep taking it up the ass, without so much as a reacharound?

      I’m even tempted to stop voting altogether, partly to fall off the rolls and never have to serve on a jury (I hardly feel obligated to do my “civic duty” anymore), and partly just to _withdraw_ from the very system that is making our lives hell.

      That we LGBTs participate in this dead-end ballot-initiative process at all is degrading. It’s demeaning.

      I wonder what would happen if, next time around, we all just sat it out and let the bigots have their ballot measure — without voting, without trying to stop them, and _certainly_ without wasting millions of dollars and who-knows how many man-hours we could be putting into our own community?

      When I think of what we spent, money- and people-wise, in California, and how much incredible work we _could_ have done with our own homeless youth, and HIV/AIDS programs… We could have set up dozens of scholarship programs, and work training, and… the list is endless.

      I’ll never say it’s the “wrong” time for marriage equality (it is always the right time, _and_ always the wrong time), but I’m beginning to think if we were smart, we’d withdraw from the process we _are_ going to keep losing, and work on our own infrastructure instead.

      I don’t know if that would do a thing toward our equality, but I for one would rather put my time and resources into doing something positive, productive, and longterm for my own people. (And to hell with everybody else.)

      No matter what we do right now, we are going to keep losing (thanks to such vile little creatures as that “ericka v.” thing above). I’m just facing up to that ugly fact now — and to the fact that what we’ve been doin’ ain’t workin’.

      It’s time to do something else.

      And there’s no reason we can’t starve the beast along the way.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 10:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Sapphocrat, You sound as low as I sounded yesterday. This perked me up:

      http://www.equalrightsfoundation.org/

      Hit “Press” when you get to the site and scroll down to “Hardball” with Olson and Boise. It says it in a nutshell.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 11:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Brian
      Brian

      @ Bill Purdue:

      Who said anything about “group hugs with Bigots?” That’s what “Gay Christians” do.

      You continue to believe that anger is the answer. Go ahead and stay angry. Some of us are looking for real solutions. yeah, it is about changing minds and persuading our fellow citizens to stand with us for equality. We can ignore and marginalize the way right, conservative religious groups. Ignoring these people would do more than yelling at them.

      To support your claims about anger – have a look at these activists in Dallas: http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/11/05/qls-wilkinson-vanderslice-get-in-mark-reeds-face-during-last-nights-rally-on-cedar-springs/comment-page-1/#comment-16383

      Nov 5, 2009 at 11:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • k6tmk6
      k6tmk6

      It’s clear to me today that if we continue to follow the legislative route to obtain marriage equality we need to be disciplined and follow a pattern. We’ve learned to hone our message with each win/loss. After Iowa, for example, it became clear to emphasize CIVIL marriage, to illustrate the right of religious organizations to ignore this in their houses of worship. What happened after Iowa? We won in the Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine legislatures. Now, with the so called People’s Veto in Maine yesterday, it’s clear we need to add one more element to our formula: education. We’ll need to emphasize RELIGIOUS and EDUCATIONAL freedom to our wording. If we word our bills that schools DO NOT have teach about gay marriage then haven’t we removed our opponent’s biggest argument?

      Nov 5, 2009 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoDoubleStandards
      NoDoubleStandards

      The problem with the courts is that they have been packed with far right conservatives for the last 30 years. To change this still requires pressure on the President.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 12:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      K6, exactly right. We’ve done a dismal job getting the “civil marriage” message across at every level. It can’t be said enough. That said, there are some religious bigots who say there is a link between religion and the civil component, yet…secular state government issues a marriage license. I think there’s a disconnect among the bigots. I see no similarity between the religious or civil component, do you? The procreation mantra of course is now a lame excuse they can no longer use because it would mean that they’d have to ban heteros from civil marriage who choose not to or cannot procreate as one of the tenets of marriage as they see it.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 12:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      Contrast the lies of B, a paid Obot hack, with reality.

      B says that “What Obama said during the campaign was that he personally believed that a marriage should be between a man and a woman, but he also opposed Proposition Eight calling it divisive.”

      That’s a crock. The Huffington post demonstrated it when they noted that “The Windy City Times dug through its archives and discovered two candidate surveys conducted in 1996, when Obama was running for the Illinois state senate.

      In the first, Obama responded to a question by writing “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”

      By 2000 Obama had reversed himself 180 degrees so he could pander to the bigot vote. He began by jumping into bed with Donnie McClurkin and appointing a bigoted pentecostal minister, Joshua Dubois, to build a nation web of christers for Obama.

      Then, at the bigotfest held at Rick Warrens SOB (southern baptist) church in palest Orange county Obama said “I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman [big applause], now for me as a Christian, it’s also a sacred union, now God’s in the mix [applause].”

      Obama repeated the same garbage on MTV on Nov. 2nd, 2008 saying he believes marriage is “between a man and a woman” and that he is “not in favor of gay marriage.”

      Then he said he was against Prop 8 because “I’ve stated my opposition to this. I think it’s unnecessary…”. In other words he opposed it on tactical and political grounds ignoring the principle that we have equal rights.

      On November 2nd, two days before the election I wrote that “The constant repetition of their superstitious (religious) prejudices about same sex marriage is a green light to bigots to vote against us. Obama’s phrase “god’s in the mix” says two things. First that same sex marriage is a sin and secondly that bigotry is sanctioned from “On High”. That excites those whose lifestyles embrace irrational and superstitious views, aka, christians, and if enough of them vote we’re toast.”

      Sorry to say, I was right. We lost by roughly the same margin Obama won in California. His bigoted war cry “gawd’s in the mix” galvanized the right and brought them out to vote in droves. It was an intentional move. Obama’s bigotry, cleverly exploited by the cults, inverted the polls and torpedoed our chances to save SSM in California.

      A week or so after the election even Andrew Sullivan, a rightist Obot admitted, “Obama has always opposed marriage equality, even splitting with his own church on the issue. In California, he got his way.” Slate magazine columnist Farhad Manjoo noted that “Obama opposed Proposition 8, but only guardedly—and he has always made plain his opposition to gay marriage.”

      In a Nov. 8 article the Los Angeles Times article about Prop 8 notes that “One complicating factor was that both sides in the campaign had plausible reason to claim Obama’s support.”

      Obama is an enemy of GLBT rights. He reversed himself on SSM to cater to bigots and he’s never looked back.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 4:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Maria
      Maria

      OBAMA!? Are you serious? The man has said countless times that he’s against GAY MARRIAGE. Gay people knew that when they voted for him. It shouldn’t be a big surprise that he’s not helping your agenda. Like seriously, how about blaming the real culprits? The real living people who voted AGAINST gay marriage. And by the way, McCain and Clinton were also opposed to gay marriage. People blaming Obama for everything pisses me off.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 5:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • MrBojangles
      MrBojangles

      I think a lot of positive signs have been overlooked on all of this; and that’s understandably easy to do because both Prop 8 and Prop 1 look like a step backwards – we’re having victories taken away.

      But consider this: what would 1’s results have looked like nine years ago? It probably would have been our 20% to their 80%. That means considerable progress has been made in convincing the general public that we deserve equal treatment. Granted, that sort of thing shouldn’t be the determining factor in it all, but reality doesn’t always mix with what’s ideal.

      Hate is a big motivator. It gets the bigots to the polls. Unfortunately, the good will of our allies (and even ourselves) doesn’t motivate them to the same degree. The good guys get complacent, apathetic. The fact that the results were so close to a 50-50 split despite that shows a very positive trend.

      I’m just as upset about the results as everyone else. If just few more things went our way that by all means should have gone our way, we would be celebrating victory right now. But we can’t give up and just say the general populace will always hate us. The tides have shifted too much in recent years to support that. I know these referendums paint a different picture at first, but try to look past that.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Attmay
      Attmay

      @ 123 Maria:

      “People blaming Obama for everything pisses me off.”

      Deal with it. Until he stops screwing things up it will continue.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 6:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chitown Kev
      Chitown Kev

      The gayest city in Maine has to be where I stayed, Ogunquit. It’s a small, very very gay town of about 1600 with 800 eligible voters. 244 of those voters Yes. My host was very pissed about that.

      244 Yes votes. In Ogunquit, Maine.

      They claim that we can hide. Well, the problem is they can smile in your face, take your money, and hide too.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 6:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniel
      Daniel

      The other option is simple and direct: have 32,000 gay people or straight allies move to Maine. The margin between victory and defeat in this People’s Veto was 267,575 to 299,484 – that’s just a 32,000 votes difference to switch it to victory. Also, in single year more than 20,000 old Mainers who vote die from old age, and 16,000 high schoolers in Maine become old enough to vote, so by the time another vote would come up, the passage of time and the grim reaper will have already improved chances of victory immensely.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 6:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kristen
      kristen

      I try my best to be faithful to Christianity as I understand it. If I were to think of one word to describe the teachings of Jesus, it would be Love. I do not for one instant believe it is loving to deny anyone equal rights. Therefore, I voted NO.

      I’m sad that there are so-called Christians who discriminate in Christ’s name. I think they do Christianity a MAJOR disservice. I work very hard not to hate/resent them; they give me a LOT of exercise in my practice of forgiving/loving people in my daily life.

      People that have inspired me (Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa) speak often of forgiving and not holding grudges. Look at how much they accomplished in their lives by choosing to love and forgive! I believe one must stand up and fight against injustice. From my understanding, it is done best when motivated by love, respect and forgiveness.

      Equality WILL win. I will never give up that hope.

      Nov 5, 2009 at 11:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael
      michael

      The majority of American are pieces of shit. Maine just reinforced that. Obama is a piece of shit because he stands with them. After all he has said what he believes about gay marriage and thats in line with every other state that has voted our rights away. The DNC are pieces of shit because they take no stand for our cause. America is just a cesspool of ignorance and hate. Its going down and it deserves it.

      Nov 6, 2009 at 12:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SoylentDIva
      SoylentDIva

      “The gayest city in Maine has to be where I stayed, Ogunquit. It’s a small, very very gay town of about 1600 with 800 eligible voters. 244 of those voters Yes. My host was very pissed about that.

      244 Yes votes. In Ogunquit, Maine.

      They claim that we can hide. Well, the problem is they can smile in your face, take your money, and hide too.

      Don’t let them hide, and don’t give them your money. Starve the beasts. They can hate you all they want but you don’t have to fund their bigotry any longer. http://base8.lavenderliberal.com/

      Nov 6, 2009 at 6:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Bill, I totally agree with you. Obama will sell his soul to the highest bidder, even to the thugs in the GOP, rather than stand by us, stick his neck out and support our FULL equality and that goes for the majority of the democrats in office. Its absolutely shameful that an African-American of his stature could support legally sanctioned government discrimination against LGBT people in the form of civil unions at the federal level which implies that we’re not worthy of our full equality because it would offend religious cultist constituents, but totally ignores how offended we are by his preference for their beliefs, putting religion before the rights of the last group that its ok to hate and dehumanize by taking away rights that were legislated for. He has not learned that separate is never equal, he of all people. He disgusts me!

      Nov 6, 2009 at 8:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      We scraped our “Obama” stickers off of our cars. I got rooked again by another politician! I blame my partner for getting me excited about this man, but mostly, I blame myself for getting sucked in again by his speeches. We are hung over a barrel, basically, because Republicans will line the Supreme Court with “activist Judges” in the conservative line, which will be our ultimate undoing in terms of equality.

      Read this, if you think you feel secure about our Supreme Court coming down on the side of equality:

      http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/42142

      And if that doesn’t give one pause to think, look at what’s happening in Iowa. The haters are going house to house, 20 people at a time and strategizing how to take away marriage, beginning with changing out the politicians there. Like that NOM-skull, Robert P. George said, “We can’t be half and half.” I suppose they are going to stamp out the states that do recognize our equality. I have to go to work now, so that I can pay my taxes to a country that doesn’t recognize me as a full citizen. “Taxation, without representation…..”

      Nov 6, 2009 at 9:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Robert, NYC
      Robert, NYC

      Since this will be a one-term presidency, no question about that, we’ll see the Supremes staked even more with right wingers, sealing our fate once and for all. With a republican stacked court, it wouldn’t matter if all 50 states recognized marriage equality, we’d still get no federal recognition. Time for militancy, there is NO other recourse, and that time is now. We’ve exhausted all avenues trying to be politically correct, but that hasn’t worked. Time for our collective gloves to come off once and for all. Lets get back to civil unrest we had in the 60s, start our own civil rights march in every state, relentlessly.

      Nov 6, 2009 at 9:20 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • vernonvanderbilt
      vernonvanderbilt

      @Robert, NYC

      Amen, and where do I sign up?

      Nov 6, 2009 at 9:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • dontblamemeivotedforhillary
      dontblamemeivotedforhillary

      Blame gout-causing Lobster! Red bastards!!!!

      Nov 6, 2009 at 12:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      No. 133 • Robert, NYC

      I agree Robert. What we need to reverse these losses and begin winning is a group that expresses the will of activists in our communities instead of people who front for the Democrats.

      And the way to begin is to get in touch with Equality Across America, the ones who organized the march. They’re at a cross roads, their politics are 1,000 times better than HRC and other fronts for the Democrats and they have some money left after the march and a huge mailing list.

      I suggest we all get in touch with them and ask them to call a national conference of activists on the basis of the following principles:

      Total independence from the front groups for the two bigot parties, the Democrats and Republicans.

      A mass action perspective to put maximum pressure on the courts, legislatures and the Bigot in Chief in the White House

      A thoroughly democratic internal structure that operates as much as possible without paid functionaries, with a leadership elected on the basis of their political perspective, subject to easy recall and paid a modest stipend, one more fitting to a Ford Escort lifestyle than Joe Solmonese’s Lincoln Navigator lifestyle.

      Nov 6, 2009 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • John
      John

      roflmao

      Nov 7, 2009 at 8:03 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • libhomo
      libhomo

      I was going to include Maine in my summer travel plans. That isn’t going to happen now.

      Nov 7, 2009 at 10:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      After having read Linda Greenlaw’s “Hungry Ocean” I Was going to buy her others. Now Maine has lost it’s allure. Sorry Linda, collateral damage. I googled around, seeing if you had taken it upon yourself to stand up against discrimination and found nothingness. Silence is so loud. Until I hear otherwise, your voice is now silenced with me.

      Nov 8, 2009 at 7:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tracey
      Tracey

      Please do not use rape to describe things that are not rape.

      Nov 17, 2009 at 3:35 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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