I agree Robert. What we need to reverse these losses and begin winning is a group that expresses the will of activists in our communities instead of people who front for the Democrats.

And the way to begin is to get in touch with Equality Across America, the ones who organized the march. They’re at a cross roads, their politics are 1,000 times better than HRC and other fronts for the Democrats and they have some money left after the march and a huge mailing list.

I suggest we all get in touch with them and ask them to call a national conference of activists on the basis of the following principles:

Total independence from the front groups for the two bigot parties, the Democrats and Republicans.

A mass action perspective to put maximum pressure on the courts, legislatures and the Bigot in Chief in the White House

A thoroughly democratic internal structure that operates as much as possible without paid functionaries, with a leadership elected on the basis of their political perspective, subject to easy recall and paid a modest stipend, one more fitting to a Ford Escort lifestyle than Joe Solmonese’s Lincoln Navigator lifestyle.

Amen, and where do I sign up?

Read this, if you think you feel secure about our Supreme Court coming down on the side of equality:

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/42142

And if that doesn’t give one pause to think, look at what’s happening in Iowa. The haters are going house to house, 20 people at a time and strategizing how to take away marriage, beginning with changing out the politicians there. Like that NOM-skull, Robert P. George said, “We can’t be half and half.” I suppose they are going to stamp out the states that do recognize our equality. I have to go to work now, so that I can pay my taxes to a country that doesn’t recognize me as a full citizen. “Taxation, without representation…..”

244 Yes votes. In Ogunquit, Maine.

They claim that we can hide. Well, the problem is they can smile in your face, take your money, and hide too.
”

Don’t let them hide, and don’t give them your money. Starve the beasts. They can hate you all they want but you don’t have to fund their bigotry any longer. http://base8.lavenderliberal.com/

I’m sad that there are so-called Christians who discriminate in Christ’s name. I think they do Christianity a MAJOR disservice. I work very hard not to hate/resent them; they give me a LOT of exercise in my practice of forgiving/loving people in my daily life.

People that have inspired me (Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa) speak often of forgiving and not holding grudges. Look at how much they accomplished in their lives by choosing to love and forgive! I believe one must stand up and fight against injustice. From my understanding, it is done best when motivated by love, respect and forgiveness.

Equality WILL win. I will never give up that hope.

244 Yes votes. In Ogunquit, Maine.

They claim that we can hide. Well, the problem is they can smile in your face, take your money, and hide too.

“People blaming Obama for everything pisses me off.”

Deal with it. Until he stops screwing things up it will continue.

But consider this: what would 1′s results have looked like nine years ago? It probably would have been our 20% to their 80%. That means considerable progress has been made in convincing the general public that we deserve equal treatment. Granted, that sort of thing shouldn’t be the determining factor in it all, but reality doesn’t always mix with what’s ideal.

Hate is a big motivator. It gets the bigots to the polls. Unfortunately, the good will of our allies (and even ourselves) doesn’t motivate them to the same degree. The good guys get complacent, apathetic. The fact that the results were so close to a 50-50 split despite that shows a very positive trend.

I’m just as upset about the results as everyone else. If just few more things went our way that by all means should have gone our way, we would be celebrating victory right now. But we can’t give up and just say the general populace will always hate us. The tides have shifted too much in recent years to support that. I know these referendums paint a different picture at first, but try to look past that.

B says that “What Obama said during the campaign was that he personally believed that a marriage should be between a man and a woman, but he also opposed Proposition Eight calling it divisive.”

That’s a crock. The Huffington post demonstrated it when they noted that “The Windy City Times dug through its archives and discovered two candidate surveys conducted in 1996, when Obama was running for the Illinois state senate.

In the first, Obama responded to a question by writing “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”

By 2000 Obama had reversed himself 180 degrees so he could pander to the bigot vote. He began by jumping into bed with Donnie McClurkin and appointing a bigoted pentecostal minister, Joshua Dubois, to build a nation web of christers for Obama.

Then, at the bigotfest held at Rick Warrens SOB (southern baptist) church in palest Orange county Obama said “I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman [big applause], now for me as a Christian, it’s also a sacred union, now God’s in the mix [applause].”

Obama repeated the same garbage on MTV on Nov. 2nd, 2008 saying he believes marriage is “between a man and a woman” and that he is “not in favor of gay marriage.”

Then he said he was against Prop 8 because “I’ve stated my opposition to this. I think it’s unnecessary…”. In other words he opposed it on tactical and political grounds ignoring the principle that we have equal rights.

On November 2nd, two days before the election I wrote that “The constant repetition of their superstitious (religious) prejudices about same sex marriage is a green light to bigots to vote against us. Obama’s phrase “god’s in the mix” says two things. First that same sex marriage is a sin and secondly that bigotry is sanctioned from “On High”. That excites those whose lifestyles embrace irrational and superstitious views, aka, christians, and if enough of them vote we’re toast.”

Sorry to say, I was right. We lost by roughly the same margin Obama won in California. His bigoted war cry “gawd’s in the mix” galvanized the right and brought them out to vote in droves. It was an intentional move. Obama’s bigotry, cleverly exploited by the cults, inverted the polls and torpedoed our chances to save SSM in California.

A week or so after the election even Andrew Sullivan, a rightist Obot admitted, “Obama has always opposed marriage equality, even splitting with his own church on the issue. In California, he got his way.” Slate magazine columnist Farhad Manjoo noted that “Obama opposed Proposition 8, but only guardedly—and he has always made plain his opposition to gay marriage.”

In a Nov. 8 article the Los Angeles Times article about Prop 8 notes that “One complicating factor was that both sides in the campaign had plausible reason to claim Obama’s support.”

Obama is an enemy of GLBT rights. He reversed himself on SSM to cater to bigots and he’s never looked back.

Who said anything about “group hugs with Bigots?” That’s what “Gay Christians” do.

You continue to believe that anger is the answer. Go ahead and stay angry. Some of us are looking for real solutions. yeah, it is about changing minds and persuading our fellow citizens to stand with us for equality. We can ignore and marginalize the way right, conservative religious groups. Ignoring these people would do more than yelling at them.

To support your claims about anger – have a look at these activists in Dallas: http://www.dallasvoice.com/ins.....ment-16383

http://www.equalrightsfoundation.org/

Hit “Press” when you get to the site and scroll down to “Hardball” with Olson and Boise. It says it in a nutshell.

I don’t think of it as revenge as much as I do “starving the beast.” Oh, sure, revenge is a bonus — but my primary goal in boycotting every last bigot from California to Maine is to bleed their coffers dry. I refuse to fund my own oppression.

Also: “Gays should stop helping straights with issues like domestic violence (“men should be allowed to beat their wives into submission”), child welfare/education/coaching/mentoring (“we’re not breeding them after all, let them take care of their own dumb brats”), weddings (“let the bitches do their own hair, cater their own herd of oinkin’ in-laws, sew their own burlap sack wedding dresses, etc”), remodeling, interior decorating, landscaping, medical care, etc, etc. Before you do anything for a straight person again, ask them first what they think about gay marriage, then refuse to serve or help them if they disapprove.”

I wouldn’t go that far on all points (although I like the idea of checking their stance before doing business with them), but believe me, I’m looking at, for example, voting against school bonds for the first time (hey, they’re not my kids; why should I pay more for some bigot’s brat to get a bigger swimming pool?), or how far I’m willing to go for _anyone’s_ rights/benefits other than my own. I’ve been giving and giving and giving to the people who are taking everything away from me. Why should I keep taking it up the ass, without so much as a reacharound?

I’m even tempted to stop voting altogether, partly to fall off the rolls and never have to serve on a jury (I hardly feel obligated to do my “civic duty” anymore), and partly just to _withdraw_ from the very system that is making our lives hell.

That we LGBTs participate in this dead-end ballot-initiative process at all is degrading. It’s demeaning.

I wonder what would happen if, next time around, we all just sat it out and let the bigots have their ballot measure — without voting, without trying to stop them, and _certainly_ without wasting millions of dollars and who-knows how many man-hours we could be putting into our own community?

When I think of what we spent, money- and people-wise, in California, and how much incredible work we _could_ have done with our own homeless youth, and HIV/AIDS programs… We could have set up dozens of scholarship programs, and work training, and… the list is endless.

I’ll never say it’s the “wrong” time for marriage equality (it is always the right time, _and_ always the wrong time), but I’m beginning to think if we were smart, we’d withdraw from the process we _are_ going to keep losing, and work on our own infrastructure instead.

I don’t know if that would do a thing toward our equality, but I for one would rather put my time and resources into doing something positive, productive, and longterm for my own people. (And to hell with everybody else.)

No matter what we do right now, we are going to keep losing (thanks to such vile little creatures as that “ericka v.” thing above). I’m just facing up to that ugly fact now — and to the fact that what we’ve been doin’ ain’t workin’.

It’s time to do something else.

And there’s no reason we can’t starve the beast along the way.

You are not too good to argue with idiots. It is you obligation to do so. No bliss no please.

I don’t argue with idiots. Your first line labels you as such. Good luck with that.

Peter J. Gomes Professor of Christian Morals, Harvard University;Minister, American Baptist Church

Stop calling yourself a Christian, you are a conservative christian, a bigoted creature straight from Satan himself. You harmed Maine families and children with your vote, and and are as unpatriotic as your sin against your neighbors. Sleep tight! You just took health care and money right out of the mouth of babies. You can cherry pick from your bible all you want, you just treated your neighbor very very badly.

But don’t worry, after gay people get their equality you and your conservative christian buddies will move on to they next group to hate, just as you have done all throughout your sick, evil history of using your religion for a mask to hide your hate. But we see you! Blacks, Jews, Catholics, Women — who’s next! Liberals, pornographers? Open your bible and start the cherry picking again.

Our country was founded on separation of church and state but unfortunately the last 8 years has blurred the lines of separation more than ever. Religious organizations that finance these ballot measures are shaping public policy which makes them political, they should be taxed period. Our founding fathers made a clear sparation of church and state for a reason, so the “American Taliban” could not control policy like they do now.

What is obvious is that none of you are understanding a basic point. Your message does not ring true with the majority. Blame anyone you want, guess what? You will continue losing. People are voting their conscience. You activists are labeling the very people who support YOU, Christians, as homophobes and bigots. That is so smart to demean 95% of your support. That is a real election winner allright. 31 states in a row shows how effective that is.

You speak about others denying rights to yourselves(gay), and that is ridiculous. Everyone here has the exact same rights as any other citizen. Pretending different will not change it. Minorities, especially blacks are not at all happy with the “gay is the new black” meme. It is false, and linking the demands for sexual entitlements as a civil rights struggle to the real civil rights struggles is offensive.

All of you can keep on labeling, demeaning and living in Wonderland, but the simple fact is the majority of people believe homosexual marriage is wrong. Forcing them to accept a contrary belief will never work. Demeaning them for it will result in less support.

None of you bright bulbs have figured it out yet. All of you have constantly demeaned any and all Christians, and now you whine about losing, not enough Christians turned out to support your cause, Gee, I wonder why?

You mean the circuit party in Washington? Lotta good that did.

Also, blame our apathy as a community (not the people of Maine though, they were anything but apathetic). The campaign had over 8000 volunteers, about 200 were from out of state from what I heard. I drove 5 hours from NY (8 on the way back) to campaign. I met two college students who drove up from Maryland. I met a bunch of people who flew in from California. Boston is less than 2 hours from Portland, and less to towns like Kennebunkport. Where was everyone? There are thousands of gays in Boston. WTF were they?

Finally, to build on what I was saying before. Whoever chose the color for the No on 1 ads should be fired from every doing advertising again. What would you even call that color?

What Obama said during the campaign was that he personally believed that a marriage should be between a man and a woman, but he also opposed Proposition Eight calling it divisive. In other words, he was saying (by example) that personal beliefs should not interfere with governmental principles regarding equality.

That’s precisely what people need to hear: if one’s personal belief is that marriage is between a man and a women, then don’t marry someone of the same sex, but don’t butt into the personal lives of others either.

• 15 million unemployed and counting.

• Coffins coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan and the huge numbers of civilians murdered to profit Chevron and Haliburton.

• Sustained attacks on us by Obama and his administration.

• A recession that wants’ to be a depression when it grows up.

Etc.

You certainly can abstain from the fight and sit around the campfire hugging Robertson, Obama and Dobson and humming Cumbayá. But as I said, expect more than a few giggles from the rest of us.

So, your strategy is to find “allies who can put an end to all this madness once and for all.”

Great Plan.

You ignore the fact that we need to change minds. This is probably due to the fact that yours is unchangeable.

Happy hunting.

The answer is to replace the politics of dependence with the politics of independence and to break to the left, embed our selves in union, recognize that electoral politics are a crock and collect allies who can put an end to all this madness once and for all.