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Rumors about the sexuality of Jennifer Knapp, the one-time Christian singer, have been swirling for years. But she was off in Australia, with the reversible flushing toilets, for much of that time, and didn’t have an opportunity to “defend” herself. On Larry King’s show, after coming out this month, she did just that — against folks like Pastor Bob Botsford, of the Horizon Christian Television, who has no good answer why The Sin Of Homosexuality is any worse than the sins Botsford has himself undoubtedly committed.
PADude
Unlike the fascist branch of Christianity, other people’s sins don’t concern us (if we even buy the rather prideful, self-important sin concept at all).
Personally, I’ll spend a great deal of time working on my own failures (NOT sins, thanks), and none at all pointing out someone else’s. Unless they’re on my case, in which case they’d better prepare for an enumeration of their own.
Oddly, the extremists tend to either ignore their own “sins” or raise them to a level of singular pride for “overcoming” them. Neither is acceptable within their religion.
Paul Mc
Hurrah for Jennifer…. told him where to go. “Bob… don’t interrupt me. I HAVE spiritual leadership in my life. You are not that man in my life. You don’t have the right to speak to me in the manner in which you have publicly”…
Rashid
Even though she may not come off as an LGBT advocate, she is very stern and very strong in the way she carries herself as she speaks, which is a very important quality. LGBT people who go on air, on channels such as CNN, are sometimes passive. They need to have balls as big as Knapp’s and shut someone up if they’re trying to interrupt. (And in case you didn’t notice, right wing conservatives often raise their voice, interrupt, and try to refute statements by simply sounding louder.)
fredo777
I have the answer for why The Sin Of Homosexuality is worse than the sins every other non-gay human undoubtedly commits…b/c it’s icky.
Andrew
Go Jennifer Knapp!
I’m not a Christian, but I was brought up in a very Christian household, and I truly hope she will help lead the way towards Christians abandoning dangerous fundamentalism.
And make no mistake, if Christians hope to recover lost respect, they WILL have to leave the fundie stuff behind.
Andrew
One more thing.
Was I the only one saying loudly “PLEASEEEEEE!!!” when he’s all like “Well, I’m here cause I’m concerned about you…”
They always say that!
What the hell “concerns” him so much? That she’s found love? That “CONCERNS” him? REALLY?!
Jonathan
She was very well spoken. When a Christian tells you they “love” you, beware. It means they are about to judge you.
God hates who you are, but we love you – anyway. I’m so tired of Christian dogma. The only way this will end is when fomenting hatred against gay people no longer pays. As in large sums of money. They raise huge amounts of money by promoting fear of gay people, time for it to end.
shadow_man
To those of you using the Bible as a weapon against homosexuality, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
http://www.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
http://www.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
http://www.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
http://www.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
http://www.gaychristian101.com/
Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.
This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God’s will.
shadow_man
To those of you using the Bible as a weapon against homosexuality, you are wrong. Homosexuality is not a sin. The Bible is constantly being taken out of context to support anti-gay views. Scholars who have studied the Bible in context of the times and in relation to other passages have shown those passages (Leviticus, Corinthians, Romans, etc) have nothing to do with homosexuality. These passages often cherry-picked while ignoring the rest of the Bible. The sins theses passages are referring to are idolatry, Greek temple sex worship, prostitution, pederasty with teen boys, and rape, not homosexuality or two loving consenting adults.
(Change *** to www)
***.soulfoodministry.org/docs/English/NotASin.htm
***.jesus21.com/content/sex/bible_homosexuality_print.html
***.christchapel.com/reclaiming.html
***.stjohnsmcc.org/new/BibleAbuse/BiblicalReferences.php
***.gaychristian101.com/
Thats why Jesus never mentions it as well. There is nothing immoral, wrong, or sinful about being gay. Jesus, however, clearly states he HATES hypocrites. If you preach goodness, then promote hate and twist the words of the Bible, you are a hypocrite, and will be judged and sent to hell. Homosexuals will not go to hell, hypocrites will.
This is very similar to the religious bigots of the past, where they took Bible passages to condone slavery, keep women down, and used Bible passages to claim blacks as curses who should be enslaved by the white man. People used God to claim that blacks marrying whites was unnatural, and not of God’s will.
FreddyMertz
SNAP!
fredo777
@fredo777: lol comment hidden?
i’m glad to see that people here can spot sarcasm when they read it. i’m gay + i wasn’t seriously saying that homosexuality is “icky”. give me a break
Phil
@fredo777: Thanks for clearing that up. Quotation marks around icky (the first time) would have helped.
GoodBoy
@fredo777:
I have just finished reading the exceptional book, “From Disgust to Humanity: Sexual Orientation and Constitutional Law” and your comment typifies EXACTLY why same-sex issues are treated as they are in the law. (The author is Martha C. Nussbaum, Ernst Freund Distinguished Service Professor of Law and Ethics at the University of Chicago, appointed in Law, Philosophy, and Divinity.)
I recommend this book to anyone who has ever had to argue against someone based upon the “icky” argument (doesn’t that mean ALL of us?).
fredo777
@Phil: I didn’t think they were necessary considering the fact that I repeated Queerty’s capitalization of “The Sin Of Homosexuality” + was pretty obviously being facetious. Not to mention the fact that I post here all the time.
B
“Why Aren’t Homosexuals on National Television Condemning Sinful Christians?” … the reason is that it is considered rude to kiss and tell.
B
It’s too bad that comment No. 4 by fredo777 was hidden due to “low comment rating” because all he did was joke that Christians think it is so bad “b/c it’s icky.” What he obviously means is that Christian religious beliefs simply reflect personal beliefs with prejudices, no matter how ridiculous, included. It turns out that this really is true.
There’s actually scientific evidence, courtesy of MRI, that a Christian (probably any religious person, actually) believes that “God” believes what the “believer” believes. You can read the details by visiting http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18216-dear-god-please-confirm-what-i-already-believe.html . The areas of the brain that become active when you ask a Christian what God believes turns out to be the same areas that become active when you ask the Christian what he/she believes. Different areas become active if you ask what someone else believes. Some additional tests rule out other explanations (read the article for details).
While we can laugh at it, it also allows us to predict what will happen eventually – as society gets over its homophobia, Christian theology will follow in tow. Unfortunately, things being towed usually stay a bit behind, so don’t expect instant progress. Sure it is annoying, but the problem will eventually go away.
Davida
I wrote an entire research paper on how the bible never condemns homosexuality taking each and every verse that religious people try to use.
Additionally, I wrote another longer research people on the unconstitutionality of same-sex marriage bans.
Bible one: http://youreadygrandma.blogspot.com/2010/04/bible-never-condemns-homosexuality.html
Marriage one: http://youreadygrandma.blogspot.com/2009/05/constitutionality-of-proposition-8.html
Davida
Above post “people” meant paper… IDK what I’m thinking.
fredo777
btw, i’m not really upset about the hidden comment thing. true, i think this new comment hiding/spotlighting is kind of ridonkulous. still, i realize my comment being hidden was a case of mistaken intent.
i wonder if Encyclopedia Brown could have helped.
“Encyclopedia Brown + The Case Of The Mistaken Intent”
declanto
@fredo777: Oh, number 4, that it’s “icky” is perfect Christan logic in a nutshell. this post should be open to viewing just because of its absurdity/irony. The hidden comment feature is a form of censorship.
pegasian
There is an interesting discussion about this episode going on at the Larry King Blog on CNN. Maybe some of you should join in.
Patrick
I think that Jennifer handled herself well in the interview. There were moments at the beginning that I started to sense emotional fallout and wondered if she was ready for this interview emotionally. But Larry was a good ref for her and agree or disagree with Haggard, she seemed to gain her stride when he came on.
Jennifer does not represent a new breed in this world. I am friends with some GLBT people of faith and some of those friends go to my church (Yep, I am a pastor). The UCC denomination has been gay accepting/affirming for decades and the ELCA has recently come on board along with a few others. But those are mostly considered mainline denominations and the Evangelical and Fundamental denominations have largely not changed their stance.
Jennifer shakes us up a little. In the evangelical world (of which I am a part) this issue raises so much passion and vitriol unlike any other. Those of us who do welcome and encourage gay believer to explore their faith without putting the “gay issue” in the forefront as something to be changed before they can explore their faith take much heat for it.
End of the day, we in the church have done a lot of harm to the GLBT community. I include myself in this. I have been a Christian since 1986 and a minister since 1994 it was not until 2006 that I started to be challenged that my position in this matter was wrong. It was a hard process and one that took more patience from some gay Christians than I deserved.
There is a chasm that exists between our communities and in my mind it is the people on my end of the chasm that need to build the bridge.
In the meantime, this leaves the gay Christian caught in the cross hairs of a culture war they never intended to be a part of. It is this last point that keeps me up at night sometimes. Jennifer is a person, not an object to be studies, judged and dissected. Yet she is not being spoken of a person, she is spoken of as an object who needs to “come back”. Come back to what? My dysfunctional co dependent abusive family that will give her ulcers? It is my end of the fence that needs to do better, not yours.
Patrick
Sorry for the poor grammar. Forgot to proofread. đ
Cam
Because every time there is a disscussion aboutt his they always call on “HRC” who are so desperate to be liked that they won’t respond to these types of attacks in any meaningful way.
Candace Chellew
I think Jennifer did well against Botsford and Haggard. However, I’m so tired of these “balanced” interviews where the bigots get their say, too. Homosexuality is not a “two-side” issue – it’s about how people are treated in our society and to allow people to argue that others should be treated badly simply because of who they are isn’t the “other side” of the issue – it’s bigotry plain and simple and should not be tolerated.
I wrote a piece about this on Religion Dispatches. I invite you to check it out here:
http://bit.ly/cHKOqh
nikko
Thank you for that, CANDACE. Good stuff.
nikko
PATRICK, but are you still anti-gay or simply trying soft peddle the evangelical christian message? Do you still believe homosexuality is sinful? Because that to me is no better than in- your- face anti-gay christianity.
Patrick
Nikko,
Fair question. Short answer to your questions in the order that you asked them is no and no.
AlwaysGay
Why is it whenever a gay person comes out and they go on air there is some bigot there to degrade them and all gay people? Make no mistake Bob Botsford is there to represent the heterosexual supremacist ideology and to put Jennifer in “her place.” Heterosexuals are outsiders with prejudices to homosexuality. They are NOT gay people’s authority. To Jennifer and all other gay people ignore everything Bob Botsford said, it’s bull.
nikko
Thank you, Patrick. That was a relief. If I was truly born again many years ago ( I believe I was, babtized and all, etc.) I often painfully wonder if I will make it to heaven and what will it be like afterwards. As it stands, I believe Jesus in name only. I don’t know if my name is still written in the Book of life, or if He blotted me out. The rest has left me too bitterly painful to go on with christianity/fellowship. I think I’m truly agnostic now. The pain surfaces when I read news like this, and the old wounds resurface. And the bitternes.
nikko
ALWAYSGAY, I love your reasoning. I get what you mean. We are a kindred spirit. Peace and courage.
Patrick
You are welcome,Nikko. I wish I could say your story was the first time I have heard that story. The bitterness is understandable, but I hope that one day you get to release it. Dr Maya Angelou says that,”Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host.” That suggests that it has no effect on the object of your bitterness, just you. Life is too short and precious and has the potential to be beautiful. Don’t waste it on bitterness.
I don’t think this is the right venue to have a deeper convo on these matters and I don’t wanna hijack a thread. Should you wish to discuss more I will be happy to put my email addy out (if that is permissible here). If not, no worries. I primarily came on to give my two cents for I am in love with my self deluded perceived brilliance of thought. đ
Kieran
Interesting how Botsford didn’t warn Larry King he was “a sinner” for divorcing six (6) wives, especially since Jesus specifically says divorce = adultery and didn’t mention anything at all about homosexuality in the Gospels.
nikko
@Patrick: @Patrick: Thanks, appreciate it.
Sexy Rexy
I don’t because I have better things to do!!!
chattycathy
There is prejudice against GLBT even in certain ‘pagan’ communities.
nikko
Thank you, SHADOWMAN, just what my fundamentalist cousin needs to hear, as he’s been e-mailing me constanlty with anti-gay condemnation! I no longer profess to be a born again believer( I just believe Jesus in name only now) but i know he refutes all pro-gay viewpoints-ugh, so arrogant.