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First Person

Why Straight Girls Who Hang Out In Gay Bars Can Be A Big Problem

10298847_339445356208868_3592885211451727652_nShe was beautiful, there was no denying that. A tall girl — just below my 5’11’’ eye level in flats — with white blonde hair. Her Brigitte Bardot-lashed eyes and perfectly glossed lips were set neatly and symmetrically in her heart shaped face.

And then she opened her mouth.

“You know you want me, all the gay boys do,” she said matter-of-factly, almost accusingly even, as if in my greeting I had somehow attempted to overturn a commonly known truth, like “the sky is blue,” or more appropriately in her case, “alcohol makes people drunk.”

The truth is, I didn’t want anything from this girl, not even the tip she assured me in that accusatory tone she would “be the first” to garnish my jock strap with. And as the evening grew on I found myself wanting even more “less” from this blonde-haired, blue-eyed she devil. I didn’t want her attitude; I didn’t want her light-up pom-poms she kept gesturing for me to grab (this was the Lower East Side, not the White Party circa 2001); and I definitely didn’t want her constant attempts to stand on the table next to my go-go box and keep dancing “at” me. 

10369895_342087589277978_4800189911144996973_nAnd then, finally, on her third attempt to shove the plastic handle of that goddamn pom-pom up my ass, I found myself thinking that dangerous, precarious thought: “I f*cking hate straight girls in gay bars!”

Now let’s pause for a second.

First, let me emphasize I actually don’t hate “straight girls” nor do I dislike females in general in any setting, bar or otherwise. In fact, I work mostly with women and have so since I first started stripping down in dressing rooms with burlesque dancers five years ago. Even in gay nightlife, I work consistently with a handful of “hetero-but-queer”-identified women who are smart, creative and simply fun people to be around. Furthermore, my favorite events to work are those “mixed” parties where crowds are composed of a multitude of genders and sexualities like some Kinsey-esque, United Colors of Benetton ad campaign. 

10300009_361060587380678_7371689381336509423_nWhat I can’t stand though is “that one straight girl” (and there’s always one) in a gay or queer space who not only demands attention but also conveys that you and I and everyone else within a 20 foot-radius have all been cast for her personal Sex-in-the-City-Will-&-Grace-Gay-Best-Friend bullshit fantasy. However, having voiced my concern, I also can’t overlook the truly enjoyable moments I’ve had dancing for women from gay bars to burlesque theaters to even bachelorette parties in apartment living rooms. I’ve even actually received some of my better tips from female audiences: ten bucks from the club girl at WestGay just to shake my ass for her for five seconds (I mean I was going to do it anyway); or the lady at Webster Hall who nonchalantly tucked a twenty in my g-string, whispering, “You deserve this,” over her bare shoulder—I got a former stripper vibe off her. Finally, outside clubland and on the web, I’ve encountered innumerable supportive and generous female fans of gay porn, especially the collective “Cocky Boys’ Fan Girls,” several of whom have even become sort of “porn mom” figures in my life.

10487485_375081009311969_8342392869699885978_nNo, I think if I really dissect this “straight girl in a gay bar” issue, the problem doesn’t revolve around a person’s gender or sexual preference as much as it does her (and his) sense of entitlement, the “dance for me monkey” attitude or “I love you gays” declaration that is just as counterproductive and homogenizing as “all straight girls in gay bars are obnoxious.” The reality is that most nightlifer’s from all parties of the spectrum have probably encountered both equally annoying female and male audience members. It’s just a given. The unceasing, blinding light of a recording cell phone or a reddening, tip-less slap on the ass are just as offensive no matter the parts of the perpetrator. For example, I actually had a “first” on the go-go platform — and let’s be real, I don’t have many “first’s” left. Recently, I literally had a guy try and aggressively finger me as he put a one dollar bill in my underwear! 

10525693_375081005978636_7342763932203041751_nNow, I know people joke all the time about finger blasting go-go boys, but I’m being serious here. That finger had gusto. And persistence, as in several attempts. And had I not clenched down the fortress walls, this man’s battering ram of an index would have undoubtedly forced its way in. Resisting the urge to stick my own finger in his eye, I firmly told this guy using so many choice words that his digit digging wasn’t “appropriate.” Embarrassed, he stumbled away only to come back later and slur, “I just want you to know I really respect you.” 

“That’s great,” I replied, “But what you should really respect is that I’ll kick your ass if you try that again.” Thus, it is scientifically proven that the “douchebag-making fairy” doesn’t discriminate among male or females. 

unnamed

Chris Harder with Wasabassco Burlesque performers

If anything, I think the “straight girl problem” actually indirectly points to a much larger issue of how we (and I include myself in this) have been categorizing and sectioning off not just parties or bars, but sexual and lifestyle identities in general. The categories of “gay” and “straight” no longer indicate one’s sexuality and identity in the same manner as they did even ten years ago, much like the term “queer” doesn’t have to apply to one’s sexual preference. When I think, “God, another straight girl in a gay bar,” am I really reacting to her gender or inferred sexuality, or am I associating it with a larger, more mainstream “hetero-normative” identity that actually repulses me?

Pom-pom’s and fingers aside, it’s clear to me that barring all ladies isn’t going to create some utopian gay clubhouse. Instead of stressing the surface differences between “me and she,” I think we need to (gently) probe deeper into what it is we’re actually trying to keep out of gay and queer spaces, and even more importantly, why

For more info on Chris Harder, go here (link NSFW).

By:           CHRIS HARDER
On:           Jul 25, 2014
Tagged: , ,
  • 68 Comments
    • skylerbound
      skylerbound

      I think there’s a long list of reason’s straight girls should leave queer spaces to queer people.

      One is def the Obnoxious Straight Girl, or the girls that have their boyfriends tag-along or the poor girls that don’t want to even be there but are the DD for their friend

      but most importantly straight girls in general flocking to gays bars, I feel, actually deters bi/lesbian women from going. My fav bar to actually go to now is actually a dive bar that’s probably known as a lesbian bar(though it’s open to all queer people) and the atmosphere is 1000000x better without the straight girls.

      Love them greatly, but it is better to have solely queer spaces. Sorry

      Jul 25, 2014 at 7:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • watching1
      watching1

      I at least partly agree with you. But I also understand why straight women like gay bars. They’re just so much safer and therefore more fun. But the lack of respect is pretty damning.

      Wasn’t there an article recently about why bachelorette parties shouldn’t be held in gay bars?

      I think the entire problem, which leaks into that entitlement issue mentioned (and that women should be a lot more aware of, considering). As a society, we don’t have a lot of respect for personal bodily autonomy, especially when it comes to anything to do with sex.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 8:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • QJ201
      QJ201

      Straight women are so accustomed to always having the gaze of (straight) men, they cannot deal with their “invisibility” in gay bars.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 8:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Adleyboy
      Adleyboy

      Please do not call it sexual preference. There is a difference between that and sexual orientation. Preference makes it sound like it’s a choice when it’s not. If you use sexual preference it should be used in the context of talking about what you enjoy in bed and that’s it.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 9:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ashersea
      ashersea

      First off, A+ to the dancer.

      Secondly, I feel brides-to-be want to fulfill their sexual desires just like men do when they go to a strip club. The problem is that there aren’t any straight strip joints that feature only male dancers on the caliber of is available to men. So the women end up going to gay bars to see and perhaps interact with sexy men.

      Yes it can get annoying but we are blessed to have so many choices.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 9:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Kieru
      Kieru

      It’s weird to me that the comments seem to imply that yes, we should have LGBTQ-only spaces. That’s not what the overall conclusion of the article suggests… quite the opposite he implies that it isn’t her sexual orientation or her gender that is the issue.

      And you know ‘that one straight girl’ sounds a lot like ‘that one gay guy’. You know… the one that thinks it’s ‘okay’ to get handsy when he thinks YOU think he’s had one too many drinks. The one who thinks the Go-Go boys are there to be groped without consent or who thinks being the loudest voice in the room makes him the most popular. It’s more like “That one douche”, because gender and sexual orientation don’t apply … they have a sense of entitlement that supersedes your right to any privacy, dignity, or respect.

      We probably look at the ‘straight girl problem’ more critically because at the end of the day they are seen as outsiders; and that’s another problem of its own.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 9:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • buffnightwing
      buffnightwing

      At least he’s furry! Thank the Universe for furry men! WOOF WOOF!

      Jul 25, 2014 at 9:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robirob
      robirob

      I don’t really think it’s about gender or being straight. Don’t be an obnoxious jerk and treat the other patrons with respect and you should be fine and a pleasant addition to the crowd.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Daniepwils
      Daniepwils

      While I do agree with him. I will say this. He wouldn’t be complaining if that man was putting a $20 or two down his undies while putting a finger up his butt. I have seen it all too many times. One of my good friends who has more money than he knows what to do with gets away with this crap all the time. The dancers all have big smiles on their faces as well. So yeah my question to this guy is, what if those were $20’s he was putting down your pants would you let him put a finger up your bum? YES you would!

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      This article seemed to wander all over the place. It started with it’s subject, but then seemed like he was afraid of sticking to the subject so the rest of it was a half hearted “Oh not really”.

      Look, the girl was a crazy attention whore and there is nothing wrong with pointing out her particular type as something irritating.

      We all know the type he is talking about. There are the normal girls in gay bars, there with a friend, and then there are the ones that are used to getting attention from men and can’t handle not getting it in a gay bar. Downing shows, Screaming “Wooo” every minute, demanding everybody “Look at me!”.

      Whenever they are in the bar I am figuring the bartenders know that they are going to be cleaning puke up in the bathroom sometime during the night.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DarkZephyr
      DarkZephyr

      I always enjoy a Chris Harder piece and I also love how he always generously illustrates his articles with pictures of his handsome self.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • derp
      derp

      So the point of this article is, straight women in gay bars are annoying, but so are gay men sometimes?

      I’m sure drunk, obnoxious people comes with the territory when stripping.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • lykeitiz
      lykeitiz

      Nothing is more grinding to the eardrums than the whining of a stripper. If he got off the pole & got a real job, he’d know the true meaning of work stresses.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoCagada
      NoCagada

      1. When you run around naked, you don’t get to choose who looks at you. It sounds like scantily-clad straight women complaining when a “perv” looks at them.

      2. I’ve seen plenty of gay guys act the same way towards straight men…”You know you want me”…so if staright women shouldn’t be allowed in “queer spaces”, what happens when straight people tell gays (and they already do) they shouldn’t be in “straight spaces”?

      3. This was one long article for QUEERTY. It didn’t merit the space.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dxley
      Dxley

      What the hell is a straight woman doing in gay bars anyway? I don’t even understand the gay men who are always around women. When I get married, I don’t want a f-g hag; I want a woman with female friends. If you want so bad to always stick around women and gossip together with them, why not just get a sex change? That way you can always be around them without embarrassing us guys!

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoCagada
      NoCagada

      @Dxley: ANd what the hell is a black person doing in a white restaurant? That’s about how stupid and hateful you sound.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DarkZephyr
      DarkZephyr

      @NoCagada: “2. I’ve seen plenty of gay guys act the same way towards straight men…”You know you want me”…so if staright women shouldn’t be allowed in “queer spaces”, what happens when straight people tell gays (and they already do) they shouldn’t be in “straight spaces”?”

      Sure you have. And if we buy that will you throw the Golden Gate bridge in for free?

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • rand503
      rand503

      Six photos of his abs? I think the article was merely a vehicle to promote himself.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • ppp111
      ppp111

      @Daniepwils:
      Well, if he’s working in a gay club, he has to expect that. If he was working at Chippendales, which BTW I know the format is different now so they may or may not take tips, he can expect that from female patrons.

      Personally, I agree with some posters about how some straight women act as if we should be lucky to have them around. Give me a break. Acting obnoxious and rude to everyone doesn’t make you an asset, it just makes you an ass. I think the problem is some of these straight women think they’re in a straight club that tries to entice them to come in so to attract male customers. Why can’t some of these women go to clubs they know will do everything they can to get them in? LGBT people should be able to have environments where we can be ourselves without straight people reminding us of how things are in society.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DarkZephyr
      DarkZephyr

      @NoCagada: “so if staright women shouldn’t be allowed in “queer spaces”, what happens when straight people tell gays (and they already do) they shouldn’t be in “straight spaces”?””

      Like you said, they already do. Our Queer spaces exist as a safe haven from that kind of crap. I don’t care if straight women or men show up as long as they are polite and not homophobic douche bags, but I can’t fault those who are not happy about it seeing as how we AREN’T welcome in straight spaces if we want to be open about who we are. Why are you being so high and mighty about it?

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Fvk847
      Fvk847

      This article is a little condescending…woman shouldn’t be in gay bars…so does that mean that gay people shouldn’t be a in straight bar…it doesn’t sound as ridiculous until its turned around.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 11:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • friscoguy
      friscoguy

      They act like they get a free ticket to be completely obnoxious and in everyone’s face once they pass a door of a gay bar. Once I was enjoying my apple martini leaning against the bar and 2 chicks plant themselves about 3 inches in front of me and start dancing and waving their arms in the air taking selfies several times almost knocking my drink out of my hand finally I put my arm up and told them to back away now.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 12:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Milk
      Milk

      @lykeitiz: Now climb down from your high horse and touch the ground. It’s really not that bad.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 12:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Can_lesbian
      Can_lesbian

      While there’s no mention of lesbians/queer women hanging out with their gay male friends and just enjoying being in a gay space (I love hanging out with my gay male friends in primarily gay male spaces), as a lesbian I do share your frustration with straight women not respecting gay/queer spaces. When I want to go to a gay bar, I’d prefer not to surrounded by straight bachelorette parties, which seem to be increasingly popular occurrences in the city in which I live. However, I do accept that a lot if gay bars need any kind of business these days in many places. It is important though to be welcoming to friends whoever they are. I have many close straight female friends and when they hang out with me and/or our gay male friends they are always respectful — like them, I wish all straight women and men would appreciate that LGBT people are not entertainment. Oh, and forgive me if I’m wrong, but for a bit of a reality check, you may find some straight women annoying but it still sounds like you feel safe. You don’t have to regularly deal with straight guys taking pictures and/or leering at you and you aren’t having to ignore “straight” couples who are out hunting for a girl to have a threesome with. Trust me, what you have to deal with is a piece of cake. When I was with my ex, (I am white and she is black) we always had to aware of our surroundings and be careful we weren’t followed by creepy straight guys who thought we were a porn movie waiting to happen. Anyway, all this to say I love gay/queer spaces whatever form they take.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      When I go out which is rare these days I love having straight women around. As well as every other kind. I like the Abbey and the bars around it which is notorious for it’s mixed crowds.

      Obnoxious people seems to be the main issue though. Not the gender of those at the bar.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 12:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pistolo
      Pistolo

      I find it very rude and impertinent when straight girls mack on you like that. Though I understand there is a huge imbalance with straight men and straight women, a woman still has more opportunities out in the rest of the world to be sexually aggressive. So I find it to be manipulative and objectifying for a woman to seek out gay men to persuade them to sleep with her. For all she knows, some might still be ashamed of who they are and will have sex with her to purge it. It’s hard enough being gay in a world that pressures you left and right to be straight, the last thing you need is a straight person in your gay sanctuary telling you face-to-face you should be straight for a minute with them to indulge their narcissism.

      Girls who want to slob all over their gay friends are unhealthy. And the gays who accommodate those blurry boundaries are in a kind of danger that I don’t think is frivolous or funny, I think it’s psychologically damaging. It’s so hard to get respect for your orientation and your identity, too many people think it’s a negotiation in a multitude of ways.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 1:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queenrosered
      queenrosered

      I’m sorry but I can’t even take this self-serving, self-promoting A-Hole seriously. As straight LGBT allies, my husband and I had a blast last year in a gay bar in Del Mar California, dancing with straight, gay, you-name-it people from every walk of life.We have friends from every walk of life and are richer for it.
      Hubby hasn’t touched a drop in 13 years and I drink very lightly. A gorgeous young G-string clad guy and an equally scantily clad beautiful girl danced on table tops and I “respectfully” added to BOTH their “banks” that night with nary a digital probe, lol. Beauty and sexiness knows no orientation.
      What I did NOT do was get drunk and obnoxious! People like that aren’t pleasant in ANY environment and I’m sure Mr.Harder knows this but that fact wouldn’t serve his agenda here, would it?
      As for why straight women go with other female friends to gay clubs, they ARE a lot of fun and there’s not much worry about getting hit on by some Neanderthal fresh off the farm. It ain’t rocket science.
      Show me a straight woman who has not one close gay male friend and I’ll show you a very boring/bored creature indeed(I have two gay BFFs and feel infinitely blessed!)
      Meanwhile, Chris Harder needs to try HARDER it seems, lol.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jar
      jar

      Bachelorette parties shouldn’t be in gay bars. Full stop. Non-gay/lesbian people should only come into our bars when invited (ie, when accompanied by a gay/lesbian person). There is nothing worse, for example, than a straight man trolling a lesbian bar; this is one of the reasons they sometimes feel the need to keep all men out (understandably).

      Jul 25, 2014 at 2:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Dxley
      Dxley

      See? Straight women continue to use you stupid fucks as fashion accessories and you tag along with all your nails done and shit allowing all that to happen. Why do you bother calling yourself a gay man when all you do is worship straight women — straight women who resent gay men for not sexually appreciating them?

      Straight women should know when to back off and let the boys enjoy each other and go back to their men. I don’t do guys who are women’s sidekicks; it just doesn’t appeal to me. He’s obviously know more about women’s fashion than he does about men, so why should I be with a man who chooses to live like a woman? I’m a gay man, and although I want to be married to a woman, I don’t want a man who’s a straight woman’s lapdog while I’m still seeing men. They can take each other and go shopping, leaving men to be men. We also don’t want them in the bars!

      Jul 25, 2014 at 2:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @Dxley: You don’t need a women or a man. You need a shrink darling.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 2:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queenrosered
      queenrosered

      @Dxley: “I’m a gay man, and although I want to be married to a woman”…….Dude…..WTAF?? *facepalm* Seek therapy,not attention!

      Jul 25, 2014 at 3:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @jar: Men are generally more aggressive and straight men in Lesbian bars need to be restricted to just friend invitation. There’s a difference between feeling threatened and just annoyed.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 3:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      @Dxley: said…

      “See? Straight women continue to use you stupid fucks as fashion accessories and you tag along with all your nails done and shit allowing all that to happen…..”I’m a gay man, and although I want to be married to a woman”
      _____________

      It’s always funny when people expose their massive amounts of baggage. The use of “You” rather than “Us”, “We” etc… is telling. Just another old throwback to the 1950’s. Enjoy pretending you are happily married to a woman while you desperately look for a guy to hook up with. How sad, wasting your life because of fear of who you are. Find a time machine the year you’re looking for is 1955.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • broadshoulder
      broadshoulder

      @QJ201: Agreed

      Jul 25, 2014 at 4:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • RIGay
      RIGay

      I use to frequent a male strip club in region here until I realized that several of the strippers used the women as shields to keep the guys away. The men were given a quick break in the fire line to shove a dollar in a boot then they were cut off. After two or three nights of the same crap, we stopped going.

      I think the club closed down a year or so ago.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 4:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jar
      jar

      @Stache99: Yes, but that difference is irrelevant to my point.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 4:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • DickieJohnson
      DickieJohnson

      For the past 45 years, I’ve NEVER come up with a truly legitimate reason why any woman should be in a men’s queer bar. EVER.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 4:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • jantheman
      jantheman

      wow maybe bars here are different but i have NEVER seen women behave as badly as the 2 or 3 gay men per nite do. MOST of these women are the socalled faghags that get used badly IMO by gay men. Happy to talk to her until they find a ride and a sex partner…always askin her for drink money (i will pay u back).

      if you can’t set boundaries with your women friends..i pity your gay relationships. and how many women really are in gay clubs? And if it is such a problem, then management is screwin up. Am not going to hate on my straight friends,male or female.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 5:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob91316
      Rob91316

      The problem I have with straight women in gay bars is that they don’t know how to hold their liquor. When I go to a straight or mixed bar, it never fails that all the drunk ass hoes staggering around the dancefloor will constantly be stumbling into me, stepping on my feet with their stiletto heels, and generally making unapologetic nuisances of themselves, which is a real buzzkill when I’m trying to enjoy a night of dancing with my husband. And for some reason it seems it’s always the straight girls who are the sloppiest drunks. Lesbians can’t hold their liquor either, but that usually leads to them brawling with each other in public, which is always entertaining. So the bottom line for me is this — I don’t mind straight girls coming to LGBTQ bars — as long as they stay off the dancefloor.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 5:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Matt G
      Matt G

      this article should have been titled “As a stripper, here are some people I find annoying”

      I don’t have any problem with straight people in queer spaces as long as they respect where they are at- and I find that most do. I can understand why a straight woman would have more fun at a gay club (I’ve been to a lot of straight clubs… and ugh…..). I really like seeing the straight girls that are having a meltdown because being pretty or having nice tits aren’t quite the golden ticket they usually are.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 5:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • LAguy323
      LAguy323

      Hopefully someday, if and when that woman ever has a boyfriend or husband– a hot gay dude will attempt the same brand of obnoxious aggressive grabbing on her man while she watches.
      These selfish bìtches need to stay the fcuk out of gay bars altogether.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 5:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Seth
      Seth

      So I take it Mr. Harder embarked on a career in stripping because he sought affirmation as a man and as a non-straight person? What a shame, since that scene isn’t really well known for offering any of that. I would describe the scene as one in which warm bodies with money come to get drunk and expose their fantasies. The strippers who enthusiastically and respectfully cater to those fantasies better than others, get paid more than those who don’t.

      Harder sounds like one of those high-maintenance prostitutes who babble on about their high standards and how they only work with clients who treat them like real friends, and make them feel respected and sexy. I won’t dwell on his clear misogyny, because I like an all-man space as much as the next guy, but remember gay bars are supposed to be, unlike straight bars, nondiscriminatory.

      I hope Harder works his way through his existential crisis without losing his job and his friends. He needs to remember that his stripping and prostitution are not real life. He’s an actor, on a stage made for his clients, and not for his pleasure. His goal isn’t to go home with his heart full of pride. It’s to go home with a pocket full of money.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 6:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ben Dover
      Ben Dover

      @Rob91316: Thanks for that! – I was hoping someone would bring up the drunkenness problem. The only thing you left out is, after doing all that, they barf it up!

      Jul 25, 2014 at 7:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lvng1tor
      Lvng1tor

      Str8 girls at gay bars have had too many of “their gays” (hate that….like we are there to be collected or serve at the pleasure of some insane woman at her gay zoo) encourage the behavior described above. I’ve stopped taking my straight female friends to the bars. They get too into it, often act as total c0ck blockers…I always get at least one drunk girl wanting to intro me to some guy she came with or just met and OMG gotta hook us up….but not leave us alone…then wanna know if you are heartbroken that it didn’t work out….I just don’t pay attn to guys with girls at clubs. Bars I’m there to just relax and conversation…that can be ok but not at a club. Ugh…the thought of sweaty milk sacks trying to press against me…ick

      Jul 25, 2014 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob91316
      Rob91316

      @Ben Dover: Yes, there is that too, isn’t there?

      Jul 25, 2014 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoCagada
      NoCagada

      @DarkZephyr: Evidently, you have little to no life experience. Ask mommy the next time you get on her computer…or tit.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NoCagada
      NoCagada

      @DarkZephyr: I’d rather be “so high and mighty about it” (you might want to find the real definition of that) than be the lowly, hateful waste of human space that you prove yourself to be.

      Jul 25, 2014 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ridpathos
      Ridpathos

      Good thing I kept reading. After you talked about the annoying hetero girl trying to jam things in your butt, I was going to ask if you seriously never had annoying gay guys do that too, especially at a gay bar. Turns out you had.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 2:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Ridpathos
      Ridpathos

      @Lvng1tor: I never thought of it that way. I’ve only ever gone to a gay bar once and only with a female friend to help my confidence. I didn’t realize that this probably potentially hurt my chances.

      Don’t need to go to one now, but I’d like to get the experience again just once.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 2:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chrisharderxxx
      chrisharderxxx

      @Seth @queenrosered @Can_Lesbian

      I never usually do this with my articles, but I would just like to point out that the title of this piece was NOT my choosing. I think if you actually read the article (like ALL the way through) it becomes obvious that I’m not lobbying for women to be banned from gay spaces at all. As I mentioned, I work mainly with women in much of my nightlife work and truly enjoy so. An audience member’s gender or sexual identity is NOT the problem; rather, the attitude and demeanor they exhibit towards a stripper/dancer/”nightlifer” etc is really the issue.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 11:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chrisharderxxx
      chrisharderxxx

      @Daniepwils: Actually, no, no I wouldn’t ; )

      Jul 26, 2014 at 11:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • chrisharderxxx
      chrisharderxxx

      @Kieru: Thanks for reading ALL the way through! XXX

      Jul 26, 2014 at 11:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gRapeHulk
      gRapeHulk

      Replace “gay scene” with “gamers” and this is why there is such a backlash against the “Fake Geek Girl.”

      Sure, there are plenty of gamers that just happen to be women but, without fail, there is ALWAYS a handful of girls with an unchecked female hubris that cause conflict in every gaming/geek circle they’re in by demanding that attention (so perfectly described of the white-blonde in this article).

      It always bothered me to find that a “no boys allowed” space is perfectly acceptable in our culture but women DEMAND inclusion in all male spaces (even gay males’ spaces) lest the “misogyny” accusations liberally fly.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kel777
      kel777

      I don’t mind women in gay bars as long as they don’t take over the damn place. I’ve always preferred the chatty bars to the meat market/dance club bars, but that’s me. I can see how having them in the meat markets would be a little miffing, and you seem to be the type, what with scattering naked photos of yourself pointlessly throughout your article.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 11:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • kel777
      kel777

      I have to say the people equivocating gay men rejecting heteros in our bars to heteros rejecting gays in theirs is absolutely ridiculous. Gay bars are OUR space we carved out to have maybe one little fucking corner in this shitty world where we could just fucking relax and be around others we could relate to. They were like churches to us. Heteros have everything else, enjoy it and shut the fuck up.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 11:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • allegiance2none
      allegiance2none

      I would see we should just reverse the trend and have straight guys go to lesbian bars but I think that’s not going to work. If any of you have ever gone into a lesbian bar before, you’ve undoubtedly encountered a stench that is beyond explanation. I have only encountered it there and for the life of me can’t tell you what this pungent sickening odor is. It is disgusting.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 11:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @kel777: In LA we have dozens of gay bars and clubs to choose from. I think there’s room for the straights at a few of them.

      If you want it to be all gay then head out to the Eagle or something similar.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 12:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Stache99
      Stache99

      @allegiance2none: Funny was just thinking the same of your trollish comment.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 12:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • francescamarie
      francescamarie

      @QJ201: I find that so strange. As a straight woman, who has been to gay bars just a few times (though I rarely go out anywhere), I feel like one of the biggest “pros” that other straight women I know like about gay bars is that we can just go and have fun/hang out, without being hit on… Plus in my book.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 12:55 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • manofhattan
      manofhattan

      @friscoguy: I had the same problem a few months ago at the Monster in the Village. Three times I asked a group of loud, drunk women and their male friends to stop leaning on me while I sat at the bar but they continued doing it so I stood up and forcefully pushed them away. A minor uproar ensued, bouncers arrived, and all of them were kicked out. It turns out this group had been unruly for a while and the bar was looking for a good reason to get them out – and I provided it.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 1:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • melodyvapes
      melodyvapes

      I am a bi woman who is in a completely committed relationship with a man (read: might as well be straight for the point of this comment) but I still highly enjoy going to gay bars/ clubs either with my friends, my fiancée, or even on my own. They just tend to be more fun than any other I’ve been to. I am not the type to over-indulge and rarely even hit the dance floor but the atmosphere can’t be beat. I do feel slightly judged for being a woman in a gay man’s place but honestly, I feel like as long as I’m not “that girl” as described above there shouldn’t be a problem with me going. I don’t know how to say that without sounding/ feeling entitled though. I mean, and I am genuinely asking, if you were to see a woman like me in a bar just sipping a drink and not giving any trouble would you have a problem with me being there and enjoying the night? I would actually really appreciate some insight on this because it’s a “blind spot” for me.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 3:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lvng1tor
      Lvng1tor

      @Ridpathos: It’s partly my fault too. I tend to be one of those very social extrovert guys so to the girls there I’m like a human glow stick…I’m also an old school midwesterner so I’m polite and and get myself trapped…usually by the “needy” girl. I like mixed bars but it’s fun to go to gay bars/clubs where you can be you and it’s completely cool. You’re young go out explore…..have fun…you can be pragmatic in your 40’s

      Jul 26, 2014 at 6:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Meb
      Meb

      Honestly, a woman bothers clearly in this type of places. Also, I completely respect the straight and bisexual people but if they want to do straight things they can (must) go to other places.

      Jul 26, 2014 at 8:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lorrish
      Lorrish

      Well, when it tends to get ridiculous, it’s time to back away.
      Oh, by the by, when you guys have a minute, would you kindly support and/or share my secret proposal scheme :D ?
      http://www.gofundme.com/gayparis

      Jul 27, 2014 at 3:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • michael mellor
      michael mellor

      On the straight scene, women tend to play these power games which are designed to put them in a position of superiority. From claiming to be horny to wearing tiny skirts, it is all a marketing ploy designed to sell themselves to men. They might occasionally get harassed by horny straight guys but they will accept it if there’s a reward, such as free drinks, at the end of it.

      These silly little games don’t work on gay men. Thus, women get angry.

      Jul 27, 2014 at 3:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • queenrosered
      queenrosered

      @chrisharderxxx: Thank you for being man enough to clear this up Chris. For the record, I DID read the entire article and it felt a bit disjointed in parts. You’re right though, in the end, it really didn’t sound as if YOU had a problem with women in general but with DRUNK OBNOXIOUS, entitled ones. But from the comments here, you can see that clearly SOME (insecure) men DO seem to have problems with any females in “their space” period.
      It seems as if there are basically two types of gay men when it comes to women…those who love and appreciate us and those who clearly do not. To those who DO like us and accept us (as another class of people who for so long have been kept down and treated as “less than”) just let me say I LOVE YOU BACK!
      To those who hate us for whatever reason, a big FUCK YOU.
      Good luck in all your future endeavors Chris. Maybe you can educate those that need it? ;)

      Jul 27, 2014 at 5:12 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • browngay
      browngay

      @queenrosered: ” But from the comments here, you can see that clearly SOME (insecure) men DO seem to have problems with any females in “their space” period.”

      Not wanting (straight)females in gay spaces is not a sign of immaturity among gay men but a strong assertion of their identiy.
      Straight people constantly tell gay folks (lesbians also but especially gay men) to stop being gay in their spaces bars, society etc.

      Asking for some space where gay men can be gay is NOT a sign of immaturity or hostility given what we have to face. in life most people mix in their own churches. evangelical predominantly go to evangelical churches, catholics to catholics and Buddhists to Buddhists churches. Gay bars are churches to gay people and no one should tell them otherwise.

      Jul 29, 2014 at 12:59 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • falenen
      falenen

      I don’t like to think of myself as a ‘fag hag’ as much as a homosexual supporter. That aside, I think everyone is entitled to their opinions (Lvng1tor, Ridpathos, skylerbound, Dxley) but I do have a strong aversion to any place restricting anyone based on their gender, race or sexual orientation. As much as I take my white friends to black clubs, my straight friends (men and women) to gay clubs and my gay friends (both men and women) to straight clubs. That’s just how I feel. I understand that sense of wanting to be around your own sometimes, as I am English/Bajan living in the US, but not if it involves being non-inclusive.

      That being said I was kicked out of a gay club in NYC once, for sticking up for my friend (who is gay) against the rudeness… actually down right offensive aggressive behavior of a straight bartender. It was all fun and games, jokes being made, etc. But I’ll be honest one joke the straight bartender made about me and his capabilities, didn’t sit well. I’m not a prude but ordinarily being that graphic would be a line I would usually feel shouldn’t be crossed. But to be fair I was with a bunch of blokes, mostly gay but one or 2 straight. Blokes are blokes.

      Truth is in a straight bar I would have “wanted to punch him” but shut up and moved on, but as I was with a group of much larger men who could beat the crap out of him, I let it slide. I was amazed what a difference that made. If he said that and I was alone or with female friends in a straight bar, I would’ve felt a bit of fear. Joke or not, comments that sexually aggressive are frightening to me. The fear just isn’t there for me in a gay bar. As the night proceeded, yes we were ALL very drunk, but by no means obnoxious. The bartenders mind you were sober, and again, predominantly straight. And my friend, who is a very quiet young man merely made a comment about one barman’s chest tattoo. Along the lines of “that’s a cool tattoo, man” which BTW was on display for all to see as he was in y-fronts and 70s socks! He was so mean and horrible to my friend, for no reason. It was like watching a member of the Jersey Shore verbally humiliate Michael Pitt! So I lost my temper, had a go, and the straight bartender called me a bitch so I used the “C word and made a comment about underwear packing.” So we got thrown out at his request and the doorman who I think just hated me in general and would have no matter what, couldn’t wait to sling me out. It was defo an odd experience that felt unfair, my friends were a bit pissed off too. And again a couple of these lads were big fellas, who’d been hitting the scotch. I left making wise cracks and told them to “calm down and it wasn’t a big deal I was knackered anyway.” But it was incredibly unfair. That being said I would do it again, anytime, any place. The day I let some frat boy talk to my mates (any of them) like dirt is the day you can deport me back to England!

      Aug 10, 2014 at 8:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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