Bathhouses became a popular hangout for gay men in America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when homosexual acts were still illegal. They saw their heyday in the late 1970s, with nearly 200 located in cities across the country. But by 1990, that number had been cut in half — the AIDS epidemic caused major cities to force the baths closed over health concerns. Today, less than 70 bathhouses remain nationwide, and the patrons tend to skew older. Now apps like Grindr and Scruff are only making them less popular among younger guys.
But that isn’t stopping the North American Bathhouse Association’s (NABA, yep that’s a thing) 75-year-old president Dennis Holding from giving up hope.
In a recent interview with Vice, Dennis discussed bathhouses of past, present and future. Here’s some of what he said:
On the atmosphere of clubs back in the ’70s:
How about we take this to the next level?
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It was a social place then. That’s what I believe our function is even today. Yeah, there was sex, of course, but the clubs we were building had swimming pools, gyms—they had a lot to offer. We have people who have been going to one of our clubs for 20 years, 30 years. It’s part of their social thing. There are plenty of people I know just by there being there so much. It’s part of their routine.
Why a bathhouse makes more sense than Grindr:
Let’s say you’ve met Sam Stranger online. That’s cool. You want to bring a stranger into your apartment? Maybe not. You want to go to his place, which is far out in Queens or wherever? Maybe not. But if you had a place to go on the East Side or West Side that you thought was clean and pleasant and welcoming, why not meet there?
What’s keeping the bath’s from reaching their full potential?
You can’t have sex on the premises where food and beverage are served.
Hmm. We can’t say we’re entirely convinced by Dennis’ arguments. To say nothing of the fact that most bathhouses are dingy, mildewy and smell like cheap lube.
You can read Dennis’ full interview, including the time he felt around in the dark and recognized an old friend via an unconventional handshake, on Vice.
Related stories:
Are Gay Bathhouses Going Extinct?
Bathhouses And Beyond: A Brief History Of Gay Cruising
PHOTOS: A Rare Glimpse Into San Francisco’s Infamous Fairoaks Bathhouse
Stache99
I guess it will all be determined by the newest generation of men. Where they go the rest will follow.
They’re going to have to upgrade with better service. They can’t get away with run down shit holes, treating customers like crap, and over charging like they used too or they’ll never again appeal to the demographic they want.
Stache99
The ones in LA cater mostly to the drug crowd. Of coarse that’s a very short term outlook. Lots of turnover.
Trippy
Bathhouses have their place in the same way that gay bars and adult bookstores have their place, and there will always be a certain percentage of gay men who prefer that environment. Good for them. With that said, online dating and computer hookup culture is now more appealing to the majority. Bemoaning that phenomenon is not unlike longing for the days of the horse and buggy.
Ultimately, the issue is about choice. Just because a majority is choosing to meet online doesn’t mean we can’t still have a limited but active bathhouse culture for those who enjoy it. There’s room for both, just focus on good customer service, a safe/clean environment, and make them welcoming places for all, and your bathhouse business will thrive.
Elloreigh
“Will Bathhouses Ever Have A Renaissance?” I’ve never patronized one and never had any desire to. Nor has any other form of anonymous hookup interested me.
But that’s just me. I look upon it the way I do many other elements of ‘gay culture’ that have nothing to do with my actual life and hold no interest for me – ‘Boring, next!’
No doubt others will have a different opinion, and they’re welcome to it.
Stache99
@Trippy: In LA they’ve all but lost the younger guys. Their solution is to offer anyone under 30 half off. Of coarse that’s discriminatory and is basically telling those over 30 your not wanted here as much. Not exactly a good long term solution IMHO>
reallygoodthings
Bathhouses are democracy in action!
RascallyBear
I went to my first bathhouse (in NYC) in 1977 when I was 18 years old.
Had a wonderful experience and continued to regularly patronize bathhouses.
I learned a lot about gay life, met an incredible variety of men, from all around the world- some became friends/mentors, regular fuck-buddies and romantic partners (several are still close friends).
I remained HIV negative and had no serious STD’s in all my years of bathhouse activity – it didn’t matter where I was having sex or the number of men I was having sex with, it was (initially)just luck that my favorite activities happened to be”low-risk”.
I always had the view that “if I was there, and I’m a interesting/ interested person – then many of the other men there would be the same”.
Thought it was a big mistake/ missed opportunity that in the initial AIDS panic, so many of these clubs were closed. They would have been ideal places to distribute up-to-date information and STD/HIV testing- I’m sure the men that used to patronize bathhouses didn’t stop having sex, they just went “underground” and off the grid.
Wondering if other men here have had similar experience with bathhouses…
Geeker
That kind of thing has never interested me so I don’t really care either way but I have heard most bath houses these days a kind of gross and attract a risky crowd.
Rickythomas
Bath houses will never go out of business, they just change their names. men’s private gym. their are not as many as there use to be but there are even bath houses for the homeless in L.A.
Billy Budd
Here in Brazil there are still some good, clean, safe bathhouses left. I had many adventures in one of them in Sao Paulo, during the early 00’s. Most of the people in there were closeted guys, so I never even tried to find a boyfriend in there. But I had a lot of fun.
Trippy
@Stache99: True! And as an older gay guy, I’m not all that interested in the under-30 crowd anyway. If these clubs really wanted to up their membership numbers, they’d offer discounts to blue collar bears, black Tops, and truckers… LOL. That’s the crowd I tend to look for online, so if someone would collect them all into one convenient location, I’d pay double to get in. 😉
Stache99
@Trippy: When I found out about this I was with a younger friend who found it quite amusing. Yeah, so damn funny. Ha ha.
Now mind you all the twenty somethings were chasing me that night..yet I have to pay twice as much for the honor of being in their run down sh*t hole. Btw. all the bathouses in LA are like that.
onthemark
All it would take would be a few high-profile Grindr murders. (Which is probably inevitable, unfortunately.) Bathhouses might start to look like a good alternative.
Paco
@Billy Budd: I was just thinking that as long as there are closeted guys, there would be bathhouses in business.
QJ201
The bathhouses in NYC were taken over by tweaked or cracked out barebackers over 15 years ago.
Management doesn’t give a crap as long as you pay and they don’t get shut down.
onthemark
@Paco: It’s just the opposite in the U.S., Paco, because bathhouses require you to provide ID. This alone keeps the married guys and closet cases out. (I like that!)
Billy Budd has told us often that in Brazil, bathhouses don’t ask for ID so it’s different there.
RSVP1056
They’re doing well here inSeattle. There are two for men, and one for women. I find that statistic very heartening. No, I don’t want a stranger in my home. No, I don’t want to go into an unfamiliar home of somebody who could be a homophobic ax-murderer, just so I can “maybe” get my rocks off before I become a sad statistic. It’s the last bastion of good, old-fashioned anonymous, casual sex left in the arid desert of what’s left of the gay communities. I for one am in favor.
onthemark
@QJ201: Well of course, no one EVER barebacks or does crack or meth AT HOME!
The anti-bathhouse bunch is always grasping at straws, and your comment illustrates that perfectly.
RSVP1056
@onthemark: That’s been happening int he past two years…so, old news. I’d be scared out of my gourd to even try that!
vive
@onthemark, well, the bathhouses in my city (in the US) have lots of married and closeted patrons.
vive
@Stache99, I agree about the quality of the facilities.
Steamworks in Toronto is very nice, clean, with great facilities and friendly gay staff. It also gets a lot of younger guys, so if you build it, they will come (pun intended). Maybe some Chicagoan can chip in regarding the quality and attendance at their franchise in Chicago.
Paco
@vive: I don’t frequent bathhouses, but have some friends that do. They always share their adventures with me which includes married men from time to time. Having Grindr on a cell phone is probably more risky for a closet case than showing ID at some unknown place that probably has an obscure name that looks like a gym.
Stache99
In LA they don’t spend a dime on renovations. Most are completely run down. Just BS like this to appeal to the crowd that will never be interested in the first place. Maybe if they were worth going to they wouldn’t have to resort to this BS.
bambamboom777
The advantage of a bathhouse is that you don’t have bring some stranger into your home or go into their home. And if it doesn’t work out you just go find someone else. You don’t invest all that time on someone who might be crazy or that you have no chemistry with or if it’s an online hookup, someone who could be lying about themselves, using fake pics etc. Also, since everyone is in a towel there isn’t a judgment on how people are dressed. Having a nice body though draws a lot of attention.
The bad part is that it can sometimes be a meat market where you’ll often get hit on by people you aren’t into so if you don’t like rejecting people it’s uncomfortable and some people are relentless if they like you.
After I went through a long term breakup I wasn’t ready to date and hate meeting strangers online, so I went to one a few times and found it to be as much about socializing as it was about sex for many people. A few were just there for quick sex, but others hung out and talked a lot. And yes, there will be a fair share of tweakers, especially early mornings. And a lot of older guys in the middle of the day. But after clubs closed at nights there were all types and all ages, many quite attractive.
As far as safe sex, you aren’t required to do anything you aren’t comfortable with and usually free condoms are provided. It seems like a lot of people didn’t even have sex at all or couldn’t get it up. It’s an interesting sub-culture, but don’t expect it to be like the set of a porno with nothing but hot porn models everywhere. Go in with realistic expectations and be prepared to spend some time if you’re picky.
vive
Grindr is a PAIN compared to the nicer bathhouses. You can usually someone hot in a bathhouse within 10-20 minutes, whereas via Grindr you first have to have unending chats with people who are already chatting with 20 other people at the same time. This can take hours – indeed a lot of people start chatting on Grindr already during the day to try to make plans for twelve hours later that night. Even a bar would be less work.
If there is no chemistry with the first person in a bathhouse, just stop and try someone else. On Grindr you need to start over with the endless chatting.
In a bathhouse it is easy to fall into the unexpected and delightful threesome or moresome, if you are open to that kind of thing.
No worries about bothering roommates by inviting someone over to your place.
No worries about having refreshments ready in the house, or having to wash the sheets after, or whether your place is a mess because you haven’t had time to clean yet this week.
No worries that people won’t look like their photos, or have mannerisms that turn you off once they arrive at your door. No worries about having to show unsuitable candidates away after they have traveled miles to your place, or having sex with them anyway because you feel guilty.
vive
@bambamboom777, yes, there are always free condoms within reaching distance, but what’s up with small packets of lube NEVER being available in a bathhouse (except sometimes in vending machines)? Spit only gets you so far. 🙂
Geeker
I’ve never been into the public sex thing and I need to know someone and be comfortable with them to even think about becoming intimate with them so the whole bath house culture is pretty much alien to me to begin with. I always say to each their own as long as you’re willing to deal with the potential consequences of your actions,I just don’t like it when I’m told I’m repressed or self loathing or trying to assimilate into straight society just because I’d prefer my sex to not be with a perfect stranger.
vive
@Geeker, that’s fine, but bathhouses are not necessarily “public” sex. Most have some public areas (except NYC where public sex in bathhouses is absolutely verboten), but most bathhouses have private rooms where in my experience most of the action takes place privately.
Geeker
@vive: Well,From what I’ve heard from other people who visit the baths,the public exhibitionism is part of the thrill for many.
Mike
I haven’t been to my local baths in about 2 years because most of the time (9 visits out of 10) I would just find myself walking around thinking to myself “if I was into out of shape older men this place would be great” -and I would usually leave shortly thereafter, load un-spent, and feeling infinitely less horny
nirofir
Bathhouses are still very popular – in Europe.
vive
@Geeker, sure there is exhibitionism, which is great, except in NYC where employees come around and yell at people who try it (Giuliani still rules there apparently).
But most sex in most bathhouses really takes place in private in the rooms.
vive
@Mike: “most of the time (9 visits out of 10) I would just find myself walking around thinking to myself “if I was into out of shape older men this place would be great.””
You must live in same little run-down excuse of a city I do, where everyone who had some ambition and could leave has left. Here it is different late on Saturday nights, when the younger in-shape guys visit after going out, but pretty much ONLY then. And it is very different in certain big cities I have visited, where you see lots of younger guys.
Jacob23
“Will Bathhouses Ever Have A Renaissance?”
A period in which art and culture thrive and the human spirit is inspired and uplifted? In bath houses? No. But the “North American Bathhouse Association” (lol!) can take solace that bathhouses have their own version of the Black Death.
tdx3fan
@vive: Steamworks in Chicago is quite nice actually. So is Club Ft Lauderdale and mostly the whole Club chain (even St Louis). There is a very nice bath in San Jose. Flex (all of them) is on its way out unless drastic changes are made. Baths have already underwent rerenaissance in the form that the quality ones are thriving and the cheap ones are dying.
tdx3fan
@Mike: Its alright, us middle aged fat guys have to much respect for ourselves than to be into you anyways.
seaguy
Wasn’t this story just posted a couple of months ago? This is just a rehashed version of that previous one. REally Queerty are you that desperate for things to post?
seaguy
Rehashed version of this post http://www.queerty.com/are-gay-bathhouses-going-extinct-20140828
vive
@Jacob23, no. “Renaissance” = the French word for “rebirth.”
And the black death? Now you’re just being dramatic, but in any case I doubt any more so than Grindr or internet hookup sites, given the prevention posters and free vaccination and testing clinics they provide.
Joe Eugene
SF thought it was a good public health move to close bathhouses in response to AIDS. I thought, and still think, it was a step backwards to close venues that could include showers and other sanitation facilities, STD testing and education, monitoring of behavior, chlorinated hot tubs to soak in, condom distribution, and more. By all means, pushing sex out into city parks and beaches is much healthier!
Ignacio Alvarez
I hope not!
Dev Russo
As rents continue to increase and men have roommates where they cannot meet to have sex, bathhouses will continue and thrive.
And… let’s face it, they are much cheaper than bars.
Vidontag
I love bathhouses. True, Toronto has a couple of good ones (Steamworks, Central Spa), and Montreal’s are crumbling but still have their rewards. I visited only once, but enjoyed Steamworks Chicago. The best gay saunas I’ve ever encountered have been in Europe: “Deutsche Eiche” in Munich, the Kaisberbründl in Vienna, and Paris has a great bathhouse scene. I think it says a lot about cities like Stockholm and Boston that they have none.
Jacob van Nieuwkoop
Bob Fazlali, the penis song
Dan Levin
Gross!
And instead of trying to find a place to have sex with Sam Stranger like the article says, why not take him to dinner and a movie like a respectable human being?!
Ruth Dalto
Take down site
Mac Daddie
Some have come back, hope to see more, provided they’re clean and promote healthy behavior.