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Will You Forgive Ken Mehlman Now That He’s Fighting For Marriage Equality?

Professional outer of anti-gay politicos Michael Rogers said that we should only forgive Ken Mehlman (the guy who helped spearhead the Republicans’ horrific assault on gay Americans in 2004), once he apologized for all his wrongdoing and donated a huge chuck of the money he made doing it back into the queer organizations he helped harm. Ken totally hasn’t done that, but he has been privately meeting with New York’s Republican senators to try and get them to support the Marriage Equality Bill. So, like, can we all be friends yet?

Mehlman says, “I’m hopeful and confident from the discussions I’ve had, and others have had, that there will be an up-or-down vote and that the vote will be positive because, again, I think that as people as look at this issue, they recognize that it is consistent with what their constituents want, most importantly, and second it’s consistent with the values they espouse and certainly many of the Republican stand for.”

Oh, Ken. Don’t you realize that public GOP faces like Michele Bachmann and Presidential candidate Rick Santorum continue insulting our very existence while opposing the majority of Americans who want legal equality for queer US citizens?

OK, OK… the Republicans also gave a metric shit ton of money to help sway New York in favor of marriage, but is that the result of gay Republican influence like Mehlman’s or just a stray pack of rogue elephants working against their own herd?

By:           Daniel Villarreal
On:           Jun 7, 2011
Tagged: , , , ,

  • 63 Comments
    • dancobbb
      dancobbb

      Please! Ken Mehlman will do whatever suits Ken’s wallet the best. Some people are so amoral and without a compass that they will represent any interest so long as it
      makes them money. Believe me, Ken is not looking for anyone’s forgiveness, ever,
      because Ken doesn’t care enough about anyone else on the face of the earth.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC
      robert in NYC

      As much as I despise what he did before coming out, I’ll forgive him although he should quit saying marriage equality is consistent with republican values. Since when? Wasn’t it their party that first introduced DOMA, swiftly I might add? I really believe these GOP gays are in denial about a lot of things. GOProud doesn’t even support marriage equality in its agenda.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      now let me see — the guy makes a career and fortune out of keeping us down… now wants to be seen as are saviour fighting for rights of which he will be a direct BENEFICIARY…that seems a win/win from his perspective.

      that’ll be a NO then.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      use him. then stab him in the back. he’ll understand — it’s *their* modus operandi.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Southside Shorty
      Southside Shorty

      Jesus Christ, the man does a 180 and is fighting for us, but all you nitpickers can do is dwell on his eeeeevil past. I sometimes wonder if Queerty doesn’t exist just to show the world what a bunch of catty little snipers the gay community can be — and guess what? It’s working!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • The crustybastard
      The crustybastard

      If by “forgive” you mean “invite him to suck a fart out of my ass” then yes, I forgive Ken Mehlman. A hundred times.

      Christ, what an asshole.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC

      It’s good that he is trying to make amends for the horrific bigotry he supported and promoted.

      However he does not deserve forgiveness until the untold damage he has done to the civil rights of his own community has been reversed.

      Forgiving Ken Mehlman at the present time is like forgiving a convicted rapist who donates some cash to a rape crisis centre.

      This man’s cowardice and self-interest are truly appalling.

      LIke I said it’s nice that he’s trying to make amends. But that doesn’t alter the FACT that through his actions the civil and human rights of his own community have been set back decades in certain states.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC

      Southside Shorty – you say : “the man does a 180 and is fighting for us, but all you nitpickers can do is dwell on his eeeeevil past.”

      Well what do you expect? He spent years actively damaging our legal and civil rights.

      You are right – he truly does have an evil past.

      I am willing to forgive him when the damage he has caused to the legal and civil rights of LGBT Americans has been reversed.

      Not before.

      That’s quite reasonable.

      Or perhaps if he donates every penny he has earned from his bigotted past to LGBT causes.

      Has he done that either – no of course not.

      Ken Mehlman is a grotesque Uncle Tom. A hateful man whose stupidity and cowardice has caused untold damage to his own community.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Geprge
      Geprge

      How can you forgive someone who hasn’t made up for all the harms he’s caused? How many other lives has he needlessly brought more suffering over the years, and how has reversed that suffering?! Those are the first questions you have to answer.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:44 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      (a) Supports anti-gay politicians on the right who wants to push through anti-gay bills. As bad as the Democrats are on our rights, they are not the one introducing, for the most part, anti gay bills.

      (b) He can read polls just like you can. He moved to do what he did after the lost of power under Bush, AND as the polling data was shifting in our favor as it has been since his hate legislation of only 7 years ago.

      (c) He works with a political group, if I remember correctly, that requires he has access to both parties. In Democratic circles, his access probably not as great. Guess what gets him in the door?

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • randy
      randy

      That’s a good question: will I forgive him if he fights for gay rights? One meeting with GOP operatives is a start, but it’s hardly a “fight.” When he starts fighting, the question becomes germane. Right now, it’s just a hypo.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      All that I list is currently where he is today. He came out without ever admitting he did anything wrong to the welcoming arms of gay white men who just want to be white men so its not a surprise all this is glossed over. He brings the sense of power and privilege that so many in the community crave regardless of the strings attached that I just mentioned.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • robert in NYC
      robert in NYC

      I understand the resentment towards Mehlman, but come on, guys. If more than 50% of the GOP by some miracle decided to support marriage equality given their appalling track record of voting against us on just about everything, you’d turn down their offer? I’d be pragmatic about it and take their offer in a New York minute.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 10:57 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC

      But Robert – Ken Mehkman is a complete nobody these days.

      His days of influence are over.

      Of course if the Republic**ts were to start supporting equality then I would support them. But the number of Republic**ts who actually do support equality is so small as to be effectively irrelevant.

      And ‘Iabusegays’ – you say: “He came out without ever admitting he did anything wrong to the welcoming arms of gay white men who just want to be white men.”

      Please stop engaging in racial stereotypes. You who are so super-sensitive on issues of race should know better than to make unfounded racial claims.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:07 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      In a word, “helltothemuthafökkinno!!” Ken Mehlman deserves public ridicule for attempting to jump on the bus after it left the station and he realized that if he wants any political credibility he needed to get on board.

      To late Ken, that time like the bus has already departed.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • David Ehrenstein
      David Ehrenstein

      A simple NO!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • CowboyPhD
      CowboyPhD

      “Forgiveness is a gift….you give yourself”. It is easier for the “victim” to forgive when the perpetrator is contrite. Ultimately, it is our responsibility to forgive those that offend us, so we may achieve greater self-esteem and fulfill our potential.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • christopher di spirito
      christopher di spirito

      Ken Mehlman is a turd. Flush.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Yul Brynner
      Yul Brynner

      Death to Ken Mehlman. Everyone wins.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 11:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • alan brickman
      alan brickman

      He opnly cares about his own rights…to your wallet….another promosexual…

      Jun 7, 2011 at 12:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tony
      Tony

      Hell no!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 12:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • gregger
      gregger

      @alan brickman: That!!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @SteveC: The gay white men that I am discussing who want to welcome this man with open arms are not entirety of gay white men. Nor do I claim that they are. Nice try.

      The sensible ones admit that there is something wrong with welcoming someone with open arms that has never atoned or apologized for his prior actions and who basically is using the gay movement now for his own personal gain. The question is “what motivates those who do want to support him regardless of who he is.”

      I advocate the Martin Luther King approach- judge people by their character. Why on that basis would anyone support this man? It is certainly not because he’s really for gay rights or that they have had time to see that he’s atoned. There were people support this guy the minute he came out without regard to his past.

      It was talking to gay white men who were not seeking this establishment type power that illuminated the issue for me. As I was told, it is about obtaining power for some, not equality. In America that power is mostly white and mostly male and all wealthy. That’s the reality. Its the same reality that causes Obama to pass the crap he passes. He wants to be in the club of the privileged too. There are some who look at this dude and think not of gay right first but of “wow I wish I had his life” so they forgive him without regard to what he’s done.

      I am not interesting in pretending a duck is not a duck.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Polyboy
      Polyboy

      No.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 1:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Elloreigh
      Elloreigh

      “Will You Forgive Ken Mehlman Now That He’s Fighting For Marriage Equality?”

      No. ’nuff said.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 1:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC [Different person #1 using similar name]

      Thanks for clarifying Iabusegays

      Jun 7, 2011 at 1:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Pitou
      Pitou

      Fuuuuck NO!

      Now, a video of him eating out Maggie Gallaghers stinky old coot might bring him sympathy points… but I really don’t think he can do anything that is worthy of “forgiveness”.

      He deserves to be stoned in a public forum, castrated, then lynched. By Old Gays. Afterall, it’s the older Gays & Lesbians he fucked more. The younger set WILL have what we seek within our lifetimes, our older Sistahs & Sisters might not.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 2:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Roman
      Roman

      Mehlman’s a coward and worse with no observable ethics or decency. He chose to stay silent when it mattered about being a Gay American. Silence = death. Off the backs of others who fought hard for equality, he emerges with millions to insulate him from the realities of what typical LGBT folks are burdened with. Bought to you by Ken and his Republican party policies and platform – oppression, violence, discrimination and persecution. He’s trying to wash his sins away with blood money. Good luck with that, Ken.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 2:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • NO FORGIVENESS
      NO FORGIVENESS

      Are you kidding? If you want “forgiveness” go blow a priest, otherwise, you can kiss my gay ass Ken.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 2:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TMikel
      TMikel

      Perhaps after 20 years of publicly and actively fighting for gay rights, AND using the money he got for screwing the LBGT community, I might be able to forgive him.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • timncguy
      timncguy

      So long as he still casts any vote for or donates $1 to any anti-gay politician, he gets no forgiveness.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 3:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Andy
      Andy

      His opposition to gay rights while in power is actually a small part of his crimes. You know, the Bush administration invaded a few countries, killed hundreds of thousands, and left us with trillions worth of debt. When is the apology coming for that?

      Jun 7, 2011 at 3:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Queer Supremacist
      Queer Supremacist

      @robert in NYC: If more than 50% of the GOP by some miracle decided to support marriage equality given their appalling track record of voting against us on just about everything, you’d turn down their offer?

      Of course not. Where’s the offer?

      Forgiveness must be earned. I will not even consider forgiving Mehlman until:

      A) Gays are 100% equal under the law.
      B) Homophobia is as damaging to one’s political career in BOTH parties as racism is.
      C) He is actually, demonstrably a part of making A and B happen.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      To form an opinion about Mehlman, it might be worth reviewing what transpired. You can find a summary at http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/08/26/ken-mehlman-manager-of-bush-cheney-anti-gay-2004-campaign-comes-out/ – it seems that Karl Rove was the guy actually behind the anti-gay campaign, and Mehlman surely had less clout that Rove. If Mehlman had simply refused to go along or spoke out against it, he’d have been replaced, possibly with someone with a real anti-gay agenda (Mehlman seemed to have more of a “save my job” agenda). Probably the best you could get is someone who would follow Rove’s instructions perfunctorily, but with no real enthusiasm, so the question is whether Mehlman did the minimum needed to avoid being replaced or whether he was more proactive.

      After the 2004 election, the Republican’s interest in its anti-gay agenda waned – there were more important issues. like making sure the people who really funded the campaign got what they paid for, and the religious right whined about being betrayed. See http://www.tnr.com/article/conservatives-get-taken-ride for a description of some of the whining.

      The whole thing stinks, but it is a systemic problem, not something one can blame on a single individual like Ken Mehlman, who seems to have been mostly covering his ass or grabbing the last life vest in a sinking ship when others needed one more than he.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 3:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • divkid
      divkid

      @B: ye shall know them by the company they keep.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 35 · divkid wrote, “@B: ye shall know them by the company they keep.”

      But then there is the saying attributed to Lao Tsu: “If a man is bad, do not
      abandon him.”

      Guilt by association went out in principle when we showed King George the door.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 6:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC [Different person #1 using similar name]

      If ‘Quisling Uncle Tom’ Mehlman now wishes to campaign for marriage equality then he should go right ahead. He should stay entirely behind the scenes however. The 11 states in which he pushed anti-equality measures will require years to overcome the damage he knowingly inflicted on their struggle for equality. The level of revulsion and disgust felt towards Mehlman because of his cowardice and hypocrisy is justified, considering the harm he has done. He should feel free to seek personal redemption behind the scenes. But public forgiveness will only be deserved when the damage he has done is reversed.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 7:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Steve
      Steve

      After a man tries to burn down my house, he doesn’t just ask me to forgive him. It doesn’t work like that.

      He has to fix the damage that he did to my house, first.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 7:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • tjr101
      tjr101

      Ken Mehlman can drink acid for all I care, he’s just another opportunistic, money grubbing, self-hating gay man that longs for acceptance from the establishment right-wingers … aka a GOProuder!

      Jun 7, 2011 at 8:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @B: I hate faux intellectuals, and, you are a faux intellectual. You are good at quoting a lot of shit to rationalize evil, which brings up the question- what are you exactly on the moral scale of right and wrong?

      Jun 7, 2011 at 8:49 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @B: @IAbuseGays: And by the way- this is not “guilt by association.” Your intellectual dishonesty is amazing. Its guilt because he was a co-conspirator. By your logic, one could never convict someone of aidding and abbeding a crime because that too is “guilt by association” Faux intellectual indeed.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 8:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @SteveC: No problem. It has been clear from day one where he announced and did nothing that there are those for whom he could have shot gays in the head, and they would have been whining “why aren’t you supporting him” By the way, this game is classic right wing politics. It happened with people of color. It is starting to happen with gays. Bring in folks who claim the identity of being gay, but like say GOProud on the substance are exactly the same as the oppressor. I’ve read GOProud’s writings, and I am hard pressed to see how exactly they are gay related in terms of rights advocacy at all since they claim none of the substantive rights battles is important. The best they can come up with is a right wing state’s rights argument that’s really about advancing their right wing rather than gay rights goals. I see this guy in the same light. That’s the sort of group that I am referencing. its very specific.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 8:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tim
      Tim

      no.

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • I.Love.Lisa
      I.Love.Lisa

      2 words: FUCK NO

      Jun 7, 2011 at 9:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      Re No. 40 · IAbuseGays, “@B: I hate faux intellectuals, and, you are a faux intellectual. You are good at quoting a lot of shit to rationalize evil, which brings up the question- what are you exactly on the moral scale of right and wrong?”

      It is obvious what you are – an idiot who lashes out at people becuase he doesn’t like being shown the facts. I didn’t “rantionalize evil” but rather simply pointed out that Karl Rove was more likely the real culprit. If you want to prove otherwise, why don’t you list in detail exactly what Ken Mehlman did beyond not opposing Rove. I.e., how many man hours did he spend working on an anti-gay agenda? Did he direct it or did Rove direct it? Did he jump in or did he tell Rove (more or less), “you know Karl, I’m really swamped with the fund raising and all the other details, and we don’t want to be sending conflicting messages, so why don’t you handle all the anti-gay stuff”?

      Had you bothered to read the link I provided, it clearly stated that “He [Mehlman] was aware that Karl Rove, President Bush’s chief strategic adviser, had been working with Republicans to make sure that anti-gay initiatives and referenda would appear on November ballots in 2004 and 2006 to help Republicans.” That fits just what I said, that Mehlman sort of ducked for cover, which BTW was in fact rather critical of Mehlman. It’s just that Rove seems to be the one who did the real damage. Both “presided” over an anti-gay campaign, but there is a difference between presiding over something by being on the top of the org chart and actually trying to make that something happen.

      Re No. 41 · IAbuseGays wrote, “@B: @IAbuseGays: And by the way- this is not “guilt by association.” Your intellectual dishonesty is amazing.”

      Rather it is *you* (IAbuseGays) who is showing an amazing level of intellectual dishonesty or lack of reading comprehension. I was clearly replying to divkid, who wrote, “@B: ye shall know them by the company they keep.” Divkid clearly was suggesting guilt by association, and I suggested that this idea had gone out of fashion some 200 years ago when we thumbed our noses at King George (a term some of us also used humorously to refer to George Bush).

      Jun 8, 2011 at 3:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • mr dave
      mr dave

      a snake is a snake is a snake. fucking republican.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 5:49 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Patrick
      Patrick

      It’s an attempt at redemption, and I am sure it is something semi heart felt, but the truth remains the same he won’t have redemption until he gives all he gained by harming others in mass, to undo the wrongs he did. Ken will only know love and be able to be truly happily married if he does this. He is a bright man, if he purifies his heart he can regain much wealth. I knew when all that started it had to be spearheaded by a gay man. He knew just how to shut us up, and we lost our voice. He silenced us. Redemption must be earned, and he is not earning it yet. I won’t give up hope on him or any other human, but he has a long way to go to find purity, and love. He belongs in a basement (ok some call it hell) with the other creeps far away from children!

      Jun 8, 2011 at 7:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Patrick
      Patrick

      @mr dave: Be careful that’s how they pull you in lol

      Jun 8, 2011 at 7:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chandler In Las Vegas
      Chandler In Las Vegas

      A Gay Republican is a Gay Republican is a Gay Republican…

      Jun 8, 2011 at 9:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • SteveC
      SteveC

      @B – your response seems to be saying ‘Ken Mehlman behaved like a spineless coward who was happily willing to throw his fellow gay Americans under the bus, to keep his own job safe’.

      Surely you must accept that this is repellant and cowardly behaviour.

      But let’s recall 1 important thing you’ve forgotten – Ken ‘Uncle Tom’ Mehlman has himself admitted that had he been out of the closet he could have lessened the harm his party inflicted on gay Americans in 2004.

      The man is scum.

      Self-serving, greedy, self-hating, homophobic, opportunistic.

      The damage he has inflicted cannot be forgiven, until the damage he knowingly and willingly participated in has been reversed.

      Mehlman is campaigning for marriage equality in his home state.

      Why doesn’t he sell his million dollar apartment in Chelsea and move to 1 of the 11 states he screwed over and donate the money from his Chelsea apartment to the equality cause.

      As I’ve said before I like Ken Mehlman to a serial rapist who has stopped committing rape and who thinks that supporting a rape crisis center absolves him of responsibility for his previous crimes.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 10:19 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @B: This is why you are a faux intellectual. You lack the basic reasoning skills that is required to understand that what you are describing does not help your position. But you seem to think that it does because you can quote from history. The knowing the quote does not help you understand what things mean if you can not or will not connect the dots of basic reasoning. As I said, by your logic, one could not be convicted as a conspirator or aiding the commission of a crime because they are not the one in charge. Did you disprove that point? You seem to think you did. Thus, why you are a faux.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 12:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @SteveC: B is essentially making the “he was just there to make the trains run” argument. Or to use a less charged comparison, “yes, he was in the get away car, and yes, he took some of the money from the robbery knowing that the money was stolen, and yes he saw the blood on the robber so he should have known of the murder, but he didn’t plan the robbery and he didn’t shoot anyone directly. So he has no culpability for the murder” Its a piss poor argument at best considering we would hold such a person culpable likely for what is called Felony Murder. In other words, we would not pretend in other context that such a person has no responsibility in the situation as B wants to pretend. Yet, here, because its a gay person and politics, we are to hold him to a less standard. By the same logic being applied here, it is clear we should hold Mehlman culpable for his actions. But, the main point since day one has to been to excuse this guy even when he had done nothing more than come out at a point where it no longer mattered. It would be like someone saying after the robbery that I describe above- yes, I am spending the money in a bank.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 12:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 50 · SteveC wrote, “@B – your response seems to be saying ‘Ken Mehlman behaved like a spineless coward who was happily willing to throw his fellow gay Americans under the bus, to keep his own job safe’. Surely you must accept that this is repellant and cowardly behaviour. But let’s recall 1 important thing you’ve forgotten – Ken ‘Uncle Tom’ Mehlman has himself admitted that had he been out of the closet he could have lessened the harm his party inflicted on gay Americans in 2004.”

      At least someone finally read what I had written – while I didn’t call Mehlman “a spineless coward” in those exact words, I did describe behavior that would fit that description: the only question would be whether he could actually have done very much to help.

      While he now says he could have lessened the harm his party inflicted had he been out of the closet, at the time he was probably too scared to come out, so it boils down to what I said: he figuratively grabbed a life vest to take care of himself while others needed it more: e.g., an excellent swimmer taking the last life vest while there’s someone else on that sinking ship who can’t swim at all.

      I don’t care if you want to berate him for being too timid, but it’s not like he was Karl Rove, who decided to make gays a human sacrifice to appease the religious nuts because those nuts are so gullible that they can be tricked into voting against their self interest.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 6:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 51 · IAbuseGays wrote, “As I said, by your logic, one could not be convicted as a conspirator or aiding the commission of a crime because they are not the one in charge .Did you disprove that point? You seem to think you did. Thus, why you are a faux.”

      Actually, that statement just shows that you really don’t know what you are babbling about. First, I asked you to provide evidence of what exactly it was the Mehlman did (was he actively running an anti-gay campaign or did he simply stay out of Karl Rove’s way, and how much time did he actually spend on anti-gay activities). You produced nothing. Since you can’t produce any factual evidence, I’ll assume you don’t know what you are talking about and are just ranting.

      Second, in an attempt at high-school rhetoric, you wrote, ‘Or to use a less charged comparison, “yes, he was in the get away car, and yes, he took some of the money from the robbery knowing that the money was stolen, and yes he saw the blood on the robber so he should have known of the murder, but he didn’t plan the robbery and he didn’t shoot anyone directly. So he has no culpability for the murder” Its a piss poor argument at best considering we would hold such a person culpable likely for what is called Felony Murder.’ The problem with your statement is that you haven’t shown that his behavior in any way fits that description. It could easily have been more like a case of someone overhearing a conversation between two co-workers planning on defrauding customers, and then keeping quiet because he was scared of possible reprisals. There are levels of culpability, yet for some reason you want to demonize Mehlman while giving the real culprit, Karl Rove, a free pass. Why is that?

      Jun 8, 2011 at 6:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @B: You are an idiot. And debating you only will make me dumb. For the record, denying an argument is not refutation of the argument. Your simply saying “actually your argument doesn’t prove that” without, disproving my argument is a waste of my time. And I don’t have to prove anything to you because you are one who has to explain yourself. You haven’t. You just ignore what you don’t like. I am going to take a lesson from you and do the same. I don’t like you. So I am going to ignore you.

      Jun 8, 2011 at 10:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 55 · IAbuseGays, acting like a child, wrote, “@B: You are an idiot. And debating you only will make me dumb. For the record, denying an argument is not refutation of the argument.”

      Fact: I asked you to produce a list of any anti-gay activities Ken Mehlman actually participated in. You came up with nothing. Yet you rant anyway, which makes *you* the real idiot in this “discussion”, and an ill-bred one at that. Meanwhile, I provided links that seemed to indicate that Mehlman was more of a bystander who simply ignored what was going on when he could have done something to mitigate it (it’s not clear if he could have stopped it given Karl Rove’s clout in the Bush administration). Doing nothing is something he probably feels guilty about now, but it is not nearly in the same class as what Karl Rove did.

      As to your claim that, “denying an argument is not refutation of the argument,” what I actually did was ask you to produce real-world data about what Ken Mehlman actually did. You know, produce some numbers like how many man-hours, if any, he spent on anti-gay activities. That would seem to be pretty germane to the discussion: if he worked 25% of his time on that, I’d criticize him as much as you are, but I haven’t seen any data showing that he did. He did reach out to various minorities (web sites I checked mentioned Blacks in particular) and apologized to those minorities for past Republican practices of ignoring them. My guess is that he’d have done the same thing with gays if Karl Rove hadn’t decided to target them (or should I say, “us”), mainly because he was obviously trying to get as many new Republican voters as he could, and he started with Blacks because they represent a larger number of voters.

      Meanwhile, you are completely silent about Karl Rove, who apparently made the decision to target gays in order to get out the religious-right vote, knowing that this group tended to vote more for Republicans than Democrats. Why are you silent about Karl Rove? Are you afraid to answer that question? Mehlman probably thought it would be like fighting Darth Vader (Rove sort of reminds me of “Darth Vader without the mask” in the Star Wars movies – similar pasty, puffed up face), so Mehlman’s imagination possibly got the best of him and he chickened out. Too bad and nothing to be proud of, but that doesn’t make Mehlman “Satan incarnate.”

      Jun 9, 2011 at 1:09 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheRealAdam
      TheRealAdam

      @B: That dude has serious problems, B. He whines and complains like a petulant child, and then when he doesn’t get his way, he calls you names and then ignores you. Check out some of his other posts on Queerty and you will see why he’s not worth the effort. He’s just some pissant little black dude with a chip on his shoulder, who hates white gays.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 1:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • TheRealAdam
      TheRealAdam

      @TheRealAdam: Rather, he *tells* you he’s going to ignore you and then argues with you again on some other post because he can’t resist spewing nonsense.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 1:51 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      If I wasn’t sure that you were a troll personality, Adam showing up confirms it.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 1:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • IAbuseGays
      IAbuseGays

      @B: One clear sign you are a troll is that everyone else gets the logic but you. I am not appealing to popularity there. I am pointing out they understand the logic of the argument being made. Yet, you persist in pretending that you don’t. Good luck with that.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 1:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Beulahmo
      Beulahmo

      *Forgive* him? What the hell for?? Look, if he wants to work for marriage equality, I encourage him to go for it. He doesn’t need anybody’s “forgiveness” to do the right thing. Besides–it’s WAY too soon to be talking about whether or not he should be forgiven. If Ken really wants to make up for his cynical, exploitative, selfish, indefensible past behavior, he can work long and hard to try to undo the harm he actively participated in promoting. AFTER he’s proven himself trustworthy, folks might be ready to show homeboy a little forgiveness. But I don’t think he should be looking for it any time soon.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 4:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 60 · IAbuseGays wrote, “One clear sign you are a troll is that everyone else gets the logic but you.”

      Still trying silly name-calling and still making factually inaccurate statements? “Everyone” seems to exclude http://www.queerty.com/will-you-forgive-ken-mehlman-now-that-hes-fighting-for-marriage-equality-20110607/#comment-454053 (Adam’s comments about you) and of course you have no idea what most people “get” as most people who read the comments don’t post anything.

      I think TheRealAdam is right about you.

      Jun 9, 2011 at 8:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Drew
      Drew

      never in a million years

      Jun 24, 2011 at 10:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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