Carol, a 43-year-old old mother of two living in the U.K., is pissed. Not only did the man she marry turn out to be gay, but now people are calling him an “inspiration” and a “role model” for coming out after spending his entire life in the closet. And she’s not having any of it.
“I was disgusted by this,” she recently told the BBC, “that someone actually considered him to be both of these things when he had spent our entire relationship lying.”
Carol continued: “To me, there is nothing to be proud of. He destroyed our family through his failure to admit that he was, in fact, gay.”
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Carol and her husband were married in 2003. She says they were “very happy and in love” and even produced two children together.
Then strange things started happening.
About six years into their marriage, she found gay dating profiles on her husband’s computer. When she confronted him about it, he explained them away. Then, in 2009, he finally told her he was bisexual. A year after that, he came out as gay.
“I thought my whole world had fallen apart,” Carol said, “but then he came back and said let’s stay together for the sake of the kids. I didn’t know what to do so we lived a lie for two years. To anyone else we looked like a normal happy couple.”
After giving it the old college try, the pair finally decided it was probably best to dissolve their union and go their separate ways.
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Four years later, Carol still isn’t over everything that happened.
“For me it is a trust issue,” she said. “How can I trust anyone again? I can’t compete with other men. I’m a woman. But he should have been truthful from the start.”
“It would have been easier if it had been a woman,” she continued, “at least he would have loved me in the first place. He says he loved me, but I don’t believe him.”
And as for other gay men considering marrying unsuspecting women, Carol had this piece of advice:
“You have to be honest with yourself and your partner, especially when kids are involved. Not knowing your own sexuality and taking time to decide hurts everyone involved. Be true to who you are.”
What do you think? Is Carol being too hard on her ex-husband? And is it possible that he did love her even though he is attracted to men? Sound off in the comments below.
Adam Rash
I think she has a right to be upset and I’m a gay man. An unfortunate byproduct of someone not being true to themselves.
Xzamilio
Coming out and the stigma of homosexuality is something that many of us have had to deal with, especially growing up in staunchly homophobic environments where this stuff is ingrained in our minds. But, with that said, she has every right to feel the way she does, because even if her husband had this monkey on his back and fear public humiliation and ostracizing, he dragged her into his lie, which was wrong. I have no room to judge anyone, but it does not sit well with me hearing these stories of people having families and coming out years later, while some of us applaud them and expect the spouse to magically come around and applaud them. It’s beautiful when they do, but if they don’t, can you blame them?
Richard Holaday
He lied, pure and simple, how is a liar considered a role model?? ð???
badtungsten
@Xzamilio: I feel the same way. It must be a horrible predicament for these older men to be in and I feel badly for them, but their coming out now is not victimless. Decades of lies would be detrimental in any relationship, but especially in these cases where the woman feels like her entire adult existence was a fantasy.
Bob LaBlah
I really do see her side of the story. She LOVED him. Had two kids with him and now she has to deal with the REALITY of his being able to divorce her to MARRY his lover (though the article doesn’t say this it is a possibility she has to face). Wow!
Ladbrook
Here’s a headline story we won’t see over in Tony Perkins Land:
“Gay men should come out and marry other men so that women like this will never accidentally marry a closeted gay man…. who, by the way, was closeted mostly because of me and my allies.”
The anti-gay crowd can’t have it both ways. If they keep fighting against SS marriage and demonizing gay people, then THIS will continue to happen. Hopefully, at some point, it will happen to one of their daughters.
Mike Hall
Well, if they wouldn’t shove their religion down everyone’s throats, this probably wouldn’t happen so much. Personally, I think it is justice for a society that fails us as a whole
Cagnazzo82
Her husband is a cautionary tale. Not an inspiration.
McShane
Yikes. Does staying together for the kids ever work? Sounds like a highly toxic environment.
AtticusBennett
actually, he didn’t destroy the family. anti-gay prejudice did.
i know so many couples who married, had kids, and then a partner came out. while a divorce occurred, in NO WAY was the family “destroyed” – as all members love each other, understand what the formerly-Closeted member was going through, and still love each other as a family.
i know too many couples like this. who maintain terrific relationships with their ex, and remain terrific parents to their children, despite having divorced and Come Out.
at present, it is not the husband’s being gay that has torn this family apart, but the ignorance about the pressures of homophobia and The Closet- plain old anti-gay prejudice.
it’s not too late, though. everyone needs to get to a PFLAG meeting. healing can happen. and the family can be mended. i’ve seen it so many times.
Regina Allen
I don’t blame her for being upset but everything about that is sad. I believe he loved, probably still loves, her. He was able to have kids with her, after all, and if he is not attracted to women, that really takes some care. It just isn’t the love they both wanted it to be. It sucks but the society in which we live encourages this behavior, especially from men. Some cultures demand it. I would like to hear his story, from him. I think she has every right to be upset but she could also be understanding. What was his family/life like, before he married her? What made him decide to marry a woman and father children? There’s too much left out to really pass judgement on this. I know that people can be irrational when very emotional, and this would be a devastating thing…
Kevin J Desmond
Oh so she’s pissed … honey get over it, why should he or anybody else for that matter have to live his/her life a lie. He’s gay fine ain’t nothing you can do about that, move on get a divorce find somebody who likes women. Why should he have to stay with you if he wants to be with another man and the same go’s for a women who’s a lesbian. GET OVER IT ALREADY YOU DON”T OWN HIM !!!!
edtaylorky
You’ve all said it well!
What a tragic turn of events that ultimately stems from systemic homophobia.
Some groups tells these men to get married to women and that their sexuality is a choice–of course stuff like this happens when we ignore research because of bigotry.
I feel bad for all involved.
gaym50ish
I have known many men in his situation, especially among older generations, and I don’t think he should be condemned for not coming out sooner. For reasons that have to do with religious upbringing, having homophobic parents, living in rural America, etc., it is not easy for some guys to admit — even to THEMSELVES — that they’re gay. Some think they’ll be “normal” once they settle into a conventional marriage, but they discover the feelings don’t go away. And after having a couple of kids, it becomes even harder to come out because they don’t want to be the cause of a family breakup. So they meet guys in secret.
According to statistics from the Family Pride Coalition, 20 percent of all gay men in the country are in heterosexual marriages, and half of all gay men have fathered children. You know this is true because you’ve met these guys “cruising” or in a gay bar when they’re away from home on business travel. It is not at all uncommon. Mormon men grow up being so indoctrinated into the “family” lifestyle that one gay ex-Mormon told me he had lots of “doorbell trade” from Mormon men who were married. They were not open to a gay relationship — it was just sex, and they went back to their families satisfied.
Instead of feeling betrayed, this wife should be glad they had some happy years together and that her husband finally came to grips with his sexuality. And she should visit http://www.straightspouse.org and join the Straight Spouse Network.
tford216
He alone is responsible for his actions. There are many gay men who lived an honest life and never lied to women. They are true men. The people who lie to others, mostly in order to have biological children and then suddenly come out are ridiculous as are the other gay men who support them. I am all for gay pride but when your gay pride treats them tragic coming out stories as something to be hailed or attempt to shift the blame on society it gets ridiculous.
Odysseus
Both of these former spouses deserve compassion. Likely both suffered/are suffering…
The simplistic assumption was that the LGBT spouse was consciously ‘in the closet’, living a lie or deliberately deceiving his straight spouse is ignorant. I’d venture that’s the exception. More likely, the LGBT spouse genuinely entered their marriage with genuine love and commitment (even while neither spouse recognized a lacking depth of eros).
Disassociation can be a powerful psychological defense and leave an LGBT individual unaware/unconscious of their sexuality. But it’s admirable when an LGBT spouse ultimately acts with integrity and courage to: 1) overcome those defences and become self-aware; 2) liberate their straight spouse, so they can pursue a more fulfilling relationship; 3) honor their responsiblities to any children; 4) honor their former relationship.
The best advice for this lady is to get some therapy…
Odysseus
@tford216: Empathize much?
GayEGO
It is sad for this woman and unfortunate for this man because our society caused this problem a long time ago by treating LGBTs as monsters which is why gays stayed in the closet. I did not tell by mother and two sisters that I was gay until I was 50 years old. Fortunately, my father had passed away and I believe he really would have been upset. Because people were taught that we were monsters, my family did not connect me to a monster so they never thought I was gay. They even met my lifetime partner of 53 years when I first met him and they did not think he was a monster.
Sean Burwinkel
When someone is confronted with a painful truth or suffers a catastrophic loss, rational thought takes time. And four years probably isn’t long enough for her to hit that stage. Eventually she will realize that both of them are casualties of an unfair world and what he did was not done out of any malice or ill will towards her. He probably felt like it was all he could do. And I don’t doubt that he loves her. He may not be IN love with her, but he definitely loves her. You can’t spend ten-ish years with someone and not care deeply for them. I only hope that they can eventually reach a place of mutual understanding and that she can trust again and find love and be happy. Him as well.
rob_rush
I don’t think it’s possible to overstate how much societal and religious pressures can push an otherwise honest and open young man into self-denial and lying to himself and others. That was me. I honestly thought all would be well when I got married. It wasn’t – I still was very attracted to men (duhhh, right?) and so I sought counseling. i finally came out to myself and then to my wife. That was 9 years ago. We decided to stay married, and I have gay friends and understanding straight friends who I can talk to about things. I’m not sure if we’ll stay married forever but here we are. It’s pathetic, and if I had it to do over again I’d not put her (or me) through this. But I can’t waste my life feeling guilty and I don’t have a time machine. I doubt the judgmental commenters have lived perfect, regret-free lives. If they have, good for them. The woman in the article deserves compassion…I understand her rage. I’ve seen it. But so does the man who finally decided to live authentically. It’s sad all around. I hope they can get past the hurt and anger.
Arcamenel
I’ve never understand how quickly gays are to applaud a man who does things like this. They hurt so many people by lying for so long. I’ve always believed that if someone wants to stay in the closet for whatever reason, do so but do not involve people in your lie. Don’t let women fall for you, marry them and then leave them with a mess like that. It’s cruel and it’s wrong.
enfilmigult
“You have to be honest,” etc., is easy to say when you don’t run any risks for being honest about it. He didn’t do this because he’s just a lying liar and that’s how they roll, he did it because he was afraid to do anything else. I mean, this was years before gay rights made their sudden convulsive leap and a world of options opened up to him for married life with children.
Can’t blame her for being too close to this to (want to) really understand it, but I think that’s the situation. It’s going to be tough for her to ever see this clearly, and not just as something that was done to *her.*
SnakeyJ
The headline is wrong. She’s not disgusted that her husband is gay, she’s disgusted that he’s being held up as inspirational and a role model. There’s a big difference. The editors need to be more careful.
james_in_cambridge
I’m with her too…she has every right to be pissed.
Atldeuce
I agree. She is a victim of someone who lied to her for years. Since he had gay profiles dating back years ago, he certainly knew he was lying to her and himself, plus maybe putting her at risk of stds. True, it may be hard to deal with these issues, but he owed her honesty.
Odysseus
@enfilmigult: Right, I’m with you. Gay marriage was granted a blink ago… and suddenly we’re in a post-homophobic culture? I think not.
Mixed orientation marriages will continue to occur – along with job discrimination, salary discrepancies, LGBT youth homelessness, hate crimes and suicides… Western society is generally headed in the right direction (currently) for LGBT dignity and equality. But just 40 years ago we were all considered mentally disordered (DSM), we’re just 25 years from the AIDS crisis… So are mixed orientation marriages from those generations surprising?
Even today religions, familial cultures, isolated communities’ values all continue to impact on LGBT journeys towards self/societal acceptance.
Applaud those who are out more easily/readily sure… But after our own experiences being LGBT among a hetero majority – are we so heartless to judge others that met struggles battling their culture indoctrination, inhumane treatment and internalized homophobia?
constantlyAmazed
As someone who went through this same situation, from the coming out side, I do not look at myself as a role model, nor do I want/need any praise for my “courageousness”. I made the choice to drag my ex into this situation, had the requisite 2 children, then made a mess of everyone’s lives when I was discovered. Yeah, I wasn’t even man enough at the time to make the declaration myself.
I fully understand and validate this woman’s anger and disillusionment. I am lucky that we made the decision to co-parent our kids, and that I wasn’t kicked to the curb or out of my children’s lives. I made the commitmentafter this happened to be a parent first, and a gay man second, as that is what I signed up for in the first place. Thankfully my kids are awesome and accepting, and the ex and I are on civil terms, but I’m sure that in the back of her mind, every time we have a conversation, there’s “that bastard and what he put us all through by not being a man”. Cut the lady some slack, her husband should have had the balls to be honest in the first place. That’s my biggest life regret.
Realitycheck
She has every right to be upset, her entire marriage and a good part of a life was a lie,
I hope her life gets better from here on, but the best years of her life are behind her.
SFHarry
@Kevin J Desmond: Your response seems one dimensional. There is real damage let behind when a partner is not truthful at the start and then reveals something that would have been a great help for the other party after some major life decisions have been made.
This woman made some very important life decisions based on this guy’s omissions.
At some point you must get over it but your admonition sound very heartless and seems to assume only the gay man must be right.
tford216
@Mike Hall: Is it justice for the woman involved. Are gay men not required to be decent human beings?
tford216
@enfilmigult: How is life any more valuable than hers? The problem is not that gay men need to be out or what have you but it is the damage they do to the partners involved.
Joe Eugene
I heard exactly that from a woman when I was in a triangle with her and her bf in college. She wasn’t angry, just resigned, or maybe accepting. FWIW, she kept him as her bf until they went their separate ways and he married somebody else.
Odysseus
She’s suffering and needs help from a therapist to reframe her experience – she experienced love and commitment, started a family, etc.
Willfully ignoring the factors involved in how mixed orientation marriages occur or are reconciled doesn’t erase that complexity. In all likelihood the LGBT spouse entered this marriage with honorable intentions, entered fatherhood with the same… And later, gradual or sudden, became aware of his sexuality.
Does that make him a liar? Any more than the hetero man that knows he likes variety but thinks marriage will keep him on the straight and narrow – and habitually ends up cheating?
Marriages end when a spouse falls in love with another, grows into a different person or otherwise. In these circumstances does society judge those marriages having been ‘lies’ after they end? No. Even chronic hetero cheaters who father children outside don’t have their marriages rewritten like this…
Only mixed orientation marriages are considered despicable ‘lies’ with the LGBT spouse at sole fault. This judgment is wrong. Moreover its a reflection of a homophobic culture – and those declaring judgement here are blindly spouting homophobia.
tford216
@Odysseus: It is sad that you will come up with anything to evade culpability for this man’s acts. He likely knew that he had same sex attraction, he likely married her thinking that she could cure him or that it would go away. When he did not disclose that he had same sex attraction he took away her choice to consider not marrying him. It would be different if he told her. But he didn’t. The gay men who marry women are not the victims just like the straight men who cheat on their wives are not the victims. No one has ever said that a straight man who cheats is victim or needs to be celebrated for accepting that he cannot remain monogamous. When will society not be culpable for an individual’s choices. Gay marriage is now legal. So is this the point when we say that is not okay to be a liar?
Odysseus
Here’s another way to look at this dispassionately: marriage is a social/legal contract. A myraid of circumstances lead to divorce, or the end of these contracts.
Divorce law is focused on equitable settlement with both parties able to move on with their lives (ideally) – after cancellation or reorganization of any remaining marital duties/obligations. Most legal juridications have adopted ‘no fault’ divorce in recognition that the reasons for a divorce don’t matter in settling that contract – including mixed orientations.
Arguably, most moral/ethics systems are aligning with this approach as well. You’re no longer ex-communicated for divorce, prevented from remarrying, etc.
Those judging the gay ex-spouse here admirably have strong individual moral/ethical beliefs… But again, this woman needs help healing. Amplifying her suffering by validating her martyrdom and anger is doing her no good – regardless of your personal judgment.
Finrod
If I could come out in a small town in the US in 1972, he could do it in the UK in 2003. It’s not like he was living in Uganda.
tford216
@Odysseus: No fault divorces should only exist when there is truly no fault. You entering into a marriage knowing you are gay or even bi and not disclosing this to your partner sets the marriage up for failure and lays the blame and your feet. There is actually fault to be attributed here.
Odysseus
@tford216:
Neither of us know whether this marriage was entered into genuinely in good faith or with knowing deceit.
Not all mixed orientation marriage start with a lie nor is anyone served having these marriages judged as lies after they end – especially where children are involved. Would you negate the bond that created the two children and call those children the product of deception? Sounds awefully like a Catholic annulment…
Lastly, I’m not calling anyone a hero here – but the spouse that honorably acts to end an unworkable marital contract with integrity is indeed admirable vs those that choose to consciously prolong everyone’s suffering…
tford216
@Odysseus: Why should we look at it dispassionately? Dispassion in this case is another word for sociopath. A commenter above stated that he was the gay guy in the marriage. He at least takes blame and has regret for what he has done. He does not show dispassion. That seems to be the problem with a lot of older guys who get out hetero marriages. There seems to be this underlying misogynistic thread that sees women as object and disposable and that is not cool.
tford216
@Odysseus: The lady is 43 and this is probably the worst time for her to be set free. This is when all the insecurities about aging and all that pop up. Most mixed orientation marriages end because the gay partner decides that their needs are more important. The assumption that we have to make is that the lady entered into the marriage with good intentions. Why would you be so desperate to make her complicit in this? You are not dispassionate about this. You are clearly pro-gay man come out and forget the scorched earth that you leave behind.
tford216
@Finrod: Thank you. I could not live with myself if I entered into a relationship with a woman. Either I was so disconnected from her that her feelings didn’t matter and therefore there is something wrong with me. Or I really hurt my friend who believed the lies that I told her.
Odysseus
@tford216: Yes, I am absolutely and unequivocably supportive of the LGBT spouse coming out in a mixed marriage and ending it. How could you not be? There is no other way for all of the individuals involved to become healthy and have hope for fulfillment. And 43 is not the end of life, unless you’re Jenna Maroney 🙂 It’s sad that these marriages occur at all and that they cause suffering. But I disagree its a selfish act to divorce in these or other circumstances where spouses can no longer create a loving, sustainable relationship. That’s not scorched earth but new ground for growth.
tford216
@Odysseus: We agree about the divorce I think it is is necessary but I hate the fact that we gays tend to celebrate these men as if they are heroes and the women are kinda left pick up the pieces and only seen as hero if she welcomes the man and his partner to thanksgiving with minimal or no fuss. I have a lot of female friends and if guy did this to them he would be scum not my next possible date. Every coming out is not a celebration and I would think twice about dating or dealing with anyone who could lie to his partner for several years (straight or gay).
Giancarlo85
I don’t support these guys. They are liars and cheats. They should have been honest to start with or at least tell the truth. This husband was dishonest in 2003! That wasn’t 1953 or 1973, but 2003! Now the kids are going to suffer because of the dishonesty. I don’t support such liars.
jessi1
@Kevin J Desmond: My younger brother married his high school sweetheart and they stayed married a couple of years, before she came out. It turns out she was a lesbian, and it devastated my brother. He became an angry alcoholic and still has lots of issues today, 11 years later. He was really in love with her. I think it’s fucked up that someone could live a lie like that and ruin someone else’s life. I’ve always known I was gay since I was young and I’m sure his ex-wife always knew she likes women. I didn’t act like I was straight and court women, because I was true to myself and I didn’t want to lead them on. This women has every right to be pissed.
Odysseus
@tford216: Many of us are rejected, abused, vilified as a result of coming out. Why? We cause fear and suffering: in our families that didn’t want an lgbt child, in friends that are uncomfortable with gender nonconformity, to those that believe being lgbt conflicts with their religion or values… By living as ourselves we cause suffering. Yet as LGBT we respect individuals who come out in recognition they’ve stepped onto the path of living true to their natures. I agree coming out in a mixed orientation marriage does not make the man a hero and demands a compassionate response for the straight spouse. But its still too hard and it still causes too much suffering all around to call those that come out in these circumstances ‘scum’. Undoubtedly they caused suffering but the straight spouse also has a choice in their response – as do our families, friends and wider society.
Giancarlo85
I fully respect and honor those who come out to be honest to family. But to proclaim you love someone of the opposite sex, marry that person and raise children… and then to live a lie. That’s beyond certain perimeters. Coming out to family is one’s own business… but once you build a life with an opposite sex spouse and have children that’s an entirely different matter.
Roberson Randy
At least she knew off the bat that she couldn’t compete with other men. Just like a gay man can’t compete with straight man’s woman. Get it together people!!!
tford216
@Odysseus: “Undoubtedly they caused suffering but the straight spouse also has a choice in their response – as do our families, friends and wider society.”
What should the straight spouse’s response be? I think that you as a gay man and even I (because I seem to sympathize more) have a lot of nerve to even began to prescribe how the straight spouse should respond. Their trust is violated and not by a mere friend and yet they should forgive the spouse because the spouse had what you deem a good excuse for being a scumbag i.e, lying because duh duh society. Again there are individuals who lived a gay life without involving others. And you talk about the children aspect. I think it is cruel to forever tie yourself to someone who you know you really can’t love on the level that anyone deserves. I am watching show now about a transgender woman who came out to his wife and they are doing the reality show for their son “Becoming Us”. It is painful to watch the wife endure the narcissism put on display by her former spouse. The now transgender spouse had the audacity to ask to be called mom. The wife handles it with as much grace as you can expect but I am angry for her. And she is in her late 40s and early 50s. And the probability of her being okay (healing) and maybe finding love is small. I get it you love gay people because you feel you have to. I love all people and my gayness doesn’t color right v. wrong.
Will Glitzern
I knew for sure that I was gay when I was 14, and I never got involved with women. I have to be careful not to criticize those who take longer to figure things out, especially when kids are involved.
Wil Cohen
I feel bad for anyone in her situation. Being married to a closet case is hell. I’ve seen it first hand. My father put my mom through this and it wrecked our family.
Barb Kipper
Unfaithful nessis everywhere, so MOVE ON.
Timothy Herbert
Her issues are her own.
Merv
They were married in 2003, not 1953. The UK in 2003 was not an anti-gay hellhole. There was really no excuse for dragging this woman into a dysfunctional relationship by lies and deceit.
Scott Haltom
This is what people over here don’t understand. When someone comes out early no one is hurt, but when society forces you to marry and have children, then everyone gets hurt. It is very hard to come out and have to deal with all the hate by everyone with few to turn to.
Saint Law
@Timothy Herbert: Wow that’s…mind if I take that down? Such profound insight! You should write a book. Or teach philosophy.
Michael Hunter
jason smeds
Carol’s husband appears to be bisexual, not gay. I wouldn’t be surprised if referring to him as “gay” is the rationale that she and her husband use to reflect the fact that she could not accept that he has same-sex feelings. Generally, women find it offensive when homosexual feelings exist in men who are also attracted to women.
There is definitely a double standard in this regard because men often accept wives who have same-sex feelings. In fact, some women fake their bisexuality in order to appear “hip” and “cool” to their husbands.
jason smeds
When Carol’s husband was having sex with her, he was very heterosexual. He was engaging in a heterosexual act. There was nothing fake about his interest in her. Men can’t fake their erections and ejaculations.
Therefore, to say that he was “gay” is pathetic. It’s a pathetic and illogical conclusion drawn by queens who think that being gay is a lifelong identity that no one can deny. Puh-lease.
Memo to the gay community: you’ve manufactured your identity in the hope of convincing people that any man who has any sexual feelings for men must be “gay”. Well, you’re wrong.
jason smeds
The great fear that women have is that their husbands and boyfriends will turn to men. This is described in the Bible as “men turning away from women and instead burning in their lusts for other men”, or words to that effect. The real fear is therefore of male bisexuality – in other words, the male option.
What the gay rights movement has successfully done in recent decades – and indeed one of the main reasons for its success – is that it has made male homosexuality seem harmless to women. How has it done it? By reducing it to a segregated, territorial and “you can’t turn gay, you’re only born gay” notion. It has thus de-bisexualized the notion of male homosexuality, thus shrinking the extent of male homosexuality in the wider community.
It has basically shrunk itself into a small, albeit powerful, ball. Here’s a metaphor: tigers are normally threatening to people but if you put a tiger in a small territory with a fence around it, it becomes amusing and people go and see it.
Shrink yourself, make yourself seem harmless to the general population and women specifically, and people will smile at you – the most brilliant strategy of any identity movement ever in the West.
Bauhaus
@jason smeds:
“Shrink yourself, make yourself seem harmless to the general population and women specifically, and people will smile at you – the most brilliant strategy of any identity movement ever in the West.”
More like your own strategy for getting by, you obsequious pasty twat.
Giancarlo85
@jason smeds: You have a great fear of women and hate them. You especially hate women in a position of power because it diminishes your already small manhood. You are so icnredibly full of shit and your rants are predictable and disgusting.