BY THE NUMBERS — “A study of 2,500 gay and bisexual men claims that almost three-quarters of them would refuse an advance in medicine that could change their sexuality to heterosexual. … Whilst 26% of those surveyed admitted that they would take a ‘straight pill’, if such existed, almost three times as many men (74%) had no desire to alter their sexual preference.” The survey was conducted by ManCentral.com, a dating website, and probably a decent place to find guys who really, really like being gay. [Pink Paper]
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Anti-Gay Laws Lead to Higher HIV Rates, And 4 Other Studies Leading to Fake Conclusions
Baxter
I’m more surprised that 74% of gay men wouldn’t turn straight if they could. I don’t mind being gay, but I don’t think I’d say no to having an easier, more accepted life with more rights. If people with brown eyes were the only ones allowed to get married, I’d totally take the pill to change my eye color.
Fitz
Not me. Being gay is wonderful. I am with someone I love, I have great sex, and I have enough time and money to be a wonderful uncle. If I were straight I would probably have kids in college by now, and that’s fine– but that position is already filled by many of my peers. I cherish my role in my family. Plus I don’t have to touch vajayjays.
DR
“plus I don’t have to touch vajayjays”?!?
Are we 10?
Tom D Frog
I would like to see the reverse happen. We need more people to be Gay not straight. The Human Population continues to grow at an unsustainable rate. More Homos equals fewer kids and better population control. That in turn reduces the need for industrial farming which does more to destroy the atmosphere and our water ways than all of the machine exhaust combined. Fewer people starve to death. Fewer wars. etc.
We would reduce the alarming number of children 5 years and up cast out into the streets to forage and fend for themselves like animals. If straights did have kids they could not care for, there would be plenty of childless, warm and loving homo homes happy to care for the child.
Of course, Organized Religion would die as a result. Not that I would shed a tear. Think about how hard it is to convert someone to a different faith. It is far easier to breed followers than convert non-believers. Just about every faith in one way or another pressures their disciples to reproduce OFTEN! That is how they increase their numbers and get them closer to their goal of World Domination.
Lastly, I would like a pill to make straight men gay so I can meet Mr. Right! Straight guys have no DRAMA!
t.
Soylent Diva
They probably would since it would free them from the bigotry, harassment and all-around torture that homophobes inflict on them. These are the same people who stay in the closet all their lives or submit to “ex-gay” therapy in their attempts to please people who only “love” them when they’re playing straight.
El Brucio
In my teens to my early 20’s, my closeted self would have leaped at the chance to take a pill and become straight. I didn’t know anyone who was gay, and there weren’t any positive gay characters in the media.
Now? Well, I really like being gay. But I can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted by a pill that could make me bi. For some reason women have always found me more attractive than have men, and it would make having children that much easier.
Mike in Asheville, nee "in Brooklyn"
Since Mancentral did not include any information about how their survey was conducted, it is essentially meaningless. I found two articles about the survey yet there was no indication that how Mancentral gathered its data.
For me, I can’t think of any time where I would have desired to not be gay; certainly not after having had sex for the first time!
Cam
There is NO way I’d become straight! Could you imagine trying to learn how to deal with dating women now?!
Hi God, thanks for the meal, I’d like an extra helping of the “Being Gay” to go please!
asa1973
Don’t know if I would take the pill. But being gay (and black and raised as an American muslim by former southern baptists AND from Texas) has given me a perspective in life that I truly cherish. I know I am more tolerant because of who I am. Taking that pill would make life easier, but I’m not sure my life would be as rich. Nah…I wouldn’t take the pill.
alex
The link listed above provides zero details of this “study”. Social science research can easily become useless unless you use proper methodology. Since there is no explanation of who these 2,500 men are (demographics), where they were found (sample), or what they were asked (question validity), the only thing we know for certain is that 26% of these gay men would want to turn straight.
How ironic that Queerty would report this. After all, seven days ago, they wrote:
“journalists should question data and methodology before repeating faulty conclusions about current research”.
http://www.queerty.com/anti-gay-laws-lead-to-higher-hiv-rates-and-4-other-studies-leading-to-fake-conclusions-20100401/
Roger Rabbit
Yes Alex!
Even the comment did not make sense that this site would attract gay men happy with themselves – LOL
1 – From MY experience, these smaller social networking sites advertise in a way that will find more closeted men. Let’s ask Gay.com and you’ll find a different number, and if you ask Recon.com you’ll find the number at less than zero.
2 – It took me YEARS to accept myself due to my being raised in a conservative home, and during that process I would have taken that pill in a heartbeat!
3 – But it’s a GREAT advertising gimmick for the website that did this “survey”.
Magmo
I think I have to agree with those men who don’t want to change orientations. Obviously it would make several things easier if I were straight. I think that the process of figuring out what I am, accepting that, and coming out has made me a stronger and, dare I say it, a better person. To choose to change would be to dishonor that process.
Plus I don’t have to touch vajayjays.
Sammy
Obviously if you took the pill, you would WANT to touch vajayjays. Duh. It’s a little hard to be truthful when one is faced with doing something repulsive like sleep with women. However, if I look at it objectively, I think I’d take the pill. Not only would I get to take the sensitivity and tolerance and kindness I think I have as a gay man to a world with less discrimination and a generally easier life (in my view), but I’d get to have kids and not want to vomit sleeping with a woman I cared about to do it. Ha. That isn’t to say I’m unhappy being gay. I’m perfectly content and would rather take a pill to convert than to have been born straight. I think I’m a very different person emotionally speaking than I would be having been born straight and I appreciate that. But I also find women tend to be more attracted to me (and more reliable frankly) than gay men. Not to say I don’t do fine on my own, but girls would marry me if I weren’t gay. 🙂
That said, this survey, even if accurate is silly. There is no pill. And I’m perfectly okay with that. I wish however there was a pill to make my cute straight guy friends want to sleep with me.
Matt
I’d take it in a heartbeat. I just hope they have this before I die so I can have some semblance of a happy life.
Jason
???
Jason
@Matt: Really? You are sad.
MickW
I would take it because as a black gay man there are just more black women then there are out black gay men.
fuzz
@Roger Rabbit: “Even the comment did not make sense that this site would attract gay men happy with themselves – LOL”
Dude, the whole point of that comment was to acknowledge the bias of the sample.
Alejandro
@MickW:
this makes no sense to me. so because you’re a black gay man you can only date black gay men? I can understand if that’s your attraction, but the way you worded that statement seems to imply that’s your only option.
As for the question of turning straight. Hell no. First off, I’m 5’4″ . . . so no woman would want me (but I tend to do just fine with men). Secondly, I live in New York City and I really don’t see the difference between gay single life and straight single life. It pretty much sucks for everyone. I also don’t really want kids and it’s easier to be childfree if you’re gay. If you’re straight and childfree your family will hound you mercilessly for grandkids.
Chopsie
Not NO, but HELL NO. Will this pill also make me a sports-lovin’, beer drinkin’, titty-bar goin’, misogynist jackass? Most of the things I see in straight men make me want to gag!
David in Houston
I probably would have taken the pill when I first realized that I was gay, and was completely isolated from the rest of the world. But now I’m married to a great guy, been together for 15 years, and the thought of not finding men attractive is unthinkable.
@Matt: Don’t give up hope. It IS possible to have a happy life as a gay man.
biguy
I like the sex aspect of being bi but it makes relationships difficult. I still wouldn’t take the pill. It might make things easier in some respects but it is society that needs to change its orientation to LGBT people, not the other way around.
Cassandra
“Whilst 26% of those surveyed admitted that they would take a ‘straight pill’, if such existed,”
It makes sense that on any given day, about 1 in 4 gay men are experiencing or have experienced enough anti-gay harassment to make them want, at least at that moment, to be heterosexual.
TomEM
@Cassandra: “It makes sense that on any given day, about 1 in 4 gay men are experiencing or have experienced enough anti-gay harassment to make them want, at least at that moment, to be heterosexual.”
Excellent point!
Jaroslaw
I would take it. I’m not the most attractive which is what you have to be in the Gay world. For the most part. Gay men want nothing to do with me, but I get hit on by women all the time.
Sorry guys, but it’s the truth.
Qjersey
Okay Mr. Editor, so where is the snarky comment about research now?
hmmm?
tricky
I love being gay, took me a while to get here. But now that I am here, I’m staying. I do fret that one day, they will discover some sort of gay gene or something and will start giving people the option to “de-gay” their children.
Fitz
And how many of us have straight friends who smile, shake their heads, and say “I wish I was gay” after telling you about the 3 hour fight that they had with their girlfriend over using the wrong towels, or not washing out the sink?
DR
I don’t think I would take the pill, but I naively hope that this could be a wake up call to the gay community that it’s time to grow up and stop acting like high school kids. I know the straight community has the same issues, but when many of us hail from small towns with few gay social outlets (while straights have more), the high school cliquishness all too common among gay men is really awful.
Henry Holland
Give up sucking cock? Hahahahahahahaha, yeah right.
Baxter
You all fail at thought experiments.
Ken
I sometimes feel the same, Jaroslaw. But you know what’s funny? If we were straight, who knows if the women that hit on us now would be attractive through our straight guy lenses?
Ken
Tricky, if they could do that, then I imagine that option to ensure that a kid is gay would be possible as well. It would be up to gay men and lesbians to work that out..lol
AlwaysGay
I’m gay and loving it. Where are the gay scientists working to make sure two gay men or two gay women can procreate? Are we just waiting to be exterminated? Don’t trust haterosexuals, there is a millenia long history spanning the globe of anti-gay oppression. Just because Will & Grace aired on national tv doesn’t mean haterosexuals want us. Where are the gay scientists looking out for our safety?
Arkano18
I wouldn’t take the cure, cuz I just love the way I am. And that includes gayness.
Steve
I have a 20-year investment in a relationship. Why on Earth would anyone think I would want to give that up and start over?
Perhaps someone who is young and single would want to start over. But I think most people have invested considerably in their relationships, whether they are monogamous or networks of friends.
Lucas
I would because I want to have kids and live within the tenets of my religious beliefs. Since I cannot have sex with the same sex without committing sin, I must be celibate now.
Tylertime
I would take a pill! I would take 20 shots in my stomach if it would make me straight. I have been out for 18 years and my Mom was right when she told me my life would be harder. I’m a nice guy, successful, bright and attractive, but I never have luck with guys because it seems they always want “Mr. Perfect”. There isn’t much room in the gay world to be average in looks. Based on my straight male friends and the women they have married I know if I were straight I would have a smart, nice, attractive wife. I can’t get the equivalent in male form.
Dan
I would rather take a “bi” pill. More options.
Michael
You know it’s all really great for us to get on our gay pride floats and scream “I’m proud to be gay” but you’re only fooling yourself if you wouldn’t live a life void of hate and discrimination if possible. Sure, some of us live in cities where being gay is no big deal and others of us may act “straight” which only means we have to live in a closet. However, there are many of us who deal with the bullshite society dishes out on a daily bases to the LGBT community and I, for one, would love nothing more than to be able to stop being ostracized for being gay. However… being straight would mean jumping through endless hoops to end up getting one hell of a lousy blowjob so…….
jj
I don’t get it. It says “gay and bisexual men.” Why would a bisexual man need or want to take a “straight” pill? Aren’t they by definition already fucking women? What’s the problem? Doesn’t say much for their “bisexuality.”
Fitz
@Tylertime: Is it just possible that the problem is you, and not the entire gay population? I can’t stand how so many gay men think that gay men are exclusionary just because the hottest of the hot don’t want to hang out with us average Joe’s. Ever seen how an average Joe gets treated by a hot chick? I’m honestly not trying to be mean, but if you can’t do a relationship as a gay man, there is no logical reason to think that you could as a straight one. The problem is your relationship skills, not the shape of the genitals that attract you. The good news: this is entirely fixable, unlike the magic nature of this question.
DR
@Fitz:
I always chuckle at how some will always assume that it’s gotta be the guy tired of the games and drama who has something wrong with him instead of being willing to acknowledge that our community has issues. With limited dating pools and small numbers, it can be a lot harder to be a gay man trying to find a date than a straight man, especially when your sole outlets are bars or the internet.
Does that mean some of us don’t have baggage? No, I’m not saying that at all. But let’s also be realistic about our community, shall we? You get guys who have been confused for a significant part of their lives and maybe didn’t learn the dating and social skills other men did, and then we just expect them to come out and everything will be hunky dory. While none of us expect a grand coming out party, not all of us have access to the resources you’ll find in larger cities, and expecting that we’ll be able to jump right in and be perfectly fine without having been socialized in the dating world first is kinda laughable.
So you learn these skills where, then? Oh, right, you just hope that you’ll find acceptance and friendship in the anonymity of bar and internet culture.
Jon
I would turn a few guys gay if I could, but I wouldn’t want to change so I don’t get it.
chris
it all depends on when you ask, if you asked me when I was 14,15 or hell maybe even 16 I would have said ‘yeah, turn me straight’.
If you asked me now at age 18 though, I’d say no way! I’m finally comfortable with myself as a person, I have someone I love..why would I wanna change now?
D'oh, The Magnificent
No. For the simple reason is that being gay is part of who I am. It is like asking me to take a pill to no be male or black or to have a do over with my past. None of those things appeal to me because I always realize that it means I would cease to be me. I can not imagine not being me. The lessons I have learned. The things I have seen. Do I have regrets in life? Do I want more than what society is giving me? Sure. But, those are different questions about changing immutable qualities of what makes me who I am.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@DR: Since other people I know have long term committed relationships and are gay, the assumption that it is just the person would seem to make more sense than what you will probably retort back “that it’s not true that there are gay men in long term committed relationships.” The reality is that we all make our own lives. Anyone going back to wallow in a statement from his mom 20 years ago probably has spent the great bulk of that 20 years wallowing.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@DR: by the way, your relentless need in article after article to pick whatever position you think is attacking gay people tells me there is either something wrong with you or you are here with an agenda outside of whatever is being discussed.
Tylertime
@Fitz:
When I see most straight average guys they tend for the most part to be with attractive to pretty women. Women value more qualties than the physical. Physical looks seem to be the main priority for most gays and don’t tell me that hasn’t been yoru experience. Even average gays seem to be looking for the best looking guys. I notice it at the gym, at bars, on the street etc. Joe average will pass and I will smile or make eye contact and I’m invisible to them. A “Mr. Perfect” walks by and all heads turn. Many average guys don’t bother to look at other average guys.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@Tylertime: How much money do those straight average guys have? You know nothing about hetero relationships. You are idealizing them because you aren’t in one.
AlwaysGay
@Tylertime: Typical response from a gay man who doesn’t want to do any work attracting gay men. If you worked out your prospects would increase because many gay men like muscles. If you are not into muscular men then try a different route, you only need one man to have a relationship. BTW, over 70% of heterosexual males in this country are single and around 40% have never married.
Wade MacMorrighan
Honestly, I believe that the number of gay or Bi men who want to turn str8 would be FAR lower if they realized their own ancient and once-powerful history! We were the shamans, and the High Priests, and the dignitaries of our communities! We were highly venerated and revered as being sacred or special, as gifts from the gods. Sadly, VERY few gay men, and almost NONE in the heterosexist world, is aware of this. Hell, how many men reading this post were aware of our once-ancient prestige? (Though, the Chuckchi shamans still revere their Gay tribes=people.)
tjr101
A few years earlier in my life and I would have taken the pill, but as I’ve grown I cherish what it means to be gay. Being a young black male is already tough, to add gay to the equation well your looking at mental illnesses, lol. Being gay gives you a more compassionate and understanding view in life and you’re better able to relate to the disadvantaged in our society. You see things from a broader perspective than a straight male.
If I was straight I most certainly would have been married by now because thats how it’s been in my family (many of my relatives get married in their mid to late twenties and the marriages last). Women always give me more attention than men (sucks big time). In my teenage years when I wasn’t out I had relationships with girls that involved everything except the sex. Many of them now know why.
If you had asked me ten years earlier I would have taken the pill without hesitation. Now I’m just loving my life!
gilber
i’m a gay scientist in computational neurology,guys, we gotta know one thing, sexual attraction,sexual excitation and sexual consumption toward anything that has a different morphology (heterophilia) constitute in itself sexual deviancy and inversion.this is the physical, not the social one.the social one is the one that psychologist,theologians and some philosophers invented, in order to create the illusion that any masculine male who consume and is willing to feel other sort of body parts and nerves will not feel like a woman.this allows them to feel as close as possible to the nonrelated contrary sex and feel they have a connection or extension with the other sex nervous,muscular, and endocrine system.they pretend or fake a non existing sexual belonging. they create non physical definition as labels and make them appear to be realistically true, such as real men,macho etc.what we are observing in this society is blatant sexual inversion and deviancy,you only need to see the physical characteristics of the male and female coupling,for you to realize that what they truly are in front of a mirror is two different non related sort of morphology internal and external,physical disparity when coupling carries a prize,such as sexual deviancy,sexual inversion,pseudo-hermaphroditism,pseudo-homosexuality,pseudo-bestiality,pseudo-sexual belonging,pseudo-naturalness,pseudo-masculinity,and the list goes on ,because what is inverted physically is inverted all the way up to the very cognition level.this is the reason why two sexually dimorphic pair call themselves a “couple” when they should be called an anti-couple,real couples have the physical condition of parity,isomorphism and co-essentiality.they have the same structure,composition and function,this is a naturally made binary relation and a genuine sexual belonging results as a consequence ,any other form of coupling is a SOCIAL(not natural) belonging or interaction due to the presence of sexual dimorphism,if the degree of sexual dimorphism where so high that they could not even know whether they are of the same specie or not,then everything would be more physically evident.if you truly believe that doing oral sex to a woman and sensitizing your senses and spinal cord to be receptive to other non typical nerves or organs not found or made by your own(masculine) body is a masculinization think twice.the expression make me feel like a woman is a powerful tool for sexual inverts(heterosexual females) not to feel (masculine-like).in fact you could jokingly say that you don’t know, who make who, feel like a female. if the male to the female or the female to the male ,i guess they are both making each other feel like a “woman”.but according to physical properties and mechanism,it is the woman(female) who is teaching the male how a woman feels like(lesbianism) and the male is teaching the woman how males feel like and what they are made of,it is basically a learned,adopted and fabricated sexuality, and a stubborn wishful thinking trying to belong as much as two equivalent sex couple naturally do.
Cornell Beltcher
Okay for one even if there was a pill for those who would take are only cowards looking for an easy way out, i am 19 and been gay since preschool i always known i liked guys.
Of course i faced and will continue to face discrimination behind who i am but i am proud and wouldn’t have it any other way. also let me point out someone here just said if there was a pill for brown eyes if only brown-eyed people were allowed to be married then i would take one.
people get plastic surgery because they want to fit in, like come on people we are all different for a reason no one should ever wish to be anything but who they are as of now and embrace that.Life isn’t About trying to fit in just to get rights.
Stranger
For the record, I love being gay. It’s not an easy life but in many ways I’m far more liberated than a straight dude to simply be myself instead of having to fit some mold of heterosexist masculinity. And I say this as a pretty masculine man in the traditional sense.
Though I have to say, I am really saddened by some of the other comments I see on this thread, as well as some commenters need to denigrate women. Why does a declaration of your love for who you are have to be coupled with gross statements about women and women’s genitals being repulsive? If it weren’t for women and the women’s lib movement, we wouldn’t be anywhere near where we are today. Consider that next time you decide to make misogynist statement, fellas.
Lee Martin
@alex:
Glad to see you all found the research so interesting. For the record, when we released the data also explained how our research was conducted, however if a website chooses not to include that information then that is there choice.
You can find details on our blog http://www.mancentral.com/blog/post/2010/04/07/Would-You-Take-A-Straight-Pill.aspx
Or I can explain here,
ManCentral has over 144,000 members who are gay, bisexual and bicurious males. We set up an optional poll on the site asking members simply ‘Would you take a straight pill if one existed?’ with the options of ‘Yes’ or ‘No’.
Members who respond remain anonymous however they provide demographic data such as their age and sexuality (amongst other things). So we actually surveyed 2,552 of our members over three days.
So your concerns of question validity, sample and demographics are hopefully laid to rest.
😀
Man Central
@alex:
Glad to see you all found the research so interesting. For the record, when we released the data also explained how our research was conducted, however if a website chooses not to include that information then that is there choice.
You can find details on our blog http://www.mancentral.com/blog/post/2010/04/07/Would-You-Take-A-Straight-Pill.aspx
Or I can explain here,
ManCentral has over 144,000 members who are gay, bisexual and bicurious males. We set up an optional poll on the site asking members simply ‘Would you take a straight pill if one existed?’ with the options of ‘Yes’ or ‘No’.
Members who respond remain anonymous however they provide demographic data such as their age and sexuality (amongst other things). So we actually surveyed 2,552 of our members over three days.
So your concerns of question validity, sample and demographics are hopefully laid to rest.
😀
Lamar
I would really hate to be straight, I heard that the only reason gay men seem to be so more sex obsessed than straight men is because women are often not in the mood for sex. Men seem t o be more compatible with other men e.g Men are from Mars women are from Venus. Besides who would want to touch a vagina or boobs they look so repulsive the very thought makes me wanna puke.
Anthony Dunlavey
The question is “If there was a pill to cure your diseased condition of homosexuality would you take it?”.
Isn’t that what pills are for to cure deseases? Once again you’re being seed as diseased, sick, someone to be cured. There are straight men who would torture you and beat you to death while highly moral religious bigots would look on and cheer, are they healthy are they wholesome? Are they asked “If there were a pill that could stop you from being bigoted f***-heads would you take it?”.
Jaroslaw
Tylertime, Ken, Fitz – *(and Dr) maybe Detroit isn’t the best place to be Gay but for what it is worth, I even went to a Gay psychologist (yeah the famous one Joe Kort) and he didn’t see any major issues that I had. I do now because I’m older, gained some weight (although I’m losing it now for health reasons).
But DR has a point too, guys. Think about school, work any social situation – some people are popular – everyone wants to be invited to their parties etc. and some aren’t. No matter what any particular person does to be more popular,or whatever, there will always be “winners” and “losers”.
A representative sample of my dating history – the first date I ever had when I was 17 I got out of the paper – had a really nice time, he seemed interested – we stayed in and out of touch for over 20 years (as friends) but he was a man-whore. He obviously pretended he was really into me and feigned shock when I was hurt!(In the intervening years, he’s told me graphic details about every guy he’s been with, something is wrong with every single one but a few actually start out as “the one.”) Anyway I was skinny then – I went to bars, Gay groups, tried more ads in the paper – never had a second date. Gave up for a few years, tried again, same thing. Went to the Gay community center – I went with a friend (but we didn’t say we were friends) over and over they went for him because he was more attractive. Tried a for pay dating service, met a couple nice friends but again no second dates. My favorite though was from an online dating thing. We had a wonderful conversation on the telephone, he asked about my appearance, I was truthful. We made a date (I was only a few pounds over then) I put on some new shoes, ironed pants & shirt, hair looked great. He picked the place and was late! I mentioned we both had a beard/mustache and he gruffly replied “it is called a Van Dyke!” He could barely look at me while we ate. OK OK I’m not handsome but I don’t have a third eye. Needless to say we didn’t have another date. And HE wasn’t handsome either. Making things worse, the few guys who have been attracted to me have major issues and I do mean major. The latest on (( a few weeksa ago) was an unemployed truck driver who lives in his sister’s attic. We were introduced by a friend. I took him to the Gay comedy fest, I let him know I got complimentary tickets so he wouldn’t feel uncomfortable. I didn’t press for anything, didn’t talk about myself hardly at all. I didn’t even treat it like a date. He said he had a good time and HE SAID he would like to get together again. About a week later, I dropped by his house with this mutual friend, (we were shopping and just stayed a minute) invited him to drive around a nearby park. On the day, I called, he said he would need 90 minutes to get ready. He of course never called when he was ready and when I called later, he didn’t answer nor was his voicemail set up. Haven’t heard from him since.
I give up! :0
DR
@D’oh, The Magnificent:
Yes, I’d like for gay men to wake up and recognize what they’re doing to their so-called community. I see a lot of guys on here either making childish comments about women’s bodies (unnecessary, we’re not ten) or completely discounting the experiences of those of us who simply don’t have big city resources. Until gay men get it through their heads that we need to actually support each other instead of spending all out time cutting each other down, we’re going nowhere.
If that’s an agenda in this case, then I have one.
Chitown Kev
Once upon a time I would have taken such a pill, but that was over 20 years ago. If anything, I’d take a pill to be even gayer now.
jeffree
Would Ebony or some other African-American magazine –or website– poll its readers asking them if they could take a pill to become white?
Maybe they have done those surveys. I wouldn’t want to read them .
My being gay is not, and never has been an option a choice or an accessory. The fact that my birth mom drank or drugged during her pregnancy causing me learning deficits (fetal alcohol syndrome) means I struggle minute by minute to spell, but I speak & read well. I compensate.
Call my gayness and disabilities defects if u want (one Queerty reader called me a “retard” and he is less “magnificient” than his screen name suggests) but I still wouldn ‘t be half as brave, fierce, resourceful, adaptable or outspoken without those impediments.
The most complaining I ever hear is from str8 men whose girlfriends are trying to “improve” or change them. they feel inadequate about 23 hours a day. My bf & the ones before him accept me for who I am, defects and all.
No, I would not take the pill. No I do not wish to be “NORMAL”.
I understand that I face discrimination and insults (my boss hates “queers”, I cannot get married, yet; I was told I would not ever graduate high school although I will soon finish college, etc) but I have learned 2 stand up for myself, to fight for my place, to wrestle (literally), to win prizes for my photographs, and to
conduct interviews. I can stand up to bullies, and stare danger in the face with out flinching.
None of those things might have been possible without my “baggage.”
When there is a pill to “cure” my intense dislike of flying bugs or cats I’ll consider that, however!
Fitz
Tyler and Dr: Seriously, I say this with compassion: get off the fucking pity potty. Time is short. You can lament that you aren’t 20, buff, 6’6 with a 10″ dick, or you can just move forward and find a decent guy who is also not an adonis and build something together. Do pretty people get more attention? Hell yea. Gay or straight. But the problem isn’t the community’s vanity, it is your buying into it. Really: just let it go and find a way to enjoy your time on this planet. If you meet guys in bars, you will meet bar guys. If you meet tricks on CL, then they are just tricks. So focus on the other 99.9% of who you are– go volunteer somewhere. Just be your own best-happy-joyful person. Groom yourself for your lover, even though you haven’t met him yet. It’s very sad to see a room full of people standing against the wall not dancing because the 3 hot guys don’t want to talk to them.
alan brickman
it’s more like 97%….guys
D'oh, The Magnificent
@DR: I see no more bad behavior from gay people than I do from any other group of people. Your singling them out as somehow worse is why your agenda is self hate at best, and you are just a homophobe at worse. You are like this guy I went on a date with once who kept telling me that straight men don’t think about sex as much as gay men. It was idiotic on his face, but because he had so much self hate- all he could see was what gay people do. You have a problem. Like the guy above trying to place straight relationships on a pedestal without looking at real straight relationship. It ain’t gay people you have a problem with. It’s yourself.
D'oh, The Magnificent
@alan brickman: Well now that you have projected … thanks.
Tylertime
@AlwaysGay:
Where did I say that I didn’t work out and wasn’t muscular? I’m 6′, 181lbs and I’m at the gym 5 days a week. I am muscular, but what does this have to do with anything? I’m not an arrogant gay who goes around saying I’m “VGL” like so many of them do. I think of myself as an average joe. I’m just saying that if I were straight I know I would have a smart, attractive and nice wife. It isn’t so easy to find that in a man. The gays are way too picky and I think it comes from always being outsiders growing up. They aspire to have perfection even though they are far from it. I don’t see this with my straight friends.
Kyle24
I’m 30, built and considered “goodlooking”. Sorry to say it, but I agree with Tyler and Dr. I have been out 12 years and most gays are messes. My gay friends and I are grounded and don’t get caught up in the drama of the scene and it’s rare that we date guys even though we aspire to be in relationships. There don’t seem to be many quality gays guys out there. My straight buddies have gfs and wives that I consider to be quality girls. I know if I were straight it would be much easier for me to find a partner. There are certainly a lot more damaged gays out there than there are straights.
Alejandro
I think it’s a case of the grass being greener. I don’t necessarily see life being easier for straight people dating wise. Perhaps maybe a hormonal push from women to have babies (which many of my female friends have told me is very very strong around the age of 30) is the catalyst to get married. But you know, I’d rather settle down with someone because I love them rather than some instinctual hormonal need to spawn.
Not to mention divorce rates aren’t very heartening. Relationships are hard for everyone. Intimacy is hard for everyone. I’m single, so I really can’t offer any advice but the older I get the more I see that single, attached, gay, straight . . . everyone has bullshit.
And I have had my moments of really being frustrated with other gay men and more often than not all the things I accuse them of being–catty, superficial, vain, etc.–are traits that (consciously or unconsciously) I also see in myself. I need to keep reminding myself to work on my own issues and perhaps my perception (and love life) will change for the better.
Fitz
@Alejandro: Well said. I wish I had a gay son to throw at you.
I don’t know why we don’t take “learning how to be in relationships” more seriously. I mean, our society doesn’t teach it well for gay boys.. so if it’s a problem in your life, work on it guys! I wont go into a big autobiography, but 30 years ago I did the foot work of learning to be happy, and honest, and how to care and be cared for. It has really paid off for me. I love my husband, I love our life- even when i get so aggro about politics or other issues. If you are willing to spend 10 hours a week in a gym for nice arms, how much time are you willing to spend in groups or therapy, or (dare I say it.. yes I dare) prayer and mediation so that you can work on your real ‘love muscle’?
Alejandro
@Fitz: Thank you 🙂
And it was very encouraging to read your response.
SSCHIEFRSHA
@Kyle24: “There are certainly a lot more damaged gays out there than there are straights.”
And whose fault is this? The breeders of course! Who have systematically undertaken a campaign of psychological condemnation of homosexuality to make it seem like heterosexuality is a privilege thereby scorching a sense of guilt and an envious spirit into the homosexual psyche. I blame the superstitious nonsense they allow themselves to be fed. The Fools! You only let them win if you allow yourself to envy that reproductive abyss. All you have to know is that “happiness is a choice” that you must make happen for you as Andrew Sullivan will put it.
As for the gay pill, well if you haven’t guessed my answer already then it is a big, in neon sign “NO” Women are overrated and if it were up to me, the lot would be locked up in the cellar only fit to see daylight when their reproductive organs are needed urgently. My Grand Mama excepted!
[img]http://amyking.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/gay_couple.jpg[/img][img]http://www.ichatgay.com/img_blog/1150.jpg[/img][img]http://citizenchris.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/02/r2.jpg[/img][img]http://static.open.salon.com/files/vintage_gay_couple1238620372.jpg[/img]
DR
@D’oh, The Magnificent:
It amazes me that we’ll scream and cry about people not coming out, but leave out people to fend for themselves and totally avoid introspection as a community and tell them they’re having themselves a pity-party for pointing it out.
And of course, asking for said introspection and challenging the status quo makes me a “homophobe” or “self-hater”. Maybe it just makes me more self aware? Of course that can’t be it since I actually have the gall to criticize our community, right?
Fitz
@DR: You ARE the community. You are what works and what needs work. Fixing ourselves fixes the community far better than waiting for it to happen the other way around.
Joel
@Fitz:
Fitz, stop attacking DR. He sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders. By the sounds of it you are fortunate to be in a relationship for 30 years. That means you partnered up in 1980? With all due respect I don’t think you had the same body facism issues to deal with in 1980 that came about in the 1990s when gays began being marketed to. From what I see from old magazines, movies,books etc. gays of all shapes and sizes were respected more in the 60s/70s. With the 90s came a physical ideal that many gays can’t live up to no matter how hard they try. What I’m saying is that many gays today on a scale of 1 to 10 are a 5 (average) but they all apsire to have 10s to date (probably due to self esteem issues). Back before we were a consumer market and were told what to look like and act like by advertisers gays seemed to emrace each other more.
You need to get off your relationship pedestal. It sounds like the comfort of a relationship for so long has made you be a little snotty and condescending to those are single.
Oh, and if I were your partner I would be annoyed that you spend so much time on queerty posting constantly instead of in the kitchen making my dinner.
Jaroslaw
Am I still awaiting for my comment to be approved?
Jaroslaw
this was supposed to be at #60: Tylertime, Ken, Fitz – *(and Dr) maybe Detroit isn’t the best place to be Gay but for what it is worth, I even went to a Gay psychologist (yeah the famous one Joe Kort) and he didn’t see any major issues that I had. I do now because I’m older, gained some weight (although I’m losing it now for health reasons).
But DR has a point too, guys. Think about school, work any social situation – some people are popular – everyone wants to be invited to their parties etc. and some aren’t. No matter what any particular person does to be more popular,or whatever, there will always be “winners” and “losers”.
A representative sample of my dating history – the first date I ever had when I was 17 I got out of the paper – had a really nice time, he seemed interested – we stayed in and out of touch for over 20 years (as friends) but he was a man-whore. He obviously pretended he was really into me and feigned shock when I was hurt!(In the intervening years, he’s told me graphic details about every guy he’s been with, something is wrong with every single one but a few actually start out as “the one.”) Anyway I was skinny then – I went to bars, Gay groups, tried more ads in the paper – never had a second date. Gave up for a few years, tried again, same thing. Went to the Gay community center – I went with a friend (but we didn’t say we were friends) over and over they went for him because he was more attractive. Tried a for pay dating service, met a couple nice friends but again no second dates. My favorite though was from an online dating thing. We had a wonderful conversation on the telephone, he asked about my appearance, I was truthful. We made a date (I was only a few pounds over then) I put on some new shoes, ironed pants & shirt, hair looked great. He picked the place and was late! I mentioned we both had a beard/mustache and he gruffly replied “it is called a Van Dyke!” He could barely look at me while we ate. OK OK I’m not handsome but I don’t have a third eye. Needless to say we didn’t have another date. And HE wasn’t handsome either. Making things worse, the few guys who have been attracted to me have major issues and I do mean major. The latest on (( a few weeksa ago) was an unemployed truck driver who lives in his sister’s attic. We were introduced by a friend. I took him to the Gay comedy fest, I let him know I got complimentary tickets so he wouldn’t feel uncomfortable. I didn’t press for anything, didn’t talk about myself hardly at all. I didn’t even treat it like a date. He said he had a good time and HE SAID he would like to get together again. About a week later, I dropped by his house with this mutual friend, (we were shopping and just stayed a minute) invited him to drive around a nearby park. On the day, I called, he said he would need 90 minutes to get ready. He of course never called when he was ready and when I called later, he didn’t answer nor was his voicemail set up. Haven’t heard from him since.
I give up! :0
Jaroslaw
part 1 of 3
this was supposed to be at #60: Tylertime, Ken, Fitz – *(and Dr) maybe Detroit isn’t the best place to be Gay but for what it is worth, I even went to a Gay psychologist (yeah the famous one Joe Kort) and he didn’t see any major issues that I had. I do now because I’m older, gained some weight (although I’m losing it now for health reasons).
Jaroslaw
part 2 of 3
But DR has a point too, guys. Think about school, work any social situation – some people are popular – everyone wants to be invited to their parties etc. and some aren’t. No matter what any particular person does to be more popular,or whatever, there will always be “winners” and “losers”.
A representative sample of my dating history – the first date I ever had when I was 17 I got out of the paper – had a really nice time, he seemed interested – we stayed in and out of touch for over 20 years (as friends) but he was a man-whore. He obviously pretended he was really into me and feigned shock when I was hurt!(In the intervening years, he’s told me graphic details about every guy he’s been with, something is wrong with every single one but a few actually start out as “the one.”) Anyway I was skinny then – I went to bars, Gay groups, tried more ads in the paper – never had a second date. Gave up for a few years, tried again, same thing. Went to the Gay community center – I went with a friend (but we didn’t say we were friends) over and over they went for him because he was more attractive
Jaroslaw
part 3 of 3
Tried a for pay dating service, met a couple nice friends but again no second dates. My favorite though was from an online dating thing. We had a wonderful conversation on the telephone, he asked about my appearance, I was truthful. We made a date (I was only a few pounds over then) I put on some new shoes, ironed pants & shirt, hair looked great. He picked the place and was late! I mentioned we both had a beard/mustache and he gruffly replied “it is called a Van Dyke!” He could barely look at me while we ate. OK OK I’m not handsome but I don’t have a third eye. Needless to say we didn’t have another date. And HE wasn’t handsome either. Making things worse, the few guys who have been attracted to me have major issues and I do mean major. The latest on (( a few weeksa ago) was an unemployed truck driver who lives in his sister’s attic. We were introduced by a friend. I took him to the Gay comedy fest, I let him know I got complimentary tickets so he wouldn’t feel uncomfortable. I didn’t press for anything, didn’t talk about myself hardly at all. I didn’t even treat it like a date. He said he had a good time and HE SAID he would like to get together again. About a week later, I dropped by his house with this mutual friend, (we were shopping and just stayed a minute) invited him to drive around a nearby park. On the day, I called, he said he would need 90 minutes to get ready. He of course never called when he was ready and when I called later, he didn’t answer nor was his voicemail set up. Haven’t heard from him since.
I give up! :0
Jaroslaw
part 3 of 4
Tried a for pay dating service, met a couple nice friends but again no second dates. My favorite though was from an online dating thing. We had a wonderful conversation on the telephone, he asked about my appearance, I was truthful. We made a date (I was only a few pounds over then) I put on some new shoes, ironed pants & shirt, hair looked great. He picked the place and was late! I mentioned we both had a beard/mustache and he gruffly replied “it is called a Van Dyke!” He could barely look at me while we ate. OK OK I’m not handsome but I don’t have a third eye. Needless to say we didn’t have another date. And HE wasn’t handsome either. Making things worse, the few guys who have been attracted to me have major issues and I do mean major. The latest on (( a few weeksa ago) was an unemployed truck driver who lives in his sister’s attic. We were introduced by a friend. I took him to the Gay comedy fest,
Jaroslaw
sorry my comments are too long apparently. they keep saying “awaiting moderator” Anyway, nothing seems to work for me & dating. I did have a one year relationship with a guy who had an “epiphany” at age 40 never realized he was Gay, he claimed, never met anyone like me blah blah blah – he was a super drama queen and I finally had enough of trying everything to make it work and three months after we broke up, he MOVED in with another guy. Plus he had a daughter from a 7 year relationship. Wonder why I’m somewhat bitter and unhappy about being Gay.
Ken
As long as you continue believing things would be better if you were straight when you have no way of knowing that, you are only maker your bitterness that much more intense.
Alejandro
@Joel:
I was born in 1974, so a lot of this is just from reading stuff (and talking to older gay men who lived through that era). While, the hairless, bronzed Chelsea clone is indeed a product of the 90s and a response to the physical wasting of AIDS from the 80s, gay men in the 70s were just as obsessed with looks, bodies, cock size as they are today. Men are visual creatures. And that’s hard to deal with sometimes if you fall short of the porno-standard. But I’ve seen many men who do not meet these standards (including myself) find love and sex. Again, it may just be my good fortune living in a big city and having the luxury of a gym membership . . . but it’s not entirely impossible.
And if Fitz did indeed partner up in 1980, I’m sure it was even harder THEN because (again from what I’ve read), gay men didn’t have so much of a concept of how to be couples back then and there were less people who were out and the dating pool was probably a lot smaller.
DR
@Fitz:
Fitz, you can only fix yourself so much before you have to recognize that it’s not just you, that the folks around you are just as screwed up (or worse!).
asa1973
@Michael: LOL!
tazz602
How many of us have thought about that at one time or another? A friend and I posed that same question to each other about 20 years ago – and my answer is the same then as now.
NO
And my reasons are simple. I would not know how to be straight. I might find myself sexually attracted to women, but I have to learn how to navigate in the heterosexual waters of politics, women, dealing with other str8 men, etc. It would mean going thru all the trials of puberty all over again without the hormone boost. And quite frankly, I do not have the time or energy to even consider it.
Fitz
@Joel: Sorry that you think I am being a bitch. I don’t think I am, I am trying to encourage. I have been in my marriage for 20 years. 30 Years ago I decided to begin the work of becoming happy and productive. And body image? Man– the Castro Clone days, and the subsequent over–built boys during the start of the AIDS crisis were pretty bad. I don’t care if you like men, women, or purple monkeys. Just have a fucking good time, don’t hurt anyone, and make the world a little nicer before you go.