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Would You Kill Your Own Son If He Was Gay? This Ugandan Lawmaker Would

You thought Ugandan lawmaker David Bahati, sponsor of the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, was a demon? Then you haven’t met his colleague Otto Odonga, who says he’d kill his own son if he found out he was A Gay.

This morning in Kampala, at an invite-only forum titled “Human Rights and Sexual Orientation” and attended by several ministers of parliament (and NGO officials, students, and academics), Odonga remarked, “Human rights are not sacrosanct. Private parts do not belong in the anus. We will not accept this kind of deviant behaviour in our society.”

Luckily, his remarks didn’t go unchallenged, reports Xtra‘s Kaj Hasselriis, who’s been on the ground in Uganda delivering excellent reports.

Makau Mutua (pictured), the chairman of Kenya’s Human Rights Commission and a co-organizer of the conference, denounced Odonga’s remarks. “I am baffled by the kind of hatred you spew against gay people, including your desire to be a hangman. Would you apply to be a hangman if the person to be hanged were your son?”

Odonga nodded. Which is also what you should expect him to do if the Kill The Gays bill comes up for a vote.

By:           editor editor
On:           Feb 19, 2010
Tagged: , , , ,
  • 192 Comments
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      Otto Odonga: You have a very Gay face…..I suggest you kill yourself immediatley!!!

      Feb 19, 2010 at 4:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cam
      Cam

      Unfortunatly, my guess is that if that lawmaker had a gay son the son would have hung himself.

      Feb 19, 2010 at 5:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Sug Night
      Sug Night

      Why would the U.S. ever give this country full of cavemen another penny? Or the even time of day?

      Feb 19, 2010 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • soul_erosion
      soul_erosion

      This was the first time I wished there were actually 30 pics to click thru.

      Feb 19, 2010 at 6:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • soul_erosion
      soul_erosion

      oh sorry, wrong thread, oops

      Feb 19, 2010 at 6:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • whatevs
      whatevs

      There seems to be a strange preoccupation with the anus in this equatorial region. It’s about a mythical filth which fits nicely with the christian opinion that every human is a filthy sinner. What_A_World.

      Feb 19, 2010 at 7:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh AZ
      Josh AZ

      D I S G U S T I N G

      There seems to be no limit to Christian hatred.

      Feb 19, 2010 at 10:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh AZ
      Josh AZ

      Christians only hope is to recruit in areas of the World that there is profound ignorance. The same applies for Muslims.

      No thinking person can possibly believe in fairy tales. Thankfully, less than 60% of America is still infected with religion.

      Feb 19, 2010 at 10:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      Better but much more difficult question: If your dad said he was going to kill you for being gay, what would YOU do?

      We talked about this over dinner: five of us. All 5 said they would leave the country, and two said they would consider killing the dad if it came down to his life versus ours. No one was advocating murder without a direct threat, but STILL! nb:

      See what this crazy Religious shit brings up when the wine flows and tongues get wagging?

      I’m lucky: I have a dad and a mom and another mom, too, [long story] and they never once said anything negative before or after I came out. BUT, they weren’t subject to rabid fundies growing up, and don’t practice any religion. Two of those friends were kicked out of their homes once it was clear they weren’t just goin’ through a phase.

      Let’s not fool ourselves. Gay and lesbian kids face this nasty hateful rhetoric from their families here in the US, even if it’s not always so explicit. Kids internalize these messages and often self-harm.

      @Sug Night: Good point. Sad fact is that many of the Third World religious/political leaders get their cues, marching and dollars from the megachurches here, in the US. Or from the Muslim clerics with deep pockets. I wish I had a bright idea on how to counter them, but I sure don’t.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 1:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      Josh AZ

      You are a bigot. Your statements are identical to those coming from Otto Odonga, you are his peer, ally, comrade and twin.

      You used the “recruit” meme: “Christians only hope is to recruit” just like the homophobes in Uganda, and the U.S., do about homosexuals. You are no better than they, they are no worse than you.

      You mock the lives and experiences of other people, just as homophobes do. You are no better than they, they are no worse than you.

      “less than 60% of America is still infected with religion.”

      You characterize something of great personal importance to others as a disease, just as homophobes do. You are no better than they, they are no worse than you.

      “No thinking person can possibly believe in fairy tales.”

      Religion is not a fairy tale. Your false characterization, indicates not only malice, but a severely hampered ability to engage in rational thought, as well as a conspicuous lack of experience discussing anything with Jesuits.

      There’s an interesting correlation at work – two social phenomena that have at work at the same time:

      1) the rise, popularization and mainstreaming of fundamentalist atheism, with its aggressively malicious and degrading propoganda

      2) the stalling and reversal of the GLBTQ drive to civil equality.

      While correlation does not prove causation – at the very time when GLBTQ people are pushing mainstream hets to re-evaluate the biases they have grown up with, biases wrongly veneered with religious tradition –

      atheists are articulating a malicious and hate-filled prejudice that puts all people of faith on the defensive, and therefore, less likely to entertain any re-examination or challenge to their beliefs or traditions.

      By being even nastier bigots than fundamentalist religionists are, fundamentalist atheists are crippling the GLBTQ community’s push for civil equality.

      Fundamentalist atheists on the web are sacrificing the lives, rights, efforts and money of GLBTQ people, by sabotaging our work for equality, in order to prosecute their war of prejudice and hate on religion and people of faith.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 3:00 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • coemgenus
      coemgenus

      Cassandra says: ”
      You are no better than they, they are no worse than you…Religion is not a fairy tale. Your false characterization, indicates not only malice”

      I am sorry, persons who condemn others to death using religious arguments ARE worse than those who verbally criticise religion. Religion is a made up construct, varying wildly from one culture, time and place, to another – and yet “always right”? Please try and read something about philosophy and ethics written after 1740 – and don’t get yourself involved in justifying a hangman’s noose in “Jesus'” name. Malicious Hypocrite.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 4:34 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      @Cassandra: I absolutely support freedom OF religion.

      I also fully support separation of Church and State.

      Another way to say that, is I seek freedom FROM having people of faith determining:
      + my fitness to exercise my profession,
      + my tax sitiuation as part of a same-sex couples,
      + my right to marry a person of the same gender, with its associated advantages
      + my right to adopt a child, and
      + my ability to serve in the Armed forces if I chose to do so.

      Does your religion believe that I am inherently flawed, morally disordered, or somehow worthy of being stoned, killed or burnt at the stake?

      If not, I’d like to hear more. If so, then please know that I bear you no ill will and hope you’ll return the favor.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 5:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      Cassandra, you’ve written the biggest load of reeking diaper-filling that it has been my misfortune to read on here in a long while.

      I won’t weary myself by rebutting all your infant school-level arguments as COEMGENUS has already done that most effectively.

      Idiots like yourself who want to believe in an imaginary sky-pixie should have the right to do so, but only in private and in silence. Now go back to your prayer group and be silent.

      Oh, and by the way, the word BIGOT is a word intimately related to religion. (You can use an etymological dictionary, yes?) I assume you knew that and have the intelligence to have adopted a wry sense of irony using it to condemn the non-religious! Very amusing.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 7:56 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Lukas P, #12 This was so right on. Perfect.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 7:58 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob
      Rob

      the truth is Cassandra, Christianity is a joke. People just use it to make themselves feel better and to deal with things they can’t understand. It’s based on tones of myths and legends that were around long before the bible, and anyone who commits their life to it is foolish. These backwater people have allowed themselves to be pawns of U.S. christians and losing their souls in the process. GO ATHEISM.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 9:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OXAi7rNMg&feature=related (Swaggaert crying)

      Feb 20, 2010 at 9:24 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Josh AZ
      Josh AZ

      @Cassandra: STFU

      Feb 20, 2010 at 10:55 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Lukas P.
      Lukas P.

      @1EqualityUSA: Thanks!

      Cassandra hasn’t made her rebuttal. In my experience, the religious and the “right” often don’t.

      I feel like a corrupt MP3 file [a.k.a "broken record"] many days, because of the whole “freedom OF” religion vs. “freedom FROM” issue near and dear to me.

      For *anyone* to suggest they’re justified in advocating murdering their own offspring for being BGL or T will never sit well with me.

      @Coemgenus. Yep. Well said. Keep posting, please.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 1:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Taylor Siluwé
      Taylor Siluwé

      No. 18 · Lukas P.

      You rock bro! Cassandra is hopefully speechless. Or maybe you and Coemgenus (I hope, I hope) gave her something to think about.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 4:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Pssst, No. 10 · Cassandra…

      Would that I were half the gentleman taht Lukas P is, but since I am not, I will just come right out and say what I am thinking.

      Blow it out of your ass, Cassandra.

      Oh wait. You’re already doing that, aren’t you?

      Never mind.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 4:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 18 · Lukas P.

      I feel like a corrupt MP3 file [a.k.a "broken record"] many days, because of the whole “freedom OF” religion vs. “freedom FROM” issue near and dear to me.

      No broken record you, friend.

      That issue is near and dear to all of us.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 4:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      I find it interesting that Cassandra’s Much ado about nothing” rant and attack on atheism, did not have one word of condemnation for Ugandan Lawmaker, Otto Odonga, who was the subject of this thread.

      Her post no. 10 was not just a derailment of the subject at hand.

      It was a major train-wreck.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 4:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Sorry. Forgot to place italics after Much ado about nothing

      Feb 20, 2010 at 4:35 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • PADude
      PADude

      @schlukitz: Exactly. Because a condemnation of an admitted potential murderer is precisely as bad as admitting that you’d commit murder.

      Cassandra’s just trying to move the goalposts to the right. Ignore the silly thing and keep the goal where it should be–against murder, not against sharp criticism.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 7:14 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      The worst way to prove me wrong is to post exactly the same kind of insults and dismissals that homophobes use all the time.

      Not a one of you actually addressed, much less attempted to disprove what I presented, relying instead on the standard tactic of all bigots – verbal abuse.

      Each of you has used the very same arguments that homophobes use about homosexuality. For example:

      “a made up construct” = “homosexuality is a choice”
      and
      “I seek freedom FROM having people ” = “forcing their lifestyle choice”.

      The irrational rage that y’all have expressed confirms, rather than refutes what I said – your target is different, but the malice and the way you express it is exactly the same as that expressed by homophobes.

      Tallskin says “I won’t weary myself by rebutting” but only demonstrates that he/she cannot formulate, much less verbalize, a refutation to the points I made, and so, relies on abusive language instead. And PadDude dismissal is simply impotent failure.

      These are the exact same methods that homophobes use to respond to any and all criticism of their hate speech about GLBTQ people.

      Sorry folks, but your posts prove beyond all doubt – you are identical to homophobe in every way except your choice of target. When you snark like a homophobe, scream insults and obscenities like a homophobe, dismiss and denigrate like a homophobe, malign, exagerate, slander, libel and lie like a homophobe

      then you are a bigot, just like a homophobe.

      And you are actively obstructing the efforts to create a civil, equal society.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 7:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bash Young
      Bash Young

      Hey Mr. Clean, where is your heart? You are only thinking of your pride. WTF

      Feb 20, 2010 at 7:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      Rob

      “the truth is Cassandra, Christianity is a joke. People just use it to make themselves feel better and to deal with things they can’t understand.”

      You are confusing Christianity with atheism. Atheists use their denial of spirituality to make themselves feel better, to give themselves permission to do, think, and feel all of the horrible and vile things that religions teach people not to do. Religions teach, among other things, that people are imperfect, and so atheists, out of ego, and wanting to believe that they are perfect, vilify people of faith. Every time an atheist complains about the concept of sin, what they are really doing is rejecting the notion that there could be anything wrong with anything they, personally, do, say, feel, even as they criticize and condemn the actions, statements and feelings of everyone one else. It is that double standard, of saying ‘there’s no such thing as sin’ from one side of their mouths, and then labeling the actions of others as wrong, bad, evil, the proves that atheists do not really reject the notion of sin, they simply refuse to apply to themselves.

      In other words, rob, you were projecting, and your denials are simply an attempt to make yourself feel better and deal with something you do not understand.

      The truth is, atheism is a fundamentally dehumanizing construct of egotism and irrationality that violates, intrinsically, the core ethical foundation of human society.

      Atheism (and therefore atheists), insist without even the evidence of their own experiences, that everyone else is the world is absolutely wrong about their own experiences. This is egotism on a pathological scale. Atheists, like homophobes, declare “we are right about your lives and you are just wrong because we said so”. Homophobes say that about sexuality, and atheists say it about spirituality. Two apples off the same poisoned tree.

      There’s a good reason why atheists are distrusted by others – their entire belief system is a denial of other people’s integrity, experiences, and testimony. Yet the pathetic thing is that atheists expect, heck, demand that their only assertions be believed even as they refuse to believe anyone else. In essence, atheists set themselves up as superior to all other human beings, not because of anything they contribute, but because they just say so.

      Ironically, atheists come across more like ex-gays than rational, reasoned individuals; deep in denial, verbally violent when challenged, and thoroughly enraged.

      Why are they enraged? Because other people are experiencing, and appreciating, something the atheists do not experience, or will not allow themselves to experience. They feel left out, deprived, miserable to the point of posting hate speech on the ‘net to soothe their ego.

      And the fact that most of the world is experiencing something, and are emotionally, spiritually, materially enriched by that experience, while they are not, so infuriates atheists on the ‘net that they engage in exactly the same tactics every jealousy driven bigot employs – from judging entire groups of people by the actions of a few, to outright lies.

      This is precisely the same emotional state that homophobes and other bigots are expressing.

      The only difference between the atheists here and elsewhere on the ‘net, and homophobes, is the same difference between racists and homophobes, or misogynists and homophobes, or anti-Semites (and atheists are by definition automatically anti-semites as well) and homophobe:

      target.

      Some people hate others for their skin color, some people hate others for their gender, some people hate others for their sexual orientation, and atheists hate others for their religion.

      The only difference is target.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 7:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      Lukas

      Do you know that the overwhelming majority of all people who support Freedom of Religion, who fought for it, died for it, strive to this day to advance and protect it

      are people of faith. The civil rights anyone has reflect the values and sacrifices of people of faith, including in the U.S., Christians.

      If one wants to see the effects of the wholescale implementation of atheism, the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) is a revealing example.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 8:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Cassandra, There’s a passage in the Bible that describes levels of spiritual maturity. Seeds are used as a metaphor for the spirit’s quality. Some, who hear have it stolen away quickly. The seeds are trampled under foot and picked off by birds (bad-egg-birds) of the air. Some seeds fall on rock, sprout, and then get burned up, scorched by the sun. With no root, it is desiccated. Some grow, yet, are eventually choked by the cares of the world, represented as a thorny briar that tangles around the spirit, tugging it’s original impetus. Lastly. the seeds grow in healthy soil, producing an abundance. These are rarest, yet they flourish beyond measure. This sower and the seed parable helps to evaluate in which of the four categories a spirit rests. This serves to alleviate anger also. Just as there is a wide range of sexual identity, there is a wide range of spiritual maturity. Where one falls on this gradient is a mystery in both categories. Ego? Fate? Gifts, divine? A total mystery. Even 16th Century monks pondered this gradient in an effort to discover the role of impetus. Some have said that we choose our lives, knowing it’s entirety, before ever having entered into it. Why would one choose to have a horrible fate? could it be that hard circumstances might have been chosen by those most loving, opting to take on suffering in another’s place. Mozart had a gift. The place where spirit meets matter is my primary interest, a mystery still. Mozart had a gift. Scientists discovered that grey matter becomes denser in areas where we expend the most thought power. Just as there are those with the gift of music, there are those with a propensity towards math, or dance, or art, or writing. At what point does grey matter become, simply, a conduit for spiritual impetus? Christianity sees the inanimate flesh as the lesser of the two. Once someone makes that leap, there no fully being home (at home) any longer. Forever changed by the realization that we, indeed, are dust, we transform under the notion that only energy can move these atoms, this harnessed dust. Mitosis-like. Could it be that just as there are those with a propensity for music or math, we may also have faith as a gift given? Is the brain, our grey matter, a conduit, made that much more heightened? Spiritual concepts, like the gift of music, has a place in physiology. Who is to say, on what part of our mind, this mysterious X will draw. The conduits expressing through our humanity are as varied as our individual identities. Love and hate are determined by ego. Ignorance is another determinant. The Bible says that we will be held accountable for every word that spills from our lips and that our words come from our heart. (Nucleus?) It likens hate, heart-hate, to be less desirable than discharges (shit) left on the side of the road.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 9:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Joanaroo
      Joanaroo

      Hi! Schlukitz! How are ya? I have been away from this site because I have been really busy-one thing has not changed! The same Christian thinking that was against everything to make a society equal and fair, from gay rights to health care for all, yet I know plenty of athiests who care more for their fellow man than these Bible thumpers ever did!

      Feb 20, 2010 at 10:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      All that gay people have asked for is the Right to Equal treatment.
      You, Cassandra, can believe what you want, and we can believe what we want. BUT NO, you believe that it is your right to deny us the same rights that you HOLD SO DEAR.

      We have not been saying lies about you. But many of the evangelicals in this country continue to spread (preach) outright lies about us and how we live (and we do get upset about those lies). Your religion is YOUR RELIGION, and therefor only people who join YOUR group are asked to follow your rules. THAT, my dear, is what is called separation of church and state. We may not be part of your religion; but we are ALL part of the state.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 11:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      My partner and I legally married after having spent years together. Now, after Prop H8, my younger friends are not able to marry the loves of their lives. This two-tiered set of rights cannot be reconciled by our Constitution.

      Feb 20, 2010 at 11:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      Peter
      You wrote: “All that gay people have asked for is the Right to Equal treatment.”

      I’m not sure why you think that is relevant to anything I’ve posted, so I’ll remind you that most GLBTQ people are people of faith – Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc. When fundamentalist atheists mock and vilify any of the above mentioned religions, or any other religion, they are implicitly attacking the GLBTQ people who find value in those faiths, whose life-experiencing have led them to those faiths.

      You wrote: “You, Cassandra, can believe what you want, and we can believe what we want. BUT NO, you believe that it is your right to deny us the same rights that you HOLD SO DEAR.”

      Substantiate your charge by quoting in full and in context, any and all statements from me that indicate I believe it is my right, or anyone’s right, to deny GLBTQ people, like myself, equal rights. And when you fail to find anything that supports your accusation, do apologize for falsely accusing me.

      “We have not been saying lies about you. But many of the evangelicals in this country continue to spread (preach) outright lies about us and how we live”

      Thank you for missing the point, Peter.

      First off, fundamentalist atheists at this site have been consistently and repeatedly lying about Christians, Christianity, Christian teaching, and people of faith in general. Your empty denial is just another example of dishonesty.

      Second, GLBTQ people complain when homophobes tell lies about GLBTQ people, and rightfully so. Lying is wrong. It is wrong when fundamentalist atheists tell lies about people of faith, it is wrong when homophobes tell lies about GLBTQ people.

      The problem, and the reason why I have posted about the overt prejudice that fundamentalist atheists are befouling the web with, is that when they lie about people of faith and engage in the same exaggerations, gross generalizations and false accusations that homophobes use, then GLBTQ people lose credibility when they point out the lies told by homophobes.

      The lies told by fundamentalist atheists here deprive GLBTQ people of the moral high ground, they reduce the discussion to a childish playground mud-flinging fest where everyone loses. It turns the whole thing into a petty case of ugly name-calling, and that only aids those who want to perpetuate injustice.

      You see, any prejudice automatically nurtures and sustains all others, because the principle, the ethical failing, is identical in them all. When society celebrates racism, it nurtures misogyny and homophobia and anti-semitism as well. So when fundamentalist atheists celebrate their prejudice against people of faith, they give tacit, implicit approval to every other prejudice, including homophobia.

      GLBTQ people rightfully argue that we should not have to endure degrading and derogatory attacks on our lives, character, families, as the price of participating in society. Yet fundamentalist atheists on liberal/progressive blogs and websites, and places like Queerty, are inflicting the very same price on progressive/liberal people of faith, gay or straight, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, etc. That’s wrong.

      Look, I realize that the fundamentalist atheists are counting on the fact that liberal/progressive people care more about social justice than ego, and will, mostly, put up with a great deal to bring about civil equality. Fundamentalist atheists are taking advantage of GLBTQ people, and liberal/progressive Christians, solely so they can have free reign to be as vicious and malicious as they like.

      It is wrong, and it alienates the very people we need to support our quest for civil equality. It is no coincidence that the quest for civil rights for GLBTQ people has stalled out at the very same time that fundamentalist atheism is poisoning any and all discussions related to religion. Scream ‘imaginary sky-pixie’ at mainstream Christians and you will not get them to even think about thinking about whether or not homosexuality is a sin.

      Keep in mind that the votes for civil equality for GLBTQ people are not coming solely, or even predominantly, from atheists of any kind. Most of the votes for civil equality are coming from liberal/progressive (and increasingly, mainstream) people of faith. Alienate this pool of voters, drive these people, gay or straight, out with the kind of hate speech that is so common here, and on Alternet, and other “progressive” sites, and who will be left to stand up for GLBTQ people?

      Fundamentalist atheists, even all gay and straight atheists, cannot win civil equality for anyone all by themselves. So the vicious prejudice from Josh AZ, schlukitz, BrianNYC and company, is destructive and hinders the advance of civil equality for everyone. The only people who benefit from their bigotry is other bigots.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 12:29 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Cassandra, Why does it bother you so much? Pay no mind, shake the dust off of your shoes, and represent your Father with patience, love, and wisdom. Scoffers are part of the story. For you to want to change that says more about you and your needs. Truth will stand, with or without your sincerest efforts.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 1:05 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Cassandra
      Cassandra

      One more thought for people to consider:

      Fundamentalist theology is not the only trait that homophobes have; Ugandan lawmaker David Bahati, for example, is male, has dark skin, and somewhat overweight.

      If someone said David Bahati is proof that all dark-skinned people hate GLBTQ people and want to murder us – that person would be accurately accused of racism. No rational person would tell GLBTQ people of color that they must renounce their ethnicity or be a traitor to gay rights simply because their skin is close to the color as David Bahati’s.

      Most homophobes are male, yet no one declares that all men are homophobes. A disproportionate percentage of American homophobes are significantly overweight, yet no one declares that fat people hate gays. To do so would be prejudice and dishonest.

      Think about it.

      In the U.S., most of the supporters of GLBTQ civil equality are Christians or Jews, just as most of the opponents of slavery, miscengenation laws, gender-based inequality, were Christians or Jews.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 1:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      The queer community is reacting to intolerance and rejection. Some Christians are less than wise in their dealings with brothers and sisters. Don’t expect everyone to react the same way, in the face of oppression. That would be like razzing you for crying at an opera. People are different. What a boring world this would be if we were all homogenized. If Christians move to oppress, they must be stopped and also told that they are behaving in a worldly way. Man-forged laws are of lesser value. True Christians know that our Lord was not a political figure. Herod the Great made that mistake. Learned Christians would not wallow in political cat fights, but teach that the flesh is a temporary vessel. Without spirit expressing itself through the conduit of our minds, we are inanimate particles of dust. We are milk cartons in the refrigerator with expiration dates stamped on our foreheads. Trying to be spiritual in these bio-mass sacks of bodies is like trying to fly a Volvo to the moon. It just lacks. Very few have this realization. True Christians, not foolish fighters, but elegant, patient, loving models of a radical concept will win more hearts than propositions brought about by slander.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 1:39 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      Curiously I once met someone who had some interaction with Otto Odonga. In another area, he seemed reasonable, so its rather interesting that he could be so bigoted regarding gays – it’s almost out of character. Guess it shows how irrational bigotry is. That’s something all of us should keep in mind – what may seem self-evident given widespread beliefs in one’s culture may be completely wrong, so while the trap he’s fallen into may be obvious to us, the ones we have to look out for may be just as hard for us to notice as his homophobia is for him.

      It’s better to be wishy-washy and accepting now than sorry later.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 2:25 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 30 · Joanaroo

      I am good, thanks. And how are you? So nice to hear from you again. You’ve been missed around these here parts. ;P Hope we’ll be hearing more from you now that you’re back.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 2:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • hephaestion
      hephaestion

      Murder is murder.

      Equality is equality.

      Justice is justice.

      Uganda is hell on earth.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 9:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      Cassandra:::::::the point is this—–we do NOT have our fundamental equal rights to live as you do. You are denying us a basic right. And you expect us to not be upset.???? AND giving us that right would in no way affect you or your way of life any more than you having to live next to a person that practices a different religion.

      Of course people say very sharp and unkind words: but words do not destroy something: it is acts that destroy. (I am making a point that you ignore; the real problem is our acts. Your words do nothing of consequence.) Can you understand the difference????

      Yes, continual words may cause other people to do unkind acts. The real crime is if these words cause someone to do harmful acts. Most of Jesus’s words to his followers were to do kind acts. (and words). They fail on both fronts. BUT by their ACTS are they known.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 9:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      Cassandra, i am a little confused here as you say: “atheists are articulating a malicious and hate-filled prejudice” !!!

      Right, silly me!

      So, you’re saying it’s NOT religious morality that was behind stoning gays to death in Afghanistan under the Taliban?

      That religious people are NOT killing each other in Iraq under the label shiite and Shia? And religious nazis are NOT murdering gays in Iraq!

      That religious nut-jobs are NOT killing gay teenagers in Iran?

      That the Westborough Church, Phelps and his band of merry nutters, are NOT in fact religious!

      That the hatred of gays in Africa has nothing whatsoever to do with religion!

      Well, there was me thinking that religion played some small part in all this!

      And I guess you’ll argue that the Western World didn’t start its homophobia from the time christianity became the state religion of the roman empire and for the very first time passed anti-homosexual laws.

      Thank for the education. Now I know that it was the wicked atheists all the time!

      Feb 21, 2010 at 11:15 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • romeo
      romeo

      Just can’t figure out why ol’ Cassandra is so shook that some people just don’t believe in God. As for atheists “spreading lies about Christians,” well, I don’t think atheists making their point about why they don’t believe is spreading lies, it’s just explaining their position. There have always been lots of atheists and agnostics, probably the latter constitutes the majority of people if the truth were known. That’s what I think is people like Cassandra’s real problem. People are getting tired of all the religious hysteria, and don’t feel intimidated by the minority of nutbags that have kept it going since Reagan. I think it’s obvious to most that religious fanatics don’t know their asses from a whole in the ground but just want to browbeat everybody else into submission.

      Get over it, Cassandra, the recent religious upswing in this country was just a pendulum swing, not a new paradigm. And because of the depression the religious helped cause by their support for the Republicans, it’s going to be a long, slow swing in the opposite direction. People are broke, and gonna stay broke, and THAT they don’t forgive.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 11:43 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Romeo, No doubt, some Christians abuse their power and try to force their beliefs on the unwilling. That’s why we need to strengthen the Church-State wall with true American resolve. Christians are bound to tell others about the radical concepts in Christ, however, lest they stand convicted for lack of faith. Silence is lack of faith.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 2:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Christians are bound to tell others about the radical concepts in Christ, however, lest they stand convicted for lack of faith. Silence is lack of faith.

      Yes. This is true. However, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, et al, also have the same convictions and requirements to “spread the faith”, as it were. And, it should be noted, that they all get tax exemptions for this.

      If organized religion is to be afforded freedom of speech (and tax exemptions for having faith) and not show lack of faith by remaining silent, then should not atheists and other assorted non-believers, who btw, are not organized, be allowed to vocally disagree instead of being shamed and coerced into remaining silent, lest they offend the believers?

      And, how come the “believers” get a tax exemption to “spread the word”, while the “non-believers” not only do not get a tax exemption for telling the scientific truth and exposing the lies and discrimination of organized religions, but are forced to pick up the slack of those who pay no taxes while being told to sit down and STFU.

      No fairsies, to my way of thinking.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      1EqualityUSA – the fact still remains that most if not all of today’s resistance to gay equality comes wrapped in a box marked RELIGION and tied up with a ribbon marked BIGOTRY.

      bigotry because my faith tells me something is bad, against all rational evidence to the contrary, therefore I must oppose it.

      and as I’ve pointed out religion lies at the very root, the fountainhead, of homophobia within Western culture, dating right back to when christianity became the religion of the roman empire.

      The religious have to be forced back into their box and told firmly that their views are not welcome outside of their homes.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:30 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 41 · Tallskin

      Cassandra, i am a little confused here

      Tallskin, you have just hit upon a fundamental piece of truth about Cassandra.

      Confusion is the M.O. of people like her.

      No doubt, you recall the old adage?

      If you can’t dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit.

      LOL

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Sorry. My first sentence should have been set-off in italics as a direct quote from your comment.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Homophobia is a money generator, so because of this, the truth about it will be suppressed. That is wrong. Because Christ never mentioned gays the entire time He walked the Earth, I believe that He understood something about us that Rabbinical Paul (Saul) could not. Every person is expected to place the world and the flesh body second to the spirit. Love is the commandment most talked about, not political might, not being better, and certainly not oppression. Christian oppression is a dichotomy that is unsubstantiated by the Word. Only those who lack faith resort to oppression.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:42 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      clarification: Every Christian person is expected to place the world and the flesh body second to the spirit.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:47 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @Josh AZ: Christians only hope is to recruit in areas of the World that there is profound ignorance.

      Gotcha. That explains what’s going on at the USAF Academy in the Springs and in the armed forces as a whole.

      http://www.jewsonfirst.org/07a/clm_afacademy.html

      http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/07/30/the-christian-right-and-religious-coercion-in-the-military.htm

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:48 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 48 · 1EqualityUSA

      Only those who lack faith resort to oppression.

      Isn’t that precisely what Cassandra is trying to convince us of with respect to atheists?

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 44 · schlukitz : “And, how come the “believers” get a tax exemption to “spread the word”, while the “non-believers” not only do not get a tax exemption for telling the scientific truth and exposing the lies and discrimination of organized religions, but are forced to pick up the slack of those who pay no taxes while being told to sit down and STFU.”

      Err, I hate to burst your bubble, but according to http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html anyone who qualifies can set up a 501(c)(3) organization for various “exempt purposes”, defined in http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=175418,00.html as follows: “The exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3) are charitable, religious, educational, scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or international amateur sports competition, and preventing cruelty to children or animals.”

      BTW. while anyone, including religious types, can lawfully tell you to STFU, you can lawfully tell them the same thing.

      If you want to set up a tax-exempt organization to promote atheism (which is a religious belief), go for it – that is your legal right. I suspect the real “problem” is that most atheist don’t see the need for such an organization nor any reason to contribute money to one.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

      Feb 21, 2010 at 3:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @schlukitz: Cassandra = getreal?

      There can’t be two on the loose from the Mental Health Maximum Security Unit at once.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 4:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Cassandra should speak on this, Schlukitz. Oppressed minorities should be given understandable leeway, since they speak from a less powerful place. Cassandra may not have this concept in her psyche. That is only my guess. She should answer your question.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 4:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      B —but you can certainly contribute to AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Just a thought.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 4:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @B: However difficult it is for you, try to be so stupid B.

      Humans, that is to say non-religious people, know how the predatory cults get their unfair tax breaks.

      We want to abolish them and take other steps to cripple them like secularizing their miseducational centers and medical facilites without compensation. We slso want to require the cults to pay for armed guards to protect children when priests, pastors, monks, nuns, and rabbis are near.

      And etc.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 4:08 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      It cost only 25 bucks to join the AU, but strengthening the Church-State wall is imperative. History repeats itself. Never forget this.
      From the desk of Barry W. Lynn
      forward this message
      The 2009 “Values Voter Summit” in Washington D.C. was a battle cry from the Religious Right to its followers across the country. Americans United sent several staffers to sit in on the summit, and they reported that it was clear the speakers’ main intention was to spark anger towards the current administration and galvanize activists for a new front in the “culture wars.”
      The rhetoric was frequently quite extreme. One speaker attacked church-state separation as an idea dreamed up by Hitler. Several called for ending all public support for family planning. Others insisted that Religious Right activists need to “take back” America.
      You can give AU the resources we need to stand up to this radical movement, by joining AU’s Madison Society monthly giving program or making a one-time donation today.
      Workshops at the Values Voter Summit included:
      True Tolerance: Countering the Homosexual Agenda in Public Schools
      Marriage: Why It’s Worth Defending and how Redefining it Threatens Religious Liberty
      Obamacare: Rationing Your Life Away
      These workshops and numerous others like them were extended attacks on LGBT Americans, public education, secular health care and true religious liberty, and provided training to “values voters” to push for public policy dictated by fundamentalist religion.
      The report sent to me by the AU staffers who attended the summit concluded: “In the coming months, we can expect a surge in Religious Right activity as leaders and activists demonize health-care reform in favor of faith-based policies, challenge federal laws that protect citizens from religious discrimination, and preach far and wide for a wave of new activism and plans to reach the next generation.” We must do all we can to deflect these attacks on the church-state wall.
      Please help equip Americans United for the task, by becoming a monthly donor or making a one-time contribution today!
      Americans United for Separation of Church and State
      518 C Street, NE Washington, DC 20002
      202.466.3234
      membership@au.org

      Feb 21, 2010 at 4:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 56 · Peter wrote: “B —but you can certainly contribute to AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. Just a thought.” If you want to, go ahead, but as I said, most atheists aren’t going to bother joining or contributing to an organization to proselytize atheism.

      No. 57 · Bill Perdue then rants incoherently by writing, “@B: However difficult it is for you, try to be so stupid B.
      Humans, that is to say non-religious people, know how the predatory cults get their unfair tax breaks.”

      So, “Bill Perdue” seems to think that religious people aren’t humans, ignoring all the scientific evidence we have to the contrary. You know, things like DNA sequencing.

      As I said, you have the same right to set up a 503(c)(3) organization pushing atheism and the Catholic Church has for pushing its religion, and then you can play the same tax games
      they do.

      It’s pretty dumb for people to complain when I cited the relevant IRS rules, publicly available on the IRS’s web site.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 4:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      The AU strengthens the Church-State wall. Atheism denies the spiritual concept. The two have different purposes. There are many religious member in the AU. We believe that religion should be free, but not to politically oppress. Those who lack faith resort to oppression.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 52 · B

      I knew that it was only a matter of time before you found a reason to climb on my back, as seems to be your need with just about everyone who posts on these threads.

      Rather than just taking issue with what others think and say, however, perhaps, just once, you could come up with a meaningful and well formulated concept of your own to put forth, instead of just playing the role of nit-picker. In other words, contribute something instead of just being an au contraire, Monsieur pismire.

      As to your assertion that atheism is a religious belief, that, sir, is a disingenuous lie. Atheism, on the contrary, is the completer lack of all of the things that religion is based on; i.e., an invisible sky-daddy, Immaculate Conceptions, a savior, dead people rising, angels, heaven and hell, life eternal and all of the other idiotic clap-trap they invented to befuddle and hood-wink humanity and enslave them. Hence, atheism is NOT a religion as so many of the sky-daddy people like to claim.

      Ergo, there is nothing to organize about, lie about and invent falsehoods about in order to keep the belief alive or propagate it to a bunch of ignorant people who cannot think for themselves, despite all of your BS about IRS rules.

      YOU either believes (religion)…or you doesn’t! (atheism) Put that in your Funk & Wagnall’s.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 54 · Bill Perdue

      @schlukitz: Cassandra = getreal?

      Yeah, Bill. I sure do see the similarity here. Wonder if it’s her…under a pseudonym?

      She and ACIMNH sure busted my balls (and me) in another time and place awhile back.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:16 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 55 · 1EqualityUSA

      Thanks, sweetheart. I am hoping that Cassandra will answer my question. :)

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      “Put that in your Funk & Wagnall’s.” Don’t send Nancy Elliott into a panic again.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:20 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 61 · schlukitz wrote, “No. 52 · B I knew that it was only a matter of time before you found a reason to climb on my back, as seems to be your need with just about everyone who posts on these threads.” …. “On your back”??? Give me a break. It is hardly my fault that you statement that one does “not get a tax exemption for telling the scientific truth” is factually wrong, as a quote of IRS rules clearly shows.

      You seem to think you have some divine right to post factually-challenged statements with nobody else having an equal right to post the facts.

      “As to your assertion that atheism is a religious belief, that, sir, is a disingenuous lie.” It is not a lie: if the statement
      “God exists” is a religious belief, so is its negation – both are beliefs about religious entities. Furthermore, the context was with regard to what would qualify as a religion under IRS rules, which have to be constitutional, and the government is forbidden from giving one religion or religious belief special status over any other one, including atheism.

      Then you say, “Atheism, on the contrary, is the completer lack of all of the things that religion is based on; i.e., an invisible sky-daddy, Immaculate Conceptions, a savior, dead people rising, angels, heaven and hell, life eternal and all of the other idiotic clap-trap they invented to befuddle and hood-wink humanity and enslave them.” Now, this might be a bit more reasonable if you wrote “e.g.” instead of “i.e.”, but as stated it is pure nonsense – Taoism, for example, has no notion of “Immaculate Conceptions, a savior, dead people rising, angels, heaven and hell.” It does have a notion of something call the Tao, which is (at the risk of oversimplifying) a rather nebulous but ubiquitous entity (or is that non-entity) that somehow keeps the world in balance in some vague sort of way. I’m not sure if that qualifies as your “sky daddy”, but Taoist apparently don’t care whether you believe it or not, and neither does the Tao (which it seems doesn’t “care” at all).

      You’d be in a lot less trouble intellectually if you’d restrict your rants to ones against fundamentalist Christianity.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 60 · 1EqualityUSA

      Those who lack faith resort to oppression.

      I respectfully disagree. That is a generalization and an over-simplification. Does my asking, nay demanding, that religion(s) get it’s laws off my body make me guilty of oppression

      And Hitler being accused of being an atheist>/i> is another cheap-shot, used by the religious right to justify their hatred of atheists.

      http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 65 · B

      The dissector has spoken…yet again. LOL

      You’d be in a lot less trouble intellectually

      Simply YOUR opinion, Sir. And one of many that have no basis in fact, I might add.

      Babble on, girlfriend. I am easily amused. ;P

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 64 · 1EqualityUSA

      Don’t send Nancy Elliott into a panic again.

      LOL I love it.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I see what you are saying. My statement should read, “Christians, lacking faith, resort to oppression.” The second part of your post must not be directed towards me, as I don’t recall ever having talked about Hitler nor his religious stance.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      Religion used to be referd to as the opiate of the masses, Now these rightwing lunatics have hijacked religion and have infected it with their insane brand of hate to incite violence and murder in the name of religion. The islamic fundamentalists, the American rightwing lunatics, the ugandan preachers of hate feel their religions “beliefs” entitle them to demand death and imprisonment for Gays. These subhuman scumbags are no better than the followers of the nazis who masacared six million Jews and Gays. One must look back in amazment at the founders of this country who long ago predicted the need to set one of the core building blocks of our nation, the separation of church and state.

      It never ceases to amaze me that the followers of any religion feel their “beliefs” entitle them to have an negative impact on my life……….

      Feb 21, 2010 at 5:59 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      B has a place in the conversation, Schlukitz. I enjoy his so called “nit-picking” because it helps clarify the issues. There is room for all to speak, in a democracy. Hate speech needs curtailing, as words soon become action. Nancy Elliott is a good example of a person resorting to hate speech. B is neither hateful nor ludicrous. I like B’s input very much, even if we disagree. Such is life on Queerty.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      o. 67 · schlukitz tried to cover up by writing, “No. 65 · B The dissector has spoken…yet again. LOL ‘You’d be in a lot less trouble intellectually’ Simply YOUR opinion, Sir. And one of many that have no basis in fact, I might add.”

      Typical response of a guy who has a losing “argument” and knows it – he got the facts wrong but is trying to maintain appearances anyway, like the little boy with his hand caught in the cookie jar denying the obvious.

      Hint – it shouldn’t be too hard for Schlukitz to improve. Just use “fundamentalism” instead of religion and refrain from conspiracy theories about tax-exempt status that ignore the real issue – large-scale religious organizations meddling in elections
      because of a quirk in the tax laws (atheist organizations could in principle do the same thing, except that their budgets are so much smaller).

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:15 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 71 · 1EqualityUSA : “B has a place in the conversation, Schlukitz. I enjoy his so called “nit-picking” because it helps clarify the issues. There is room for all to speak, in a democracy. Hate speech needs curtailing, as words soon become action.” … just to add some more to that thought, we should keep in mind that religious fanatics can read these posts as well and probably do, in order to find things they can use to their advantage.

      That’s one reason for making the complaints about “religion” a lot more focussed on the real problem. The fanatics would like to be able to have “evidence” that gays or gay-friendly individuals are trying to interfere in religious institutions. Such evidence, no matter how flimsy, is useful for getting more moderate religious groups on board by pointing them to common threat. It’s counterproductive to help them out, and in the Prop Eight campaign, one of the scare tactics was that religious organizations would be persecuted if same-sex marriage is allowed, so we know they’d try to use such arguments no matter how bogus.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      so what you are saying is, “size maters.” arr.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 69 · 1EqualityUSA

      Thank you for the clarification. I knew it didn’t fly (not your style) as stated, and which was the only reason why I brought your attention to it. :)

      You have never, to my recollection, talked about Hitler or his religious stance. Nor, was the second part of my post directed at you, and I heartily apologize if it was taken that way. I should have been clearer.

      That portion of my comment was aimed at Cassandra and those who have often tossed Hitler’s supposed atheism at me as justification for their attacking me personally as an atheist. This is also something you have never done, despite the fact that you are a believer and I am not, and you have my deepest respect for that.

      It’s bad enough we gays are obliged to have to defend ourselves on a so-called gay site from all the homophobes and rabble-rousers who come here to spew their bile, but when we must also have to defend our right not to believe, on this same site, the shit is truly hitting the fan, and getting hard to shovel, as the old adage goes.

      It is not the concept of a higher diety, that disturbs me. As I have often posted on this site, and which I sure Bill Purdue will attest to, I would fight to the death to defend anyone’s right to worship whomever and whatever they see fit. It is only when the religious dogma interferes with my life and prevents me from the pursuit of life, liberty and happiness that I am entitled to as an American-Born citizen and taxpayer, that I get vocal about religion per se.

      People like getreal, whom you are probably not familiar with and Cassandra, who have all of the rights heteros enjoy, simply cannot grasp the pain and suffering people like me and some of my friends have to endure because their belief system does not agree with ours. My Philippine partner of some seven years now, are obliged to live on opposite sides of the world because of their beliefs and that is where my upset with religion stems from.

      And until I met my partner online, I too, like so many others, did not have a clue about this horrible discrimination bi-national couples have to endure, as well as the legal benefits for which we pay taxes that are denied to us. Nor, was I aware of the extent in which religion has been involved in denying these rights to us. Walk. Mile. Shoes.

      It’s so easy for people like Cassandra who have nothing invested to spew their rhetoric, their morality, their bigotry and their discrimination when they are sitting on top of the dung heap.

      It’s quite another matter, however, when when one is at the bottom of that heap, having shovel-full after shovel-full of dung heaped on one’s head, 24/7, as so often occurs here on
      Queerty and other gay sites.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      B, They would take what they want and distort it to meet their own needs, so being careful about what we say will do little to stop them from lying. Nancy Elliott is a prime example.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Schlukitz, I got the impression that Cassandra was batting for equality, so when you said, “It’s so easy for people like Cassandra who have nothing invested to spew their rhetoric, their morality, their bigotry and their discrimination when they are sitting on top of the dung heap.” it made me go back up and reread her posts. The last line in post #35 does not bode for oppression.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      @schlukitz: Your post should be required reading for all posters to these threads. Far too many times we have to defend ourselves from fellow posters in these threads who feel the best way to win an argument is to snipe at fellow posters with personal fouls………..There are far too many persons taking shots from us on the outside to have to fend off salvos from “fellow Gays”……….A circular firing squad kind of defeats the purpose

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:45 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      “A circular firing squad kind of defeats the purpose” I love this. Did you make this up, Terrwill.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 6:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 77 · 1EqualityUSA

      The last line in post #35 does not bode for oppression.

      In the U.S., most of the supporters of GLBTQ civil equality are Christians or Jews, just as most of the opponents of slavery, miscengenation laws, gender-based inequality, were Christians or Jews.

      How much Sawsbucks Latte does it take to get that one to go down smoothly?

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:06 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 76 · 1EqualityUSA “B, They would take what they want and distort it to meet their own needs, so being careful about what we say will do little to stop them from lying. Nancy Elliott is a prime example.” … it won’t stop them from lying outright, but it is easier to get away with demonizing the opposition when fabricating text isn’t needed.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      The only alternative to that is self-induced censorship. Censorship of any sort is not freedom. It’s better to turn over the rock and look at the entire picture. Anything less is lying by omission.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Schlukitz, I’m under the impression that more people will need to hear our plight and join our fight in order to make equality under U.S. law happen. If a Christian, a Jew, a conservative lawyer, or anyone else says that we, in the queer community, are being unfairly treated and discrimination needs to come to an end, I’m appreciative. Anger can be effective, but don’t let it isolate.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 83 · 1EqualityUSA

      I’m under the impression that more people will need to hear our plight and join our fight in order to make equality under U.S. law happen.

      I totally agree.

      If a Christian, a Jew, a conservative lawyer, or anyone else says that we, in the queer community, are being unfairly treated and discrimination needs to come to an end, I’m appreciative.

      Again, I totally agree. And, just like you, I am totally appreciative.

      I just have a problem with people who not only eat a slice of the pie, but come back and devour the rest of it as well, if you get my drift. ;P

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      “A boy doesn’t have to go to war to be a hero; he can say he doesn’t like pie when he sees there isn’t enough to go around”
      Edgar Watson Howe

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      @1EqualityUSA: Yes, after observing the antics of so many of the posters on these threads it came to me as painfully obbvious…………

      Schlukitz and I were just lamenting on another thread how sad it it that these threads have been infected with so many who spew the same vile poo the right wing loves to toss at us at other posters……..Instead of interesting dialouge, a thread reverts to a grammer schoolyard where bullies toss around insults to “make their points”………

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      The highest compliment ever paid to A.U. (Americans United For Separation of Church and State) from the Tedious Right is that the A.U. is, “dangerous.” It is a testament to our community that so many are showing up. Sort of like those crows landing on the jungle gym in Alfred Hitchcock’s, “The Birds.” You and Schlukitz are both Tippi Hedren’s, wearing smart suits, with birds attaching themselves and ravenously pecking at your flesh, is all. When Queerty is called, “dangerous”, I’ll know we’ve arrived.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 82 · 1EqualityUSA wrote, “The only alternative to that is self-induced censorship. Censorship of any sort is not freedom. It’s better to turn over the rock and look at the entire picture. Anything less is lying by omission.”

      … the alternative I had in mind was simply accuracy and good writing. For example, not blaming “religion” in cases where the problem is really “fundamentalist (and usually monotheistic) religion”. It’s not the Taoists, Wiccans, and Buddhists who funding anti-LGBT campaigns, yet they are getting blamed too as Taoism, Wicca, and Buddhism are also religions.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 7:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      @1EqualityUSA: As long as we are all wearing “smart suites”, I’ll go long for the pecking ………… : P

      Feb 21, 2010 at 8:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Just as there are those on the fringes at Queerty, there are those on the fringes of Christianity. For every time you cringe at what another, in the gay community, has said, I would bet there are religious people cringing at the hateful things said in the name of God. The common denominator is human. Your alternative is ideal, as simple accuracy and good writing are worth striving for. Disappointment is not a road block, but rather, a back drop.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 8:02 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Terrwill, I’ll suit up for the pecker party.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 8:04 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Well, I must do something productive. Meine Frau has been studying all day at the dining room table. I love you all and have enjoyed our conversation very much, but, as Joe Turner, Elvis, and Jesse Stone would say, “Get out from that kitchen and rattle those pots and pans.” I must go rustle up some vittles for my hard-working woman. (Something tells me that cooking is not the subject of these lyrics.) Be good to yourselves. Happy bird watching.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 8:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Peter
      Peter

      B——another thought for you. A.U. is not just for atheists. It is for ALL of the religious people too. When ever one religion gets into the government, all of the rest are vulnerable to the wishes of those in power. I would guess that most of the wars ever fought on this planet had a religious underpinning in their creation. (This conclusion was arrived at after spending last winter reading a history book on histories of the European and adjacent countries.) Religious differences were nearly always the motivators.

      Another thought—-Do you suppose the Christians have noticed how the Muslim faith is spreading throughout the world? If they are at all worried; maybe it may be in their best interests to keep the ‘religion rules’ out of the government, or THEY may be required to live with the result.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 8:25 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • terrwill
      terrwill

      @Peter: Your little nugget about the muslim faith spreading its tenatcles is excellent! The adherents to islam are very open in their belief that you must adopt their beliefs of they feel they have every right to take your life…….The uncheked spread of the muslim faith in Europe is beginning to wreak havok on their socieities…Those people care nothing about what any other religions values or core beliefs are. Simply depicting mohamad in a cartoon can cause tens of thousands to pour into the streets in violent protest…..Here you have a perfect example of those who wanted to tear down the walls of separation of church and state to live the old adage of Be carefull of what you wish for….Because your wish may come true……

      Feb 21, 2010 at 8:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 88 · B

      … the alternative I had in mind was simply accuracy and good writing. For example, not blaming “religion” in cases where the problem is really “fundamentalist (and usually monotheistic) religion”. It’s not the Taoists, Wiccans, and Buddhists who funding anti-LGBT campaigns, yet they are getting blamed too as Taoism, Wicca, and Buddhism are also religions.

      You’re preaching to the choir. My posts have consistently been aimed at the religious right…specifically the Christians and the Mormons. It was YOU who added those heretofore un-mentiond categories of religion.

      Not once, in any of my posts, did I ever make mention of Taoists, Wiccans, and Buddhists and I challenge you to find any posting of mine in which I did.

      Nor, have there been any specific comments on these threads that I am aware of, accusing Taoists, Wiccans and Buddhists of having funded Prop 8 or having any involvement in it.

      Putting words into people’s mouths and accusing them of having made statements that they did NOT make, is disingenuous and hitting below the belt. It is precisely the tactic that the Christians and Mormons used to strip California’s LGBT community of their right to marry which was already law there which makes you no better than them.

      If you are as concerned about the image that our community projects, then I would suggest that you take a good hard look atimproving your own integrity before hurling stones at others.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 10:00 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 94 · terrwill and No. 93 · Peter

      The myth that the Puritans fled England in search of religious freedom has many similarities to the spread of the Muslim Faith, as evidenced in this informative article.

      http://doxos.blogspot.com/2009/03/freedom-of-religion-in-myth-of-pilgrims.html

      The common thread that seems to weave itself throughout a great many of the worlds major religions is Do it our way, or else.

      The above space was intentionally left blank for Bs disclaimer, which is sure to follow. ;P

      Feb 21, 2010 at 10:18 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Drat. Queerty closed the space. :(

      Feb 21, 2010 at 10:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 85 · 1EqualityUSA

      “A boy doesn’t have to go to war to be a hero; he can say he doesn’t like pie when he sees there isn’t enough to go around”
      Edgar Watson Howe

      By posting this Edgar Watson Howe quote, however gallant of the boy, it seems apparent that you didn’t get my drift, as I had hope that you would.

      The last line in my post number 84 was made with respect to Cassandra’s aggrandizing and disingenuous statement that…

      In the U.S., most of the supporters of GLBTQ civil equality are Christians or Jews, just as most of the opponents of slavery, miscengenation laws, gender-based inequality, were Christians or Jews.

      Cassandra has yet to offer any of us a source for that postulation or empirical evidence that this is, in fact, true. She slings it at us like a bag of shit (even if it is a wonderful ala Firesign Theater bag of shit) and then runs off to compose her next rant in which she also has no documentation to support her allegations.

      Yet, in spite of that lack of documentation, it would seem from your recent posts, that you are supportive of her position(s) even though it has elicited a number of justifiably and diametrically opposed responses, my own included.

      I have no doubt that there were some some Christians and Jews who were supporters of GLBTQ Civil equality as well as being opponents of slavery, miscengenation laws and gender-based inequality (a slice of pie) but to claim that most Christians and Jews were (the whole pie), is a long reach and an assertion that she has been unable to substantiate.

      In fact, there is a wealth of information on the net and in the libraries of this nation, that would indicate otherwise, hence the need for the Federal Government to step in and pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to put an end to the unjust segregation, abuse, mistreatment and lynching of black people.

      The point that I am laboring to make is that if one is going to make definitive statements, as Cassandra has done, then the burden is on the writer to assure the accuracy of such statements. Anything less than that is laziness…and totally lacking integrity.

      And as to the Tippi Hedron analogy,it must not be directed towards me or Terwill either as I don’t recall either of us ever having talked about your feminine or masculine traits as a woman. Speaking strictly for myself now, and given that you do not know what I look like, I do not take it as a compliment being compared to a dainty, haughty, 50s fashionista lady, who would probably deign it beneath her to have to boil water for a cup of coffee while being totally dependent on her male companion (Rod Taylor) to save her from the “Birds”. My femininity/masculinity is not on trial here.

      I will give you the benefit of the doubt, however, as to the smart suits being a fashion statement, as opposed to us being two asshats trying to be smart asses. In either event, however, I don’t believe that either Terwill or I have ever taken it upon ourselves to comment on your choice of attire, whatever that might be.

      I would like to think that Terwill and I have conducted ourselves as gentlemen and who have been completely complimentary in our exchanges of dialogue with you on these threads. If that has not been the case, then I am certain that both us us would be in dire need of knowing how we offended, so that the necessary and proper apologies can be made.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 11:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      No harm was meant, dear Schlukitz and Terrwill. The scene being recalled was a gripping, suspenseful horror that soon had Tippi covered in birds, running for her life. This analogy was an attempt to humorously extend Terwill’s lament. Thanks for extending benefit of doubt. Girls, boys, feminine, masculine, does not mean a whole lot to me. It means a lot to others however, so I’ll cut back on humor. Sorry to have offended you.

      Feb 21, 2010 at 11:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      I am certain that no harm was meant, dear 1EqualityUSA and I do appreciate your taking the time to reassure Terwill and I of that fact. I have always known you to be a lady, and your response has totally reassured me of that. To use a compliment you once paid me, you are a good egg.

      Unfortunately, this has not exactly been an upbeat day for me and having just read on another thread about the two asshat Canadian sportscasters commenting about Johnny Weir’s Faggyness giving figure skating a bad image, was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. Having spent most of the day defending my own Faggyness with mean-spirited posters on line, I am afraid that I took my upset out on you.

      I am very familiar with the movie, The Birds, with Suzanne Pleshette and Rod Taylor. The scene that you described was, indeed, very gripping and suspenseful. In fact, I have a copy of it in my video library. It came out in the 50s, as I recall. Having viewed it a couple of times, I can see the humorous correlation you made. Sadly, in the downbeat mood I found myself in this evening, I failed to grasp it.

      Your explanation as well as your apology are both cheerfully and gratefully accepted. I, in turn, would like to apologize for coming across as being a tad too sensitive to your well-intentioned and harmless humorous comment.

      Be assured that there is no need for you to have to cutback on your humor. It is I, who needs to take responsibilty for my feelings and stop giving permission to others to play my emotions like a piano keyboard. ;P

      Feb 22, 2010 at 12:33 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      When I feel this way, I curl up with a good movie:

      http://i.ytimg.com/vi/uyGdYLfQbzQ/0.jpg

      Feb 22, 2010 at 1:08 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Seriously, queer hate will never go away. It’s their problem. Just like the unfounded fears from the Tedious Right is their own problem.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 1:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jerrid
      Jerrid

      @schlukitz: Unfortunately, for all those who have been arguing that atheism is not a religion: it is, as defined by the US court system on more than one occasion. So for the purpose of Cassandra’s statements, which I find terribly silly for the most part, it is an organization that can receive the IRS exemption.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:14 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 103 · Jerrid

      Not wishing to be argumentative, could you kindly point me in the direction of some documentation on both of those issues?

      My Google search seems to be coming up with voluminous arguments to the contrary.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:27 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 95 · schlukitz wrote, “You’re preaching to the choir. My posts have consistently been aimed at the religious right…specifically the Christians and the Mormons. It was YOU who added those heretofore un-mentiond categories of religion.
      Not once, in any of my posts, did I ever make mention of Taoists, Wiccans, and Buddhists and I challenge you to find any posting of mine in which I did.”

      Very disingenuous as what you said was “religion”, which includes
      Taoism, Wicca and Buddhism, so you didn’t have to mention those explicitly. While you may have meant Christian fundamentalists, Mormons, etc., it is not what you actually wrote. Keep in mind that I’m reading your posts, not reading your mind.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      @Cassandra: Now I’m confused! You are accusing the athiests of mud slinging. Aren’t you doing the same? I am lesbian and wiccan, and I have no problem with athiests. I only mourn the evils that have been commited in the name of ‘religon’.Religon (or the lack of it)isn’t evil,but those who use it as an excuse for their personal agendas are.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:45 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 105 · B

      And you can keep this in mind.

      Middle finger extended in air

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:46 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 93 · Peter “B——another thought for you. A.U. is not just for atheists. It is for ALL of the religious people too.”

      But it is not a thought for me. I was replying to a comment about tax breaks and simply pointed out that most atheists aren’t going to bother proselytizing atheism for the same reason most adults don’t go around proselytizing the belief that there is no tooth fairy, so they aren’t likely to set up a 501(c)(3) organization to do that as it would be hard to get funding. The problem in this respect is not unfair tax rules – you can get the same tax breaks to preach “There is no God” as you can to preach that there is one. Rather it is lack of interest.

      There are issues regarding taxation policies when large religious organizations start meddling in political campaigns (e.g., initiatives). The IRS rules allow a small fraction of a 501(c)(3)’s income to go to supporting such campaigns. The problem is that a religious organization with the financial resources of the Roman Catholic Church (nationwide if not worldwide) can stay within those limits and still provide a significant level of funding relative to all that is spent on a particular campaign. Given the anti-LGBT policies of the Catholic Church, that is a real cause for concern.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 107 · schlukitz wrote, “No. 105 · B And you can keep this in mind. Middle finger extended in air” … as if I care about your personal problems and your apparent need to take an anger-management class.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:53 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      It got awfully quiet here all of a sudden.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:04 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 109 · B

      as if I care about your personal problems and your apparent need to take an anger-management class.

      Ah, but you DO care, Monsieur.

      The fact you keep responding to my posts, proves it. If you truly didn’t care, you’d just ignore me. ;P

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:18 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 110 · stormeyes

      It got awfully quiet here all of a sudden.

      Well, as you have probably noticed, it takes a lot muck-raking and shit-slinging to keep the conversation going. LOL

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:23 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      @schlukitz:

      Well, as you have probably noticed, it takes a lot muck-raking and shit-slinging to keep the conversation going. LOL

      Yeah, I did notice! My message (106)got compleatly ignored! LOL, not nasty enough I guess.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:32 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      @schlukitz: I think I understand though. People on here are hurting, angry and some are afraid of what the future holds for us all, especially those of us who are gay. So they let it out in a “safe” environment-a blog page. It is supposed to be healthy to do so. At least that is what the nutcrackers say.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:37 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 113 · stormeyes

      Actually, your message no. 106 was noticed by me. Cassandra’s a dead horse, so I guess everyone has gotten tired of beating on her. LOL

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:42 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 114 · stormeyes

      That’s a very astute observation on your behalf and I do believe that you’re right. Like beating on a pillow, it’s a harmless way to vent.

      Let’s face it. If we were to say half of the things said on these threads, directly to someone’s face, most of us would be walking around with eyes that looked like two piss holes in a snow bank. lol

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:48 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      @schlukitz: I wasn’t wanting to beat up on her, I just wanted to point out that she was in the same mudpit with everyone else. I just hoped she could stop for a second and think about it. Anger fuels more anger,it’s a vicious circle.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:50 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      @schlukitz: I think that is why most blogs I have seen are so full of anger, it it safe and as you said–no black eyes or broaken noses!!

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      I meant–it IS safe–blush.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:54 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      Well, this is my last post tonight, I can only say that I feel so sorry for the children of parents who think like this man. To be told by the parents (who supposidly loved you yesterday) that they no longer think of you as fit to love or even to live just because you are not attracted to people of the oposite sex, is hidious! I am so lucky, my parents only said that while they didn’t understand, they loved me and as long as I was happy and well treated, they would be happy for me. My partner and I have been togeather for 14 years and she is loved like a daughter! Good night all, I hope you all are blessed with life love and laughter.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 4:06 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 117 · stormeyes

      @schlukitz: I wasn’t wanting to beat up on her

      My apologies, Sir. I had not meant to imply that you wished to beat up on her. Just from the few things you’ve said thus far, I have already gotten the impression that you are a mild-mannered gentleman who would prefer to say kind things about other people as opposed to being nasty. I truly respect that.

      I was using the term figuratively…if not facetiously. I could not agree with you more, that anger fuels more anger, especially if that anger is not channeled in a positive and constructive manner.

      Nice to have you aboard these threads. I hope you will continue to share your thoughts and feelings with us. I think you will find that there are quite a number of really nice people who post a little earlier than we are currently doing.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 4:10 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Woops…another apology is in order. I addressed you as Sir, when I should have said M’aam.

      Now, it’s my turn to blush. HeeHee

      And a pleasant, good night to you as well. Do come back to see us again.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 4:13 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • stormeyes
      stormeyes

      I will certainly do my best, and I took your comment as a compliment, even with the wrong gender.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 4:21 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Rob
      Rob

      Oh I believe in sin baby, you’ve helped me with that. I’m not denying anything to make myself feel better; I’m just not an idiot that will believe anything I’m told. Waist your life worshiping something thats not their, see if I give a f**k. I don’t need some man in the clouds shaking his fists at me from thousands of years ago for me to have morals. You damn christians need the threat of hell to have morals. I understand right and wrong without your christian crap.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 9:22 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      I think what bemuses and angers me is that all my life I’ve had to take abuse about my sexuality from religions. But whenever one returns the insult, by:

      1) mocking the obviously absurd belief in a sky pixie
      2) By taking away the privileges given to religion within a society
      3) Questioning the sanity of the religious

      Then suddenly YOU area the offensive one.

      You are the one being unreasonable

      You are the person who is being a fanatical, extreme bigot!

      Amazing

      Religion is dying, get fucking used to it.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 9:30 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • travisa
      travisa

      @Lukas P.:
      rge only problem is they can chase you to other country’s they made sure that was in the bill….

      Feb 22, 2010 at 9:52 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Cassandra wrote in #33 “Substantiate your charge by quoting in full and in context, any and all statements from me that indicate I believe it is my right, or anyone’s right, to deny GLBTQ people, like myself, equal rights.”

      “Like myself”
      She’s gay and not afraid to say it. In her quest for equality, she’s pointing out that our intolerance for the Tedious Right is over the top and just as all-encompassing as any form of prejudice. Don’t beat on her too much. She wants equality too. Let young minds work out their conflicts.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 10:38 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Taylor Siluwé
      Taylor Siluwé

      No. 125 · Tallskin

      It would seem religion is dying. I think polls say that youth are turning away from it, with knowledge at everyone’s fingertips and reason on the rise. Whatever. If it is going, like a cornered rat it won’t fade into history without a long bloody fight.

      Notice all the anti-gayness popping up in places other than Uganda. The attack by Christians on out Rugby star Gareth Thomas, saying that by being a role model he’s “promoting sodomy to children”. Stories like this are becoming more and more common as these evangelicals see society growing and becoming more accepting of diversity as an affront to their narrow-minded, lock-step, oppressive brand of faith. So they hop the globe starting little hateful fires.

      Point is, I don’t think religion is dying or will ever die. In the year 2110, when we’re all dead, there will be religion. In the year 2210, with colonies no doubt on other planets, there will be religion. It’s the sickness for which their is no cure. There will always be some charismatic preacher type, fleecing the gullible by the selling the best product ever, one you never actually have to produce – eternal bliss.

      Good luck killing the greatest scam ever conceived.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 11:47 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      Unfortunately true, Taylor (#128) (religion will still be with us) – I just watched “The Einstein of Sex – The Magnus Hirschfeld story”- He helped 10’s of thousands of people, became world famous, and sought-after the world over for counseling etc. Worked tirelessly for a couple decades to overturn Paragraph 175 in Germany and the Nazi’s wiped it all out in a very short while. Indeed, their legacy of book burning and shame is still with us to this day.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 12:36 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I think the man-made mess that religion is, today, is dying. I believe this. Men, playing church, doesn’t cut it any longer. The Truth has a certain pitch and religion today does not attain it. If you really want to know the quality of Spiritual soil a persons’ roots rest in, look to the fruit that they bear. If hatred, oppression, and fear have replaced love, empathy, and enlightenment, the soil inspectors need to come out and take some core samples. Always look to behavior as an indicator of spiritual wealth. Where the Church is dangerously misguided is that, by endorsing discrimination, the danger comes closer to them. Freedom is key to spreading the Gospel, not politics. Is our gay community, oppressed by bigotry, going to find ourselves beholden to a certain party? Whatever party that may be, equality should not be placed on the table. Will equality be out before us, as though it were a carrot, a camper, a door prize? Funneling our community into a system, whereby our equality would come at a price, is a dangerous notion. With the Supreme Court’s decision, the corporate world might even be the ones doing the bartering. Will we, as a community, be coerced into voting for issues that were not our concern? Such is the risk, when inequality is present. It is our duty as Americans to uphold freedom. Politics is corrupt.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 1:27 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 128 · Taylor Siluwé

      I noted your comments with interest. The selling of religion by the preachers and the fanatics is very much akin to the snake-oil sellers of old. Their particular brand of “medicine’ they are hawking, is claimed to be the cure for whatever ails ya.

      The snake-oil peddlers of old are lone gone because no one believes their ridiculous claims anymore.

      The problem is, they have been replaced by the mega-cartel drug companies, many of whom are selling the same crap but in new bottles…under new names…at greatly higher prices…and with the backing of our government.

      That “old-time” religion may be “dying out”, but I have this sneaky suspicion, just like you, that it will still be around in 2110, but packaged in a new “bottle” and under a new name.

      And, we will be paying a hell of a lot more for it…in more ways than one.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chitown Kev
      Chitown Kev

      Oh, I like the turn this discussion has taken.

      IMHO, “religion” will never die. New gods will replace old gods and specific religious beliefs may changes but the basic belief in something (call it what you will) that we can’t see, feel, hear, and touch…

      That will never change. And I don’t think the world would necessarily be worse or better off if it were to change.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:12 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 132 · Chitown Kev

      Oh, I like the turn this discussion has taken.

      I detected a note of snark there.

      Are you saying that you do not like anyone speaking up against organizations that have demonized and traumatized the LGBT community for thousands of years?

      As Tallskin so well noted in his post no. 125, it seems to be perfectly ok for the religious right to blaspheme us, but when we dare to object or try defend ourselves, we become the offensive, the unreasonable and the bigoted ones.

      I don’t think the world would necessarily be worse or better off if it were to change.

      Is that just another way of saying Get used to it?

      Feb 22, 2010 at 2:46 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Chitown Kev
      Chitown Kev

      @schlukitz:

      No, only commenting on the more…philosophical take on the post…it grabbed my attention.

      Don’t read any more into than that. (Although the discussion of what a son would do if a son’s father said this is also interesting).

      No I’m not saying get used to it or anything but I am saying that simply because you have a hypothetical world run according to science and/or empirical facts and the lack of religion doesn’t mean that the world would necessarily be more “just.”

      One of the biggest proponents of slavery was Aristotle, for example.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:13 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 134 · Chitown Kev

      Thanks for the clarification. It was muchly appreciated. Nice to hear from you again.

      but I am saying that simply because you have a hypothetical world run according to science and/or empirical facts and the lack of religion doesn’t mean that the world would necessarily be more “just.

      Well, it would be interesting to see what a hypothetical world that is lacking religion would look like, since we’ve not be availed of that opportunity thus far…just saying. ;P

      Your comment about Aristotle was also noted with interest. A real dichotomy, to be sure. It just goes to prove that no one is perfect, no matter how great they words they say may sound. He, like everyone else on this planet, was just another mortal being with many of the imperfections of the human race embedded within him.

      And that we will all have to get used to. LOL

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:29 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Typo: “be” in the third paragraph should be “been”

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:31 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 111 · schlukitz wrote, “No. 109 · B as if I care about your personal problems and your apparent need to take an anger-management class. Ah, but you DO care, Monsieur.”

      LOL – more dishonesty from you – in No. 109, I indicated quite clearly that I could care less about your personal problems as shown by your figurative “extended middle finger” in No. 107 (figurative under the assumption that you are not so childish as to make hand gestures at a computer screen).

      Feb 22, 2010 at 3:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 134 · Chitown Kev wrote, “simply because you have a hypothetical world run according to science and/or empirical facts and the lack of religion doesn’t mean that the world would necessarily be more ‘just.'” … the problem is that if humans
      could not create religions, there probably wouldn’t be any science or mathematics either because all of them require the ability to develop complex models and abstractions.

      What religions tend to do is to make complex models where you paper over anything that doesn’t work (in many cases you can’t admit those “sacred texts” have any errors). If you drop an old belief, it has to be done quietly or in a way that does not suggest a mistake. A scientific approach tests the models against experiments and observations, throws out the ones that don’t work, and generally goes for ones that minimize the number of basic assumptions. Mathematics more or less derives the consequences of sets of axioms, but the choice of axioms is often based on observing patterns in other areas of mathematics (group theory is a good example). Without the ability to generate those models, however, we would not have any of it.

      See http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/03/religionbrain/ for an indication that there is some research being done on neurological causes for religion.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 4:57 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      “From the real-world standpoint, physical reality uses both discrete structures (in quantum mechanics) and the continuum (elsewhere). We have not yet discerned the ultimate nature of reality–possibly a greater knowledge of the continuum would enable us to make strides in that direction.”

      (How Math Explains the World, by James D. Stein)

      B, I enjoyed the article you submitted in post #138. You must be doing a ton of thinking. I like it.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 5:34 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      more dishonesty from you

      Sounds exactly like the mantra/doublespeak the Christians and the Mormons use…over and over and over, to the point of ad-nauseum.

      Dis-honest people accusing others of being dishonest.

      That’s rich.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Tallskin
      Tallskin

      B. thanks for the link.

      Following on from the research into the brain causes of religion.

      Do you know if a cure is close to discovery?

      If one is close then that would a great boon for humanity.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 5:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 140 · schlukitz wrote, “Sounds exactly like the mantra/doublespeak the Christians and the Mormons use…over and over and over, to the point of ad-nauseum.” …. it’s not my fault that you post dishonest responses repeatedly and don’t like it being pointed out.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 5:50 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Tallskin, the “cure” you seek is from the vantage point of the world. The impetus has more effect on matter than matter on impetus. To echo Cassandra, the thought of “curing” theologians is as heinous as tinkering with hormones to “cure” us of our same-sax attractions. Now do you really want to take it that far? Or are you just perplexed?

      Feb 22, 2010 at 5:54 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 142 · B

      You’re repeating yourself.

      Again!

      Feb 22, 2010 at 6:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 139 · 1EqualityUSA “(How Math Explains the World, by James D. Stein)” …. your citation got one thing a little off: quantum mechanics has both discrete and continuous states. For a “simple” case, the hydrogen atom, the energy levels are discrete when an electron is bound to a proton, but continuous when not. It’s too “off topic” to go into details, unfortunately.

      Glad you liked the citation.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 6:40 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      “Some of the greatest minds in history have endeavored mightily, as did Saint Thomas Aquinas, to prove the existence of a deity; and some equally great minds have endeavored just as mightily to prove that a deity cannot exist. They have utterly failed to convince the other side.”

      How Math Explains the World—James D. Stein

      Feb 22, 2010 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 144 · schlukitz, playing games :No. 142 · B You’re repeating yourself. Again!” …. as schlukitz tries to cover up his repeated behavior, making it a classic case of projection.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 9:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Taylor Siluwé
      Taylor Siluwé

      No. 129 · Jaroslaw

      Thanks for the heads up about Magnus Hirschfeld. I just watched his silent film “Different from the Others” (1919) on YouTube. It’s about a violinist who gets blackmailed over Article 175.

      Some of the lines are memorable:

      “Love for one’s own sex can be just as pure as that for the opposite sex … only ignorance and bigotry can condemn those who feel differently. As a homosexual, you can make valuable contributions to humanity.”

      The film as lists several notables such as Tchaikovsky, da Vinci, Wilde, and couple of kings I never heard of.

      It’s mind-boggling to see such progressive thought in 1919. History was done its best to hetero-wash everything. Thanks to modern tech, we’re reversing that tragedy. This line is? interesting when the Sexologist tells Else (the woman in love with the homosexual):

      “…Give him up. Such people are not suited for marriage. Nature itself forbids it.”

      Sounds like Maggie Gallagher must have run into this sort advice as she lumbered toward being the next Anita Bryant. At least the Sexologist in the film thought oppression was wrong because homosexuality was natural variation of the human condition. However, wedded bliss wasn’t even on the radar then.

      What a wonderful piece of OUR history this film is!!

      Feb 22, 2010 at 9:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      You’re welcome TS. I wasn’t trying to delve into the deep discussion others were having (which is great) – I was trying to point out how quickly things can change. In Germany’s case, the economy was in the toliet and the Nazis manipulated people’s fears.

      Feb 22, 2010 at 10:01 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 149 · Jaroslaw wrote, “You’re welcome TS. I wasn’t trying to delve into the deep discussion others were having (which is great) – I was trying to point out how quickly things can change. In Germany’s case, the economy was in the toliet and the Nazis manipulated people’s fears.”

      … there’s another lesson from Germany’s case as well. Even with the bad economy and fear mongering, the Nazis had only about 1/3 of the seats in parliament. They could have been contained, but the other parties were caught up in fighting among themselves. There inability to cooperate lead to Hitler becoming chancellor. Then what would now be a “terrorist attack”, the Reichstag fire, served as a pretext to put the chancellor in charge of running things until the emergency ended. With that opening, the Nazis quickly took over. The person charged with the fire was a Dutch communist – a nobody that historians now strongly suspect was duped by the Nazis into doing it as they needed a “communist threat” to get the constitution suspended, and of course it stayed suspended until the Fuehrer died with a gun in his hand (the last bit of propaganda the Nazis put out, carefully not mentioning that the gun in his hand was pointed at his own head).

      Feb 22, 2010 at 10:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Jaroslaw
      Jaroslaw

      #150 – you’re right about the history of course, when good men do nothing evil suceeds (in this case as you mentioned the other parties couldn’t cooperate)

      There is also a historical piece someplace encouraging people to vote – and it lists all the tragedies that occurred by only ONE VOTE.

      #148 Taylor – there is no end to the ignorance. I couldn’t help but comment about “nature.” Even in 1880 scientists HAD to know that some animals eat their young, the praying mantis female eats the male after mating etc. So to talk about the “normalcy” of nature regarding people and compare is absurd but more to the point NOT THE TRUTH.

      I’m tired!

      Feb 23, 2010 at 9:01 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 148 · Taylor Siluwé

      I too watched “Different From the Others” (1919) last night.

      You’re right. It is a wonderful piece of OUR history. Glad that most of the film, if not all, survived WWII.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 12:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @schlukitz: Our little ‘b’ is a professional. His job is to defend right wing politicians like Obama and the definitive rightists – the clerical thugs and boy rapists of jebuz christos inc.

      If you point out the rapacity of the cults he’ll say ‘Oh heavens, they’re not all that bad.’ As if that actually meant something. They are all our enemies, it’s just that some, like the Ugandan christers and the mad ayatollahs of Iran can get away with more. What they do is what der Papenfuehrer, Robertson and Swaggart would like to do.

      If you point out that Obama is a right wing centrist who automatically betrays everyone silly enough to believe him (except the looters and warmongers) our little ‘b’ says that Obama is not as bad as Hitler. So? He’s our open enemy and his public opposition to SSM makes him a bigot.

      If Jimmy Swaggart, der papenfuehrer and ayatollah Alisistani are bigots because the oppose equality then so are Obama and McCain. The degree of their bigotry is determined by their opposition to all or part of our agenda for equality and the constraints of their cultures, not their intent.

      Little ‘b’ also tries to divert discussions by frequent personal attacks but squeals like a piglet when treated to a dose of his own medicine.

      Those are common and dangerous tactics for right wingers from the Tories in England ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/dec/20/thinktanks.conservatives ) to Republican teabagger and Obot spin doctor in this country. They can be dangerous – remember what the WMD lies of Clinton and Bush led to. Our little ‘b’ isn’t in that league. He gets shot down for (a lot) for defending rightists and then resorts to pissant personal attacks on non-Obots, atheists and leftists. He’s not especially good at being an apologist for Obama or boy raping – he’s more of a yapping ankle biter – sort of a jebuz lubbin attack Chihuahua.

      Be kind and throw him a wishbone once in a while.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 12:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Dear Bill Perdue,
      Your sentence structure and the way your mind works is fascinating. Your letters read like the truth. Especially these lines:

      “If you point out that Obama is a right wing centrist who automatically betrays everyone silly enough to believe him (except the looters and warmongers) our little ‘b’ says that Obama is not as bad as Hitler. So? He’s our open enemy and his public opposition to SSM makes him a bigot.
      If Jimmy Swaggart, der papenfuehrer and ayatollah Alisistani are bigots because the oppose equality then so are Obama and McCain. The degree of their bigotry is determined by their opposition to all or part of our agenda for equality and the constraints of their cultures, not their intent.”

      What I don’t understand is the mercilessness. It reflects more about you than it does about B. What is a gifted writer going to do with his writing, teach? A teacher needs to met out power judiciously. Anything less would reveal a flaw.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 12:51 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      Hi Bill. So nice to hear from you. I enjoyed reading your post, which is always the case.

      “Lil” B is, indeed, a carbuncle on the backside of humanity. No doubt about that. And his defense of the cults is laughable, to say the least.

      Given his pit-bullish tenacity in critiquing each and every post on these threads, it’s easy to see that he suffers from a compulsion to take a dump on just about everything anyone has to say.

      At first, I chalked this up to his simply being a smart-assed, know-it-all little kid who feels the needc to play one-upsmanship with everyone but, after reading your post, I think that you have hit the nail squarely on the head. As a defender of rabid, right-wingers, he’s a lot more dangerous than I realized.

      Another poster on these threads whose opinions and comments I very much respect said that “B has a place at the table.”

      I gave that much thought and thus far, and not wishing to offend, I restrained myself from responding to that concept. At risk of sounding like I am making a Godwinian statement whose purpose it is to shut down all further conversation on the subject, I had to ask myself the question.

      Would Hitler having a place at the table changed the outcome of WWI?

      Since there is no “winning” an intelligent, logical and factual conversation with him, the best wishbone I could throw him, is to simply ignore him, pismire that he is.

      As Terwill has so often implored me Don’t feed the trolls

      Sage advice, me thinks. LOL

      Have a great day, Bill.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 1:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Schlukitz, Part of what makes Queerty so interesting is the fact that a group of minds are getting together to hash out ideas and discuss events. If we make it difficult for a person to speak, that is censorship. We have an opportunity to come to some realization here, to hone our ideas and possibly make a difference in the country for the gay communities that will follow us. For anyone to be clipped is unwise. We need every mind working. Every mind. If not for us, then for those following.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 1:38 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @1EqualityUSA: Part of what we all do is to clear the air by clarifying agendas. B’s agenda is not our agenda.

      B, when not trying to cultivate people to cover his ass, constantly uses half truths, lies and personal attacks to divert the dicussion away from what’s important.

      In this case it’s the fact the Warren and several rancid ex-gay christers interfered in the internal life of Uganda to set the stage for mass murder. Now Warren tells us he’s not for mass murder but the awful reality is that it may occur. And soon. He also interfered in civil affairs when he used Obama (gawd’s in the mix) to defeat SSM in California. He’ll never have to pay taxes or face prosecution because Obama is his fierce defender.

      ‘b’ defends Obama and he defends religion an d we have to be clear that he’s on the wrong side of the trenches.

      That’s all we need to know about him and if pointing that out is merciless then so be it.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 1:44 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @1EqualityUSA: nobody’s censoring anyone. ‘b’ can talk all he wants as long as we know his story.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 1:52 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      My mind hears written words as though they were music. The music that I heard with your post was as intense, Russian-music-intense. it is truthful.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 1:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 154 · 1EqualityUSA

      As you must be very aware of, I have always admired your way with words, your nuanced style of writing and the balanced manner in which you present your viewpoints. Since you began posting on these threads, I have been in total awe of you.

      Credit given where credit is due, I am noticing, as did Terwill recently, a tendency on your behalf to defend those whose sole purpose it it is to come on these threads for the purpose of muck-raking, shit-stirring, vilifying and condemning the regular posters who have something to say and share with the rest of us, while at the same, getting on the case of those who are trying to defend themselves from these wolves or simply being unwilling to take crap from smart-assed, know-it-all, still-wet-behind-the-ears, kids like B who have nothing of value to add to the conversation.

      What I don’t understand is the mercilessness. It reflects more about you than it does about B. What is a gifted writer going to do with his writing, teach? A teacher needs to met out power judiciously. Anything less would reveal a flaw.

      Like motorcycle cops of old, people like David Letterman, Bussy and B lurk behind billboards in the hope of trapping an unwary speeder or a motorist with faulty safety equiment and have no interest in hearing an explanation from the motorist. They’ve got citations (and criticisms and warnings)to hand out, and that is the ONLY thing they are interested in.

      I am truly sorry, but I cannot hold my piece here. Those of us who post regularly on these threads, do not come here as teachers. We’ll leave that task to the schoolmarms.

      What we do come here for, is to share those thoughts, feelings and fears that are common to the LGBT community and we do so in the belief and hope that this is a safe, secure, gay port, amidst a sea of troubled waters, in which to do so and in which to feel free from scorn, derision and attack. If not here, then where, I ask?

      A prime example of what I am saying, might be if a psychiatrist, for example, cannot provide an environment that is free from hecklers, provocateurs and scene-stealers, how can he possibly expect his patient to feel safe and secure enough to open up with him and make any headway in helping his patient work his way through his problems because he is too busy defending himself?

      And, if the only thing the psychiatrist can do, is tell the patient that he needs to make a place at the table for those who drove him into the psychiatrist’s lap in the first place, then to my way of thinking, that psychiatrist is as worthless at tits on a bull and deserves to have his license yanked.

      It would appear from your comment, that you are quick to reprimand Bill for his, and I quote here “mercilessness”, while defending Bs ongoing, relentless, tiring, merciless and vilifying personal attacks on everyone who posts on these threads.

      Not quite as extreme as David Letterman, his snark, his insults and his rudeness are no more welcome on this site, than Mr. Letterman’s. While the Bs of the world may, indeed, have a place at the table, when they finally do succeed in driving everyone away from that table, who will be left to have a meaningful dialogue, I ask?

      Now, it is I who is perplexed?

      Feb 23, 2010 at 2:11 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      The music that I heard with your post was as intense, Russian-music-intense. it is truthful.

      Right on! And, I just happen to like Russian-music-intense, which is one of the reasons why I like to listen to Bill.

      But, most of all, I enjoy his music because it IS truthful.

      Not a man to dance around the Mulberry bush, he. I respect that.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 2:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I respect him too. I also respect you and B. We need to pull the best from each other. We have enough enemies.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 2:23 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 162 · 1EqualityUSA

      We need to pull the best from each other.

      We are already getting the best from Bill, hence no need to “pull”.

      When might we expect the best from our darling little B?

      Should I hold my breath?

      Feb 23, 2010 at 2:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I also don’t like dog-piling. Never have. I took on one of the biggest, meanest bullies known to the eight grade, because she was verbally abusing a sobbing girl in the locker room. I guess it just comes over me, Schlukitz.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 2:33 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 153 · Bill Perdue, a liar, went into personal attack mode by writing, “@schlukitz: Our little ‘b’ is a professional. His job is to defend right wing politicians like Obama and the definitive rightists – the clerical thugs and boy rapists…” [rest of Perdue's lies snipped]

      All of this stuff about my “job” is a bald-faced lie. If it wasn’t for the fact that I just used a letter instead of my real name, Bill Perdue would find himself in court being sued for libel.

      What makes people like Perdue and schlukitz a real disaster is that neither of them is capable of an honest discussion about an issue – anyone who disagrees with them is treated to a series of baseless, often juvenile, personal attacks. Both should get some professional help – maybe an anger-management class. Given how they lie, however, nobody in his right mind would believe anything they say without independent proof.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 2:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      The part about you working for an agency or the “other side” didn’t ring true, but the side tracking of the issues did. We all do it. In this one thread, alone, we’ve discussed everything from Odonga to Obama. From atheists to god. From math to mysticism. I love it. I so wish we all could play poker together. I’d break out the green Flannel table cloth and have a blast. (How can you tell when a lesbian band is a hit? When their first album goes flannel.) B, have some fun too.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 2:53 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 164 · 1EqualityUSA

      No one is dog-piling or verbally abusing here, except B. The facts are being told as they are, so as my dad used to say Let the chips fall where the may I also don’t relate or appreciate being compared to one of the biggest, meanest bullies known to the eighth grade

      To begin with, I never said a fucking word to B. I had already been made aware of his rep by a number of others regulars on these threads. He tossed the first stone, as is his M.O. and then cries No fairsies when we pick up that stone and sling it back at him. And Bill is not the first person to make that observation.

      I am the first to rush to the defense of the underdog, providing of course, that he/she deserves being defended. It comes over me as well. And, like you,I too, took on a bully while in junior high school who was verbally and physically abusing one of my classmates simply because of the fact that he was of small build, somewhat feminine and unable to defend himself.

      If there are any meanies here, then please place the titles where they rightfully belong, not on those of us who are being subjected to Bs dog-piling.

      Werner Erhard, the founder of “EST” said “Take full responsibility for what you say and do in life”

      Sage advice. When does B take responsibility?

      Sir Isaac Newton said “To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction

      Was B snoozing during Science 101, or just out to lunch?

      Feb 23, 2010 at 3:07 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      When I said, “dog-piling” I had Cassandra in mind. We are so hard on each other that it makes me believe that pain is responsible. Let’s, as a community, not let that bar drop. Pain is responsible for much of the word talk going on here. To recognize this early is to progress to the next level. Let’s also enjoy the experience. The mind, each human mind, is another universe. Let’s go where no man has gone before. Beam me up, Scottie. Oh– I must be productive today. There are four red-heads waiting for me in the kitchen. They got the beet. Shallots o’ luck come their way. Feta, too. Lettuce enjoy each other. We are all in the same bowl. Olive my love to you, and, as Fredrich would say, most cheerfully, and yu, and yu, and yu. Salads, in the middle of winter, all Ayurvedic ears are perking?

      Feb 23, 2010 at 3:26 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 154 · 1EqualityUSA wrote, “What I don’t understand is the mercilessness. It reflects more about you than it does about B.”

      Their “mercilessness” seems to preclude telling the truth about what I’ve actually said! In the text you quoted, Perdue said, “our little ‘b’ says that Obama is not as bad as Hitler.” In fact, I made no such comparison whatsoever. They also accused me of “defending” religious cults when in fact I merely suggested that they target the cults and not religion in general. Why try to make enemies of people who could be supporting you? Then they accuse me of “personal attacks” when I point out that their lies are in fact lies. It seems they think they have a right to lie about people with impunity.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 3:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 158 · Bill Perdue

      B is like that obnoxious, irritating and persistent mosquito that keeps buzzing around you, trying to suck your blood, but is faster than the hand each time you try to swat him and just keeps coming back, time and time again because, like a moth to the flame, the smell of blood is just too overpowering to resist.

      Pity that Queerty does not have an “ignore” button like the one Gay.com has in their chat room. LOL

      Feb 23, 2010 at 3:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I’ve seen this. I don’t know how to advise you. I suppose you would need to pick the issues that matter the most to you and use your words to propel your ideal. Any words that distract from your ideal would be pared away, conflicts would slip away too. Mercy is called upon from everyone. I can read, B. I know when sentences are slanted. It would be frustrating to find your voice and have few others understand. Separate the wheat from the chaff as far as words go. The kind words are wheat.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 3:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Bill Perdue
      Bill Perdue

      @schlukitz: Yep

      Feb 23, 2010 at 3:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      The old story of the little boy who cried wolf keeps coming to mind. … Didn’t someone tell him about the dangers of sending up the scare flag too often? .

      Feb 23, 2010 at 7:17 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Dear Gentlemen, There are more important matters before us. We are so fortunate to live in a country that allows freedom of thought. We are blessed to have an outlet for our frustrations about legally sanctioned inequality. I feel so fortunate, on this rainy day to have, as my only concern, lettuce to wash and a case of B.R. Cohn wine needing to be delivered. Cuban music is putting me in a silly mood as I wait for the FED-Ex truck to deliver the earth’s bounty, wine. I don’t drink, but I love, read about, and enjoy through others the symbolism and art, which is wine. We all have something for which to be overcome with gratitude. Thankful, for this country that eventually gets around to doing the right thing in terms of equality. Thankful that all of you, from a multitude of backgrounds, have washed up on the Island of Queerty. Where the Hell is my wine, damn it. Ellades Ochoa doesn’t care, he’s setting his guitar on fire, while I wait. My only problem on this rainy day. Does it take war to be heard. Our thoughts are important to us, but dignity is an ideal that even posters on Queerty can strive for and maintain. As I lick this nasty tasting envelope to the Disabled American Vet’s, I can’t believe so many have been maimed and killed for our being able to converse openly about our American lives. For someone to have died for this makes me want to choose my words more carefully. Dignity is freedom.

      THE WARRIOR’S CODE OF HONOR
      As a combat veteran wounded in one of America’s wars, I offer to speak for those who cannot.
      Were the mouths of my fallen front-line friends not stopped with dust, they would testify that life revolves around honor.

      In war, it is understood that you give your word of honor to do your duty — that is — stand and fight instead of running away and deserting your friends.
      When you keep your word despite desperately desiring to flee the screaming hell all around, you earn honor.

      Earning honor under fire changes who you are.
      The blast furnace of battle burns away impurities encrusting your soul.
      The white-hot forge of combat hammers you into a hardened, purified warrior willing to die rather than break your word to friends — your honor.

      Combat is scary but exciting.
      You never feel so alive as when being shot at without result.
      You never feel so triumphant as when shooting back — with result.
      You never feel love so pure as that burned into your heart by friends willing to die to keep their word to you. And they do.

      The biggest sadness of your life is to see friends falling.
      The biggest surprise of your life is to survive the war.
      Although still alive on the outside, you are dead inside — shot thru the heart with nonsensical guilt for living while friends died.
      The biggest lie of your life torments you that you could have done something more, different, to save them.
      Their faces are the tombstones in your weeping eyes, their souls shine the true camaraderie you search for the rest of your life but never find.

      You live a different world now. You always will.
      Your world is about waking up night after night silently screaming, back in battle.
      Your world is about your best friend bleeding to death in your arms, howling in pain for you to kill him.
      Your world is about shooting so many enemies the gun turns red and jams, letting the enemy grab you.
      Your world is about struggling hand-to-hand for one more breath of life.

      You never speak of your world.
      Those who have seen combat do not talk about it.
      Those who talk about it have not seen combat.

      You come home but a grim ghost of he who so lightheartedly went off to war.
      But home no longer exists.
      That world shattered like a mirror the first time you were shot at.

      The hurricane winds of war have hurled you far away to a different world — the Warrior’s World — where your whole life is about keeping your word or die trying.
      But people in the civilian world have no idea that life is about keeping your word — they think life is about babies and business.

      The distance between the two worlds is as far as Mars from Earth.
      This is why, when you come home, you feel like an outsider — a visitor from another planet.
      You are.

      People you knew before the war try to make contact.
      It is useless.
      Words fall like bricks between you.

      Serving with warriors who died proving their word has made prewar friends seem too untested to be trusted – thus they are now mere acquaintances.
      And they often stay that way because, like most battle-hardened Warriors, you prefer not to risk fully trusting anyone whose life is not devoted keeping their word, their honor.

      The hard truth is that doing your duty under fire makes you alone, a stranger in your own home town.

      The only time you are not alone is when with another combat veteran.
      Only he understands that keeping your word, your honor, whilst standing face to face with death gives meaning and purpose to life.
      Only he understands that spending a mere 24 hours in the broad, sunlit uplands of battle-proven honor is more deeply satisfying to a man than spending a whole lifetime in safe, comfortably numb civilian life with DNA compelling him to anguish endlessly over whether he is a brave man or a coward.
      Only he understands that your terrifying – but thrilling – dance with death has made your old world of babies, backyards and ballgames seem deadly dull.
      Only he understands that your way of being due to combat damaged emotions is not the un-usual, but the usual, and you are OK.

      Although you walk thru life alone, you are not lonely.
      You have a constant companion from combat — Death.
      It stands close behind, a little to the left.
      Death whispers in your ear: “Nothing matters outside my touch, and I have not touched you…YET!”

      Death never leaves you — it is your best friend, your most trusted advisor, your wisest teacher.
      Death teaches you that every day above ground is a fine day.
      Death teaches you to feel fortunate on good days, and bad days…well, they do not exist.
      Death teaches you that merely seeing one more sunrise is enough to fill your cup of life to the brim — pressed down and running over!
      Death teaches you that you can postpone its touch by earning serenity.

      Serenity is earned by a lot of prayer and acceptance.
      Acceptance is taking one step out of denial and accepting/allowing your repressed, painful combat memories to be re-lived/suffered thru/shared with other combat vets — and thus de-fused.
      Each time you accomplish this act of courage/desperation:
      the pain gets less;
      more tormenting combat demons hiding in the darkness of your gut are thrown out into the sunlight of awareness, where they disappear in a puff of smoke;
      the less bedeviling combat demons, the more serenity earned;
      serenity is, regretfully, rather an indistinct quality, but it manifests as a sense of honor, a sense of calm, and gratitude to your creator – which lengthens life span.

      Down thru the dusty centuries it has always been thus.
      It always will be, for what is seared into a man’s soul who stands face to face with death never changes.

      Writer’s Note (1):

      This work attempts to describe the world as seen thru the eyes of a combat veteran.
      It is a world virtually unknown to the public because few veterans talk about it.
      This is unfortunate since people who are trying to understand, and make meaningful contact with combat veterans, are kept in the dark.

      Those who wonder why they cannot connect with combat veterans need look no further than these few lines to understand why this is so.

      How do you establish a rapport with a combat veteran?
      It is very simple:
      Demonstrate to him out in the open in front of God and everybody that you too have a Code of Honor –that is, you also keep your word — no matter what!

      Do it and you will forge a bond.
      Do it not and you will not.
      End of story. Case closed.

      I offer these poor, inadequate words – bought not taught – in the hope that they may shed some small light on why combat veterans are like they are, and how they can fix it.

      It is my life desire that this tortured work, despite its many defects, may yet still provide some tiny sliver of understanding which may blossom into tolerance – nay, acceptance – of a Warrior’s perhaps unconventional way of being due to combat-damaged emotions from doing his duty under fire.

      Signed, a Purple Heart Medal recipient who wishes to remain an unknown soldier.
      Life Member of the Military Order of the Purple Heart (MOPH), member number L63550.
      Life Member of the Disabled American Veterans (DAV)

      Feb 23, 2010 at 7:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Saw Bow Duh!
      Saw Bow Duh!

      Kalbo ka. HOtdog

      Feb 23, 2010 at 8:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 170 · schlukitz wrote, “B is like that obnoxious, irritating and persistent mosquito that keeps buzzing around you …”

      Reality – facts are so annoying to people who are factually challenged. Grow up guys – both schlukitz and his “friend” post personal attacks, lies and childish insults mostly, when people don’t agree them. When you behave that way, nobody in his right mind is going to believe anything you say because what you say cannot be trusted.

      Feb 23, 2010 at 10:43 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Dear B, Out at the ranch, my brothers scared the pie out of me with their warnings not to come too close to badgers, as they will, “latch on to your ankle and not let go.” This is starting to feel like a riverbank. There’s a whole lot more to life than being right all the time. That’s what I meant about “picking issues that matter most” and paring down words to meet your ideals. Accuracy is important to you, as it should be with every person, but when disproving another steals thunder away from your ideal, consider letting go of the ankle. Tedious latching promotes ill will. I wish the best for you and hope to see contributions from you that truly make a difference on this site.

      Feb 24, 2010 at 7:26 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Soldiers have died for our freedom to speak openly. Freedom from oppression is a yard, filled with fruit, tomatoes on vines, lemons bedding in grass, and bees buzzing. To speak openly is the only way to meet our ideal. How valuable. With motive as a mover, we can’t go wrong with love. Censorship should not hinder, but then neither should closed ears. Ego, I suspect. Make a list of qualities that our community has and think of ways to improve our impact on this world. For the gay communities that follow us are depending on our ability to overcome pain and articulating our injustice in words that won’t be forgotten. Battle weary? The gun is going off in the sanctuary. Unresolved pain can be an out of control kettle drum. A drum has it’s place. As though this were a business plan, write a list of our strong points and then plan how to reach our ideal. Emotions, as in kettle drums, have a place. To spend time licking wounds is indulgent. Wallowing widens the target. We need to grow up and out, not around and around. Thorny briar. (My stripper name)

      Feb 24, 2010 at 11:16 am · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      o. 177 · 1EqualityUSA: “Accuracy is important to you, as it should be with every person, but when disproving another steals thunder away from your ideal, consider letting go of the ankle.”

      … keep in mind that the particular people who are making factually challenged posts are the ones acting like the ‘badgers’ you mentioned – posting a series of baseless personal attacks because they don’t like seeing a statement of the facts. If people do nothing, they’ll just continue with that behavior indefinitely.

      Feb 24, 2010 at 6:24 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      My brother, closest to me in age, was popular, athletic, funny, creative and he liked people from all walks of life. The age range alone was enough to tell that he liked everybody. I once opened his sports closet and it was jammed with skis, boots, diving gear, tennis rackets, baseball bats, a bowling ball, golf clubs, backpacks, shotguns, hunting gear, fishing tackle. It was evident that he enjoyed sports and the people he encountered playing sports. He went through a period in his life, late 20’s(?) when he started to get jaded and it showed. My mother said, “You’ve always liked people and it showed. Now, something’s changed.” She said to him, “One of the best gifts you have ever been given was that you liked people and that it showed. Don’t think for an instant that people can’t feel that. Fight it. Don’t let that happen.” Sometimes we get locked into a certain way of being. By mentioning math in one of your posts, I assume that you like the rightness or wrongness of math. There is no fudging with numbers, right or wrong, the answer is as plain as day. It’s not a bad way to be. Where the frustration comes in is when humans are held to an impossibly exacting standard. I can only suggest that you pick your battles wisely and fight over things that really matter. Is the dumb bantering back and forth worth it? Is it a hill to die on? Is your reputation worth the expended energy? Sometimes we are compelled to bring in other points of view, but mostly, we are gathering near a water hole here at Queerty. Let’s drink from it. (Watch out for those badgers though, they’ll latch onto your ankle and not let go.) You have a good mind. I would be bothered if your thoughts were discounted for unnecessary strife. Just because you think a thought doesn’t mean you have to write it. If someone stretches a story out of shape, file it away. If a person makes themselves vulnerable, hold back. Especially if you know you can prove him or her wrong. Is it a hill to die on? I have to go ajax the shower. A work run is on my horizon, hours away, actually. Take care.

      Feb 24, 2010 at 7:19 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 180 · 1EqualityUSA wrote, “Where the frustration comes in is when humans are held to an impossibly exacting standard.” etc.

      … it’s not an impossibly exacting standard, however. Some of these guys have posted utter lies such as a claim that I’m being paid by someone to post comments here, something impossible to determine from a one-letter user name. What’s going on is that these guys believe that you should respond to someone you don’t agree with by demonizing that person and completely misrepresenting what they said. It is not possible to have a civil conversation with people who continually lie and misrepresent what you say.

      Those tactics, BTW, are what is currently doing a very good job of destroying the U.S. – just look at national politics and compare disagreements between Democrats and Republicans today to how they were managed 40 years ago. Today, you have the “opposition party” doing its best to sabotoge the other side of a dispute with nearly no bounds at all on what tactics might be used. The result is an inability to address serious problems and that gridlock will eventually destroy us if allowed to continue.

      It seems to have gotten worse after decades of “hate radio” – the Rush Limbaugh sort of programs – and that sort of behavior is spreading. I think it is really important to eliminate it, or at least to reduce it to far lower levels. If we don’t, we’ll eliminate ourselves.

      Feb 27, 2010 at 4:28 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Dear B, I hear this and agree. Where I disagree is participating in the silly jabs back and forth. Parsimony is valuable, as frustration finds easy targets. Ego says every jab should be addressed, which spirals into madness faster than Bette Davis flicks. Don’t forget to enjoy the exchange. Queerty is a watering hole, not the Judgment at Nuremburg. Ask yourself, “Is this going to matter in 10 years?” and if the answer is, “No.” then drop it. Go to Bill Moyer’s interview with Olson and Boise. It worked me over this morning. Equality is happening. Have a good day and enjoy the labor of reaching our goal. We need to unite and then celebrate. Enemies are plentiful. Let’s do our level best to promote goodwill in our own community and present ourselves as a unified block of queer power. When we win, let’s fight the urge to rub our opponents’ noses in it as Maggie tends to do. Let’s be good winners.

      Feb 28, 2010 at 12:56 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • schlukitz
      schlukitz

      No. 182 · 1EqualityUSA

      I watched the Bill Moyers Interview with Olson & Boies before I turned in for the night. It was spiritually uplifting.

      Feb 28, 2010 at 1:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      The non-emotional, matter of fact temperament is appealing too. Equality is inevitable.

      Feb 28, 2010 at 6:09 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 182 · 1EqualityUSA wrote, “Dear B, I hear this and agree. Where I disagree is participating in the silly jabs back and forth. Parsimony is valuable, as frustration finds easy targets.”

      … of course, we tried that nationally with Hate Radio (aka Rush Limbaugh and fellow travelers), and the track record for simply ignoring lies is not encouraging.

      Mar 1, 2010 at 3:21 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      Their story is not yet completed. Phonies are soon found out, just give them time. All trouble makers fall because their ethics are flawed. A shrewd fox might rule the hen-house for a time, but reputations follow for life. Just like the reputations of:

      http://lauriekendrick.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/badger2.jpg

      Mar 1, 2010 at 4:05 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      No. 186 · 1EqualityUSA wrote, “Their story is not yet completed. Phonies are soon found out, just give them time.” … true but in the case of someone like Rush Limbaugh and others of his ilk, the steady drumbeat over several decades, with responsible people more or less ignoring this riffraff, has pushed U.S. public opinion way to the ‘right’. While it may correct itself over time, it can take up a significant portion of your lifespan before that happens.

      Think about it – we have a significant chunk of the electorate, brainwashed by some “government is the problem” rhetoric, who end up voting against their economic self interest without realizing it.

      In a classic case of constituent stupidity, one congressman heard an impassioned plea from some guy worried about the government taking over his health care, which he was satisfied with. He was on Medicare!

      Mar 2, 2010 at 3:58 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      That’s a good one. Incessant jabs from Queerty posters will likely have little or no effect on the outcome of our issues, but extrapolating it out does clarify the wrongness of slants in any direction. It’s mathematically pleasant too. Don’t forget to enjoy life. What do you think about Washington, D.C.’s now unchallenged marriage law? Terrwill said that Gallagher was going to go to a buffet and binge. I bet he was a Hellion as a youngsta’. He does have fun.

      Mar 2, 2010 at 6:37 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • B
      B

      “What do you think about Washington, D.C.’s now unchallenged marriage law?” …. if a meteor does not land on the Supreme Court Building, the Catholic Church will have some explaining to do. It will have even more explaining to do if the meteor lands on the nation’s phallic symbol, the Washington Monument, as that could be taken as a sign as to what the Lord wants us to do with our personal phallic symbols! Curiously, the Latin word for meteor is meteorum and it it neuter, not feminine, for whatever that is worth.

      Mar 2, 2010 at 7:10 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      I’ll keep me orbs peeled. Locusts would suffice. If any orphans come out of it, don’t expect Catholics to find them homes.

      Mar 2, 2010 at 7:22 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • Taylor Siluwé
      Taylor Siluwé

      No. 188 · 1EqualityUSA

      “What do you think about Washington, D.C.’s now unchallenged marriage law? Terrwill said that Gallagher was going to go to a buffet and binge.”

      Someone should stake-out the ALL YOU EAT joints in her neck of the woods. A picture (or video) of her being a sinful, unrepentant GLUTTON would be priceless.

      Mar 2, 2010 at 9:32 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·
    • 1EqualityUSA
      1EqualityUSA

      You would need to set up night vision googles I suspect. No use tying our backpacks up in trees.

      Mar 2, 2010 at 9:41 pm · @ReplyReply to this comment ·

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