“Scroll through any of the gay hook-up apps these days and you’ll get a sea of exclusive terminology. ‘Masc4Masc only.’ ‘No Femmes.’ ‘Masculine/Muscular ONLY.'” blogger Kevin Thornton writes in a new op-ed published on The Huffington Post. “What’s going on here? Is this personal taste in men? Or is it subtle homophobia with a dash of self-loathing?”
Thornton recounts growing up in a small town in Indiana during the early 1980s. He remembers one of his elementary school classmates, who he describes as an “effeminate little boy,” being taunted by the other children. Not wanting to suffer the same kind of treatment, Thornton made an extra effort to act more masculine.
“Out of fear, I remember making a concerted effort to sit with my legs spread wide, and to speak in the lowest tone my prepubescent voice could muster. To never get too expressive,” he writes. “It worked. I passed.”
In high school, as his sexuality began to awaken, he amped up the macho act and disguised himself as “an artsy kid.”
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“I grew out my hair. Played in a band. Wore a biker jacket. To the untrained eye, I wasn’t gay; I was just too cool for school,” he writes.
He also found himself attracted to “straight-acting” guys.
“The moment I saw a flash of girly-ness on your visage, or a swish in your sashay, it was over,” he confesses.
Today, Thornton says he’s working on being more open-minded about the various types of gay men in the world. He says he tries his best to live without limitations by not letting preconceived notions determine what’s best for him.
“It’s a funny thing, how painful and fearful moments from our childhood seem to linger with us forever, subconsciously influencing our behavior,” he reflects. “Even funnier still is how time has a way of distancing us from the past. With each passing moment, I step further away from the scared little boy, overly-concerned with surface mannerisms that simply do not matter, and closer to the wise old man who has embraced the diversity of our people.”
“I’m not all the way there yet, but it’s the direction I’m heading,” Thornton concludes. “It’s the direction I choose to go.”
What do you think? Does preferring men who are more traditionally masculine make you a self-loathing homophobe? Sounds off in the comments section below.
Related stories:
Why Do Masculine Gay Guys Look Down On Feminine Guys?
“Straight-Acting” Mr. Gay World Will Promote Masculine Homosexuality Worldwide
Chris Crocker Wants All You Masculine Gays to Stop Hating on the Femmes
rikard
regardless of what attracts you to a man the litany of “NO’s” in many profiles show you in a negative light. by the same token if you don’t get a reply accept that as a polite “no”.
Gruffling
Different strokes for different blokes. Not being attracted to a particular type is just preference. But putting up no this or no that just makes you look rude and unfriendly, it could put off someone who is your type.
sfbeast
I prefer gay men who are more natural or masculine, and white. It’s what appeals to me sexually. And I notice in the ads other guys have different preferences, including more femme gays. But what I do find homophobic are the guys who offer themselves only to straight men.
CoachS
Everyone has preferences. I happen to like intelligence. Doesn’t mean I put “No sub 125 IQs please” on my Grindr profile. I am open to chatting with almost anyone. I figure out pretty quickly whether I find them interesting and I try not to alienate anyone. That’s just good manners I hope.
Interestingly, the guy that I’ve fallen in love with is far younger than I would have thought and I would have excluded him had I said “Professionals over 25 only please”.
onthemark
Some of them aren’t as “masc” as they think they are.
jlfbman
Fear and the resulting narcissistic, overblown ego produces gay/bi men seeking only muscular/masculine partners. Sure preferences plays a natural part in the choices but the fear of being seen as ” less than ” a man is a very strong motivator. The brainwashing we all have been subjected to regarding the ” ideal ” male or female behaviour only serves to have a population in distress trying constantly to ” live up ” to these ideals. Having gay men always portrayed as limp wristed, bitchy queens in the media has always created a negative view and harmful bigotry. Just be true to yourself, free of contrived facades to ” fit in ” is the only way to go.
sportyguy1983
Writing posts like that might mean you have a stick in your butt and you need to get over the fact that people have preferences in their sexual partners that you may not share. Be a grown up and accept it.
Cam
Whether they are more “Effy” or more “Butch” is pretty low on the list.
Attractive, funny, not that nasty insecure type that is constantly bracing for a fight, nice supportive, and of course sexy.
If they have all of those qualities it really shouldn’t matter if on Sunday’s he’s talking about the hockey scores or online to get tickets to a Broadway musical.
Paul Nadolski
I had a “type” and then ended up falling in love with a guy who wasn’t that “type”. I thought I was into masc/straight-acting/white and ended up seriously in love with a guy who was more effeminate and Latino. It didn’t work out for us in the end, but for me the lesson was never say never.
BJ McFrisky
A better headline would be . . .
Claiming “Masculine Only” Makes One A Homophobe Might Mean You’re A Professional Victim Perpetually In Search Of Your Next Oppressor
jason smeds
Men who love men generally prefer masculine qualities associated with men. If you want effeminate men, you are probably attracted to the quality of effeminacy as is also found in women.
To me, it’s self-defeating if you are a man who is homosexually inclined to effeminate men. You may as well go with a woman.
Paco
I think it just makes them seem unapproachable. What is considered masculine is often subjective and can differ greatly from person to person. Maybe that’s why so many come off as complete caricatures of masculinity, so they won’t get rejected for not being masculine enough.
ppp111
I don’t believe any of us should have to apologize for our preferences. Personally, I prefer more masculine guys because I think they’re more attractive than ones who are effeminate.
NoCagada
@jason smeds: Son, have you ever actually touched another male’s penis and/or testicles and/or buttocks? Have you ever touched a vagina (other than sliding down the birth canal)? I suspect you haven’t.
lykeitiz
It doesn’t mean they’re homophobes. It just means they don’t like queens. Kind of how they don’t like women. Are you going to give them attitude for that too?
Personally, I like both mascs and femmes, with a slight pref for femmes.
Do you think that difference is actually seen by REAL homophobes? Nope. A f*g is a f*g to them.
TomOH
I’m so sick of some gay folks blaming anything and everything as a result of someone else’s inherent “self-loathing” and “homophobia”. I would be willing to bet the folks who write these articles are effeminate gay men themselves and think simply because they are homosexual, then all homosexual men must be crushing on them secretly. We’re not. I’m not sexually attracted to effeminate men at all. I’m not the one that’s self-loathing, it sounds more like the people making these arguments are. When they don’t get what they want, such as that masculine man they had their eye on, they spitefully try to peg him as some big hypocrite who is supposedly ashamed of himself and being around other gays. What’s really going on is these people want their sexual orientations and gender identities respected, but at the same time they refuse to respect other people’s gender identities and sexual orientations that differ from their own.
SonOfKings
“Masculine” is such a broad and subjective term, it’s kind of useless to insist upon it with an “Only” in front. It may be easier to suggest: “Looking for a Marlboro man, jock, or thug type…” And good luck with that, because I ain’t checking for yo ass in any case. I just like attractive men who are looking for someone who’s appealing. Gay men on Grindr be doing too much, trying too hard.
Clark35
It’s just someone’s preference I know guys who prefer queenie types.
vive
It is just rude. You are allowed to have preferences, but listing negative requirements in such an insensitive way shows you have no class or manners.
jesaves
It was the effeminate gay men and butch women at the beginning of the gay rights movement who couldn’t blend in and look “straight” who paved the way for all of us. You would not be able to have some of the rights you do today if it weren’t for the “flaming queens”
VampDC
People are so sensitive.
Honestly I appreciate blunt people on these apps. Saves everyone time.
Aranos
I’m fed up with effeminate gays doing just what straight homophobes do: telling me I have to behave “effeminate” because I am gay, and thus not a “real” man.
So the real homophobes here are those intolerant effeminates who are trying to impose their lifestyle on others. And even worse, by behaving the way they do, they also adopt the derogatory clichés invented by straight homophobes to ridicule us.
Now listen: I am gay, that means I am attracted to men, not women. So I do not find effeminate behaviour in men attractive. If you are gay and like effeminate men, then maybe you should get yourself a woman. There is no reason and no logic in behaving like a woman if you’re gay. Gays are men just like others. They have the same testosteron level, they do not identify as women, etc… There’s just no difference – I know it’s hard to realize you’re nothing special, but maybe it’s time to get over it! And yes, you CAN be out and loud WITHOUT behaving like a living cliché.
lauraspencer
It seems that truly masculine (whatever that means) guys don’t need to state that they are masculine. They are comfortable in their own skin and don’t have to announce they are “masculine” because it is obvious.
From my experience most guys who feel the need to say they are masc looking for masc never ever are my definition of masculine. I read a profile online that said well with “masc” should be “mask” because the guys saying they are masculine really aren’t and they are living behind a façade.
Its the same with guys who describe themselves as VGL. If you truly are good looking why do you have to tell people? Don’t you think it would be obvious when they see your photo or you in person?
MidahoX
@lauraspencer: Exactly! The fact that someone has to constantly remind themselves how they should behave is a clear sign of insecurity. Why putting so much effort in trying to satisfy what the society expects you to be… Just be you.
Black Pegasus
Aww the poor victimized fems on their continual crusade for that unobtainable masculine man lol. They don’t want anything to do with each other while seeking a mate, yet they fully expect the objects of their desires to feel the same level of attraction towards them. Kinda reminds me of the Black and Asian Snow Queens who complain about white gays not wanting them yet they actively ignore members of their own race as well. Lovely lol
Arcamenel
@Arcamenel: (straight) society is what I meant but white works there too
jwtraveler
I guess it all depends: Are you looking for a husband, a boyfriend, a date, a trick or a fantasy? The guy pictured above would definitely be a fantasy for me, but I doubt that he’d be a boyfriend or husband.
jason smeds
Why would any homosexually oriented man want to go with an effeminate man? Effeminate men embody the selling qualities of women – ie the waving hands, the stretched vowels, the constant flicking of the eyes from right to left. These are all qualities of selling found in women and effeminate men.
Men who want men don’t want a wannabe woman.
onthemark
@lauraspencer: “I read a profile online that said well with “masc” should be “mask” because the guys saying they are masculine really aren’t”
Hi-yo Silver, it’s the Lone Ranger… or maybe the Phantom of the Opera.
dave lopes
I really think we have yet to uncover the true level of “transgenderism” in society.
Many gay men are male only physically.
I think people are naturally feminine or masculine. Some try to act to fit in but that is their choice and right.
I am attracted to natural masculinity, the type that does not need to shout and is not afraid to show its softer side.
Cam
@jason smeds: said…. “Why would any homosexually oriented man want to go with an effeminate man? Effeminate men embody the selling qualities of women – ie the waving hands, the stretched vowels, the constant flicking of the eyes from right to left.”
__________________________________________________
It’s interesting that you seem to think that it’s these qualities in women that attract straight men. Ever seen a straight guy in a bar looking with irritation as the girl he’s with yells whoo with her friends, whines, nags him etc… No, he is with her in spite of that because he is attracted to woman.
A guy with a butch guy or a fem guy is with them because he is physically attracted to men, the behavior is an aside.
But then again, you and your other screenames always parrot out the lines of the anti-gay bigots, so of course you would buy in to the line that gay or fem equals woman and is learned.
At least you’re consistent.
Mykaels
I think it makes the person several things: closed minded, single minded, sometimes it makes them an ass (seriously, how butch is getting your ass pounded).
But homophobic? No
Meb
This is ridiculous and offensive.
The sexual attraction must be absolutely free.
No one should be with someone for political correctness.
scott609
I never understood why people keep equating masculine behavior with straight-acting, as if masculinity was exclusive only to straights and the rest of us were just pretending. Gays come in all shapes and sizes, and types, just like everyone else. People should just be who they are, as long as they feel safe acting that way. Often times high school is not the time to flame, but you can if you have the courage to.
If someone is attracted to masculine men, that would make sense, since they are gay. If they are attracted to effeminate men, then that makes them no more or less gay. People’s personal sexual attractions are their own, and can’t be dictated by some outside force trying to define them as homophobic. Being effeminate does not equal being gay. It is just a type of gender expression, no more or less gay than a masculine man. That’s like saying there is only one way to be black or hispanic. We are as diverse as any other group.
AtticusBennett
let’s play a fun game!
how many of you who says “masc only, no fems” and are defending such use of terms can SHOW YOURSELVES?
Just curious. because i have a sneaking suspicion the answer will be NONE of you.
and there’s a reason for that. the most insecure members of our community are the ones who still cling to the idea that they’re “masc” and others are “fem”
ever gone on Grindr in a more rural area? MASC4MASC! DISCREET! STR8ACTING! NO FEMS!
why? simple – the more homophobic the heterosexuals in your area, community, family, the more insecure and self-loathing the gay man. and they express it with their “preferences’, which are conditioned and coloured by the society they live in.
MASC is not a real thing. it means something different to everyone. everyone. that’s why it’s a stupid thing to say.
“I’m into MASC guys” is as meaningless and asinine as “i like guys who like to have fun”
it means ZILCH.
wanna see some examples of this idiocy? knock yourselves out…
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2013/09/mask-for-masc.html
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2012/06/straight-is-not-compliment.html
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2014/03/homophobic-gay-men-of-grindr.html
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2011/09/carrying-self-hatred-into-adulthood.html
know what happens when you say “no fems”? you’re telling everyone that your family denigrates gay men and you still don’t feel like a real man in their eyes.
know what happens when you say “masc 4 masc”? you tell everyone that you’re not really sure you’re a real man, and you rely on posturing and the perceptions of others for your own validation.
so, to all who insist on continuing to use these terms – you’re only showing everyone what broken boys you are. truly.
as for my challenge…anyone care to take it up? you’re so masc, you’re not into fems? sure. ok. let’s see who you are.
*smooch*
vive
@Meb, @Aranos, @VampDC, people like whom they like and that’s fine.
But it is offensive to say on your profile or to respond to people by saying: “I don’t like your sort of people.” Be it black or Asian or fem or older.
Even if you want to argue that it is not hate speech, it is clear that it is bad manners and it is not classy.
jheryn
It is preference plain and simple. My friends run the gamut between very effeminate to hyper masculine. I love all of these guys. But when it comes to who I am attracted to in both sexual and relationship potentials, I like more masculine guys. I am not secretly homophobic or self-loathing.
I wouldn’t exclude a more effeminate man if I met him naturally and we hit it off, but I also know that if I put myself out there for what kind of man rings my bell, I am going to say I like masculine guys.
I wouldn’t think a man is homophobic or self-loathing if he said he likes effeminate men only, so why attack men who like masculine men only? Such judgement is just stupid and hypocritical.
Xzamilio
Let’s play a fun game: Let’s plug our own blogs for pageviews… that’s not transparent and opportunistic at all.
AtticusBennett
@Xzamilio: or, you can read the blogs and see that they point out exactly what folks who aren’t complete idiots are saying.
but hey, fellas, keep proving me right. “masc4masc, no fems” – its users and defenders are all anonymous cowardly boys.
Geeker
I’m just a regular guy, not masc or fem,just a guy and I’m interested in the same.
Xzamilio
@AtticusBennett: No, not THE blogs… YOUR blog. You don’t have a point that hasn’t been uttered a thousand times and most thinking people already know is true. And these idiots masking their bias as “preference” are the same quintessential shallow gay men that we have come across in all walks of life… but, then again, there are plenty of articles dedicated to the whole “no fems” stupidity… so you’ll forgive me if I don’t take any interest in a glorified attention whore who seems to think having a picture next to his name makes him better than everyone else.
JaredNorthcutt30
The bottom line: if you’re having sex, your implicit biases are coming out regardless. That’s why careful consideration should be exercised. The oppressive systems that keep us all in place are tied to the sexual construct. And yes, it is a construct.
AtticusBennett
@Xzamilio: calm down, blanche.
it’s not about “better” – it’s just very telling that there are some things that only the folks who cloak themselves in anonymity ever say.
but calm your hormones, child. i don’t need a picture next to my name to know i’m better than you.
Xzamilio
@AtticusBennett: You may not need a picture, but you damn sure need a reality check if you think you’re better than me. But since we’re in the mood to play Online Dr. Phil, allow me to offer my take of you:
You are the typical bitter bitchy gay guy that couldn’t get the jocky guy named Chip in his bed, and now he has a different kind of Chip… the kind of the shoulder variety. The only thing telling is that your subsequent follow-up was nothing more than ad-hominem diarrhea and “calm down, blanche” was REALLY telling. Referencing me using a female name was meant to be an insult, wasn’t it? So tell me again how pro-fem gay men you are when you can’t even make an insult without spewing vitriolic anti-fem pronouns. And to use one of the Golden Girls?? That is almost blasphemy, you holier-than-thou asshat
AtticusBennett
@Xzamilio: No, we say “Calm Down, Blanche” all the time – it’s a rather popular phrase in the classic gay vernacular that embraces the camp aesthetic. And it’s not actually a reference to Ms. Deveraux. read The Normal Heart – it’s even in that.
jockey guy named chip? Um…no. I don’t go for Chip/Biff/Chad/Brads 😉 I have, however, always managed to get exactly what i want. jocks. bears. twinks. preps. nerds. punks. geeks. i also had my first boyfriend when i was still in high school, he even came to my graduation and sat with my family. a veritable adonis he was *le sighhh*.
oh to be young again.
you started this by being a little whiner about me. i’m not saying “i’m better than people because i can show who i am” -i’m pointing out that the “masc4masc no fems” brigade are UNABLE to do so. as this has proven.and it’s still not happened.
you’re the one who decided to come at me, lamely, then instantly decide that “calm down blanche” was using female pronouns as pejorative. it’s none of those things.
but hey – no need to play Dr. Phil. check my blog. you can see me and my men 😀
demetreus
I think putting up a laundry list of the “type” of man you are looking for, while offending another type of person makes you look desperate. Some people are commenting that certain people have a preference but at the end of the day, if someone responds to you on a dating site and they aren’t your ” preference” then you should have the decency to say ” thank you ” or at least don’t write them back. I feel that if you list in your profile all the negatives about others that you don’t “prefer” then you are showing that you obviously have issues. And if you are so hot, then why do you need a dating site?
Xzamilio
@AtticusBennett: I have never said “Calm down, Blanche” or heard it used before now, so things you and your other bitchy friends say amongst yourselves doesn’t mean jack to me. By the way, I’ve already seen your blog… it’d be a nice addition to my collection of blogs I follow if not for the insufferable asshole operating it. And I actually agree with your point about these “mascformasc” losers who think a man’s bravado and swag and how he can “act like a man” are what make him a man. And that is just freaking stupid. Also, I don’t need to hear how much you were ran through in your younger years… I’ve heard of guys bragging on their dicks, but who brags about their anus being blown out? I’m just assuming you’re a bottom because from the looks of you, the only thing you could top is a wedding cake.
Xzamilio
@AtticusBennett: But, you know what? You’re right… I did start with you so I’ll stop now.
surreal33
It’s 2015 WHY is it we as gay men we are led to believe that femininity, bitchiness, shallowness are the core all gay men??? It is NOT HOMOPHOBIC to want distance yourself from that type of man. When I searching for partner I am seeking a MAN!!! Not a self-loathing, insecure, loud, fem queen.
dave lopes
@Xzamilio:
“but who brags about their anus being blown out? I’m just assuming you’re a bottom because from the looks of you, the only thing you could top is a wedding cake.”
lol..lol..lol…lol..ha ha ha.
Captain Obvious
People are so whiny and sensitive nowadays. Who cares what’s on someone else’s profile. Stop crying and go back to meeting people in real life. Then there will be no more profiles to cry about.
Some hot guy didn’t want you and now you cry about how he’s homophobic. Boohoo, big whoop.
demetreus
@Captain Obvious: Well… It takes a sensitive person to get so upset about who is replying to their dating ad, that they have to post ” masculine only” next to a photo of them looking “masculine”. … Don’t you think? Actually it seems like something done out of frustration and desperation.. Please correct me if I am wrong.
demetreus
To those of you who are still struggling to find yourselves, I will pray for you. But a real man doesn’t need the comfort of another “masculine” man to feel complete. A real man doesn’t need to hide behind a shirtless photo to get a guy and A real man knows the value of treating others with respect whether they are his type or not. All of you on here using words like “sissy” and “bitchy” and “queeny” are the reason why this article proves to be true. That homophobia does exist in some homosexuals.
Random
I always find this a bit of an interesting one. I’ve met literally thousands of gay men over the years and the overwhelming majority haven’t been particularly masculinity but then, nor have they been especially feminine either. So when I read all these profiles that say things like ‘MASC4MASC’ I can’t help but wonder where exactly all these masculine gay men are. It seems to me that if people think of themselves as not being a ‘queen’, then that automatically means they are masculine when, in reality, there are a lot of shades in between the two extremes.
I would also question how important a factor masculinity is in the context of a relationship. In the longer term, being able to forge and maintain an emotional connection with someone is likely to be far more significant than acting out traditional notions of a gender role. Ultimately, prizing masculinity over so many other characteristics, such as the ability to effectively communicate, or be affectionate, and empathic, isn’t likely to make anyone happy for too long.
demetreus
@Random: Amen!!
Stefano
@demetreus: @Random: you summarize exactly what i was thinking. Thank you. Well said.
demetreus
@Stefano: You are a good man sir 🙂
Paco
How many actually read the story over at Huffpo? I found it amusing that he started it off with a Grindr conversation where he, a self-described masculine guy, was rejected by another for not being masculine. Your masculinity may not live up to the impossible standards of another, which is why all this “masc4masc” nonsense, is nonsense.
Black Pegasus
@AtticusBennett: @Xzamilio: LMAO you two got me rolling on the floor with those ‘reads”. I love guys with quick wit, even if they might be fems. 🙂
modmikki
First off, I get tired of these black and white term being used to describe our community. We’ve already established sexuality comes in shades of gray. We’ve already established that gender identity comes in shades of gray… One could even argue that gender identity is a societal construct entirely. Why do we continue to pigeon hole ourselves into either ors when we know that it’s destructive? It doesn’t work in the government, it’s certainly not going to work with INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE.
I’ll be the first I say that I am a unique blend of traditionally feminine and masculine traits. AS ALL PEOPLE ARE. Straight, gay, bi, queer or anything else, we are all made up of a unique blend of similar characteristics. That being said, once we come to accept that truth as a society (and more specifically, community) we can move beyond all the typing and type-shaming. Be proud of who you are, be kind to those that are different just as you are to those who are the same and let all this nonsensical hate go.
To me, I’m not offended when a more traditionally masculine man isn’t interested in me– no more than I’m broken up over any other random internet stranger. But there’s a difference between that example and people literally putting on their profile that they won’t stand to have contact with others that don’t fit into their superficial parameters. (And don’t even get me STARTED on the whole no blacks fiasco. Can you believe people have the nerve to say something so disgusting and hateful?)
Ultimately, it just makes people who fall into these types feel bad. It doesn’t make you more desirable to others, it doesn’t ward off people who you’re not interested in, it just puts negative bullshit into the world that continues to reaffirm plastic society’s boundaries and proposed ideas of what is sexy and what is normal.
There is no such thing as normal, there is no such thing as types that it everybody… Get over it. Dicks.
Done 🙂
Stefano
@demetreus: I know ! And that’s why i’m with my boyfriend and happy with him for 23 years. :-))
dave lopes
It is not just a gay issue.
Straight men also try to hype their masculine traits.
It is a man thing.
On the other hand many Gay men hype their feminine traits.
When you get to know people and they let their guard down and be themselve, then the real person comes out.
And then we have the cultural differences. Black americans and English island west indians on average tend to overplay their masculinity.
Black africans and french/creole island west indians on average tend to show a more natural understated masculinity. You will see men holding hands while walking.
tdx3fan
@rikard: Saying no “femmes” is about as homophobic as saying “no fats” is hating on fat people. Its just saying that you find certain things attractive and certain things not, and in this case you want someone that acts like a guy instead of a lady. There are plenty of guys into guys that act like a lady as well.
vive
@tdx3fan, it may not be homophobic, but it is still hateful. How do you feel when certain organizations tell you “we don’t want to mix with your sort of people (meaning gay, or Jewish, or Irish, or non-wealthy, or whatever you are)”? That’s how fem guys feel when they come across your kind of response.
dave lopes
@vive: that is a not a good example.
The words on a sex app only says I do not want any part of your body inside mine or mine inside yours. I do not want to get physically intimate with you because I do not find your traits sexually stimulating.
IT IS A SEX APP nothing more.
You can read it on the APP or meet the person and hear it live.
dave lopes
sorry, the above was a reply to tdx@3fan
vive
@dave lopes: “You can read it on the APP or meet the person and hear it live.”
Either way is hateful and classless. Would you REALLY tell someone to their face that sorry, you are too effeminate/fat/old for me? So why would you do it online? A well-educated and mannerly person would instead just excuse himself in a kind way that doesn’t denigrate the other person’s self-image.
Also, would you really sleep with ANY masculine-identifying man, and if not, why single out effeminacy for judgment and denigration? It really doesn’t “work” either because most guys don’t know if they come across as effeminate in any case.
Realitycheck
Everybody has preferences, that will never change is a human reality.
How ever how we express our preference define who we are,
rather then say no to this or that, one can simply state what he prefers,
with out using negatives to outline what he doesn’t like.
On the other hand some guys cannot accept a NO, but that is all another
story………….
Realitycheck
@vive: @vive: Vive they do it on line because it is neither face to face nor it is it direct to anyone in particular, while I do agree with you on the politeness
need side of it.
It sounds like you are discriminating against masculine guys,
there are all kind of guy out there, some are very masculine and some are extremely femminine, with a lots of variation in the middle.
Those are not identifications as you describe it, but a reality of who this people are.
onthemark
@Realitycheck: “Those are not identifications as you describe it, but a reality of who this people are.”
Reality? No, it’s subjective. Not everyone is going to agree what “masculine” looks like. (and that’s just one example.)
vive
@Realitycheck: “It sounds like you are discriminating against masculine guys.”
No, I prefer masculine guys in bed and I used to discriminate against effeminate guys, as in avoiding them socially. But I have grown up and realized how wrong and hurtful that is.
That is where I am coming from when I see “no fems” in profiles. It is a hurtful thing to post, even if it is in general and not personal. People should be kind and considerate to others. “No fems” is neither.
Tebn
I am not going to apologise for being a monosexual and cisgender gay man.
Many queer ideologists defend as ideal archetype to be a pansexual, transgender and polyamorous person. They do not respect, neither they value, the diversity, they would like to homogenize lgbt people.
dave lopes
@vive: “Either way is hateful and classless. Would you REALLY tell someone to their face that sorry, you are too effeminate/fat/old for me? So why would you do it online?”
That is exactly the reason why you do it online. It does not target a specific individual.
The reality is that people will continue to put these restrictions in their profile. Sensitive and insecure people should really stay off these apps if they are unable to handle it.
BTW: not being sexually attracted to something does not equate hate.
Disciple
@dave lopes: I would tell them they are not my type if they were not, most certainly but it would be done in a loving respectful and rational manner.
That being said yeah I am a masculine homosexual…not even remotely effeminate…I even tried once to act that way just for fun with my BF he laughed at me because I was so bad at it he was mildly effeminate for the record.
Not all of us have such mannerisms though, people are diverse that is reality but to say to me I am somehow homophobic or hate myself because I am masculine is little more than offensive and foolish.
I can’t think of a single time I rejected someone who asked me out because they were effeminate, I do not find it an attractive personality type most times, there are exceptions to every rule..sure but the idea that we have preferences in out partners is nothing new and completely human.
It is much better to be honest outright than lie and drag someone into pain, I do not understand how people can conclude one is homophobic due to such a position, I mean that is like saying women who like bald guys have a phobia of men with hair.
I imagine it has more to do with effeminate brothers being rejected, Let me say that I feel for you and love you no matter what, I may not want to pursue a romantic relationship with you but I will still be a loyal friend and love the hell out of you <3
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
Well, nobody should be shamed for what they are attracted to.
Robert Wilson
THANK YOU
Eoin Maher
But in stating your preference for “Masc” guys you can shame those who aren’t.
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
That’s a victim mentality. If I say I’m into black guys, or Hispanic guys, am I shaming white guys?
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
If I’m into guys with long hair am I shaming bald guys?
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
Are we that fragile that another individuals attraction to another person shames us for who we are?
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
Sounds like everyone needs a giant dose of “love yourself for who you are”…
Kevin J Desmond
That tells me that he looks all butch and everything, but once in bed he becomes big a ol flaming sissy who throws her feet up to Jesus at light speed.
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
In one statement you masculine shame and effeminate shame. Nice. You are setting a fine example of how accepting the LGBTQ community is.
Kevin J Desmond
Jimmy Nolen Araujo … does that you’re the one I was talking about ? Where I live I see butch looking guys all the time and once you get them in bed they become little girls and throw their feet up in the air.
Idir Brown
Hahahahaha I love you Kelvin, butch gays are bullies; they make us the fem guys feel bitter and hopeless … I feel better being myself not acting as someone I’m not. being feminine doesn’t mean that I’m shouting my homosexuality to the world.
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
So if I say I’m only attracted to people of color does it mean I secretly hate white people? This conversation needs to stop. Being into masculine acting or looking men does not mean anything more than YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO MASCULINE MEN!!!!
Philip Neumann
But I would never consider you masculine, and that begs the question: how are you describing yourself online? Because a major issue with the “str8 acting”/”masc” argument is that those who post those requirements on their profile are seldom ever the butchest men around – they’re usually easily identifiable as gay, maybe not flamboyant, but they’ve definitely got a hefty case of Gay Face.
And that’s why it’s homophobic. Many of those men don’t look at themselves with an accurate eye, and then expect a rather unachievable ideal for someone else based on prejudices that exist within the heterosexual community aimed at us as a group.
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
Philip me being butch or fem has nothing to do with what I’m attracted to. It’s like me saying “I’m into black guys” and doesn’t mean I have to be black. Your logic is flawed. Also are you trying to read me by saying you would never consider me masculine? Nice try, but I don’t ever recall saying I was. And what are you basing this conclusion on?
Alex Young
@phillip just because you’re attracted to something, doesn’t mean you have to be anything remotely like it. Ever hear the phrase, “opposites attract”? Believe it or not, this applies to ALL relationships, not just heterosexual ones. Or are you saying in order for me to be attracted to a black person I must be black?
Kevin J Desmond
Philip Neumann … I think Jimmy Nolan Araujo is a little touchy, I’m guessing it may be because a lot of people don’t find him in the least bit attractive. I’m not saying he’s an ugly person and I’m not saying he’s a sugarplum fairy either, I’m just saying I think he wants people to accept him as being butch which personally I don’t see. But hey that’s why people have different tastes and likes. All people gay and straight can be butch and fem sometimes and some are even able to mix the two together.
Jimmy Nolen Araujo
Kevin J Desmond and then don’t go and agree with me. Maybe this is why you only have 53 friends.
Skot Skotnicki
Please louise.
Colorful Kent
what about wanting to see “straight” guys in gay porn. Tell me that’s not homophobic. Gaymenarehot.com
Michael Paul
No it’s not. I’d love to see Danny Mountain and James Deen get it on. They have but there was a girl there. Homophobia is a fear – seeing straight guys doing it with each other is hot. There is a difference. More ‘straight’ guys in gay porn the better. Sean Cody rocks.
Colorful Kent
So which are you: the homo who doesn’t like gay men, the homo who wants to convert straight men, or the homo who wishes he was a girl. Why else would you enjoy straight guys faking the passion, faking the affection, sometimes fakng the action.
Colorful Kent
or the homo who wants to punish straight men.
Topher Levín
Clearly you seem to be the homo out to attack other homos.
Kevin J Desmond
I have known some straight guys who do/did gay porn, they say/said to them it’s just a paycheck and means nothing to them. I know a couple of them ended up liking the guy who they were getting it on with and would hook up from time to time with them off camera.
James Rumsey
I actually know someone like that Kevin! Was very confusing
Mikael Lovecraft
Basically what Queerty has become, when its reduced to “quoting” other articles as something new and news worthy
Eel Joulii
might? it is a fact
Marcus Magix
I’m attracted to whatever I prefer.
Damon Robbins
Might mean …your honest? Why waste everyone’s time.If your flamboyant and into drag I’m just not interested. Is honesty such a bad thing?
Jake Richardson
PREACH
Creed Crutchfield
Damn! Missed Being totally gay by the lack of …GURL! ð???ð???ð??? LoL ð???ð???ð???
Damon Robbins
Creed Crutchfield , that’s my sister and yes she’s a girl.
Creed Crutchfield
Jake is a girl?
Also, I believe you have missed the context of my comment.
Greg Taylor
Does ‘men only’ make me sexist? What if I write ‘camp only’ – is that homosexist?
Eoin Maher
You’re dumb
Mykel C. Johnson
Alan David Smith
the problem is who is comparing who to what. i don’t consider myself overly butch. but i also don’t run around screaming i’m gay to everyone either. i have a natural swish when i walk. and have been known to talk with my hands. but i also used to toss 65# bundles of shingles over my shoulder and walk up ladders. and i used to work in a poultry plant. gutting birds. and tossing 30# turkey’s in for thier final bath. so you could buy a organic bird. for thanks giving. sure i like abba. i also like ac/dc. if the truth were to ever come out. most of us would probably land in a 40/60 % range. just my opinion.
Jake Richardson
I feel this comment sooo much. I’m right there with you
Gus Anderson
I’m not attracted to women……so that must make me genderist.
Creig Stearne
Then the blogger is an idiot.
D Kevin Keel
I don’t like men either extreme. I’m not fem, I’m not butch, I’m just a regular guy.
Kris Barton
“I want stereotypically manly men” means I hate gays? ROFL no
Eoin Maher
Well duh! ð???
Eoin Maher
Okay maybe they’re not all homophobic but should certainly read Velvet Rage and get that internal shame in check… At least watch Do I Sound Gay if you’re too lazy to read the book I mentioned.
Jim Tatman
No. “For me, being gay means I’m attracted to men who are men and act like strong, confident, in-charge, masculine men, not effeminate, swishy, lisping, limp-wristed fairies.”
Arone Axsen
If I wanted to be with someone feminine then I would be straight and with a woman. Which I am not
Bouissou Georges
Si tu es gay, ris donc !
Kenneth Cosmo Ruisi
“No fats, fems, or dopers, need reply” as I recall reading, in the past.
Rick Collier
Means you might be narrow minded, antisocial, and closeted also…