Emily Yoffe (left) is Slate’s resident advice columnist and her pearls of wisdom regularly appear in “Dear Prudence” (Yes, even though her name is Emily—guess it’s helpful if the site wants to ditch her for another writer.)
Today Yoffe ran a question that touches on a controversial subject much discussed in certain gay circles: Is twin sex hot or creepy? And if it is hot, is it just hot in Bel Ami videos or would you be okay with boning your wombmate? (We’re decidedly in the “no” camp.)
Dear Prudence:
My fraternal twin and I (both men) are in our late 30s. We were always extremely close and shared a bedroom growing up. When we were 12 we gradually started experimenting sexually with each other. After a couple of years, we realized we had fallen in love. Of course we felt guilty and ashamed, and we didn’t dar
e tell anyone what we were doing. We hoped it was “just a phase” that we’d grow out of, but we wound up sleeping together until we left for college. We knew this could ruin our lives, so we made a pact to end it. We attended schools far apart and limited our contact to family holidays. But we never fell out of love with each other, so after graduation we moved in together and have been living very discreetly as a monogamous couple ever since.
I’m not writing to you to pass moral judgment on our relationship—we’re at peace and very happy. Our dilemma is how to deal with our increasingly nosy family and friends. They know we’re gay, and we live in a state where same-sex marriage is legal, so we’re getting pressure to settle down. I feel we should continue being discreet for the rest of our lives and blow off their questions. It’s nobody’s business, and I fear they would find our relationship shocking and disgusting.
My brother, though, is exhausted with this charade. He thinks that if we get the family together with a therapist to talk through the issues, they’ll eventually accept it. I think he’s out of his mind, but I also want to make him happy. Is this one of those times when honesty is not the best policy? If so, how do we get everyone to stop worrying we will die alone?
—Tired of This Greek Tragicomedy
Surprisingly for a mainstream advice columnist, Yoffe doesn’t start quoting Bible verses or speaking in tongues.
Dear Greek,
I admit this is my first letter about homosexual, incestuous twins, but I’m going to take you at your word that you two are happy.
…I suggest that you and your brother split the difference in your approach to family and friends: Blowing people off for the next couple of decades is only going to fan the flames of curiosity. But I also agree with you that having a family gathering in which you announce you two have found life partners—each other—will give everyone the vapors.
Ultimately your choice is your business, but a limited version of the truth should back everyone off. When people ask when you’re each going to go out there and find a nice young man, tell them that while it may seem unorthodox, you both have realized that living together is what works for you. Say no brothers could be more devoted or compatible, and neither of you can imagine wanting to change what you have.
We don’t think we could give such sanguine advice—we’d be too busy washing our eyeballs after reading their email. But we get grossed out by the Peter Twins, too.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Are we alone in this? Is incest between consenting adults—without the fear of pregnancy—the new love frontier? Be your brothers’ keeper in the comments section.
Photos: Teresa Castracane, Bel Ami, Universal Pictures
Alex
You know that slippery slope those religious nut jobs always use as a argument to keep same sex marriage rights from passing? I am pretty sure this is what they were talking about. As much as I like the idea of two hunky twins with me. The idea of them doing it is less attractive and just wrong. Just because your gay does not mean you do not have morals or standards. I hate to sound like a troll or narrow minded. But it just strikes a nerve in me.
unclemike
It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my bones. Have at it, boys. People should learn to mind their own business.
Rey
I got a hard on halfway through the letter, lol
christopher di spirito
Twin sex is a hot fantasy and I would wager 90% of gay men (if they are honest) have had this fantasy at one time or another. I know I have and I apologize to no one.
Puck
Although I dont generally comment on things, ill have a go on this one.
Does the US constitution not say that all men deserve the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
I may be a physician but I do remember my US history; so the answer is yes it does.
What the two brothers do in the privacy of their own home is no one elses business.
To be honest, i can think of know other relationship that can be as strong as the bond between two twins. Speaking in purely genetical terms, the bond between a mother and son, father and son, and whatever other familial relationship you can come up with has only a 50% genetic link. While those of twins is 50 or 100%. Do the math yourself!
BrianZ
I don’t really get too twisted about the idea either way: It’s just two strangers getting it on as far as I am concerned. And I don’t subscribe to the moral judgments around incest that were clearly developed because of the increased chances of genetically deficient offspring. Those really don’t, or shouldn’t, apply here anyway because we all know butt-babies don’t survive the night.
I am impressed that Yoffe provides sound advice to the problem without being judgmental of the situation itself.
And thanks for the laugh, Rey. I don’t know why, but your comment really got me to giggling. 😉
Martin
Puck, Rey, and Christopher, I agree. You have each expressed my feelings on this matter. Thank you. (Since I am at work, I cannot write more)
Martin
tazz602
Some brothers experiment with each other growing up, and if you’re gay – twins or not – there is the risk of emotions getting involved. We’re only human and the fact that they are family is not really part of the equation. That may sound odd, but in reality the heart wants what the heart wants. I applaud them for not denying their feelings and emotions, they would live miserable lives not being able to be with the one they love just because “society” thinks it’s evil. In the words of Spock – “Live long and prosper”
Just one question – who is the top or do they flip fuck?
slippy
The subject of brother “love” addressed very tastefully in the Brazilian film :
‘From Beggining To End”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWOVO4Feyws
Tackle
Twin sex is not a hot fantasy and I would doubt if 90% of gay men have had this fantasy. Sure over 90/100% have had a fantasy about who they consider hot but not necessarily with twins togather and them included.
I believe a fantasy involving twins would fall into a “fetish” catorgory with very few thinking or fantasizing about it.
That being said,I have no moral judements for twins who choose to fall in love with each other.
michael
God can be the only true Judger of morality. As long as it’s not hurting anyone then who are we to say what’s morally right or wrong?
slippy
OOOPS-above noted link is for a “fan tribute video: this is for the OFFICIAL
“From Beggining To End” movie trailer :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DSx16XjN5s&feature=related
Marie Cohn
Which Twin Has the Toni?
While I am devastatingly handsome, my fraternal twin brother got hit over the head by the ugly stick. So, no.
Love is Relative
@ No.2 unclemike — Good for you. I agree. One of the most enduring love stories is the Greek myth of Castor and Pollux — The Gemini Twins.
Castor was the fraternal twin brother of both Pollux and Helen of Troy. Leda was their mother who had been impregnated by the god Apollo. Both Castor and Pollux were both later identified as the protectors of sailors. They were also very powerful in battle, and even sailed with Jason and the Argonauts. In some versions of the myth they are also described as deeply committed lovers, as well as brothers.
It was said that only Pollux was divine, but because of Pollux’s love for Castor his twin (after Castor’s death), the Gods allowed Pollux to share his immortality with his twin brother Castor who would spend alternate days on Mount Olympus and in Hades the underworld, but (unfortunately) separately. Eventually the gods took pity on them and reunited them for all eternity in the night sky as the constellation Gemini.
Their unselfish love for one another was often the inspiration for male lovers in ancient Greece.
[On a side note: I find Greek myths to be more interesting and imaginative than Judeo/Christian fables. They relate more to the human experience and are not so hung-up on rejecting human nature. No wonder they’ve inspired more art and literature than the dour death-worshipping cults of the Abrahamic Religions. Even Renaissance Christian art and later Baroque art took it cues from this classical model disguised as religious art. Michelangelo’s contrapposto David obviously has it origins in Greek sculpture — which both Michelangelo and Leonardo Da Vinci sought to emulate.]
Rusk
Aren’t siblings supposed to be annoying, tattletales, and eat all your food that you buy from the store, even when you specifically tell them they can have “some”? I love him, but definitely not thinking of him “in that way”.
Nick
Bummed to discover this wasn’t about the guys in the main page picture. Who are they?
Tavdy79
Incest is banned in most countries for two related reasons: firstly, because there is a very high risk of genetic defect, and secondly because of the taboo on incest, which is itself a consequence of something called the Westermarck effect, whereby children who are raised together during their earliest years are not attracted to one-another as adults. Non-siblings who are raised together wouldn’t be attracted to one-another, while siblings who are raised separately can be. The Westermarck effect is also relevant to parent/child relationships, and is thought to have evolved to prevent the kind of genetic problems caused by incest. It directly counters genetic attraction, which would ordinarily make siblings more attracted to one-another.
Sigmund Freud is (ironically) a good case study on how the Westermarck effect may work: his sexual attractiong to his mother is infamous, however he wasn’t wet-nursed by her as an infant so it is possible that breast-feeding is part of the process in mother/child relationships. This would also explain many incestuous character pairs in literature, ranging from Sophocles’ Oedipus and Jocasta (Jocasts definitely didn’t breast-feed Oedipus as an infant: she had him abandoned to die on a mountain) to Ken Follett’s William and Regan Hamleigh (Regan’s social-climbing instincts and high status meant she would doubtless have had a wet-nurse for William, rather than “degrading” herself by breast-feeding him herself).
Another high-profile real-world instance where the Westermarck effect hasn’t worked is Patrick and Susan Stuebing, a German brother and sister who have four children together, all of whom are in care; Patrick has spent time in prison as a result of their relationship. However Patrick was removed from his and Susan’s parents before Susan’s birth, and the siblings only met when they were 22 and 15, far too old for the Westermarck effect to have developed any influence. The fact that two of the Stuebing’s children are severely disabled shows why the Westermarck effect is important; it’s also consistent with the statistic that about half of all kids born to siblings have some form of genetic disability.
But this also means that the reason the Westermarck effect (and therefore the taboo) exists isn’t relevant to non-reproductive sexual relationships like the twins mentioned. If siblings can’t reproduce with one-another, they can’t cause genetic defects in their offspring. So if the reason for the taboo isn’t relevant, does it make sense to ban incest in those cases simply because most people find it “icky”? That seems like double-standards to me: many people have the exact same reaction to LGBT couples.
Incidentally, incest is legal in France, Sweden and possibly other countries. Sweden even allows half-siblings to marry.
Joe
@Puck – While I agree with you that it is no one’s business, I am remiss to point out that the constitution does not guarantee life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That is in in the Declaration of Independence which is just a set of ideas not laws. The constitution guarantees life, liberty or property. The founding fathers purposely left out of happiness as it could have allowed slaves their freedom in the courts and many more reasons to keep the elite rich and the poor poor.
dsp
I see nothing wrong with it. I dated an identical twin once and he and his twin are a couple. It is not like the two will ever conceive children! and @ Love is Relative , DITTO
MTiffany
@Puck: “Does the US constitution not say that all men deserve the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?”
As a matter of fact, no it does not. That would be the Declaration of Independence which you’re quoting.
Brett
Hhhhhmmmm…twins!
iDavid
Fascinating and very cool. I think we’re spirits, loving each other through bodies. As spirits we are multifaceted, so this makes perfect sense. All of sexuality makes perfect sense if we are truly unlimited in scope.
ousslander
While a fantasy can be hot, the reality is usually very different. I find it creepy. The porn ones are even creepier and sad that they have to fuck their brother to earn some cash.
As for the heart wants what the heart wants, we are humans not animals incapable self control.
I would pass a moral judgement be them right or wrong.
For everyone ok with this, if you had twin sons or twin daughter and son would you be fine with them having twincest?
ousslander
While a fantasy can be hot, the reality is usually very different. I find it creepy. The porn ones are even creepier and sad that they have to sex with their brother to earn some cash.
As for the heart wants what the heart wants, we are humans not animals incapable self control.
I would pass a moral judgement be them right or wrong.
For everyone ok with this, if you had twin sons or twin daughter and son would you be fine with them having twincest?
Charlie
Twins, sure. I don’t think they will have much luck being public. I’d say tell a few select friends and leave it there.
Flowers in the Attic turned on a lot of straight women when it was published.
ousslander
apologies for double post
AlriteBytch
If love is love then why should it matter if the twins were of the oppsite sex and able to conceive a child? I am the last one to pass judgment on who a person chooses to be in a relationship with but if it’s “morally wrong” for twins of the oppsite sex to enter into a relationship, then it should be just as “morally wrong” for those twins of the same sex.
Sean
Incest taboos are all about hetero-normative reproduction and the damage it causes to the gene pool. The taboo is protective for the tribe. It has nothing to do with same sex relationships so as far as twins brother or brother in general go have at it I say…and boy it’s hot!
Sean
Incest taboos are all about hetero-normative reproduction and the damage it causes to the gene pool. The taboo is protective for the tribe. It has nothing to do with same sex relationships so as far as twins brother or brothers in general go have at it I say…and boy it’s hot!
Matthew Rettenmund
Nothing wrong with it. Hot, too. 🙂
iDavid
@Alritebytch
Opposite sex twins can produce physically challenged children due to genetic problems, hence “morally wrong”. Such is not the case w SST.
AlriteBytch
No.24- There are a number of children born to parents who are not siblings or related to each other in any way, who are mentally disabled. There are also teenaged girls who were raped by a close family member (brother, uncle, or father) and have had children who were “perfectly normal”. So my question still stands, maybe I’ll just have to ask my sociology professor to explain the difference.
Jeremy Fitzroy
I don’t know about fraternal twins, but since I’m a bit narcissistic and my twin is identical, what do you think? However, he claims to be straight, and he’s becoming a religious wingnut! We may look the same but we are poles apart characterwise, and we still finish each other sentences, although we rarely communicate anymore since he hates gays.
InscrutableTed
This ordinarily shouldn’t happen due to the Westermarck Effect, which makes siblings sexually desensitized to each other. However, if the brothers were raised separately for the first few years of their life, the Westermarck Effect wouldn’t happen, and they would very likely become incestuous due to Genetic Sexual Attraction.
I suspect that either the brothers were raised separately as infants, or else this letter is a hoax. (And if neither is true, then science has some questions for them.)
AlriteBytch
@iDavid: I agree but that is NOT always the case. As I stated in my first post I am no moral police offical, not in the least, but it seems that some tend to give incest or twincest a pass when people of the same sex are involved, if it’s “wrong” then it should be “wrong” on all accounts not when it only involves OST.
AlriteBytch
Flagged. People were so right about this site. Never visiting again.
GreatGatsby2011
@AlriteBytch: I believe the stigma is attached to the likelihood of genetic diseases/deformities caused by breeding with members of your genetic family. As you stated, just because a child is inbred, doesn’t mean s/he is guaranteed to have a genetic disorder, s/he is just more likely to be born with one as it is likely that both parents carry the recessive gene for a certain disorder (if neither parent carries a recessive gene for a genetic disorder the child should be born just fine).
The real danger of inbreeding (and I suspect this might be what relegates incest, both heterosexual and homosexual, into the realm of taboo) is generational inbreeding. With generational inbreed, even the slightest genetic defect (which wouldn’t even be a blip on the radar for a non-inbred individual) can result in massive genetic derfomation, disease, and even untimely death.
arbiter
I admit, the incest taboo probably mostly stems from the troubles of procreating with a sibling, namely the serious genetic anomalies and increased risk of deformities, etc. Thinking back to Greek tragedies involving (human, as with the Gods it was no issue) incest, the trouble was to whom do you tribute and what rituals do you perform? As brother or as husband? With the lack of either of these two issues (clearly we’re not concerned with the Greek pantheon anymore and they can’t make babies, though is sure sounds like they ‘practice’), I can’t see any real reasonable source of objection. Typically, the aversion to sexual intimacy stems naturally from being raised together, but I guess that is not always the case. It’s not my thing, though without any solid reason to object to it, I’m at a loss as to how to explain my aversion. I don’t think it should be prohibited, I guess, but it hasn’t been one of my fantasies. Although, posed the question, “If you met your physically identical clone, would you have sex with him?” I said “yes.” But that’s mostly out of curiousity… a little like an actor video taping his monologues for a different perspective. lol As far as being in the middle, well, that depends on the twins!
InscrutableTed
Uh, why was my comment flagged as spam?
Bryan
Of course most people will say yes, since in most people’s heads, twincest consists of the kinds of guys posted first above.
Spike
Fantasies aside, I find this very believable. Who hasn’t observed the curious closeness of twins and what gay guy didn’t ‘experiment’ at an early age albeit not your twin but who were they to know then the complication that such experimentation would lead to. Not sure what good will come from sharing this with anyone, friends or family, that are not prepared to deal with the reality of their relationship.
Red Meat
I have an older brother and it would be the most disgusting thing to me to ever be in that position with him. I’m certain its because of how we talk to each other, what we like and don’t like, and our attitudes to things in life.
That being said, I have met brothers who are very close and share a special bond unlike that of my brother and I, where I think to myself that it would be beautiful thing if they were together. The closest I have ever come to incest thoughts was to a cousin, which I found out at age 19 or 20 he was not even related to me at all but raised by my uncle and his wife (real mother) so that’s weird.
iDavid
@Alritebytch
Probabilities of genetic anomalies occur much higher with str8 incesters producing children, but not always the case. Tah.
G
Emily Yoffe has always been amazing with her advice
Sohobod
Their heads don’t look like they belong to their bodies. That’s a bit creepy.
Blake
Twins.
So the reason behind the laws against incest which are based on the bible and the fact that it could caused altered dna do not really apply here. Two brothers or Two sisters for that matter cannot procreate… Love happens.. either you resist it and possible miss out on a lifelong relationship or you let is stay…
Will society except them… No… does society except homosexuality.. barely
B
No. 1 · Alex wrote, “You know that slippery slope those religious nut jobs always use as a argument to keep same sex marriage rights from passing?”
If they try that one, point out that whatever genetic traits make working as a porn “performer”/”actor”/”model” attractive to someone would be shared by an identical twin.
So would the environment they grew up in. Given that, if one of a pair of twins was willing to appear in a porn production, the other is more likely to be willing as well.
The Real Mike in Asheville
@Puck: @Joe:
Not the Constitution, as has been pointed out.
The Declaration of Independence: “… that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.”
The distinction is important: though the founding of the country clearly states “all men are created equal”, the Constitution provided the continuation of slavery, the denial of citizenship of Native Americans, and the counting of Native Americans as 3/5 of a man. Further, when the Constitution was adopted, only adult male landowners had the right to vote.
Joe, no where in the Constitution does it say it guarantees life, liberty and property. Certainly the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment provide for equal protection of each citizen’s rights of liberty and property.
Oh, ok.
Wow so just because we’re gay we’re supposed to decide everything is ok and defend incest too?
Way to make the anti-gay argument for them. This is what they said would happen and here we are.
Stop it. Better to stay silent then support this nonsense. This is almost as bad as the couple who went on and on for a good 15 minutes about how some girl asked to be statutory raped and when I didn’t go along with it they got offended.
What the hell is wrong with people now.
13Zeroither
yeah, I’m fine with the peter twins. Do what you want, be with who you want (make sure that its consensual. Animals and kids cannot consent).
PARKAVMAN
If they were identical, it would bring up enough questions to keep a psychiatrist busy for life. He says they are fraternal which could mean they don’t look alike. If they are happy, I see nothing wrong with it. Telling family, probably not so much.
If they were identical, I wouldn’t say no, but I think they need professional input to see if there are other problems. Good fantasy though.
StudioTodd
I think far too many people spend far too much time worrying about far too many issues that will not affect their lives in the slightest.
Worry about yourself and let other people be happy without your interference or judgement.
prettygirls
@StudioTodd: No it’s not our business so he could have just kept it between them. Don’t open up a can of worms then get mad when they all crawl out.
jason
Conservatives are going to make a meal of this. It will prove their slippery slope argument. What’s next? Sex between father and daughter? Think about it.
I am sick and tired of gay people who think they can sleaze up society with their perverted sense of morality and then hide their actions behind the cloak of “gay rights”. Gay rights is a great idea but sleazy perverts – whether gay or straight – are not welcome.
JEFFUWS
That’a a fake letter.Don’t believe any of it
JEFFUWS
That’s a fake letter.Don’t believe any of it
Oh, ok.
Whoever is so mad they keep flagging everything I post must have no life at all. It’s not like Queerty is going to delete my posts when they aren’t against policy. Keep wasting your time.
———-
Wow so just because we’re gay we’re supposed to decide everything is ok and defend incest too?
Way to make the anti-gay argument for them. This is what they said would happen and here we are.
Stop it. Better to stay silent then support this nonsense. This is almost as bad as the couple who went on and on for a good 15 minutes about how some girl asked to be statutory raped and when I didn’t go along with it they got offended.
What the hell is wrong with people now.
Bender
@Jason:
A few decades ago, we were all “sleazy perverts” in the eyes of the majority. You are no different than the people who judged us back then.
Right or wrong is not decided by gut feelings, by whether YOU are comfortable with it or uncomfortable. It’s decided by whether someone gets hurt by it or not. And consensual, same-sex relationships between twins do not hurt anyone.
This is and remains the gold standard of morality. Applying this standard equally does not make a slippery slope. We judge father on daughter sex to be wrong because the result could offspring with serious genetic problems due to inbreeding. To say that this is “next” because of two brothers f*cking each other is a total non-sequitur.
Oh, ok then.
Whoever is so mad they keep flagging everything I post must have no life at all. It’s not like Queerty is going to delete my posts when they aren’t against policy. Keep wasting your time.
———-
Wow so just because we’re gay we’re supposed to decide everything is ok and defend incest too?
Way to make the anti-gay argument for them. This is what they said would happen and here we are.
Stop it. Better to stay silent then support this nonsense. This is almost as bad as the couple who went on and on for a good 15 minutes about how some girl asked to be statutory raped and when I didn’t go along with it they got offended.
What the hell is wrong with people now.
Triple S
This is a very odd thing for me. If you said to me that a brother and sister were together, then I would probably cringe. But for some reason, this case just doesn’t seem as though it’s just disgusting. I certainly wouldn’t be interested in being together with my twin brother (if I had one), but what could go wrong here?
If this happens with opposite sex siblings, then the prospect of them having a child together probably rings in my mind the most (mostly because of the high probability of malformation and other things like that). But these two guys, well…I just don’t get grossed out. Sure, it sounds pretty raunchy sometimes, but this is a different matter to porn, if they are truly this close to each other, then what’s the problem?
As @Puck said, twins are almost always extremely close. I think that the stigma against this is because of the implications of opposite sex siblings making children. That of course, can’t happen in this case.
I’m not saying that it’s perfect or it’s just as good as non-incestuous relationships: I haven’t had enough experience with this to make an informed decision. But there’s nothing really wrong with this. Well, I think so…
jason
Bender,
The old arguments about gay men being sleazy perverts was based on opposition to homosexuality and not to a genuine distaste for sleaze. Sleazeballs were calling us sleazeballs, basically. Men who have anal sex with their wives were calling us perverts for having anal sex with men. Men who like to watch same-sex activity between women were calling us perverts for engaging in same-sex activity with men. It was a phony outrage.
As for “it doesn’t hurt anyone”, it’s not a tenable argument. On that basis, I could defecate in the middle of Broadway because I’m not hurting anyone. I could pick my nose in front of Times Square for an hour because I’m not hurting anyone. I could walk naked down Rodeo Drive because I’m not hurting anyone. I could paint graffiti on the Empire State building because I’m not hurting anyone.
Face it – there is such a thing as absolute morality.
Code Pink
@Bender: You are wrong! You said that same sex between twins do not hurt anyone. In most cases, like 99%, the family will be hurt. Emotions do count.
If I had twins, I could handle them being gay. But I could not handle and would not approve of them being in a romantic relationship TOGATHER.
Triple S
@Code Pink: Yes, but why must these two men conform to what other people think even if they love each other? Once upon a time, two men, regardless of whether they were siblings or not, would “upset the family”. But it became morally acceptable. I can be gay and love another man and be happy for the most part.
If these two men can be happy together and not permanently harm others, then I say that they should go for it. If we all abided by what the family thought was best, then no one would be able to do anything they wanted; we’d be run by other people.
Code Pink
@Triple S: I’m not saying they should conform. I’m just disagreeing with the notion that no one will bet hurt.
And what if they do permanently harm others,would you still say go for it?
And even if they do love each other, they will “never” be able to get married.
If that’s what they eventually wanted.
Triple S
@Code Pink: Well, I’m certainly not the guru when it comes to incestuous relationships like this, but it’s not as though incest if inherently evil.
Sure, it would probably be a shock and would probably disgust their family, or at least some of them, but even if the news caused permanent damage, why does that matter? Being emotionally and/or psychologically damaged by someone else’s love life is a decision. The two brothers’ mother and/or father can still love them as their sons. There is no need for the family getting in a huff over this.
And no, they won’t be able to get married. If a huge crusade to get incestuous marriage begins like gay marriage has, it would take an exponentially longer time to get.
All in all, though, it doesn’t matter that these two brothers love each other this way, if I met them, I would be a little taken aback, and maybe a little grossed out at first, but sex and who you love doesn’t define a person. I would be honoured to be friends with anyone genuine. If they turned out to be incestuous, then so what? It’s not like it’s doing anything to me.
I’m not critisising you at all (I thought I should make that clear), I’m only saying that it shouldn’t be up to others to decide what they can and can’t do. If they are maliciously harming others, then no; they shouldn’t do it. But they aren’t. They simply want to live their lives together.
OK, I’m done. 🙂
iDavid
@Code Pink
In this case, would not you be hurting yourself due to your own limitations, not the twins hurting you?
My sense is that if str8 incest did not produce malfunctioning kids, they would be getting married and it would be legal.
JayKay
Well my number one fantasy has always been to have a clone so I could fuck myself, so I imagine if I had a gay twin I would be all. over. that.
Besides, there’s no risk of any Hills Have Eyes flipper babies being spawned with two men, so whatever.
Elmwood Mac
Geez, some of you guys will go along with anything just as long as you find it “hot”.
Don’t you draw the line anywhere? How about getting hot and bothered for Dad? I am sure many of you would find that just fine and dandy too. Sad and pathetic.
Scott
There was a TV documentary in the past few years about brothers and sisters who fell in love. One couple didn’t know they were brother & sister at first because one was given away by an unwed mother. They claimed that the genetic link made them fall in love. I wouldn’t run such a couple out of town but I wouldn’t recommend it either. Keep your siblings in your heart but recognize that boundaries are necessary and sex between family members is a boundary you really shouldn’t cross. I heard a story of a young man who grew up with his father and they were in romantic love. The father felt so guilty he committed suicide. The Good Lord sends us these cases so we may learn. The lesson may not be the one we think it should be. Have compassion for everyone. Don’t create drama. Deal in facts.
Nat
“We judge father on daughter sex to be wrong because the result could offspring with serious genetic problems due to inbreeding. ”
So if the Chinatown-esque couple uses contraception, or always aborts the fetus, does that then make father-daughter incest acceptable to you, provided they are legally consenting adults? How about a son and his post-menopausal mother?
Triple S
@Elmwood Mac, @Scott: What you are saying is only because of today’s standards. If it was just as accepted as heterosexual relationships, it would just fine. What makes it a bad thing?
The stigma is probably derived from the fact that opposite sex couples can produce children. Incestuous couples of the opposite sex would produce malformed or genetically deformed children at a higher likelihood.
I really wouldn’t have a problem is anyone, regardless of their genetic relationship to each other, were to enter a close and romantic relationship.
It all comes back to that equation: “What’s it doing to you?”
Well? What is it doing to you? There’s nothing about these relationships that make them evil or disgusting. Slightly off putting maybe, yes. But that was the same for gay relationships one upon a time.
In the distant future, incest may not actually be frowned upon.
But to close, I will not accept opposite sex incestuous couples producing children. They will produce children that will have a higher chance of being a burden on society. If they keep it strictly emotional and physical without children, then it’s all good.
Dallas David
Since there’s no Jehovah or Hell to worry about, the only practical problems with inter-family sex I can think of would be genetic problems with offspring, and coercion from adults.
But otherwise, I can’t think of any reason why 2 brothers or 2 sisters shouldn’t live together if they want to. Maybe there are reasons, but I don’t know of any.
Twins usually have quite different personalities. I’ve known several pairs of gay twins, and while they’re friends and friendly, co-habitation was usually out of the question due to their different interests.
All in all, I wouldn’t think this would ever be a real issue or problem for anyone.
the other Greg
I’m surprised how few comments here think it’s bullshit. Sex a few times, believable… (and no surprise that it titillates so many of the juvenile-minded here)… but “fell in love” at age 14 or so and a relationship into their 30s? Come on.
Back in the days of snail mail and Ann Landers (also not her real name, btw), Ann would look for a New Haven, CT postmark on the more unbelievable letters, indicating pranksters from Yale. Apparently Yalies were the most bored and had the most pranksters back then, or so Ann believed. Maybe Prudence/Emily should have checked for a southern Connecticut IP address.
@JayKay: dude, that’s not what “go fuck yourself” means!
jj
The only real problem with consensual sibling incest where there has been no coercion or abuse is that it will produced genetically f-uped kids. In the case of gay incest of this sort, it doesn’t produce any real biological problem. These are just two gay guys who love each other and everyone should mind their own business. Now, if it were a straight couple and there were the possibility of ever becoming pregnant, then it would be a serious problem. It’s unusual, yes, but just because you or I might think it’s “icky” at first, doesn’t mean its immoral. The same moral code that prohibits homosexuality prohibits incest, so I don’t think I’m in the position to judge. I do think that these guys grown up in a society where homosexuality was accepted, they probably would have found romantic lives with others.
kiwi
I don’t have an issue with twins in a relationship with each other, incest is an issue because of childbirth, and you only need to read genesis in the bible to see it was rife back then in fact it implies we are all products of incest. However I do not believe society will accept such a union as a valid choice for some decades yet, interracial couples get crap heaped on them still let alone what happens to gay couples.
kiwi
I don’t have an issue with twins in a relationship with each other, incest is only an issue when childbirth is involved, and you only need to read genesis in the bible to see it was rife back then in fact it implies we are all products of incest. However I do not believe society will accept such a union as a valid choice for some decades yet, interracial couples get crap heaped on them still let alone what happens to gay couples.
Grevin
Frankly there is a lot of stuff in the gay community that I’d much rather have not encountered. The concept of the smeg-wich comes to mind. In-fact just the thought of some of it (smeg-wich) makes me F’n queasy.
The thing is though… I am rational adult. Thus, when I encounter something of a sexual nature that squicks me out (smeg-wich); I am capable of expressing my emotions in a mature manner that does not include doing the icky-dance, or screaming, “SICK EWW OMG BLEAH!”.
I also understand that I am not the center of the F’n universe, and I don’t get a vote in what consenting adults do with each other (unless paying 3.99 per minute).
GeoG
To the “Greek” brothers, don’t mind what others have to say or think about the two of you or your relationship with each other. Your love seems genuine and how you feel about each other should be the only thing that matters.
InscrutableTed
@GreatGatsby2011: “I believe the stigma is attached to the likelihood of genetic diseases/deformities caused by breeding with members of your genetic family”
I believe the stigma comes from people being grossed out at the thought of sex with their own siblings. (A feeling that is nearly universal, even among people who don’t care about societal taboos, and people who don’t know about genetics.)
Look up the “Westermarck effect” on Wikipedia.
InscrutableTed
I’ll tell you something about guys who have brother fantasies: They don’t have brothers.
Isaac C
I just wanna say one thing: ALL y’all nasty.
Joe stratford
Omg. So many dumb gays here today. They look at hot twins and conclude that twincest is okay. Yesterday, a semi cute hockey player used fag as a pejorative word and the guy was so turned on he defended his hotness to the point of racism. Many gays seem to lose their brain cells when they see a picture of a hot guy(s)
Pathetic!
prop8boy
This is an illegal activity. There are laws against incest in all 50 states. These laws are not going away any time soon as the courts recognize that the State has a legitimate interest in the family stucture, especially as it relates to the raising of children and this interest outweighs the right to privacy.
The more people they inform, the more likely the possibility that a zealot will try to affect their lives, jobs, housing etc.
Ken S
If there’s no danger of them cranking out albino mutant babies then so what? The incest taboo is basically rooted in fear of inbreeding, and perhaps with a dash of ancient parents not wanting their kids to fall for each other so that they’d be easier to marry off to non-relations and get them out of the homestead. Same-sex siblings needn’t fear inbreeding, so seriously, what makes the idea in itself “wrong” or “immoral?” How does it do harm to anybody?
Parrot the “slippery slope” bullcrap that homophobes love to spout about how we’ll spread all manner of degeneracy if we allowed to have our relationships and to have sex in peace, but I’d say the same-sex ‘twincest’ taboo makes no more rational, qualitative sense than the regular old gay taboo; both arise merely from hegemonically privileged parties capriciously trying to exert control over private matters, so that they can maintain their superior social standing and power by keeping everyone else distracted and off-balance with unfounded shame. It’s classic divide-and-conquer– invent “moral wrongs” in amoral situations to pit people against each other for approval and access to higher ‘tiers’ on the pedestal of validation. Delude everybody ‘below’ into struggling to “fix” themselves or prove themselves holier than their natural compatriots, so they don’t have the time or the presence of mind to get ‘uppity.’
If anybody ought to be able to see through the ‘fog of war’ and spot shaming-as-a-means-to-controlling and call it what it is, we ought to be able to. They’ve been doing it to us long enough (and to our mothers, and our sisters). And if surviving it left us with any wisdom or self-respect or character, we ought to have learned not to let the bastards get away with it when the target is someone else who’s different or misunderstood (so long as they aren’t harming anybody, sorry pedobears, no tacit endorsement for you diddling non-consent-able children). The unjustly persecuted ought to stand up for each other as natural allies when the un-elected powerful fucks atop the pyramid scheme (whether they’re the majority or a minority) try to marginalize us.
But buy in to it, throw the incestuous brothers or the sapphic sisters at the mercy of any disapproving bigot, and ethically we haven’t a let to stand on when someone else tries to throw us to the wolves next. We can vigorously dissent or we can just look out for ourselves by sacrificing other ‘lessers’ on the altar of “normalcy;” complicity is guilt.
iDavid
@Grevin
Wtf is a smegwich?
@Inscrutable Ted
I agree with the Westermarck effect. This sitch is probably very rare but I don’t condemn it. I have two bros and the thought of having sex with either is so off base it isn’t even a conversation. It’s not a sick thought, just one that would NEVER even register, and that’s the norm for most.
I can see a hot guy and then talk to him for 5 Mins and it’s done and over. Zero interest.
If bros have this sort of very strong attraction thing going on, there is something much deeper there that we may not understand.
chemicalism
@Nick:
I got curious myself and decided to find out.
Flavio and Gustavo Mendonca – Brazillian Twins.
chemicalism
@Nick: @Nick:
I got curious myself and decided to find out.
Flavio and Gustavo Mendonca – Brazillian Twins.
chemicalism
@Nick: @Nick: @Nick:
I got curious myself and decided to find out.
Flavio and Gustavo Mendonca – Brazillian Twins.
chemicalism
@Nick
I got curious myself and decided to find out.
Flavio and Gustavo Mendonca – Brazillian Twins.
Code Pink
@chemicalism: Way to Quadruple post dude.
nineinchnail
Im quite sure that creepy stuff lie ths goes on all the time in rural Arkansas. Gross.
ousslander
HOw about a grown man and his father? Hot right
Brian_FTL
Um… they haven’t tried a dating website to perhaps find their 2nd soulmate?
Kyle412
Most of the gays on here are supporting the stereotype that gays are sex crazed. If you truly believe in family members having sex then where does it stop? Can a 18 year old guy go into a relationship with his 30 year old uncle? Can a 25 year old son fall in love with his 50 year old dad and live as partners? Can a mother and daughter live as lovers?
This idea that two brothers together won’t cause a birth and that is the reason it is acceptable….is just crazy talk. The responders who say that a brother and sister together is gross due to a possible birth sound mysoginistic more than concerned about the gene pool.
These twins need psychiatric help and so do most of the responders on this site.
Lefty
@Kyle412: “Most of the gays on here are supporting the stereotype that gays are sex crazed.”
Maybe they’re just being themselves, rather than worrying about stereotypes and what others think of them.
Good for them, I say.
Chuck
I agree that this is exactly the slippery slope many anti-gay Christian people tout. I’m conflicted on this as well, because I believe that argument to be wrong, but if you really think about it, there’s no inbreeding (and causing genetic defects), and they’re not hurting anyone.
While I may personally find it distasteful, I also found homosexuality distasteful for a long time, and realized that just because you find something wrong or distasteful doesn’t necessarily mean it IS wrong or distasteful, but we were raised to think that way.
They are both consenting adults, and there is no harm to come from their relationship besides familial emotional harm to their extended family. As much as I hate to say it, I believe they have a right to be together, though it does seem that we are falling down that slope that our opponents so often cite.
Oh, ok.
It has a lot more to do with it than just inbreeding. The fact of the matter is someone is raised as your sibling and you’re looking at them as a lover. That is disgusting.
It’s not our duty or right to turn the world into a massive backwoods hillbilly town after we’ve finally begun to get it through people’s heads that homosexuality is not a choice.
I’m honestly sick to my stomach reading people support the same TRASH that christian bible thumpers said we would. This has nothing to do with stereotypes and everything to do with you morons making what seemed like a very unlikely prediction come true.
Hell they even made fun of this in support of us on Futurama and here we are only a few years later with gay people saying incest is ok.
Really? There’s stupid and then there’s this.
Tiger
It’s deceptive to boil morality down to the biological fact that two brothers or sisters cannot produce their own children. Morality is about more than biology. Many of you are so focused on heteronormative relationships that you can’t think past, “OMG! What about the children!”
By that line of logic, gays (and infertile straights) are immoral because we can’t have children (outside of adoption, surrogates, etc.), and apparently for many of you, it’s ALL about the children.
I can think of several ways in which it may (or may NOT) be harmful TO THEMSELVES for siblings to commit incest or establish a romantic, sexual relationship. It depends on who’s involved. It could really screw up someone’s development into a balanced, healthy adult (or, again, it may not).
Brian_FTL
@chuck
we? no- they.
the other Greg
@Kyle412: Never underestimate the pervy-ness of the Queerty readership!
“These twins need psychiatric help and so do most of the responders on this site.”
But remember, the one brother supposedly wants a therapist to approve of the relationship, so they can tell the family about it! How twisted is that? And what if they find a therapist who approves?!? Yikes.
(That is, if one believes this ridiculous made-up story in the first place – see #67 – but for the sake of argument and to address readers’ sick reactions to it, let’s assume for the moment it’s true.)
“Most of the gays on here are supporting the stereotype that gays are sex crazed.”
But the scary thought is that a lot of the comments here seem so awestruck by the faux-romantic angle. It’s not the sex alone that’s creepy, IMO; I suppose if these two had “experimented” when young, maybe that’s not too unusual. But these twins claim to have “been in love” since they were 14 or so – readers are impressed by such nauseating dreck, seriously? – and they’ve been in a “monogamous relationship” for at least ten years, maybe fifteen. So the problem may be that they’re NOT sex-crazed enough, to have sex OR relationships like halfway-normal guys?
Apparently some gay men are always impressed by gay male monogamy, no matter how psychologically twisted it is. Ooooh, these guys are in lo-o-o-ove, and they’re monogamous! = automatically good, so “they’re not hurting anyone” (except themselves, of course).
The really creepy part is that neither twin has even TRIED to have a grown-up relationship of any sort, ever. And most guys here are applauding this.
drulandian
Not gonna lie. I think that gay twincest is hot. I am a fan of the Peter Twins, etc. I am a fan of my husband and his twin brother…wait…that one is in my head.
But, really, it is their choice. It makes them happy. Who are any of us to judge what they want to do? It will not change anything about my personal life if they love each other and have sex.
Furthermore, I do not believe incest is really an issue anyone should be concerned with in consenting same-sex couples as there can be no mutant offspring. But, that’s just me.
shannon
THIS IS DISGUSTING!!!!! NO WONDER SOCIETY SEES US A SEX CRAZED….HEATHENS……JEEZ…….CAN WE STOP BEING SEX CRAZED ANIMALS FOR ONE WEEK???
B
No. 88 · shannon wrote, “THIS IS DISGUSTING!!!!! NO WONDER SOCIETY SEES US A SEX CRAZED….HEATHENS…” Sigh. This is porn. Whether disgusting or not, porn is not typical of how gays (or straights, for that matter) behave, and this sort of porn is a tiny fraction of porn in general – pop your head into the “adult” section of some video store and whatever you see on the covers, it will rarely be twins.
The only thing vaguely “gay” about it is that these guys are identical twins, which you won’t see in straight porn because identical twins always have the same gender.
If “society” somehow “thinks” that porn is indicative of how gays behave in real life, that is simply a symptom of prejudice.
Kayak
First of all, the whole world is sexually repressed, that’s why there are so many porn sites, and crazy stuff going on.
Second, true love is true love. Our bodies here on Earth is nothing but clothing, we ourselves are spirits/souls. In that case, WHO CARES?! Let them love who they want. People love to judge and get freaked out. They are doing it, doesn’t mean you have to. Let them live, salute to them.
Marcel
Twins having had sex growing up might be even normal in the context of exploration, and can be fetishized by many (Gay men and straight men might fantasize about twins having sex but not having sex with their own twin or sibling.) But an actual relationship between siblings strikes me as unhealthy, in terms of mental health. I think most of us would think that sex with our siblings is gross. The argument that because they can’t have children makes it ok, I don’t buy. Finding intimacy with a relative seems like there are underlying issues. I’m not saying it should be illegal, but I do think the partners should be psychologically evaluated.
David
Incest or in this case Twincest is NEVER a good thing. No it’s never happened to me but I know people who have had incest and it did fuck them up.
Tony
Two twins having sex with me – fukhot. With each other – not so much.
TedSmitts
Ain’t nobody’s business if they do.
The Real Mike in Asheville
@shannon: Oh get over the self beating — just Google “incest porn” and 95% of the web sites found are straight related, not gay.
We are 5% (+/-) of the general population, and unsurprisingly, probably 5% (+/-) of all unorthodox sex practices (obviously incest goes beyond unorthodox) but the same ratios will apply to pretty much everything.
Ronn
I like porn just as much as any guy (gay or straight)but the idea of twins and/or any incestual sex has NEVER been a fantasy for me. For ME, this is about as gross as bestiality. However, that is ME. If they are two adults that are of sound mind and no one is being forced to do anything…I say do what you want.
I cannot be a hypocrite and support the denial of their right to do what they want (at least in terms of privacy) just because I think its gross. When you get at the core honest reason why people are against gays it really isnt religous reasons (as they claim) it’s the ick factor.
DenverBarbie
A rat’s ass shouldn’t be given to what the evangelical republicans think. They’re going to find us to be depraved and lustful creatures, regardless of whether or not we have brothers among us who choose to consummate their love.
And I’m sure this relationship is more genuine than any of Gingrich’s past!
wtfc
@Oh, ok.: so…everyone’s supposed to just shut up and not have an opinion because you’re afraid of the icky factor? Get real. If you’re buying into the “slippery slope” arguments put forth by the wingnuts, then you need an education and a clue. STFU already, you coward.
Lee
Reine everyone has a comment……good or bad…..remember it’s between the twins babies…twins: I think it’s an issue of self love, that u love urself so much that the problem is because ur twins, u can never escape urself…..try loving others as well as u love urself and see if the binds that bind u to love each other sexually doesn’t loosen…..ur both sexy and I think ur just attracted to that in each other….other people are just as loving and as sexy as u two….why can’t I meet someone like even one of u, let alone two.
Lee
remember everyone has a comment……good or bad…..remember it’s between the twins babies…twins: I think it’s an issue of self love, that u love urself so much that the problem is because ur twins, u can never escape urself…..try loving others as well as u love urself and see if the binds that bind u to love each other sexually doesn’t loosen…..ur both sexy and I think ur just attracted to that in each other….other people are just as loving and as sexy as u two….why can’t I meet someone like even one of u, let alone two.
Twin
Man, how has no one who’s an identical twin posted? I read this on Slate and was disgusted. I am an identical twin. I’ve lived with my brother for many years and this thought has NEVER entered my head, thank God. Are people actually okay with this? Would you really say it’s okay for a mother and her son to have a sexual relationship (assume she can’t have kids) so it’s okay? There are millions of other people in the world, there is no need for these two to have a relationship. I doubt that this is a real letter. I cannot think of any of the twins I’ve known ever considering this either. It’s the people who aren’t twins that romanticize being one. Sick. There simply is no reason for family members to knowingly enter into romantic relationships. This kind of thing is sick and is an embarrassment to real twins. I should add, that we have another brother the same age and I have never considered sex with him either (2 eggs one split). Unless you people who are okay with it, would be okay with your mother coming onto you (or your dad for that matter), you’re liars. Think about if it were some 60 year old 250lb flabby twins. Would that be attractive and hot? Gays are so puerile (no matter the scenario, if they imagine “hot” guys doing it, it’s okay).
Twin
In the gay community, the only “sin” apparently,for some, is not being hot. Sad.
Jaroslaw
Where does it say these brothers never tried a relationship with another person? That aside, how many people never find love or happiness? Is this odd, unusual etc? Sure, but it is their business, if they are happy, let them be.
the other Greg
@Jaroslaw: Read the letter again, and do the math: it says they’ve been in a “monogamous relationship” since college at least ten years ago, maybe 15. And oh, they supposedly “fell in love” at the age of 14 (barf!) or so. If, at their separate colleges, either of them EVER tried a very brief relationship with another person, they sure didn’t give it much of a try. These brothers are seriously mentally ill, stuck in an juvenile, narcissistic mess. And the one brother is determined to make their entire family unhappy about it.
Are they “happy”? Compared to what? Those who’ve “never found love or happiness” who jerk off to narcissistic fantasies like this one? Wow, you’ve lowered the bar about as far as it can go.
B
No. 82 · prop8boy wrote, “This is an illegal activity. There are laws against incest in all 50 states.” Not so fast. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest#United_States – it appears that laws regarding incest vary between states. Rhode Island apparently repealed its criminal statute in 1989.
According to http://law.justia.com/codes/california/2009/pen/281-289.6.html the law in California is
285. Persons being within the degrees of consanguinity within which
marriages are declared by law to be incestuous and void, who
intermarry with each other, or who being 14 years of age or older,
commit fornication or adultery with each other, are punishable by
imprisonment in the state prison.
Whether this covers same-sex incest is not clear due to the wording of Proposition Eight. Prop 8 added the sentence, “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or
recognized in California,” to the state constitution. One might argue that the phrase “the degrees of consanguinity within which marriages are declared by law to be incestuous and void” cannot cover same-sex sexual relations because covering those would require that same-sex marriages be recognized (in the sense of existing).
This is an interesting argument – it suggests that Proposition Eight, touted using the proverbial “slippery slope” argument, in fact greased the skids to the point where any slope, no matter how slight, is enough to perpetrate the act.
Duke Igthorn
Okay just a little hint to all those being “disgusted” or even having a “moral” issue here.
Please think before you judge… hard.
The whole incest taboo is just as silly as being against gay couples in general and here is why:
The risk of sick offspring is non-existent in a gay couple AND has been disproven long ago for hetero incestous couples for pretty obvious reasons if you have even a little understanding of genetics.
The only “risk” would be a pre-existing genetic anomaly that in an incestous offspring would be activated by default due to the irrelevance of one part being dominant or not, since it’s present in both genetic sets. To outlaw that, would in conclusion also have to outlaw any relations between partners that randomly suffer from the same genetic anomaly, which, oh wonder, no one claims.
Also incest happens in nature… ALL THE TIME without bringing upon the downfall of a species. The only reason non related couples are preferred in evolutionary terms is that over hundreds of generations it OF COURSE is more stable and healthy to mix up the gene pool because that makes evolutionary processes more efficient. But that doesn’t say anything about an incestous occurance every once in a while being detrimental at all. Nor does that have any meaning towards us thinking about to people who love each other.
It happened all the time, it happens all the time and it will happen all the time in the future.
And this whole thing isn’t even relevant for gay incestous couples anyways.
With that “reason” dealt with, EVERY other reason to have issues with it stem from what?
Right, a sense of “morality”.
And what creates those aside from the basic ethics hardcoded into us?
Usualy religion, or just tradition.
Neither are a valid reason to keep two people apart that do no harm to anyone, which brings me to my main argument. No one has a say in what two equal adult consenting persons do. Period.
To disagree with THAT would automatically give a free pass to not be okay with gay couples as well, because it enables judgement and ruling as a matter of arbitrary decisions, which by default are unacceptable for any civilized society. (The fact that they still exist in most countries doesn’t change anything about their invalidity.)
If you have no actual reasons other than you “feeling icky” about it, stop being judgemental, or you act like any homophobe would, just for a different minority.
Just because the instances of incestous couples being even fewer occuring than instances of gay couples, doesn’t diminish their validity any more than gay couples being fewer occuring than hetero couples.
The so called “slippery slope” argument is also invalid, because the reasoning here is THE SAME as in justifying gay couples. It also can’t lead to legalizing “men marrying trees” because trees are not able to consent, nor are horses… or children. Which essentially disproves the whole slippery slope concept in its entirety anyways.
And starting the argument: “But we are not animals, we can control ourselfes.” Seriously? By that logic, again, we could just as well ban gay behaviour too because we could just control ourselfes so well, right? – Yeah, didn’t think so…
Allowing it wouldn’t encourage people to be any more incestous than allowing gay couples would create more gayness. All it would do is… prevent misery.
So what it comes down to is, think a little before judging other peoples love life. I am weirded out by incest myself, yet I don’t go and try to impose my personal feelings as “should be”s or “ought to be”s.
We don’t “choose” whom we fall in love with. It happens. And seldom enough the target of our love feels the same way back to us. What kind of cruel and ignorant person would I have to be to want to destroy that, just because I personally can’t get a boner over it?
That is all. 🙂
Deer Jesus
I don’t have a twin, but I do have a sister. I have also studied anthropology. One of the things you learn in the human sexuality/gender class is that there’s more to the incest taboo than societal pressures and the fear of inbred children. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v445/n7129/full/nature05510.html People have already mentioned the Westermarck effect. When incest taboos cover all cultures there has to be more to it than society.
The thought of incest or twincest has always made me nauseous. Most of you must be only children. This is sick.
the other Greg
@Duke Igthorn: You conflate several unrelated subjects. (Again, I think it’s a fictional story and complete bullshit, but this is to address defenders’ reactions.) And maybe you’re the only defender who doesn’t get a boner from this curious story, judging from the 60 (!!!) “HOT” votes it got: a recent Queerty record!
You also conflate any occasional act of incest with this (supposed) monogamous decades-long psycho-sexual obsession. If the American Psychiatric Association is truly cool with that, as they decided to be with homosexuality in 1973, then maybe we have a comparison.
The twins seem unconcerned about theoretical government prosecution, if any, nor do they seem to want a government imprimatur of marriage; the one is merely demented enough to want to their family to approve.
(But I’m guessing your answer to the hypothetical father-son or mother-daughter thing, that someone else brought up, must be a yes?… using your reasoning as presented here?)
Like each and every defender here, you make a sinister and (unwittingly) self-hating homophobic assumption: that lo-o-o-o-ve is in such short supply among homosexual relationships that we MUST approve of it wherever among our rocky soil it may spring up…. and we must “prevent misery,” because it otherwise these two will end up ALL ALONE and it would be so “cruel” to “destroy” this lo-o-o-ove they have and condemn them to a lifetime of loneliness, boo hoo hoo!
This mawkish assumption, not the story, is what’s so nauseating.
the other Greg
@Duke Igthorn: You conflate several unrelated subjects. (To reiterate, I think it’s a fictional story, but this is to address defenders’ reactions.) And maybe you’re the only defender who doesn’t get a boner from this curious story, judging from the 62 (!!!) “HOT” votes it got: a recent Queerty record!
You conflate the legal stuff (if any) with the psychiatric disorder itself, and any occasional act of incest (okay, it happens) with the monogamous decades-long psycho-sexual obsession described here. If the American Psychiatric Association is truly cool with that, as they decided to be with homosexuality in 1973, then maybe you have a comparison.
(But I’m guessing your answer to the hypothetical father-son or mother-daughter thing, that someone else brought up, must be a yes?… using your reasoning as presented here?)
Like so many defenders here, you make a sinister and (unwittingly) self-hating homophobic assumption: that lo-o-o-o-ve is in such short supply among homosexual relationships that we MUST approve of it wherever among our rocky soil it may spring up…. and we must “prevent misery,” because it otherwise these two will end up ALL ALONE and it would be so “cruel” to “destroy” this lo-o-o-ove they have and condemn them to a lifetime of loneliness, boo hoo hoo!
This mawkish assumption, not the story, is what’s so nauseating.
Vannah
First off, I don’t understand that principal at all. According to the theory you can’t be attracted to people you were raised around in your early years. I was around my boyfriend from the time I was about 10 months old and he was just born. And since he’s m boyfriend, we’re obviously attracted to each other. And you can’t say we didn’t spend enough time together when we were little for it to take effect. It had to have been at least 70 to 80 hours a week which is over 10 hours a day. So anyone who would like to explain that, please do. I’m curious as to what ya’ll think. Also, what these guys are doing is their business. I don’t see why ya’ll have to turn it into scientific facts and moral codes or if you just think it’s icky or not. It doesn’t effect any of you. Ya’ll will probably never meet them and it’s not going to stop just because you want it to. If you’re going to have a conversation on it, grow up and stop posting stuff like it’s icky or typing in all caps like you’re sitting at your computers throwing a hissie fit. If you hate it that bad, then why did you even read the article. Thank ya’ll for reading! Have a nice day! (or night, depending on when you’re reading this)
iDavid
The rate of incident is so minuscule this hardly merits discussion, other than for entertainment value. As for the human race possibly declining and dying over this subject, if that ever commences, then stats and moral codes would be worth addressing. Until then, to each his own.
jwtraveler
I was once riding a crowded subway and saw two attractive young men standing close together and talking quietly. I couldn’t see their faces well or hear what they were saying, but I sensed an intimacy between them, which interested me. I assumed they were a couple. When they prepared to get off the train, I got a good look at their faces and realized that they were twins. I know nothing about them, but I was fascinated that these twins had an intimacy that i
jwtraveler
OOPS. To continue:….I was fascinated that these twins had an intimacy that I mistook for a romantic relationship. It never occurred to me that it could be a romantic relationship. Either way, it was an interesting and pleasant observation.
IcarusD
As a twin, I have absolutely no interest in having sex with my brother. I have no interest in seeking out twins for a three-way, either. That said, if two hot twins were to pursue me for a three-way, I’d say yes — not because they were twins but because they were hot.
Atldeuce
I suspect that if this letter was from twin women, straight guys would be all in favor.
John
2009 film “From Beginning to End” they were not twins but brothers (half-brothers) and they had a relationship together. It was an eye opening movie to me and very well done. I thought of it when I was reading this.
JanArrah
@Puck: Actually no.. the Constitution says there is nothing about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That would be the Declaration of Independence. Vastly different documents. One is the legal framework for our country (the constitution), another was a stiffly worded letter telling King George, we’re done with his shenanigans.
JacksonsPassion
Y’know what—I personally think it’s lovely! These two guys hugged and caressed naked since they were in their mother’s womb. Brothers, (those who get along) have that automatic / permanent protective bond (“I’ve got your back no matter what!”)…and isn’t that what we all want in a relationship. We’re all just lonely souls living our time on Earth, and finding happiness is a beautiful thing. These guys were born together, are happy together, and so why is it so unnatural to let them realize that they’re happiest spending life together? Maybe this is a TRUE definition of being “meant to be together forever”!? Just be happy, guys!! We get only these fast 80 or so years to enjoy the life we’re given…I hope you get to enjoy it however you want to, fuck judgements! 🙂 XO