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Support for civil unions for gays is up to 57 percent of Americans, says new poll data released by the Pew Research Center conducted in August with more than 4,000 people. That’s a increase from last year’s 54 percent and 2003’s 45 percent. But what about full marriage rights?
Sorry, the outlook isn’t so rosy. Just 39 percent support legalizing same-sex marriage, while a full 53 percent remain opposed. “There was more support for same-sex marriage among women, adults under 30 and college-educated people than there was among men, older adults and those who did not attend college. Asked about homosexual behavior, 49 percent said it is morally wrong, 9 percent said it is morally acceptable and 35 percent said it is not a moral issue.”
And so begins the latest round of spin from everyone from HRC to the American Family Assocation, delivering data morsels crafted to reflect their agendas. You know how this song and dance goes.
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Aaron
heh, statistics.
But at least we know its rising. Ever so slowly.
PopSnap
Exactly why we NEED that Olson-Boise(SP?) lawsuit. That’s the ONLY way we will win marriage equality in anywhere other than New England and the West Coast.
Of course, we could just wait for people to grow up and older people to die off which has been working since about the sixties, but probably isn’t the most effective strategy.
Rob
I was pleasantly surprised to find out that a majority of Catholics support same-sex marriage.
ProfessorVP
Interesting to say the least, having your full citizenship as a poll question. I have to wonder how the different groups
that are so virulently opposed to full citizenship and the rights that go with it, for gays and lesbians… how they would feel if they really knew what one group was saying privately about the other. What white evangelicals and high school
dropouts think of blacks. What blacks think of conservative Republicans and white holy rollers. And on and on. Of course, Pew isn’t about to run such a survey.
Merv
Not in our lifetimes. There has been essentially no increase in support in the last decade. Even if the support were higher, it would not translate into political support. Over 75% have supported employment non-discrimination since forever, but we are no closer to passing ENDA than we ever were.
The only surprise was Hispanics now showing significantly higher support than whites. Blacks are overwhelmingly anti-gay.
Until we wipe out Christianity, we will continue to be shat upon. Christianity isn’t going anywhere.
Steve
The Pew Research company is reliably conservative. I don’t trust those numbers, because of the source.
Polling companies can and do produce numbers to please their stead customers. They don’t actually make numbers up out of thin air. They do choose the wording of the questions. And they do choose who to ask. On most issues, the results can be moved up to ten points in either direction by wording the questions. And, the results can be moved greatly by selecting people “randomly”, but in particular congressional districts.
There are lots of ways to word questions about gay marriage. Here are two extreme examples that will produce very different results:
1. Should your church be forced to do weddings for gay couples?
2. Should gay people have the same civil relationship rights as straight people?
reason
Merv you have to take into account the number of people surveyed in each group to determine significances. Also, you have to take into account reasoning for the differences i.e. how many of the blacks had a college education? That could make up the 10% difference between the whites surveyed. Also with the Hispanics you have to question why there numbers are higher; common world knowledge tells me that Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic so no surprise Catholics polled at 45 ohhh and guess what Hispanics polled at 45 a possible explanation in the differences between whites and blacks. I am not trying to be rude but what is gotten out of statistics depends on the intelligence of the person viewing them; that is why statistic is so often used in advertisement, so they can deceive people.
Eric
Here’s my spin:
58% of the 18-24 age group is in favour of marriage equality, support goes down as people get older. This means it’s a matter of time. As the older generations are pushed off the board (so to speak) and the younger generations take over, overall support will rise.
Repeal this, lawsuit that, it can all work to bring equality NOW and it’s definitely worth fighting for (the sooner, the better). But even if they don’t work, support will grow steadily. Give it a generation.
naghanenu
Hi everyone,
We all know that the majority of the world population does not support gays.
scott ny'er
i guess we should be thankful for small gifts.
slowly the tide is turning. but it’s slow.
i don’t know if i’ll see gay marriage acceptance in my lifetime but maybe my kids will, if I ever have kids.
merkin
Maybe i didnt read the piece carefully enough, but what are they defining civil unions as? If its exactly the same as marriage, then Ill take it? As much as I understand the importance of dignity, we did ourselves a disservice pushing for marriage instead of civil unions. We’d probably have the rights we want by now, and could maybe subtly move towards marriage.
For better or worse, all civil rights movements have achieved their goals in dribs and drabs. We have to accept that, even if its demeaning, to get what we want.
tinkerbell
I’m so sick of sitting back and begging the straight majority for equality. It’s time for us to say enough is enough and DEMAND to be treated the same as everyone else. The 50s-60s civil rights movement never sat back and hoped that things would change ever so slowly. They spoke out and they acted accordingly.
Merv
Even the support for civil unions is illusory. If you asked a generic question about civil unions in Washington state, it would probably poll around 60%. Gay marriage would poll around 45%. But ask likely voters if they will vote for the current civil union referendum and only 45% say yes. The support for gay rights is vastly OVERstated by polls.
It also doesn’t capture the intensity of support. The 5% who are gay voters strongly support gay rights and will make phone calls and donations. The 25% who are evangelicals, Mormons, or conservative Catholics are probably even more intense on the other side, plus they are by default well-organized in their churches. If you are a politician and your phone calls are running 5-1 against gay rights, who will you listen to? We have a huge built-in disadvantage.
Merv
“Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic so no surprise Catholics polled at 45 ohhh and guess what Hispanics polled at 45 a possible explanation in the differences between whites and blacks”
I would say a more likely explanation is that Hispanics tend to be younger. The Catholic church isn’t exactly pro-gay.
Blacks are even more overwhelmingly Democrat than Hispanics are Catholic, and Democrats support gay marriage between 41% and 72% (mod/cons and liberal, respectively), yet blacks are only at 26%.
PopSnap
At this point, I could live with something like a nation-wide civil union bill in Congress like there is in Britain. Not that marriage wouldn’t be great, but if the Olson-Boies lawsuit fails then we’d have to settle for that. And we’d legally get our rights, to be certain. It’s just retarded people who are all upset over a word that are holding us back.
Looks like we’ll get the Hate Crimes bill for certain, ENDA is likely, and maybe even a DADT repeal. These are all good things that should be our priority, not marriage. As a younger gay person, marriage equality is important to me of course, but not quite as much as the above are.
Brian
No. 3 · Rob: “I was pleasantly surprised to find out that a majority of Catholics support same-sex marriage.”
Then how about you get Catholics to change their beliefs? Or else quit.
ProfessorVP
Merkin, by pushing for civil unions, domestic parnerships, or pet shop licenses (Do you, Fido, take Fifi…?) what you are doing is telling society that you will accept less than full citizenship because you admit you deserve less.
I don’t recall any blacks fighting for the middle of the bus. There are some things you can compromise on, and some things you can’t. DADT is a perfect example of how some compromises, by the very nature of the issue at hand, are barely credible on paper, totally unrealistic and dumb in practice.
terrwill
What this whole thing boils down to is I want the EXACT SAME RIGHTS that hetrosexuals have in EVERY ASPECT of my life. I pay the same taxes as they do. What we have to realize and accept as a community is that the first way to win a war is to start winning battles. If we can achieve equality with “civil unions” as opposed to “marriage” what is the big fucking deal? The word “marriage” is derived from religous ceremonies in the 13th Century. Most religions still think we are in the 13th Century with regards to Gays. Ever Gay union I have attended is more heartfelt and inspiring than any marriage I have attended in any church or temple. If we can get the same rights as every other American can get, have the same rights and benfits under law as straight couples have, and be able to create and design our own ways and ceremonies to enter our commitments what is the loss there? Fuck the haters and the word “marriage” And again you an overall war by winning the battles. Once we have established that Gay unions are not going to be the downfall of civilizationas we know it, if some are still so damm obsessed on the word “marriage” revisit the situation a few years down the road…………
terrwill
sp “civilizations” when is Queerty gonna install spellchek???
;-P
terrwill
And one more item……I am thouroghly disgusted by the Black community. They went throught the exact same struggles we are now facing in the 1960’s and yet they are have a higher percentage against Gays than any other group. Including the very culturally conserative Hispanic community. It seems they have a very short memory about their struggle.We didn’t chose to be Gay any more than didn’t chose to be Black…………… And it seems they tend to turn on those who have helped them in the past. One of the groups who supported them activly in the 60’s struggle for equality was the Jewish community. How many times have we seen Black so called leaders (thats you Louie, Jessee, Big Al) make slurs about the Jews in recent times?
Merv
It’s disappointing that there is comparitively low support in the black community, but it’s wrong to condemn them as a group.
First of all, one in four do support us, and they don’t deserve our condemnation. Second, while support among black voters is low, support among black politicians and civil rights leaders is relatively high. Coretta Scott King supported gay rights. Mildred Loving, who was part of the landmark Virginia v. Loving anti-miscegenation case, supported gay marriage. Julian Bond, chairman of the NAACP, supports gay marriage. Civil rights leader and US Representative John Lewis from Georgia is a strong supporter of gay marriage, as is civil rights leader Julian Bond.
In Georgia and Mississippi, legislative opposition to anti-gay marriage amendments was led by black legislators. In 2004, 17 Mississippi representatives voted against such a ban. All of them were black.
So, while I’m just as frustrated as you by lack of support among the black community, let’s not paint with such a broad brush that we forget our straight black allies there who are willing to speak up against the majority, not to mention gay black people who are even more affected by this than most of us are.
terrwill
Merv: I am sorry but 25% Black “approval” is way too low. They were the most recent group of persons targeted by the rightwing-nutbags. I am sure that many of those who wish to deny our equal rights were themselves the victims of jim crow laws forcing them to drink from separate fountains, piss in different urinals, be denied seats in restaurants, DENIED THE RIGHT TO MARRY WHOM THEY WANTED, et all. And yet 75% of them have no sympathy for our current struggle. Sorry no go on giving them a pass. And while Corretta King was indeed an ally, and one of the King’s daughters is in support of us. Martin Luther King Jr. is a very vocal opponent of Gay rights and marriage. Again for a group so recently to enjoy the equal rights we seek to have 75% disapproval rate is disgraceful.
I wish the majority the members of our community would take my posiiton as in post #18. We are never going to change the minds (or lack of one) in the majority of the over 45 population in regards to our rights. The likes of Barney Frank while he should be commended for all that he has done are set in their ways. The march on Washington today had a huge percentage of younger people than ever before. The vast majority of teens and twentysomes both Gay and Straight think being Gay is really no big deal. Read the posts of PopSnap who is a frequent poster here, he is a younger Gay (from his posts I assume in his teens) and his posts make a lot of sense and show that there is indeed a better future for the Gays…………
Merv
Twenty-five percent is too low. The 75% deserve every bit of scorn directed at them for their shameful behavior. However, the 25% don’t deserve to be lumped in with them by blanket statements about “the black community.”
reason
No.14 Merv
You may be correct on the Hispanics that were polled may have been younger, but that is the point that I was trying to get across, its hard to judge if the statistics are truly representative. If it was weighted toward younger Hispanics, evangelical blacks, or older whites its hard to put much faith in the numbers.
No. 21 Merv
I agree with you on this post estranging black allies is asinine.
No. 20 · terrwill
Your post is ridiculous “black so called leaders” Louie (not a leader) farrakhan is Islamic the last time I checked, and what I know from history Islam and Judaism are not quite friendly. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton you must be lost in the sixties. These people are certainly not not leaders. Most African Americans I know think very highly of Jews, a group that has been pivotal in fighting for their rights.
Speaking of Sharpton (I am not up to speed on what he said but antisemitic comments are never okay) he is an advocate for LGBT on every issue facing the community including marriage http://lesbianlife.about.com/cs/workschool/p/AlSharpton.htm
Although I would be loathe to point to anyone as a “leader” of a group, if you look to black leadership in the congress, people with actual power (you can get an idea of who they are by examining members of the congressional black caucus), there is strong support for gay rights; this includes Yvette Clarke (straight, religious) who aided in starting the LGBT Equality Caucus (an organization in congress that fights for gay rights), and is a member along with: the chairman of the congressional black caucus Barbra Lee, all three of the black congresspeople from Texas (my state), and lots of other black congresspeople.
Give up on people over 45? I am not giving up on anyone, some of these people have little understanding or exposure to homosexuality. If anything we need to be working as hard as we can to reach out to and educate everyone. Redemption is something that can be accomplished at any point in someones life, and if there is something I can do to aide that process I will be there. Also, things do not end with being granted equal rights; we are working toward social change of this society (the homosexual conspiracy that brings chills to Rush Limbaugh’s drug infested bones), so that future generations will not be looked down upon or slurred by anyone.
reason
Everyone should be writing original handwritten non-condescending but strong letters supporting equal rights to their U.S. Senators and Representatives (regardless of political party), and the President at the very least. Hopefully, you can also type a letter and send copies (change the names)to all representatives and senators in your statehouse.
terrwill
Reason:
You wrote:
” Louie (not a leader) farrakhan
How come a man who is “not a leader” can generate this many people to a march:
Finally, within the first twenty-four hours following the March a conflict between March organizers and Park Service officials erupted over crowd size estimates. The National Park Service issued an estimate of about 400,000 attendees[6], a number significantly lower than March organizers had hoped for.[7] After a heated exchange between leaders of the march and Park Service, ABC-TV funded researchers at Boston University who estimated the crowd size to be 837,000 plus or minus 20%.[6]
What would then happen if he was a “leader”??????
reason
No. 26 · terrwill
What march? Where and when did it take place? Your post lacks any specifics, and frankly I have no idea what you are referring to.