I’ve written lots of articles on the pros and cons of being an older gay man and some of the misconceptions the younger generation has about us Daddies (yes, I’m fine with that label).
But, like a really good Saturday night, there’s a flip side to everything. So here, a few things I’ve learned that we older men should avoid saying when we meet the younger folk we are interested in dating or befriending. To research this piece I got a little help from my friends—and if you don’t get that reference, I just can’t even.
1. You’re too young to understand
There’s nothing worse than discounting someone’s argument, not on lack of merit, but on their basic existence. While a young guy might not be able to converse knowledgeably about that crucial Cyndi Lauper v. Madonna debacle, he can certainly relate on different levels. Besides, what better way to get to know someone than to offer up a pop history lesson? As a bonus, you might get educated on the Taylor Swift v. Everyone stories that elude most guys who already earned their reputations by 1989.
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2. Aren’t you a little young to be at this bar?
Reverse ageism does exist, so don’t be the older snob who wants the kids to disappear. Maybe he likes the company of older men (Hello! Score!), and maybe he finds some of the bars that cater to men his age lacking in the maturity factor. Regardless of whether you are into younger guys or not, be inclusive and invite him to the party. You might just learn something.
3. Your generation has it easy
And you know this, because? While it’s true that human rights have excelled since the days we were marching, and dying, being in your 20s is never a picnic. I can’t imagine growing up in today’s world, with cyberbullying and social media disconnection and Orange-Hole in the White House. Be thrilled your work helped the young man gain rights, don’t give him a hall pass for ignorance, but do realize that just maybe he’s experiencing difficulties you never had to face.
4. I don’t do chicken
Yeah, and maybe he has a distaste for pigs. It’s fine and understandable if you’re not attracted to younger men, but be polite about it, unlike those kids who say they don’t want to date “gramps.” We’re so quick to qualify our rejections based on generalizations, and it’s kinder to politely say thank you for asking me out, but there’s a little lack of chemistry. You’re not lying, and you didn’t just negate as unattractive an entire generation.
5. I can’t wait to top you
Speaking of generalizations, you might want to get to the bottom of this one before assuming how the night’s going to work out. You could end up with a Top O the Mornin, Mate.
6. Back in my day…
First off, that makes you sound old because the expression’s been around longer than Cher’s Farewell Tours. When I was in my 20s and someone started a sentence with that phrase, I always rolled my eyes because I knew it meant I was going to get a lesson on how much better/smarter/more disciplined people were in the good old days—and by the way, they weren’t always that good. Nothing’s changed, so I suggest you use this phrase sparingly, and with an emphasis on the dynamics of change, not the demerits. Expressions like “If you think Man Buns are dumb, back in my day we sported mullets” are always welcome additions to the conversation. When in doubt, think first—and not just about sporting your own man bun.
7. All of my friends died of AIDS, so don’t ever complain to me about anything
The HIV/AIDS pandemic is forever embedded in our history and our consciousness, and it has been our war. But we also need to remember that HIV still exists and kids are growing up under the specter of death. Most of their gay, adult role models—the ones who survived—are vets, and judging by the PrEP-or-not-to-PrEP feuds alone, the young guys are struggling to figure out how best to sexually proceed.
As an addendum to #3, we didn’t grow up with skyscrapers imploding over our cities, with mass shootings almost weekly, with authoritarianism at democracy’s doorstep. That’s not necessarily a “gay” list (although Fascism’s never been much of a friend to the queers), but it’s a reminder that every generation fights its own wars. The free-love/Stonewall/Vietnam generation above me had a lot of perks going for it, but a hell of a lot of darkness too.
Together, let’s concentrate on the heart of it.
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jkthsnk
Mostly true and valid.
Troyfight
^yup. Some good ones in there.
tham
#6 and 7 are more of a Grand daddie issue.
ChrisK
Reminds me of Grandpa Simpson.
Back in my day i had to walk fifteen miles to school in the snow. Barefoot and uphill both ways!
davio2
I dont think #7 is a “grand daddie issue”. I’m 48 – not young but certainly not a grandpa and witnessing many friends die on a weekly or monthly basis in the late 80’s and early to mid-1990’s is not a joke. That takes a serious emotional toll on people. Screw you for trying to dismiss it as a grandpa issue. We are the generation that made it easy for queens like you to openly and freely be bitchy queens.
sfhairy
Davio, preach! All the “youth” is worried/bitching about now is if you don’t use the right gender word for them. They can thank our generation and the generations before us for that marvelous freedom of telling the world that they are Xe, She, Him, Xer, Their and getting their panties twisted because we refuse to ask them what the preference is.
ChrisK
The only thing I disagree with is number 3. This generation does have it much easier and that’s a good thing. Online bullying is nothing compared to the way it was back then.
RnDC
While many things are easier today, a lot of things are way more complicated. Plenty of gay kids in the last 10 years have committed suicide because of online bullying so I have to disagree with your assessment.
Coreydnyc
it says this generation has it EASY not easier. its just dismissive. valid and understandable list
startenout
Actually, having learned about cyber bullying from my own students, I can say it’s SO much worse.
At least before this, you could go home and feel safe for a while from the bullies at your school; now, add strangers from around the world who feed into the mob mentality ugliness and bully you 24/7/365 until you mentally snap, so you’re not safe in your own space unless you cut yourself off completely from the outside world including all social media, texting and even online gaming.
OzJosh
OnLine bullying is a whole lot less life threatening – physically and psychologically – than being hunted, beaten, openly ostracised and insulted and living with the constant fear of all those things every day of your life. Yes, it’s unpleasant and shouldn’t happen. But it’s hardly worse than previous generations endured.
ShowMeGuy
Online bullying is easier to combat……turn off the device.
It isn’t like you are stuck in the cafeteria at lunch with kids screaming FAGGOT at you and the “adults in charge” not doing a damn thing to stop it.
You can’t press a button and make the kids who are throwing lit matches at you in study hall just up and vanish.
Schools have GSAs today and colleges have lgbtqia organizations where a “queer kid” can turn to so they are not alone and they have people who understand to talk with.
In 1977, you were on your own.
Cylest Brooks
Honestly, ShowMeGuy, this just proves that you have no idea what it’s like to by a youth today. You’re so far off the mark, I don’t even know where to begin.
lambchopp59
Concur, to some extent. Speaking as someone who had youth rudely interrupted by relatives of Westboro Baptist’s Phelps clan, I barely escaped the rural “good Christian” community my parents moved me to with my life. I’m glad much larger percentage of youth are growing up in more accepting environments, sad for those still in backwards communities living in their 1950’s revival delusion, and scared as hell President Pence will try and revive practically all forms of bigotry in the name of Jeebus.
I recall being on the other end of “I don’t like chicken” in my youth. I also recall just ignoring the insult, which often came from the loudmouth flamer sort I’d cringe and walk away from anyway.
Gay youth in accepting families do need to be reminded there are many others who are dumpster diving, resorting to desperate measures just to eat and sleeping under freeway bridges at 16, as I had to do. Let’s all hope and pray, if you like, we don’t end up like Russian style homophobic rule under Pence.
JoeyRamone
And I, in my 40s, had it easier than the generation before me. Being a gay youth is always hard. But give me a break about cyber bullying. I wish that street corner I had to walk past (or bus I had to take) was as easy something I could have turned off as easy as an electronic device. Good thing is most teens today don’t even use Facebook or Twitter. Instagram will have its dying day too.
JoeyRamone
Cyst Brooks. Get huh.
ShowMeGuy
Cylest Brooks……I’ll tell you where to begin…..I work with today’s youth at school and at church. I know full well what kids today are dealing with. Thank you.
Ronrico
Cylest Brooks, What is it like to by a youth today?
tomtwo
Thank you! I appreciate your comments. Having reached my senior years this was very helpful. I heard and saw so many judgments made in regard to the older men when I was very young and popular. I didn’t like those judgments then and I don’t like them especially now. I was told that after 30, forget it. What a stupid comment. I learned how stupid that was as I became older. I am now hopefully transitioning into a distinguished guy who still has much to give and much to receive. Thank you for your guidance. At any age it is important to listen and understand others.
Tigertail57
Hi TomTwo. I like your easy, almost easy- breezy way of assessing the topic and commenting on it. Now that I have reached an age where there is just no denying that I am “up there” in age, I too am having thoughts about how I may be perceived by others. But it’s no big deal, really. Everyone here needs to keep in mind that there are quite a few guys that like older guys. I think it happens much more these days than when I was in my twenties. That is for sure. I am just saying…
fur_hunter
There are 3 things I DO ask should I be considering a relationship with someone.
1. Where were you when Kennedy got shot in Dallas?………….I do NOT want to hear…”I wasn’t born yet.”
2. Who are Peter, Paul and Mary?…………I do NOT want to hear…..”Oh…You mean those folks in the Bible?”
3. When I speak of the Jefferson Airplane……….I do NOT want to hear…..”Oh….Isn’t that, that new airline. I haven’t flown on them yet.”
I have discovered that if you do NOT have things in common with your partner, the relationship is doomed…..Unless you are buying one…and THAT is NOT a relationship.
martin_erickson
Well put. Thank you. As a new septugenarian who is having difficulty reconciling chronological age, experience age, emotional age, and peer-perceived age (most people are almost shocked to learn I am 70 because of energy, vocabulary, relational abilities, talents, education, etc…..Mensa, ADD, et al. are factors), I appreciate your insight and its affirmation.
fur_hunter
To martin_erickson…..Some of us have been lucky and been given good genes. Yeah. Hang in there. By the way, the photo of me here, YES…it’s REALLY me….was taken Dec.31, 2016. This June 4, 2018, I will be 73. Many folks say I do not look my age. My last partner was 13 years younger than me and did not look his age, either. He passed away this past Christmas Day, 2017. He was a brilliant artist. The world has lost a very talented man….and I have lost a wonderful, caring, considerate, kind and loving man.
Mack
1. On my way home school on the school bus; 2, they sang among other things “Puff the Magic Dragon” and “Where have all the flowers gone”; 3. My favorite is “White Rabbit” and “Somebody to love” with Grace Slick.
mujerado
fur_hunter, if you really “don’t want to hear” that someone wasn’t born when JFK was shot, you’re discounting everyone under 55 years old. Is that what you really want?
crowebobby
No, I’m not referring to myself, since though I’ve always been attracted to hustlers, I have never wanted a “relationship” with one. (Avoiding a “relationship” and their unavailability for one with me has been their major attraction.) (My two serious affairs were with guys my own age.) But I’ve known dozens of men who have had decades long “relationships” with young men/boys they met as hustlers. Relationships with all the ups and downs, separations and reconciliations, the evolution of sexual interest and romance into pure friendship, and the boy/young man’s loss of the physical qualities that attracted the “daddy” in the first place. Some have continued into the young man’s marriage and fatherhood . . . with the full knowledge of the wife. Remember when married straight people were outraged by the idea that a gay relationship could be compared to a heterosexual one with its bond of children and financial trials and tribulations? Your attitude is the same thing . . . exactly!
fur_hunter
Note to mujerado. I am not saying my comments are for everyone. They are for me. Why? I am retired and I live out of the country. Anyone under 55 is still working and has at least 11 to 12 or more years before he could retire. By then, I would be in my late-80s or possibly dead. A relationship where my partner would have to commute would be ridiculous and extremely expensive. THAT is one reason I would want a partnership with someone a LOT closer to my age. Do you understand now?
fur_hunter
Note to Mack. OK, Mack…..You passed the test. GRIN! You answered ALL my questions correctly for consideration! Now, step up to the plate and tell me about yourself. I look forward to hearing from you. I’m on FaecBook. Big GRIN! That’s right. Fur Hunter, Lazaro Cardenas, Michoacan, Mexico
Coreydnyc
PHEW!! I’ve never said any of these, does that mean i’m not a daddy yet? my fingers are crossed I’m soooo not ready. IS 42 A DADDY!!??
ShowMeGuy
If the other guy is 19……..SURE. Daddy Up.
Tigertail57
Some guys are saying that anyone over 40 is a “Daddy”. Most often I hear this or read this coming from gay magazines or dating websites. I would say any gay guy over 52, 53 fits the profile. But what is actually true and meaningful is your attitude about it. If you can be generally optimistic and young at heart, that is going to be the thing that really makes the difference for a happier and fulfilled life. I will say it again…there a lot of guys, older and younger, that like older men. We are sexy!
Kevan1
I would hope most older men would have enough common sense not to do these things. Simple respect and tact is always best. I guess there are a few clueless gentlemen out there so….. maybe this will help some.
Mandrake
You’re correct, and any older gay guy who lacks this much common sense should stay home.
tjack47
I enjoy engaging with all ages of men. I’ve found some men in their 20’s to be more mature and wiser than men near my age. I’m not fond of this over 30 is old mentality, nor of an attitude of disdain for men who are different in ways that don’t meet gym bunny standards. I’m mid fifties, and the last guy I was with intimately was 23. It was merely casual, but he was quite intelligent and sensual. Those are two pluses for men of any age to me.
Heywood Jablowme
You left out #8. “How much do you want?” LOL.
Mandrake
LMAO!!!! Good one!
CastleSF
Heywood, is that a joke or a real life experience? If the latter, what was your response?
tomk1of1
I agree with most of this. I have friends from 20-80,approximately.
I do think it is very important that our youth understand that our courage and pionneering during the 70’s and yes even today makes us different. It was a different world like it always is for elders. But we are all one. They are here because it is simp,y how it works.
Some are grateful and understand,others never will or care to. Respectfully
Marvellis1
I agree, as a gay activist in San Francisco when I was younger, I find that my position has not changed. Get out there and do something for our community. You’re doing a great job just stay active, just do it.
Dashing Partycrasher
Marginally related to this…I was shocked by story on NPR today that said that 22% of millennials have never heard of The Holocaust, and a whopping two-thirds of millennials don’t know about the death camps! Clearly, there’s something wrong with school history classes, if such a sad and important story is not being told. No matter how old we are, we’re always more prone to repeating what we don’t know and learn from. And that means communication and listening between all generations should always be important.
Dashing Partycrasher
edit: * can learn from
ShowMeGuy
That stuff still gets taught in school but the real difference now is ……..it isn’t cool to demonstrate that you know anything. Intelligence has no value in the social market. Take another duckface selfie and talk about the new shoes you want to get…..you’ll go far.
Brian
This BS is exhausting.
The survey showed that Millennials were MORE likely than other generations to know facts about the Holocaust. Older people had less accuracy.
You also mixed up some of the details. People weren’t just asked about “The Holocaust.” They were being asked about specific facts about it. Leaders, places, statistics, etc.
You’re an example of the very thing you’re complaining about. You’re low on information, but proud anyway. This is the kind of thing that needs fixing – especially before our next election.
Dashing Partycrasher
Dmanhart, a bit presumptuous much? 😉
No…the author, David Toussaint is definitely not a twink. On the contrary, he’s what you might call a handsome “daddy” type–just click on his name and you’ll then see links to his Facebook and Twitter pages. And this article is a followup to his previous Queerty article, titled “7 things never to say to a daddy”. Again, click his name and you can see his previous articles.
eireapparent
It does harangue and chastise, which I’ve come to find is a favorite pastime for those under 30 these days. I can only assume that, having been nursed on Tumblr, Instagram, and Snapchat, they managed to cram far more experience into their dcant years that those twice their age or more, and must take on the burden of making sure everyone is aware of what to do and what not to do. Let us thank them for their service and experience.
Pax
@ david toussaint “Back in my day…”
“…and someone started a sentence with that clause…”
FYI Since you are a writer, you should know that this idiom is not a clause. A (dependent or independent) clause is a group of words that has both a subject and a predicate in addition to a verb. In grammar one could consider “back in my day” a phrase.
davio2
One big error – For those who saw friends die of AIDS on a weekly or monthly basis – that is a horror probably no other generation of gay people will ever have to see (lets hope). Plus, all of the discrimination and hatred that came with that. Sorry, but nothing compares to that today
lambchopp59
Amen to that, brother.
I still have so much issues of lost friends, so many of them that no one dare try to make me watch “Longtime Companion” ever again unless they are willing to pick up the pieces of me after.
Juanjo
It is something that affects everyone who went through it. How we handle it might be different but it is there always. I do not take it out on people younger although I have been known to go after them over issues like using condoms even though they are on Prep. It is an issue which can hit you in the oddest moments. I was talking to a couple of 20-something techies and they were asking about life in San Francisco back in the 70s. I was going on at length about all the crazy things I and my friends used to do back then. Then it hit me hard that all those people are dead. Out of that group, there are only myself and one other person still alive. Just snuck up and nailed me over the head.
Stevenw
Can we add an extra ruling for both Daddies and Twinks?
Namely, that anyone who writes the phrase ‘I can’t even’ as the end of a sentence should immediately be shot right in the face.
Tigertail57
Oh, stop it! He’s a good writer! I like him.
thegap81
I quite agree, most of his writing is unthought of and too specific for everyone to understand. NOT everyone lives wherever the hell he lives, or speaks his language. He’s just as bad as the things he says NOT to do as a daddy… badly written in my opinion…I can’t even…!
chris33133
Articles like this one would do well to draw a distinction between friendships and dating. Lots of the verboten comments seem targeted at dating-and-more; but some comments, such as “you guys have it easy,” seem like the start of a heated conversation between/among friends.
Back in my day, we called older guys who chased youngsters “chicken hawks;” hence not liking chicken seems like a poetic turn of the phrase. And now that I’ve become an old fart myself, I really don’t care what people say to me as long as it’s clever and original.
hotbear4110
I am a gwm 53 yrs. I would like to say a few things about this story. Ever since I was a young age I liked older men for a couple of reasons; If you are friends or dating or partnered with an older gay male they will not decieve you or lead you down the wrong path, they will try to help you better yourself. As they have been around long enough to either seen or have done things that they would help you not do or get into. And some of the younger generation are turning to older men cause they know that the older generation are more secure with themselves and are better lovers. Now, by this I mean the older generation are not willing to cheat on their partners. Now, there is only one problem I faced dating a younger gay male is that ,they feel like you will provide for them . for instance i had 1 young guy wanting me to pay for everything, they quit their job, and wanted to move in with me telling me that he didn’t have to work cause he wanted me to provide everything for him. Well, I stopped him in his tracks and told him that I don’t want to raise him. That I wanted someone who is willing to work with me to make a life together. So, if you find a younger gay male who is willing to make a life with you then go for it.
Griff_Greymuzzle
“If you are friends or dating or partnered with an older gay male they will not deceive you or lead you down the wrong path” WOAH woah woah. You cannot seriously believe this statement. There are just as many older gay men that would gladly take advantage of a younger man as there are in any other demographic. We’re not somehow immune to this. I am an older gay man who tends to date younger. I’m often shocked at some of the kids who will blindly turn over trust and faith to just about anyone over 30 who calls himself Daddy. Sure, most of the guys I meet are into specific fetishes/BDSM, but the blind faith these guys have is scary. And more than once I have had to come to the rescue when a younger man does get mixed up with an unscrupulous older man who is more of an abuser than a Daddy. So no, We’re not some Magical Unicorns who can do no wrong. We’re just as human as everyone else and the same precautions should be used.
saris
Griff that picture of the pup mask is great
TheLWord75
I woud pay top dollar to get cornered by the daddy on the left in my gym’s locker room. 😛
lambchopp59
Concur.
However, either that “daddy” is using lots of black hair color, or not nearly old enough to be considered within the “daddy” zone. LOL ?
Brian
I’ve met him! He’s a decent enough guy.
FRE0
It’s OK for an older man, which I am, to say something like, “In the olden days…..” if it is done with a sense of humor and does not include implying that things used to be better.
thegap81
I agree!
Eye of the Beholder
You’re beating yourself up too much. “Back in my day” is perfectly fine. I mean what else then? Downplaying ethnicity, religious affiliation and the like? It comes down to whether or not the person you’re dating or pursuing even respects you as a person. I don’t want you to feel a lack of acceptance in that way.
ricdardc1
Between knowing what “Gay Years” vs “Conventional Years” are and being Old enough to know when they quit the Metric system. I guess that makes me an Individual of a certain age. but I never got into that Daddy thing. Unless That makes Jeff Stryker one.
thegap81
Mmmm Jeff Stryker is in a category of his own! He was DEFINITELY not a twink (even though he was hairless), nor a muscle bear, cub or otter…I don’t know what to class him as! Do we even have to? 😉
Raymundo
What one needs to remember is there doesn’t just exist LGBT people in the US. I and many of my friends can’t really safely return to our countries through threat of death.
1898
slow news day?
scotshot
I’ve had friends and acquaintances who grew up in the 1930s to today. We’ve all had it rough in different – ways and also the same way. Every one has a tough time.
I’ve had friends whose Nanas had blue tattoos on their arm.
No one can state they’ve suffered more than anyone else.
thegap81
Blue tattoos…? ?
pscheck2
I’m not sure if I understand what this article is all about? Is he saying that in order to make out with a young blood, you must follow a certain path of introduction, for if you don’t, you will fail to make that connection? My POV is that this is a very individual thing, you win some and lose some! However if ‘gramps’ is only looking for young stuff, he may luck out and score, regardless of his approach. Young or old , we all have our likes and dislikes and to set a protocol, for each group, falls apart because each group have their likes and dislikes planted squarely in their psychic, and if he is only into the same age group, he will dismiss you right from the start.However if you get beyond that, then different compatibility factors come into play. I have a friend who lost his longtime lover several years ago and, instead of focusing on a more mature age group, he started fantasying on making it with young twinks and post twinks, losing out each time –that is, one clicked (early twenties!) and as of this date, their relationship is working! But lets be real: If you’re young, you are looking for the ‘prize’ and unless you are looking for a ‘sugar daddy’ you will stay the course, and concentrate on dudes; in your peer group. The daddys have to accept it and move on to an age group that has more common interests than those who are just getting their pubic hair. Just say’en. lol
MISTERJETT
i have always had a preference for someone older than me. now that i’m older, i still want someone older. is there something wrong with me?
thegap81
Of course not!
LukeHill1389
Mostly true and valid…..- Nothing to add But i am here not only to discuss this article but I AM LOOKING for NEW Soulmate. My whatsapp number is 17732425635 . Drop me a line nly if you are single and really miss for love and pleasure..
Aidanf
This is soooo ageist and divisive.
Older gays are not your problem.
Try to avoid the false melodrama and remain focused on who might truly be standing in your way, who is truly adversarial, and who does not have your best interests at heart.
Believe me, it is not older gay men.
dean089
Thank you!
Wolfie
Never mind the 1276 that should not be said to Mature Gays.
artguy1000
F*ck this shit – what about an article called “7 things whiny Millennials should never say to 50-60-70-somethings”?!
thegap81
They’re whiny Millennials, they already know what not to say!
John
Queerty, stop reposting the same shit over and over again. It’s annoying. Are you guys really that hard up for new articles?
Darson
How about “Move along fetus, my teaching days are over. Let someone else teach you how to f*ck”.
BigFloridaBear
Anyone spitting crap like this out is not a Daddy but an older uninformed self entitled idiot. Also keep in mind “Daddy” has nothing to do with age. Daddies are mature (not necessarily in age), nurturing, and teachers.
thegap81
I agree…I’m 38, my actual Dad had 3 kids already at my age and was a daddy from 21… so, age is just a number! Daddy is a concept and a way of life, not a right just cos you’re old(er)! Imo as a daddy!