the fallen

8 Years Later, How Do You Remember 9/11?


Nearly 3,000 people died in lower Manhattan eight years ago today. Since, we’ve seen terror alerts go up and down the rainbow, two not-so-winnable wars launched and lives lost, a new president promising hope and change, and above all else, proof the American people are a resilient bunch. As each 9/11 anniversary passes, we grow a little bit farther apart from that terrible day. It will never disappear from our consciousness, nor should it. But once upon a time not so long ago, this nation was preoccupied with terror and fear; today it’s jobs and the economy.

It got us to thinking: What does today’s Sept. 11, here in 2009, represent to you? Is there something different about it versus last year’s anniversary? Or 2002’s? When we hit the 10-year or, down the line, the 50-year mark, will we continue reading the names of those we lost? Will children take a moment of silence in schools?

In just a few short hours, Sept. 11 became a moment every American — and, perhaps, every human — alive would forever have etched into their memory. And it’s a day we lost many gay brothers and sisters.

It’s a day we lost Mark Bingham, who tried intervening on Flight 93. It’s a day we lost Carol Flyzik, who died on Flight 11, the first plane to crash into the World Trader Center. It’s a day we lost Pamela J. Boyce, who died while working on the 92nd floor of One World Trade Center. It’s a day we lost Ronald Gamboa and his partner of 13 years Dan Brandhorst, who formed a Los Angeles organization for gay parents looking to adopt, and who died with their son on Flight 175. It’s the day we lost Wesley Mercer, a Morgan Stanley security chief, who ran up from the ground level to the 44th floor to help evacuate survivors, and never made it down. And the list goes on and on. These were our family, our friends, and the innocent victims inside a terrible stain on human history. (They were also the victims of the Defense of Marriage Act, which gave authorities the right to refuse their partners any information on their deaths. It also kept their partners from receiving death benefits, which the heterosexual spouses of 9/11 victims were eligible for, until New York State made an exception.)

Eight years out, 9/11 is still a vivid, raw memory.

What does this eighth anniversary mean to you?

(And please, don’t desecrate this post with debates about going to war or religious extremists. Just share your thoughts, your memories, and your stories. Really.)

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  • MoHoTo

    Four things, clear as bells:

    The phone ringing and my mother leaving a message, saying “Turn on the TV. We’re under attack!”

    Going to work, and standing in silence around a TV as the towers fell. Words were useless at that moment. We all just stood together, and couldn’t look at each other.

    Going out later in the day to get some relief from the stress of it all, and marveling how lively and inviting a city walk can be, even on the worst days.

    Finding out later that two people we knew, and their baby, had been on one of the flights.

  • Brian

    Religion piloted those planes. The Muslim brand of religion.

    It proves that “Faith” kills.

    [Ed: Goodbye.]

  • Rick

    Science flies people to the moon.

    Religion flies people into buildings.

    [Ed: Goodbye.]

  • Angel Ventura

    I was leaving work. In the lobby I saw the Janitors watching TV, “America under Attack”!
    It felt to me like the end of the worldf.
    Curse the slaves of the satanic faith of hate!
    I will necer forgive nor forget. Hope alqaeda will be eradicated, his fiendish leaders hanged .
    I hate them for making me hate!
    We humans only want some love Why harte?

  • Jonathan

    My 6th grade Spanish teacher assuring us it must be a joke. My classmates believing him.

  • AlanInSLC

    I just remember the stunned feeling that was EVERYWHERE you went. I was working as a server at Red Robin and had to be the opener that day. I heard through the morning news just as it was all happening. When I left for work only 1 tower was hit at that time. By the time I got to work the 2nd tower was hit. Being a server, you try to make people enjoy their experience. Making people smile was nearly impossible, let alone trying to get them to enjoy themselves or laugh at my lame attempts. It was humbling to hear people talk throughout the restaurant about knowing people who work there or were visiting on business, some family, some friends. Regardless it was apparent quite early that this was going to be a major shift in things to come for all Americans and the world. I still have a hard time trying to understand how those people who knew someone caught in the middle of this horrible situation, how they deal with the shock it must have been for them. My heart goes out to all involved. Lets hope nothing like this ever happens again.

  • I pliss

    I worked on 102 floor of the WTC. I was late for work that day. I lost my entire department of 22 people. Except my boss who was away hence why I was going in late to work! I know longer work for Cantor but lost alot of people.

  • InExile

    I was on a road trip from Albuquerque to Los Angeles and stopped at a hotel on the river in Bullhead City Nevada for the night. Early in the morning my mother called and told me to turn on the TV. I was very worried about my friend who lives across the street from where the World Trade Center as well as being horrified by what I saw on TV. She had caught the subway at the World Trade Center about a half hour prior to the first plane hitting. She was not allowed to go back to check her apartment for over a week.

  • dsdrane

    I was walking west up Fulton Street after voting in the primary when the first plane hit. I only heard the crash first because the view of the towers was obscured until I went a few steps farther. I — and everyone else near me — just stood in disbelief. That gaping orange-red hole, spewing smoke was only comprehensible a few seconds later because my first job in the City had been up there. That’s when the first wave of horror hit me. Then I noticed the million little white flecks, like glittering confetti, flying around. It was office paper. It and the smoke were headed straight over my apartment 4 blocks east on John Street, and I immediately remembered my dog was there with the window open. I had left it open a crack that day because the weather was so pristine.

  • ajax

    There are several moments that are absolutely frozen in time for me. (1) Stopping still in my tracks mid-way across Seventh Avenue, holding my cell phone to my ear, while my partner pleaded with me to turn around and not go into the office. The second tower had just been hit. (2) Sitting on the sofa in our living room looking at the Empire State Building standing against an impossibly crystiline sky as our television showed the blazes downtown. (3) Standing on the corner of Eighth Avenue and Twenty-third Street and seeing black, greasy smears of smoke where the towers once stood. (4) The wordless, dusty zombies walking up Eighth Avenue.

    And, in the following days, the photos and flyers of the missing, that COVERED everything. The profound and disorienting sense of loss. And the sobs. The sobs that visited me hourly, then daily, now occasionally.

    As awful as it all was, it was far less terrifying and disorienting than life in NYC at the height of the “gay cancer”. THAT was terror.

  • Andrew

    @Brian: Why would Queerty {edit] those comments? Didn’t “religion” fly those planes into the buildings? Well, and those 19 virgins.

  • M.albert

    Before 9/11 the future seemed bright (to my then teenage eyes), but in the last eight years it has been a nightmare to comprehend the world outside my own creation. I just don’t feel optimistic about the future turning out anything but worse.

    In a way it can be seen as the moment when the country seriously looked at all problems external and internal, and decided, for better or worse, that something had to be done, but all we’ve done is talk talk talk. We’re facing a lot these days, but I don’t think we have the power to move being analyzation. Maybe we’re not wise enough for real action. Maybe our collective intelligence isnt evolved, I dont know…

  • M.albert

    *move beyond analyzation

  • Chitown Kev

    I was at work when the secon plane hit the WTC. There were already threats to the Seares Tower and I could see the hancock Building out of my cubicle window.

    They evacuated downtown Chicago and Lake Shore Dr. was absolutely packed with drivers; but the radio stations kept playing their music.

  • Brian

    Just curious? Is this Queerty Editorial directive:

    “(And please, don’t desecrate this post with debates about going to war or religious extremists. Just share your thoughts, your memories, and your stories. Really.)”

    primarily because it’s Muslims and not Jews or Christians?

  • strumpetwindsock


    No, it’s about not shitting all over someone’s memorial with your propaganda.

    Grab a fucking brain.

  • Chuck

    9/11 was the day that our government allowed 3,000 citizens to be murdered by turning a blind eye to the events leading up to that day, then carried off and destroyed all of the evidence so that no one could be legally charged, and then used that event as the motivation to carry out the plans initiated in the 1998 “Policy for a New Century” letter to President Bill CLinton, who refused to act on their suggestions. Signatories to that letter just happened to be Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Chaney, Donald Rumsfeld, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby and Gary Bauer, among others. Sound familiar? And with their puppet president George W. Bush in office, the timing was perfect. And the majority of American citizens today still believe in the lies that there was a tie between the attack and Iraq!

  • Angel Ventura

    Well, you got to have feelings of hurt, outrage and desire of justice being meted out on the perpetrators of such a thing. This is part of the experience, too.

  • strumpetwindsock

    My memory of it was quite surreal, actually. We watched the first Matrix movie the night before, so we saw helicopters crashing into buildings before going to sleep, then were woken up with the horrible reality.

    I remember a couple of things – that in the spring I was wondering why no one was stepping into Afghanistan to right some of the injustices that were taking place there.

    I also remember holding the hope that your president would respond in an intelligent way, since as unjust as these terrorist acts were, there were political grievances behind them.

    Sorry to say, I was disappointed.

    Also, I was stranded and had to take a bus because of the halt to air traffic. Plus, a great many planes and passengers were stranded here in Canada because there was no flying into the states. All the atlantic and pacific overseas traffic on 9/11 had to land here. That pretty much dominated news here for days afterwards.

  • strumpetwindsock

    @Angel Ventura:

    The question is, who were those perpetrators?

    Do you think no muslims, jews or christians died in that attack?

    Not to open a debate, but let’s not make assumptions about who these villains represented.

    I would venture to say their real motivation was more political and nationalist than religious, but that is hardly the point here.

  • Angel Ventura

    ALL kinds of people died in those attacks.
    The motive of the perpetrators? The basest possibler. Hate . Intolerrance. Greed, of money and power. Osama SPECULATED on bonds values after the attack. They were enemies of Umankind. And THEY WERE FUNDAMENTALISTS. Muslims. That’s the truth.
    The heinous crime against humanity perpetrated at New York in 9/11/2001 is a shame to the God and the religion in which name it has been committed for centuries,
    In memory of the victims, to the everlasting condemnation of religious hatred and fundamentalism. And not only New York was sorely wounded! There has been London, Bali, Sharm-el Sheikh, Madrid, Philippines, Mumbai, were hate-crazed goons killed scores of innocents! Two wars were waged in consequence of 9/11, in Afghanistan against the Taliban accomplices of the greedy mass murderers of Al Qaeda, and one, absolutely unnecessary, in Iraq, the worst error of Dubyah Bush. All for fiendish, heinous hate. Why marvel that the reputation of a certain religion sank so low? With what the hasngings and stoning of innocent women in moslem countries, the persecution of homosexuals and dissidents, they worry about some comic strips and vignettes! But that’s the least of their image problems!
    I’m sure there are many muslim people who don’t approve of Al Qaeda and Ahmadinejad and all those things I mentioned. So, Say it! Ayyan Hirsi Ali did.
    And not only moslems,many of them victims of the alqaedan fiends. The whole world was filled with fear and hate in consequence of AlQaeda’s crime against humanity! We don’t forgive, we don’t forget, lest someone repeat those things We hope to build a world made up of love, tolerance and respect of the Rights of the Individual. Let’s hope it’s so!

    [Ed: Goodbye.]

  • M Shane

    It doesn’t mean a damned thing except that the American public was duped into letting a dictator start a totally unjustified unilateral war against a helpless and and completely innocent people for thew economic benefit ofwar Profiteers. The U.s. murdereded and tortured thousands of people so that bastars like rumsfeld and Cheney could make millions of dollars.
    The only thing the U.S will get is that ‘the chickens will come homje to roost here. If any one did to my country, my family, friends etc what the U.s. did I would live to see that they paid.
    As far as I’m concerned Bush and co. caused 9/11. There is no proof otherwise. and they and their friends got hundreds of billions of tax dollars. At least to salvage some of our respect in the world we should at least jail Bush, Cheny etc for the rest of their lives, if not allow the death penalty. The U.S, will pay, I’m sure of that and in spades.

    It is by far the worst episode ever in this countries History.

    [Ed: Goodbye.]

  • Nate

    Watching the news for hours, sitting on the couch holding my boyfriend’s hand, face frozen while tears rolled down my cheeks.

  • strumpetwindsock

    @Angel Ventura:

    I hear you, except for the “never forgive” part.

    Not to justify this horrible atrocity, but there are more than enough grievances on all sides of this, and so long as we are just keeping score and holding grudges we will never find resolution.

    Those of us in the west are not without blame either.

  • Brian

    @strumpetwindsock: “I would venture to say their real motivation was more political and nationalist than religious, but that is hardly the point here.”

    Yeah, because it was the government that promised them a couple dozen horny virgins and time with Allah? and Jihad is a government program?

    [Ed: Goodbye]

  • Brian

    @Angel Ventura: Somewhat well said Angel. You make the most important point about that day – why it happened and who did it.

  • dsdrane

    Brian, oh Brian.

    I can only assume you haven’t been banned from this site because of the sheer entertainment value of your ravings. Of course, I don’t find the machinations of your “mind” entertaining at all, but I suppose some do.

    Different strokes for different folks, eh?

    But regarding 9/11, would it be impolitic to ask you where you were, or if it affected you directly at all? Personally, I think it’s fun to imagine you in some secluded cabin in the Idaho woods, where you — and your cats — cooked up elaborate schemes about how the world was out to get you.

    Be that as it may, you fail to understand that your dada-esque excretions here are, well, really beyond the rabbit-proof fence. You’ll disagree no doubt, but no matter. I feel quite certain that I speak for many when I say Christ himself — or, in more of a secular vein, Gandhi himself — would feel perfectly justified in punching you right in the mouth.

  • Chance

    @dsdrane: “Personally, I think it’s fun to imagine you in some secluded cabin in the Idaho woods, where you — and your cats — cooked up elaborate schemes about how the world was out to get you.”

    Great. Thank you. That’s an incredibly helpful contribution. It really helps me get past the deaths of my two dear friends those 8 years ago.

    You know how I spent September 11, 2001? Sitting in shock, staring at the television, head in my hands. Asking myself, for hours on end, “Why?”

    We can all share stories, and bitch about whether it’s too taboo to talk about religion or not. Personally, I think it’s much more appropriate, in their memories, and the memories of 3000 others, to honestly figure out why someone would want to do something so devastating in the first place. Because that thought has been with me every day since the tragedy.

    And you know what the answer always, unceasingly is? It’s because these 19 men, who were otherwise educated and competent people, were raised with the idea that Islam is the only truth, the only way. They were raised with the belief that martyrdom in the name of Allah is noble. They were raised with the promise of eternal bliss with their families and 72 virgins. In their mosques, they were raised with the belief that the mass slaughter of infidels was heroic.

    And 8 years have done nothing to convince me that we shouldn’t talk about the religious motives for this hideous milestone. I don’t think about my friends and think, “Well gee, those terrorists were just extremists.” I try to think of ways to make sure that this never happens again, no matter which religious beliefs are behind the crime.

    So, DSDRANE, maybe instead of mindless jokes, we can have a real, adult conversation. One that is respectful of those who died. And one that doesn’t try to erase the very cause of their deaths.

  • dsdrane


    I’m sorry for your loss. Truly.

    My apartment (if you read earlier comments) was 4 blocks east. I was in my apartment when each tower came down. My life was ever-changed by it.

    But, whatever upset I experienced, is nothing compared to what you suffered.

  • dsdrane


    Chance, you wrote the following: “So, DSDRANE, maybe instead of mindless jokes, we can have a real, adult conversation. One that is respectful of those who died. And one that doesn’t try to erase the very cause of their deaths.”

    To that, I would like to say this: my “jokes” have not been “mindless”. They were made — if you read all the comments — to mindless comments by others.

    I find it interesting that you would focus on my comments and not those of others. Why is that, Chance?

    What do you feel is the “cause of their deaths”?

  • Chance

    @dsdrane: What do I think caused their deaths? See comment number 28.

  • dsdrane


    Ah, I see.

    Sorry for your loss, Chance.

  • dsdrane


    Oh, and Chance…

    If you really have issues and concerns about today, you might want to think about voicing them somewhere else other than

    Just sayin’.

  • RainaWeather

    I was sitting in band class and all of a sudden the tv comes on. There’s one burning building then the next plane hits live on tv and everyone has a “WTF?!” look on their faces.

  • adamblast

    In past years I was more inclined to think in terms of personal memories, to recall where I was and how I felt at the time. That seems to be leaving me gradually.

    Now when I look back on that horrible event I see it as the wound that caused a ghastly reflexive response in American politics and the character of government.

    While it feels rather unsafe discussing politic at all in this section given the many “goodbyes”, I can’t help but view 9/11 in retrospect as the catalyst that established presidential imperialism and a callous disregard for ao many constitutional freedoms.

    For a time after the election I was hoping things would shift back in favor of a more benign Washington, but I no longer believe that to be the case in most key ways. As years pass I increasingly remember 9/11 as the moment after which our Bill of Rights lost its teeth.

  • Heidee

    I was in 10th grade at the time…I remember walking in to 2nd hour (Biology) and thinking it was strange that the television was on (we had TVs in every classroom). Once I sat down and watched the TV, I realized why it was on, but I didn’t really understand what was going on at first. We watched for about the first 15 minutes of Biology, and as soon as I realized what was really happening, I was mortified. Then my teacher finally turned it off because he didn’t want to see anymore just then. I remember for the rest of the day, most of the teachers in school didn’t even attempt to continue with lesson plans or anything of the sort…most of them kept their TVs on throughout the day (we watched it during lunch, too), some let us have chill time in class and played relaxing music, and some others played whole-class games to help us get our minds off of everything that was going on. It wasn’t that they wanted us to think it was a time for fun and partying, it was that we were still just kids and it was all so overwhelming and hard to understand at the time.

  • Dave Kaye

    I was at home on a day off when the duty officer called and asked me to turn on the tv….a plane had just crashed into the WTC. I turned on the tv just as the second plane (Flt 275) struck the second tower. I grabbed my “go” bag, got in my vehicle and headed towards NYC. Stopping at the State Police Barracks to ascertain the current conditions I witnessed the collapse of the towers. I knew my next assignment would be NYC.
    I have had 35 years experience in Emergency Services and nothing caused my heart to skip a beat until I read on the portable sign boards “All roads to NYC are closed…you must exit”
    Little did I know that my friend Dan Brandhorst, his partner and child were on that flight.
    I spent from Sept to Dec at the Command Center on Pier 90. The World Trade Center was my last assignment. I retired on 12/29/01.
    Politics, religion,etc. take a far back seat to the personal losses suffered by the Emergency Service workers, firefighters, police officers, emt’s, paramedics, and thousands of innocent civilians who lost their lives that day….and the thousands more who will suffer serious if not fatal health problems as a result of their involvement. It was truly the day that changed America forever.

  • KyleR

    I was getting ready for school, I was a Sophomore in high school back then. Here in Texas, I didn’t watch the day from the first attack, but the second. I watched with many as the second plane flew in. I remember thinking that this was no accident no more. And immediately felt guilty about the jokes I said to my mom just moments ago about the first plane in the tower. Saying what type of pilot couldn’t miss that giant building. And the rest of the day was different. Except in Literature, our teacher tried to make us learn, but no one was paying attention.

    And about 9/11, it was a tragedy. But we can’t always remember these wounds. These yearly memorials, reading of the names by family members. It doesn’t allow them to heal. It doesn’t allow this nation. The world. To heal from the events of that tragic day. I know, eventually this day will be like any other major tragedy. Pearl Harbor, Oklahoma City Bombing. Our embassy bombings in Africa. All as equally tragic with memorial ceremonies. But not ones that ripe open the wounds, preventing them from healing. Well, that’s what I think about this anyways.

  • Jay Pat

    I was a freshmen in high school then. Our teacher ran into to our high school yelling “Hindus have bombed the twin towers!” And of course everyone turns around and looks at me.

    Our high school didn’t allow us to watch the news at all the whole day, so I wasn’t able to get the whole story until I got home. It truly was a tragic event, but it seems the fall out from this has been just as tragic. It seems we haven’t really learned anything from all of this.

  • cruiser

    I can remeber I had just gotten up and was getting ready for work when my friend & roomate called to me and said we were being attacked, I walked into the front room(the television was already on)and watched in horror as the 2nd plane hit the 2nd tower, then we watched in unbelieveable horror as the 2nd tower started to pancake, then the 1st tower fell, the entire day at work the whole mood was somber some of my co-workers even had radios on(I used to work in a call center so radios were usually not allowed)several of my coworkers had friends who worked in one or the other of the two towers and the entire day the whole atmosphere was one of people “walking on eggshells” as we were all just too horrified to comprehend what had happened. Even to this day(8 yrs after the fact)it is still difficult at best to conceive that someone would have such intense hatred for their fellow humankind that they would feel it necessary to perpetrate such a horrific act. To all who lost family, friends, co-workers on that terrible day, time will eventually numb the pain(it will nevber “go away”)and as time goes on evreyone will be able to begin to move forward and heal from that incomprehensible and tortuous pain. Even as we approach the 10 year marker for this tragedy we should NEVER forget who & what was lost.
    We had an inept government who was too pre-occupied to see the signs(they were there) we can only pray that a day like Sept 11 2001 can never happen again.

  • Russ

    I work in a downtown Toronto high-rise, and I remember that all of a sudden (and I mean in an instant) the entire floor of several hundred people went completely silent. It was so strange, like everyone found out what was happening at the same time. I remember people just sitting at their desks, not doing anything, but just sitting. And I remember saying to myself, are the Americans going to hit back whoever did this (and I felt that they should, not knowing at that point who had) and wondering if the next piece of news would be Israel at war with it’s surrounding countries. When I saw it on TV, I felt sick to my stomach, and to this day can’t watch the footage of the towers going down. I will always remember that day.

  • epluribusunumjk

    I was a sophomore in high school back then.

    Some of the teachers in my school were concerned about informing the students about the goings-on of the day, so for a while, we didn’t really know much of anything…until a couple of teachers decided that it was time to tell us what was really going on. I missed the first hit, but saw the second hit on cable tv in my Brit lit. classroom. We later heard that one of our teacher’s kids worked in the north tower, so we prayed together (relax, it was a catholic high school).

    It was a pretty surreal experience; I just remember coming home and both of my parents had been dismissed from work for the day and were pretty depressed.

    All in all, a pretty disturbing day, and I still get a little teary-eyed when I think about watching those towers fall and those poor souls throwing themselves from the towers in futile attempts to escape. In the end though, I was able to grasp the fragility of humanity however, and two weeks later, came out of the closet to my classmates and parents.


    On 9/11/2001 I could not marry my beloved partner. I could not openly serve in the military to protect this country nor help make it a better union. I could not openly walk down the street holding hands with him without the threat of physical harm. I observe 9/11/2009 with solemnity as thousands died; I doubt seriously though the vast majority of the victims families observe days honoring the sacrifice of our gay brothers/sisters; and YES i know there were gay victims too, need we discuss the ease in which they received financial settlements, oh that’s right, most didn’t!

  • Michael C.

    I was in the 7th grade, school had just started…I saw smoke rise from the first tower…i thought it was something from a movie…we were across the way from manhattan, our school overlooks many of the other buildings in the area, not even 5 minutes by airplane…we could see the whole thing unfold…there was a lot of smoke and all of a sudden there was more smoke, the towers were getting hit on the other side of the buildings, opposite our view…all we saw was smoke lifting off of the towers…we were told to focus on the lesson at hand…so we did…the bell rang and we were off to english…it was on the fourth floor, and we still had a pretty good view of the towers…suddenly I saw the towers begin to collapse, i alerted my teacher…and we stood there in silence…and almost immediately people were taking their kids out of school. It was a lonely day for me, i was one of the few that remained in school…and i walked home…the sun was a lot brighter, the birds were a little chirpier…but on my way home there was a clear view of the towers…a direct view of nothing was there… the debris and smoke was still rising, brown, and dirty…and that is all i remember of that day.

    Television was limited that day, there was only one channel and it was playing on a loop, or at least it seemed like it…school might have been canceled…but tw days later we were back at it…and every day, looking out of that window on the 5th floor we could see the brown aura, from tons of debris still lingering in the air.

  • Keith H.

    what does 9/11 mean to me? my nephew’s birthday. I refuse to let that be overshadowed by a senseless tragedy.

  • Joanaroo

    I was home that day and my sister called me asking if I knew the World Trade Center was hit by a plane. I turned on CNN and saw the second plane go in. Then shortly after the other plane hit the Pentagon, the towers collapsed and the plane crashed in Western PA. I thought what is going on today? What happens now? It was so surreal. I sat in front of the TV all day. My sister was allowed to leave work early as the company closed early and we watched coverage into the night.

  • bobby

    i am still suffering as a victim of 9/11
    it has only led to me being deported to pakistan
    after living in Philly for 21 years,
    with family still in USA

    whats the point of this separation?
    why did they do that, blame others
    was it really a group a international bankers?
    was this about money thru the war business?

    why do i have to be hurt this way?

    its been going on 7 years. i just wish that day never happend
    i can still be having a nice time in Philly.

    is there really a mind control war is there really a new world order

    i want to go home…

    what is the truth? and why am i still suffering for that day?

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