BUH BYE

A Woman Threw A Fit At Planet Fitness Over A Trans Guest. Here’s The Gym’s A+ Response.

Screen Shot 2015-03-10 at 9.43.26 AMA Planet Fitness member made a scene after witnessing a transgender woman in the female locker room, and the gym chain responded in the best way possible — they canceled her membership.

The word “transgender” may be gaining traction across America — and by all means, that’s a good thing — but individual attitudes and prejudices naturally lag far behind.

That being said, we give Planet Fitness two thumbs up for how they chose to handle member Yvette Cormier’s complaints at their Midland, Michigan location.

Yvette was upset that she saw a trans woman in the locker room, and complained to gym staff. The employee respectfully informed her that it’s gym policy to allow members and guests to use whichever locker room corresponds with their gender identity. That didn’t go over too well.

In retaliation, Yvette decided to tell “everyone in the locker room what happened.”

The choice was simple for the gym — buh bye, Yvette. Membership canceled.

In a statement to HuffPost, Planet Fitness clarified the reason for the revoked membership:

Planet Fitness is committed to creating a non-intimidating, welcoming environment for our members. Our gender identity non-discrimination policy states that members and guests may use all gym facilities based on their sincere self-reported gender identity. The membership of the member in question was not cancelled as a result of complaints about the policy, as we welcome all feedback from our members. Rather, the manner in which she expressed her concerns about the policy exhibited behavior that club management deemed inappropriate and disruptive to other members, which is a violation of the membership agreement and as a result her membership was cancelled.

Carlotta Sklodowska believes it was her presence in the facility that sparked the disagreement. She told Michigan Live that she isn’t even a member of the gym, but came as the guest of a friend. She says she was in the locker room twice, wearing leggings and a baggy T-shirt, and did not witness anyone bothered by her presence.

It isn’t hard to predict the fear-based rhetoric coming from the right on this one.

The Family Research Council said in a blog post that Planet Fitness is “no longer part of the rational universe,” suggesting people choose gyms where “the atmosphere will be more conducive to moral sanity.” Which, if you know anything about the hate-fueled group, is pretty rich.

Michigan State Rep. Gary Glenn (R-Larkin Township) called Planet Fitness’ stance an “in-your-face policy” and said it threatens women’s safety. Because the Republican party has always been about women’s safety first. Just like that time congressional Republicans let the Violence Against Women Act expire.

Yvette is sticking by her position in the media, which from our point of view, looks a lot like someone seeing how much of their foot they can physically get inside their mouth.

“They said, ‘You are talking to people about him in the women’s locker room. You are making people upset.’ That’s my whole point,” she told ABC News. “I’m telling them and warning them because you are not doing that. You allow men in there, and we are appalled by it.”

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116 Comments

  • Bob LaBlah

    This takes me back to Bally’s, 1992, Washington, DC. A very rough looking black lesbian tired of being harassed or stared at by the women in the locker room so she marched into the mens room and changed there. NO ONE ASKED HER TO LEAVE NOR REPORTED HER. Yes, that’s just how rough she looked. I really felt sorry for those women because she bothered me as well.

  • werk

    The fact this is in my city is shocking. Albeit, this is a very conservative city, most people just mind their own business. Need I mention, this city has a very high LGBT population. Then again, It is also known as the Midland Bubble. We are a sheltered group of people with many cultures beyond the US because of Dow Chemical.

  • Xzamilio

    Bye, Felicia.

  • Ladbrook

    I am way too ignorant of contemporary trans-related issues to comment fairly on this one. I do, however, have questions that the article doesn’t address. Perhaps one of the other posters here can help with some answers. Again, I’m admitting my ignorance… just asking questions:

    1) At what point in a trans-person’s transition does that individual begin using public facilities marked for certain genders (ie: bathrooms, fitting rooms, locker rooms, etc…)?

    2) Do trans individuals use these facilities before attempting any physical alterations to their bodies (ie: surgeries/hormone therapies, etc) or do they wait until they have reached a certain point in the process before doing so? If so, at what point?

    3) And finally, what is the official position from the trans community on when it is acceptable for a trans person to use public facilities designated for the gender with which they identify?

    I guess it comes down to a curiosity about the actual surgical procedures(especially with respect to MtF transgendered). In other words, is it acceptable for, say, Bruce Jenner to enter the women’s locker room to change and shower once he privately or publically identifies as trans/female, or does he wait until he has completed the surgical process? (Assuming Jenner really is transgendered as reports claim).

    Ok… hit me with some knowledge on this issue.

  • batwench

    If I was to join a gym, and this company was available in the UK, then this policy and their decision in this matter would put them at the top of the list.

  • jwtraveler

    @Bob LaBlah: If the “very rough looking black lesbian” was minding her own business, then everyone else should have done the same. Their bigotry and yours are unacceptable.

  • CoachS

    I belong to a fancy gym with a pool and restaurant. Always kinda hated Planet Fitness (many of my players go there). May be worth joining now – it’s not too expensive and probably worth supporting them with my wallet.

  • Bauhaus

    @Bob LaBlah:

    The L St. Gym? Did she bother you because her presence interrupted you getting your groove on in that nasty sauna?

  • Bob LaBlah

    @jwtraveler: Let me get your comment strait: an extremely HARD looking woman comes into the mens locker room to undress and shower. And NO ONE is suppose to look at least ONCE in her direction? And when they do her first reaction is either “what the fuck are you looking at” or, in a very threatening voice “is everything ok” and you can’t understand why that is upsetting to those of us who only came to a gym to work out and not engage in mortal combat with this……….person? Doesn’t SOMETHING sound wrong with that picture?

    I know they are NOT all flirting but in a locker room it is NOT unusual for a man to glance at another man, regardless of whether he is dressed or not. Hell, even my old pancaked ass get a look every now and then. Just a glancing look but a look at least. It’s only natural. At least for those of us who were raised in civilization. A woman is a woman, sexual orientation be damned. This girl had NO business in a male locker room, harassment be damned. When the smoked cleared the thought did occur to many of us that SHE was harassing US with her attitude.

    After several of the black guys threatened to kick her “m/f’n ass” a couple of times she disappeared, thank god. That girl seriously bothered just about everyone in that gym. She never smiled about NOTHING and always had a dismissive attitude about equipment and sharing things with others. In other words, she was what Don Imus called a nappy headed……..well, I’m sure you remember. Maybe you could be happy around her while she thought he attitude had won her a victory. I would not be surprised if she is NO LONGER with us, based on her attitude. I mean prison was written EVERYWHERE on her face. Girl was ruff. I bet she could eat a mean…………..Maybe you knew her?

  • DawnTrans

    @Ladbrook: Legally in many states you can enter restroom/locker rooms after you have your letter from your gender Psychologist. In NYC you only have to self identify.
    But its up to the individual and when they feel comfortable going into the restroom. Some do right away some it takes years. There are not many legal protections for trans persons so its always best to check with your local laws.

  • Bauhaus

    @nossmhiv:

    Troll.

    Sex transmits HIV. Should we ban sex?

  • Tommysole

    The last time I belonged to a gym, in New Jersey, there was a gal that worked the front desk and led the aerobics class.
    She always used the ladies locker room, showered there, and did what they do in that room. Someone started yelling at the owner of the place one day, “It has a penis and why the fuck is it in the girls locker room with boobs and a penis!?”

    The owner calmly replied, “Oh I am sorry you were put out by my employee that is transitioning right now, her penis is going to be removed as soon as she can afford the surgery, is there a problem?”

    She threw the lady and refunded her membership dues and the girl at the front desk still works there.

  • frickeepoo

    @Bob LaBlah: And you are what that kick-ass black woman would call a shit-for-brains cracker.

  • Jacob23

    So you annoy 50-60% of your customer base in order to suck up to transgenders? How many transgenders are members of Planet Fitness? 1 in 10,000? This particular “transwoman” in Michigan wasn’t even a member, but was using a guest pass.

    I guess PF can do what it wants. But it seems really dumb. Also, this entire issue, as interesting as it is, has nothing to do with LGB people. We should be worrying about gay people being stoned to death in Jamaica and thrown from buildings in Iraq and Syria. The locker room habits of heterosexual transsexuals and crossdressers is not our concern.

    • frickeepoo

      @Giancarlo85: The unfortunate reality, Giancarlo85, is that even though transgender individuals have been at the front of all of our community’s battles, they have never been respected as valuable contributing members. Once upon a time the self-loathing majority of gay men looked at them and said “They give us all a bad name.” Even I’ve been guilty of it, and I’m about as two-spirit as they come. Those days are no longer, thank God. Considering how long it took to gain our own community’s acceptance, let’s just hope things move more quickly w/ the mainstream.

    • frickeepoo

      @Bauhaus: Yeah, and in sub-Saharan African countries, the majority of HIV seroconversions was a result of heterosexual contact. I can only imagine what that person would have replied to that.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Jacob23: Oh you’re such a genius aren’t you? Trans people are getting attacked and killed to in other countries. I just don’t get the hypocrisy on here. LGBT, not LGB. Trans people have been part of the LGBT community and have been involved in activism all the way from the Stonewall uprisings. Learn your damn history please.

  • Giancarlo85

    @frickeepoo: I think the point about the vast majority of HIV infections being a result of heterosexual contact actually applies to the entire globe overall.

    • frickeepoo

      @Bob LaBlah: I’m probably about the same age as you, Bob, so I understand what you’re experiencing when you say that you don’t identify w/ all of the current changes that people call ‘progress.’ But even though I have reservations about gay marriage. (The very idea that mainstream suddenly recognizing gay love as equal to straight love makes me want to hurl. But that’s only because I spent so many years not only surviving w/o mainstream validation, but I was a better for not needing it! Being gay was not only just as good, but better. In a nutshell, my struggles made me a stronger, better gay. Having said all that, I support marriage equality two thousand percent. Because I can see outside the box – my box, I guess – where I learned to live w/out much of what queer people have now. But I wouldn’t begrudge them that. If young people want to get married, more power to them. My partner and I have been together 24 years, and even though neither of us want anything to do w/ getting married, it sure is good to know that we could get married if I needed better medical insurance!

  • Giancarlo85

    @frickeepoo: You can’t help Bob. He’s a very mean spirited person who loves to stereotype just about everybody. At one point he was telling me I should do porn because he sees some latino guys doing it.

  • Bob LaBlah

    @Jacob23: It is because of these transgendered/same-sex marriage people that fitness clubs everywhere are going to have to consider a third gender changing area. I tell you, this is an outright mess. Personally, I would not want to change in front of any of the transgendered folks because I don’t want to see an area that no longer has/something has been added down there. I have been out of the closet for well over forty years and have seen changes in their infancy but this is something I am going to find difficult to side with the community on, as I did gay marriage.

  • Bob LaBlah

    @Giancarlo85: Still unemployed, huh? Well, I’ll bet “they” aren’t and, while your sitting/standing on that crowded Santa Monica Blvd bus with your smart phone they have new cars with full tanks of gas.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Bob LaBlah: Could you get another more ignorant? A lot of transgendered people do NOT have or GET surgery down there. Just because you’re an ignorant old man doesn’t excuse you to make stupid statements like this.

    Do you by any chance remember Stonewall? Trans people were an active part of that.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Bob LaBlah: I work around 30 hours a week. That’s not unemployed, moron. I have my own car. Not the greatest car in the world, but hey it runs decently.

    Funny how you can only attack my employment history while you live in some fucking shack in Kentucky.

  • DerekR

    @Giancarlo85: girls, girls…I can settle this, you’re both royal dbags.

  • Giancarlo85

    @DerekR: What did I say that was so offensive?

  • Raquel Santiago

    OY, here we go again. First of all within the transgender umbrella each identification is open to individual interpretation and a person has the right to identify or not identify as they see fit. The problem here can be solved across the board by creating Uni-sex bathrooms and locker rooms because this issue is going to get more and more out of hand from the religious lunatics and general nut balls who are a few tomatoes short of a fruit salad. I do however, see both sides to this but the way it was handled by the biological female nut job in the locker room was wrong and identifying the other person as a man makes me just cringe. I do not play well with uneducated people. My major concern in all of this is that at some point we may see a murder or physical assault on a self-identified transgender person due to hate, stereotyping and just plain stupidity. Lets avoid that happening and come to a compromise at least for now that can solve this issue. However, until unisex bathrooms or lockerrooms are available to people they have the legal right to use whichever one they self identify as. This problem is not going to go away anytime soon, and made a huge post about this about 2 years ago that this would be the next issue that come up in the community. Its not deja vu its common sense.

  • Raquel Santiago

    @werk:

    While it may not be specifically in your city, i grew up in Temperance Michigan on the TOledo Ohio border. I had to get out fast and left as a teenager. The hate ran rampan and its still there but getting better progress takes time.

  • frickeepoo

    @Raquel Santiago: At SOME point? As opposed to all the transgendered people who’ve been murdered in the past due to love, diversity, and the wisdom of the universe?

  • Raquel Santiago

    @Ladbrook:
    Hi Ladbrook hope this helps and answers your questions. If not please feel free to email me at [email protected]
    1) At what point in a trans-person’s transition does that individual begin using public facilities marked for certain genders (ie: bathrooms, fitting rooms, locker rooms, etc…)?

    Each city has different laws, the problem here lies in that some people can only self identify as transgender due to medical conditions, money to make the transition, personal choice etc. There are a ton of reasons. That said there has been no real federal laws on the books about this because the supreme court has not taken up the issue (YET). Some places only require medical documentation that a person is either transitioning, or is undergoing hormones or identifies as other than their biological sex. The Transgender umbrella is open to individual interpretation meaning a person may or may not identify as transgender for example Drag Queens or Drag Kings.

    2) Do trans individuals use these facilities before attempting any physical alterations to their bodies (ie: surgeries/hormone therapies, etc) or do they wait until they have reached a certain point in the process before doing so? If so, at what point?

    Again, it depends on the person. There could be medical reasons why a person is delayed. However, MOST transgender people i know if they are male to female do not show their lower private areas, they change privately behind stalls etc. We see more comments about male to female transitioning than we do female to male for some unknown reason.

    3) And finally, what is the official position from the trans community on when it is acceptable for a trans person to use public facilities designated for the gender with which they identify?

    Again its relative, it is going to depend on each individual person. Because I have severe medical conditions, my transformation takes longer, I look more male than female SOMETIMES. Each person is going to feel differently there is no universal polity or feeling on this. However, most agree there needs to be a Uni-sex bathroom or lockerroom not just for privacy but also safety and security. this is a good compromise, however then there will be those that claim segretation. Its about coming to a good medium.

    I guess it comes down to a curiosity about the actual surgical procedures(especially with respect to MtF transgendered). In other words, is it acceptable for, say, Bruce Jenner to enter the women’s locker room to change and shower once he privately or publically identifies as trans/female, or does he wait until he has completed the surgical process? (Assuming Jenner really is transgendered as reports claim).

  • Raquel Santiago

    @frickeepoo:
    Hi,

    My comment on that is only in relation to this issue not the overall one of hate, discrimination and murder That comment was only in regards to the bathroom/locker room issue.

    • frickeepoo

      @Raquel Santiago: Sorry for the arrogance, I knew you meant well. But I’m sure there have been transgendered people who have suffered violence or even death as a result of this very issue of using the ‘wrong’ restroom.

  • Raquel Santiago

    @Jacob23:

    I cannot help but notice you said LGB u left off a crapload.. LGBTQQYIA and there is a lot more. We have been at the forefront of equality since the days before the internet, even during the time of the Roman Empire and lets go even further back in time shall we. I sit on the San Francisco Human rights commission Equity Advisory Committee and a crapload of other equal rights areas including people with disabilities, While i respect your right to feel and think the way you do, I would hope that you would get to know some trans members in your community and realize just how much work we do for everyone not just one area and it is about equality across the board

  • Raquel Santiago

    @Jacob23:

    Also, you are confusing gender identify with sexual identity. A person can be transgender and still identify as gay or lesbian. It is open to individual interpretation.

  • Raquel Santiago

    @frickeepoo:
    Hi Frickeepoo,

    I agree, i actually know several transgender friends who were murdered or killed it is a nightmare. Hate needs to stop across the board and we need to move past tolerance and into acceptance of everyone. People in general are afraid of things they do not understand and what they fear they destroy. I did look back at my comment and was typing so fast i can see how it came across and it was not meant that way. I should have added “at some point in regards to this particular issue we are going to see more violence unless steps are taken to be inclusive and add uni-sex bathrooms/lackerooms. this issue is not going to go away anytime soon, my biggest fear is the kids and teenagers growing up self-identifying or in the transitional stages, we are seeing reports about this across the board and then we have trans children and adult taking their own lives to avoid the hate that is going on. Where does it stop?

  • Mike G

    @Jacob23: How would you feel if gyms didn’t want to “annoy” straight men (roughly 95% of the male population by currently accepted statistics) by refusing to allow gay/bi men to use straight-men’s locker rooms? How’s that any different?

    @Bob LaBlah: Oh, poor you. God forbid you have to look at a human body part that offends thine eyes. Why should I have look at your “flat ass”, someone else’s fat gut, hairy back, fungus-infected toenails, etc?

  • Bob LaBlah

    @Mike G: ” Why should I have look at your “flat ass”, someone else’s fat gut, hairy back, fungus-infected toenails, etc?”

    How in the world did YOU leave soiled BVD’s off the list? Was it an accident or are you………………………I have heard we all have our reasons for going into the gym. By the way, I prefer pancaked ass, if you don’t mind.

  • Mike G

    @Bob LaBlah: LOL – I’ve never actually seen it (that I know of, anyway), you were the one who said it was “flat.” :) How about flapjack ass? Almost sounds a bit sexy, even, though maybe that’s just me. ;)

    As for the implication re soiled BVDs… let’s not even go there, shall we? (serious shudder) I guess the guys in my neighborhood know how to wipe their asses after they take a dump; the worst I’ve seen in that vein is the occasional pee-stained pouch, and while I am emphatically NOT into “water sports” either, I can live with that…

    Seriously though, all this gender-related crap about bathrooms and locker-rooms just gives me a huge pain the neck. I know all too well that the world isn’t ready for it, but personally, I’d have absolutely no problem going unisex all around.

  • jeffsmith60

    @Raquel Santiago: You put tomatoes in your fruit salad?

  • VampDC

    I’m gay but I do not agree with PF’s decision. It opens a can of worms. How can planet fitness ever deny anyone into either locker rooms now? A predator – who would go to extreme lengths can dress to the extreme as a woman and go into the women’s locker room to watch the women change. It opens a horrible can of worm.

    Locker rooms are created based on biology. Just as why men’s bathrooms have urinals and female stalls have wastebaskets. They complement their biology, not their preference.?

  • Giancarlo85

    @VampDC: “I’m straight but I do not agree with gay men in the locker room. It opens a can of worms. How can a gym ever deny anyone into locker rooms now? Now I got gay men looking at me and I might get raped.” – Just using your non-existent logic.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Raquel Santiago: Finally a trans person on here who is talking sense. Some of these guys won’t get it though. I happen to be genderqueer, but I won’t even go into what that means because it isn’t worth it. I just don’t like strict labels/definitions and I’m not gender conforming. Now this doesn’t mean I crossdress… I’m not trans either. But I have some friends who are (and by the way, those I know are not heterosexual… learn to separate gender identity with sexual orientation… and they have chosen not to do the reassignment surgery either)

    Look many of these guys on here have their set ideas… they don’t even like bi men. Jacob said LGB… I actually think many on here only think “LG” with not “BT”. They don’t realize the work trans people have done since the days of Stonewall.

  • jwtraveler

    @frickeepoo: :)

  • Mike G

    @VampDC: If all your hypothetical predator is doing is “looking” at women change, who gives a rat’s ass? That smacks mightily of paranoia and sounds like something straight out of the Religious Right’s playbook!

    By that same logic, to repeat a point that’s been made a number of times already in this thread, shouldn’t lesbians/bis be banned from “straight women’s” locker rooms, too? (And of course gays/bis from straight men’s.) At familry-irented facilities like the Y, shouldn’t there be separate, professionally supervised children’s locker rooms (gender appropriate, of course!) because some perverted adult might be ogling little girls and boys? One could go on ad nauseam…

  • jwtraveler

    @Jacob23: Justice, unlike capitalism, is not a numbers game. Standing for justice is not often profitable, but it is always the right thing to do. Being gay and Jewish, I have a personal understanding of the history of injustice in the world. Injustice is ALWAYS MY CONCERN as it should be for everyone.

  • jwtraveler

    @VampDC: I’ve heard this tired, stupid argument about predators dressing in drag and going into women’s restrooms and locker rooms so many times, and yet I’ve never heard of it actually happening. Meanwhile millions of children are sexually assaulted by their soccer coaches, priests, uncles, brothers and fathers, most of whom are never punished for their crimes. Yet you bigots are obsessed by transgender people in restrooms and locker rooms.

  • Low Country Boy

    Good for Planet Fitness!

  • inbama

    @Giancarlo85:
    How is this relevant?
    Have you ever once heard even the looniest homophobe suggest gay men use the women’s room?

  • Giancarlo85

    @inbama: Apparently you didn’t get the point. Doesn’t surprise me really.

    Some would want gay men using the gym at all. Use your brain please.

    And it is totally relevant.

  • inbama

    @Giancarlo85:
    I get the point.
    You criticized someone’s sense of logic when you have none yourself.

  • Low Country Boy

    @Giancarlo85: Be nice!

  • VampDC

    @Giancarlo85: Except when everyone enters a mens or women’s locker room they are all agreeing to one thing: their biology. When changing their is a sense of comfort that everyone is putting out the same goods on the table.

    I would feel very uncomfortable and would not change if a female to male person was in the mens locker room.

  • Saint Law

    @Bob LaBlah: Your clammy handed perving over youth is the perfect complement to your disgust at your own aging body.

    There really is no more just punishment for you than your being you.

  • Giancarlo85

    @inbama: You are the one who has no clue. And some of you keep trying to justify your own hypocrisy and keep failing at it.

  • Giancarlo85

    @VampDC: Awful logic. Are you looking at other people changing? Maybe you shouldn’t be going to gyms in the first place. Their biology? Errr wrong. This is about gender which is a social construct. And won’t straight men feel uncomfortable with someone like looking at them change?

  • IvanPH

    I googled “Carlotta Sklodowska”. She looks scary.

  • Mike G

    @VampDC: You don’t take your own logic far enough.

    The reason “most people” (90% of whom are straight) are “comfort[able] [with] everyone .. putting out the same goods on the table” is that sexual behavior and “relations between the sexes” is a non-issue in that environment (for them). Throw homo-/bisexuals into that mix, and you destroy that fundamental basis of “comfort”.

    @IvanPH: Fat guys with hairy backs look scarier to me. What’s your point?

  • aliengod

    Ridiculous decision on the part of Planet Fitness. How can anyone think it’s right for a man to be in the ladies changing room? It’s a total violation of women’s privacy. For all they know, this man was just a pervert trying to catch a peek. This is truly a safety issue for women. I typically despise Family Research Council but they were spot on when they say Planet Fitness is “no longer part of the rational universe”. The LGB community has got to quit aligning with this nonsense. It does nothing to help our cause.

  • Maude

    Some stupid mindless not ‘finished’ yet trans was beaten almost to death in a McDonald’s ladies room for using ‘her’ dick in plane sight.
    Reportedly, she took a piss in the sink because the stalls were all occupied.

    It made the national news, and was reported months later that “the HE/SHE” was permanently brain damaged……but didn’t report whether or not it was the result of the beating.

  • Mike G

    @aliengod: Um… yeah. Her (transM) appearance just screams “pervert trying to catch a peek”.

    Once again, how is this any different than a homo-/bisexual person being in their so-called gender-appropriate locker room? If I were straight, I might very well feel “violated” by some other dude obviously checking out my exposed privates. Hell, I’m _not_ straight, and sometimes feel that way anyway. (It’s a locker room, not a fucking bathhouse!) (shaking head)

  • Giancarlo85

    @aliengod: LGBT. Go ahead and continue siding with the right wingers, and posting such nonsense. What about lesbians checking out other women?

    Seems to me trans people are always an easy target for some on here. You know what that does nothing to help our cause? Attitudes like your own. Learn your history please. Trans people were at Stonewall. People like you would probably want to erase that from history though.

  • Mike G

    @Maude: Pissing in the sink (where in God’s name is that appropriate?) is clearly bizarre behavior and warrants having your assed tossed out of the restaurant, but sure, that makes it just fine to nearly beat her to death. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, what is wrong with you people?

    I guess it just goes to show that queers really are just “regular” people. Lots of ’em make me mortified to be of the same genus, let alone species…

  • Giancarlo85

    @Mike G: I would actually say if you pissed in a sink you could probably get arrested for that…

    But to be beaten almost to death… Maude has lost his mind.

  • Mike G

    @Giancarlo85: You’re probably right, though I have to say that, personally, I think it would be kind of awful to subject someone to the American justice system for such a relatively minor transgression. (My brother was once a prosecutor and is now a criminal defense lawyer, I know whereof I speak.) It’s totally gross, I freely allow, but urine being sterile, it’s not even a public health issue, seriously speaking…

  • Bob LaBlah

    @Saint Law: “Your clammy handed perving over youth is the perfect complement to your disgust at your own aging body.

    There really is no more just punishment for you than your being you.”

    Your kind really do make me laugh. Or should I say make us old farts laugh. Take the two or three old farts (over fifty and not afraid to tell the truth about it) whom I sometimes have breakfast or lunch with after a workout. We are the ones you turn your nose up as though your smelling shit when walking to the gym and you happen to see us. We are the ones you honestly do think timed walking in the gym at the same time you did just to get a “glimpse” of what you honestly do think are buns worthy of being praised in the locker room. We’re the ones you sheepishly walk past when the other young princesses put you in your place as to whether you can jump the line for the ass machine (elliptical).

    Oh LORD, do we just break out the champaign when we are right behind you and hear every word (or lie) you can muster as to why your membership dues are so delinquent it is questionable whether or not you should be let into the club AGAIN. Yes, we are the ones who notice the look of absolute HURT on your face when the cute, just came thru the door twink, politely asks us if we are finished with a piece of equipment while not even bothering to look at you (the fool who jumped on the elliptical machine next to his and ignored his eye contact but now wishing you had rethought that foolish stunt because even YOU know it was a silly thing to have done) the entire length of his membership.

    We notice all kinds of silly things young’uns like you do but as I just said, we LAUGH at you. It is great being an old perf fart who can pay his own way. Can you? I know you can SAY it but is it the truth?

    As far as a freak entering the locker room and changing his clothes, I still can’t get ready for that. I don’t understand why all the fuss over being rejected because one can’t do a damn thing else in life other than put on a dress and read other idiots who seek their company.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Mike G: Well I’m sure it would be a fine. Maybe not an arrest. It isn’t a health issue you’re right, though they probably would clean the sink anyways. Heck, that sink was probably more dirty before lol.

  • TransParency_

    This is inspiring and a sign of change. I applaud the decision of the gym; Cis white women are among the most privileged groups in this country, I’m thrilled to see this one being put in her place. It is terrifying for transwomen to socialize in women’s spaces because our cis-normative, cis-sexist, cis-centric, genital essentialist society makes them feel as abnormal. Cis women(as cis homos) must learn to accept and respect our bodies and identities and stop trying to erase us. We’re not going anywhere.

  • Raquel Santiago

    Anyone else notice, posts about the gay, lesbian community or straight world get 10-15 comments. Transgender threads get 50+

    I do see most people’s points on here and every trans person is going to identify differently and thus act differently. I personally have never felt comfortable using the womens locker room at FitnessSF however, i have been asked numerous times what i do not use the womens locker room, i just didnt feel comfortable doing that because of how i self identify however, in San Francisco and what i am workng towards but in San Francisco its a whole different story we live in bubble here granted we still have the nutjobs. I am not shy or bashful about myself, however, i told them i am not ready to use it yet until i have more of a female figure, I do not know if I will ever have the full monty. But another trans person may want to I know several trans people who use the opposite lockeroom of their biological sex and there has never been a documented issue here. These fears people have are scientifically and logically unwarranted in any civilized society.

  • Giancarlo85

    @TransParency_: Maybe one thing you should stop doing is slapping labels on a bunch of people. I’ve been a supporter of everyone in the community, including trans people, but all you do on here is alienate people.

  • TransParency_

    @Giancarlo85: What you call ‘alienate’, I call ‘calling you out’ on your privilege as a Cis homo and the privilege of Cis white women. It’s very easy being patronizing toward other people when you are at a place of privilege.

  • inbama

    @Mike G:
    Again, gay men are men which is why we use and have always used the “men’s room.”
    Lesbians are women, which is why they have always used the “ladies’ room.”
    How ridiculous we have become that something so obvious to 98% of humanity needs to be explained.
    Have you ever heard anyone EVER suggest gay men should use the ladies’ room?

  • Faggot

    @Raquel Santiago: @Jacob23:

    “Also, you are confusing gender identify with sexual identity. A person can be transgender and still identify as gay or lesbian. It is open to individual interpretation.”

    Interpretation is a two-way street.

  • Giancarlo85

    @TransParency_: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I’m a Latino. Privilege is the last thing you should be telling me I have. On average, latino males get paid less than white males. You are patronizing to everyone on here and you are sickening. Stop calling me this “cis” cr*ap. I can’t stand that stupid label. Oh and I’m genderqueer. So you don’t know anything about me.

    And what place of privilege am I at? Do you know me? I been working class all my life, and I put myself through college… so you don’t know fuck all.

  • Pax

    Segregated bathrooms or locker rooms are rather ridiculous. Who cares if a man and a woman are doing their business in the same space anyway?!

    But, apparently, most women do care if a man (or a biological man who now identifies as woman) is in their traditionally restricted spaces:

    “A Midland lawyer disagrees (with Planet Fitness).

    State Rep. Gary Glenn (R-Larkin Township) told MLive.com, “Planet Fitness obviously should rethink its anti-woman, anti-reality policy. If they don’t, they shouldn’t be surprised in a conservative family-friendly community such as Midland if they lose more female members.”

    Glenn said Planet Fitness needs to give its female members notice in advance as to the presence of transgender members using the locker rooms, because not doing so “violates the privacy, comfort and peace of mind of women.”

    It might have been more convincing if the statement had come from a (biologically born) woman.

  • VampDC

    @Giancarlo85: Sex is biology. Locker rooms are split by sex. It would do someone with a vagina no good to have a urinal. It would serve purposeless for men to have a waste basket for feminine products in their stalls.

    When you enter a locker room you’re agreeing to one thing. That you and everyone else in their is one thing…the same sex. It doesn’t say anything about sexuality, how you feel, what you do on the weekend, what you wear, how old you are, and your political views. NO. Just one thing…that you are all of the same sex.

  • Giancarlo85

    @VampDC: Some straight men don’t want gay men looking at their penises like what you probably do. Straight men don’t want gay men even in the same changing room as them.

    Just using your DEMENTED logic. Do you have anything else silly to say?

  • inbama

    @Giancarlo85:
    Hey you name-calling bully-queen, answer VAMP’s point.

    “Locker rooms are split by sex. It would do someone with a vagina no good to have a urinal. It would serve purposeless for men to have a waste basket for feminine products in their stalls.”

    You can’t because he or she is right.

  • aliengod

    @VampDC: You’re exactly right. Unfortunately, common sense tends to offend people like Giancarlo85 and @TransParency.

  • Bob LaBlah

    @Giancarlo85: “Oh and I’m genderqueer. ”

    Don’t stop there. Please go on. Tell us what make and color your castanuelas are. I bet their black, just like…….LOL…clap,clap,clap….pound (the desk) pound, pound…….stomp,stomp,stomp. OH STOP PLEASE!!! My side actually is hurting.

    Listen, that not withstanding, what does this “genderqueer” mean? You have no…..you have no personality? Clothes? Shoes? Sense? I know you have no job, friends or money but I am curious about what that means.

  • Giancarlo85

    @inbama: His point is off and wrong. Straight men could feel uncomfortable being in a locker room with a gay man. Just that simple. They might say they could even be raped. Some of you have the logic of pigeons.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Bob LaBlah: Is your ulcer giving you trouble again? I would go see a doctor about that man.

    Genderqueer means gender non-conforming. I do not crossdress by the way. Anyways, you’re not worth an explanation. The best of luck with the ulcer.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Bob LaBlah: And it’s interesting you know so much about my personal life.

    I have a job, I have friends and I have a fair amount of money. You can go drive into a brick wall for all I care. I may not be rich, but I have a lot more friends than a miserable fat lazy stupid slob like you.

  • inbama

    @Bob LaBlah:

    Bob,
    Apparently “genderqueer” is what people who say they hate labels label themselves.

  • jayj150

    @Giancarlo85: You said: “Genderqueer means gender non-conforming”. No, it doesn’t. A gender non-conforming person is simply one who doesn’t conform to stereotypical gender norms; that’s all it means. A gender non-conforming person is happy with the sex they were BORN WITH, and doesn’t let society’s gender-based stereotypes make them feel uncomfortable about their bodies. Using ‘genderqueer’ as a label to describe gender non-conforming people is an oxymoron, because most of them are in fact gender critical. It’s funny you act offended by the use of labels(such as the ridiculous ‘Cis’) yet you try to impose your own labels on other people.

  • Bob LaBlah

    @jayj150: “You said: “Genderqueer means gender non-conforming”. No, it doesn’t. A gender non-conforming person is simply one who doesn’t conform to stereotypical gender norms; that’s all it means. A gender non-conforming person is happy with the sex they were BORN WITH, and doesn’t let society’s gender-based stereotypes make them feel uncomfortable about their bodies. Using ‘genderqueer’ as a label to describe gender non-conforming people is an oxymoron, because most of them are in fact gender critical. It’s funny you act offended by the use of labels(such as the ridiculous ‘Cis’) yet you try to impose your own labels on other people.”

    WOW!! You sure gave her something to swim back across the Rio Grande and shout from the mountain tops. I say things to her to chide her on, more or less but I am sure deep down she simply a HARMLESS silly ass Mexican queen from Guadalajara with imaginary friends.

    Thank god she hasn’t a clue as to what side of the hill my shack, rusting pick-up truck and still are on. I know I would probably have to shoot her over my BLACK bull that roams the hillside looking for cows and his type. LOL

  • Giancarlo85

    @jayj150: You are incorrect. That isn’t what genderqueer means at all. You also don’t know what gender nonconforming means either. You really don’t have a clue do you? I have talked with you before and you seem a bit slow. Have you ever met anyone who is genderqueer because I highly doubt it. And where was I imposing labels on anyone? I am talking about myself and no one else.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Bob LaBlah: Wow a Rac*ist too… Who would have figured. I am not Mexican… But I take it you think anyone who is brown and speaks Spanish is Mexican. You and jay seem to be stuck in your own parallel realities. By the way, I am South American… So you are thinking the wrong location. I don’t care for your bigoted homophobic ass anyways.

    Reading jays paragraph again just shows how stupid he is… I can’t believe there can be such idiots in the gay community.

  • Mike G

    @inbama: Oh, bullshit. Your argument, such as it is, is ridiculous. It’s the same one, or a direct analog to those, used to justify discrimination against “cis-gendered” gays, lesbians and bisexuals.

    “Have you ever heard anyone EVER suggest gay men should use the ladies’ room?”

    In derogatory jest, yes, and in fact fairly often, though fortunately it’s been quite a while. In the not very distant past, “most people,” to borrow your phrase, in fact conflated transexuality with homosexuality. “Most people” considered the phrase “masculine gay/bi man” to be an obvious oxymoron. In fact, many still do.

    You must be young, or just exceptionally self-involved. Or you would know from vicarious, if not personal, experience that not so very long ago in the scheme of things, gay men could be, and were, banned from men’s locker rooms at gyms, whether officially or by threat of violence tacitly ignored by the powers that were. At best, they were made to feel extremely unwelcome.

    Much more recently, similar arguments were used to justify banning gays, lesbians and bisexuals from the military. Seriously. Supporters of the ban used to say, among other things, EXACTLY that: “What would we have to do, build separate showers?”

    Even currently, some pro athletes have publicy stated that they would not be comfortable sharing a locker room/shower with a gay or bi teammate and recived sympathy from the general public and their fans, if not, fortunately from team and league managers. (And that last part is a very, very recent change in official policy.)

    I’d ask if you bothered to read any of the comments prior to your own, but figure you probably wouldn’t have given them much thought even if you had. So, once again, I will repeat what should be obvious: the fundamental premise underlying the belief that you think you share with “98% of humanity” is a presumption of hetereosexuality. Take that away, and the argument falls apart. If you don’t see that, I can’t think of anything more to say than what I’ve always said to bigoted heterosexuals: “Get over it, or get out of the way.”

  • Giancarlo85

    @Mike G: You can’t help the ignorant. Inbama and Bob are too nasty trolls who get their satisfaction of the suffering of others. These two are doing the same thing homophobes like Pat Robertson are doing. It is quite sad we have such self destructive people I the gay community.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Giancarlo85: Sorry damn autocorrect lol. Later guys, I will be on later. I can’t wait to see the responses by that idiot jay and xenophobe bob. Errr… Not.

  • AtticusBennett

    @Jacob23: but you only say that because you’re a cowardly troll and you know damn well nobody in your own life actually accepts you as you are.

    behind every anti-trans gay man is a family that hates calling that gay man their son.

    Planet Fitness did the right thing. Anyone who disagrees is in for a world of disappointment – you’re on the wrong side of history and you’re pathetic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJom6vyRtQc

  • Bob LaBlah

    @Giancarlo85: Say my name real fast six times. Say it as fast as you can. What you are saying when you do it is exactly what I hear in all of your comments. Go ahead. Say my name six times as FAST as you can and see if you get what I just said. I would be surprised if it gets lost in translation. By the way, congratulations on getting picked up in front of the 7-11 this morning. Day work is better than no work.

    Folks, and I am addressing everyone, imagine HAVING to get up everyday and work in the Planet Fitness club and deal with people like this cretin TRYING to pass itself off as a woman. Here you have a THING with fingernails, tits, brassiere…the whole shabang that can’t seem to figure out there are men, even gay men, that simply don’t want to change nor be around something like that. I feel sorry for those workers who have to deal with situations like that. And lets not even go into what they probably have to deal with as far as the steam room goes. I bet its nothing but another Bally’s Total Fitness L street club in Washington, D.C. in reality. Why else would this creature have decided to go to it. And this “friend” who invited her? Imagine what IT must look like as well.

  • jayj150

    @Giancarlo85: You said: ” You are incorrect. That isn’t what genderqueer means at all.”. I never tried to define ‘genderqueer’, all I said is you are wrong in equating ‘gender non-conforming’ with ‘genderqueer’. You are extremely arrogant in trying to stick a label of your choice on all gender-nonconforming people(most of whom are in fact gender critical and would object to a label such as ‘genderqueer’), and also hypocritical since you yourself claim to be a critic of gender-related labels.

    You also said I don’t know what ‘gender non-conforming’ is; let me repeat it: ‘gender non-conforming’ simply describes those people who don’t conform to society’s stereotypical gender norms. That’s ALL IT MEANS. If you think that definition is incorrect, then please explain to me what you think ‘gender non-conforming’ means instead of resorting to catty name-calling.

  • AtticusBennett

    @Bob LaBlah: what’s it like being such a worthless, unloved coward that the only outlet you have in life is anonymous internet commenting? just to be clear – this is exactly why your father always was ashamed of you.

  • Bob LaBlah

    @AtticusBennett: Is it safe to assume you won’t be at this Saturday night’s cross burning?

  • Giancarlo85

    @jayj150: You are a fucking moron. Your posts says it all. I am talking about me, you illiterate little punk. You don’t know anything about genderqueer people. You are beyond stupid. Every post of yours I have read just displays ignorance. You don’t know anything about this topic so stop trying to define what words mean. Just another straight acting closet case you are.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Bob LaBlah: Keep your piss poor reading comprehension skills to the trailer park please. It isn’t my fault you have no one in your life and have the social skills of a hermit. But then again I don’t think any self respecting gay man would want to be with you.

  • Giancarlo85

    And I didn’t stick any labels on anyone. Jay, I know you are an insecure closet case, but gender isn’t a subject you know anything about. You have display idiocy everytime I have seen one of your stupid posts. Next time take it from someone who is actually genderqueer, shut your phony fat face.

  • jayj150

    @Giancarlo85: I am actually a gender non-conforming, out gay man. I know a lot about people trying to shove labels on me because I refuse to conform. I don’t understand your reaction, all I said is you can’t equate being gender non-conforming to being ‘genderqueer’. Most gender-non-conforming people would actually object to being called ‘gendequeer’ because it’s an unnecessary label, and because it enforces the very homophobic view that if you don’t display the traits typically associated with your gender, then you are not really that gender but something else. If the label ‘genderqueer’ works for you, fine, but don’t equate it to being non-conforming, we don’t need another label. You haven’t yet given your definition of either genderqueer or gender non-conforming.

  • Giancarlo85

    @jayj150: You couldn’t be anymore of a liar. I’ve already talked with you in the past and I think you’re absolutely delusional. You insulted me before and I will not listen to your garbage. I am gender non-conforming and I am fine with the word “genderqueer”. And many people I know also adopted that. It isn’t unnecessary. It’s the label that isn’t one. And don’t tell me what I can equate or not, you are not the authority of the way words can or cannot be used. I already gave my definition. You are just too illiterate and have poor reading comprehension skills.

    You’re nothing more than a waste of my time. You don’t control what I say or think. You are a nobody. I can do whatever the fuck I want and if you think you’re going to control me, go get a reality check.

  • Giancarlo85

    By the way, you want to know why I gave you this reaction? Because your first post to me in here indicated you’re nothing more than a know-it-all hypocrite who knows nothing about gender or non-conformity.

  • Giancarlo85

    Funny how you said nothing to Bob about basically calling me a wetback, when I’m not even Mexican. The things that man has said about Latinos are hugely offensive.

    So I take it your fake outrage is supposed to change my mind?

    I take it you’re cool with the way Bob has spoken to me, yet when I use a word that MOST gender nonconforming people have adopted… you resort to hysterics?

    You have a LOT of growing up to do.

  • Bob LaBlah

    @Giancarlo85: Lord, will you listen to the pot calling the kettle black. Look, where ever it is your from it is SOUTH of where I am so there you have it. I don’t know much about where your from or the south. I even have my still on the northern most part of the hill I live on.

  • Giancarlo85

    @Bob LaBlah: I know you are a nasty white cracker with too much time on his hands. We get it already. You shouldn’t take out your shortcomings on me. You are a disgusting piece of trash.

  • inbama

    @Mike G:

    “‘Have you ever heard anyone EVER suggest gay men should use the ladies’ room?'”

    “In derogatory jest, yes…”

    In other words, actually, no.

    Transgender rights can and should be defended without resorting to dishonesty, bad logic, and demanding that every living person speak this bogus ideological language of gender. These days we sound less like a civil rights movement than a cult.

  • Giancarlo85

    @inbama: You have no clue as usual… No idea what you are talking about.

  • inbama

    @Giancarlo85:
    You are nothing but a pile of insults, and still you persist with your name-calling as if that’s some kind of substitute for rational thinking and an education.
    When the backlash comes – and it will come if we become an endless chain of increasingly specious letters and use ideological slogans instead of speaking clear and concise English like normal educated people – remember your role in providing the enemy with cause.

  • Giancarlo85

    @inbama: I post the facts for you and you just continue with your brownnosing of right wing fanatics. I am glad you are not in charge of anything. Somebody as stupid as you could do incredible damage. By the way, you could use the same argument against same sex marriage… the backlash lmao. Who cares about some idiotic social conservatives in your backwards state?

  • inbama

    I’m done with you.
    Again, calling me “stupid” merely shows you have no argument, insight or decency.

  • Mike G

    @inbama: Strictly speaking, I suppose you’re correct. They were in fact suggesting that gays/lesbians/bis use neither locker room at all. If you consider that support for your argument, I guess I can’t change your mind.

    You don’t want transsexuals in what they perceive to be the correctly gendered locker room. Bob LaBlah apparently doesn’t want them in the locker rooms you consider appropriate. Others think they should use the ones appropriate to their self-perceived gender. Some people still don’t want them, or for that matter, cis-gendered gays, lesbians and bisexuals in any locker room at all. Fewer still, like me, really don’t care who uses which and would have no problem using non-gendered, pan-orientation locker rooms.

    Guess we’ll just have to leave it for the voting booth and the I-hate-myself-for-actually-saying-this so-called free market. Oh, wait. I thought that’s what we were doing. So I will say, one last time: “Get over it, or get out of the way.”

  • Giancarlo85

    @inbama: You’re the one with absolutely no real argument. You are a total hypocrite. You are the one with no decency. You came in here swinging at me (and you failed miserably)… hypocrite.

  • inbama

    @Mike G:
    Do you read what you’re responding to?

    Mike, my last post should’ve made it perfectly clear that I support transgenders using whichever restroom makes them more comfortable and probably every other right you can name.

    I do not support changing the LGBT movement from a civil rights alliance into a transfeminist movement where words and critical thinking are banned under the threat of exerting “cisgender privilege” or some other nonsense.

  • darkanser

    @jwtraveler: Kudos for your comparison. I wonder what this former PF member actually saw. Did she actually see a penis in the women’s locker room? Or did she assume the trans person walking in the locker room and assumed she/he MUST have a penis?
    I hear a lot of suggestions about uni-sex locker rooms. Does that mean men and women — everyone — would be sharing the same locker room? A step in the right direction for PF might be to have -outside of the locker rooms — single user bath rooms. It would be an additional expense – like a single user locker room. I know the question “Shouldn’t transgender people have the right to shower at the gym too?” will come up but one should get the spirit of what I’m suggesting.

  • darkanser

    @Maude: @Pax: Talk about putting a target on their backs!! Advise “other” women –maybe a banner would do — of the possibility of there being transgendered people in their locker room? Clearly he’s not focusing on the privacy, security and comfort of transgenders. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. It would take a Republican to foment prejudice while at the same time making it sound like it’s for the general good.

  • joe

    “sincere ‘self-reported gender’ identity” <<< good luck with that ! what i dont understand is why all of a sudden that people (like me) who will be very uncomfortable with a trans person showering, changing, being naked, whatever – that our comfort zones are no longer important and are in fact overruled. the way i feel is not sincerely respected.

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