Yes. Albania. “Albania’s governing Democrats have proposed a law allowing same-sex civil weddings in the small, predominantly Muslim country. An announcement on the government Web site Thursday said the bill ‘may spark debate’ but was needed to stop discrimination against gay couples. Current law only recognizes heterosexual marriages. Prime Minister Sali Berisha said the move followed requests from rights groups. His Democrats, who control 74 of parliament’s 140 seats, are expected to easily pass the law.”
Albania On Track to Beat U.S. In Legalizing Gay Marriage. Albania?!
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glen
Didn’t the US go to war with Albania in “Wag the Dog”? Albania was chosen because no one knows where it is, or cares, really. I suspect the same response from mainstream media here.
AlwaysGay
Congratulations gay people in Albania!
kevin vancouver
@glen: sounds like a typical self involved entitled american response, why should anyone care about anywhere else when one lives in the greatest country in the world…
TANK
They can legalize soap and hot showers while they’re at it.
Cam
Oh My god! This is HUGE! A MUSLIM country legalizing gay marriage?! I understand it isn’t in the middle east, but this really is amazing news. I hope Albania is able to pass it, good for them!
strumpetwindsock
@TANK:
You assume they have poor hygiene there?
What do you base that on other than racism and the assumption that everything must be better in your country?
Fact is their life expectancy is almost the same as the U.S. Perhaps the fact they already have universal medicare may have something to do with that.
You might want to check out their wikipedia page though…. Christianity and Islam are about even, but almost 70 percent of the population have no religion whatsoever. You may have found your unwashed mecca, TANK
Cliff
When is the entire US going to step up to the plate? In Canada we have already had it from the Atlantic to the Pacific(the entire country) for well over 3 years.
strumpetwindsock
@Cliff:
well we are fortunate to have the judicial system we do, and fortunate that the provinces were so busy looking at the constitution that no one thought to look at Trudeau’s charter of rights and freedoms.
The religious climate is certainly not as bad here as it is in the states, but had it been put to a vote I doubt it would have passed here either.
I don’t think there’s any call for any of us to get on a high horse about this; wealthier, more developed nations should be expected to do more for their citizens, not ridicule smaller countries which do not have the same opportunity. The fact is that sometimes and in some respects they are more progressive than us.
MARKUS
my cousin drafted the script that was will be passed to law. and she’s a christian in case you are wondering. few albanians are muslim, they want money, women, fast cash, they don’t want mullah, mecca and arabian sand. i know since i’m albanian.
MARKUS
way to go albania —– youclash.com
strumpetwindsock
@MARKUS:
Then you may be able to tell us if Enver Hoxha is turning over in his grave.
In any case, congratulations, and good on your cousin!
MARKUS
I am not sure about Enver, he had dementia 10 years prior to his death in 1985, so he’s probably jumping for joy for all i know.However a new pragmatist stance is taking over the albanian politicians, which I like.
M Shane
Why shouldn’t they be liberal; they don’t have all of the screwed up religious hangups that we do; also not an economy based on greed.Marriage is secular, like everything.
Albania is the first offficially athiest country in the world, and there are pretty much equal small #’s of Muslim, Orthodox Chistians etc. %70 are athiest. They are a democracy but pretty socialist, since they had been communistic but being democratic socialismseems to be the favored economy also they are one of the most mineral rich countries in the world; they are way ahead of the U.S in having clean: water air energy.
Andrew
Having lived and studied in the West I understand how important it is for many people to include Islam with these political issues. But you should try to know a bit more about Albanian society before you make some statements.
I live in Albania, and I am gay, and I find this law ridiculous. For one simple reason: This law is passing because the country wants to get closer to the EU, and not because the gay community has come out and asked for it, or protested about it.
Most gay people, including me do not come out. That is because ours is a very homophobic and classical family-oriented soceity. There are very few openly gay people, and most of them live in Tirana. They are courageous, but it is still going to take a while before the gay community gets stronger.
Religious communities did protest, but I do not think most heterosexuals are against it because the Muslim or Christian clerics have said so. It is because in this society homophobia has deep roots. In communism homosexuality was fought very harshly; 10 years imprisonment if you dared declare yourself homosexual, and even worst punishments if you were caught in homosexual acts. Later on, with the change of the political system the mentality continued to prevail. Albania is a patriarchal society, with the deeply rooted concept that men go with women and women go with men only. The rest is sick, deviant, abnormal, immoral. I guess Albania is not alone in this is it?
I guess the only positive results this law is going to have is: a positive nod from the EU, and maybe in 6-7 years when Albania joins the EU, Greek and Italian gay couples could very well come to Albania and get their civil union here, like some Americans do by going to Canada. But that would be the only outcome for the time being. If the oposite happens I will be very surprised.
And please, if you bother to write here about a country, at least try to Google it first. Its not fiction, its a real country with real people, so try not to “Hollywood” it.
Cheers
tavdy79
Andrew, I’ve never been to Albania but I did know much of what you said as my neighbour is Albanian (and straight, dammit!). One of the big problems that the UK has had during the last few years is large numbers of eastern Europeans – mainly Poles – moving to the UK and finding it hard to assimilate into the local culture because our laws are very different from those of most former eastern bloc countries. For example, many poles have criminal records here because they’re unaware that drink-driving is illegal in the UK or that hate crimes carry heavier penalties. It does make sense for a future EU member state like Albania to change its laws so that when its citizens move to other EU states for work they don’t end up breaking laws they didn’t expect or know of.
Ment
@ANDREW
Ridiculous or not, if the law passes, it will be a huge step forward. Yes, Albanians might still be more conservative than many folks in the EU, but since communism fell, they have “lightened” up significantly.
Finally, whatever Berisha’s motivation, it’s never too soon…or ridiculous to do the right thing.
Robert, NYC
Just watch, if Albana succeeds in passing marriage equality legislation, the American media will play it down or not even cover it at all. I hope Albania succeeds on this one further embarrassing the U.S. Already, among right wingers, they consider marriage equality in Holland, Belgium, Spain, Norway and Sweden, insignificant. Albania will be viewed the same way. Now if the UK suddenly upgraded, that might make our representatives sit up and take note.
M Shane
@No. 14 · Andrew :
I’m not sure if your criticim was directed at me, I doubt that.
Nonetheless, the fact that Albania wants to join the EU is very important. I don’t know if the gay people even want
‘marriage’ as such which is pretty much an eccenticity of the religious extremism and class division here. Indeed I don’t know if they approved Marriage or Civil Unions. I don’t think that the motivation matters, since the populations additude will swing much more readily that belives set in religious superstition.
The investment communism had in heterosexuality had more to do with economic notions, I believe (extrapolating from Foucault’s theories) of controling population growth re;production and consumpsion, not religious irrationality.
Certainly , no matter whether by the influence of Europe and thier social liberalism or by gay interest, it is still a valuable note that Albania is coming up in the world for good reason and that they are open to civil unions.
Cam
@strumpetwindsock: You said “You assume they have poor hygiene there?
What do you base that on other than racism and the assumption that everything must be better in your country? ”
__________________________________________________________
While i’ll admit Tanks joke was in poor taste, being Albainian isn’t a “race”. They are European, so unless Tank is Asian or Black or a Native American, you can’t accuse him of racism. Additionally, life expectancy in the U.S. is nearly 10 years greater than Albania according to the World Health Organization.
All that aside, if they pass this, hell, I’ll make a trip there, lets give Albania some big fat gay tourist dollars if they go ahead with this!
Andrew
My message was not directed at you M Shane. I read all messages and got a general idea.
Generaly speaking:
By ridiculous I meant the way it was proposed. The Chairwoman of the Organization who proposed the draft explained the it would address discrimination, including that towards homosexuals, but not civil unions.
So basically the PM said he will push for this law, and end discrimination overall by proposing for marriage to be included. Then the media made a big news out of it. That’s what I mean by ridiculous: Telling to the Albanian people that a law for gay people will be passed, meanwhile some of them do not even know that homosexuality exists in Albania. The Muslim and Christian clerics are already opposing this draft strongly, and without a strong gay community to oppose it, it would make things worse, instead of improving them.
The people who really care about homosexuals in Albania usually live out of it. All this law is doing is making everyone say the worst things about gay people, including the media, meanwhile the only way the gay community is reacting is through the internet… trying to explain their rights to people who just do not give a damn about LGBT people, simply cus they live double lives, including me unfortunately.
I think that for a law to be passed it needs a good amount of time for the public to discuss about it and understand the real needs of the gay community. That would make a real difference in my life, not a law which might be put in practice years from now. I don’t know if I am making any sense.
Tavdy79, I have lived in the UK and I understand your point of view, but the law does not mean the same thing for the average Albanian. That might sound offensive, but I live and work here, and that is how it is.
Internationaly this could mean a huge thing, considering the type of materials one reads about Albania online, but to Albanians, and in this case to gay Albanians I do not know how much of a big deal would that be.
Anyways, I do think this law is a very good thing, but only if someone here cared. I am talking about the difference that would make in gay people’s lives. As I said earlier some people are coming out. Are they happy? Hell no. But that’s not the point. It is gonna take more than a law to have the rights of LGBT people protected in Albania. In America you have everything ready for gay marriage, and obviously you need the law. In Albania you could have the law, but you do not have the rest. Will the rest come with this law? I certainly hope so.
Cam, you are more than welcome to visit. As a matter of fact toursim is going quite well in here, maybe with more gay people visiting the attitude would change even more for the better 🙂
strumpetwindsock
@Cam:
Actually a slur is a slur, and if you want to get picky it is just as much an ethnic slur as one against an Italian or German person.
Any way you cut it it is an ignorant comment from someone in a country with a fair share of problems of your own.
And according to these stats from the U.S. Census Bureau and the CIA World Factbook (2008 and 09) your two nations are about even:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/life-expectancy-country-2009.html
TANK
Alright, two albanian women were in a grocery store (they have those in albania, right? Or is it a big smelly open public market?), and walked by a pile of potatoes. One women remarked to the other, “those potatoes remind me of my husband’s testicles.” the othe asked, “Because they’re so big?” No, returned the first…because they’re so dirty.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
You’re such a pussy.
strumpetwindsock
@Andrew:
I don’t live in Albania, but I do know that political and policy reform sometimes IS shocking, and something people have to catch up to.
Just look at anti-smoking laws, or for something more sweeping – Ataturk’s reforms in Turkey, the English Reformation, or the end of slavery in the Commonwealth and the U.S.
Sure it is a radical change, if you wait until the people are “ready” you risk the prospect that the time will never be right.
strumpetwindsock
@strumpetwindsock:
For that matter, universal medicare was a shock when it was introduced her. The doctors went on strike and public sentiment wasvery fearful, and against the government until it was broken.
I don’t think there are too many Canadians now who would want to go back to the good old days when you had so shell out cash to go to the hospital.
Bill Perdue
A lot of progressive pro-LBGT legislation came to European countries because of the efforts of the EU. That includes England and most recently Ireland, countries dominated by the roman and anglo catholic christer cults, who are as anti-gay as they come.
We should welcome that trend.
And Robert is right. When same sex marriage comes to Albania it’ll be a another opening to point out the rancid bigotry of anti-GLBT politicians like Palin, Hillary Clinton, Obama, Biden and McCain who are united in their pigheaded opposition to same sex marriage and that of Bill Clinton, who gave us DOMA.
lmao
Albania is the most atheist country in europe so I don’t know what are you talking about? Broken down by religious belief, 70.12% answered they do not belong to any religion, 10.33% said they are Orthodox Christians, 9.43% Sunni Muslims, 8.09% Catholics, 1.27% Bektashi, 0.6% Protestant, 0.1% Evangelists, and 0.6% Other.
54.96% Atheist
15.83% Agnostic
10.33% Orthodox Christians
9.43% Muslims (Sunni)
8.09% Roman Catholics
1.27% Bektashi
0.6% Christian Protestants
0.1% Evangelist
0.6% Others
We are portrayed as muslim just to give a good example to real muslim countries I guess.
bruce
i think 30% of albanians are gay anyway arent they? i dont know what albanians are but i think that i heard they were a gypsy turkish race.
tom
albania where the fck is albania is that that little country who kiss our asses and we had to help their pathetic gay nation agianst yugoslavia are whatever looool no wonder they neede our help now i see why they like dick and balls
rick
albanians legalise gay marriage i think they are gay anyway here in the states they are known for sucking little dicks in San Francisco and they are know for being the new lighter looking terrorists so fck them
sam
Albania is that ,that little country that cries all the time to us here in THE UNITED STATES because they picked a war with those Serbs and we had to help them and now they are terrorists i wish we never helped those gays in that puny nation serbia was always good to us and i have plenty of Serbian friends here fck Albania and their little nation of lighter colored terrorists
Gino
no surprise that they are a gay nation in Italy they walk the streets all fruity and they think their mafia is bigger than the Italian hahahahah what a joke these little punks are that’s good let them marry each other and suck each other off
lisa
Albania is the new Islamic nation that turned gay big deal they are pretty ugly people to begin with i met a couple here in new york and wow they are disgusting people the way they talk and act but worst of their looks puu.
tera
i think its good for their nation to move forward and the gay nation there from what i understand is pretty big now so they should be able to get married and hold hands and kiss in the streets good for them and i think they are the first nation to allow this for a small nation of 3 million this is good for the gay community CONGRTS.
MIKE
fck albanians and fck their gay nation
Mr USA
ALBANIANS ARE A GAY TERRORIST NATION ANYWAY BUT NOW INSTEAD OF STRAPPING BOMBS THEY STRAP DICKS ON AND THE GUYS THEY STICK THEIR LITTLE DYNOMITE STICK IN THEIR PARTNERS TIGHT BUM BUM
Cliff
Look at what happened in Spain. After fascist Franco died, they all went wild. Partying until all hours, gay marriage and back room sex bars and clubs left and right.
ivan
Serbia has 1000 times more war criminals than Albania has gays!