Andrew Sullivan better watch his British back. The left-leaning Proceed At Your Own Riskers ain’t happy with the conservative journo’s Barack Obama love.
In a swooning post, Sullivan featured the presidential candidate’s so-called commitment to fighting homophobia in black churches – and beyond!
From Sunday’s Meet The Press:
I’ve talked to African-American ministers. There’s a problem of homophobia in the African-American community. I will go into churches, I will go into meetings with ministers and say, “I disagree with you on these issues. This is not how I interpret my faith.”
…
I would, as president, make absolutely certain that all federal laws pertaining to married couples [pertain to] same-sex couples who have civil unions as well.
As Sullivan celebrates Obama’s queer commitment, the Riskers remind him of the gay gospel gaffe, a political SNAFU Sullivan seems poised to forget.
Considering Sullivan’s convenient campaign amnesia, the Riskers draw the most obviously generous conclusion: Sullivan’s just as bad as Obama’s anti-gay preacher men. And, what’s worse, has the power to tip Obama over the edge.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Obama believes homosexuality as a choice is a legitimate option, he believes that queers as an abomination is a legitimate option and it’s clear that Obama will say and do whatever it takes to cleave off a percentage of votes from the naive and inattentive among Evangelicals, queers and any other potential voter base. And with influencers like Andrew Sullivan and Rev. Donnie McClurkin beside and behind him, Obama may just succeed in this strategy.
Okay, we understand what the Riskers are saying here, but we seriously, truly don’t believe Andrew Sullivan can sway a national election. Yes, he’s well-known, read and respected, but how many people are out there saying, “Who am I voting for? I don’t know, whatever Andrew Sullivan says”? Probably not many. And, if there are enough Sullivan zombies, God help us all.
Matt
If we’re going to make our support decision based just on what these folks SAY (i.e., “Clinton would never say [what Obmama did about homophobia in African-American churches]”), then why isn’t Sullivan drooling all over Kucinich, who says even more of all the right things (to everyone, all the time)? Thing is, these candidates will SAY anything necessary to get their butts nominated and elected, always couched (except for the unelectable ones) in a bit of wiggle-room so as not to offend voters who are diametrically opposed to what the voters in the candidate’s immediate vicinity support.
We should be looking more at what they DO, or have done, as being illustrative of what they may do as Prez. Obama, for instance, has pretty much zero record on gay/lesbian issues in terms of actually doing things, except for chumming up with a blatantly homophobic fundy. Clinton has a lot of her husband’s baggage (which is mixed: DADT is horrendous, but preferable to the previous situation; similarly DOMA is an abomination, but successfully stopped repub/fundy attempts to push a Constitutional amendment). She has G/L staffers, and performed well (if slickly) at the LOGOthing. Richardson put his foot in it on LOGO, but that’s a “saying” thing: as governor, he supported and signed hate crimes legislation that included transgendered folks, and called a special session to pass domestic partnership legislation. And New Mexico is hardly Massachusetts. (Honestly, until I started poking around here, I didn’t think much of this guy, and I know I’ll catch hell here because he’s a DLCist and Clintonisto and said a bad word on the radio and fucked up on LOGO, plus he could do with losing a few pounds, but I’m still at the “hm” stage.)
Anyway, point is, let’s stop listening to these speeches and interviews, cuz it’a all bullshit anyway, and look at the candidates’ performance and actions.
Sorry about going on and on.
Dawster
well, there are two parts to this. first. Andrew S. is like a little barking chihuahua. think of it: he’s cute as an accessory, and adorable in commercials, as a mascot, and the like… but when it comes to actually protecting the household… he fails. and, like a chihuahua, the barking can be endearing, but after a while it becomes annoying. eventually you just want to step on him.
second, many of us on here will not actually vote in the next election. so bitching at “hillary vs.obama” is just bitching for the sake of bitching. there are no real issues at play here because we (along with most of the nation) can complain and moan all we want… but it’s the people who get up off their asses and go to the voting booths that will decide the outcome – regardless of any candidate’s supporters or gaffes.
i have to agree with Matt here. if you’re going to vote, “stop listening to these speeches”.
hells kitchen guy
No. More. Andew. Sullivan. Ever.
Leland Frances
Qs, you owe me breakfast—and a new keyboard! Really, before you post a picture of this mutant freak you should warn people: NSAB—not safe if you’ve just eaten breakfast!
It’s soooo WHITE of Reichsscribbler Sullivan to have finally found a Neeeegro he approves of. Is this his way of making up for having promoted the racist “Bell Curve” junk science when he was editor-in-chief at “New Republic.” Is Obama acceptable to him because he’s half-white?
FACT: On ALL issues which EACH of the three leading Dem candidates have been asked about more or less equally there is NO substantial difference in their positions. Each supports civil unions including access to federal benefits though each supports a state’s right to decide how [good or bad] state laws apply to them [DOMA Section 2 repeal is beside the point—and functionally moot already given actions already taken to date by states on their own]; each supports DADTDP repeal; each supports immigration equality for gays; each supports increased HIV/
AIDS funding, etc.
FACT: While every candidate no doubt has supporters who are homophobic, no other Dem candidate besides Obama invited the “poster boy for the African-American ‘ex-gay'” movement to host and perform at a major campaign rally. No other Dem candidate besides Obama, despite being begged by supporters, Black and white, gay and nongay, to cancel that invitation to the “poster boy for the African-American ‘ex-gay'” movement, refused while arrogantly talking down to us; arrogantly tried to convince us it would be a form of healthy “dialogue.” No other Dem candidate besides Obama then allowed the “poster boy for the African-American ‘ex-gay'” movement to defend and promote that homohating movement at a major campaign rally AND CONTINUES TO DEFEND THE CHAIN OF EVENTS TODAY!
No other Dem candidate besides Obama so DOESN’T GET IT about our people—in addition to not getting how the federal government works. He could no more “make absolutely certain that all federal laws pertaining to married couples [pertain to] same-sex couples who have civil unions” on his own than he could stop the earth from rotating.
NEVERTHELESS, he is still better than any Repug, and while I could now never support him in the primaries, if he gets on the general election ticket we must vote for him. HE can learn; no Repug can for they have only shown they go BACKWARDS in their positions on gay equality not forward.
Jack Jett
Dawster is so right on when he says “Andrew S. is like a little barking chihuahua.”
I don’t give a shit what Sullivan or his sistah wannabe Chrissy Crain has to say.
If I am not mistaken, Sullivan supported the war in Iraq so his track record sucks.
Sullivan is like the Rev Al Sharpton for gays.
He is out dated, too old, and has his head so far up the right wings ass that he can’t smell the shit on his face.
We need leaders like Pam Spaulding, Larry Kramer,
Mike Rogers, and others.
Jack Jett
thegayrecluse
Andrew Sullivan is severely flawed, particularly when he resorts to knee-jerk name-calling (using “left” or “liberal” as if these are pejorative terms) or when he’s nostalgic about Reagan:
http://thegayrecluse.com/2007/10/30/on-how-you-cant-have-bush-without-reagan/
But occasionally he says some valid things that I think resonate with those of us who are not so eager to be associated with any particular “party line” given that both parties have pretty dismal records in the gay-rights department:
http://thegayrecluse.com/2007/11/10/on-andrew-sullivans-apt-dismissal-of-the-notion-of-an-lbgt-community/
But on the whole, I totally agree with the notion that there’s no way in hell AS is going to make one bit of difference to this election, which should make it that much easier to laugh at his inane stupidities. Ultimately he’s entertainment, which I think he understands on some level (and why he makes no attempt to reconcile the maddening inconsistencies of his opinions).
I also love the “Bootstrapping AS Blog” at:
http://bootstrappingas.blogspot.com/
The theme is “I love reading Andrew’s blog, but I find it hard to be a passive listener,” which pretty much sums it up, I think.
leomoore
I’ve listened to and read Sullivan’s reasonings and rationalisations for a number of years. His thinking is frequently muddled and his logic circular. He thinks because he’s gay, he understands all things gay. He believes that because he’s HIV positive he can represent all of us who are. Sullivan has a blind spot when it comes to understanding he doesn’t know everything about being a gay person in a world where being gay is often challenging. If he was consistent with his image of himself as a libertarian, he would be more inclined to Ron Paul.
So far this primary campaigning has been a monumental waste of time and money. It provides forums and employment for people like Sullivan, but little else. The real decision time for me will be next summer.
Jack Jett
Very well put leomoore.
Andrew Sullivan represents Andrew Sullivan and I am not sure what that is really worth.
Jack Jett
B
I have absolutely nothing against homos, heck no I love everybody–you know, love the sinner, hate the sin.
It’s God that hates homos. There now, don’t you feel better.
The Enemy
How friggin dare anyone out there make fun of Andrew Sullivan, after all he has been through. He lost his looks, he got married. he’s got two friggin dogs. His President turned out to be a user, a cheater, and now he’s trying to promote his new book . All you people care about is…readers and wasting time reading. HE’S A HUMAN! What you don’t realize is that Andrew is making all this money and all you do is write a bunch of crap about him.
She hasn’t performed well in years.
His book is called “THE CONSERVATIVE SOUL†for a reason, because all you people want is MORE MORE MORE MORE MORE OF HIS SOUL. LEAVE HIM ALONE! You are lucky he even writes for you BASTARDS! LEEEAVE ANDREW ALLLLLONE!…..Please. “At Your Own Risk” talked about ” Friends” and said if Andrew was a “Friend of the Gayz” he would’ve called Obama out no matter what. Speaking of friends, when is it friendly to publicly bash someone who is going through a hard time? Leave Andy Alone, Please… Leave Andrew Sullivan alone…right now….I mean it. Anyone that has a problem with him you deal with me, because he is not well right now. leave him alone…
Dawster
if god hates homos, shouldn’t he then come down here and speak for himself?
i need a little more clarification other than a 2000 year old book that was written by people who thought the world was flat and the sun moved around the earth
over the years “god’s word” has been changed and manipulated according to man. i’m not going to believe that god hates anything until he tells me himself.
and while he’s at it, he might want to clarify the “premarital sex” and “gluttony” issues as well, because we’re kinda throwing those out the window as well….
GEM
“Obama believes homosexuality as a choice is a legitimate option, he believes that queers as an abomination is a legitimate option and it’s clear that Obama will say and do whatever it takes to cleave off a percentage of votes from the naive and inattentive among Evangelicals, queers and any other potential voter base. And with influencers like Andrew Sullivan and Rev. Donnie McClurkin beside and behind him, Obama may just succeed in this strategy.”
Where in the world are these people getting this stuff?? That’s a plain fabrication.
I saw the entire Meet the Press interview and when asked if he thought homosexuality were a choice, Obama clearly said “No” (no waffling), then proceeded to say the quote Andrew Sullivan published. Also, I was curious about the Donnie McClurkin thing, so I went looking for it on the web. I read his statements from the event, and frankly he didn’t sound hate filled to me. He wasn’t bashing anyone, as far as I could tell…He sounded like he was focusing on love (an overlooked Christian principle) and was telling people of his own experience and what his conclusions were. I can see where it would be a real sticky subject to gay people, feeling that their truth is invalidated, but to us straight folks, we’re a little more unbiased. It seems these “riskers” are doing more to promote hate and division than anything else. Too bad. I am a straight female and I dearly love all of my gay and lesbian friends, and will never pretend to understand what it would mean to be lesbian. However, I support civil unions for both gay and non-gay couples (letting marriages of both gay and non-gay be recognized by churches), which would level the playing field, considering there are a growing number of athiests out there anyway, and that would certainly facilitate ‘separation of church and state’.
It’s going to be awhile before our country is able to embrace everyone without worrying about silliness like their sexual preference, but I guess we have to keep working towards that…
Leland Frances
Thanks for the love, GEM, but you had your selective perception specs on if you think McClurkin is all about love himself. He told the audience in South Carolina that “God delivered me from homosexuality.” That’s the kind of rhetoric one applies to cancer or alcoholism. Well, thanks, but no one needs “delivered” from being gay.
At the same time, I don’t believe Obama believes the same but his elevation of McClurkin tells people who do believe like the singer that it’s okay; just an acceptable difference of opinion the way one person likes apples but another person prefers oranges. Pay it no mind. Bullfuckingshit!
Bill Perdue
Andrew Sullivan, like John Aravosis and other sordid reactionaries in the extreme right of the GLBT community were eager supporters of Barney Franks Democratic version of a toothless ENDA. Frank proposed his gutted ENDA in a slick maneuver worthy of Bill Clinton himself to garner money and support from gullible GLBT folk AND bigoted business for his planned Senatorial campaign. To our credit, only an insignificant minority of the GLBT community supported Frank.
Sullivan, like most of Franks supporters, continue to find the swamp of Democrat and Republican bipartisan support for antigay politics, union busting and support for the war in Iraq appealing.
Sullivan for his part is enamored with Obama whose ‘christian crusade’ tactics is pandering to bigotry. Others support Clinton who in spite of what she says also panders to bigots. The difference is she’s much better at it than Obama; she was trained by Bill Clinton, who singed into law bigoted bills like DOMA and DADT and who says that samesex marriage is the ‘kiss of death’ for Democrats.
Perhaps that explains why all three major Democratic candidates and all three Republican candidates continue to pander to bigots with their pigheaded opposition to same sex marriage.
The GLBT right wings never-ending love fest with the Democrat and Republican policies of war, bigotry and union busting is based on their profound ignorance of political reality. They think that the events that made Katrina a racist nightmare and an exercise in union busting are an exception; they’re not, they’re the rule. They naively hope that the Democrats are going to end the war in Iraq even though they always vote funds and support resolutions for it and refuse to commit to immediate withdrawal. The think that the infantile theory of defeating bigotry by ‘baby steps†is real.
Every morning these rightists get up, put on their blinkers and repeat their mantra “The USA is my one true home; it’s a peoples democracy; my vote counts as much as Rockefellers.†Then they sweep out their log cabins and get on with the day.
Their paytriotic defense of American values leads them deeper and deeper into the swamp of twin party politics and on the way they make use of the traditional tactics of the twin parties.
They spin. According to gay.com and bloggers like ProfVP, Bill Clintons bigoted support of the bigot law DOMA was the real thing, i.e., it was a genuine expression of his and the Democrats and Republicans bigotry. It had nothing to do with a threatened constitutional amendment. No constitutional amendment was proposed until years later. The fact is that he and the Democrats who voted overwhelmingly for DOMA and DADT did to pander to bigots, just as Obama and Hillary Clinton do today. These right wingers and their parties refuse to consider a constitutional amendment nullifying the bigoted state laws and constitutional amendment that the Democrats DOMA set in motion.
And they use xenophobia, bigotry and red baiting in a pathetic attempt to discredit their leftwing wing opponents. And it helpd them pretend they’re not an isolated, antiquated minority. Because they’re not going to be invited when as the NLGTF says “… starting right now we are going to pick up where we were six weeks ago — namely, working to pass into law in 2009 the ENDA our entire community wants and deserves.â€
But it is entertaining is to see them snipe at each other as they resolve their petty squabble over who’s who in the American Values pecking order.
hells kitchen guy
Jack Jett: Remember when Andy got all wet under his bearskin at George Bush’s basket peeking out from his GI Joe drag on the Battleship Lincoln during “Mission Accomplished”? seriously.
Check out Charles Kaiser’s blog about sullivan. He rips him a new arsehole – exposes him as a no-nothing blowhard who never does any original reporting.
Leland Frances
Ah, Comrade Perdue, the human buzz phrase assembly line clocks in as predictably as anal warts come back. Everyday he jostles from his ideological coma on a homespun mat on the floor of his geodesic dome near Walden pond and jacks off in front of his wall mural of Stalin while singing L’Internationale. Then, having consumed his hand-thrown ceramic bowl of organic thistles, his Tourette’s kicks in and he starts stuttering and spitting about how “toothless” ENDA is despite his using Ts not being included in it as another excuse to demonize Dems in the name of Holy Socialism for, let me guess, the 8000th time.
And, like shit against the wall, he keeps throwing his naked lies at us, hoping one will finally stick while they always stink. “To our credit, only an insignificant minority of the GLBT community supported Frank.” Liar, liar, anus on fire!
Tell us less what you’re against, please, Commissar, and something you’re for—other than the forced destruction of democracy in the name of “worker’s rights,” of course. Thanks.
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Andrew is a story of contradictions. He is also the most universal minority person of celebrity status whom I can think of.
Andrew is a British subject of Irish Roman Catholic belief who attended Oxford and was a Tory and yes, gay – this principally in a nation where working class Labourite Irish Catholics are not necessarily prominent in a nation of Anglo-Saxons, Scots, Cornish, and Welsh citizens where the Official State Religions are Anglican in England, and Wales and Presyterian in Scotland.
Andrew comes to the US, abjures his UK citizenship, and becomes a leading gay Tory voice here, after going to Harvard to earn a PhD.
I find his defence of Obama on recent issues with down-low and homophobic issues in the black community interesting to contemplate. After listening to the premises, as I often do in his blog, I come to rather diametrically different conclusions where outcomes are concerned.
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Whose picture excites your masturbatory fantases, Leland Frances, ….probably Ernst Roehm with his boys…whom Shirer referred to as some of the best looking boys in Europe…..fascists in jackboots goosestepping and giving fascist salutes…are you there yet…..??????
Bill Perdue’s views are not at all as militant or reactionary as yours. I also find nothing Christian in your views either. Oh, I forgot, you have very definite and negative views on Christianity and other faith systems, eh…?
matt123
I don’t believe Obama believes the same but his elevation of McClurkin tells people who do believe like the singer that it’s okay; just an acceptable difference of opinion the way one person likes apples but another person prefers oranges.
A gay on Findbilover.com
Rt. Rev. Dr. RES
Bill Perdue’s thoughtful and insightful exposition of the right wing LGB activists is spot on! This includes the usual suspects on this blog who can only hurl ad hominems and illogical epithets. The Resident Vulgarist indeed, and his most vulgar commentary aren’t “swear words.”