NFL wide receiver (tee-hee) for the Philadelphia Eagles DeSean Jackson made an appearance on the June 30th episode of the Sirius XM Shade 45 radio program The All Out Show with Rude Jude and Lord Sear. During the show, DeSean took a call from Troy in Tennessee who asked if DeSean “had his dick knocked in the dirt.” It’s not clear whether DeSean thought having his “dick knocked in the dirt” involved gay sex or the more accurate slang meaning of “getting beat down.” But either way, he replied, “What type of question is that? Say ‘no homo’, gay-ass. Faggot.”
Welcome to the athletic haters club, DeSean. We look forward to seeing your public apology and your It Gets Better video.
Victor
I’m really glad you guys are up and running again. Those few weeks without you were miserable.
jason
DeSean Jackson has “ugly black man syndrome”. This is a common affliction of black men. It is characterized by a need to publicly refute any suggestion that one might be anything other than 100% heterosexual.
Of course, this syndrome is not unique to black men. However, it is more common in black men than white men in my opinion.
Darsco76
@Fitz: That comment you just made was VERY lowbrow! I am a blk man & we have it VERY hard! being gay I have it hard. Y ou just reminded me why i am blk 1st & gay 2nd. Thanks for giving black racist homophobes more ammo IDIOT!
Aiden
@Fitz: And I could guarantee you wouldn’t use it on anyone but yourself.
jason
Black men are an essential part of the GLBT movement. My criticism is of the cultural backwardness of black culture as a whole. It is a culture that is oppressive to black men themselves.
Black gay and bisexual men are being oppressed by their own culture – this is the point I’m trying to make.
TheRealMannequinAdam
@Fitz: Though I do not agree with your comment, it did make me LOL.
Jakey
Update from the linked article: “We spoke with ‘Rude’ Jude from the All Out Show, who said that he hopes Jackson doesn’t apologize—that Jackson was bantering with the callers, ‘is a hood dude,’ and for ‘hood cats, the worst thing you can call someone is a bitch or a faggot. I don’t think he’s homophobic. He’s joking.'”
That is fucking weak. How can someone be so dense that they just contradict themselves comepletely from one sentence to the next?
Darsco76
@TheRealMannequinAdam: you are a specialist on minorities huh? sorta like archie bunker lol
faggot is used in “certain circles” as slang for softie,punk, that sort of thing. It is NOT acceptable to use but ppl use it the same way some white & latino kids use the N word. I’m not saying it’s ok but don’t address ignorance with more ignorance. thats just stupid lol
Adman
I feel better knowing the tortured existence this guy leads being harangued by his false masculinity all the time. He doesn’t know if he’s supposed to be a a man or a monster, and I like it that way. Especially the part where he tries to create a “dominant” social dynamic with any other random man using his toddler age homo hate he learned from his wise elders and “friends” in the community. Maybe soon he’ll get something knocked in the dirt he needs to keep breathing. Psychosis is just around the corner for a “hood” guy like this at any time. Excellent; except women and children, get him a stigmatizing marker of some kind that will stick soon, OK? Maybe do a date rape sting and put it on YouTube or some such, you know? For your own good, and probably his, (if “good” were something this arrested child could ever understand anyway).
McMike
Is it just me or have all the homophobic male “celebrity” headlines consisted of black men?
I’m sorry but if there was any segment of any race which was the gayest of them all it would be black men and it figures they’re trying to cover what’s happening with their homophobia. It’s just sad none of these men have obviously met Karma because she tends to be kinda bitchy and it’ll be impossible to feel any kind of empathy when someone starts hurling certain derogatory comments their way.
Timothy Williams
@ Adman
Exactly!
I think its very important to understand that this type of pathology is indicative of a plethora of other “hood dude” behaviors; misogyny, spousal abuse, parental neglect. More broadly I’m wondering what the LGBT community can do to create coalitions with the other victim’s of “hood dudes”; perhaps even doing something to save “hood dudes” from themselves. This man will go to prison the moment his fame can’t protect him. Had he not known how to play with a ball he would be thrown away already. Its a sad commentary on the socio-economic promise of America- so many have been left behind. What I’m sure of however is that anecdotal racism is not going to help the cause… And those of you talking about ropes and the like are full of it. If you’re really going to be a vigilante then go for it, but internet bravado is pathetic and useless.
merle
Relax, in a few short years he will be sitting alone in a room somewhere suffering from early dementia due to head trauma. Karma plays funny tricks sometimes.
Gay Veteran
How can I focus on this guys ignorance/homophobia when there’s so many ignorant and racist comments being made in the comment section.
Gay Veteran
@Fitz
Do you know how ignorant you sound when you bring up having a rope in the back of your truck, you’re no different from the idiot in the article. Get help.
Queer Supremacist
He does realize that he holds the same core beliefs as the Ku Klux Klan, right? Right…?
If he’s a “hood dude” that’s the best argument I’ve ever heard for gentrification.
markie
so a question for DeSaun:
you think about it alot?..like in the locker room, or laying in bed at night, or when you see a hot dick…stupid paranoid closet case.
xjt
Why aren’t black leaders (like OBAMA) seriously addressing the rampant homophobia among blacks? It’s especially appalling coming from a group that has been so stigmatized themselves.
Spike
The defend it cause in the “hood” its the worst thing you can call someone. So does that mean on Wall Street its okay to call someonne a nigger cause its the worst thing someone call someone else? Again, if people are going to use disclaimers on using Faggot then other words are certainly fair play.
alan Balehead
Grow lives already!!! Everybody says the wrong words sometimes…
christopher di spirito
@xjt: Because Barry is a coward. He jumped on the “It Gets Better” campaign months after everyone else. Barry is the only person in history to “evolve” backward and now opposes marriage equality.
Leroy Laflamme
What kind of mother calls her son DeSean?
Jakey
God damn, commenters, stop acting like this guy speaks for all black people, or even all black people from the hood. You are not helping.
jason
DeSean Jackson will probably end up issuing an apology – possibly written by his agent – with the words “I’ve got gay friends” attached. Note how the homophobes always add this line. I call them friends of convenience. Of course, none of these homophobes want to concede to being gay themselves. It’s always “I’ve got gay friends”.
Darsco76
@xjt: President Obama is the leader of the ENTIRE country not just black ppl. That statement has a tinge of racism lol it really truly does.
This guy desean is JUST a dumb jock! These guys use gay to mean punk or softie. but a lot of you know that. Criticize Desean NOT all black ppl. trust me, black men who are gay have it REALLY tough! around whites, gay & not gay, I am the BIG, SCARY Black guy,@ 5’7 155, im far from that & i am smiling even wen i’m sad lol around black ppl, I am the nasty dirty fag who wants to convert all young boys!
Desean is just still mad at the gay boy who saw his peepee when they were teens and said, thats it!?! lol
Aiden
@TheRealMannequinAdam: Of course you did and of course you do.
Aiden
@xjt: Because we’re all individuals and can’t expect to be responsible for what every black person does.Why is it that when someone who isn’t white does something wrong it’s the responsibility of their entire race?
tjr101
Some of the comments on this thread just goes to show the ignorance of many in failing to see past an individual’s skin color. Mean while White Sox player Gordon Beckham calls Kansas City Royals player Chris Getz gay and no mention of it here. Oh, Gordon Beckam is white!
jason
Black gays are oppressed by their own people. It’s a simple fact. Not only does a black gay person have to put up with racism in general, he also has to put up with the homophobia of his black brothers.
Don Cornelius
Black said this, black did that, black, black, black. Get over the anger and just curse them to hell, wish for their extermination & other homophobes or deportion to an remote island.
If assuming most black are homophobes then simply boycott them, avoid them in your daily life, at work, when socializing etc.
TheRealMannequinAdam
@Aiden: Quit trying to start shit.
Kev C
It’s kind of hard to understand what anyone is saying. Not exactly Yale Debating Team.
Paul Lynde
Tee Hee. Yuggity yugity De Sean. Nowhatumsayin/
Joey O'H
What is it with the surge of low life ghetto boys making gay slurs? I am sick and tired of it! Tracy Morgan, he has redeemed himself, and I really don’t think he meant harm. But we have girl beater Chris Brown and now Jackson.
What these losers appreciate the “N” word making a comeback, using it and then saying, “I was only joking?” That seems to be the cop out when anyone in the media makes a gay slur… Oh, I didn’t mean it. Okay, what did you mean?
I live in the Philly area, if there is a football season, I am routing that Jackson’s legs get broke by an opposing team member. He’s a piece of shit.
Mr. Amusement
I think the racism in these comments says plenty about the bubble in which many white gay men live. Instead of seeing these people as individuals or athletes, racist commenters focus on their race. Terms such as “ghetto boys” or “ugly black men syndrome” say much about the bigotry of commenters.
Instead of being appalled at the DeSean, the focus shifts to all blacks. “Black leaders” are supposed to educate black people. President Obama is supposed to educate black people.
First, where are the white leaders educating all white people? Do whites go to meetings where their “white leaders” teach them tolerance and love? If so, how does that explain the fact that the overwhelming political and social movement for anti-gay laws is headed by white Americans? Are the GOP members in Minnesota who are trying to pass an anti-gay marriage amendent black? No. Focus on the Family? Who runs it? Who runs the Church of the Latter Day Saints? Remember them? The church that pumped millions into the Prop 8 campaign?
Second, President Obama is not a black leader. He’s the leader of all Americans and the Free World. That said, Obama has made plenty of pro-gay statements and worked to overturn anti-gay legislation designed and put in place by, wait for it, white Americans to oppress gays.
Third, from Al Sharpton to Julian Bond to Deval Patrick to Maxine Waters to Coretta Scott King to Martin Luther King, there have been and are plenty of African-Americans who have stood up for the rights of gays.
Fourth, all this talk about how black gays are victims of homophobia by other blacks is true. Just as it is also true that white gays are victims of homophobia by other whites is true. Similarly, Chinese, Arab, Latino, and Japanese gays face discrimination from their straight “racial” peers.
It’s amazing how some white gay men still can’t get over their own racism. They refuse to see that homophobia is just as widespread amongst straight whites as it is within other groups. The fact that the vast majority of homophobia in the U.S. is practiced and used as a political weapon by other whites seems to make no difference.
In summary, “black people” are INDIVIDUALS. There is no secret meeting or public meeting where they all get together to hear the words of their leaders.
Kent
Aren’t most athletes like him on the DL anyway?
Ray Kwok
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J.
@Don Cornelius: People do that. And then are called racist. I don’t wanna be around people like this thug. Then, people like you come along calling me and everyone else “racist” becuse we choose to ignore them. Which is the best solution???
Joey O'H
I don’t see anti-gay comments from black people as a representative to all black people. However, most of the anti-comments, slurs are coming from black men. Angry black men.
There is homophobia in every race, it’s just more and more vocal coming from black men, at the moment.
And it’s not President Obama’s responsibilty to educate black people. If that were the case, he could very well educate white people as well. After all, he is half white. It’s the parents of these men… their parent’s responsiblity or lack there of. Perhaps that says something about their upbringing, their lack of positive role models, such as their own parents shortcomings in parenting skills.
Dave
I’ve noticed that some racist comments have been removed from this thread; Queerty obviously wasn’t intended to be a forum for the expression of hatred, and I’m glad that such comments are deleteed. I’ve also noticed that some comments that _might be construed as racist_ have been removed from this thread–and that’s a shame, because it slams the door on conversations that are necessary and very worthwhile. What (or who) is being protected by such action?
JoeyO'H
Jackson has since issued an apology. Too late. I no longer accept these remarks from these thugs to be followed by a “I’m sorry.” He meant what he said. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t have said it. Enough is enough!
Jackson has no class!
Abirdwillingtobeitself
As rough as it is being white and gay in America, it’s more rough being black and male. Black men want to protect their own masculinity for obvious reasons, and one way to do that is for an athlete like DeSean to use gay slurs. I can’t really get angry about it. But I do get angry when white gay people call DeSean a “thug” etc. in response.
Ganondorf
“it’s more rough being black and male”
How is that? Prove that this isn’t an article of faith of yours.
Queer Supremacist
The Uncle Tomism of those defending DoucheSean is sickening, and so is their using alleged racism as a red herring to distract from real homophobia. No one talks about “white homophobia” because there was no systematic targeting of white people for discrimination for hundreds of years in this country, thus they can’t hide behind that and call it racist. No wonder they get off with just a slap on the wrist with just a phony, deceptively worded apology. They know they’ll have the Uncle Toms around to defend them. You’re enabling them.
If Obama had any intention of educating anyone, black or white, about homophobia, he would have done so by now.
Dave
@Abirdwillingtobeitself: Really? Are we **really** supposed to play the “who has it worse” game? Again? Still? In 2011??
Vomit.
Personally, I’m not only sick of that line of thinking, I refuse to take it seriously for a split second. Since when do the rules for acceptable behavior depend on excuses, real or imagined? That’s not just, and it’s not going to be accepted by anyone with a single working neuron.
I don’t hurl hateful slurs your way, you don’t hurl them my way, and together we deplore those who chose to ignore such simple rules of class and human dignity. THAT is justice. And excuses, as always, are simply BS.
Tackel
@ Mr Amusement great points.
This article should to titled, Another Day Annoter post by “Daniel Villarreal” regarding a black male using a gay slur. Like Black men are the only ones who use gay slurs. What is this writers obission with the constant reporting of Black men, and leaving out others who also use gay slurs?? It’s not that Black men use it more than others. But when the constant focus is on Black men it gives the impression they they are using the slur more than others. This writer made a racial slur about a month ago using the term
(Jungle Fever) then backed tracked and took the words down when he was called on it.
Villarreal sounds like a Hispanic surname to me. I find it hard to believe there are no Hispanics or others using gay slurs.This writer will probably never report a Hispanic using a gay slur because he knows the same vile racist statments directed toward blacks will be directed that way. It seems this writer cherry picks . Where is the post about the two Hockie players and the major league baseball manager who were not black, who also used the slur?? I don’t mind people being called on bigotry. But be fare about it and report on all who are doing it. All the evil that that is coming on here, this writer is fanning the flames and is somewhat responsible. This writer obviously has some type of prejudice towards Black men that I’m sure he will deny.
jason
Black men should not be a protected species. In fact, nobody should be a protected species.
I get so irritated when the PC crowd says that you shouldn’t criticize a black person simply because he’s black. This is a recipe for disaster. It will result in our rights being taken away from us.
One of my theories about homophobia in today’s black youth is that young blacks haven’t had to march in civil rights movements like their fathers and grandfathers before them. They don’t understand the importance of civil rights and civic fairness in the way their ancestors did. They’re ignorant of the dangers of prejudice.
It is exceedingly important that, when criticizing homophobia, we don’t shirk from criticizing anybody and everybody regardless of the color of their skin.
Kirk212
I am so sick of minorities whining! Here’s a thought – work hard, take care of yourself, stand up fro your self and treat others how you wish to be treated, but mainly, QUIT acting the perpetual victim and making excuses for bad behavior. Others might start respecting you at that point!
Gay Veteran
@jason: Yes criticize everyone for their homophobia but not their race. This man’s race should not be a factor. Homophobia is not a black things, it’s a people thing. I don’t know why anyone brought up races… address the homophobia not the person’s skin color.
Gay Veteran
@Mr. Amusement: THANK YOU!!!
Your comment was the most intelligent thing posted… Thanks
Gay Veteran
@Kirk212: How does your comment have anything to do with this article? It doesn’t. Go Away Troll
Kev C
Most sports are homophobic. The fans are bigots. The players are bigots. The corporations and schools are bigots. Fining these jocks 10’s of thousands of dollars has had no effect on their homophobic behavior. It’s time that they are fired or the teams are boycotted.
An Ella Fan
@Mr. Amusement: Right on and well said, Mr. Amusement. Your post is like an oasis in a “stupid” desert.
Nobody likes to throw around the “r’ word – but what else do you call it when some white gays never take time to consider that “the overwhelming political and social movement for anti-gay laws is headed by white Americans….”
Aiden
@TheRealMannequinAdam: I don’t have to, every comment you make is an attack on someone.
TheRealMannequinAdam
@Aiden: No one was attacked. Hush, child.
Kev C
@Abirdwillingtobeitself: Compared to white gays, very few black gays are called faggot or gaybashed. If they were, they’d be complaining about homophobia instead of racism all the time. And I’ll bet most of them have never been called the N* word or attacked for being black either.
ewe
oh tsk tsk. poor little pretty boy is so paranoid.
Aiden
@TheRealMannequinAdam: No, you just thought it was funny that someone wanted to lynch a black person. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. And your the last person that should be calling anyone a child.
TheRealMannequinAdam
@Aiden: I don’t find lynching funny at all. I just found the comment funny (actually, only the last part of that comment, which had nothing to do with lynching). So, *you’re* jumping to conclusions when you don’t know the case, child.
An Ella Fan
@christopher di spirito:
Quote: “Because Barry is a coward. He jumped on the “It Gets Better” campaign months after everyone else. Barry is the only person in history to “evolve” backward and now opposes marriage equality”
Christopher, whenever Obama’s name is mentioned, off you go and facts be damned.
It’s like Pavlov’s dogs. Stimulus and wet-mouthed response.
In agreeing with an equally inane poster, you accuse Obama of being a coward because in your overly obsessed and misguided mind he hasn’t seriously addressed the rampant homophobia in the black community – like it isn’t just as virulent and definitely more effective in the white community.
Your full of it. In 2008, Obama addressed the congregation at Atlanta’s Ebenezer Baptist Church. You may have heard of the place.
Those of us watching him on the telly were awe-inspired when he took black people to task about homophobia:
“For most of this country’s history, we in the African-American community have been at the receiving end of man’s inhumanity to man. And all of us understand intimately the insidious role that race still sometimes plays – on the job, in the schools, in our health care system, and in our criminal justice system.
And yet, if we are honest with ourselves, we must admit that none of our hands are entirely clean. If we’re honest with ourselves, we’ll acknowledge that our own community has not always been true to King’s vision of a beloved community.
We have scorned our gay brothers and sisters instead of embracing them. The scourge of anti-Semitism has, at times, revealed itself in our community. For too long, some of us have seen immigrants as competitors for jobs instead of companions in the fight for opportunity.
Every day, our politics fuels and exploits this kind of division across all races and regions; across gender and party. It is played out on television. It is sensationalized by the media. And last week, it even crept into the campaign for President, with charges and counter-charges that served to obscure the issues instead of illuminating the critical choices we face as a nation.”
The words of a coward, spoken on a topic and in a place that real cowards would not tread.
He has spoken out on black homophobia to black groups on several occasions.
When facts, and not banshee wailing, start to matter to you, your opinion might actually start to mean something….
An Ella Fan
@Kirk212:
Quote: “I am so sick of minorities whining! Here’s a thought – work hard, take care of yourself, stand up fro your self and treat others how you wish to be treated, but mainly, QUIT acting the perpetual victim and making excuses for bad behavior. Others might start respecting you at that point!”
The irony of your post is probably far too subtle for you to see it. But your words directed at some whiny minority are the same words that some straights level at gay people – who are also a minority…
jon
black culture vs gay culture THAT IS THE PROBLEM! There are a bunch of WEAK men in black communities so to make themselves feel better SOME black people call things gay. Yes it happens in many communities, but it’s very strong for people of color.
jon
My comments above are more a struggle in downtrodden areas and the culture that expands past these areas. It’s our job as fellow citizens to embrace all people and the positive things about them. Sorry that came over harsh. I’m recognizing how hard it is for people being black and gay, due to a culture that has many broken families which a lot of the time is not anyone’s fault.
Abirdwillingtobeitself
@Dave: No, I don’t think it’s about comparing scars between communities. I just wanted to provide some perspective.
Abirdwillingtobeitself
@Kev C: Black people don’t have to get *attacked* in order to have something to complain about. Getting attacked is a pretty extreme situation, and discrimination is often more subtle than that. Discrimination at school, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, are still systemic problems. I don’t know why you think black people rarely get gaybashed. If it’s only because you personally don’t hear black people talk about it, maybe you just aren’t listening to the gay black people. James Baldwin for one included situations of gaybashing in his novels.
jason
Gay Veteran,
The reason I bring up color is because racial-cultural factors are relevant to the issue of homophobia. I also bring it up because black people are the first to use the word “black” to describe themselves and their culture. Black people use the world black to promote themselves and to market themselves. You see this in the music industry, for instance. Keep in mind that the word “black” is not a slur and, therefore, I am not using a slur when I use the word.
Of course, I agree that individual black people can be great people and true advocates for fairness and decency in society. I am a great fan of these people. I support them. I would have them as my neighbors in a New York minute. I would never ever discriminate against a black person on the basis of prejudice.
Keep in mind what I said before: black gay people are the victims of a multitude of oppressions: racism from the general community and homophobia from the general community as well as from within their own community.
What I would like to see is some activism on the part of black gay people who are prepared to challenge not only homophobia in general but also homophobia from within their own community.
Gay Veteran
@jason: You don’t have a valid argument so it’s best you just stop while you’re behind. Homophobia exist in all races. There are plenty of black activist fighting the cause, just the media tends not to cover these activist because they’re black(and not white i.e. Dan Savage) doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
“I also bring it up because black people are the first to use the word “black” to describe themselves and their culture. Black people use the world black to promote themselves and to market themselves.” This is a generalization and not based on facts.
It’s not your place to call out the black community.. when you obviously know nothing about the black community. Call out homophobia but leave that persons race out of it because it the person was white(i.e. Blake Shelton, Jeremy Shockey, or Eminem) no one calls out the white community.. no one ask whites to step up and do more to stop homophobia in their community. Considering that whites have more power and are the ones leading the anti-gay movement, maybe you should call out the white community to do more to stop the homophobia with the white community.
Call out the homophobia and leave race out of it because it has absolutely nothing to do with this article/situation.
Kev C
@Abirdwillingtobeitself: Oh I’m listening but James Baldwin novels? How about YOU tell me about being gay bashed. It’s not an extreme situation. It happens every day in this country. It’s happened to me most of my adult life, as well as the employment discrimination and all that shit. I’m listening.
Kirk212
@An Ella Fan: Actually my comment was directed at all people including our own gay community, regardless of color.
Abirdwillingtobeitself
@Kev C: I see. By attacked, I thought you meant physically, not verbally. As for telling you about it, I would tell you about it personally, but I’m not black, I’m just an ally.
Gay Veteran
@Kev C: We complain about BOTH because we experience both. I’ve experienced prejudice because of the color of my skin and because of my sexuality. Who are you to make a statement like this: “Compared to white gays, very few black gays are called faggot or gaybashed. If they were, they’d be complaining about homophobia instead of racism all the time. And I’ll bet most of them have never been called the N* word or attacked for being black either.” Stop making generalization.
Kev C
@Abirdwillingtobeitself: It sounds to me like you’re living the Life of Riley and complaining about stuff that happened in novels. Get back to me when you’ve gotten a few sticthes or broken bones.
TheRealMannequinAdam
@Gay Veteran: I actually found most of what Jason said there to be pretty valid and understandable. Sorry.
Abirdwillingtobeitself
@Kev C: What you mean by “Life of Riley” is lost on me, but no, I’m obviously not complaining about fiction. I think it’s strange you tell me to come back once I’ve been beat up for being me, when you’ve never been beat up for being black. If a person needs to be beat up to understand how bad things are for a minority, then it follows you could never understand how bad black people have it.
JoeyO'H
@Abirdwillingtobeitself:
Really? “Thug” bothers you? And you have it worse than I? You don’t know that. And yes, I will say it again, Jackson is a thug. Period.
JoeyO'H
@Abirdwillingtobeitself:
Are you serious? What it is with you? You have it worse than everyone else?
There is racism that goes on between all races, it’s not exclusive to blacks… You are out of touch with reality.
Abirdwillingtobeitself
Joey, as I already said, I’m not black, I’m an ally. That you think I would have to be black to care about racism against black people says a lot about you. Several of the comments were insulting, not just the word thug, but the reason that the word thug bothers me is because Jackson isn’t a thug, he’s an athlete. The insult is clearly a comment on his race, it has no relation to anything else about him but his race. Also, Jackson wasn’t the only person you insulted. You said “these thugs,” as if black people in general were thugs. Mr. Amusement was right in post 33, it’s important to see each black person as an individual. Racist thinking dies out when each person is seen for what he is, an individual.
An Ella Fan
@Kev C:
Quote: “Compared to white gays, very few black gays are called faggot or gaybashed. If they were, they’d be complaining about homophobia instead of racism all the time. And I’ll bet most of them have never been called the N* word or attacked for being black either.
More ignorant comments that are blatantly full of bias, generalizations, stereotypes – and who miserably fail to bring anything worthwhile to the discussion at hand.
Your spew says more about you then anything else.
Pathetic….
Kev C
@An Ella Fan: I spoke the truth. Is that a problem for ya? Truth .. what a concept. You should try it. Do you some good instead of that BS that you been spreading throughout this thread.
Gay Veteran
@Kev C: NO you spoke what you believe to be the truth.. you have no facts to back up your argument. Generalizations do not equal facts/truth
Abirdwillingtobeitself
@An Ella Fan: Racists never do understand the singular instance, and how it differs from the category. They think each instance is a walking category.
Danny
@Abirdwillingtobeitself:
“Several of the comments were insulting, not just the word thug, but the reason that the word thug bothers me is because Jackson isn’t a thug, he’s an athlete.”
Since when did being an athlete automatically preclude one from being a thug? I think we can all think of plenty of pro athletes that have exhibited thug behavior. Michael Vick, anyone? Can’t get much more thuggish than dog fighting.
Kev C
@Gay Veteran: I’m not the one making generalizations, you are. In fact, I do have the facts to make such a statement.
TanyaHyde
@TheRealMannequinAdam:
Quote: “@Gay Veteran: I actually found most of what Jason said there to be pretty valid and understandable. Sorry.”
Well dearie, that’s YOUR problem – isn’t it?
TanyaHyde
@Kev C:
Quote: @Gay Veteran: I’m not the one making generalizations, you are. In fact, I do have the facts to make such a statement.
Then why don’t you present them? Why does anyone have to prompt you to present what is indisputable to support your position?
TheRealMannequinAdam
@TanyaHyde: I don’t want to hear it.
TanyaHyde
@TheRealMannequinAdam: @TanyaHyde: I don’t want to hear it.
ROFLMAO!
Kev C
@TanyaHyde: I’m not the one with the credibility problem. Abirdwillingtobe isn’t even black and is citing 50 year old Baldwin novels as his source. I asked if anyone (other than myself) has had any experience with gay bashings or racial assaults. I’m listening.
Abirdwillingtobeitself
@Kev C: I think you should get out more, buddy. If somebody has to read a novel to know that gay black people have it shit bad in America, that person needs some help. I brought up Baldwin to someone who complained that black people don’t react against homophobia.
Ganondorf
@Abirdwillingtobeitself:
Yeah. However, it seems that the request that you provide PROOF for your claim that black men have it worse than gay “white” men (and gay is the only relevant trait vis a vis this post)
@Abirdwillingtobeitself:
So it is an article of faith of yours that black men experience more bigotry and prejudice than white gay men (and gay is the only relevant trait vis-a-vis this topic). This coming from a guy who thinks that furnishing evidence to support a belief/claim is “common”, and that the hallmark of “genius” is to dispense with such trappings of the great unwashed (in a scientific context, no less!). Who needs pedestrian evidence when you’ve got…genius?! Ha. Well well, it’s illegal in all states to discriminate against black men in terms of housing and employment, but not so with white gay men (or gay men, period, for that is the relevant trait, not “white,” to reiterate). You probably think, after you introduced the oppression special olympics (truly revolting–an attempted excuse or stay of execution for deplorably bigoted behavior), that it’s “inherently racist” for it to be requested that you prove what you say. Typical oppression theory garbage (self-justifying, question begging and every other informal logical fallacy you can come up with laces these types of thinky thoughts passed off as “theories”) thought. And I’ve got your attention. Don’t bother with more of your deep thoughts, as I won’t be responding. This comment section’s a shambles, and it’s not just the obvious racists who are responsible.
Gay Veteran
@Ganondorf: “This comment section’s a shambles, and it’s not just the obvious racists who are responsible.” You’re right, it’s people like YOU who aren’t so obviously racist who are also responsible.
Now I don’t agree with this oppression olympics that a lot of you guys partake in so I’m not going to really comment on it.. except I will point out that just because there are laws on the books that make discriminating against a person because of the color of their skin illegal, it doesn’t mean that type of discrimination no longer happens. Blacks can’t hide the color of their skin like some gay men can hide their sexual orientation.
But seriously you guys need to stop with this who has it worse debate, there’s no scientific(accurate) way to answer that question.
Also I love how you came after @Abirdwillingtobeitself: but didn’t say anything to @Kev C: who made a IGNORANT comment like this: “Compared to white gays, very few black gays are called faggot or gaybashed. If they were, they’d be complaining about homophobia instead of racism all the time. And I’ll bet most of them have never been called the N* word or attacked for being black either.”
Kev C
@Gay Veteran:”there’s no scientific(accurate) way to answer that question.”
Of course we can. It’s called research. Crime is reported and databased for the purpose of research. And I already know what the research will say. Black transgenders do face real discrimination and violence. Black gay men face less violence and discrimination that white gay men. Do the research.
Ganondorf
@Gay Veteran
Oh Def. I’m such a racist, and blah blah blah. Anyone who dares suggest that one come up with evidence to support a howler like, “black men have it worse, objectively, than ‘white’ gay men” (and I correct for white, as that’s simply not the relevant trait in question to assess the simple minded animus of racism vs. homophobia that has inspired so much of the excrement posted here) is a racist. Anyone who tries to address the virulent strain of homophobia that is so pervasive in the black community (just because black people, as a group, don’t have the social capital–as a result of racism–to enforce their bigotry that whites do, does not imply that homophobia isn’t a more serious problem amongst black americans than white americans) is a goddamn racist, right? Because one can’t ever assess group dynamics and trends without being racist according to the latest politically correct meme/religion.
It’s similar to the islamophobia screamheads. Anyone who dares criticize Islam and, as a group, its followers, is automatically labeled islamophobic by the unthinking borg of the left (and honestly, I never thought antisemitism would come from the left…and that the “right wing” would be at the vanguard fending off antisemitic trash. Up is down in the new world order). But it can’t be antisemitism, because it’s got a new name: antizionism. (And obviously, criticism of Israel isn’t automatically antisemitism, but there are so many antisemites using the cover of the so-called “antizionism” movement to distract from their jew hate that it’s hardly worthwhile to distinguish between them anymore). How come criticism of american policy isn’t classed antiamericanism (at least by intelligent observers), instead of simply criticism? Why the special word ‘antizionism’? Hmmmm….it’s because them jews are involved somewhere, somehow that it deserves a special term (not just antiisraelism, but antizionism), right? Anyway, it’s the same nonthink.
No one is denying that racism is a problem in the united states (it clearly is), but when it is used to silence sound criticism of group dynamics and trends (homophobia is homophobia, but some groups of people are more homophobic than others), then it becomes wishful thinking used as a weapon to prevent progress.
Gay Veteran
@Ganondorf: How many black people have you met to be able to say blacks are more homophobic than whites? 1? 5? 10?
It sounds like you’re doing the same thing that you criticize @Abirdwillingtobeitself: for…
Ganondorf
@Gay Veteran
I’m not going to provide the polling data on black democrats, because there are racists here and that would wrongfully empower them. But I don’t make idle statements.
TanyaHyde
@Kev C:
Quote: “And I already know what the research will say. Black transgenders do face real discrimination and violence. Black gay men face less violence and discrimination that white gay men. Do the research.”
Kev C you still have not provided researched facts regarding your earlier assertions:
“Quote: “Compared to white gays, very few black gays are called faggot or gaybashed. If they were, they’d be complaining about homophobia instead of racism all the time. And I’ll bet most of them have never been called the N* word or attacked for being black either.”
You claimed you had facts to support your claims, but so far you have not ponied up.
So again, if research supports your statements – which you clearly said it did…where is your proof?
Or, as Ella Fan said: “More ignorant comments that are blatantly full of bias, generalizations, stereotypes – and who miserably fail to bring anything worthwhile to the discussion at hand.”
Ball is in your court and has been for some time….
Kev C
@TanyaHyde: No, actually I’ve already proved my point. It’s not my fault if you don’t read newspapers or know what is happening in the world. I’m not living in the past or in fictional books or LIVING A LIE of denial and downlowness.
The problem is that black communities (and black countries) have demonized and scapegoated white gay males.
Who’s to blame for spreading AIDS?
white gay males
Who’s to blame for spreading social perversion and corrupting and molesting black children?
white gay males
Who’s to blame for racism?
white gay males
As a result of this hatred against white gay males, they are at a higher risk of violence in black communities and black countries. And violence and murders of white gay males have occurred in black communities and black countries.
TheRealMannequinAdam
@Ganondorf: Excellent and spot on.
TheRealMannequinAdam
@TanyaHyde: Me too.
TanyaHyde
@Ganondorf:
Quote: No one is denying that racism is a problem in the united states (it clearly is), but when it is used to silence sound criticism of group dynamics and trends (homophobia is homophobia, but some groups of people are more homophobic than others), then it becomes wishful thinking used as a weapon to prevent progress.”
I think the “but some groups of people are more homophobic than others” is the crux of the comments posted herein. If racism is a problem in the united states, then is it possible for members of the group most affected by racism to objectively have their behavior, attitudes and actions viewed without the influence of race?
One point that appears consistent is that white gay men do not see or make race an issue when whites make homophobic statements or attack gays and gay equality. There is a long list of white individuals and predominately white organizations who present much more of a challenge to gay progress – yet, the race of these perpetrators is a moot point. However, we can clearly see that among a portion of white gay men, the race card is flipped when a black homophobe spews stupidity.
So how does one determine which group is more homophobic? How do we measure? Is it the one whose members include the occasional comedian, rapper or sports figure making homophobic-related headlines? Or the one who – as the majority – has voted down every state ballot/initiative put before it regarding marriage equality?
How does one disconnect the racial aspect of one hateful group, yet at the same time highlight race in the homophobic other?
You appear to say that the accusation of racism may be or is used to silence sound criticism of group behavior. If that is true, how come the racial aspect of group behavior for one group is so much more under the microscope than the other?
I agree that race should not be used to silence justifiable criticism – but neither should it be reserved for one racial group and not others….
Abirdwillingtobeitself
Ganondorf, I don’t know why you put white in quotes. I think that’s strange, since a person with white skin is pretty clearly… white. I don’t know why you bothered making the comment at all only to say at the end that you won’t reply to me. Isn’t that self-justifying behavior, which you said I was engaging in? But I never brought up the fact that I have a very high IQ (which happened in another string… I don’t know why you brought it up here) in order to get out of posting evidence. This is my second time saying that I brought up the extent of discrimination against blacks for perspective, not to get into a who has it worse game. I think that game is what you want, because going any farther than making the assertion will drag me into it. You’ve been making a lot of bare assertions yourself, for example calling what I said a “howler” without further comment. I don’t believe that listing all of the instances in which you’ve used a logical fallacy gets us anywhere, so I won’t be tallying them up.
As to what Gay Veteran said, he didn’t say you’re a flaming racist, he just said you’re questionably racist, which is true. You misrepresented what he said, and that wasn’t fair. You apparently want me to post statistical evidence, but you won’t post statistical evidence to support your own claims. That’s not fair either.
A word about the PC mentality. It’s not clear to me what this is supposed to mean. If it means roughly something like colorblindness, then I don’t think Ganondorf understands which side is promoting the colorblind view. The black community doesn’t often think in those terms. As evidence, I could point to various black artists throughout the century who are comfortable maintaining their status as permanently separate. Langston Hughes didn’t talk about tribal drums in his poetry, or say that he was “black as the night is black” for nothing. Richard Wright didn’t say every black person in America had a Bigger Thomas in the back of his skull for nothing. I could point out that even Martin Luther King, who was as integrationist as it gets, more so than many white people, was comfortable with the denotative meaning of Black Power. I could cite the fact that there are still intellectuals like Molefi Asante who feel it’s important to have an African name. (He changed his name because he believed his birth name was a slave name.) Marxists talk about the “mystification” of subject peoples, but the black community has never been very mystified. If the PC mentality comes up at all, it’s not in the black community, it’s in the white liberal community. Personally, I’m a white liberal, and I can say that’s something we have to work on.
jason
Gay Veteran,
I criticize white people all the time. The reason I don’t use the word “white” is because whites don’t market themselves using the word “white”.
Kev C
@TanyaHyde: “So how does one determine which group is more homophobic? How do we measure? Is it the one whose members include the occasional comedian, rapper or sports figure making homophobic-related headlines? Or the one who – as the majority – has voted down every state ballot/initiative put before it regarding marriage equality?
How does one disconnect the racial aspect of one hateful group, yet at the same time highlight race in the homophobic other?
You appear to say that the accusation of racism may be or is used to silence sound criticism of group behavior. If that is true, how come the racial aspect of group behavior for one group is so much more under the microscope than the other?”
———–
Because calling people faggots is associated with violence and should be regarded as a threat. Threats and violence are more serious than discrimination, hence, more homophobic. And here you have celebrities, looked up to by fans, casually calling people faggots as if they’ve done it many times before. And then we have people who defend these celebrities solely because of their race, including black gays defending black homophobes by attacking and accussing white gays. And the fact that you are totally indifferent, almost sociopathic, to the safety and lives of white gays, is inexcusable.
Gay Veteran
@Kev C: Why is this a black gay vs. white gay? You really need to get a grasp on reality.
And I didn’t see many commenters defending this guys(or any of the other black guy that recently got in trouble for homophobia) actions, so I don’t know where that statement came from.
Kev C
@Gay Veteran: Was Desean fined or fired? Was Tracy Morgan? So someone is defending, excusing, downplaying. And maybe you didn’t notice the attacks on white critics but I did. Maybe you’re in the habit of not noticing or not caring because blaming critics takes the focus off the homophobe, just as this thread has been shifted away from Desean. We notice these things.
Gay Veteran
@Kev C: The attention was taken off of Desean because people like you decided to bring up the color of his skin instead of just focusing on his homophobic remarks. Also, was Jeremy Shockey ever punished? Was Eminem ever punished? How about Michael Richards or Mel GIbson? What’s you’re point?
Kev C
@Gay Veteran: Michael Richards lost his career and is doing stand-up in Thailand now. Mel Gibson should be totally shunned and is indefensible. Eminem has a lot of homophobic fans and everyone expects dirtbag rappers to be shocking, just as they expect guests on Howard Stern to be.
If it wasn’t for an offended gay man in the audience, Tracy Morgan would still be telling his homophobic jokes and getting laughs. How clueless does one have to be?
Hey, if my son was black or acted black …. (laughter)
An Ella Fan
@Kev C: White gays are hardly at the forefront in experiencing violence because of sexual orientation, otherwise known as bashed.
Wrap your small, and incorrect, mind around this:
27 murders of LGBTQ and HIV-affected people documented; the second highest yearly total ever recorded; Among those reporting, transgender people and people of color faced the most severe hate violence; Reports of violent crime increased 13% for LGBTQ and HIV-affected people
NATIONAL—The National Coalition of Anti-Violence Programs (NCAVP), in a national audio press conference today, released its report Hate Violence Against Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer and HIV-Affected Communities in the United States in 2010. NCAVP collected data concerning hate violence against lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer (LGBTQ) and HIV-affected people, from 17 anti-violence programs in 15 states across the country including: Alabama, Arizona, California, Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, New York, Ohio, Texas, Vermont and Wisconsin.
In 2010, NCAVP documented 27 anti-LGBTQ murders, the second highest yearly total ever recorded by the coalition. This is a 23% increase from the 22 people murdered in 2009.
70% of the 27 reported hate murder victims in 2010 were LGBTQ and HIV-affected people of color, which represented 44% of total survivors and victims. This reflects a disproportionate targeting of people of color for severe and deadly violence. As well, people of color were less likely to receive medical attention when they needed it and less likely to receive appropriate responses from the police.
Transgender women made up 44% of the 27 reported hate murders in 2010, while representing only 11% of total survivors and victims. As well, transgender people were more likely to have injuries as a result of attacks and less likely to receive medical care.
“This increase in murders signals a pattern of severe, ongoing violence against LGBTQ and HIV-affected communities,” said Jake Finney from L.A. Gay and Lesbian Center in Los Angeles, California. “Transgender individuals and people of color face multiple forms of discrimination on the basis of race, gender identity and other factors, which can make them more vulnerable to severe violence,” said Maria Carolina Morales from Community United Against Violence in San Francisco, California. “Additionally, the general public, law enforcement, and the media may be less inclined to address, prevent and respond to violence against these communities, making this violence seem invisible and ignored.”
Got argument, Kev C????