Sergeant Eric Holyfield’s launching a holy war on the Los Angeles Police Department! The copper accuses the department of discriminating against his religious beliefs after using a friend’s funeral to preach against the gays:
In a fall 2006 eulogy delivered at a fellow officer’s funeral, Sgt. Eric Holyfield, who also is a pastor, said homosexual acts were “sinful” and an “abomination” and would lead to condemnation in hell, or the “lake of fire,” if one did not repent, according to a lawsuit he filed June 19 in Los Angeles County Superior Court.
After those comments, LAPD passed him up for promotions and pay raises in retaliation, Holyfield alleges in the suit, saying that he was discriminated against for his religion and that his 1st Amendment rights were violated.
Hmm, we’re not sure where we stand on this. Sure, Holyfield’s a private citizen, but do we really want a hate-monger on the police force – with a gun? Not especially. Meanwhile, why use a friend’s funeral for such anti-gay propaganda. If nothing else, this guy’s guilty of being gauche.
fredo777
Close.
He’s guilty of being something that ends in “che”, but I wasn’t thinking “gauche”.
Kevin
Hey! That’s Joe Friday’s badge! He was # 714, Rampart division.
CHURCHILL-Y
That sounds just like something right up on Barack’s faith based extensions alley.
I’m sure given his “big Biblical push” pandering he would totally side with the good sergeant.
Trenton
Thanks, C-Hilly. I was just wondering to myself, “I am just DYING to know how Churchill-y is going to spin this into a misguided rant against Obama? This doesn’t seem like fertile material for even his nonsense…will he be man enough to make that incredibly inane leap?”
But you never disappoint. Thanks as always. My day is truly complete.
tallskin
“Hmm, we’re not sure where we stand on this.” What???
Seems as clear as day to me – a religiously afflicted sky pixie worshipper makes outrageously homophobic comments about YOU and your sexuality and you don’t fucking know where you stand??!!!
DOH.
What is with you yanks and your absurd toleration of mental illnesses -Just think if someone didn’t say they were religious you’d lock the fucker up in the loonybin with other nutjobs who hear voices etc.
Get real you lot. By tolerating the religious you’re merely presenting your backs to be beaten
Darth Paul
(High 5 to Trenton)
The pastor needs to stick to being a pastor if it’s so important to him to preach hate. Police are government workers (church/state?) and police departments (esp LAPD!) cannot afford to lose credibility and community support over BS like this.
Darth Paul
Tallskin- if you’re from the UK or Australia, you have little room to rant at us for tolerating “mental illness.” Fix your own backyard before criticizing ours.
tallskin
Darth Paul, I am from England. Explain what you mean??
Michael J
I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve had some experience with EEO in my office, and I would think EEO law is not on Holyfield’s side because of the public nature of his position and the public nature of his statements.
Someone on the police force interacts with the public and is in a sense a representative of the city government who can either foster or undermine public confidence and support of the police and law. Being a representative in this way is part of the job, and the city has an interest in fostering public confidence in the police. Holyfield’s public statements against homosexuality go against that interest. And Holyfield’s statements should be considered public not private in nature because he is a pastor and he was speaking at a funeral. In and of themselves, they compromise his ability to do his job, regardless of whether he in fact has discriminated against gay people while on duty as a police office.
If Holyfield had a desk job with limited or no contact with the public, then his publicly stating his beliefs (however offensive they may be) in and of would have no consequence on his ability to do the job (presuming he did not act on his beliefs in such a way so as to prevent him or others in his workplace from doing their jobs).
tallskin
I will add that the more secular (mainly) western european countries are generally more gay friendly. The more religiously afflicted (eastern European) are much less gay friendly. Italy, sort of fits half way.
Darth Paul – Have you really, honestly, truly, not noticed that the main opposition to gay equality comes from the mentally ill (religious) in the US?
You must NOT give these people any respect or credence, instead treat them with utter contempt.
SuperCat
Ironic since there is a chance he might be discriminating agains gay suspects, perps, victims, and witnesses.
You can have an officer who does that. Now I am not saying he does, but if there is even a chance he could cause an incident then I totally understand why they wouldn’t promote him.
SuperCat
*cannot. typo. You cannot have an officer who might treat people unfairly.
CHURCHILL-Y
Tallskin:
What people like Darth Paul,Trenton ,777 mean is
that only people who belong to the same group as the perpetrators are allowed to call on their bullshit. That often extends with these three morons to race and now since they detected some British terms in your post they like to insinuate that you shouldn’t comment (negatively) on American matters. Pay them no attention, they represent a sort of cancer the LGBT community has here in America when it comes to members of color who identify themselves as such. I as an American welcome the comments from people from the UK, and quite honestly I totally sympathise with what you said.
tallskin
Thanks Churchill_Y, in fact I have great respect for you lot fighting for gay equality over there. Indeed the modern gay movement comes from the USA.
But I really, really, don’t understand why america is so religious, and this very board is so respectful of religion(s).
It seems from this side of the pond that we’ve taken on board your ideas and have run with them, with gay marriage, etc etc. Yet, you’re being held back constantly by fuckwits who claim they should be respected because they worship a sky-pixie.
Fucking Madness.
Trenton
“Pay them no attention, they represent a sort of cancer the LGBT community has here in America when it comes to members of color who identify themselves as such.”
Even after sorting out the the comma splice and and the playground politics…I really can’t fathom what you were trying to say here.
I will say that Tallskin is entitled to his opinion, but spouting venomous and ultimately ironic polemics about religious people (“mentally ill”…that’s just darling) doesn’t get us anywhere. It only intensifies the hatred of the bigots you are vainly railing against. Where do suppose this kind of acrimony leads? I’ll admit deep down that i do contempt their beliefs and actions, and I don’t believe there is any changing them. One can only discredit them, and let the world evolve past them, leaving them as the bitter, self-destructive atavisms that they are. That’s their fate. And becoming like them doesn’t speed our case. It only causes further confusion.
I’ve said it before: I’m glad that there are zealous people in the LGBT who are willing to confront these people head on, but those who are blatantly bigoted against whole groups (not all religious peope hate homosexuality or are “mentally ill”) really can’t be trusted to make change the better for anyone. Not for the world at large, and not even for the LGBT community.
Konrad
he has every right to make such statements in the forum he did without retaliation or retribution by his employer. the issue is, was this why he was not given promotions or is he just a whinny, incompetent cop.
Trenton
He has his rights to make these comments, yes…but let’s suppose that he said, “whites are the supreme race and all ethnics will go to hell” and saidthat it was because of his religious beliefs. ASSUMING that he wasn’t fired outright for making a disgusting, hateful claim (as he did at the funeral) I think the department should have the sovereignty and discretion to consider passing him up for promotions: someone in a leadership position should never be so bigoted and dogmatic (though it happens all the time) as it can easily affect their performance and judgment, and the last thing the LAPD needs is anotherscanal.
SO he can serve his twisted conception of god and righteousness and yaddayadda all he wants and make himself look like an uncouth ass at a solemn occasion. Fine. But the LAPD should be within their rights to not give him any more authority than he already has (already too much, if you ask me).
Trenton
*the last thing the LAPD needs is another scandal.
PS: Thanks for turning the discussion back toward the actual issue, Konrad. At least for the moment.
Puddy Katz
Sure, Holyfield’s a private citizen, but do we really want a hate-monger on the police force – with a gun? Not especially.
It is not an issue, not a legal issue at all. He has rights as a private citizen which include freedom of religion and of speech. He can say whatever he wants as a pastor off the job and it should have no legal effect on his job.
Rights, guys, are meant to apply equally to us all, even those whom we disagree with and those who hate us.
Bob R
Tallskin, you obviously have never read some of my comments. I too have been taken to task by Trenton and others for my unforgiving and relentless condemnation of religion and those sadly delusional folks that subscribe to the various religious mythologies. I learned a long time ago that you cannot reason with delusional people. Some gay folks think that Christians don’t hate, because they don’t want to accept that they do. They must. It’s the doctrine. At the very least they must profess to hate the sin, if not the sinner. If you are a nonbeliever, you’re condescendingly dismissed because you’re going to burn in hell. There are no options other than accepting their faerie tale “lord and savior” or eternal damnation. Plus, there are serious consequences for those who associate with the non-repentant sinner. The truth is, most Christians will sing hymns and pray for your soul all while they joyfully burn you at the stake. The bottom line is you cannot reason with people that are incapable of rational thought. In essence, religious people are crazy people. The more religious, the more delusional they are. You should have been here a few weeks ago when crazy Marilyn visited the forum to tell us why we would never be able to marry and the only path to salvation was accepting Jesus and leaving the depraved homosexual lifestyle behind. Many on this forum tried to reason with her, but she kept parroting her Catholic dogma and talking points. She was relentless. The scriptures make everything clear and if you don’t accept the true word of God, as interpreted by Marilyn and her Catholic dogma,your doomed for eternity. Did anyone change her mind? No. But I’m sure she felt happy and smug knowing she had castigated the sinners at QUEERTY.
BobP
I think the LAPD has the right to NOT promote him. They train their employees to be sensitive to people of different color, nationalities, sexuality, etc. They’d be asking for trouble promoting someone who clearly is biased. People like that can’t be trusted to do the right thing. We’re talking about a “pastor” who spoke about these things at someones FUNERAL!! I certainly wouldn’t want him investigating an anti-Gay crime against me. Would you?
Trenton
And it bothers you that she felt smug…why?
Marilyn was full of shit, and by the end it was apparent that she wasn’t even as well-meaning as she first implied, though that my have just been reactive. You and others certainly weren’t pulling any punches.
By the by…I said it then, I said it here, but what the hell…I’ll say it again: Maybe I’m naive, but fighing fire with fire doesn’t always work. Long-term, it is not in our best interests to become as equally hateful and offensive as bigots like Marilyn and Holyfield. You are comfortable with doing that…fine. You can be on the offense; I and others like me will be on defense. That doesn’t mean that we are sell-outs or that we passively let others walk on us. We’re simply not convinced that being disrespectful will win the over the less dogmatic individuals who may happen to identify as religious but don’t judge homosexuality negatively. These people do exist, and in increasing numbers. Best to win them over and let the religious relics reveal themselves as the kooks that they.
We’ll never eradicate hate, of course, but how do you suppose we can even put a dent in it if we foster it ourselves?
But bark on, o firebrands. It saves my voice the strain.
blake
Darth Paul & Trenton, double high-fives for taking on Queerty’s infamous, racist hypocrite, Church-Nazi.
Although people have a right to their religious beliefs, if a person publicly espouses hatred against a group of people and may be in line to supervise members of that group, an employer would have to worry about potential lawsuits.
Funerals for police offers are normally a public affair that includes some kind of formal recognition of a fallen comrade. This means that the event becomes work related. Bigoted comments said in the company of fellow employees affects the work environment, possibly creating a hostile work environment, even if those comments take place off site.
Woman have successfully sued for discrimination because they were forced to listen to sexist discussion or witness sexist behavior by their colleagues in non-formal settings. LAPD has a long history of discrimination against members of minority groups. Why would officers promote someone who could cause another scandal?
P.S.
Not all Christians are homophobes. Archbishop Desmond Tutu has fought gay rights. The Anglican/Episcopal Church is dividing because a large portion believes in accepting gays fully. Archbishop Gene Robinson is an openly gay man. The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr relied on the advice of Bayard Rustin, an openly gay man, one of the architects of the successful strategy of the Civil Rights Era.
Puddy Katz
I doubt he can PROVE he has been discriminated against. If he can it will make an interesting court case and I predict freedom of religion and speech (which we need as well) will be upheld.
Trenton
PK, you still seem to be insinuating that if they did not promote him because of those remarks that it would be a violation of those rights. No one silenced him or locked him in jail or fired him for those remarks. That’s as far as the rights go. They do not extend to his promotion, because it is not a matter of his religious beliefs or his right to sepak them, but his lack of professionalism, respect and dignity and the clear existence of a bias which could sour relations with workers, compromise investigations, and perhaps lead the LAPD into another REAL lawsuit.
I say right on if they didn’t promote him because of those remarks. he has the right to say and believe what he likes…but if demonstrates a hostile bias, then it is he who compromised his career, not the LAPD. Do not conflate the two.
Pete
I don’t have any idea about the legalities, but I sure hope he expends a private fortune and gets nowhere with his lawsuit. He doesn’t deserve to be rewarded.
Trenton
If he expends a private fortune, you can bet the public will have lost even more. He’s already cost the city thousand with this spurious bullshit, I’m sure. I have faith that he can find other ways of ruining himself without dragging the city further into the mud or costing them another dime. Best to hope that he quits and fades into oblivion sooner than later.
RPCV
That kind of a rant could only be spoken by one of two people (and perhaps both): The Right Reverend Jeremiah “God DAMN America, the Whites Inflicted HIV on the Poor Struggling Pants-down-to-the-thighs Black People” Wright, or a black.
Pete
Trenton, you are assuredly right about that –
” Best to hope that he quits and fades into oblivion sooner than later.”
Hell Fire
RPCV, there are different types of people in this world: there are those that go to hell after they die and those that live a hell here on earth. You fit in the latter category because you are so demented and obsessed with hate that your every waking second is a testament to everything ugly and grotesque. People who read your disgusting words can take comfort in the fact that you are a miserable wretch and every hateful word you think, utter and type is reflected back tenfold on your despicable, rotting soul.
RPCV
Hell Fire: But, you didn’t prove that my original assertion was false…..
tallskin
DARTH PAUL – i am still waiting for your explanation of what you mean?
Or are you all hot air and don’t have the mental equipment to explain what you mean by your silly statement?
Phoenix (the former Goth sissy boy, not the Pale one)
Okay, lets get back to the case of the bigoted Jeebus freak. Why the hell was he ranting on teh Gaighs at his fellow cop’s funeral? I saw no mention in the article that the friend was killed by LGBT? I saw no mention of the FRIEND being LGBT? So wtf set him off on the rant?
Methinks that he may be a triffle more nutso than the average bible thumper and his fellow cops complained (along with family members of the deceased) about his bigoted rant.
His mental health is probably also what is keeping him from advancement.
p.s. It’s not my website, but I wish it was.
RPCV
Phoenix (the former Goth sissy boy, not the Pale one): Proper English grammar is “p.s. It’s not my website, but I wish it WERE.”
Brandon
Pheonix: “Holyfield, in the suit, said the words came to him through God in prayer and meditation as he prepared for the sermon.” From the LA times
so yea no REAL reason for the rant
Mr C
RPCV=angry and bitter
He said “That kind of a rant could only be spoken by one of two people (and perhaps both): The Right Reverend Jeremiah “God DAMN America, the Whites Inflicted HIV on the Poor Struggling Pants-down-to-the-thighs Black People†Wright, or a black.”
Hey sister don’t forget Pat Robertson, John Hagee, Rod Parsley…The White ranting preachers. You know girl just a few thoughts……..
Churchychicken= ignorant and rabid! PERIOD
Such a waste!
Ian J UK
I’m with Tallskin on this one, from this side of the pond, gays in the US seem either unable or unwilling to challenge religious based groups attacks on the gay community.
Andy
Gay people pay taxes. They have a right to expect not to be discriminated against by police officers. If this policeman had made similar remarks about blacks (and if Chuuchill-y and RPCV had not been in charge), he’d probably have been dismissed. I believe in the right to freedom of speech, but people who hold potentially dangerous biases against sectors of the community should not be in positions of responsibility.
Konrad
“Funerals for police offers are normally a public affair that includes some kind of formal recognition of a fallen comrade. This means that the event becomes work related.”
No. The offcier is not “on duty”. The LAPD has rules that make it clear when an officer is on duty and off-duty. Its really not a matter of dispute.
“Although people have a right to their religious beliefs, if a person publicly espouses hatred against a group of people and may be in line to supervise members of that group, an employer would have to worry about potential lawsuits.”
Let the employer worry. If the bigotry is innate and uncontrable, it will evidence itself in the workplace and the officer can be diciplined at that time. Gays and Lesbians for years said that off-duty conduct should not be grounds for employee discipline. Let’s stay true to our principles.
Jaroslaw
I am at work, so I have to be quick so forgive me if my ideas are not fully developed. One thing I haven’t seen on this post is why anyone needs to to an “altar” call at a funeral (which is requesting the sinners to come to Jesus) – I’ve been to plenty of those, and they are always some version of narrow fundamentalist Christianity or why this man felt the need to spout off about homosexuals at all, positive or negative. I don’t know for sure about women successfully suing for listening to sexist talk in informal situations (I’m not doubting it either) but I would be almost certain if officer Holyfield was wearing his uniform, he would not be considered a private citizen.
As for being respectful of religion, Tallskin – yeah, I do understand where you’re coming from even though I’m a believer but religion has done much good as well. I have no problem condemning narrow bigoted religion. The easiest course to take which even most of the Gay groups don’t touch is the fact that IF a religion is going to try to change social policy based on their beliefs why don’t they go after unwed mothers, adulterers, fornicators, alcoholics and even fat people ( the body is the temple remember it says somewhere in the Bible) – because most of those kinds of religious leaders are power hungry scumbags and they pick on an easy target: Gays! They would lost 3/4 of their congregation if they applied the same rules to them.
Either way, we don’t live in a theocracy and this needs to shouted from the rooftops as well. Your rights end where mine begin. I don’t want America to become Iran and Iraq where people blow up buildings because they are fighting over whose religion is correct. You believe the way you want and do the same for me.
Jaroslaw
What I meant to say in paragraph 3 is why don’t they go after the adulterers, etc. there are FAR more of them than us Gays. So go after who does the most ‘harm’ ?
greybat
No.39- Thank you, Konrad! That was comforting.
Arms
Don Imus and Sgt. Holyfield should be kissing cousins,the hate is equal. In real time, a larger concern should be the countersuit regarding the racists statements made in a public forum that had nothing to do with the fallen hero. If those statements would have been made in our company, he would have been fired on the spot. Grow up pastor of hate. STOP THE HATE!!!!!!!!!!!! God does not like ugly, get it.
god' child
First of all if you read the word of God, LAPD you would know that he quoted scripture from the word of God. How dare you judge another man’s servant!!!! read your bible!!! To Gay people this is a warning for you all by God’s word. Just how Noah warned the people it was going to rain and no one took heed to him. Gay and LAPD and all those against this man of God/your own Officer read the word for yourselves.