At least one man is not happy about the number of gay guys using hookup apps.
“[I]nstead of advancing the gay agenda of inclusion, I found the apps to perpetuate what people scorn about LGBT: promiscuity, impersonal behavior, and sexually motivated conversations,” Cody Freeman writes in a new essay published by Time. “These depersonalized conversations are what lead to depersonalized relationships.”
On the contrary, one might argue that getting totally naked and rolling around in bed with another person creates a very personal relationship — at least for an hour or so.
Freeman claims hookup apps like OkCupid, Tinder and Grindr are destroying gay culture by perpetuating the stereotype that gay men are all a bunch of whores. He also believes the apps encourage “shame-based” relationships. (Of course, it’s only “shame-based” if one thinks being gay is shameful, which Freeman seems to believe, or at least he insinuates it subconsciously.)
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“Gay men want those perfect relationships that we see in romantic-comedies, instead of the ultimate fear of our generation: being alone,” Freeman generalizes. “But there is nowhere that is not sex-based to connect.”
Hmmm. We’ve met plenty of other gay guys in non-sexual settings. At school, at work, at parties, you name it. Apps are just one of many methods gay men use to connect. And, contrary to what Freeman implies, not all of us do. There are plenty of gay guys out there who don’t have Grindr accounts.
Freeman acknowledges that the apps aren’t all bad.
“Compared to traditional dating methods, these apps provide many advantages,” he writes, “[Y]ou save time on bad blind dates and boring conversations, you can connect to someone anytime you feel lonely, and if you are rejected you simply move on to the next person.”
But, he continues, that convenience comes with a price.
“[B]ecause there are thousands of people at your fingertips,” Freeman writes, “it also creates a society of oversharing, superficiality, and instant gratification. You are on the grid 24/7 and you must advertise yourself.”
This creates what he calls a “paradox of choice.”
“Be careful who you choose,” he says, “because there might be someone better out there—always.”
Sounds like someone’s been burned more than a few times.
“I assume that I am like most people on these apps,” Freeman writes, “ultimately seeking a lasting relationship.”
Maybe that’s his first mistake.
What do you think? Are apps killing gay culture? Sound off in the comments section below.
Related stories:
If You’re Over 40 You Should Stay Out Of Gay Bars, Says Ageist Blogger
Is Hornet The Hookup App With A Conscience?
Don’t Be That Gay: The 10 Most Obnoxious Types Of Homosexual Men
Graham Gremore is a columnist and contributor for Queerty and Life of the Law. Follow him onFacebook and Twitter.
AxelDC
Gays need to quit trying to be the “best little boy in the world” and be themselves. Do you know why gay men are promiscuous? Because they are men! If women frequented bathhouses, straight men would never leave.
Men like to have sex, and if you are single, you have to find someone to have sex with. Straight men spend much of their time and money trying to woo women into their beds, but gay men just have to woo men.
As Dan Savage said, gay isn’t good or bad, it just is. Hopefully, one of the benefits of gay equality is we can drop this good fairy/demonic image of gays. We are just people who happen to be gay, and humans have both flaws and virtues.
It’s not your job to police the gay community. If you don’t want to hook up, find a nice guy and settle down. Don’t stress about those who need to sow their wild oats for a while. That’s what straight men do before they settle down.
Cy
I can agree with much of what he is saying, these apps do perpetuate promiscuity, impersonal behavior, and sexually motivated conversations because the underlying reason people use them is still to hook up for sex. Sure, there are a few people who are only looking for friendships, but they’re few and far between and they proably use sites other than OkCupid, Tinder and Grindr. But do I believe these apps are destroying gay culture? No, of course not. By perpetuating promisculity, impersonal behaviour and sexually motivated conversations these apps simply aid in our connections. That’s not destroying our culture, but rather playing into it, and as far as perpetuating stereotypes goes, well, if by that he means it helps gays be who they are (i.e. sexually motivated men) then so be it. It’s like saying Gay Pride events destroy gay culture because they encourage gay people to dress flamboyantly or strut around in their underwear in public. Face it, all men are whores, not just gay men. And if sites existed that allowed straight men to hook up with women as easily, they’d be 10 times as popular.
Trippy
One of the main errors in Freeman’s thinking is that “gay culture” (whatever the hell that is) is changing and therefore that’s a bad thing. All cultures change and evolve, and any culture that remains static eventually dies. Prior to the arrival of online social networking, gay bars and bathhouses served much the same purpose as the modern app, so nothing has really changed. What Freeman fails to notice is that prior to the pc and smartphone era, men in small town America didn’t have access to a corner gay bar or a local bathhouse. Apps are actually creating gay communities in places that previously had no “community” to speak of.
Freeman also fails to understand that men (all men, not just the gay ones) are more naturally prone to promiscuity than women. As other posters have noted, not all men are promiscuous, but most of those who are promiscuous are men. As several of my straight male friends have secretly confided in me over the years, a lot of them are actually envious of how easily gay men can find willing sex partners when the mood strikes. Straight men don’t have that luxury.
Of course straight men have mostly brought this on themselves, as I have pointed out to them on numerous occasions. They are the ones who created and perpetuate the “stud/slut” dichotomy, so it’s no wonder they have a hard time finding sex partners on Saturday night.
This is just Neo-Puritanism for the 21st century.
JerseyMike
! Gay or straight, men are going to have sex. Long before aol and gay.com (remember them) gay men where hooking up in bath houses, at the bar, in the parks.. You name it we did it. These apps are just a different format for fuccking. App or no app I’m going to enjoy the company of another man when my body desire it.
bottom72
I am a Man, I am a Gay Man and I love being topped by men and this desire will not go away. It is natural for me and other gay men. This has always been a part of gay male culture. I see it as the opposite if men stop cruising view technology, bathhouses, bars and parks then a large segment of gay culture dies. Honey, hooking up for gay sex is one of the great joys and cultural aspects of being a gay male. I think it is awesome when gay men want a monogamous relationship and that should be embraced in our culture but let’s not shame men like me who crave having a variety of men in me.
vive
There is nothing wrong with being a whore. His unquestioned assumption that promiscuity is a bad thing is where his argument comes apart at the seams.
It’s already been half a century since the sexual revolution, and people are still slut-shaming. Speaking of the New Victorians…
QJ201
Gay culture has been destroyed by selfish imperfect guys demanding perfection in their partners…and 7’s looking for 11’s.
AxelDC
@QJ201: That’s not gay culture, that’s human nature.
Ridpathos
The author here already has an obvious bias towards one answer for his question, I wonder why he even bothers to ask it.
If you are hooking up to have sex with someone for an hour and then never talking to them again, even if sex is involved, that is regarded as an impersonal relationship. I don’t understand why the author doesn’t understand that.
But I would say that all of the apps he mentions are not equal. For instance I used OKCupid to find my boyfriend who I’ve been dating for 5 years. Grindr is probably more likely for men who just want a hook-up. But they shouldn’t throw all internet dating into the same pool. Interestingly enough the majority of my heterosexual friends who are couples ALSO found each other through OkCupid. I like that we use the same apps for the same purpose rather than having to separate them just for the gay community. (Maybe they should make a Tinder/Grindr mash-up for everyone)
But yes, I think that Grindr and other hook-up apps do perpetuate stereotypes. It’s arguable whether these are good or bad stereotypes, but the fact that they perpetuate stereotypes should be obvious.
onthemark
I clicked on the Time magazine link (radical idea, I know!) and have these thoughts:
– Why does he keep saying “LGBT” over & over & over? Lesbians don’t use these apps, do they? That’s a male phenomenon. Nor do lesbians have the stereotype of being promiscuous. (Then there’s his assumption that promiscuity is a bad thing, which as others have pointed out, it’s not.)
– He seems awfully hung up on what straights think of us. Believe it or not, some guys back in the ’70s and ’80s figured out that we can’t spend all our time worrying about what straights think of us. At some point you just have to live your fvcking life.
– If he’s in his 20s, he should realize that most guys in their 20s just aren’t ready to settle down yet (even if he is). He seems befuddled by this concept. It almost seems like he doesn’t want a relationship so much as he wants a gold star for being the sort of “good boy” who wants a relationship.
– At any rate… he lives in Philadelphia, where romance goes to die!
– Maybe the guys he’s hitting on are afraid he’s underage, because he has a third-grader name like Cody. (Kidding, kidding! I’m sure he’ll find a nice Tyler or Dakota eventually.)
sanfranca1
@bottom72: LOL, I love that: …men like me who crave having a variety of men IN me… Exactly!
QJ201
@AxelDC: male nature
Billy Budd
Men like to fuck. That is all I have to say.
Lestar
@onthmark…lol,that is truly on the mark
Chelsea21St
This is nothing new, people have always behaved like this. 30 yrs ago, you could make the same claim about bar-hopping & going to discos; now it’s being done online, that’s all.
flexdoc
It may come as a shock to some people that not every gay person is enamored with inclusion and what it brings. Besides don’t think for one iota of a second that if they could get way with it straight men would be doing the same thing. Why do gay men have to be the homosexual exact duplicates of straight men to get equal rights?
Saint Law
Of course you don’t need to use Grindr to find bad sex but it certainly seems to help.
I know loads of gay men who use these apps. Some of whom are all you could want in a friend. But when discussing their app facilitated experiences they all of them seems a bit…frustrated.
They often don’t get sex because it is in the nature of everyone faced with the same illusion of unlimited choice that peops like to keep their options open. And the sex they have is often – by their own report – dire. Not just unsatisfying but perfunctory, mechanical, even hostile.
I don’t think you can blame these apps for the destruction of gay culture tho – whatever that is. Despite the vacancy, negligence and sheer dissociative weirdness that can be encountered on them, it’s down to the way you use them.
A good rule of thumb is to remember that there is another human being at the other end, just like you.
Perhaps too much like you. Perhaps that is the problem?
EdgarCarpenter
Freeman’s type have always been with us, promiscuously spreading their ignorant opinions and assumptions. I’m glad I don’t have to live his life, I’d find the sex boring and the strictures suffocating.
Paco
Hookup apps have added another way for gay men to hookup, but have not destroyed our “culture”. Mr. Freeman seems frustrated and I can relate on some level. Even though it is common to see blanket statements in the comments of related articles that all men are promiscuous by design, not all of us are. Some of us are wired to seek out a single partner, which can sometimes make us feel like we are in the minority. It’s misguided to blame apps (or anything) for that. If hookup apps aren’t providing him with a selection of likeminded people, then he should seek other ways to meet potential boyfriends. It’s the reason I don’t use them.
Alan down in Florida
How do you folks think stereotypes become stereotypes? It happens when some behavior becomes so prevalent that people come to expect it. All stereotypes have a basis in truth – whatever the reason.
I remember some things I was taught a long time ago about the differences between men and women. Regardless of orientation, men are goal oriented and are less interested in anything beyond spreading their seed near and far. Women are into a long game in which they are selecting the best mate that will create the best genetic child and protect and provide for it.
Another thing I was taught is that women want intimacy before sex while men, once again regardless of orientation, use sex to find intimacy. So it’s no surprise that gay men flock to these social media hookup sites – the hook ups are the path to a gay man’s heart.
Chris
Meh, another bloviator complaining that gay men are — well —- men. Whether win an app, app-less or even hapless, men like sex. I have two steps for the writer to take: (1) get over it and (2) stay over it.
Geeker
@Paco: I certainly seem to be wired that way,casual/anonymous sex has never appealed to me and it’s annoying being told I’m either repressed,self loathing or just trying to “act straight” when I tell other gay men that.
Gothrykke
Another phd candidate looking to make himself a name by shitting on the community’s chest. Little boys need to grow up and quit waiting to be patted on the head for approval by the big straight daddy. “Are we perpetuating stereotypes” is the new favorite question bigots like to introduce to hide their bigotry, especially when it’s internally directed. We don’t have to pass. We don’t have to live by anyone else’s standards. If we embarrass someone because we act a certain way that they think isn’t dignified, that’s their problem.
You know, when Bill Cosby tried this same BS with his community, people told him like we should with this little boy. “Mind your own business.”
sooperone
It IS our nature to be sexual creatures and I am totally sex positive and nonjudgmental when it comes to how often or how you fuck…. but…. Come on, guys, guys, guys…. it’s not human nature to be so hung up on finding the perfect guy… who checks off every one of the boxes on our fantasy checklist of perfection… that shaming other guys with “not my type” messages or, not messaging back at all becomes ok. There’s no way that it’s not a devolution of the way we communicate and socialize. It just feels like nature way because that’s where our culture has kind of led. And it’s what we do now. Our community has gotten much more insensitive towards others and that’s just disappointing and dangerous.
It’s happening not just by shaming “less than perfect” guys on hookup apps but by barebacking recklessly more without telling your sex partner because it’s not a big deal anymore, by judging each other so harshly for being different (i.e.: not masc enough, too femme) etc…
The article might be a bit one sided, maybe hyperbolic, but he is definitely on to something that should be addressed with more than snark remarks, taking digs at the author and reductive thinking.
aequalitasTN
@AxelDC: well said
Geeker
They may not be destroying the community but they seem to be making people less civil towards one another.
vive
I don’t agree with the posters who say that men (or they themselves) are “wired” one way or another. People change their desires and their minds during the course of their lives, and this belief in biological determinism is very limiting. I was intensely monogamous in my 20s and much of my 30s, after which married life lost its appeal to me and I happily became very promiscuous. I doubt I’ll ever want to be monogamous again, but I wouldn’t rule it out.
I agree with the author of the piece that Grindr is overall harmful to the quality of gay life in many larger cities (although it is probably improving it in towns and rural areas that previously had nothing). But I disagree with the reasons – promiscuity has nothing to do with it. In fact, it was much easier to hook up with someone (or several someones) attractive in the bathhouses that Grindr mostly replaced than it is with Grindr. (It still is, in the few remaining cities with quality bathhouses.) So it is quite possible that we have LESS promiscuity with Grindr than we would have had without it. So people who don’t like promiscuity should welcome Grindr.
Geeker
Well I’m in my 40’s and my lack of interest in casual/anonymous sex has been consistent since my early 20’s so while some may change others obviously do not.
sooperone
@Geeker: Exactly!
iggy6666
@Geeker: careful. Freedom of speech is only granted to a select few on here
Paco
@Geeker: Same here. I do know how I am wired.
Mykaels
So instead of perpetuating stereotypes and being “only about sex” in person in a bar, they are doing it on apps. Um, ok…
These issues existed before apps, they will exist when we have moved on from apps.
onthemark
“I assume that I am like most people on these apps,” Freeman writes, “ultimately seeking a lasting relationship.”
That’s the point – his assumption, which is incorrect. I don’t know why he assumes that “most” young gay men are seeking that, but they’re just not. Sometimes it happens by chance because you find out actually LIKE the guy (gasp – a radical concept, I know!) and you make a natural connection, but most gay guys in their 20s are not consciously, deliberately seeking a lasting relationship – yet.
If you don’t like casual/anonymous sex, good for you, your medal from the “gay community” is in the mail. But you are definitely in the minority, like it or not.
Geeker
@onthemark: That’s ok onthemark,I’m used to being in the minority so I’m perfectly fine with being in that one.
vive
@Geeker, yes, we know by now after the seven millionth repetition. Nobody has a problem with your monogamy. It’s the way you are lording your monogamy over everybody else that’s obnoxious.
Geeker
I’m not lording anything,I’m just stating what works for me.