Charlie Lowden, a British scaffolder who died at age 20 during “routine surgery” around Christmas last year, donated sperm to his aunt and her partner so they could have children — but never told his parents Charles and Lynn Lowden. But Lynn’s sister Sarah and her partner Claire told Charlie’s parents about his gracious act after he died, and the married couple who thought they had a niece and nephew now realize they have grandchildren. Claire gave birth to Carlton, now 5, and Sarah, 2 … which, uh, means Charlie first donated his sperm at age 16.
Daez
It still wouldn’t be there grandchildren since the parental rights did not belong to Charlie.
Being 16 isn’t really a shock. Old enough to make it, old enough to harvest it.
Jamie
Isn’t the age of consent in Britain 16?
scribe
@Daez no,no, no… sixteen is way too young to ask someone to make such a gift… I know you are joking (I hope), but I started nutting when I was 11, should I have been able to donate???
Hilarious
The age doesn’t matter at this point. Had he waited he’d have never had children or given his parents grandchildren to speak of.
The way it turned out they were given a miracle while suffering the loss of their son.
That’s the point of the article.
Being hung up on his age at the time is silly.
It was his aunt, not some stranger, and she was perfectly fine with naming him as the father. She said in the article herself that the kids know who their father is and miss him.
Mark
@Daez: What is your logic that parental rights did not belong to the young man? Where does it say he signed them away? Where does it say the two women didn’t grant him some sort of rights? Even the auntie told her sister she and her partner were grandparents. Making assumptions.
Obama DID say DADT would happen on his watch... (John From England)
He was actually 15. And this is dodgy as f*ck.
Lesbians are soo selfish. They WANT a child and will do all they can do get one.
Elepahant in the room but if a gay couple that was male got some sperm from a 15 year or 16 year old girl…
…………..
Obama DID say DADT would happen on his watch... (John From England)
Pinkness.co.uk says he was 15. Why did they hide it?
astor
@Obama DID say DADT would happen on his watch… (John From England): That would be quite a trick to extract sperm from a girl……
Joann Prinzivalli
@astor: not unless it was her boyfriend’s . . .
SteveC
He was 15.
The age of consent in Britain is 16.
jackieohboy
Isn’t the “age of consent” a law about having sex? Not about somebody jacking off in a cup?
Also studies show that contrary to popular belief there actually are negative consequences of older men fathering children. The older a man is the more cell generations he has gone through, with each generation comes increased risk of mutations. So the younger the man the better the sperm.
SteveC
“Isn’t the “age of consent” a law about having sex? Not about somebody jacking off in a cup?”
Yes.
But the reason age of consent laws exist is because of the issue of informed consent.
A 15 year old is deemed to be legally unable to give an informed consent to sex. Therefore if an adult has sex with a 15 year old then they are committing rape.
If a 15 year old is not legally capable of giving an informed consent to sex, then he is absolutely incapable of giving an informed consent to parenthood.
A 15 year old girl is already legally banned from donating her eggs to be fertilised and implanted in a surrogate.
Why the double standard?
What is wrong with this couple? Why did they groom a child to donate his sperm?
Why did they not opt for an adult donor?
paulD
There is a tiny bit of “ick” factor to this story.
B
No. 11 · SteveC wrote, “If a 15 year old is not legally capable of giving an informed consent to sex, then he is absolutely incapable of giving an informed consent to parenthood.”
I don’t see the relevance of that comment – sperm donors have zero obligations as parents.
Scott
From #11 “A 15 year old girl is already legally banned from donating her eggs to be fertilised and implanted in a surrogate.”
Isn’t egg harvesting rough on a woman, requiring hormone injections and an invasive procedure? Sperm harvesting isn’t rough on a male. Apples and oranges.
Now, someone under age can’t enter into a legal contract but there was none here. His donation was more akin to sneezing into a tissue and throwing it away. What happens afterwards to the specimen is of no consequence to the donor.
Why’d the couple use the boy? So there’d be familial DNA involved, linking the biological mother to the family of her partner. Makes sense to me.
Raj
@jackieohboy:
The problem is that a 15 year old doesn’t the right to enter into a legal contract because he lacks the intellectual capacity to fully understand the consequences of his actions.
It simply was not fair of his aunts to ask this of him. @B:
Actually, sperm donors can have legal obligation to their offspring if there is no contract.
@Daez:
Of course the kid’s parents are now grandparents. The children are the children of their child. This is simple biology. Moreover, since there was no legal contract in which the boy gave up his legal rights, he obviously could not have given up his parental rights.
Jeffree
I can’t pretend to know UK law, but assuming the sperm was donated via a doct.or’s office or cli.nic, then the responsibility to make sure this donation was legal/ethical was up to the MD.
scribe
sorry… I’m the most liberal person I know and this is just wrong. Hey 15 yr old newphew knock up my partner so the child has a connection to the both of us. Don’t worry that you are in highschool, don’t worry that your spunk is going to be in the same space that your aunt’s tongue plays inside, lets just not tell your parents and pass me the turkey baster… A relative job is to protect the younger generation, this was not done. Did the aunts wait outside the bathroom while he stroked it??? Bought him porn?? WTF This is just wrong. This is abuse.
B
No. 17 · scribe wrote, “Did the aunts wait outside the bathroom while he stroked it???”
I’d assume they aunts waited in a doctor’s or clinic’s waiting room. Unlike the U.S., the U.K. provides its citizens with health care, so why would the aunts resort to home-brewed insemination techniques such as the proverbial turkey baster?
Obama DID say DADT would happen on his watch... (John From England)
@scribe:
Agree. Really dodgy.
I bet he had sex with her. What a creepy aunt.
CJ
Assuming the best case scenario (hospital/doctor involved), I’m still personally uncomfortable with it. An aunt… her 15 or 16 year old nephew… and a secret kept from the parents? Take away the part that makes me feel uncomfortable and you still have an aunt that is having her nephew do something keep this secret from his parents. Not a very good example in my opinion. I guess I’m old fashioned. I think that we should be encouraging young kids to have healthy relationships with their parents that are honest and open vs. keeping secrets that aunts are in on.
Jeffree
Click through to the artcle lin.ked above: Charlie’s parents “took comfort” when they discovered the truth. (but I still bet it took a few minutes before the shock wore off !)
Advice for my own future children: Discuss this stuff with me first, please!
B
In No 15, Raj wrote, “@B: Actually, sperm donors can have legal obligation to their offspring if there is no contract.”
Don’t assume British rules are the same as those in the U.S.
http://www.alternativefamilylaw.co.uk/en/gay-lesbian/legal-paternity-sperm-donation.htm has a description of British rules since April 6, 2009 (not sure about earlier): “If the mother is in a civil partnership, her civil partner is “the second parent” of the child (unless she did not agree to the pregnancy). In this case it does not matter whether the mother was treated in a fertility clinic in the UK or abroad, or whether this was an informal donation or co-parenting arrangement with a man unless she had sexual intercourse with the genetic father.”
http://www.alternativefamilylaw.co.uk/en/children/legal-paternity-sperm-donation.htm has more of the details.
Also http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/22/section/42 :
“Woman in civil partnership at time of treatment E+W+S+N.I.
(1)If at the time of the placing in her of the embryo or the sperm and eggs or of her artificial insemination, W was a party to a civil partnership, then subject to section 45(2) to (4), the other party to the civil partnership is to be treated as a parent of the child unless it is shown that she did not consent to the placing in W of the embryo or the sperm and eggs or to her artificial insemination (as the case may be).”
Hilarious
So many downers bitching about the logistics of a bittersweet story.
The MAN is dead. His children live on.
Grow the fuck up.
alan brickman
Have you any compasssion??? What a bunch of fat jealous losers on this site…equal rights will definately take longer because of losers like you guys….
damendo
What really is the point of this story? It is not written well enough to understand. Is it to say…..awwwww, how sweet his parents at least have grandchildren, or it to say……oh shit! His parents now want some sort of legal right over the children since they would technically be “next of kin”? Please give more detail next time Queerty!!!
tavdy79
What is wrong with this couple? Why did they groom a child to donate his sperm? — SteveC
Isn’t it an assumption that they asked him? It could very easily have been the other way round – he may have found out his aunts wanted a child and, knowing they needed a sperm donor and that he could provide a biological link to the second parent, offered his services. Had I been in that situation I would have done the same thing.
@alan brickman: Big tick!
ousslander
The Aunt sounds like skeezey pedo
Jeffree
@Damendo:
Yep, this post was hard to figure out.
Click through to the original article to read more details. See how the word “told” is in a different color? That’s the [British] source. Still vague but better.
@Alan Brickbrain: “Fat” and “jealous” you call us. Look in the mirror Mary….with the lights on. You’ll see plenty of fatness & jealousy there.
MikeE
the kid was 16 when he donated. thus legal.
stop going on about “creepy” and all that crap.
the family is happy. that’s what matters.
PLAYS WELL WITH OTHERS
Why all the freakin’ debate? I look upon the kid as someone who was a absolute great person. He had no hangups about his Aunt being Gay and wanted to help them create a family. Who knows the financial situation? These procedures can cost tens of thousands. He may have volunteered, they knew the donor, saw he was a healthy vialbe candidate and accepted. He gave them the greatest gift and now his spirit lives on thru those two kids………….
How about the Queertyland cynics for once seeing a positive side of a story?
BTW: The way I used go at it, at 16 I could have been populated an entire town…………(come to think of it, I really haven’t changed much…….. :p )
Jaroslaw
Took long enough to get to the real topic or question, thanks Damendo #25. His aunt could have been a straight woman with an infertile husband – so what is the larger angle to this story which applies to Gay people generally?
And it is always amazing how selfish people are. The aunt just “had” to be pregnant? She couldn’t adopt if she wanted chidlren so badly? I thought there were tons of kids waiting to be adopted…..
Jaroslaw
And I agree with everyone else who said it’s creepy for an aunt to ask a 15/16 year old for his sperm. She has no other adult male friends or relatives?
DR
@damendo:
The link to the article was embedded in the story (it shows up as gold text on my computer). I went to the article which was linked and read about his lesbian aunt and her partner, how his parents wish they would have known he did this so they could tell him how they weren’t upset and are happy to have a link to their now-deceased son…
It was a really good read, he’s got a good family, even if the request seemed a bit weird.
alan brickman
His great legacy will carry on and make his parents feel better…lay off with the hate already!!!
Jaroslaw
Alan – all the articles here are presented for comment. I see some who disagree that is all. Or is your definition of “hate” anyone who disagrees with you?
DR – with one of the few taboos left in our society to ‘not speak ill of the dead’ I would find it unlikely his parents would have said anything else. (your #33). It is also true when someone is liked, he can do no wrong and when someone is not liked, he can do no right. There is no way to know how they would feel if he is still living.
I still think it was an inappropriate request by the aunt and I want someone to comment on why she couldn’t have asked an adult male friend or relative as he very likely was 15. Even if he was 16, I hope no one here is advocating that most 16 year olds would make great parents!
B
No. 35 · Jaroslaw wrote, “I still think it was an inappropriate request by the aunt” …
Nowhere in QUEERTY’s article or the one QUEERTY linked to was there a statement that this was a request by the aunt. If anything, it suggests the 16 year old took the initiative: “She [his mother] said: ‘Not many kids of 16 would offer to help in the way he did. But Charlie was kind and thoughtful. He had an old head on young shoulders.'”
Jaroslaw
Come on B, you are not being true to all your other posts. If I say to you “Gee I’m really broke wonder where I’m goint to get some money….” And you offer, I’ve essentially asked you. And the fact that the Aunt is probably twice his age or more, she could have easily refused.
As to what his mother said – I’ve already discussed that. What would you expect her to say? And everytime they interview parents of a horrific criminal(or the neighbors) they always say “but he was such a nice boy/man…” Don’t tell me you’ve never heard those interviews.
tjr101
I consider myself to be a very open minded individual (I know, quite the cliche) but it’s just disturbing to me that the aunt (an adult) would use the sperm of her 16 year old nephew. And then to keep this a secret from his parents, why the secrecy if she has nothing to be ashamed of? This along with some other questions such as why not finding an adult that is not as closely related.
There must be more to this story and I’m sure there is, but the aunty looks mighty selfish and irresponsible here.
Jaroslaw
TJR – good point – if it was okay, why lie? Another thought:
Polly K on another blog wrote ” so had he lived, all parties concerned would have just kept on lying?” Lovely…..
craigers
You people are pathetic. Seriously? “Age of consent”, “Ick factor”??? So much for gay people being more intelligent and open minded than the general population. Let me get this right, this guy could jack off into a kleenex and that’s fine, but do it into a cup and all hell breaks loose? You guys sound like the Pope. No, really, you do.
Jaroslaw
Craigers – You are oversimplifying. Reproduction has serious consequences. The fact that boys all over the world jack off into a kleenex does NOT mean they are ready to be parents. One has nothing to do with the other. And what of the children? Isn’t this the least bit awkward for them?
Hilarious
@Jaroslaw: Get a life. You’re seriously sitting here bitching about a kid who died at a very young age donating his own sperm to help his aunt and her partner.
Something that turned out to help both his parents and family hold on to a piece of him in death.
What the fuck is it to you? Why do you care so much and how do you think you’re being his hero exactly?
Somehow I doubt suggesting his Aunt took advantage of him would make HIM happy considering it was HIS decision. You sound like a total idiot.
On top of the fact that it didn’t take place in AMERICA so shut the fuck up about age of consent. He didn’t even have sex with anyone. He donated sperm.
You worms make me sick. You literally have no lives and have to tear other people down on the internet to make yourselves feel better. Disgusting.
randy
@Hilarious: Time for your meds.
B
No. 37 · Jaroslaw, wrote, “Come on B, you are not being true to all your other posts.”
Actually, I am being “true” to all my other posts – the issue was not what the aunt did but rather that the claim that she made a request is unsubstantiated – otherwise you could provide a link to an article saying that she asked the kid to be a sperm donor.
We’d save an enormous amount of time (and I don’t mean in just this discussion, but in much of the excuse for discourse that we now have in the U.S.) if we would be honest and accurate about what the facts really are. Look how much time was wasted in the U.S. Senate alone arguing about DADT as the opposition put up one patently ridiculous excuse after another for keeping the law. You know, like someone is really going to think twice about jumping into a fox hole to save his ass while being shot at just because the other guy who just jumped in might be gay.
As an example, you recently wrote, “And what of the children? Isn’t this the least bit awkward for them?” In reality, since he donated the sperm 4 years ago and the gestation period is just under a year (about 9 months), the oldest child is about 3 years old. It couldn’t possibly be awkward for a child that age – he/she wouldn’t have a clue as to what the adults are talking about.
Jaroslaw
Thanks Randy -It is sometimes helpful when people call me an idiot. They can’t just disagree, they have to be insulting too. Just shows what level they’re at and no one will take them seriously! 😉
B – If I haven’t read all your other posts, I’ve read a ton of them and it seems to me you’re splitting hairs on this one, something you never do. When the issue involves someone 15 and 40 guess who is responsible? And I already answered you about “making the request.” If she made her wishes known to him, an inappropriate thing, she is asking.
Ok, I didn’t think I needed to spell it out, especially to someone of your intelligence but ok. The kids will not be 3 forever…… and other kids being what they are can tease relentlessly. (You think they’re going to forget this was all over the news?) re: teasing- Ask anyone who grew up skinny with glasses. Or pimples. Whatever. And I grant this next bit conjecture, but not totally – the more people involved, the more chance for problems right? What happens if the Aunt, her lover and the “grandparents” get into a row over custody or other issues? Sounds like plenty of potential for “awkward” to me.
Jaroslaw
Hilarious, just for the record, nowhere did I suggest the Aunt “took advantage.” In whatever way. I said she could have adopted or asked male friends or relatives who were adults. Over 18.
B
No. 45 · Jaroslaw wrote, “B – If I haven’t read all your other posts, I’ve read a ton of them and it seems to me you’re splitting hairs on this one, something you never do. When the issue involves someone 15 and 40 guess who is responsible? And I already answered you about ‘making the request.’ If she made her wishes known to him, an inappropriate thing, she is asking.”
The point is that none of the news sources QUEERTY gave said the aunt made a request or even “made her wishes known” before he offered to be a sperm donor (I presume “made her wishes known” would be for a specific individual or class of individuals that the kid matched, not a general statement that they were going to use artificial insemination, which could in fact mean going to a hospital with an attached sperm bank). All you had to do is to produce a link to an article backing up what you claimed. The issue is that you are guessing and passing your guesses off as facts.
If people want to pass judgment on what transpired, they should start by getting an accurate description of what actually happened. One can argue about what “moral standards” we should agree to, but we should not use real people as fictional characters in some imagined scenario that one might like to talk about.
Then you said, “Ok, I didn’t think I needed to spell it out, especially to someone of your intelligence but ok. The kids will not be 3 forever…… and other kids being what they are can tease relentlessly. (You think they’re going to forget this was all over the news?)” LOL – the “other kids” – who would be in the same age group, are too young to follow the news. By the time they are old enough to tease about it, everyone will have forgotten. This is a news story that gets an attention span of a week for most of the public, maybe less.
As a test, do you think any of Gary Hart’s children or grandchildren were teased about Donna Rice years after the nationally publicized scandal sank his run for the presidency? If so, I’d like to see the evidence of that.
B
In No. 45 · Jaroslaw wrote, “B – If I haven’t read all your other posts, I’ve read a ton of them and it seems to me you’re splitting hairs on this one, something you never do. When the issue involves someone 15 and 40 guess who is responsible? And I already answered you about ‘making the request.’ If she made her wishes known to him, an inappropriate thing, she is asking.”
The point is that none of the news sources QUEERTY gave said the aunt made a request or even “made her wishes known” before he offered to be a sperm donor (I presume “made her wishes known” would be for a specific individual or class of individuals that the kid matched, not a general statement that they were going to use artificial insemination, which could in fact mean going to a hospital with an attached sperm bank). All you had to do is to produce a link to an article backing up what you claimed. The issue is that you are guessing and passing your guesses off as facts.
If people want to pass judgment on what transpired, they should start by getting an accurate description of what actually happened. One can argue about what “moral standards” we should agree to, but we should not use real people as fictional characters in some imagined scenario that one might like to talk about.
Then you said, “Ok, I didn’t think I needed to spell it out, especially to someone of your intelligence but ok. The kids will not be 3 forever…… and other kids being what they are can tease relentlessly. (You think they’re going to forget this was all over the news?)” LOL – the “other kids” – who would be in the same age group, are too young to follow the news. By the time they are old enough to tease about it, everyone will have forgotten. This is a news story that gets an attention span of a week for most of the public, maybe less.
As a test, do you think any of Gary Hart’s children or grandchildren were teased about Donna Rice years after the nationally publicized scandal sank his run for the presidency? If so, I’d like to see the evidence of that.
Jaroslaw
I think someone else is posting for “B” ’cause this is out of control and completely unlike him. So……if the aunt didn’t make her wishes known – what are you saying : the boy just walked up to her said, “hey, Auntie, I’ve discovered jacking off and uh, I just have all this extra sperm I’m not using – would you like some to start a family?” COME ON! Of course she made her wishes known to him. But in the most technical sense, you are right: no, we don’t know exactly what happened since we weren’t there and it is not in the articles.
As to the children, Gary Hart is in a totally different social & wealth circle than this guy NOT to mention this is extremely unusual or at least it would seem to be since it is a news item. IE – I don’t recall seeing ordinary things like “Man picks up newspaper off porch to read at breakfast” as a headline lately.
Jaroslaw
You also may be right that it will be forgotten by the time they’re school age. But it only takes ONE curious person to run accross it and make those kids very uncomfortable…
Jaroslaw
B – YOU CANNOT just gloss over what I said ‘when the issue involves someone 15 & 40, guess who is responsible?’ I just noticed that. That is absolutely relevant no matter what was in or omitted in the actual news stories.
GG
I just wish the mother is the one who are not related to him…