Today, Barack Obama‘s Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies announced that Pastor Rick Warren of the Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California has been chosen to give the invocation at January’s inauguration. Warren was a vocal supporter of Proposition 8, saying during the election:
“There is no reason to change the universal, historical definition of marriage to appease 2% of our population. This is one issue that both Democrats and Republicans can agree on. Both Barack Obama and John McCain have publicly opposed the redefinition of marriage to include so-called ‘gay marriage.’ Even some gay leaders, like Al Rantel of KABC oppose watering down the definition of marriage.”
Barack Obama’s decision to allow a direct enemy of gays and lesbians to officiate at his inauguration isn’t just alarming, it’s outrageous and indefensible. We call on President-Elect Barack Obama to rescind his offer to Rev. Warren immediately.
We were early supporters of Barack Obama and your editor first endorsed the candidate in October of 2007, when his candidacy was considered quixotic and unwinnable. What appealed to us then, as it does now, is Obama’s commitment to move past partisan divides and govern from a common center, to choose hope over hate, to practice a politics of inclusion instead of one of division. The selection of Rev. Warren runs counter to everything Obama’s candidacy promised.
We understand the political appeal of Rev. Warren. He’s been dubbed ‘America’s Preacher’ and both Obama and McCain attended a debate sponsored by his Saddleback Church during the election. Perhaps, looking back at the last pastor Obama associated himself with, he sought to choose a comforting figure to reassure wary conservatives. Obama is a shrewd politician and Warren’s selection is one transparently made for political considerations.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Some will argue that Warren’s inclusion is a purely symbolic act and what matters is what Obama does for gays and lesbians while in office, but as Obama has said himself, “words matter.” Obama’s pick confers a legitimacy on Warren’s homophobic statements and there’s not a single reason why the LGBT community should consider this anything other than a slap in the face. Make no mistake, Rick Warren is an enemy of the gay community–and today, Obama has gone further than any other person could in legitimizing Warren’s homophobic beliefs.
The Atlantic’s Marc Ambinder says the decision to give Rev. Warren the nation’s pulpit is:
Not so much pandering as it is Obama’s deft manipulation of the politics of symbolism. Obviously, Obama disagrees with Rick Warren on important issues. He has said so, many times, and publicly. And he agrees with him on other important issues. And ignoring something like Warren, a mainstream figure who commands the respect of million of Americans, would be foolish. Obama’s message is: Rick Warren is a part of Obama’s America, too.
That’s fine, but without a single LGBT person in the Cabinet, it seems that while Barack Obama’s America includes Rick Warren, gays and lesbians are conspicuously absent.
UPDATE: Parag Mehta is Obama’s LGBT liaison on the transition team. His email is [email protected]
othniel
This is yet another slap in the face to Obama’s LGBT supporters. Appeasing the Religious Right is more important for now, so STFU and go hide behind the Lincoln Memorial until we get around to calling you.
Oh well. Hope was indeed fun for a while.
audiored
There is this proposal for protesting this asshat if you’re going to inauguration…
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/17/19110/850/59/674222
Brian
It also shows what a fame-whore hypocrite Rick Warren is. Obama and Warren disagree on many issues, including abortion. If Warren were principled in his beliefs, he would turn down the invitation to participate in the inauguration, in the same way that if Obama were principled in his, he wouldn’t have extended the invitation in the first place.
Tim
While I disagree with Rick Warren’s positions and would’ve preferred someone else to deliver the convocation at the inaugural (Gene Robinson would’ve been awesome), it’s become tedious to me for the gay community to get distracted and worked up over straw man issues like this that, at the end of the day, are inconsequential to moving our rights forward. A religious figure that doesn’t support gay marriage. Whaaa? Come on y’all.
Harness that wasted energy protesting Rick Warren and instead work supporting grassroots efforts to bring more allies to the fold Lobby your representatives. Or better yet, let’s work on getting more LGBT presence in the city councils, in state houses and in Congress. Pouting and screaming will only get us so far. Eyes on the prize, everyone.
Ben
Direct enemy? As slap in the face? Obama has said many times before where he stands on the redefinition of marriage. He pushes civil unions. Big surprise. Is it really that utrageous and indefensible that this guy is one of the majority who also feels that way? Furthermore, you can NOT pretend like that seat was going to be filled by a LGBT person, so don’t even insinuate that by acting like this is his direct slap to LGBT community. Absolutely ridiculous.
The Gay Numbers
This is a really piss poor decision. There are many Christian ministers who bring a message of hope out there. Yet, he chooses this guy who is not only a homophobe, but anti-progressive? I don’t get it. His first real fumble.
Roy Pyatt
Well once again I say when we accept the lesser of two evils we still get evil.
I unfortunatly voted for Barak Obams and was happy to do so knowing that he was just the lesser of the two evils.
I will continue being second class citizen because I’m a great big nelly fag.
The Gay Numbers
@Ben: There is a large space between finding someone who is marriage affirming versus the polite bigotry of Warren. There are preachers he could have choosen that were no controversial at all. I don’t get these posts saying that in effect either he had to choose an out and out anti-progressive bigot or he had to choose no one. That’s an insult to all those other Christians out there who are not bigots or anti progressive.
John
Jesus H. Christ. This country sucks. And you gotta love that Democratic Party. In four years, they’re going to tell us Obama’s first term was just a “test run.”
Equality is coming in 2016! (i.e. never)
Please donate more money! (Obama needs to tip his pastors)
Please volunteer to turn America “blue” again! (blue like the homophobic states of California, Florida, and Virginia)
Please vote for us! (BTW you have no other choice)
Four more years! Four more years! (same old, same old)
Leland Frances
FIRST, Parag Mehta is a gay MAN, not a woman, but write away, write away. I’m confidant he’s as outraged by this as anyone.
Ambinder, on the other hand, is too quick to defend such slimeball tactics. He says, “Rick Warren is a part of Obama’s America, too.” Therefore, homohatred, sexism, murder in the name of religion, and willful scientific ignorance is a part of Obama’s America, too.
Clearly a few don’t get how HUGE this is. It makes McClurkingate look like a pimple on a gnat.
There will probably be well over a million people actually there watching the swearing in. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS MORE will be watching on TV from all around the world.
To give Warren this exalted, coveted, platinum platform is to legitimize EVERYTHING he stands for, everything he has said, e.g., equating gay marriage equality with incest and pedophilia; denouncing stem cell research and a woman’s right to choose; saying that he thinks God would be fine with our assassinating the president of Iran. Who “has said that the real difference between James Dobson and himself is one of tone rather than substance.” And he is just one with different OPINIONS, he nakedly lies when he claims that the Bible condemns gay marriage when it says NOTHING about gay marriage; that we are out to silence antigay churches when all we are trying to do is prevent them from turning America into a theocracy. “Attention! This is Pastor Warren. The next stoning in front of the Lincoln Memorial will commence at Noon eastern time. BYOR: Bring Your Own Rocks!”
The next President of the United States is effectively CROWNING WARREN a religious giant before this sure to be recordbreaking audience, annointing him as an honored prophet who represents not just Obama but the US.
This is the kind of thing petty pandering that BUSH would have done or McSHAME! It literally boggles my mind.
Closing the inaugration with the magnificent and pro gay equality Rev. Joseph Lowery, whom I’ve met, giving the benediction does NOT wash away this insult, this STUPIDITY that imagines that throwing the American Taliban this golden bone will get them to embrace Obama. It will not.
What was that about the Clintons being masters of toxic triangulation?
Craig H
Yeah, redefining marriage for just 2.0% of the population would be kind of dumb (before I get flamed, that was sarcasm). Just like redefining marriage in the 1960’s for interracial marriage was dumb? Interracial marriage only constitutes just shy of 3% of all marriages in the US. Man, if we only had 1 percent more!
Michael W.
We should Call Out Gay on Inauguration Day. That oughta learn ’em.
Christian
I emailed the Transition team to express my disappointment and I encourage you to do the same.
Leland Frances
RE “stand and turn your back” at Warren. Check out the link below to a picture that will remind everyone what the crowd at an inauguration looks like. 90% will ALREADY BE STANDING because the organizers don’t provide CHAIRS for anyone but VIPS.
http://clinton1.nara.gov/White_House/Family/images/raw/INAU19.GIF
There’s every reason to believe that there will be twice as many there as Clinton’s huge crowd. They’ll be standing together as close as possible not just to hear/see better but for warmth. DC is typically FREEZING in January.
The only way any gay protestors would stand out in such a sea of people is if each held aloft a rainbow flag or huge balloon which few are likely willing to do [assuming Security would let them].
BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD!
chgo921
Though in scare quotes, your title calling Rick Warren BO’s ‘New Pastor’ is misleading. Asking someone to give an invocation doesn’t make that person your pastor.
Having said that, my heart agrees with the rest of your post. My head, however, wants to agree with poster No. 4. I’d rather wait until actual policies are proposed before getting too worked up. Given the campaign he ran, I’m also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. When I thought he should have done X, he did Y — and it worked. I’m hoping they are more long-term in their political thought process and view than I am.
Donna Brazile noted on CNN today that she told a largely African-American audience last week that BO is the president-elect of the United States, not just black America. On a similar note, he’s also not just the president for gay America.
Now that I’ve tried to be rational, back to my heart. Rick Warren? WTF? Enough with the Team of Rivals crap. At some point, he has to stop taking for granted the people who worked their asses off to get him elected.
He didn’t get my vote because he’s a Democrat. He didn’t get my vote because he opposes GWB’s war of choice. He didn’t get my vote because he’s an African-American. He got my vote (and a couple of my dollars!) because he inspired me. He got my vote because I thought he would be more progressive in his policies. He got my vote because I believed!
I know he said this during the campaign, but enough of trying to prove he can bring people together. He won nearly 67 million votes. Message received.
Maybe it’s shallow of me, but at some point I want him to say FU to some of his (and our!) enemies. Tell Lieberman he’s a whiner who now must pay. Tell Rick Warren and the rest of the right wing cabal that they’re too divisive to play ANY role in the administration — even the inauguration. And while you’re at it, tell Hillary it’s not all about her and whether she’ll accept or not; it’s about our country. There are other people qualified to be SOS. (Yes, I know I’m pissing off A LOT of readers right now with the Hillary thing. I’m pissed and on a roll.) Stop going out of your way to include people who don’t like you or your policies.
Instead of trying to win their support, he needs to try keeping mine.
Sorry for the long rant.
Wayne
Obama has never been a friend to the Gay community. Why should anyone be shocked? Didn’t the Donnie McClurkin fiasco and Obama’s repeated refrain that “marriage is between a man and a wowman” send up any red flags?
Michael W.
“Rick Warren? WTF? Enough with the Team of Rivals crap.”
If you think Rick Warren is or was ever a rival of Obama then you weren’t paying attention. They’ve been close for sometime now. He attended the Saddleback Forum as a personal favor to Reverend Warren.
Rock
Let’s just see if Obama overturns DOMA or Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.
If those are still around in 4 years, then we can be really pissed.
The Gay Numbers
@Michael W.: He attended for political reasons. I don’t agree with this choice here, but changing history of why things happened is not useful either. This here is a political decision that was not necessary. It was choice. A bad one.
boytroy
We cannot look to politicians to hand us anything. What have they given us thus far?
If we do not learn that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor but must be demanded then we will sit where we are or maybe even further back 50 years from now. We are entering a time of economic turmoil. If you look at history it is during these times that citizens and governments become more oppressive. Everyone starts looking for someone other than themselves to lay blame for the negative conditions and being that people are superstitious and religious (no difference really) they come to believe that the great old man in the sky is pissed caused to many people are enjoying there carnal nature. People displace there anger on what they perceive to be the weakest group, and now that is us. But the oppressed can fight back and that is what we must do. Don’t sit around and wait for Jesus, I mean Obama, to “save us”.
It will be us to save ourselves and we need not act like victims when it comes to Obama because he has given us plenty of reason not to place our faith in him.
Michael W.
@The Gay Numbers: He attended for political reasons? Says who?
luke
Why is anyone surprised? Democrats always play to the gays (i.e Clintons) but never do anything for us. This isn’t that shocking at all.
Dawster
okay, wasn’t the fact that Bush didn’t have anyone from the opposite side of the aisle one of the MAIN problems with his crone-istic presidency?
come on… Obama HAS to have people from the opposite side. he also has to appease SOME of the right republicans who voted for him – especially in preparation for the next election. if i were president, i would do the same thing.
i do not, whatsoever, have a problem with such an anti-gay person on the cabinet. i have a problem if Obama listens to him and starts going anti-gay on us – and he’s not in office, so WE HAVE TO WAIT TO ISSUE JUDGMENT. he is not “the new pastor” – he is one voice among many, and if Obama is going to be president over ALL of America, he’s going to have to listen to the nut-bags as well as everyone else.
plus, Hillary Clinton is going to be on his staff and she’s anti-gay-marriage.
mark
HOPE…..4 straight men ONLY
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-8/1210139/hope1.jpg
The Gay Numbers
@Michael W.: At the time, it could be argued that he was going after evangelical voters (not all are anti-gay or focus on social conservativsim) , and saw the debate as chance to speak even on a platform of which he did not agree with the debate moderator. That was him walking into Warren’s neighborhood to sell his position or convert people to his way of thinking.
Now, however, his choosing Warren is bringing Warren into Obama’s neighborhood when it’s not necessary to do so. He’s not trying to convince evangelicals of his own position. He’s giving legitimacy to Warren in front of a group greater than evangelicals. Thus my problem with it.
Michael W.
@The Gay Numbers: Yes, I suppose it could be argued that way. It could also be argued that Barack Obama did it as a personal favor to Rick Warren.
It’s not like the Saddleback Forum is a legitimate institution of presidential politics that can’t be dismissed. Rick Warren up and decided to bring them together at random to discuss religion in a way that made many Obama supporters like myself uncomfortable. He didn’t have to do it, he CHOSE to. Barack Obama walked into Warren’s neighborhood and legitimized him in front of the WORLD as the sole evangelical leader who could bring these two powerful opponents together. Remember this was a time when McCain wanted more debates and Obama adamantly refused, wanting to strictly adhere to the four official presidential debates. Yet he veered off course to attend that forum, injecting a healthy dose of religiosity into the American presidency and demonstrating how strong a grip Christianity and that fat fuck Warren in particular have on our country.
But you wish to write that off under “politics as usual” so you can excuse his stupid decision and remain happily in love with your savior. That’s fine.
Let’s not forget that Obama spoke highly of Rick Warren years before he ran, shouting him out in his second book as a positive influence.
Maybe, just maybe Barack Obama likes this guy and agrees with his message. Maybe it’s not triangulation or any other political bullshit. Obama has gone out of his way time and time again to show us how much he adores good old Reverend Warren.
Dawster
(and as far as i know Obama doesn’t have any strong anti-gay voices on his cabinet… right? we are getting upset at what… exactly? A preacher doing something that shouldn’t be allowed in government procedure ANYWAY…
it’s all politics. what is going to be a more lasting impression to our community? and antigay preacher giving the invocation at the inauguration or the repeal of DODT? focus people… focus…)
Splurge
How could Obama’s decision be a betrayal to the gay community? He never promised you anything and any gay person who thought Obama viewed gay people as equal and deserving the same rights he has wasn’t paying attention during the campaign.
Honeymoon over yet, sheep?
The Gay Numbers
@Michael W.: It’s triangulation. Liking or hating someone rarely affects politicians since I see them as mostly faking emotions to get what they want anyway.
I no more believe Obama’s against gay marriage than I believed it of Bill Clinton. I think they will toss us under the bus to get some other political capital versus the GOP will run the bus over us, back it up, and run it over us again and again to just make sure we are dead because they are bored. Here he choose for symbolism to toss us under the bus. Yes, this is a crass view of politics, but that’s why I defend making gay people making choices that will give us a better chance of winning our rights.
If he delivers on DOMA, DADT and ENDA- then I can get over the triangulation. It’s not a matter of belief- but it is a matter of giving us the best chance we have with the two party American system.
The Gay Numbers
this ” but that’s why I defend making gay people making choices that will give us a better chance of winning our rights.”
should read
” but that’s why I defend gay people making choices that will give us a better chance of winning our rights.”
Thom Freeheart
Obama is counting on us to forget this.
Will we?
TheInformer4U
While we’re at denouncing Obama, lets start denouncing the abominate racial relations in the gay community. We are not a unified community!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_LGBT_community
http://www.colorq.org/Articles/article.aspx?d=2000&x=colorqra
http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/2005/05/04/gay_racism_in_t
rickroberts
And you all are surprised why? Weren’t you paying attention during the Donnie McClurkin affair?
I did end up voting for the dude just because Palin scared the living shit out of me. Before Palin, I was prepared to let McCain be a caretaker President for four years until Hillary could have another go at it.
We are suckers. Don’t blame me! I voted for Hillary!
Kid A
I just saw a teaser clip for some show where Warren is heard saying (to paraphrase): “God didn’t create the financial crisis, we turned away from God’s principles.”
I don’t know if he’s trying to neutralize the Problem of Evil or if he’s just a fucking tool, but hearing that made my blood boil. Why do we even have an invocation at the inauguration? I completely supported Obama during the campaign, but since I find blatant and influential religiosity to be the biggest problem in our social politics, this is very disappointing.
Carla Cartouff
Rick Warren is one of those guys who is smiling when he stabs you in the back.
And stab in the back is what he did to lesbian and gay couples and FAMILIES in CA when he actively supported and donated to Proposition hate8.
All these posts, especially by straight commentators, laughing, ostensibly saying “OK little fags, don’t get your nelly little panties in a wad over this Warren thing, it’s not THAT big a deal, m-kay?” makes me want to puke.
In my mind, having someone who was an advocate for legal discrimination, for treating gays and lesbians as second class citizens IS a big deal. It’s not like Rev. Rick disagrees with our choice of wallpaper, he is AGAINST CIVIL rights for gay and lesbian couples and families.
It is inconceivable to me how a group as sharp as Obama admin can’t see what an insult this is. The whole premise of the Obama candidacy was to have an America were we all are Americans.
Rick Warren doesn’t view gays and lesbians as equal Americans.
Jason
I’m going to throw out an unpopular idea and say that I don’t mind that he chose an Evangelical minister. I buy into what he’s trying to do vis-a-vis building a “big tent” and by necessity that has to include both us and lots of people we don’t particularly see eye to eye with. It’s possible those things could change over time if we’re all under the right tent, yada yada…
…but this PARTICULAR guy is an egregious choice. We’re still a little raw about the whole Prop 8 defeat, and here we have the guy we all kicked ass for suddenly asking one of our biggest enemies to go speak to everyone. I agree, we want people of faith to be part of America, we want to respect them as much as we want to be respected. But why choose *this* guy? Why not a less-politicized figure–a Joel Osteen-type, or something, instead?
rickroberts
No, I don’t respect them anymore than I could respect any thinking grown person who believes in the Easter Bunny or a flat earth. I respect their right to believe it, but I don’t respect the person. There is a difference. Back to Hitchens: Religion Poisons Everything.
Dale
Obama is a very intelligent man – I believe Warren is an excellent choice. Face it, the right winged fundies can’t stand the thought of an Obama presidency. The republicans pander to the right winged fundies. By choosing Warren there will certainly be some “healing” with the fundies to some extent. This is necessary for him to garner at least some support from the republicans to actually get things done in what has become a complete disaster of a once powerful US of A, and what better way to accomplish this than with a “moderate” fundie?
Don’t expect to have the gay rights issues tackled on Jan. 21st. There are much more pressing issues facing the US right now. His plan is to tackle these issues, gain trust and popularity, etc. while gaining the respect of the evangelical (republican) community as much as possible. THEN the environment will be favorable to tackle our issues.
John
I’d like to point out one thing to the poor souls who believe the Donkey Propaganda that this Congress will repeal DADT anytime soon:
The votes simply aren’t there!
The Democrats and their allies in the media don’t want to tell you that. But if you count the votes yourself, you’ll quickly discover that far fewer than 60 Senators support repealing DADT. At least half of the Democratic senators elected since 2006 are either explicitly pro-DADT or completely silent on the issue. Among the more prominent voices for keeping DADT are Claire McCaskill (D-MO) and Jim Webb (D-VA).
Moreover, co-sponsorship of similar legislation in the House has never exceeded 150, including the 5-6 Republicans who’ve signed on. Even if we assume all 21 of those newly elected Democrats in 2008 are for repeal and that there are a couple dozen (24-36) fence sitters who’ll fall our way when the chips fall, you still haven’t got anywhere close to the 218 needed for passage.
And if you think Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama didn’t know about that while they were campaigning for your votes on a promise to repeal DADT, you must be taking an extra dose of those stupid pills.
The Gay Numbers
You do not need 60 to repeal. You need 51, and there is little chance of a fillabuster being sustainable given public support for repealing DADT. DADT is not gay marriage. The American public supports it by over 70 percent, including many conservatives.
michael
This choice is about more than Rick Warren being against Gay Marriage, this about a man who equates us with pedophiles and sex offenders. If Obama had of selected a preacher who viewed African Americans as substandard human beings, and there are plenty out there who do, we would not even be having this debate. People, you can whore yourself out to Obama without any proof whatsoever they he will do anything for us, you can make excuses all day long, but he continually shows in action that his words mean nothing. Trust is something earned, not given, at least by intelligent people and Obama has done nothing for us that warrants our trust. Once again I will lay my head on my pillow tonight and thank God that within 6 months I will be a Canadian citizen. I always wondered why the film Zeitgeist showed Obama in derogatory fashion, no different than Bush or any other president, now I know because he is no different. Go ahead and be seduced by words and ignore actions.
michael
One more thing, the fact that the thread about Queerty’s” new look has received over 180 comments from readers and something as important as this has received just over 40 speaks volumes about where gay peoples priorities are. When more people are outraged to the point of making comments about a site redesign verses the president of the United States choosing a bigot for his inauguration we should not wonder why
we are so disrespected and disregarded by society. I guess there really are no victims.
Steve
Rick Warren is a hateful bigot. By choosing him, Barack Obama has clearly stated that Barack Obama is a bigot. He seems to be less hateful than the Republican bigot who ran for President this year, but a bigot none the less.
I think the way forward is for Barney Frank to start putting riders on every bill that passes through the finance committee. To start, the defense budget could also amend DADT to remove the DT part, and to state that gays who do tell shall not be discharged.
Hammar
What is the matter with you gay Americans? You ought to be glad, for you got what you voted for. “Change you can believe in”. You did not ask: change what by whom into what? “Yes we can”. You did not ask: can do what? Now you got the hollowness and vanity and deceit such empty slogans stand for. Now be happy, you avoided the moronic Sarah Palin who thinks homosexuality is a matter of choice (omg), you got rid of a probable well-meaning, but debilitated McCain, so now enjoy the shadiness and closet skeletons of Barack Hussein Mohammed Obama. And for the record, I am gay and I do not know which ones are worse, the American politicians or the European money-grabbing drooling assholes. Suffice to say, I did vote for neither.
Herbert Wassinger
Obama will respond to protest. Daily Kos has good ideas for protest at the inauguration. Turn your backs/bright colored paper bags over heads, etc.
In the meantime, we should all email the transition team, and any and all of the selectees to the Obama cabinet. Call Hillary’s office in New York and tell her that you are outraged!!!
Ben
Queerty, can you post about who was appointed for the benediction, please? Hufftington Post has:
“Indeed, lost in the hubbub about Warren, is the fact that the man tasked with overseeing the benediction is a icon within progressive politics. Rev. Joe Lowery, a hero of the civil rights movement and co-founder of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference with Martin Luther King famously called out President George W. Bush during Coretta Scott King’s funeral. He also is a supporter of same-sex marriage. But he is not garnering the same attention as Warren for his inauguration role.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/17/rick-warren-obama-invocat_n_151877.html
Wayne
Obama has long had friendships with anti-gay bigots. And that’s one habit Obama does not want to “Change”. Shades of Donnie McClurkin all over again. I wonder what all those folks who worked on Obama’s gay outreach during the election feel like with all that egg on their face?
I hate to be the one to say I told you so…..
Tallskin
Dunno why you’re all surprised. Obama is religious and all religious people are, at root, utter nutjobs -they have to be to believe in an invisible friend, a sky pixie, AND they always unite with each other against gays!
Maybe your long term goal should be to wipe the scourge of religion(s) from the US and the world.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@michael:
Exactly!?
For real?? It’s like come on people, it’s the frigging re-designing..NOT that big a deal in the grand scale of things…
Sheez..
Celo
Here’s a wake up call…most people in this country don’t believe in gay marriage…sorry but it’s a fact.
This is a Christian country and most Christians are against the idea of gays marrying. I am a firm believer in gay rights, just NOT marriage.
If you’re going to preach tolerance, it must extend to people who don’t agree with you.
Human Rights Campaign…shouldn’t exclude heteros or evangelicals.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Celo:
Sigh.
But do YOU think it’s like ‘incest or pedophilia’?? I think that’s why people are pissed off.
Get over your deluded high horse. As a majority in the US (heteros & the chritiains) can’t cry like babies when a tiny persecuted minority (like the gays), decide to stand up for themselves against people comparing the wanting for marriage as being pedophiles??
jel1955
I honestly do not understand why this choice by the Obamaites should surprise or confuse anyone. Obama is almost slavishly pursuing the “Big Tent” concept he espoused during his campaign. When one looks at his cabinet and staff choices, one sees clearly that the man is planning to get some things done very quickly. That means he has to include evangelicals in a really big way, and Warren is one evangelical leader Obama has determined he can work with (read “use”) to get the Obama agenda through Congress and enacted into law.
Folks, we live in the US of A, where queers are still considered less than full humans. We have many years to go before people like Obama (read “centrists”) will truly, fully embrace us and the fact that we don’t do things with our dicks and pussies that they do with their equipment. We’re still oh so exotic for most Americans, we out GLBT folks.
It is promising that Lowery is giving the benediction for the ceremony. It seems tolerance and inclusion for all will be given the last word by the religious participants in the ceremony.
I’m actually most bothered by the fact that Obama is including religion in the damned ceremony. When are we going to be given true religious freedom (read freedom from religion) in this country!?
I’m as impatient as the next person, but really the only hope people of my generation have is to immigrate to Canada or Europe. We’re not going to see full citizenship for GLBT people in our lifetimes. It will continue to get better, but we’re not going to live to see ourselves treated as full US citizens if we’re in our 50’s.
Obama is not a savior. He’s a pragmatist. We all need to grow up and realize that all politicians are going to sell us down the river untill we’ve convinced the majority of Americans that it is in all their personal self-interest to support full civil rights to us as a group.
Good news is that we might actually gain preferential status at that point! You know how Americans love to feel bad about the discriminatory practices of previous generations.
Celo
I’m hardly on a high horse. I think that Prop 8 was a poorly written bill. I’m all for people (any people) having rights to visit their loved ones in hospitals and adopting children into loving families. Marriage for me personally is a bit of a stretch. I’m sorry if I offend but that’s honestly how I feel.
The gays were outraged that Prop 8 passed but where was the organization that was done by the gay community to educate people? 40 years is a long time to struggle for equality but compaired to the civil rights movement…it’s a very young movement.
I have no doubt that the time will come however I see nothing wrong with Pastor Warren presiding over a small part of the Inauguration. Tolerance is tolerance.
I think the gays should save their righteous indignation for a time when some action has been taken against them and not feel so slighted that a Pastor was invited to a party. Warren was not appointed to Obama’s cabinet so let’s all relax a bit.
Gregoire
Christ, you would think that Obama appointed Rick Warren to the Supreme Court with the reactions around here. You queens enjoy thrashing yourselves against your fainting couches yet again. Maybe Obama should vet all his decisions with Queety forum commentators. Once again, one of the reasons the gays lost in the Prop 8 fiasco — nag about the little stuff, neglect the bigger picture — becomes apparent here.
Bill Perdue
I’ll save my “I told you so”‘ for later. There’s worse to come… (0.00 / 0)
People are saying “This is unbelievable.”
No, it’s not. It’s par for the course.
Obama insured his election by reaffirming his bigot bona fides at Warren’s Saddleback Forum. He did it by saying ‘god’s in the mix’. That brought our bigot voters by the hundreds of thousands who voted for him and for 8, 2, and 102. Obama’s simply returning the favor Warren give him for an opening to a wider bigot vote base. It was probably a deal made at the time.
Only gullible people, aka Obama voters, are shocked by this. For the rest of us it’s all part of a pattern beginning with Obama’s primary season revival meetings starring bigoted scum like MaryMary and McClurkin. Throughout the campaign his message was the same; “Love the sinner”, i.e., no unnecessary constitutional amendments but “Hate the sinner”, i.e., no right to get married because “god’s in the mix” and ‘he’s’ a bigot too and the law should mimic the bigots.
Obama and the Democrats are right centrists and will continue to provide us with proof of that after January 20th. People who support the Democrat Party support a party that panders to bigots, will enlarge the war and gives trillions to the uberrich. That’s a right centrist agenda and those who support it are right centrists because they support it.
We got treated to another look at the undercarriage of the bigot bus and some of us gullibly helped another bigoted Democrat ‘friend’ get elected. So what else is new? But with Democrats like that who needs Republicans?
Celo
What’s wrong with being Christian and believing in God?
“Be tolerant of us but we hate your God”? Is that how it goes?
Hello people most people in this country are Christian.
Berry
Leland Frances – great post. I am extremely angry and disappointed about this. I’m also irritated by Obama’s desparate need to try to please the entire country and be liked by everyone. That’s impossible and a waste of time. Instead of pandering to people who did not vote for him, perhaps he should make decisions his base would agree with.
I live in DC and was planning on going to inauguration but I’m so upset by the choice of Warren that I don’t think I can handle going.
Wayne
A Big Tent philosophy? They really think we are stupid. If that’s the case, where is the invitation for the Grand Wizard of the KKK to attend?
seitan-on-a-stick
O’Bummer – I am officially boycotting the Inauguration of the first African-American president, President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama because of his choice of an anti-gay pastor Rick Warren. How can I protect my Gay family when the White House is still a theocracy, only the faces have changed! Register with the Green Party for all-gay inclusiveness and contact your local representatives to express your outrage. We must not allow this administration to keep us as second-class citizens denied civil rights and legal equality.
Cali Gays and our Progressive allies should be protesting Rick Warren’s Mega-mall Church in California!!!
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Bill Perdue:
So you don’t think this Dem party under Obama has been the most gay friendly in terms of policies or recognition?
When Obama told an all black church that it was wrong to be homophobic and they all booed at him but then said it again to help them see?
This is a bad choice but I smell politics. I smell ‘nudge, nudge, wink, wink’. I smell you have to sleep with the enemy to ever make changes in politics…
No?
Robert, NYC
I only voted for this clown to get the current regime out of office, nothing more. Clinton and Obama were slim pickings to say the least, neither of whom supports full equality for LGBT people.
I think we should stop this habit of having our votes taken for granted and the Dems need to be put on notice, right NOW! I’m tired of delay tactics, excuses, year after year, decade after decade. If Obama doesn’t deliver on DADT among other equality issues, then come 2012…..he and the rest of them can go fuck themselves. Can you imagine if the entire gay voting block got behind a third party, such as the Greens? The impact that would have on any election would be humongous and a force to be reckoned with, not to mention our economic clout by pouring our precious resources of time and money behind a party that genuinely believes in equality.
Since Prop. Hate passed, it is even more incumbent to start out by going after these religious cults (all religions are cults in my book) by demanding the removal of their tax exempt status when they meddle in the political process, already a violation of the IRS code. If there truly is separation of church and state, then why should a religious cult be treated as above the law on taxation? I don’t get it. To me, they are businesses and should be subject to taxation like the rest of us, we being the only group that is not fully represented under the constitution.
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Celo:
You make some great points. I still don’t think choosing this guy is about tolerance but that he represents a large percentage of your country kinda says it all I guess.
Maybe he does deserve the spotlight…
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
@Celo:
Also, this smells of Tony Blair! It was exactly like this in the UK…
Tom
Why some gays get so twisted and contorted whenever someone does not support gay marriage escapes me. I’m gay and I do not support gay marriage. It has set gay equality back by about 20 years. The time was not right then nor right now for it. So what do I care that this preacher is against gay marriage..so is about 70% of the country.
Shannon
This is why I’m a Green. Their platform actually comes out and says they support gay marriage and equal protections and rights under the law.
Bill Perdue
@seitan-on-a-stick:
Is this the same seitan-on-a-stick who said McCain would pander to bigots and hysterically predicted that he’d install a fascist dictatorship?
Is this the same seitan-on-a-stick who said that Obama would be our best friend?
Is this the same seitan-on-a-stick who still doesn’t have a clue?
Yes it is. The mess made by seitan-on-a-stick and other Democrats is theirs to wallow in and take full responsibility for. Don’t try to weasel out of ask us to ignore your past.
Robert, NYC
Tom, you’re entitled not to support marriage equality, but just because you don’t, why would you want to deny us the right to marry if we so choose? Even if you don’t believe in marriage equality, you mean to say you would consider voting for hate legislation such as Proposition 8 denying more than 25 million people the same rights as everybody else? Nobody is forcing you to accept it, its about full equality, civil rights as tax payers and full representation guaranteed by the constitution. We are the only group that isn’t, by the way. Its not redefining marriage, its just expanding it. Rights should never be contracted but expanded to include others, not exclude them. Its a violation of the 14th amendment to deny us full rights that marriage confers.
Robert, NYC
Shannon, I too am a Green. As far as I’m concerned, if Obama fails to get rid of DADT before 2012 and doesn’t enact ENDA by then, I will never vote for a democrat again.
To digress, since he’s for civil unions at the federal level, what is he going to do with the thousands of gay couples who married? Recognize those too at the federal level or convert them to civil unions? Its an explosive issue and he’s heading for defeat in 2012 if he doesn’t get his act together. If he chooses the latter, its going to ignite a firestorm of gay couples flocking to the two states that offer marriage, foregoing civil unions. Its going to be interesting to see how this pans out, if at all.
Leland Frances
Here’s another idea. I know that many of you, as I did, donated money to the Obama campaign.
Don’t just ask them to unsubscribe you from their continuing pitches for money, their premature pats on their own backs for whatever.
Write them now and DEMAND A REFUND. Seriously! And I seriously understand that we won’t get one. BUT it will tell them how many of us are PISSED, feel BETRAYED, and will NOT be donating to support his run for reelection in 2012.
Then perhaps Obama will FINALLY “get” that asking us to share a tent with Rick “gay marriage is just as bad as incest and pedophila” Warren is like asking women to share one with their rapists.
Or you can call their toll free number: 877-336-7200.
Trust me! Money talks louder in politics than anywhere else.
chuck
@Celo:
> “What’s wrong with being Christian and believing in God?”
Absolutely nothing, if they would just stay out of our faces…and our bedrooms.
> “”Be tolerant of us but we hate your God”? Is that how it goes?”
If Christians are going to be intolerant of gay people, then pray tell, why SHOULD gay be tolerant of them? One good turn deserves another, as the old axiom goes. You also reap what you sow, to quote another saw. I don;t make these up, BTW…you folks do.
> “Hello people most people in this country are Christian.”
Most people in this country are white. So what? What does that prove? Back int he day, they used to say that “Fifty million Frenchmen can’t be wrong”.
Guess what, they were. No one’s infallible. People can be wrong. And majority numbers prove absolutely nothing.
Now, give me an argument that proves that slavery was a good thing and that we should go back to it.
Christians backed that one too, you know?
John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)
You know, when you think about this….it kinda makes sense.
You have a young BLACK man-regardless of his intellect as that means SHIT-has being able to run for presidency…now not only is this incredible BUT there is no way he could’ve gotten these guys without touting x amount of evangelical pastors…
Fact.
YOU scratch my back and I scratch yours….’I WANT to speak for you @ the inauguaration and I will convince my flock that you are the best man for the job’…
Robert, NYC
Celo….for your information, civil marriage has absolutely NOTHING to do with christian or any other religious marriage. You don’t need a priest, rabbi, immam or any other cultist to perform a civil marriage ever, and the “god” is never mentioned in the ceremony. Further, government should not be in the business of issuing marriage licenses to people who have a religious ceremony. Let their denominations issue them.
Another thing, if your reason for not allowing marriage equality is based solely on procreation emanating from your christian cult belief system, then you’d better subscribe to the notion that no hetero couple should be allowed to marry if they choose not to procreate or can’t. Senior citizens beyond child-bearing years should be subjected to the same scrutiny. You can’t cherry pick your beliefs to suit your own discriminatory agenda. You either apply the same rules to everyone or you shut up altogether. Not allowing same sex couples to marry via civil marriage is a violation of the 14th amendment. Further, LGBT people are the only group in our country that does NOT have full represenation guaranteed by the constitution. Warren and his ilk can chant 5000 years of marriage history all he wants. Marriage is a business contract first and foremost. People marry first and foremost because they love each other, in some cultures it has nothing to do with love at all; procreating is a choice and not mandatory or a prerequisite of marriage. Go to a divorce lawywer and you’ll find that god and religion are definitely not in the mix or equated with anyone’s marriage.
Because you and most christian and other religious cultists base their argument against marriage equality on scripture, then you must also subscribe to polygamy, incest (Adam & Eve’s children would have had to have committed incest to have populated the planet), killing one’s wife for adultery, children for insolence…among others, all found in the old testament, the core of your belief system. Again, you can’t cherry pick if you believe the bible tells you so. You either believe it all or you don’t. You can’t have it both ways.
sparkle obama
@Wayne:
>>Obama has never been a friend to the Gay community. Why should anyone be shocked? Didn’t the Donnie McClurkin fiasco and Obama’s repeated refrain that “marriage is between a man and a wowman” send up any red flags?<<
just remember w*yne, that it was trash like you who hounded sen obama to leave his church of 20 years, whose liberal, educated, war veteran pastor jeremiah wright was a longtime supporter of gay rights and gay marriage.
obama’s church, trinity, was famous for holding gay commitment ceremonies and boasts a sizable gay presence in its congregation.
in the upcoming inauguration rev. wright might have been delivering the invocation instead of warren – and perhaps denouncing CA’s prop 8 from the (bully) pulpit –
but you and trash like you forced obama to “throw him under the bus”, as the children say nowadays…
shame on you, w*yne.
you singlehandedly destroyed the political credibility of the WOW report blog and you are an embarassment to the progressive GLBT communities.
get your r*cist, hateful head out of your blossomed, gaping ass and sit down, ho.
you are What’s Wrong w/ Gay America.
We voted obama into office as a president for *everyone* – including conservative christians desperate for a decent example .
obama is that decent example of a christian.
he is respectful and cautious and you need to be thankful for this.
you are too myopic and snobbish.
obama will never kiss your crepey, broadening, coffee-stained ass!
let the grownups do their job, asshole!
happy holidays!
Subra
@John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
Bruno
@Celo:
This is NOT a “Christian country,” no matter what the percentages are. The idea of separation of church and state was actually meant to protect the religious groups who founded this country from experiencing persecution by a religious-run government. You need to contemplate what that really means, for everyone.
Subra
Rick Warren is the Jeramiah Wright of the far right. Even after Limbaugh, Hannity and their ilk lambasted Obama for his association with Wright, I am surprised and perturbed that Obama is trying to covert their support.
Wayne
And Sparkle Obama is still defending the bigot lover. No shock there!
Wayne
And now Sparkle Obama wants Rev. Wright to speak instead?! Wright is just as much of a hateful bigot as Warren! Pastor Wright accused White people of creating AIDS as a weapon to murder the black race! Next Sparkle Obama will be calling for Donnie McClurkin to sing! Some people will never learn.
MCnNYC
And I’m TIRED of people thinking that support for GLOBAL AIDS is some indication of someone’s support of the GLBT community in the USA.
GLOBAL AIDS is not a gay issue.
GLOBAL HATE CRIMES now that is a gay issue.
All that federal money had some serious strings attached.
Dudous Migratorious
@Herbert Wassinger: Clinton has always stuck by the “marriage is between a man and a woman” thing as far as I know. Disappointing, but I believe doomed Kucinich was the only candidate who seemed to see that “separate but equal/civil union” was bull. The election once again was the evil of two lessers.
Mark in Indiana
@Robert NYC: if I could have your baby for that post, I would.
@celo: being a christian in this country must entitle you to a lifetime supply of pampers. First your sects shit all over us and then you cry because we made you dirty your diapers. If we dare assert our humanity, you all spit up the Jesus-ade all over the place. If we claim our rights UNDER THE CONSTITUTION (not the jesustution), you weep and gnash your teeth that you are either being discriminated against or your precious “values” are trampled on. If we want to get married, you lie and make up 5,000 years of Marriage History (please, prove that just for ONCE–JUST ONE TIME prove that marriage has been sacred forever and forever–or for that matter, an actual insitution). When a legislature hands us equality, you pout until it gets reviewed in a court. When the court grants our arguments for equality you threaten to kill “activist judges”. Then you make propositions for an election about our rights and truck in gazillions of sick cult money to pay for stripping us of equality.
One day, I just want to fucking vote on you.
Hawyer
Obama’s decision to have give this ignorant and inflammatory bigot a place of honor on the inaugural dais on this national day of change is stupefying. This IS NOT the type of change I voted for.
Fuck you Barack. The lifeboat is officially full and not only won’t you let me in – you’re hitting me over the head with a paddle. I’ll not be watching any of the festivities. You jerk.
Kdogg
I mean I understand the anger, but I still just hope that Obama is who he said he was. Luckily this isn’t a man being appointed to his administration. It’s an unfortunate symbol and I feel more than anyone else gays need to feel inclusion in his “New America.” He really missed the boat with this pick and I feel has underestimated the gay wounds being felt from November elections. I guess all I can do it hope he is a man of his word and will fight for gay rights as much as he is currently fighting to make evangelicals feel included in the “New America.” Thank God this man has no bearing on policy choices.
On a lighter note… it could be worse, it could be Reverend Wright.
Kdogg
P.S. I wrote to Obama’s Transition Team to express my downgraded hope for Obama’s presidency and informed them “all I want for Christmas is the right to visit my husband in the hospital.” Not that they seem to care.
JJJJ
What’s bad about it is that it’s a major U.S. event so it’s giving a lot of credibility to Warren’s image, and will probably gain him a million more followers. So many decent Christian ministers (or non-Christian clergy) Obama could have chosen…and he chooses THIS guy?!
Brian Miller
I wonder what Obama and his supporters would do if HRC was to, say, invite David Duke to keynote an inaugural celebration of its own, along with representatives from the Obama campaign?
After all, we have to be open to ALL points of view and cannot allow disagreements to divert us from our common purpose as Americans, right?
*puke*
Brian Miller
I wrote to Obama’s Transition Team to express my downgraded hope for Obama’s presidency and informed them “all I want for Christmas is the right to visit my husband in the hospital.” Not that they seem to care.
Hate to say “I told you so,” kids, but I told you so.
Over a year ago, I was getting called everything but a queer boy for pointing out that Obama was just Bill Clinton Part II, and the moment he had your money and votes, he’d be shanking you.
I am somewhat sympathetic to the plights of the newly entranced (those who are under, say, 25), but the rest of you knew what you were getting into… but decided to feast on Hope and Change (both buzzwords coined by the Clinton campaign). Y’all knew better and cannot say you are truly surprised.
Mike
Why are people surprised?
I said again and again: Obama is not a true LGBT supporter. He has avoided gay people, gay magazines and gay parades like the plague all his life.
HILLARY was the only true LGBT supporter we had in the presidential election. But you guys didn’t vote for her.
Bill Perdue
Kissing babies? Parades? Making empty promises in magazines.
Wonderful. Important. Decisive. Politics in action; but only for for children.
Obama did all that too. The fact is that the hope and change Clintons and Hopey Obama have the same bigoted views on same sex marriage – they’re against it because they’re superstition driven bumpkins.
Hillary made it as far as the State Dept, where she’ll to continue the genocide in Iraq begun by Bill Clinton and escalated by Cheney/Rove/Bush. Hillary wants to attack Iran and Hopey’d rather attack nuclear armed Pakistan. Not much sanity at State or the Whate House. LBJ and Nixon are smirking in their graves.
JJJJ
Brian Miller (though I did vote for Obama) I agree with you that there was an awful lot of gah-gah-eyed gay stupidity over Obama, which is excusable in those under 25 (who don’t know better) but in older guys who are supposed to be wiser…they just looked like retards.
Forrest
How dare Obama use the word “fierce” before asking our permission? That’s a patented gay word.
Secondly,while mentioning us in speeches is laudatory I don’t think it qualifies as being the straight version of Harvey Milk.
Robert, NYC
Mark in Indiana, I am flattered, and thank you.
Leland Frances…I like that idea of yours to ask the Obama campaign for our money back, ditto the Democratic National Committee. All of the equality organizations have got to stop making nice with the dems. They have to put them on notice as do we that none of them can take our votes for granted any more. From now on, I’m going to return to the Green Party, the only party that has earned my vote. We will get nothing from Obama or any democrat. They use us like doormats and then dump on us when they no longer have any use for us. Rick Warren was really the straw that broke the camel’s back. Obama…you are on notice……NEVER AGAIN!
sparkle obama
@Brian: @Brian: If Warren were principled in his beliefs, he would turn down the invitation to participate in the inauguration, in the same way that if Obama were principled in his, he wouldn’t have extended the invitation in the first place.<<
you kids are talking crazy.
obama represents the opposite of what you suggest, explicitly.
he stands for respecting and acknowledging differing ideas.
he follows lincoln’s ideal of a team of rivals.
plus, warren is performing a traditional, symbolic role during an uncertain time – he has not been chosen to influence policy.
his role in the inauguration is a gesture of inclusion to conservative christians who are fearful of being disrespected/disenfranchised by a more progressive administration.
does that sound familiar to of you?
you can’t fight hate with hate.
we need to show compassion and offer friendship to those who would vote against Our rights.
we need to be Big Girls and Boys about this shit.
we elected obama for his ability to bring these folks into the fold with Us.
don’t get it twisted.
obama is the president of conservative christians as well as muslims, african americans, mormons and lgbts.
please use some logic, consistency, honesty and finally, maybe an ounce of class!
you whingers are bad for the gays.
grow up, it’s not a good look!
Brian Miller
you kids are talking crazy.
obama represents the opposite of what you suggest, explicitly.
he stands for respecting and acknowledging differing ideas.
Prove it, then, Barack.
Invite David Duke and the Grand Wizard of the KKK to the invocation to discuss *their* “differing ideas” too.
his role in the inauguration is a gesture of inclusion to conservative christians who are fearful of being disrespected/disenfranchised
Conservative white power racists are also fearful of being disrespected and disenfranchised by a black president too.
Why isn’t Barack reaching out to them?
After all, if we are to honor bigotry, why not honor ALL bigotry — especially those who are MOST threatened by a black president, those who embrace the bigotry of racism?
Is some bigotry “better” than other bigotry?
If so, what does that say about both the motives of the Obama administration AND their perception of discrimination against gays?
jb
Gay people make me sick!
Keep your homosexuality to yourselves and stop trying to ram it down everyone’s throat or trying to get it into the school curriculum for kids aged 6 – 11.