OBVIOUSLY … We still don’t live in a world where HIV-positive folks can be open about their status without fear of stigmatization. [Guardian]
obviously
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ggreen
Ain’t it the truth! And those doing the most discriminating of course, would be those that either don’t know their status or are hiding the fact that they themselves are HIV positive (closet positives).
prissysissy
Gays who become HIV-positive today in the Western world happen to become so through their own choice, by not having unsafe sex. In 99% of the cases. Such people are either idiots or have little self-worth/self-respect – they are best shunned.
Frank Amsterdam
@prissysissy:
That is such utter BS (“It’s their own fault getting HIV”.) There are many infected in relationships where one trusts the other to be truthful about there hiv-negative-status and ‘outside’ escapades.
This is exactly the kind of stigma ‘we’ deal with. Although I, infected in the eighties, seem to be *not* at fault, people who got infected later, are. Well, get educated. Sex is not always rational, is it. This prissy – I Know It Better – attitude really pisses me off. (Fits your alias).
And even if low self esteem may play a part – which is questionable – then who contributed to that? Those same condemning people, who think you are worth shit being gay.
Please think again before you utter the loathsome shit you are uttering.
ben
@Frank Amsterdam: seconded
ggreen
@Frank Amsterdam: Prissy is like most morons and needs an other to blame to feel better about her own pitiful existence.
Dennis
@prissysissy:
You prove yourself to be as stupid as you are intolerant, ‘Stupidyfaggoty’.
I think you are probably best shunned as well, lest your assholeism ‘infects’ other intelligent, tolerant and compassionate people.
akn
@prissysissy: Your incredibly judgmental attitude is exactly why someone would be reluctant to disclose an HIV-positive status in a social context. Your comment itself smacks of the sentiment that gay men who contract HIV ‘deserve what they get,’ which is cruel and hypocritical. Your insistence on placing greater moral stigma on unprotected sex than on any other risk a gay man takes inflates it arbitrarily into something for which you can look down on someone – which is not surprising, given how much gay men love looking down on others.
Consider that sending a text or e-mail while you’re driving can in fact end your life (and others’ lives) far more quickly than having unprotected sex can. Consider the range of long-term damage that smoking cigarettes or drinking excessively can inflict on one’s body, versus the often excellent long-term health of medicated HIV+ men with an undetectable viral load. I don’t imagine you believe we should ‘shun’ every single person who engages in these far more common risky behaviors without a second thought.
Believe me, I totally agree that unprotected sex without discussing one’s status beforehand is reckless and irresponsible. But when you re-consider the risks of unprotected sex relative to other risks we take every day, it becomes a lot easier to view HIV+ people as more than just diseased outcasts.
MoHoTo
I’m not sure how you can come to the socially acceptable conclusion — oh, right, its the Guardian — when most people just don’t pepper their HIV status into social conversation. Anecdotally people usually don’t chat up their health issues in social settings anyway, except in Boca Raton where its all anyone talks about while they play shuffleboard & Bridge.
But it is interesting that my doctor is mostly in the specialty of treating hiv positive people (I’m negative), and when people ask me who my doctor is, those that know him do assume it means I’m positive, which doesn’t thrill me. I don’t think anyone likes others in social settings to know if they are battling disease. Its broader than just HIV.
Dennis
@Dennis:
Now that I’ve calmed down a bit from that ridiculous assertion by IdiotSissy or whatever, I do have a point to make…
It is precisely that kind of judgemental attitude that:
1. Keeps Hiv+ people ‘in the closet’ about their status, and makes them reluctant to honestly disclose, or discuss their status with sexual partners, or to have any kind of discussion about mutual Hiv status at all (serosorting, etc) for that matter.
2. Keeps those with an unknown status in denial, often not wanting to ‘know the truth’, and/or leading them to poor sexual decision making, or risky behaviors, or being in outright denial that they may be Hiv+.
3. Holding some value judgement that only ‘bad’ or ‘messed up’ people get Hiv, or that ‘it can’t happen to me’ (for whatever reason) can also lead to denial, and/or poor sexual decision making.
In short, judgement, secrecy, and denial only help to fuel Hiv transmition…by being less judgemental, more open and honest in our communications, by encouraging frequent testing for people (who beleive they are) Hiv-, and by doing what we can to remove the ‘stigma’ and/or shame of having Hiv, we can build healthier, more honest sexual relationships, and minimize Hiv transmition.
prissysissy
@Frank Amsterdam: I knew I would be flamed by some for my post. Note that I wrote, guys who get infected TODAY. I would sympathize with those who got infected in the 80’s or early 90’s, when many of us were not aware of the risks of unprotected sex. However, today there is no such excuse – any aware gay person would know the enormous risks of unsafe sex.
I also said 99%, not 100%. I do realize that for some of us HIV contraction can happen through cheating partners in supposedly monogamous safe relationships. However, I would bet the percentage of such contractions are significantly less compared to the percentage of gay men who get HIV because they simply don’t care of the aftermath.
As for comparing to other risky behavior like texting while driving, that is a false analogy. The discussion here is about social stigma, which reckless driving simply does not carry, however dangerous to self and others it might be. The closest analogy, though significantly weaker, could be to smoking. For that case, you can see how inexorably smokers are being excluded from social settings.
prissysissy
@Dennis: You won’t offend me by juvenile name calling. It simply shows that you don’t have points to counter my statement. The age-old tactic of yelling when reasoning leaves us .. based on current events, you sound like a “birther” or “deather”.
Andrew
People deserve respect and compassion regardless of how they got it. The only problem I have is that barebacking is so prevelant. That is what should be shunned. Too many people don’t or won’t remember the pandemic before the new meds. People still die of HIV related illnesses.
David
Prissy, you are wrong, which explains why you are also being so nasty.
“However, today there is no such excuse – any aware gay person would know the enormous risks of unsafe sex.”
Condoms fail sometimes, Prissy. The failure (breakage, holes) rate for different brands ranges from less than 2% to nearly 25%. One of the most popular, common brands has had a 20%+ breakage rate for decades.
People can use a condom every damn time they have sex, and still end up HIV+. You won’t ever learn that as long as you judge and condemn people with HIV – who’s gonna waste their breath talking to someone who, like any homophobe, “just knows” the facts of our lives out of thin air and malice?
Keep assuming, as homophobes do, that everyone who gets HIV/AIDS was careless, sloppy, barebacking, doing drugs, etc. and the resulting ignorance will make your posts a self-fulfilling prophecy about your own life.
Dennis
@prissysissy:
Post # 9 speaks to the realities of HIV prevention, and highlights your idiocy…’shun’ people all you want (and I’m sure it’s been mutual, with people shunning you for your judgemental attitude and useless contribution to the topic.)
Please, please avoid becomming a ‘safer sex educator’, as judging HIV+ people as idiots, or as self-hating, has not been shown to be an effective prevention strategy.
Tom
closet positives = “clositives”? Just wondering. Carry on.
Mike Barton
@Dennis: I have to take exception to argument #1, that judgmental attitude “keeps Hiv+ people ‘in the closet’ about their status, and makes them reluctant to honestly disclose, or discuss their status with sexual partners…” If you can’t be mature and responsible regarding disclosure prior to sexual contact with someone else and want to blame your immaturity and irresponsibility on someone else’s judgment of you then you have no business putting your dick in or near anyone.
Dennis
@Mike Barton:
Just to be clear, I am not advocating non-disclosure, nor giving ANYONE a pass to misrepresent their HIV status, or not disclose being HIV+ and then engage in risky behavior with a potentially HIV- partner.
However, in the real world, if you are an HIV- man and you desire to stay that way, the reality is that you must protect yourself, play safe, and assume that just about everyone you have casual sex with COULD be HIV+ and act accordingly, no matter waht they say, or whether HIV status’ are discussed.
The judgement that many HIV+ people face, again, in the real world, sometimes inhibits honest discussion, or disclosure, and/or fear of rejection takes over and the conversation doesn’t happen. This can increase poor sexual decision making for both partners.
It has been estimated that at least 25% of HIV+ gay men DO NOT KNOW they are positive. Your trick (or partner, for that matter) can say they are negative and really believe it, but beleiving doesn’t make it so. Yes, an HIV+ partner ‘should’ always disclose…and not disclosing, and then engaging in risky activity is reprehensible…but leaving your own HIV status in the hands of what someone else ‘should’ do is pretty foolish as well. Protect yourself.
EK
@David: That is how I became positive … condom breakage. I was completely safe, every time. And you know what? Something happened. I don’t know who or how because there was never a time I thought I was doing anything incorrectly. It sucks.
@prissysissy: So am I to be shunned for doing everything right?
srsamsa
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M Shane
For practical purposes, there is no more reason to tell social aquaintances that you have HIV than to Tell them you have ingrown toenails casually. People nowdays liveong and haopy lives with HIV. I sometimes witsh that people were a little more forthcoming if it was a matteer of concern for them.
I think that because of retarded folks (like the above) who are unkindly judgemental that people don;’t present that as an aspect of their lives.
While I was verty sexually active during the late 70’s and 80’s I never was infected, and their see to be so many suppport networks, that i don’t know how people live . I do know people who have been alive for many years with the infection andare healthy. I can’t see that there would be any occasion to talk about that;
Hiv negative
Another bad assholes messages.
Hiv negative
Why you say that HIV negative cannot be part in the HIV positive group?