Bradley Manning Named San Francisco Pride Grand Marshal, Group Protests

Bradley_Manning_US_ArmyIt’s unlikely you’ll see the grand marshal of this year’s San Francisco Pride on the parade route as he’s behind bars. In what’s obviously a show of solidarity for a U.S. Army hero/whistleblower, Bradley Manning has been named the 2013 grand marshal for San Francisco Pride.

The 25-year-old Manning has been accused of handing over 750,000 classified government documents to WikiLeaks as a protest against “don’t ask, don’t tell” and American foreign policy. Since he’s been in jail for the past three years awaiting trial, according to the Bradley Manning Support Network, “Pentagon Papers’ whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg will attend in his stead, and hundreds are expected to march in support of PFC Manning in the parade.”

At least one gay group is already outraged by the choice. The American Military Partner Association, which calls itself the nation’s premier resource and support network for LGBT military families, released a statement today, saying:

“Manning’s blatant disregard for the safety of our service members and the security of our nation should not be praised,” said Stephen Peters, president of AMPA. “The LGBT military community is outraged by this decision and we genuinely hope that San Francisco Pride will reconsider their appointment of Bradley Manning as a grand marshal for this year’s celebration. No community of such a strong and resilient people should be represented by the treacherous acts that define Bradley Manning.”

Do you think Manning is an appropriate choice?

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  • 2eo

    Bradley Manning, a genuine bona-fide American hero. A genuine example of class and conscience in an age where those things are vilified. ALL Americans should be proud you still produce people of his calibre.

    I doff my cap to your work Bradley, you’re a hero in the eyes of every rational thinking person on the planet.

    I salute you, and hope one day you’ll be recognised by the authorities as such. We’re still on your side.

  • Homophile

    A group in SF protesting something? Alert the media! Oh…someone has…

    SF resident here in support of the choice.

  • jeff4justice

    Yes and let’s not forget it’s Obama and the rest of the 2party system goons that keep him and other honorable people imprisoned while their crimes against humanity go unpunished.

    The American Military Partner Association can fuck themselves for their blind Patriotism, empire-ass-kissing bullshit.

  • erikwm

    Why is Manning a hero? What did he blow the whistle on? What did he expose? From my perspective, it seems like he exposed hundreds of thousands of classified documents just for the sake of exposing them.

    Am I unaware of some major scandal or wrongdoing that was exposed as a result of his actions? Why should he be celebrated?

    Persuade me.

  • oilburner

    He’s a very appropriate choice

  • yaoming

    3 years in jail with no trial? I guess the 6th Ammendment doesn’t apply to him. Poor guy.

  • Shadeaux

    HELL NO HE’S NOT A HERO, and if I had been serving the same time as he sold out, I would have fucked him up.

  • Merv

    Bradley Manning may or may not be a hero, but I still oppose the choice. Pride is about uniting the gay community, and about advancing gay rights. This selection does neither.

  • Polaro

    What a bad idea. A really, really bad idea.

  • hephaestion

    Bradley Manning will be in history textbooks as a hero one day. He is a hero, and I applaud San Francisco Pride for taking a stand for America’s true values. What Manning did was expose the world to crimes being committed by our military, and the American Military Partner Association should not be siding with military criminals whose misdeeds destroy our military’s and our nation’s reputation abroad by wantonly killing innocent people and covering it up.

  • fagburn

    A great choice in recognition of an truly heroic gay man.

    But I can’t see how a small group of gay men in the US military putting out a press release saying they’re obedient servants of power is that newsworthy, so why did Queerty put it in the headline?

  • mlbumiller

    This man should have already been shot as a traiter. He failed to follow the proper protocol in voicing his concerns. Releasing Classified documents, that swore to protect with his oath of enlistment and his signature of acknowlegement when given access to the documents.
    @Shadeaux: if he would have been in my unit, his a$$ would already be in a pine box in an unmarked grave.
    @yaoming: He is being held under military law, not civil law.

  • DarkZephyr

    Ok, I am not sure what it was exactly that he released. Protesting DADT is great, but what did he DO in protest? Sometimes the end does not justify the means. Can anyone tell me exactly what it was he exposed and why he would choose WikiLeaks as his method to do the exposing? Someone seemed to say that he exposed murder and injury to families. Can anyone elaborate? It seems to me from the article and the comments that LGBT military personnel are NOT on his side, and though I am not a military man myself I certainly come from a military family, so I lean towards trusting the opinions of enlisted men and women. They protect us with their lives. So any clarification here would be most welcome. Thanks.

  • jeff4justice

    @mlbumiller: So he needs to follow “protocol” huh? But you would have killed him so you’re above the law?

    If only all LGBT folks had followed “proper protocol” then we’d know our proper place as government bootlickers.

  • FStratford

    He will be recognized as a HERO, if not now, in the future.

    (1)The military can not go to Iraq and kill innocent civilians – as a standard operating procedure. That is bad military stragegy
    (2)and not feel like they are doing wrong by intentionally killing civilians – because the military does not punish such acts of barbarism unless its in the media spotlight.
    (3) do all these in the name of “protecting us” when in fact its endagering us by inspiring more to rise up against us
    (4) when they are really there to protect American Big Business interests, specifically oil.

    So there you have it. That is the reason why the Military is not seeking the death penalty because if it does, they will lose all their credibility world-wide.

  • DarkZephyr

    @FStratford: that is pretty much what the other guy said. I am still unclear on the specifics and why WikiLeaks was the way to go. From what military personnel have said, he endangered other military personnel. I remain undecided so far.

  • macmantoo

    @Merv: I agree 100%. There are many more deserving people than him. By picking him we have opened our fight to negativity we don’t need.

  • Allie

    Manning is the best possible choice. I know of no other soldier the LGBTQ community can be as proud of as her.

    I am disappointed to see her being misgendered in a queer publication though.

  • Allie

    @erikwm: Um, war crimes? *facepalm*

  • Allie

    @erikwm: Google “collateral murder”. The video footage is available to watch.

  • yaoming

    @mlbumiller: Too bad he was serving to protect a Constitution that doesn’t apply to him.

  • Allie

    @Merv: What other participant in the US war machine will have the support of the Native American, Black, Middle Eastern, Vietnamese, South American sections of the LGBTQ community? Also, her name is Breanna.

  • Allie

    @DarkZephyr: The end was exposing war crimes. The means was exposing war crimes.

  • twrightfield

    He will not be the Grand Marshall at San Francisco Pride.

  • Eric Auerbach

    Really? The SF Pride Grand Marshall is a traitor? Give me a fucking break.

  • Eric Auerbach

    @hephaestion: No he won’t. He’s a fucked up man who betrayed his country — and he’s a little bit of a moron to boot.

  • DPNA

    HOT OFF THE PRESSES. SF Pride admits error. Bradley Manning will NOT be Pride Grand Marshall. Below: Statement from SF Pride Board President.

    SF Pride Statement about Bradley Manning

    26 April 2013: Bradley Manning will not be a grand marshal in this year’s San Francisco Pride celebration. His nomination was a mistake and should never have been allowed to happen. A staff person at SF Pride, acting under his own initiative, prematurely contacted Bradley Manning based on internal conversations within the SF Pride organization. That was an error and that person has been disciplined. He does not now, nor did he at that time, speak for SF Pride.

    Bradley Manning is facing the military justice system of this country. We all await the decision of that system. However, until that time, even the hint of support for actions which placed in harms way the lives of our men and women in uniform — and countless others, military and civilian alike — will not be tolerated by the leadership of San Francisco Pride. It is, and would be, an insult to every one, gay and straight, who has ever served in the military of this country.

    There are many, gay and straight, military and non-military, who believe Bradley Manning to be innocent. There are many who feel differently. Under the US Constitution, they have a first amendment right to show up, participate and voice their opinions at Pride this year.

    Specifically, what these events have revealed is a system whereby a less-than-handful of people may decide who represents the LGBT community’s highest aspirations as grand marshals for SF Pride. This is a systemic failure that now has become apparent and will be rectified. In point of fact, less than 15 people actually cast votes for Bradley Manning. These 15 people are part of what is called the SF Pride Electoral College, comprised of former SF Pride Grand Marshals. However, as an organization with a responsibility to serve the broader community, SF Pride repudiates this vote. The Board of Directors for SF Pride never voted to support this nomination. Bradley Manning will have his day in court, but will not serve as an official participant in the SF Pride Parade.

    — Lisa L. Williams, SF Pride Board President

  • Vinaregglia

    If everybody thought they could substitute their judgement in the military, and void their pledge would create anarchy putting the lives of honorably serving members, their families, their communities & allied groups from other nations at risk.

    What precautions did he take to avoid that potential?  If his disclosure of material, info, intelligence, strategy, identification now or in the future?  Who has that info now?  The published leaks were censored somewhat by some media outlets.  Is the uncensored, unprotected data in the hands of any terrorist organization being used to plan a more effective future attack on the US?  There were 8 years between the 1st &2nd WTC bombings.

    What responsibility has he taken?  None to my knowledge.

    I think it is equally wrong for the Seal Team 6 member to publish a book with mission information.  By identifying himself he risks, by association, identifying the other Seal Team members, potentially targeting them & their families & their community to violent revenge killings.  He did not do this for a self-proclaimed ‘greater good’.  He did it for $.

    Scooter Libby leaked the identity of Valarie Plame, CIA.  Creating risk for many others for self-proclaimed political good.

    It’s wrong.  It’s treason!

    I don’t, in any way, excuse wrong actions by the US Govt or military.
    Even the Radical Revolutionary Weather Underground had the morals to not risk lives in their pursuit & of anti-Vietnam war!

    From Wiki:
    Greenwich Village townhouse explosion, March 1970
    Main article: Greenwich Village townhouse explosion

    Firemen contain the blaze from broken gas lines after the accidental explosion at 18 West 11th Street, March 6, 1970
    On March 6, 1970, during preparations for the bombing of a Non-Commissioned Officers’ (NCO) dance at the Fort Dix U.S. Army base and for Butler Library at Columbia University, there was an explosion in a Greenwich Village safe house when the nail bomb being constructed prematurely detonated for unknown reasons. WUO members Diana Oughton, Ted Gold, and Terry Robbins died in the explosion. Cathy Wilkerson and Kathy Boudin escaped unharmed. The site of the Village explosion was the former residence of Merrill Lynch brokerage firm co-founder Charles Merrill and the childhood home of his son, poet James Merrill; The younger Merrill subsequently memorialized the event in his poem “18 West 11th Street”, the title being the address of the house.  Another writer composed a widely reprinted poem “How Does It Feel To Be Inside An Explosion?” An FBI report later stated that the group had possessed enough explosive to “level … both sides of the street”. Dustin Hoffman was seen wandering the street afterwards; he lived in the townhouse next door.
    The bomb preparations have been pointed out by critics of the claim that the Weatherman group did not try to take lives with its bombings. Harvey Klehr, the Andrew W. Mellon professor of politics and history at Emory University in Atlanta, said in 2003, “The only reason they were not guilty of mass murder is mere incompetence. I don’t know what sort of defense that is.”
    [edit]Underground strategy change
    After the Greenwich Village incident, per the December 1969 “Flint War Council” decisions the group was now well underground, and began to refer to themselves as the Weather Underground Organization. At this juncture, WUO shrank considerably, becoming even fewer than they had been when first formed. The group was devastated by the loss of their friends, and in late April 1970, members of the Weathermen met in California to discuss what had happened in New York and the future of the organization. The group decided to reevaluate their strategy, particularly in regard to their initial belief in the acceptability of human casualties, rejecting such tactics as kidnapping and assassinations.  
    In 2003 interviews with Weather Underground members stated that they wanted to convince the American public that the United States was truly responsible for the calamity in Vietnam.  The group began striking at night, bombing empty offices, with warnings always issued in advance to ensure a safe evacuation. According to David Gilbert, who took part in the 1981 Brinks Robbery that killed three officers and was jailed for murder “[their] goal was to not hurt any people, and a lot of work went into that. But we wanted to pick targets that showed to the public who was responsible for what was really going on.” After the Greenwich Village explosion, in a review of the film The Weather Underground, a Guardian journalist restated that despite the obvious dangers of building and transporting huge shrapnel bombs, the film’s contention that no one was killed by WUO bombs.
    We were very careful from the moment of the townhouse on to be sure we weren’t going to hurt anybody, and we never did hurt anybody. Whenever we put a bomb in a public space, we had figured out all kinds of ways to put checks and balances on the thing and also to get people away from it, and we were remarkably successful.
    —Bill Ayers, 2003

    I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

  • Will L

    I’m relieved that SF Price admit it was an error. A huge error, in my book. He should never see the light of day again.

  • The surreal McCoy

    Well, it not understandable that those who are affiliated with the army are angry at this decision? Bradley Manning exposed not only ‘the government’ or ‘the military’ as abstract entities, but also those acting on their behalf, namely each individual soldier, and to a certain extend all those who are pro-war.

    Put yourself in the shoes of someone returning home knowing that everybody has seen on TV what truly happens when US soldiers are deployed in faraway countries; the feeling of shame that this must bring about is quite unimaginable. It is only human to try to justify or hide whatever happened overseas; and fight its exposure to the fiercest extend – regardless of Geneva conventions, reason, moral codes, or oaths.

    In the end, one thing speaks louder than all the comments here: the suicide rate of veterans, and the often diagnosed PTSD that comes from having acted against one’s deepest values.

    Seen in this context, and given the challenges the gay community still faces to this day a grand marshal that unifies rather than divides the community might have indeed been a wiser choice.

  • Shadeaux

    @jeff4justice: I’ll bet you’re overweight, short, funky, ugly as hell, and have a small dick..,big guy.

  • Dakotahgeo

    Thanks to the USA Military, US Government, and assorted homophobes, we find ourselves with a rather new hero! Bradley Manning took the only reasonable way towards exposing the sad truths about our military actions, where so many innocent people and children have died. Others may disagree, but I hope to see a big photo of Mr. Manning sitting proudly in the back seat of a classy convertible! If he is there in person, protect him, and so much the better!

  • erikwm

    @Allie: Can you be a little more specific? I don’t want to have to dig through a bunch of blogs myself.


    WTF! No way, or as I say “IDIOT” if he have done that in my old country South Africa, he would have been drown in a tea spoon. AdamHomo

  • qeerily

    There seems to be some misunderstanding here by a lot of people about Manning’s culpability in “putting people in harm’s way.” Manning gave classified material to Wikileaks, and Wikileaks made the trove available over secure servers to newspapers around the world. The newspapers began publishing the cables, redacting personal names where appropriate. This is how journalism works; this is how whistleblowing works. In a healthy society, this should happen more often. At some point, a journalist at the Guardian made public his password for accessing the cables, and immediately the unredacted versions became available. But this happened a LONG time into the affair, after it had been digested by the State Dept and whatever adjustments made had been made. Not a single hair on anyone’s precious little head was ever hurt, and Manning is hardly responsible for the release of the unredacted cables.

  • Shadeaux

    @jeff4justice: No.., because only a loser would say something as stupid as what you said. You didn’t disagree with me, you made a dumbass statement. Not only was it a dumbass statement, you’ve never been in the military. I served in the Gulf War with 1st 101st and have the DD214 to prove it. So being fat has nothing to do with it. It’s about making comments on things you know something about, and when you don’t, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

  • jeff4justice

    @Shadeaux: Aw, sticks and stones big guy.

    Sorry you chose to be a moron who enlisted to fight the 2-party system’s lie-based wars. Hate to break the news to you, but just because you served in the military does not mean you’re automatically some awesome person.

    Your character in this thread shows your piss poor ethics. Manning appeasers to have more charterer than you could ever imagine having. Good luck to you.

  • FStratford


    South Africa? Where only recently only people who have light skin color have rights? That South Africa? Psh.

    The South Africa that was once part of the fabled BRICS, but soon was dropped?

  • Dakotahgeo

    @Shadeaux: Outside of being one of millions who have served in the military… what is your point?? My only uncle served and died in WWII. Thanks for your pukeish service but I am ashamed that you made it back. Give thanks!!!

  • Dakotahgeo

    @jeff4justice: Shadeaux??? Where the hell did you serve? The French Red Light District?? Don’t bother answering… you’re disgusting!!!

  • Dakotahgeo

    @Shadeaux: Shadeaux??? Where the hell did you serve? The French Red Light District?? Don’t bother answering… you’re disgusting!!!

  • greyhound1954

    I’m gay and I’m a Vietnam Era vet, although I served my time in Germany. I fully support the choice of Bradley Manning as grand marshal. Manning is a flawed individual, no doubt. At the time he was persuaded to provide classified documents to Wikileaks, he was under extreme emotion stress. Documents and videos he provided to Wikileaks revealed a covered-up attack on journalists by American aircraftl other documents have revealed the hypocrisy of our government and our military. Manning has already been mentally abused in prison; what I would like to see happen is that he have a trial right now, be found quilty and then pardoned by Obama. We have a former president who is an out-and-out war criminal. If Bush had been the leader of any other country, he would now be on trial in The Hague for war crimes. While Bush is opening his library, receiving his presidential pension, and doing nothing in the nature of public service, Manning languishes in jail. People always jabber on about how they support the troops. Well, if you really truly supported the troops, you’d raise holy hell to keep the troops from being sent somewhere they didn’t need to be; some of us did protest before the Iraq invasion, to no avail, of course. To those LGBT troops and their families who are outraged by Manning, I say your anger is misplaced: There’s a gentleman in Dallas with plenty of American blood on his hands.

  • greyhound1954

    @mlbumiller: George W. Bush put our troops in harm’s way for no good reason. If you are angry with Manning, you ought to be furious with Bush, a man who is living the high life and gets off scot free despite being a war criminal. The blood of thousands of American military men and women is on his hands.

  • Geoff B

    Sorry, he’s no hero. He’s a useful idiot. He wasn’t forced to serve, Granted, he probably didn’t put anyone in harm’s way by what he leaked, but the fact remains he could have. Soldiers need to be able to trust the guy next to them. Manning is an epic fail. He sold out his side without any regard for the saftey of his fellow soldiers to be a cause celebe. No matter what you think about whoever happens to be Commander in Cheif at the time, that is unforgivable.
    Having said that, he deserves his day in court. 3 years is too long and a violation of due process. We either need to shit of get off the pot and quit pretending the Bill of Rights is all that flexible. Try him on the evidence (should be a slam dunk) or let him go, but the Constitution exists for a reason.

  • Lefty

    It looks like SFPride caved in and have changed their mind.
    Pride is supposed to be about sticking two fingers up to oppression, not getting on your hands and knees and licking its boots.
    Shame on them.

  • Humanedge

    @Vinaregglia: Bradley Manning got himself imprisoned and tortured in Solitary for months for money? Ignoring how little sense that makes given the circumstances,its been 3 years since he’s been locked up and no one has shown that any attack on the U.S or any real danger at all has been presented by Bradley’s actions.

    Even if you doubt his motives, the fact remains no one has been harmed by his actions. Secrecy is far more dangerous than transparency, ESPECIALLY when it comes to governments.

  • Stevenw

    I can’t find a single verifiable case where Manning’s leaks caused the loss of an American Soldier’s life. It’s a smokescreen. The only real harm to America was to it’s pride – something it seems some parts of America cannot take.

    Taking the long view, its hard not to admire the skill of redirection displayed by those in power – plenty of people calling for the head of Manning everywhere, but where are the calls for the heads of those who allowed and *promoted* the army culture that led to these abuses?

    They walk around free, and pretty damned wealthy – yet no-one from the military or government has been able to deny any of the abuses highlighted in the leaks, have they? So why are they free, while Manning is scapegoated and imprisoned?

    I suggest that some of those calling Manning a traitor ought to refocus their outrage and look higher up the ranks, no? They were the ones who dragged America’s military honour through the mud, and they are laughing at you.

  • 2eo

    @Lefty: Indeed, how sad, although with the US military and their extended powers to incarcerate civilians indefinitely with no charge I don’t blame them.

    I expect they were leant on VERY heavily by the military machine. Sadly their threats are very real and they’ve shown time and time again they’ll just outright murder civilians to get their way.

  • bledoutcolor

    I personally think he is a hero because of the integrity he showed and the courage it took to stand up aggainst and expose military corruption like he did. Three years in jail without trial is clearly unconstitutional and the case should be dropped on those merits alone.

    That said I do feel that this selection will probably distract from the actual meaning of pride, which is to advance the gay community’s standing in society. And I’m worried that violence may break out if the protests go wrong since some see him as a traitor for some ungodly reason.

    Overall though I think AMPA is just manufacturing outrage and need to STFU. Its not their decision, and it doesn’t directly affect them in any way unless they choose to attend pride and even if they do he wont even be there. Haters gonna hate, but I still wish they would stop being such whiney bitches.

  • Allie

    @erikwm: Google “collateral murder”, that’s the best known one. You can watch it yourself.

  • Shadeaux

    @jeff4justice: Morons like me served so idiots like you can comment on shit you have no clue, insult the same country’s laws that give you the freedom to make these comments; and BTW, you threw an underhand insult at me who never knew you existed, but something wrong with my character. You’re a lonely vile disgusting asshole, lower than ant shit, who needs to get some business so you can stay the out of other people’s business.

    @Dakotahgeo: Poor thing.

  • BJ McFrisky

    Jesus H, are people so socially misdirected that they worship criminals?
    Keep this in mind: The people attending this year’s SF pride parade will be no more immune to attack than were the good people attending the Boston marathon.
    May young Bradley suffer the worst of physical and emotional tortures while behind bars, and once he has succumbed to his torments, may he then rest in piss for eternity.
    I’ve said m’ piece.

  • 2eo

    @Shadeaux: You profess to stand up for your country yet do the dirty work of the black hats. People like you are what is wrong with our military machine, people like you are why good soldiers are left to die while you worm your way back on the backs of their corpses.

    You don’t have the intelligence or bottle to be respected. Good soldiers have a conscience, heart and integrity, and fortunately they still outnumber people like you [just], you have nothing, just a brainless grunt and nothing more.

  • Lefty

    @BJ McFrisky: He hasn’t even had a trial, yet. The people who condemn someone who’s never been tried and has been imprisoned for so long without trial on the grounds that they are speaking for democracy and “freedom” would be funny, if it weren’t so obviously contradictory; and startlingly so.
    Yet you wish pain and torture on such a person at the same time as trying to use a completely unrelated and tragic incident to bolster your case for this free society you seem to feel you’re championing.
    You don’t even attempt to conceal your violent fantasies against Bradley Manning. Something I’ve noticed appears in quite a lot of the posts that seek to condemn an as-yet untried person.

  • BJ McFrisky

    @Lefty: A) He’s being held by the military, not by civilian court, so circumstances will be varying. Do I think they should try him now rather than later? Absolutely.
    B) I fully admit I believe in his guilt prior to a trial, the same way I believe Casey Anthony killed her kid, regardless of what a jury said. I retain that right. It’s called the First Amendment.
    C) I never fantasized of violence against him, just wished him abundant pain and discomfort. I’ll go out on a limb and say the same about young Mr. Tsarnaev, Nidal Hasan, and old Charlie Manson.
    @2eo: When you say “our military,” you’re referring to . . . ? You’re not American, so you have no position to make a statement about OUR military. Stick with queens and crumpets—more your style.

  • Dakotahgeo

    @BJ McFrisky: You’ve just proved that Brad Manning is ten times the person you’ll ever hope to be. I thank you!

  • Dakotahgeo

    @Dakotahgeo: Oops, wrong comment. Sorry, jeff4justice. BTW, your comments are spot on the mark. Shaddow is a real piece of work!

  • Lefty

    @BJ McFrisky: It’s nice you’re conscious of your own rights and value them, but a shame you disregard the rights of others; ie. the right to due process, to a fair trial, the notion of “innocent until proven guilty”, the imprisonment without trial for almost three years to the day – and the conditions of that imprisonment, which the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture (who himself was denied an unmonitored meeting with Manning to investigate his well-being) reported “constitutes at a minimum cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment in violation of article 16 of the convention against torture”.

    @BJ McFrisky: “C) I never fantasized of violence against him, just wished him abundant pain and discomfort. I’ll go out on a limb and say the same about young Mr. Tsarnaev, Nidal Hasan, and old Charlie Manson.”

    Again, your cognitive dissonance here is quite startling. Manning has never killed a single person and, despite many trying to claim otherwise, it’s never been shown that anything he did resulted in a single death. What he did do was uncover gross abuses of power and clear evidence of the murders of innocent people.
    Yet, it’s Manning that you try to equate with murderers and then go on to use that false equivalence to justify your violent fantasies against him.
    Your position brings up some very worrying contradictions, but your motivation for that position remains unclear precisely because these contradictory points in the end cancel each other out. Or they would do, if you thought it through a little more…

  • Dakotahgeo

    @Shadeaux: You’ve probably spent more time on KP than actual battle. Did you ever take typing, or did the letters screw with your little mind?

  • Dakotahgeo

    @2eo: Thank you, 2eo. You’re much too generous to Shaddope!

  • viveutvivas

    Who is the president of SF Pride, Lisa L Williams, to “discipline” somebody? Jesus Christ, are they now waterboarding their volunteers?

    From the article: “Williams decreed to all organization members that “even the hint of support” for Manning’s action – even the hint – “will not be tolerated by the leadership of San Francisco Pride”. Will not be tolerated.”

    Jeezus F*cking Christ! I hope this pride becomes a freaking riot.

  • Polaro

    Bradley Manning is a terrible choice. For those of you who cannot see this I am amazed at your reasoning. A gay man divulging US secrets he was entrusted with goes back to all the reasons they once used for refusing gay people security clearances. Many more people see him as a traitor to the US and they have good cause to see him so. While I am somewhat sympathetic to the poor lad, I do not condone what he did, and still do not understand why he did it. It was neither strategic or effective. Why the hell anyone would pick such a polarizing person for a parade grand marshal is stunning. His selection is a moronic, insensitive, unnecessary act of belligerence. I’m stunned at the support of this action for the only reason that he is gay.

  • viveutvivas

    Form the artciel: “Even at the San Francisco Gay Pride Parade, once an iconic symbol of cultural dissent and disregard for stifling peities, nothing can happen that might offend AT&T and the Bank of America. The minute something even a bit deviant takes place (as defined by standards imposed by America’s political and corporate class), even the SF Gay Pride Parade must scamper, capitulate, apologize, and take an oath of fealty to their orthodoxies (we adore the military, the state, and your laws).”

  • viveutvivas


  • Allie

    @Polaro: What, that the oppressed can’t be trusted to act in the best interests of the oppressor? Actually, I wish more queer people would live up to that suspicion. I don’t support Ms Manning’s actions because [she] is [trans*], I support her actions because because her actions were right.

    *to my knowledge there’s no up to date record of her sexuality – maybe she’s also gay, some trans people’s stated preferences do change during transition, but most don’t so the fact that she seems to have exclusively been interested in men before means she probably still is, which would make her straight. The only definate claim the LGBTQ community has to her as one of our own is that she’s trans.

  • Jim Hlavac

    1) he’s not going to be the grand marshall — SF pride already issued a comment that it’s a false rumor. see ontop magazine and elsewhere today.

    2) the comments here show that there is no “homosexual” opinion on Manning, or apparently anything else either. In fact, there seems not to be a “LGBT community” position on anything under the sun

    — so, why do A) all heteros think we think alike, and B) why do all gay folks get all in a tizzy when it’s discovered that we don’t all think alike?

    it’s a conundrum, for sure. Maybe we should reexamine who speaks for us and about what.

  • jsancheznv

    I take no position with regard to the allegations against Manning–the case is still pending. What I will say is that all the elite gay rights groups have abandoned him because of their loyalty to Obama. Therefore, I am glad for Manning that he has has the support of the lefty gay community in San Francisco.

  • erikwm

    @Allie: I didn’t support the Iraq War, but having watched that video, it seemed like the soldiers truly believed they were engaging armed insurgents. It did appear some of the men had weapons.

    Thanks for the reply, but that video hasn’t changed my perspective. It doesn’t seem like Manning sought to expose any one egregious act, but instead just randomly exposed hundreds of thousands of classified documents to protest the war. While I am sympathetic to the cause, I can’t support his actions. I don’t think he should be grand marshal and the committee made the right decision to overrule his selection.

  • Allie

    @erikwm: “It doesn’t seem like Manning sought to expose any one egregious act” – indeed. Like I said, that’s the best known one.

    I’m kinda horrified by the way about how you and every other commenter apart from myself has insisted on consistently misgendering her.

  • Lefty

    @Allie: Has Bradley made a definitive statement on how s/he self-identifies?
    Scott Long made the point in the piece I linked upthread that it isn’t known and, at the very least, that uncertainty should be expressed?

  • Polaro

    @Allie so which person that he got killed do you support? You are seriously misguided and I am done with this silly discussion over a really stupid idea.

  • Lefty

    @Polaro: He hasn’t got anybody killed. He did expose the murder of innocent people, though.
    Seems some people are confusing the two.

  • erikwm

    @Allie: Is Bradley Manning transgender? Because I had not heard that. I just thought Manning was gay.

    Ironically, this sort of misunderstanding is instructive to the “collateral murder” video. Here you are accusing myself and others of malicious intent, when in fact, I was simply acting out of good faith. I would not purposefully misgender anyone who is trans. I simply did not know.

  • JonnyOzark

    Bradley Manning has NOT been named SF Pride Grand Marshall!!

    From the San Francisco Chronicle 4/27/13, “San Francisco Pride Board President Lisa Williams said in a statement Friday (Manning as Grand Marshall)…was a “mistake and never should have happened.”

    ” … Even the hint of support for actions which placed in harm’s way the lives of our men and women in uniform – and countless others, military and civilian alike – will not be tolerated by the leadership of San Francisco Pride,” Williams said. “It is, and would be, an insult to every one, gay and straight, who has ever served in the military of this country.”

    Williams said a rogue SF Pride staff member contacted Manning based on conversations within the organization. She said that person has since been disciplined.”

  • Allie

    @Lefty: It seems like her defence team think it might prejudice the proceedings against her , which isn’t necessarily a bad point, but the leaked chatlogs make it pretty clear that the *worst* thing about this experience for her – worse than the possibility of being executed – is being a household name as “male”. Even if there *is* doubt, that’s not a reason to use male pronouns or her birth name, it’s a reason to use neutral pronouns (they/their/etc) and avoid first names.

    @Polaro: Who are you saying [she] got killed? Specifics please.

    @erikwm: “Malicious intent” is too strong a word, for a start it implies *active* ill will rather than just neglect, but I’ve gendered her female throughout the entire thread and nobody has taken notice. I even corrected Polaro directly and they ignored that and continued to use male pronouns in their response.

  • Dakotahgeo

    @jsancheznv: I would venture to believe that there a great number of people who support BOTH Brad Manning and President Obama. Both of them did, and are doing, what is expected of them.

  • viveutvivas

    @dacotahgeo, I am not sure what you are getting at with that comment.

  • erikwm

    @Allie: For the most part, I only read the comments that were in direct response to my original question and thought any use of the female pronoun was merely the common practice among some gay men to use female pronouns when speaking of other gay men. I’ve known plenty of gay men who use “girl” and “she” when speaking of other gay men. I thought it was in that vein.

    There also seems to be some dispute regarding the characterization of Manning’s gender identity. Wikipedia, for instance, does not characterize Manning as transgender.

    For that reason, I’ll simply refrain from using any pronoun and use “Manning” instead.

  • Allie

    @erikwm: That’s acceptable :) Never heard that about gay men gendering each other female before lol. I think Wikipedia has held off from changing it’s records because there’s been no official statement from her defence team, the same reason it still calls Lana Wachowski “Larry”; the defence team in turn seems to be worried about bigotry from the court and/or more fickle individuals among her “supporters”.

  • Lefty

    @Allie: I’ve been more mindful of the pronouns I’m using with regard to Manning. The chat logs you cite seem conclusive about her wishes in this regard.
    The problem is, as you say, the defense team’s probable reason for not being open about this; the bigotry and confusion it could add to the debate, for some.
    I don’t have any reason to misgender her or misrepresent her against her wishes, but if the defense team are doing so, we have to at least assume that – for now – it’s with Manning’s consent.
    A couple of times I’ve still used – what I now assume to be – an inappropriate pronoun, with the above in mind – but mostly, like Erik, just use her surname.
    My only slight anxiety with using surnames is that it can sometimes seem impersonal, but if someone is genuinely being misgendered against their express wishes then that’s undoubtedly even more impersonal and disrespectful.

  • Allie

    @Lefty: Well, people in privileged positions can often pressure people in more precarious positions into doing things they don’t want to do, even with the best of intentions, and I’d kinda taken for granted that that was what was going on here. But mebby you’ve got a point.

  • CayRivs

    The folks of The American Military Partner Association are very loyal to the US government and its fine military. So loyal that they will unconditionally defend it, even when someone like Manning comes along and exposes the horrible acts the government has done. I understand their disgust with Manning, but I do not support their stance on this issue. I support Manning and anyone else brave enough to pay attention to “that man behind the curtain.” I am a proud American and I do not appreciate my government doing such horrible things and keeping it from citizens. Thank you, Bradley. You’re an American hero in my eyes, and it’s obvious you love your country and its people. We need to stop letting the government destroy our beautiful nation, as well as other nations, for its own selfish gain.

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