It’s a sad day in North Carolina. Actually make that in the entire U.S.: Amendment One—which defines marriage between one man and one woman as the only union the state will recognize—has passed.
With 35% of precincts reporting, the unofficial results show North Carolinians voting in favor of the measure 58% to 42%. Opponents concede at this point there’s no way they can make up the difference.
Supporters of the amendment were in the majority from the start, but saw their lead waver as marriage-equality activists got the word out. Though it’s hardly the first gay-marriage ban in the nation (it’s not even the first in North Carolina) we can’t remember such a passionate fight in a long time.
Even pro wrestler CM Punk got worked up enough to tell an Amendment One supporter to kill himself. (He later apologized.)
Ignorance played a factor in the final tally: 53% of those asked by Public Policy Polling said they supported gay marriage or civil unions, but less than half understood Amendment One would outlaw both.
The concern now is how the ban will affect spousal and family benefits for unmarried couples of all orientations, as well as protections for domestic-violence victims.
Sure, it’s easy to be disheartened—but let’s remember that the trend has always been toward equality. Young people in North Carolina voted overwhelmingly against Amendment One. We’ll leave you with a particularly touching comment posted today on the Vote No on Amendment One Facebook page:
I’m KEEPING my Vote Against One yard sign. And when I’m 80 (now 32), I will be proud to show MY grandkids what I fought for! They will likely laugh and say, “Grandma, people were against gays and equality back in your day?”
Photo: Elena Wofford
Are the Democrats going to withdraw the Convention from the state?
At the current time (about 40 percent counted), in the Democrat Primary for President, in North Carolina President Obama has like 66 percent and the equivalent of “None of the Above” has close to 200,000 votes, at 34 percent. Now Obama’s margin of victory in 2008 was 14,000 votes.
So holding the convention in North Carolina carries the state for him in 2012? I think North Carolina is lost. You’d have to be insane thinking it’s a swing state anymore.
My parents and I voted against today. 🙁
North Carolina is th birthplace of the so-called “Christian Coalition.” On issues like this, they get their fundie-bots MOBILIZED to vote en masse. There was never a chance this wouldn’t pass… The ignorance, stubbornness, and hatred that fuels them make them unstoppable, at least in their own back yard. So glad I got the hell out of there!
If it helps any (it doesn’t) the amendment appears to be losing in Mecklenburg County, home of Charlotte.
I’m never surprised by ignorant people coming out in droves to support ignorance—trash will be trash. It’s still disappointing to watch equality lose another battle, though.
The lady’s comment at the end says all the right things, and like her I want my country and government to step up to the fucking plate and—for once!—do right by Americans who are being wronged, without prompting, or hustling for votes. Come on!
Come to the beautiful state of New York, my fellow LGBT North Carolinians. Your people have spoken and they say that you’re a human subspecies. You are not welcome there. Come join us where you can marry and live happily as you please without the fist of the Christian right wrapped snugly around your throats. It may be more expensive but nobody said freedom was free.
Well, it’s nice people were able to vote I suppose, it’s a little step up from the Nazi Germany days.
In a few years it will be overruled anyway.
http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/NC/36596/80602/en/md.html?cid=425000010 shows the results with a map indicating which counties voted for or against Amendment One.
Buncombe, Durham, Chatham, Guilford, Mecklenburg, New Hanover, Orange and Wake counties voted against it (as of the time of this post – all the results are not in). Orange County voted against Amendment One by over a 3 to 1 margin. Durham County voted against it by over a 2 to 1 margin. Of course, other counties had similarly high margins in the other direction, overwhelming the small, relatively liberal areas.
These numbers are well beyond what one would expect from statistical fluctuations. It indicates that there is a wide difference in attitude in North Carolina depending on where in the state someone is in. Interestingly, the area near Orange and Durham Counties include the cities Chapel Hill, Durham, and Raleigh, which makes up the corners of the “Research Triangle”, the high-tech part of the state. Chapel Hill and nearby areas are fairly liberal, and thus out of step with other parts of the state. Interestingly, Chapel Hill has an openly gay mayor, who has made public statements opposing Amendment One.
It raises some interesting questions. For example, In No. 1, Mark asked if the Democratic Party would respond by moving its convention out of North Carolina as currently planned (they probably can’t – it takes a lot of lead time for something that large, if only to get hotel space). The problem with Mark’s question is that the convention is supposed to be held in Charlotte, North Carolina, which is in Mecklenburg County, which (based on the results so far) seems to have voted against Amendment One. To the extent that the money spent gets fed into local businesses, moving the convention out would punish an area of North Carolina that voted in our favor with very little adverse impact on the people who voted against us – if they benefit at all, it would be from state-wide taxes.
Sorry to the rest of the nation. A lot of us here on the ground here in NC tried hard for a miracle. I keep in mind that even though NC gave us Amendment 1, it also gave us the sit-in at Woolworths. 60% of the state may be ignorant or dangerous fools, but 40% of us are fighting hard, and while their numbers are fading, ours are increasing.
Go out there North Carolina and win one for the Goober.
@Mark: I believe the passing of this law will make North Carolina a blue state this election.
Even in liberal Washington State I wonder how far equality has progressed. We’ll see in the coming months. This ongoing discrimination across the country is so very unconstitutional and discriminatory.
I’m sorry to hear that Amendment One passed today! I’m from Texas and I can relate to the devastating feeling…that all of the people and supporters who voted against Amendment One…must feeling right now! Our state also had passed Prop 12, which was similar to Amendment One, back in 2004! It was a painful and bitter defeat for us here…as it must be for all of you in North Carolina right now! Little did the Amendment One supporters knew after they voted…that it was most of their own family member’s lives, such as the LGBT community, domestic partners, and straight unmarried couples with families themselves… they had destroyed tonight! But, we in LBGT community cannot give up hope though…like Prop 8…this too will be overturned!!! Don’t give up hope yet! Keep fighting! The War Isn’t Over Yet!!!
Many Republican candidates signed NOM’s pledge. Never forget how they signed NOM’s silly pledge. Red Meat, I do hope North Carolina becomes a Blue State after going through this ordeal.
“I’m from Texas and I can relate to the devastating feeling…that all of the people and supporters who voted against Amendment One…must feeling right now! Our state also had passed Prop 12, which was similar to Amendment One, back in 2004! ….”
Proposition 12 limited lawsuit damages in medical malpractice cases. I too live in Texas and you couldn’t blast me out of here with dynamite thanks to Proposition 12. It lowered doctor’s malpractice rates by thousands. California has the exact same amendment on their books, BTW, long before Texas.
My advice is : BOYCOTT NORTH CAROLINA ASAP
So you only have to outnumber people to violate their human rights – that’s the creepy message that was sent. No wonder the rule of law ends in so much of the world – no sane person pledges allegiance to uphold such a government. They want to violate the human rights of hundreds of millions of people AND they want you to maintain the rule of law. Talk about insane expectations they cannot enforce at all. It’s like asking “hey, we just wrote your human rights out of our state “justice” system’s main document, would you mind not littering the place into a garbage heap?” The Founders said the country would crash this way by people enfeebling constitutions with discrimination. They created a constitutional republic to try to slow down its ending, but they admitted it would end come what may because human nature leads human beings to hate other people simply for being different. Liberty and Justice for All can now be a joke phrase in North Carolina, just like it is in much of the USA.
super embarrassed for north carolina, but more embarrassed for the whole country to see that NC’s ban makes it the 29TH state with a voter-approved constitutional ban on gay marraige. wow.
Well…. looking at the bright side. We only have to make up for 10% and we’re on even keel.
This was highly publicized in North Carolina and I suspect that an analysis of the voting patterns will show us how to get to where we want to be.
Doing the math, birth rate is 14% mortality rate is 8% – so we will get there without doing anything in 20 years.
Based on how the whole country is trending though, conversion rate is about 7% – so that cuts the wait time to 8 years by just relying on average social interactions.
If however if we put some effort into it and donate to/help promote a strategic grass roots campaign, say NC folks can do it town by town… city by city… by putting up mini-laws for domestic partnership locally. Publicizing gay parades and having local spokesmen like the Raleigh mayor, Clay Aiken etc.
In 3 years, I predict a sea change in NC.
On another note, if Obama wants an easy win for a second term, he’d better only come out for Gay Marriage AFTER the election. Even semi-blue swing states like North Carolina are majority anti-gay… and he must win if we want gay marriage to move forward.
The majority vote does not count as due process of law.
If religion should be the standard to which every American is subject, then which religion? Will this religion change, given time?
In the future, if the world’s second largest religion, the Islamic religion, is favored and the population grows substantially higher, should Americans, then, be subject to the concepts and laws of Islam? If religion comes down to a vote, to which religion should the laws of the land ascribe? If a sudden population explosion takes place in people who believe in Buddhism, should the laws of the land bend to their beliefs? When does it stop? Would people of different religions turn and fight one another? What precedence are we setting for the future?
Dr Martin Luther King:
“We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was ‘well timed’ in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word ‘Wait!’ It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This ‘Wait’ has almost always meant ‘Never.’ We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that ‘justice too long delayed is justice denied.’”
This should never be voted upon. It is wrong on premise. I felt awful all day, talking to many people (customer service job), around co-workers, and at the store. I felt awful because the people around me have no right to vote on my rights as a human being, no right to pass judgment on my worth or place in the world. This whole thing sucks, it sucks because its not just banning gay marriage, its a re-commitment to ban all relationships that are not heterosexual marriages. But people here fought hard. We gave it all we had. And I won’t apologize that we couldn’t win. Go back a generation and people couldn’t have imagined a battle like this being fought. And its okay to be disheartened and just pissed off for a while. But we just need to get back up and keep going, because we are further along the road than ever before. It keeps feeling like its around the corner, like its the last lap, like we should be there already, but that’s a runners wall and the only way to get past it is to keep running. I spent this morning sad and weepy, this afternoon pissed off and bitter, this evening detached and disheartened- but tonight, tonight I rest up, because tomorrow is another day and a new battle to fight. Its a long campaign but we are righteous and fierce, glorious and true, and we will win this war.
Really there is no surprise here, it’s the south. And I’m tired of hearing the politically naive amongst us calling for the president to come out in support for same-sex marriage before the elections. It achieves nothing but only giving the religious right a rallying point for November.
the religious right feeds off of hate and fear. and because people in this country are so weak minded, the right finds them easy to manipulate
While I didn’t think that North Carolina was going to be able to avoid an anti-same sex marriage amendment, I had really hoped that they would be able to replicate what Arizona did: Defeat the amendment that also included a ban on domestic partnerships and civil unions, forcing the wingers to come back with an amendment the next time that ONLY banned marriage.
I guess the difference in North Carolina is that it doesn’t have the libertarian types that Arizona has or the old, straight retired widowed couples, who can’t get married again because it would fuck up their pensions or Social Security survivor benefits, but who benefit from domestic partner laws.
@Sam: Nark how does this amendment passing make NC a blue state? If the people backing this issue and those against it turned out today how does this make this a blue state. Could it be your color blind? A few weeks ago I would have called it a swing state. After the big O said he was disappointed in the voters here color it red. People here are actually pretty nice or at least to me they seem like it I don’t see hate here near as much as the 45 years I spent in NJ. The only thing I do see and their is nothing wrong with it is they will belive the Church regardless of what type and the Avangislist long before they will belive Mr Omaba
I have never seen a thread at this site with such a preponderance of excellent posts. For once I feel like the posters are truly people I identify with beyond sharing the simple fact of the gender of who I’m inclined to fall in love with.
It is the understanding of a vast number of religious people in this country that it is God’s will that two people who truly love each other should have the same opportunities to share their lives whether they are of the opposite sex or of the same sex. And this is also the understanding of nearly 40% of voters in North Carolina and many other so-called “Red States”.
Don’t be discouraged, and don’t fall into their habit of painting everybody in a particular group with the same broad brush.
Unless that group is Republicans! Sadly, every reasonable Republican seems to be falling away in the wake of George W. Bush, from Chuck Hagel to today’s news about Dick Lugar. If there’s anything one takes away from this it’s that we need to have progressive Democrats not only in the White House but in the Senate and House of Representatives, and in state houses and governorships. There was a time when the argument was that good people coming from markedly different points of view could come together and fashion a more balanced and responsible and enduring legislation for the good of the citizens they represented and for the good of the country and Constitution they swore allegiance to. All the good and reasonable people in the Republican party have been primaried out of the races. The Republicans in office increasingly want not only to edge us out of the American citizenry, they want to edge moderate Republicans out.
A majority of Catholics agree with Joe Biden on gay marriage. Protestants as well—Presbyterians, Episcopalians and Quakers not only embrace gay congregants and perform gay marriages where it is legal, but they also ordain gay clergy in active committed sexual relationships. And last night on TV I saw a black Baptist preacher—in North Carolina—giving one of the most impassioned, articulate, moving comments on this issue that I’ve seen.
Where some make the mistake is by believing that a president could wave a magic wand or sign a self-penned writ and the law and society will suddenly be as we wish it in all our 50 states. The flip-side of that mistake is what makes the difference. Because those same people will take it for granted that religion is some monolithic inevitability, unchanging, etched-in-stone, unwilling to open their hearts and eyes to the truth. And sadly, some still believe the truth is what these haters have been telling us. But the fact is that religion has moved farther and faster than politics have on the issue of gay marriage. Which is ironic, because the aspects of gay marriage that most gays have wanted is the civil and societal aspects, which they have thought perfectly reasonable, yet have not thought it possible that their neighborhood church would truly accept them and their life partner as equals to their straight congregation. But the truth is that we are more equal in these churches than we are out of them, in the halls of justice or in general society.
And why is that? Because the truth is that when people realize something like working against gay marriage is un-Christian, the family often eventually stops going to that church. But when people realize that working against gay rights is un-American, they don’t move out of the country to Spain or Norway. Because they have the misconception I mentioned. Yet ironically it’s because of that misconception that some churches’ homophobia has become distilled and virulent, while other churches have seen the light, while we’re all stuck in this country blaming leaders when we haven’t created the movement that was required to push representatives to legislate everybody else’s leap into full civil rights.
We throw the word “leader” around as if it is the job title of a politician. It’s not, it’s the exception to the rule. That’s not the fault of the would-be leaders in politics, it’s the fault of the would-be followers. The job title is “representative.” It’s called “public service.” We need to establish and persistently call for what we expect them to represent, and we need to show the public why the federal and state legal ramifications of the marriage contract—the only aspect of marriage that the state really legislates, after all—are in the public interest; and we need to show them why disenfranchisement is un-American.
And it wouldn’t hurt to show the degree to which we are attuned to the moral edification, the responsibility part of the marriage right. At the very least, we can acknowledge the reality that the moral high ground is not the province of activist homophobes in some churches.
And if we wanted to do more than the very least, while we’re reexamining our misconceptions about the evolution of the church, we might give those activist homophobes a run for their money, their civic involvement, and their vote.
Well … As a white gay woman I wish I could sit next to Rosa Parks and talk with her and get her advice. As I sit in the back of the bus and can only WISH the president would stop letting these backwoods S.O.B’S push me to the back of the bus as if me and my family do not contribute to this country!
If only the Northern states get freedom, why not just stop voting for the Democrats that abandon us?
I’m 47 and was born this way and can’t wait for Cuomo to get into the White House…
Obama… It’s like BB King….. The Thrill is Gone!
Rosa Parks didn’t badmouth President Eisenhower. She took her rightful place in her own community with quiet if stubborn dignity. Others marched and sang. Not predominantly at the White House for them either, they went into the most racist communities and faced down the real oppressors at the local and state levels.
If we stop voting for the Democrats, how does that bring us to a better place? With Mitt Romney who has come out in support of amending the U.S. Constitution, as well as repealing the health care law, and undoing all manner of other progress Obama signed, in much the same way Reagan did with Carter? If you’re 47, you must remember the promise of the ’70s, with the ERA and gay lib, ending when Democrats did just as you ponder and went with the Moral Majority to back Ronald Reagan, plunging us into a decade of delusion.
Only Reagan would be rejected by todays Republican party. They only pay him lip service, they’re hard-core ideologues today. Why not just stop voting for the Democrats? Because the Republicans are worse, or have you honestly forgotten? And with Lily Ledbetter, and the repeal of DADT before most of the military said they were ready, and dropping the defense of DOMA, and the hate crimes act, and the violence against women act, and the statements by Joe Biden and Arnie Duncan just this weekend…Rosa Parks would smack sense into us and show us how far we’ve come.
Twelve years before that day on the bus, she became actively involved in the NAACP and a member of the Voters’ League—what’s our NAACP and Voters’ League and how involved in them are we?
Who’s our Rev. Martin Luther King?
Because Obama is our Lyndon Johnson, and we need to keep that in perspective. He’s the President of the United States, we’re the ones who have to be the activists who work around the country.
What did King’s followers do? They didn’t demonstrate against the White House, they demonstrated in the racist states and towns and let the rest of the country see how awful these racists were, and be ashamed.
Why wait for Cuomo, and endure 8 years of Romney first, when a second term of Obama is all we need? I actively supported Hillary Clinton in ’08.
Obama… It’s like Al Green….. Let’s Stay Together!
Start a campaign asking moderate Republicans to register as Independents to show their anger at the mass human rights violations and that will shake things up.
i’m forcing myself to look at this positively and constructively the morning after. the measure only got 59 to 60% of north carolinians, with, as people have said above, some counties in the state going 3 to 1, or 2 to 1 against it. compare that with even redder swaths of the deep south, where such measures in alabama or mississippi passed by 90%+ margins. the other side is slowly losing their edge, and the battle over the 45-55% range–where most political decisions play out these divisive days–lies within our sights. in the meantime, someone in the know, post a list of carolina products to ban, carolina companies to boycott. how can we best make the haters feel the power of the gay dollar, reactively and inexorably leaving the state?
Isn’t it ironic: Only 50 years ago, American voters were concerned that John F Kennedy may not be a suitable president because of his Roman Catholic, religious beliefs. The separation of church and state was enshrined in the US Constitution, to ensure equal representation for all citizens of this powerful and influential nation, Now today, if a presidential candidate is not waving the American flag in one hand, and a holy cross in the other, he/she would not be considered American enough for the office.
Equality for all under the law is the cornerstone of American civil liberties. Basic human rights, such as marriage equality and equal rights for the LGBTQ community, should never be put to the popular vote. The founding fathers of this nation never intended the USA to become a mob rule state. Voting away the rights of any minority group to the whim and satisfaction of any majority, in not the democracy that made this country great. It’s why others around the world cannot take the US seriously any more.
We speak out of both sides of our mouths… invading and calling-out countries that do not accept our doctrine, while treating our own with intolerance and hate. We love to brag about being the biggest and best at everything… Does America truly want to be the last civilized nation on earth to recognize equal rights for its LGBT citizens?
It is time Christian fundamentalist be seen for what they truly are: intolerant, bigoted and divisive. If Jesus walked the earth today, would He cast the LGBT to the wolves? Anyone who believes in God and voted to support this amendment, must know deep within their heart, their actions are very un-christian.
Queerty has moderated my post once too often.
Obama doesn’t want to offend his conservative black base. Face it – blacks are extremely conservative when it comes to homosexuality. Individual blacks may be accepting of homosexuality but, overall, they are very negative towards it. They’re very churchy, which means they are exposed to daily homophobic rants from black pastors.
Keep in mind that a lot of Democrats voted in support of the amendment to ban gay marriage. Without Democrat support, this amendment would not have passed.
Ok so Dan Savage and others cannot blame Blacks for passing this like they wrongly did with California. Considering that the Black population in N.C. is 21.5% While the White population is 68.5% is is overwhelmingly Protestant with the largest denomination being Southern Baptist, mostly White. And many think it’s only Black religious folks. Ha…
Another thing that needs to be said is that the anti-amendment campaign by the GLBT community in North Carolina was poor. It could have been much better.
If I had been in charge, I would have reduced the female presence and increased the male presence in the ads. That’s because the impressions that the general public have of lesbians is that they are trivial, attention-seeking, capricious, fake and manipulative. Unfortunately, there are elements of truth to all these.
Keep in mind that women tend to use their sexuality as a marketing ploy. They are sellers by nature, and will fake their interest in sex in order to obtain non-sexual rewards, such as financial ones. This fact impedes our ability to gain the respect of the masses at large.
Overall, people are rightly cynical about female sexual behavior. By including so many lesbians in the anti-amendment campaign, we harmed our cause.
As a fellow gay North Carolinian I must say that I am disappointed but yet optimistic at the same time. Yes we lost 61-39, however living here my whole life I have seen a huge difference in the support of the gay community. I believe had the vote happened just 10 years ago, the differential would have been much more than just 20 or so percentage points.
I thank everyone from other states that have supported us on this site. You must remember that like the majority of other states we have urban areas along with many rural areas. As the map shows the majority of the urban counties voted against the amendment. However there are many rural areas in the state where the population is uneducated and not well cultured. And of course you have many right wing religious members in which their churches pleaded for them to vote for. On the other hand it was very heart warming to see many churches take a stance and encourage their members to vote against.
North Carolina is not just a “bunch of backwood rednecks.” We have universities that rank in the top echelon throughout the country (Duke, Wake Forest, UNC etc) and I honestly feel that we are moving to become more of an egalitarian state, slowly but surely.
This are STRAIGHT females! Come on man, we can’t fight YOU too for equality! Damn!
… I know you mean well but some of us. are not getting any younger. Unfortunately the injustice for us is getting intolerable!!!!
Gloves off. Gay people are allowing this to happen. Stop relying on others to do this for you. These people continue to VOTE us out of existence. You can refer to Dr. King and Rosa Parks to your hearts content and bemoan all of these social injustices till the cows come home but that gets you squat. Know your enemy. It is EVERY CHRISTIAN, EVERY REPUBLICAN, EVERY TEA-BAGGER. ALL OF THEM. There are no more shades of tolerance or levels of understanding. These people want us dead, end of story. Sad day indeed.
Unfortunately most people work an average of 12-14 hrs a day. I’ve done countless speeches in the gay community and also str8 communities. LGBT communities surprisingly are like” what?” Most don’t even have a clue, and until we FIND a way to Unite, the right wing nuts will continue to gloat in victory!
@Charli: I know, it breaks my heart to watch US give THEM the pleasure of destroying us.
No. 35 · Tackle wrote, “Ok so Dan Savage and others cannot blame Blacks for passing this like they wrongly did with California.”
Aside from whatever Dan Savage said (I didn’t pay any attention to him), a competent statistical analysis of the California vote showed that, while there was an excess black vote in favor of Proposition 8, this merely reflected a larger fraction of Blacks going to church regularly – the data showed that religion, not race or ethnic background, was the determining factor. That sort of data is important – your chances of winning go up if you use your resources (i.e, money) effectively, and in this case a good tactic might have been to spend some effort on “outreach” to preachers – a common misconception was that they would have been required to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies when the California Supreme Court decision that overturned Proposition 22 specifically cited precedents to the contrary. If we had been able to remove that misconception, the preacher’s incentive to try to get their congregations to vote for Proposition Eight would have been lower.
One exit poll showed a very high Black vote in favor of Proposition Eight. A subsequent analysis came out with a much lower number. As I recall, contributing factors to an anomalously high value were an unrepresentative sample (in the exit poll, they picked precincts in which the voters were predominantly black, which excludes blacks living in integrated areas), and possibly a larger than typical statistical error. The post-election analysis showed that voters living in ethnically diverse areas were less likely to vote for Proposition Eight than people living in less diverse areas (regardless of race or ethnicity), so the sample in the exit poll was inadvertently biased.
In any case, such a post-election analysis would be well worth the effort in North Carolina – the data would be very useful for any subsequent effort to repeal the amendment.
Great. All of NC is now going to suffer financially because you radicals want to make an example of the state—even though there are 37 other states that have banned same-sex marriage. How mature.
@JM21: Good for you for clarifying that NC isn’t just a patch of backwoods filled with gay-hating churches. Do we have rednecks in our state? Sure we do—and so does California, New York, Vermont, and every other blue state out there.
@butchiez1951: I think it’s time to go back on your meds, sweetie. Since your reply to me had 0% to do with what I wrote (Blue States? Obama?), I can only guess that you’re arguing with the voices inside your head.
@Sam: Sorry Sam don’t know how you got that reply was meant for a person up the list. Guesss by the time I registered I had move that far down and hit reply button again. Sorry again. I actually come from one of the two counties that voted no. Just like I did. You noticed that the Amendment ended civli unions also I really thought tht would have pushed the people here to turn it down Guess all the people who were married showed up in force.
@B: I agree with some of what you say. True that polls were taken at precincts with large Black demographics and that the original high number (70%) was later revised (58%).
And I agree with you that it was about religion and not race or ethnic background.
Too bad that Dan Savage, Andrew Sullivan and Roseanne Barr would have realized that and kept race out of it before that went on their rants. Causing more damage and harm to an alredy fractured and divided community. Which the repercussions and blame are still lasting to this day.
Hopefully 2008 will be a learning lession to not be so quick rush to judgement and blame.
One question,why talk about love now? There was no love shown when the kkk marched in Dobson N.C.?
I’m sorry that this amendment went through. I do believe that gay partners should be allowed to have health and other benefits from their partners. However, I don’t think that same sex partners should have to be married to get these benefits and I don’t think that marriage between same sex partners is right. I DO read the bible and it specifically states that it is wrong to have a same sex relationship. I know everything in the bible may not be true and I do try to take what is written in a common sense approach, but if we didn’t have the technology to have “test tube” babies and surrogacy, then how would we keep mankind going if we were all gay? It’s not the way the world is supposed to be, and if we were all gay, then mankind would soon perish. Think about that for a while….
Margie, it doesn’t matter what your religious beliefs are, they shouldn’t burden another and be responsible for withholding secular, civil rights from your fellow Americans.
Are you aware that the entire 33 years Christ was on the planet He never uttered a word about gays? Not one word. If it were really important to Jesus, would He have not have said at least one sentence? Could it be that Rabbinical Paul (Saul) didn’t understand the complexities of human physiology? Christ did say to not judge one another. He spent a great deal of time on that matter. The word “homosexual” was added to the Bible in 1949.
To those who were told to, “think about Margie’s words for a while:
Would God rather we hide who we are, outwardly lie about our sexual identities, enter into empty marriages with these secrets, and not be truthful? Gays are lumped into one, big, amorphous category of sin by others who sin on a daily basis. Women don’t want to be solely defined by their sexuality, a very small part of a being’s personhood. What makes you think that gays want to be defined solely by this very small aspect of our being? God knows the truth about every person breathing, so to “pull off” a fake heterosexual life for the sake of being loved and accepted by humans (of this day) is not only dishonest, but pathetic. It is dehumanizing to sum up people based on this very small aspect of their personhood. Have integrity and don’t let anyone tell you that God hates you. God will likely consider that the worse offense. Be honest and truthful.
Margie, Here is something for you to think about for a while:
Peter J. Gomes Professor of Christian Morals, Harvard University;Minister, American Baptist Church
Opposition to gays’ civil rights has become one of the most visible symbols of American civic conflict this year (1992), and religion has become the weapon of choice. The army of the discontented, eager for clear villains and simple solutions and ready for a crusade in which political self-interest and social anxiety can be cloaked in morality, has found hatred of homosexuality to be the last respectable prejudice of the century. Ballot initiatives in Oregon and Maine would deny homosexuals the protection of civil rights laws. The Pentagon has steadfastly refused to allow gays into the armed forces. Vice President Dan Quayle is crusading for “traditional family values.” And Pat Buchanan, who is scheduled to speak at the Republican National Convention this evening, regards homosexuality as a litmus test of moral purity.Nothing has illuminated this crusade more effectively than a work of fiction, “The Drowning of Stephen Jones,” by Bette Greene. Preparing for her novel, Ms. Greene interviewed more than 400 young men incarcerated for gay-bashing, and scrutinized their case studies. In an interview published in The Boston Globe this spring, she said she found that the gay-bashers generally saw nothing wrong in what they did, and, more often than not, said their religious leaders and traditions sanctioned their behavior. One convicted teen-age gay-basher told her that the pastor of his church had said, “Homosexuals represent the devil. Satan,” and that the Rev. Jerry Falwell had echoed that charge. Christians opposed to political and social equality for homosexuals nearly always appeal to the moral injunctions of the Bible, claiming that Scripture, is very clear on the matter and citing verses that support their opinion. They accuse others of perverting end distorting texts contrary to their “clear” meaning. They do not, however, necessarily see quite as clear a meaning to biblical passages on economic conduct, the burdens of wealth and the sin of greed. Nine biblical citations are customarily invoked as relating to homosexuality. Four (Deuteronomy 23:17, 1 Kings 14:24, I Kings 22:46 and II Kings 23:7) simply forbid prostitution by men and women. Two others (Leviticus 18:19-23 and Leviticus 20:10-16) are part of what biblical scholars call the Holiness Code. The code explicitly bans homosexual acts. But it also prohibits eating raw meat, planting two different kinds of seed in the same field and wearing garments with two different kinds of yarn. Tattoos, adultery and sexual intercourse during a woman’s menstrual period are similarly outlawed. There is no mention of homosexuality in the four Gospels of the New Testament. The moral teachings of Jesus are not concerned with the subject. Three references from St. Paul are frequently cited (Romans 1:26-2:1, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 and I Timothy 1:10). But St. Paul was concerned with homosexuality only because in Greco-Roman culture it represented a secular sensuality that was contrary to his Jewish- Christian spiritual idealism. He was against lust and sensuality in anyone, including heterosexuals. To say that homosexuality is bad because homosexuals are tempted to do morally doubtful things is to say that heterosexuality is bad because heterosexuals are likewise tempted. For St. Paul, anyone who puts his or her interest ahead of God’s is condemned, a verdict that falls equally upon everyone.
And lest we forget Sodom and Gomorrah, recall that the story is not about sexual perversion and homosexual practice. It is about inhospitality, according to Luke 10:10-13, and failure to care for the poor, according to Ezekiel 16:19·50: “Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.” To suggest that Sodom and Gomorrah is about homosexual sex is an analysts of about as much worth as suggesting that the story of Jonah and the whale is a treatise on fishing. Part of the problem is a question of interpretation. Fundamentalists and literalists, the storm troopers of the religious right, are terrified that Scripture, wrongly interpreted, may separate them from their values. That fear stems from their own recognition that their “values” are not derived from Scripture, as they publicly claim. Indeed, it is through the lens of their own prejudices and personal values that they “read” Scripture and cloak their own views in its authority. We all interpret Scripture: Make no mistake. And no one truly is a literalist, despite the pious temptation. The questions are, By what principle of interpretation do we proceed, and by what means do we reconcile “what it meant then” to what it means now?” These matters are far too important to be left to scholars and seminarians alone. Our ability to judge ourselves and others rests on our ability to interpret scripture intelligently. The right use of the Bible, an exercise as old as the church itself, means that we confront our prejudices rather than merely confirm them. For Christians, the principle by which Scripture is read is nothing less than an appreciation of the work and will of God as revealed in that of Jesus. To recover a liberating and inclusive Christ is to be freed from the semantic bondage that makes us curators of a dead culture rather than creatures of a new creation. Religious fundamentalism is dangerous because it cannot accept ambiguity and diversity and is therefore inherently intolerant. Such intolerance, in the name of virtue, is ruthless and uses political power to destroy what it cannot convert. It is dangerous, especially in America, because it is anti-democratic and is suspicious of “the other,” in whatever form that “other” might appear. To maintain itself, fundamentalism must always define “the other” as deviant. But the chief reason that fundamentalism is dangerous is that, at the hands of the Rev. Pat Robertson. the Rev. Jerry Falwell and hundreds of lesser-known but equally worrisome clerics, preachers and pundits, it uses Scripture and the Christian practice to encourage ordinarily good people to act upon their fears rather than their virtues.
Fortunately, those who speak for the religious right do not speak for all American Christians, and the Bible is not theirs alone to interpret. The same Bible that the advocates of slavery used to protect their wicked self-interests is the Bible that inspired slaves to revolt and their liberators to action. The same Bible that the predecessors of Mr. Falwell and Mr. Robertson used to keep white churches white is the source of the inspiration of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and the social reformation of the 1960’s. The same Bible that anti-feminists use to keep women silent in the churches is the Bible that preaches liberation to captives and says that in Christ there is neither male nor female, slave nor free. And the same Bible that on the basis of an archaic social code of ancient Israel and a tortured reading of Paul is used to condemn all homosexuals and homosexual behavior includes metaphors of redemption, renewal, inclusion and love – principles that invite homosexuals to accept their freedom and responsibility in Christ and demands that their fellow Christians accept them as well. The political piety of the fundamentalist religious right must not be exercised at the expense of our precious freedoms. And in this summer of our discontent, one of the most precious freedoms for which we must all fight is freedom from this last prejudice.
Peter J. Gomes Professor of Christian Morals, Harvard University;Minister, American Baptist Church
Holy crap batman! That was awesome! Had to copy n paste!!!
Enjoy your day equality1
Hey girl thanx for tha doggie bag, but sugar you need
to tighten up on that there Bible your thumping!
I think that equality1 spelled out what your Bible homework should be!
Can you imagine a world where we are all the same?
Can you imagine a world where everyone loved each other?
And didn’t try to harm the other or the world?
I assume you’re str8…
Okay: YOUR people( straights) kill babies in a daily basis!
YOUR people exploit women on a daily basis!
YOUR people rape little children and hide behind a religious robe!
Shall I go on honey? You see ALL we want is to love and BE with each other.
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