“After many years of consideration, has made the courageous decision to honor his true identity,” says the publicist of Chastity — who goes by Chaz — Bono, who has already begun the FTM process. Naturally, there are requests for privacy. This is the second time Chaz will have come out: The first, at 18, to her parents that she was gay (Star outed her in 1990, though it took a 1995 Advocate article for her to go public), and now to the world as a transgender person. Given mom’s, shall we say, “trying times” in accepting her daughter’s sexuality the first go-round, we hope Cher‘s a smidge more welcoming this time.
oh boy
Poor Cher. No matter how open-minded a parent you are, this can’t be easy. The child you have always identified with one way you have to identify with in a whole new way.
It has to be a little heartbreaking for her. I wonder if sometimes she wishes she had a spangled and sequined up little Cher of her own?
TANK
I wonder if sometimes she wishes she had a spangled and sequined up little Cher of her own?
LOL!
Qjersey
What would happen to transgenderism if we permitted men to be feminine and women to be masculine without any repercussion?
just posing a provocative questions.
Fitz
She will not become a man. She will become a woman with altered breasts and artificial hormone levels.
TANK
@Fitz:
Not cool. SO you’ll just be a heterosexual who sleeps with members of the same sex? Gender’s not sex.
Scott
My best friend in college transitioned from female to male about 10 years after college. It didn’t surprise me in the least because I knew there was some conflict. He was very happy to hear I wasn’t surprised and was supportive. It’s all in how one’s brain is wired and no one should be discriminated for how they were born.
Em
@Fitz:
Even I know that just sounds stupid.
LOL
Jake the libertarian
@Fitz:
I agree. Coming out as gay is a recognition of who you truly are as a person. I am actually gay. No matter how much I might wish or try, or how much surgery I have… I will never actually be a woman (not that I want to be).
Before I get killed here, I fully support trans people and actively fight for their rights to live free of discrimination and hate, the same as I do for myself. I am for their right to marry and their right to adopt children and live however they wish.
Boo
Jake- if you agree with Fitz, then by definition you do not fully support trans people.
HayYall
Man the harpoons!
Jake the libertarian
@Boo:
I can live with that. I do fully support their rights though. I just am not convinced that believing you are not supposed to be the gender you were born isn’t something that many people convince themselves is true rather than a biological explanation of what is true. I am physically attracted to other men. That makes me gay… It can be clinically proven. The same can’t be said for trans people. They are claiming to be something they are not. A man is absolutely not a woman.
At the same time I am not trans. I can’t expect to understand it. I also suspect that if many of you were honest with yourselves, you would admit that you don’t get it either.
homofied
For me its simply that I do not as a gay man consider my gayness to be the same thing as my gender identity. I’m for a big tent in terms of equal rights and discrimination, but I’m not for gay people being grouped with trans people as somehow made of the same stuff. We simply aren’t. The example being, that somehow a gay web site must also cater to trans people, as though the are one target audience, or it is not worthy somehow. We have some issues in common, but we are not the same. LGBTQ for me is pigeon holing a vast canvas of humanity under one arbitrary heading, and I’m not for it. Sorry…
Fitz
All I am saying is that there is a difference between gender and gender-Identity. Gender is determined by DNA, Gender-Identity is determined by the Self. That does not mean that I hate FTMs or don’t support people’s right to make themselves look like they want to. I am just saying that you don’t switch gender, you switch gender identity. A less charged example: I can wear green contacts– that doesn’t mean that I have green eyes, it means that I have the appearance of green eyes. I can get a really good tan. Does that mean I am Latino? What if I change my name and wear Latino Drag?
Even if bottom surgery were better than it is (and someday it will be), we don’t have the capacity to change gender.
Jake the libertarian
@homofied:
Nicely said.
strumpetwindsock
@Jake the libertarian:
I don’t think any trans person is under the illusion that he or she is making a perfect gender switch, and I agree with you that those of us who aren’t trans cannot truly understand it.
On the other hand the denial of their reality, however well-intentioned (“claiming to be something they are not”, for example), smacks of the same discrimination and denial that we get from straights.
@homofied: As far as I am concerned anyone who is discriminated against based on orientation or issues of gender fluidity is in the same group as us. Lesbians aren’t the same as gay men either, but we have no problem seeing our struggle as the same.
strumpetwindsock
@Jake the libertarian:
And I read your comment #8 and realize you support trans rights. My citing your comment was not intended as an attack, but I do think you might be making an assumption about a belief that is not there.
Thom
well Fitz is right, you may be a man in your head but no surgery can change the fact that you are biologically a female or vice versa.
TANK
@strumpetwindsock:
blah blah blah.
Dave
@Fitz: I agree. I thought she was already a man? All this hypersensitivity can get silly. It’s just as ridiculous and the Genetic Woman that recently gave birth but has taken hormones and Identifies as a man but didn’t want to give up the vagina. To each their own.
strumpetwindsock
@Thom:
Again, no reasonable person (and especially not someone who is transitioning) is under that kind of illusion.
That kind of misunderstanding is in the order of straights who assume effeminate gay men are just trying to be women, or that butch lesbians are trying to be men.
strumpetwindsock
Do you guys even know any trans people?
Have you ever discussed this issue with someone who is actually familiar with it?
paulied
Earnest question: If Chaz has a partner, is she now straight?
Dave
@paulied: Good questoin. Can he be considered a straight marriage?
Andrew Triska
@Dave: As far as legality? If he changes his legal gender on his birth certificate, sure. After that, he’ll only be able to marry women in most states.
@strumpetwindsock: Well-said. No one’s talking about changing biological gender — all he’s doing is making his body more in line with the gender role he feels comfortable in, which is what all transpeople do. I’m tired of the “they’ll-always-be-men/women” crowd that pops up every time trans issues are mentioned. Of course he’ll still have XX chromosomes, but he’ll look, act, dress, and feel like a man. You wouldn’t notice him if you saw him on the street. Why begrudge him that?
Prof. O. G. Whataschnozell
@oh boy: You think a decision like that is a tough one wait till gay weddings start taking place and the parents and family’s feelings toward crying.
You know, as in crying at your sisters wedding? As for the parents one can only wonder about the sincerity of the tears but I am sure there are going to be many a father crying, for various reasons of course.
Lord I tell you that is one social experiment that is going to rock the foundation of the entire world.
Andrew
@Fitz:
Actually, gender is far more plastic and far more complex than what you say. i.e., that it’s “determined by DNA.” That DNA coding is necessary does not mean it is solely determinative or sufficient. (See, e.g., The Tree of Knowledge by Maturana and Varella or other works on the biology of cognition and heredity, etc., or current works on gender dysphoria, etc.)
Even without going into the science or arguing for a “truth” about the issue, it seems to me that those of us who don’t struggle with gender identity issues should approach those who do with the ultimate compassion. And, being compassionate doesn’t include judging the validity of the person’s life experience or choice to transition. Look for common ground instead and choose to be supportive and compassionate. It’s the right thing to do and it just feels better anyway. Cheers.
scott ny'er
@Jake the libertarian:
dude, what’s to get it or not to get. Just accept it and move on.
That’s all we ask of straight people. Live and let live.
If, I’m in an incredibly analytical mood and have nothing to do whatsoever and actually think about the gender-identity issue, yeah, I’ll admit I can never understand why someone would want to do that, etc. But, for me, I don’t think of that, I read that Chastiy will become Chaz, say to myself, “oh shit” and moved on.
I’ll admit, I did think, couldn’t Chaz work on his body and look like Zac Efron or something. But, I realized that was unbecoming of me and very superficial and moved on.
Nickadoo
@Fitz: Gender is determined by DNA…
Is it really that simple?
http://tinyurl.com/moglfw
Windyloo
@Fitz: You are just confusing your terms. You mean that you cannot change your chromosomal sex not gender. Gender is a social construct. Sex is a biological category based on chromosomes, primary,and secondary sex characteristics. The latter two can and are changed through surgery and hormone therapy. The former does not change. All three do vary a great deal among individuals, however. Gender (of which identity is one part) is the social category into which a person is placed based on the way they present themselves in a social context. This is, initially, attached to an assigned sex category, but in reality- in day to day life- we do not know the sex of the clothed people with whom we interact. So we interact with gender not sex. Gender varies a great deal accross cultures and over time.
edgyguy1426
I have an FTM guy that works for me and most of his friends gender identify as men, although they are not considering surgery or hormones they like to be referred to as ‘him’ and ‘he.’ The other day I saw a guy with a full beard walking down the street in a dress and no one went out of their way to stare or make verbal comments and I thought: “I hope we’re getting to a place where people can be who they want and wear what they want and other people are cool with it” Should mention that I live in chicago but this was a very blue collar part of town.
Chuck
Cher: Chastiry’s a man, hoooooo!
PJR
@Dave: “…but didn’t want to give up the vagina”. So, how does one “give up the vagina”? Do you just sew it up? Do you really think its that easy?
Lance Rockland
If it makes her happy….
andy_d
@Qjersey: nothing at all would happen.
Windyloo’s comments (number 29) say it most eloquently.
mb00
Who are we to judge. I hope Chaz finally feels complete. I have a friend that transitioned about 10 years ago. When he was a lesbian, I still could tell he wasn’t completely happy. Now he is and I love him for that.
So let’s stop criticizing Bono because god forbid we our “beloved Cher” might have a hard time with it, but rather give her encouragement for having the balls to really make himself happy.
Fitz
I’m a green eyed Latino!
Bebe
Transpeople are pretty aware their sexual identity is different from their sexual orientation, even though many of them do identify as queer. I don’t have sexual identity issues, but I have seen once awkward, uncomfortable and unhappy people blossom after transitioning, much the way I did when I came out. That experience of personal liberation is something we share. So personally, I am happy to consider them part of our community, if that is where they want to be.
It takes straight people a leap of faith when they first try an accept us. I’ve always felt that I owed that to trans people.
galefan2004
Depending on the laws of the particular state, if you legally change your gender identity you can be legally married to a member of the opposite sex. I believe that TB is legally married to his wife. Anyways, I have a lot of friends that are transgendered, and I’ve done drag for the fun of it and the stage presence. However, I like my genitalia. I think people deserve to be happy, and if being transgendered makes them happy we have no right to judge.
homofied
@all you reasonable folks, here’s to your reasonable-ness. Unfortunately, at least here in sf, reasonable-ness has taken a back seat to angry finger pointing and elbowing of gay men, in particular, as somehow evil and discriminatory with respect to lesbians and trans people (and blacks and the poor — as though a lot of gay men aren’t black, poor, latino and of every other stripe) and on and on… as though we are somehow beholden to genuflect to everyone else’s ‘agenda’ as part of our day to day life. I never expressed my identity as being colored somehow by a lack of inclusion in the trans community, or the lesbian community or any other community. I just want to be treated with respect, and not be forced into someone else’s idea of what my community is. I pick my community, and its counter-liberating to try to force me to do otherwise.
FreaksAbound
Fuckin fairy freaks.
Mark in Colorado
@Chuck: LOL!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnLf7ghM-6E
sem
Alright. Another insensitive Queerty headline and another dialogue in the comment section that, by and large, is hypocritical at its best and repulsive at its worst.
One of my great frustrations with this movement is how quick we are to point out when individuals and groups make us into “others”… but so many of us seem to have no problem doing the same thing (see: horribly misinformed comments about trans people above).
I don’t have the time or patience to give this issue justice, but I would like to point out that a large part of homophobia is caused by the perceived subversion of traditional gender norms. Gender identity and sexual orientation, though obviously distinct qualities, do have some relation. Especially in the arguments that cranky bigots use against both.
Finally, I would proffer that taking the attitude of “I just want my rights. I don’t care about anyone else’s” is ridiculously selfish and harmful and does a great deal of damage to the cause of equality. I hate to bust out a cliched quote, but I will anyway: “Nobody’s free until everybody’s free.”
Plus, hating on trans people makes you seem like a giant douche.
Russell
“Plus, hating on trans people makes you seem like a giant douche.”
SO TRUE.
I know that being a guy who likes guys doesn’t (and shouldn’t?) automatically make a person totally sensitive and educated, but it still peeves me every time a gay guy who’s suffered discrimination based on his not living up to hetero norms (which are really just a type of gender norm, in a way) turns around and says that trans people are weird or creepy.
I’m not saying that gays and trans people are the same, just that we get the same kind of shit from the same kind of people. I’m gay and trans, so I’m rolling my eyes wherever I am.
michael
From a spiritual perspective and reincarnation there are teachings that sometimes souls jump into bodies that are opposite of their true spiritual identities because they may have been abused or killed because of the sex of their bodies. A good example is when female babies are killed at birth such has been the case in the far east because boys are more favored and their were limits on the amount of children a family could have. The soul of the female child says “this is not a safe body to be in” so decides to take a male body the next time around. But more often than not the culture they find themselves does not have the same attitudes and they realize what they did to be safe was not necessary. Just a spiritual perspective for those who consider those angles.
TANK
@michael:
Sounds like a theory. How would I go about testing it? Is it falsifiable? Is it an angle?
TANK
@TANK:
In fact, can you provide a single compelling reason to believe that this “conjecture” of yours is true?
emma
Editors: Cher’s son. He/him/his. I know you’re trying to be good trans allies, so please respect trans people’s identities and use the appropriate pronouns.
Andrew Triska
@emma: Eh, this happens every time they cover trans issues. I’ve learned not to notice it.
Trilasker
Can a person determine the sex of a clothed person without relying on appearance?
Jaxson67
what did trans people do before advances in surgery became available?
dgz
@Jaxson67: suffer. or just cross-dress.
———————————
anywho, i know a man who transitioned to become a woman, then married a lesbian. that’s really what awakened me to the difference between gender and sexuality. not gonna say i understand it 100%, but am trying.
Boo
@Jake the libertarian:
I fully support your rights too.
“I am physically attracted to other men.”
Or maybe you just didn’t bond with your dad and sexualized your need for male approval. Many say that can be clinically proven too.
“At the same time I am not trans. I can’t expect to understand it.”
Really?
“A man is absolutely not a woman.”
Good thing that transwomen aren’t men, then. A man absolutely can’t love another man, only work out sexualized needs for paternal affection or the trauma of childhood sexual abuse with him.
At the same time, I’m not a gay man so I can’t expect to understand it.
Now if anyone’s interested in what’s actually been discovered, instead of just spouting off knee-jerk opinions, take a look at this:
http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2009/05/brain-gender-identity-presentation-by.html
There are several others studies showing evidence of cross-gendered brain wiring in the transgendered. It’s real. It’s biology. Get over it.
osocubano
Well, I have a friend who was straight when he was a male and is now a lesbian.
I don’t understand it, and I really don’t need to.
It was fun meeting her mother recently, the poor woman was telling me stories from “his” childhood, but kept correcting her pronouns, until my friend said: “Ma, for Christ’s sake, I was a boy then!”
Vanhattan
@TANK:
His post is about a spiritual theory, not a physical one. There are many concepts on the planet that can’t be formally tested under our current scientific models.
As an alternative way of viewing his post, no one yet knows what creates hetero / homo sexuality or sexual identity. Sure there are plenty of ideas out there, but they too are nothing more than theories.
There is actually very little in the universe that has been proven. Most universal laws are not that at all, just pretty logical theories until they are disproven and another theory takes its place.
Dany
@Qjersey: I was wondering exactly the same thing. I think that a freeing up of gender roles would allow people to be themselves without feeling the need to alter their bodies with hormones and surgery.
Andrew
@homofied:
I’ve always thought that class (economic strata) is the ultimate “dividing line” or factor in community. This kinda speaks to what you’ve experienced in SF. So for example: as a white gay male upper-middle-class white-collar professional, I likely have much more in common with a latino or black or female or trans person who is also an upper-middle class white collar professional-type than I would with a white gay male working class person or a white gay male upper class person. (I hate using the vernacular of “upper class” or “middle class”, but that’s what we’re used to.)
Emily
You know, it’s so easy for you [cisgender] people to just look at someone and say you know what gender a person is, isn’t it? It doesn’t impact you in any way, so you just mosey along without a care. But guess what, you have the privilege of not having to think about your gender. You just are what you are, and you don’t have any conflict to deal with.
It’s so different for myself or anybody else who is trans. I’m at a point in my life, now that I’ve succeeded in my transition, where I am at peace with myself and who I am. I continually strive for personal growth like everyone else, but ultimately I am now happy with my gendered life. But, until recently, it wasn’t always like that. To have a mind that can’t match your physiology is a nightmarish situation that is difficult to escape, and unfortunately all to often the “cure” is perceived as worse than the “disease.” Finding my gender was a difficult struggle that almost tore my life apart. The only path to finding that peace was to realize who I really was, inside, a woman.
Yet so many people strive to deny me that right. To project their own opinions about who I am on me. Yet how can anybody else do that? Nobody has my experience in life but myself. Without that crucial bit of evidence, nobody can say who I am but me. Otherwise, if you are free to tell me that I am a man, then I am just as free to tell you who you are – whether I should choose to invalidate your gender, culture, religion, social status or any other aspect of your life.
You stick to your own privilege, and I’ll gladly stick to mine. Otherwise, all bets are off.
TANK
His post is about a spiritual theory, not a physical one.
Well, “spiritual theories” are about the way the world is, as this one was. So if it’s about the way world is, then it needs to be testable or falsifiable like any other claim about the way the world is. Now how would I go about confirming this hypothesis? That’s what it is…and that’s what every other “spiritual theory” is, too…
<iThere are many concepts on the planet that can’t be formally tested under our current scientific models.
Right, and if that’s true, are they “concepts on the planet”? Rather, are they concepts “about the planet”? Nah…unfalsifiable claims that have no connection at all to experience are not hypotheses about the way the world is…
As an alternative way of viewing his post, no one yet knows what creates hetero / homo sexuality or sexual identity. Sure there are plenty of ideas out there, but they too are nothing more than theories.
Oh, okay, so you appeal to ignorance about knowing the scientific theories of human sexual orientation…none of them make mention of spirits or ghosts. And state that all scientific theories which are testable to varying degrees, and are thus equal. Who knew that caloric was the equal to kinetic theory in explaining temperature! IT’s just taste that determines the difference…I personally feel that chemists are being awfully unfair to alchemists and that astronomers need to listen to astrologers because, after all…it’s all the same in what they purport to actualy KNOW about the universe.
There is actually very little in the universe that has been proven.
Shifty! “proven” to you means something that science cannot do–prove an empirical posit to the degree of certainty of a mathematical truth. YOu don’t know what science is, though…
Most universal laws are not that at all, just pretty logical theories until they are disproven and another theory takes its place.
Or what a logical theory is. A universal law…hmmm, what do you mean by universal law? Do you mean a law of nature? Oh, okay…so laws of nature are not laws of nature….that violates self identity, which is a law of logic–that which determines meaningful sentences from meanintless sentences.
TANK
Every “spiritual theory” deals with causality on some level. And causality is observable and measurable…we can make predictions based upon it. That’s not saying much for “spiritual theories” or religion…
angele
hello why is everyone so dumb here, being gay is having sex with the same gender.
Transgender has nothing to do with that! its how your brain is and if you feel like your a woman or man, nothing to do with sex.
angele
how can people be so stupid to actually say i dont agree if you never been through it or feel like they do ?
sorry everyone wasnt born as perfect as the people critcizing on here!
galefan2004
It makes me happy to read stories about people that have transitioned and are now at peace with their gender identity. The truth is that many of us, even those of us that don’t identify as transgenders, are not peace with our gender identity. Hardly a moment in a day goes by where I don’t think to myself rather that comment I made came across as fem or if the way I walk is fem or the fact that I want to be the bottom much more than I want to be the top makes me fem. I think that gay people should have more sensitivity for people that truly conflicted on a larger scale about their own gender identity because we go through it on a lesser extent hourly.
eggfu
There is far more scientific proof to support transsexualism than homosexuality. Brain scans show that people with gender dysporia function mentally in a way that is that are not congruent with their physical sex. I suggest those of you who believe that trans men are “not really” men or trans women are “not really” women look into the case of David Reimer. Its absurd to suggest that people transition on a whim or in order to conform to heteronormativity when you consider the 0.4 percent regret rate.
I suspect those who want to divorce trans people from the LGBT movement have gender insecurities of their own that need to be addressed. There are far less trans people than homosexuals, and excluding them gender-related rights legislation is a body blow to their relatively tiny community. And all to protect our fragile sense of masculinity.
Empathy is one of the key things that separate humans from beasts. Those here who refuse to “understand” what transsexualism is make me ashamed to be a gay man.
pablo
@Fitz:
he can’t ‘become a man’ because he already is a man, she’s just changing her body to suit this.
TANK
I hafta say that I’m disappointed by the choice of “chaz”. I think we’re dealing with a chuck here. Chuck is a cool name.
think
i notice no one responded to post #3, which i think is the most important question posed here. in a perfect world, everyone would be truly equal (not just in the laws, but in real life) regardless of if they are male or female, who they choose to love, or how closely they conform to gender stereotypes. does anyone disagree with this as the direction we all want to move towards? no one can rationally disagree with this because it just means hey, let’s allow everyone to be free.
my “brother” is a trans ftm. i watched this transition and the process up close and personal over 30 years ago. do you know what the first step to being accepted for surgery is? to “pass” as the target gender for a year. so what did that mean for my sibling? it meant acting extra “manly” to counter the fact that she was a fine boned short woman (5’1″). what is that except reinforcing gender stereotypes? i hope we can all agree that is exactly the opposite direction we need to go in as a society and is against the principles of freedom. if my sibling would have acted like a so-called effeminate man she would have failed the test and not gotten the surgery she became convinced she needed to be happy. “he” doesn’t seem any happier today, but it is certain that the hormones and srs (sex reassignment surgery) has shortened his life. i privately believe this was the wrong decision, made only because my family is incredibly misogynistic. i would never tell him this because i know it’s too late and would only hurt him.
please think about this carefully. what does this process say about effeminate men? that they are not real men because if you acted like that you wouldn’t get srs surgery? i am so stunned that the gay community hasn’t bothered to consider that trans people don’t just have a “different” agenda, but that their agenda is in fact the opposite to what gays and the women’s movement historically has fought for over many decades: freedom from gender stereotypes. extreme gender stereotyping is the root cause of so much unhappiness – with one’s body (not just for trans, but women/men who think they’re too tall/short or fat, etc.), also the cause of gay bashing etc.
i love my sibling and i know there is a lot of pain he tried to address with srs, but this wholesale acceptance of srs as the solution to what is a psychological/social issue is not good in the long term. it is a detrimental force in our society in that it reinforces gender stereotypes by definition.
i am sick of hearing people say, “i’m a man trapped in a woman’s body”, and no one ever notices that that is a completely absurd statement. or the idea that srs just makes the outside appearance match the inner person. think, don’t just accept something because people repeat the same absurdity over and over! what if i said i wanted surgery to make me tall because i’m a tall person trapped in a short person’s body? sure, I could find a doctor to do that somewhere, but that doesn’t make it a wise decision, just because surgeons can do things like that now? what if, like on the south park episode (i highly recommend it: Mr. Garrison’s shiney new vagina – i think that’s the title) i said i was really a black person in a white body? would “negroplasty” really be advisable, even if i claimed i was happier afterward?
surgical and medical solutions to life problems are all too popular today. at some point, i think people should at least be encouraged to accept their bodies as they are, especially when they are fully functional and healthy. people die from surgeries. there are risks. you can’t really go back if you realize, as many trans people have, that they regretted their srs.
i don’t reject trans people. i accept their individual decisions – it is their life. but i am asking some questions about the bigger picture. i want all people to be happy and equal and free. i think there is a big problem in our society when a radical new approach to a newly defined “problem” like so called gender dysphoria is not fully debated. there still is no gay marriage and the debates have gone on for decades, yet there is no real debate about srs, even though this is far more radical in that it is irreversible and risks death. hasn’t anyone else noticed that when the subject appears on the news, there is never any counter-opinion questioning srs. but mention gay marriage, and you have no trouble finding ministers who openly expound irrational views on the evils of homosexuality. why is that?
for those that accept srs with all good intentions in the name of accepting differences: do you know that there has never been any rigorous scientific follow-up on the long term outcomes? everyone has a story of how they know someone who seems happier after srs. but you don’t know that other approaches might have also brought happiness. worse, the first follow up studies showed srs did not result in any benefit overall, statistically. they were unhappy before, and they were unhappy after srs as they realized they could never be fully functional as the other gender. look it up: johns hopkins stopped doing srs a long time ago for this reason. many commit suicide afterward because they have irreversibly mutilated their bodies, but no one keeps track of long term outcomes. that should trouble everyone. if the outcomes are good then show us the research, show us the scientific basis and numbers.
i know this will anger many people because it has become politically incorrect to question this approach for people unhappy in their gender. but please, give these arguments some thought. thank you to qjersey #3 for posing a very good question that few ever ask – that alone is remarkable.
it takes a lot of courage to question popular opinion. thank you.