As a service to the gay community, throughout this Valentine’s Day season, Queerty is playing Anne Landers/Dan Savage to the online gay world of Craigslist, our favorite go-to spot for unintentional hilarity. We’ll give our advice to online suitors, but we hope you’ll get involved as well, helping to play cupid to the digital masses teeming to breathe heavy.
We were getting a little bored with the Missed Connections and this time found someone actually looking for love advice on Seattle’s m4m board:
Need advice on having an open relationship – m4m – 22 (dt)
Reply to: [email protected] [?]
Date: 2009-02-05, 7:45PM PSTI know this is probably the last place someone would go to for advice, but I thought I might give it a shot. My boyfriend wants to open up our relationship and I asked my lesbian sister and her girlfriend what I should do, since they’re in an open relationship. They told me that they have a deal where if one of them fall’s for someone and develops a close emotional bond, they’ll talk about it and allow it if it’s serious, but that casual sex is out. I told this to my boyfriend and he thinks they’re crazy, but I dunno…
Queerty’s Advice:
Your wannabe-philandering boyfriend is right. To start off with, if you want to be in a monogamous relationship with your boyfriend, you should just tell him and let the chips fall where they may, but if you do want to have some sort of open relationship, for god’s sakes, don’t fall your lesbian sister’s advice, since it makes absolutely no sense at all.
How about we take this to the next level?
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As we understand it, she’s telling you that if you or your boyfriend (or her and her girlfriend) fall in love with someone else, it’s cool, but that random hook-ups are out. This is totally backwards, but after thinking about it for a few head-scratching minutes, we think we’ve figured out where the problem lies– though, we’re going to have to make some wild (and probably sexist) generalizations to make sense of it.
One of the great things about being a gay guy is that you’re attracted to a gender that doesn’t make a big deal about sex. As a guy, you know you want sex like all the time and as a guy, you know that sex doesn’t really have to be a big deal. See? I told you there would be sexist generalizations. Women on the other hand (in a general, oh god, “please, don’t send us hate mail” sort of way) are all about emotions. Sex is an expression of an emotional bond for many women, as opposed to a quick desire to get your rocks off.
What’s crazy about your sister’s advice is that she’s telling you and your boyfriend that an open-relationship is okay (for them) if there’s a deep emotional bond, but not if it’s just to get your jollies off. This has to be one of those “men are from Mars, women are from Venus” moments, because we think it’s far worse to go and fall in love with someone than it is to randomly hook-up with them.
And because we’re already out here on the ledge, let’s jump off: Men get accused of being lying, cheating horny sluts all the time and of course, when they do, they respond “It didn’t mean anything!”, which women never believe, because for them, sex is Big Deal full of import and promises and what not. But seriously, ladies, men will have sex with most anything that moves given the opportunity and availability.
But women, or at the very least, Lesbian Sister and her girlfriend, are just as bad as the horny dudes. If, for women, it’s the emotional bond that matters, then they’re just as guilty as the guys, because let’s face it, women go around making deep, emotional bonds with everything that moves. If men are pervy sex sluts (which they are), women are emotional sluts (oh god, so much hate mail), not necessarily hooking-up with other people physically, but “hooking up” over deep late-night talks or after-work trips to the local wine bar.
So, our real advice to you is to tell your boyfriend you want to be in a monogamous relationship, because that sounds like what you really want, but unless you want to confuse your boyfriend, don’t go to him and tell him that he can have sex with other people he falls in love with– because then, you’d be a lesbian.
I’m desperate for some lesbians who are in or know of open relationships to weigh in here. Is this sister typical? Are hook-ups really worse than falling in love with someone else? Also, does anyone have advice for people looking to get into an open relationship?
NFN Scout
I know lots of queer women in open relationships, and no, that lesbian sister example is quite odd, almost the opposite of what most do. Tho of course poly folk do have significant multiple relationships… but I can’t think of any who’d then ban casual sex. Anyhowzie, the usual touchstone for advice on this is the book “Ethical Sluts”.
Brendan D.
Okay, disregarding a handful of wince-worthy things in this article, is that title really necessary?
EdWoody
I’m totally with Queerty on this – the lesbians are crazy. My boyf and I have an open relationship, and it’s exactly as you desribe – fuck who you want (as long as it’s safe and discreet) but come home to me at the end of the day.
Alexa
THOSE lesbians may indeed be crazy, but if it works for them then who is anyone else to judge? Not something I’d be happy with, and it’s almost certainly terrible advice for her brother – or for anyone else, for that matter. Open relationships in general only work if both people are in full agreement over the terms, if one is less enthusiastic about it then it’s doomed to failure.
And I don’t know where to begin on Japhy’s peculiar take on lesbians and women in general (just because you know what you’re saying is dumb doesn’t make it any less dumb), so I won’t even start, except to say that it explains a lot.
Cam
I’m in a monogomous relationship with my boyfriend, and even I’m confused by his lesbian sisters advice. Her advice seems to be a roadmap towards breaking up. (If you think you have a connection with this person, why not sleep with them and find out).
I have a feeling that she and her girlfriend will not be together much longer, even if they talk things over and share their feelings. (Ugh, no wonder the girlfriend is connecting with other people)
Femme
That advice was so whack and so un-lez-like that I have to think brother got it ass backwards and misunderstood what sis and GF were telling him. Lesbians green lighting emotional/romantic connections with other women? Not in my universe.
Rigato
Open relationships are just excuses to cheat. If you fuck someone else, you had better be ready to come home to your shit out on the sidewalk and all the locks changed.
Alexa
@Rigato:
Um no. If you have an open relationship you are allowed to sleep with other people, that’s the point. And if you are allowed to do it, it’s not cheating.
DeWillis Washington
Many of us, when we first come out, are drawn to the lesbian community with the dream of finding an all-embracing, welcoming community. Abuse in lesbian relationships doesn’t even enter the picture. After all, we are eager to meet other lesbians, find a sexual partner, make friends, fall in love, and at long last, find a place where being lesbian is not only accepted, but celebrated. The road getting there may have been a hard one, with people trying to stop us from being who we are, and ridiculing, rejecting, or hating us, but finally we have a community.
The rejection, isolation, and violence in our lives as marginalized people can intensify our desire for a safe and united community. But sometimes this desire can be so strong, we can make the mistake of dismissing, ignoring, and even denying problems that exist within the lesbian community.
I have repeatedly made this mistake. When I first heard about violence in lesbian relationships, I found it hard to believe. It did not fit my idealized image of the lesbian community. Even when I acknowledged that it happened, I minimized the reality. “At least it doesn’t happen as often as it does in straight relationships,” I would say. I was trying to avoid how I truly felt about the issue.
I soon realized that it was only by facing the painful truth about lesbian partner abuse that we could truly make our community the safe place we want it to be. By dodging or ignoring the issue, we become part of the problem. We create an environment which isn’t receptive to hearing lesbians speak of their abuse, or to helping them find the safety and support they deserve.
When we don’t listen to and support survivors of abuse in lesbian relationships, we fail to support other lesbians who need us. For it is lesbians who are in the best position to understand the issues that are particular to abuse in lesbian relationships — such as an abused lesbian who insists to her parents that her relationship is wonderful for fear that if they knew, it would confirm their believe that lesbian relationships aren’t stable. Or the lesbian who knows about abuse dynamics in straight relationships, but is unable to admit or even talk about the emotional abuse that goes on in hers.
SFButch
I think the brother got it backwards. That’s crazy. And by the way, that great photo you used to illustrate this article is from a wonderful lesbian feature called SPIDER LILIES.
Bri
Gahhh. I don’t have anything to say about the article, but can we just address the words “lesbian” and “sister” being put together? Both words imply that that the person in question is female. There’s no reason to say “lesbian.” Why can’t you (and the asker) just call her “gay”? Men don’t have a monopoly on the word but you’d think they did by the way some people speak.
like when I came out to my grandmother:
Me: I’m gay
Grandma: No you’re not
Me: Yes I am
Grandma: No you’re not
Me: Yes I am
Grandma: You’re not gay, you’re a lesbian.
Me: ???
naprem
@Bri: Ans what is she CHOOSES to call herself a lesbian? Are you going to tell her off for that too?
Bri
You missed my point. I call myself a lesbian, but I don’t say I’m a “lesbian woman.” Get me? It’s just repetitive.
Tobi
I can believe the sister’s set up, but I would have difficulty believing that it works. If it works for her and her partner, then great. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it’s more of a case of new poly folks trying to work out some set of rules to make things feel safer, and that they might find that rule come back to bite them later.
But as a poly dyke who often does have some decent advice to give, I must concur with Brendan here. Your title is unnecessarily inflammatory. Why do you have to dismiss all queer women when what you really mean is: “Don’t listen to your sister.” When you get bad advice from one person in a minority group, that doesn’t mean everyone in that group gives bad advice.
Cee
@ Alexa, “um yes.” Open relationships are just that, “Excuses to cheat” as Rigato stated. Sorry that you are in denial, but that is your prerogative. Spare me your extreme liberal antics.
@ Rigato, good job.
Jane
Wow, Queerty, really? Assuming that all lesbians think that same way? And blaming it on all women, particularly lesbians? No wonder so many of my lesbian friends call gay men some of the most misogynistic people around.
My girlfriend and I have consistently had a policy of making out (particularly while drunk) is not a big deal. Falling in love with someone else? Definitely a problem.
Trine S. Rasmussen
I’m not really sure, if this article was to be deeply thought-provoking or whatever (in doubt after reading some of these comments). I just thought it was pretty funny.
“let’s face it, women go around making deep, emotional bonds with everything that moves.”
As far as sexist generalizations goes, this has got to be one of the best worded. And I could never get upset with an article like this, since it was written by a like-minded with a sense of humor and published “in the community”. So screw (redundant) hate mail.
I’m just sayin’.
Alexa
@Cee: You may not like it or approve of it, but if you are in a relationship and are allowed to sleep with other people it is NOT cheating. Cheating, by definition, means doing something you are not allowed to do. It’s your right to not approve of open relationships, but you don’t get to redefine what the term means.
@Jane: exactly.