It sure was a gay day on MSNBC today. Daytime anchor Contessa Brewer, who’s hosting Kentucky’s Fairness Campaign party this month, was as blunt as she could be about her thoughts on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell and the survey going out to troops (“It is a civil rights issue…Is it time for our American leaders to stand up for what’s right and no matter what public opinion polls say to have the leadership and the courage to take a stand on it?”). And then Chris Jansing welcomed Lt. Dan Choi.
Says Choi: “This survey is absolutely heinous. It is an absolute insult. It’s embarrassing. In history, future generations are gonna look back at us and say, ‘In 2010, can you believe we spent almost $5 million putting out this survey?'”
Brandon Equality Brock
Lt. Dan Choi should be our hero, if he isn’t already.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
He is to me!
toby
sounds pretty democratic to me. i’m curious to see the results. if choi is accurate then he and everyone else serving should have nothing to worry about.
Michael
@toby: We already know the results from previous surveys of the troops which is why this survey is a major red flag. Even though 70% of the troops don’t have a problem with gays and lesbians serving, we can be assured the “results” coming from this survey are going to be far different. Call me paranoid, but this survey is the smelliest rat ever.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@ Toby: MY definition of “democratic” does not include phrasing questions that reinforce the idea that gays are childlike sex maniacs who can only control themselves if those straights who share sleeping quarters and/or showers with them don’t warn them ahead of time.
“Discuss how we expect each other to behave and conduct ourselves.”
Nor does it include giving respondents the option of saying the want to work in a unit with “only heterosexuals” any more than they would EVER be asked if they preferred to serve with other whites or Baptists or Democrats.
Sceth
“He was tried for being openly gay.”
Hey, that sounds familiar! In Africa and the Middle East.
Brutus
Choi would get a lot more credible if he ever made any concessions or ever said that anything was good instead of just ranting about how everything ever is an outrageous insult. He’s like the PETA of the gay rights movement.
Comparing the results of this survey to the actual effects of DADT repeal will, if nothing else, be a valuable set of sociological data.
One of my professors hypothesized that a society never truly accepts a group of people as part of the society unless and until that group is seen to be actively taking part in the society’s defense. I think there’s merit to that, and to me that’s probably the strongest reason to get rid of DADT and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly.
Gray
@Brutus: This is probably the most intellectual, intelligent and thoughtful comment I have ever read on queerty. Every point you made is right on the money. Dan Choi is truly hurting the chances of dadt repeal by playing exactly into the other sides hands. The ultimate argument that we are trying to make is that allowing gays to serve openly in the military will not have a negative impact on on morale order or DISCIPLINE. yeah chaining yourself to the whot house fence IN UNIFORM is a good way to male that case. Right. Stop giving republicans ammo to use against us, Dan Choi. You are a disgrace to all who truly respect the uniform. As an officer, you should know better. Make an intellectual argument. Quit using the the uniform as a prop in your drama parade. Sorry to go on that rant there. Again thank you for elevating the level of debate on this site with your post.
Michael @ LeonardMatlovich.com
@ Brutus & Gray:
Pull your heads out of Obama’s ass long enough to say what you REALLY mean:
LEAVE BRITNEY er BARACK ALONE!
[img]http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/images/gallery/chris-crocker-cries.jpg[/img]
ctownlee
@Gray: Thank God someone else sees this guy for the embarrassment he is. He is all about self promotion and is hurting the DADT movement. I hope he is getting another Article 15 for everytime he shows up to a political event in uniform. Should look good next to the one he got on active dute that no one wants to talk about… what was it for Dan? This guy is not who we want as a spokesman.
DR
I read the survey, and totally agree with Dan Choi and those who see this survey as utterly horrendous and embarrassing.
The entire survey is focusing on the bigotry of a select few and the ones who wrote it. It’s totally slanted. The entire thing is geared to get straight men to admit they suffer from homosexual panic in some shape, way, or form. The survey asks if he would live on base with if a gay guy and his partner got the house next door. The survey asks if he would attend social functions with any of his family members if an openly gay soldier was there with his partner. The survey is designed to elicit the worst repsonses, the most paranoid responses, from the men and women serving our country, and it’s not acceptable.
Dan’s right, no questions about the positive impact of troop cohesion coming from allowing soldiers to be who they are, encouraging people to be honest and how morale will be impacted positively by creating an environment where everyone is comfortable and allowed to be themselves.
Kary
Dan Choi is articulate, informed, relentless gay American hero. You detractors are ignorant pricks, and I suspicion none of you has served a fucking day. STFU.
Kary
Vietnam Vet
Bill Perdue
Don’t enlist.
Don’t fight.
Don’t translate.
ctownlee
@Kary: CPT FA 2 tours and still in. Dan Choi is a lot of things, hero isn’t one of them.
Brutus
@Kary: He’s relentless, that’s for sure. That’s not necessarily a good thing.
Love the “you can’t talk about this because you never served” attitude, by the way.
Pip
@Brutus: Actually, ‘relentless’ is the only way a protest works. Saying you disagree with something and then chillin’ out, won’t manifest in actual results. DADT isn’t going to be repealed just because Barack is a super special President. You have to keep hammering the message, and keep holding those who influence this policy’s feet to the fire.
Gray
@Kary: Actually, Kary I’m an officer serving aboard a current US warship. I think I am a little more qualified to speak in the topic than someone who served in a military wholly different from the one we have today. Sorry, but 98% of the men and women serving in my division we not even alive during the Vietnam war. The attitudes of today’s military are much more tolerant and diverse than the military you served in. I’m sorry if you disagree, but an officer chaining himself to the white house fence in uniform is a disgraceful act. Going around kissing other men in uniform is not the way to make the case we are trying to make. In case you didn’t know, that is not about kissing another man in uniform, it’s about the fact that that act is banned by all military members! Why does Dan Choi feel that he can violate military propriety and decorum standards that will still apply even when dadt is overturned? It simply hurts our argument that repealing dadt will have no effect on discipline when the public face of the movement is acting out in a manner such as this.
reason
@Gray: You stole the words out of my mouth. I also think Choi is a coward for abandoning his unit in Iraq to switch to the Guard in the middle of a war. Then he embarrasses and attempts to abandon the Guard unit. Way to turn his back on his comrades. Valor is not chaining oneself to the fence of there Commander and Chief like a sick prostitute. Choi wants to be a hero like those who were beat to an inch of their life or shot to death in Alabama 1965 or stormed Normandy 1944; sorry Dan but screaming like a wild man on PCP at rallies doesn’t cut it. Last I heard he is on some strange hunger strike, probable trying to prove to himself that he is tough after abandoning his unit on the battle field. If Choi wanted to win medals and notoriety he missed that chance,as a much need Arab linguist, when he hightailed it out of Iraq: I am certainly not going to laud this disgrace as a hero in the gay rights movement.
ctownlee
@reason: Once again thank god I’m not the only one on here bitching about this guy for a change. And from what I can see the criticism seems to be coming from guys who are actually currently in the military. Also this dude def has some skeletons in his closet, his leaving active duty may have been connected to DADT but not in the way he seems to be portraying it. He is lucky no one at personnel has leaked it yet, but I’m sure it will eventually. He wasn’t dumped by SLDN and Service members United just for the White House stunt. Holding this guy up as a hero is only going to come back to haunt us later. No one is perfect but there are a lot better options out there. Lieutenant Colonel Victor J. Fehrenbach , Maj Mike Almy among others.
Kary
Gentlemen: (1) Lt. Col Fehrenbach, terrific idea. Where the hell is he nowadays? Since the Rachel Maddow show? Silence. Mike Almy. Terrific idea. Where is he? Lt. Choi is out there….relentlessly.
Look what JUST occurred this morning: (from joemygod.com)
Rather than face the public scrutiny of the so-called repeal of DADT, today the government abruptly dismissed the charges against Lt. Dan Choi and Capt. James Pietrangelo moments before the trial was to get underway. Both men were charged with “failure to obey a lawful order” after handcuffing themselves to the White House fence earlier this year. Reportedly the arresting officers and Secret Service witnesses were in the courtroom ready to proceed when somebody, somewhere, intervened.
Joe Sudbay at AmericaBlog has this quote from Paul Yandura, who was in the courtroom: “It’s clear that they were embarrassed that we were going to expose the fiction that repeal is finished or imminent. They were embarrassed that we subpoenaed the President and were going to use his words. It’s clear that civil disobedience was the winner today.”
Now, “abandoning” or “deserting” his unit in Iraq is completely unsubstantiated in anything I can find.
I do not know what the current regs are on political association or protesting in uniform, but they are already throwing him out, and the uniform makes a political statement. Kissing a man in uniform upsets? Can we talk internalized homophobia? And yes, that is a political statement too.
I realize that Lt. Choi’s tactics and methods are not going to win over some people, and are going to alienate some people. Activism is not intended to appease.
Coming from the generation I do (I threw my medals over the fence in DC after returning from Vietnam), I think this generation of gay people is far too accepting and passive. Sometimes it is necessary to “burn shit down”.
I think Lt Choi is courageous. He knew he was going to get shit from all sides. And I whole-heartedly approve of his methods.
What have you done to help the cause? I live in Maryland, near DC, and I have protested my ass off several times down Pennsylvania Avenue and written my congressman and senators, recruited friends, straight and gay for marches and fundraisers, and donated time and money.
I’ve done a lot more than bitch on a blog about a guy working his ass off (misguided or not)for the cause. If you haven’t already, then get off your ass and find Fehrenbach or Almy and get them working.
Graveetas
The DOD’s budget for Fiscal year was $663.8 billion. Lt Choi, $5 million is a drop in the bucket for using taxpayers money. (Insert Sarcasm Here) http://comptroller.defense.gov/budget.html
jnklane
I know 1st hand some of these skeletons in Dan Choi’s closet because I actually served with him. His leaving active duty had nothing to do with being gay. The fact is he was fired as a Platoon Leader for imcompetence. He didn’t come out until after he was already in the NYARNG. Buy this time he was alreeady known as one of the worst officers in the battalion. This guy is using the using DADT as an excuse to cover his total failure as an officer. And by the way he was not discharged for being gay, he was discharged for gettin arrested and violating a direct order.
Kary
JNKLANE…something does not ring true here. Dan Choi is very smart and very articulate. He is a West Point graduate. You’re telling me he was “fired” as a platoon leader for incompetence? One would think anybody with a degree from West Point could lead a platoon… blindfolded, naked, backward, down the Matterhorn.