Look at Marcus Bachmann, Michele Bachmann’s husband. Anybody who has gaydar — anybody who has eyes — looks at him and sees a tormented closet case who has externalized his internal conflict and is abusing other people, doing his reparative-therapy bullshit. It’s so sad and pathetic. A lot of the self-destructive behaviors gay people are prone to drifting into are directed inward, and then you have these shitbags like Marcus Bachmann for whom it’s all directed outward. Marcus Bachmann is the photo negative of the guy on the last bar stool in the gay bar, drinking and smoking himself to death, except instead of destroying himself, he’s destroying other vulnerable queer people in an effort to destroy the queer inside himself.”
— Dan Savage taking aim at his usual targets in an interview with Playboy
Ladbrook
The entire Playboy interview is wonderful, but his take on Bachmann is spot-on, but we’ve known this for years. Bachmann’s demons probably explain why his wife gave up her safe congressional seat and left politics. She’s a laughing stock.
Interesting that Bachmann has never filed a libel suit against those who call him gay and/or a torturer of gay teens with his “reparative therapy” mumbo jumbo. I guess he’s fearful of what might come out during the discovery process.
Xzamilio
I swear I thought that was an old picture of Chaz Bono when he was Chastity. I’m not even joking.
Xzamilio
@Ladbrook: His demons? Oh, no… that crazy bitch was her own worst enemy. But yeah, I don’t know who Marcus Bachmann thinks he’s fooling… except himself. I wonder how many Polaroids he has in his closet shoebox? He doesn’t strike me as a guy who’d put things on a computer or phone
Ladbrook
@Xzamilio: Yes, by “demons” I was referring to his inner homosexual – the identity he hates and hides from everyone, including his silly, intellectually dishonest wife. To him, that is his “demon.” No doubt he has convinced himself that his sexual orientation was put there by Satan himself.
Lord, I really do hate the Bachmanns. More that anyone in the NOM/FRC crowd, they represent (to me) everything that is evil about that movement. It’s all about self-hatred, denial of reality, religious bigotry, and fear. I would bet my left nut that Marcus is impotent and that Michelle has a male lover on the side. That man hasn’t touched her in years.
Kieran
Why is it that when some gay people really, really, really hate somebody, they inevitably resort to accusing them of being gay themselves?
If you have a positive perception of yourself as gay, wouldn’t it be considered a compliment to suggest that someone else is gay himself. Instead, these kind of attacks invariably sounding homophobic themselves. “HA HA, Marcus Bachmann is a fat, ugly guy with a high, squeeky pitched voice—he’s obviously a closet case!”
Why can’t Marcus just being a fat ugly run of the mill straight guy with ignorant ideas about sexual orientation?
orcanyc
So true Dan. Thanks for a great article.
Ronbo
@Kieran: First off… when someone accuses you of being “abhorrent” and tries to publicly shame then change you for being who you are, the response isn’t “hate”. With me, it is disgust. You?
Second, the consensus of multiple studies is that those who are secure in THEIR sexuality are less prone to demonstrate homophobia. You see, THEY often believe THEIR homosexuality is wrong, so THEY believe all homosexuality is wrong. It’s more common sense than rocket science.
By all means, if you don’t wish to participate in homosexuality, don’t. But the hypocrisy is just too overwhelming and condescending to be ignored. Watching Marcus is like watching a cat trying to bark. He may want to be a dog and think he is a dog and he may pretend that he is a dog; but, only fools call him a dog.
Don’t be THAT fool, Kieran.
Xzamilio
@Kieran: It’s not like we’re just saying, “Hey, you’re a closet case because you’re vehemently anti-gay and have a reparative therapy clinic.” It’s “Hey… you sound like a serious closet case because of the things you’ve said in the past that indicate that you’re probably your biggest ‘success story’.” I mean there is Todd Christley effeminate (and I don’t think he’s gay at all) and then there’s this kind of dude who exudes everything he works against. It’s not responding using homosexuality as vitriol… it’s calling a spade a freaking spade. And I didn’t see anyone on here use any “Fat, ugly, squeaky voice” rhetoric except you.
Besides, I really, really, really, hate Phil Robertson and the Duggar patriarch and matriarch, but I don’t think any of them are gay… just backward ignoramuses.
onthemark
@Xzamilio: “It’s not like we’re just saying, “Hey, you’re a closet case because you’re vehemently anti-gay and have a reparative therapy clinic.””
Um… what exactly would be wrong with that? Fortunately there aren’t THAT many prominent, reparative therapy clinics… but I’m guessing that if one were run by some macho type, most of us would suspect he was a closet case.
@Kieran: But it’s not just gay people who say it about Bachmann – Bill Maher for instance (who’s pretty careful about such things) says it all the time.
Palto
Marcus Bachmann is publicly insinuating that being gay is one of the worst thing to be. That gay people need repairing. We’re responding by holding up a mirror to his ladybird’s face. He’s fair game after his destructive actions.
@ladbrook you hit the nail on the head with your original post.
Xzamilio
@onthemark: Whatever, dude… nitpick something else.
Matt
I just read the Playboy article and as usual Savage is making the usual stupid, vile statements for shock value. I feel nothing but pity for his son who was raised by a pervy dad. The Bachmann’s have class, something that Savage never had and never will.
Rob Moore
In a way, I wish Michelle Bachmann had remained in Congress. After all, her replacement is just as reactionary and vile as she is. I prefer to keep people like her and her sad spouse in plain sight. After she leaves Congress, I imagine she will fall out of public view, and worse, her husband and his reparative brainwashing will not get a lot of attention making him even more dangerous to teenagers whose parents force them into his clutches.
jwtraveler
@Kieran: Kieran, I agree with you 100% and have even said as much occasionally. To go a step further, if you believe someone is spewing anti-gay hate because he is a tortured closet case full of self-loathing, wouldn’t you want to show compassion and support for the individual to help him reach internal and external acceptance rather than adding more hatred?
jwtraveler
@Matt: What planet did you come from?
hyhybt
So where’s the shocking news?
Cam
@Kieran: said… “Why is it that when some gay people really, really, really hate somebody, they inevitably resort to accusing them of being gay themselves?”
_____________________
Sorry, but why is it that some people can’t recognize the fact that people who focus their entire lives on thinking about gays, yet claim to be straight obviously have something else going on. Additionally, have you ever seen Marcus Bachman talk or act or walk? He literally hits every single stereotypical behavioral quirk dead on.
And again, NO straight guy spends his entire life talking about and thinking about gays. That is left up to the Ted Haggards, George Reckers, and Marcus Bachman’s of the world.
Queertyreader2
Marcus Bachmann is totally out and proud…he is proudly married to his cross-dressing husband Michelle. Certainly a man in drag!
Trippy
If Marcus were just some miserably closeted suburbanite minding his own business while delivering the mail or doing taxes, I’d say leave him alone… but he’s not. He and his wife are vile homophobic culture warriors who openly hate the LGBT community. More importantly, The Lady Marcus makes his living trying to turn young gay men into self-hating piles of human misery. He deserves to be called out. Often and loudly.
Besides, Michele said in an interview that Marcus often picks out her clothes. Sorry, but that’s basically an admission that her husband was nothing more than a big ol’ queen.
I HATE outing people. But I make exceptions for closet cases who condemn the gay community. He’s getting what he deserves.
jkb
Marcus Bachmann is NOT gay! >:( Ahhhh who the fuck am I kidding?
jason smeds
Dan Savage has done a disservice to the homosexual community by doing an interview with Playboy. Playboy is homophobic. It promotes the idea that all women should be bisexual to please straight guys but that most men are straight, not bisexual. It’s a homophobic double standard.
Perhaps Dan has his only internal-hatred issues in my view.
jason smeds
Playboy is sexist and misogynistic. It sexually exploits women. Its theme is based on the idea that women should put out for men and that all women should try lesbianism to please a man.
Xzamilio
@jason smeds: In your view? You mean your view from under the bridge, you troll??
Cam
@jason smeds:
Oh Please, BJ, um, I mean Jason, nice try. But remember, using the word homosexual as if it’s distasteful is a giveaway. Loved how you tried to avoid the ACTUAL topic of discussion by trying to make it about Dan Savage rather than a dangerously unbalanced closet case like Marcus Bachman and the damage he does.
But that’s what BJ always does, tries to deflect away from the topic so he can protect whatever anti-gay bigot is being written about…oh I mean Jason.
Trippy
Behold, everyone! Please read the demented posting of jason smeds, also known as one of Marcus Bachmann’s counseling center’s major success stories.
Congrats Jason… you do Marcus proud every time you find a keyboard.
martinbakman
@Kieran: Why can’t Marcus just being a fat ugly run of the mill straight guy with ignorant ideas about sexual orientation?
So true. Just because a guy practically floats down the hall when he walks, rolls his eyes as he smirks, buys sunglasses for his lap dog, helps his foster daughters pick outfits, etc, etc, doesn’t mean he’s gay. But what we’ve learned time and time again is how often these right wing religious nuts spewing anti gay rhetoric end up being the ones caught with their pants down after dark, out on the edge of town, or caught at the bus station bathroom, or with a rentboy from Craigslist, or sending creepy texts to congressional pages. So we can’t be surprised how people make assumptions about Bachmann. But yeah, the world is tons of effeminate straight guys running around. True.
jason smeds
No self-respecting gay man would give an interview to Playboy. Playboy promotes the bisexual double standard. It’s porn which discriminates and then tries to promote itself as a healthy sexual publication.
Playboy pays women to disrobe and to claim to be bisexual. It’s pathetic. Dan Savage is just as pathetic.
Ladbrook
@jason smeds: Dan Savage’s “It Gets Better” campaign has, literally, saves hundreds of lives, maybe thousands. Pathetic is what you see when you look in the mirror. Don’t confuse the two.
Saint Law
@Matt: “The Bachman’s have class”
I am trying to envisage a bottom feeder low enough in the food chain that they would look up to the Bachman’s and I’m really really glad I can’t.
LadyL
@jwtraveler: Personally, I have a hard time working up much compassion or support or sympathy for someone who in his deluded self-rejection is doing so much damage to others. If Marcus Bachmann were merely a pathetic closet case and that was all, I could feel truly sorry for him in his predicament as a political spouse. But his reparative therapy business (for it is a business, whatever the hell else it is) is causing needless pain to the most vulnerable among us.
LadyL
@jason smeds: Since when have you given two shits about women?
JaredNorthcutt30
How many lives has Dan Savage’s It Gets Better campaign saved, really? Do we have actual statistical data?
JaredNorthcutt30
I like Dan Savage. I don’t like Dan Savage. He stirs up strange feelings in me…which is probably what he’s aiming for. I guess what irks me is that his “It Gets Better” project is from a privileged white male perspective. Like most white males, the GLBT movement stops at the G for Dan. I definitely appreciate his calling Christians on hypocrisy.
jason smeds
Dan Savage is self-serving in some respects. I would like to know how much he gets paid for his appearances and columns.
He has been good in some respects – I’m not denying that. But he also has poor judgment as reflected in his giving an interview to Playboy. Playboy is one of the most sexist, misogynistic and anti-male-homosexuality publications around.
Atomicrob
I have to agree with Savage’s diagnosis. Bachmann’s behavior is also an example of Freudian psychoanalytic projection . . . where someone establishes an internal defense against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others. Classic!
Blackceo
Ugh…I’d take 10 Marcus Bachmann’s over 1 Dan Savage.
unclemike
@JaredNorthcutt30: Even if it’s just one saved life, isn’t that enough?
aliengod
Marcus Bachmann and Dan Savage deserve each other. One is equally as pathetic as the other.
AtticusBennett
it’s not that gay men insist that all the “people we hate” are gay. it’s that all too often the most obsessively hateful anti-gay bigots have adopted that persona for a very specific reason: it’s the oldest “I ain’t Gay!” disguise there is.
“I’m so not gay, i HATE gay people!”
Marcus Bachmann….dozens of foster kids. ALL FEMALE. gee, wonder why?
there’s a reason we say “you’re a dangerous hateful closeted homosexual” – here’s why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTP3eUyOkoE
Alan down in Florida
@ Jason Smeds
Playboy is more exploitative of straight men than it is of women. The days of the sleazy side of mainstream “sex” magazines is long past. The women who pose for Playboy do it undrugged, of their own free will. Very often these women are highly educated and know the upsides and downsides of posing. It is a fun way to promote yourself, show off your self-confidence and self-esteem, increase your standing in the dating pool, make some easy money and the opportunity of entrance into a glamorous lifestyle that would otherwise be impossible to access.
Playboy is exploiting the straight men who easily respond to visual sexual stimuli, who can’t connect physically with women that high on the attractiveness food chain for whatever reason. These men buy/subscribe/borrow the magazine and hopefully (for that is the business model in play) go out and buy Playboy’s advertised products which sell the message that if you use these products or drive these cars or go to these places you can create a new self that will fit in with the in-crowd in which the Playboy models supposedly inhabit. Which in 99.9999% of cases is a pipe dream.
It’s no more exploitative than Queerty is to gay men every time it posts an Andrew Christian promo video or an Underwear Expert story or a Morning Goods spread. Even though I know that wearing the advertised underwear won’t make me sexier (none of them come in sizes large enough for me) they won’t make my penis any large either. But that doesn’t mean I don’t fall for the clickbait.
So don’t think that Playboy is any more exploitative than any other media outlet that has to sell advertising to remain operational.
Cam
@jason smeds: said….. “No self-respecting gay man would give an interview to Playboy. Playboy promotes the bisexual double standard. It’s porn which discriminates and then tries to promote itself as a healthy sexual publication.
Playboy pays women to disrobe and to claim to be bisexual. It’s pathetic. Dan Savage is just as pathetic.””
______________________-
And again, just notice the sheer desperation that Jason (BJ/Marion Page) has to ALWAYS change the subject when the post is about a right wing anti-gay bigot.
He will do ANYTHING to try to change the topic, which is, that Marchus Bachman, most likely a closet case, has taken federal money to perform dangerous and unsanctioned ex-gay type therapy on confused and scared gays.
BJ, sorry…Jason, NEVER wants to allow the discussion to every be about just how dangerous and bigoted the right wing is, so he will always do anything possible to change the topic, in this case, his ludicrous attempt to rant and rave about a magzine.
NoCagada
@Matt: When did being hypocrites become equal to having class?
How long do cry after masturbating thinking about men???
sfhally
@Matt: And yet you read the whole thing knowing you wouldn’t agree or like it.
sfhally
@JaredNorthcutt30: Seriously, haven’t you haters moved past that by now. As it has been pointed out elsewhere there is nothing stopping anyone from creating a video if they think their particular special snowflake identity is not being represented. That whole white male privilege thing is just an attempt to create dissension and make losers feel better about themselves.
sfhally
@Blackceo: You know that if it came to that you’d back down and go for one Dan
AtticusBennett
@JaredNorthcutt30: many, i know many kids who it saved. did you make a video?
it’s so easy. i made a few. if you think there’s a message that kids need, put yourself on video and share it. if you won’t, then accept that the real problem is guys like you who complain while never proactively doing anything.
inbama
@jason smeds:
“Dan Savage is self-serving in some respects. I would like to know how much he gets paid for his appearances and columns.”
Unless there’s a market for jealousy-laden drivel, more than you ever will.
dommyluc
Sue Dan Savage for libel, Marcus, you big, str8, he-man, hunka-hunka-burnin’-love, you!
jason smeds
inbama,
Is Dan Savage doing what he’s doing because of his concern for gay rights or his love of money? This is the question that surrounds anybody who makes a business out of a social issue.
I’m not saying that Dan Savage has not been good for the gay community in some ways. I have followed him over a number of years and he is very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of the anti-gay crowd.
However, now it’s time to point the finger at Dan. By giving an interview to Playboy, he is being hypocritical himself. Playboy is sexist and misogynistic, and has a bisexual double standard. The bisexual double standard discriminates against male homosexuality.
Tacky, Dan, tacky.
JaredNorthcutt30
@AtticusBennett: I’m not making an It Gets Better video. I’m not lying to children.
JaredNorthcutt30
@sfhally
“It’s just a PR campaign, nothing more. Telling kids to put up with bullying until they leave school is not constructive advice. It’s cruel. School boards, school administrators, teachers, etc., need to have zero tolerance policy for bullying. It’s not uncommon for teachers to bully unpopular kids themselves. That’s where the changes need to be made. But that requires action, and it requires standing up to conservatives who fight anti-bullying campaigns tooth and nail (often claiming that bullying gay people is a christian right). The reason “It Gets Better” caught on with politicians and celebrities is because it’s great PR and it requires absolutely NOTHING from them in the way of real action.
It’s cruelty to tell a kid to tolerate bullying. And to whom is this campaign even directed? The fat gay kids that Savage makes fun of himself? It’s a campaign aimed at good looking white boys with great bodies and upper middle class families. Yes, THEY will do better once they start hitting the gay bars. But for most average looking kids from working class families, they will find a gay community that’s often very much like High School, with cliques and teasing and rejection. Gay kids need to get support from society, and the kids that need that most are the kids that Savage himself would mock and demonize; kids of color, working class and poor kids, fat kids, kids with acne, and kids who are otherwise marginalized in society AND in our community.
Even when you look at the videos on YouTube, you see politicians who’ve come out against marriage equality, sports teams that would never accept a gay person in their ranks, and celebrities who just want some good press. The gay kids who participate are often great looking white boys, who you know will be accepted in the gay community, and are already leading charmed lives. It’s a campaign for the people Savage likes…sexy white male teenagers with athletic bodies who will be greeted with open arms.
I’ll take the campaign seriously when Savage speaks out on behalf of marginalized gay kids, and criticizes the gay community for its racism.
Cam
@JaredNorthcutt30: said.. “It’s just a PR campaign, nothing more. Telling kids to put up with bullying until they leave school is not constructive advice. It’s cruel. School boards, school administrators, teachers, etc., need to have zero tolerance policy for bullying.”
______________________-
That isn’t the point of the campaign, the point is, that no matter WHAT is going on it will get better out of school. It isn’t saying, don’t fight back, don’t sue, don’t get people fired.
Cam
@jason smeds:
And once again, Jsaon (BJ, Marion Page) can’t bring himself/Themselves to every talk about the actual topic of the post when it has to do with a right wing anti-gay bigot.
Stefano
@JaredNorthcutt30: you are right about the racism and intolerance in the ‘gay community’.
Stefano
@Cam: Jason smeds (BJ/MascPride/marion) is turning to a real obsession…it is ridiculous. You need help.
Cam
@Stefano:
Just so I understand this, the problem isn’t trolls coming in and lying or deflecting away from pro-gay topics, or defending anti-gay bigots. The problem is people pointing it out.
Please point out one single time I have written a post about them that wasn’t in response to a post where they have tried to do this.
But of course, it is interesting that you would be so eager to defend somebody attacking the out gay advocate and shielding the anti-gay bigot Marcus Bachman, whose wife ran on anti-gay politics and who have taken govt. money to perform damaging unsanctioned “Therepy” on unsuspecting LGBT’s.
Yes, I can see why you would want to help Jason/BJ/Marion cover that up.
AtticusBennett
@JaredNorthcutt30: then you’re a useless complainer.
all you need to do to spread a specific message that you feel would best benefit LGBT youth is TO ACTUALLY MAKE A VIDEO THAT SPREADS THAT MESSAGE.
the problem is not Savage, or the it gets better campaign, but people like you who complain about it, then do nothing of visibility to help out.
your entire “argument” is false. don’t make a message that says “put up with bullying”. i didn’t. my sisters didn’t. my parents didn’t.
we all made videos that spotlighted actual WAYS to make life better, and not just videos for LGBT kids. my family made videos for straight people to see, as well, to highlight for them how THEY can help others.
PR campaign? is that what a coward says as an excuse to not be visible and join in? sure sounds like it.
your post was pathetic. truly. why don’t YOU make a video highlighting racism? i’ve made dozens. i’ve blogged about it. my point – i’ve actually done what you complain about people not doing, and you haven’t
suck it up and stop being so useless and wimpy.
AtticusBennett
@JaredNorthcutt30: make your own video. every time you give an excuse not to you just prove that the problem is not savage, or “pretty white boys”, but boys like you who do nothing at all.
JaredNorthcutt30
@AtticusBennett: so you want to get into a YouTube video posting who has the biggest dick contest, I take it? Typical.
JaredNorthcutt30
@AtticusBennett: and since you seem to have all the answers, how many videos have i made about gay racism, oh great one?
AtticusBennett
@JaredNorthcutt30: i have no idea. how about your provide the URL so i can see?
it’s not a dick-swinging contest. you made a complain that the videos don’t help …what? unattractive gays? marginalized gays?
so, put your money where you mouth is and make one yourself. so far, you’ve complained that people haven’t done something, then you yourself gave excuses to NOT DO THE SAME THING YOU WANT OTHERS TO DO.
so, show me the videos you’ve made about gay racism.
here, you can see one of my (many) blogs about it: http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2011/11/oh-abercrombie-fitch.html
and another
http://littlekiwilovesbauhaus.blogspot.ca/2013/04/no-racism-is-not-dead.html
now, show me what you’ve done.
Ladbrook
@AtticusBennett: Meant to point this out a few days ago, but I greatly admire your blog. Great work, keep it up!
Matt
@sfhally: That’s entertainment!
MisterDemand
Aren’t we just a bad as homophobes for assuming just because Mr. Bachmann looks and sounds ‘feminine’ that he’s gay? Yes, it would be poetic justice, and a classic example of the closted-homophobe, but dont we hate when people do that type of stereotyping to us??
Unless we catch Mr. Bachman playing footsie in a public toilet or having an escort carry his bags, we should stay away from the harmful gay-accusing.
Cam
@MisterDemand: said… “Aren’t we just a bad as homophobes for assuming just because Mr. Bachmann looks and sounds ‘feminine’ that he’s gay?”
___________________________
I just LOVE this type of false moral equivalency. Lets take a close look at your B.S. rationalization shall we?
Are we, just as bad. So in other words, is the result of what we are doing, just as bad as the result of what they are doing.
Let’s see. They want to strip away civil rights, they want to make it illegal to pass anti-bullying laws that include sexual orientation (Yes, you heard right, they want to make it not illegal to bully and attack a kid if they are gay).
They want to make gay adoption illegal leaving those kids in legal limbo and thousands of others who would have been adopted without caring loving parents.
They want to make or keep it legal to fire LGBT’s preventing us from being able to work and survive. They have tried more than once to outlaw contracts between same sex couples that would in any way do what marriage would (property, wills, joint homeownership).
And of course they want to strip sexual orientation out of hate crimes legislation.
Now look at what “We” did.
We said, Marcus Bachman may be gay.
Oh MY! I CERTAINLY can see why you are gasping in outrage!!!! You’re right!!!!! Those two groupings are JUST AS BAD as each other aren’t they?
Oh and by the way troll, it is only anti-gay bigots that thing being identified as gay is somehow the biggest insult in the world. So thanks for giving yourself away.
AtticusBennett
@Ladbrook: thanks brother!
MisterDemand
@Cam:
Thats not a false equivalency at all. Railing against the Bachmaanns is a noble cause and while the results you mention may be different, the method is the same and wrong no matter who does it. Even if its used for ‘good’, playing up gay stereotypes to accuse someone of being gay is childish, offensive, and wrong. The ends don’t justify the means, simple as that.
Surely we have more effective strategies of advocating for our rights than resorting to playground “you’re gay!” accusations.
Maybe when you stop yelling through your keyboard you’ll see how foolish your rationale is.
Ladbrook
@Cam: Great response!
Cam
@MisterDemand:
You realize that just because you say something is true doesn’t make it true right?
You trying to stick with your ridiculous equivilancy of people being “Just as bad”. for asking whether Marcus Bachman is gay compared to Bachman using unsanctioned therapies termed “Dangerous” by the APA is as dangerous and as ridiculous as somebody saying.
Well gee, isn’t a woman saying that that man who stalked her around the block, cornered her in an alley and chased her down acted like a rapist just as bad as a man who is a rapist?
I’m sorry but your dangerous equivalencies are not the same.
And you still have not explained why it is so horrifying to you that somebody may be declared to be gay.
In a world where LGBT’s were not always welcomed, or legal, isn’t it funny how we kept finding, recognizing and meeting each other? So please don’t tell me that people cannot spot somebody with a decent chance of being gay.
But again, you keep saying that us pointing out the obvious nature of Bachman is somehow so horrifying as to be equivalent to advocating for death to gays in Uganda, but you can’t seem to explain exactly why that is so bad.
Of course an anti-gay bigoted troll would think it was horrible to be called gay, but since you are using the word “we”, therefore trying to state that you are a member of the community, perhaps you would like to stop attacking LGBT’s and the community and defending Bachman for a second and enlighten us on just why that is so horrible.
J.T.
@Xzamilio: I think Chastity was a little more butch than that.
Ladbrook
@MisterDemand: What Bachmann’s clinic (and others like them) is doing to young gays and lesbians is a type of psychological torture – or, if you like – psychological molestation. He and his ilk are teaching vulnerable young people that they are diseased and that they should hate themselves. This is what they do behind closed doors. In some cases, the torture goes beyond psychological to physical abuse. In public, they demonize us, campaign to strip us of everything but our actual citizenship. If we call him out as someone who appears to be very much a homosexual himself, even if on the outside chance we happen to be wrong, then so be it. They are literally trying to rid the country of us. They declared war; we didn’t. So kudos for Savage for speaking up. I wish more people in the MSM did the same.
MisterDemand
@Ladbrook:
How does that address my point at all? When did i defend Bachmann or anything they stand for? I find it abhorrent. I merely mentioned that stereotyping Mr. Bachman with offensive gay tropes is offensive and not the proper strategy to take him down. Surely we can craft a better counter-message than a baseless “your’re gay” accusation thats gleaned from using awful gay stereotypes
MisterDemand
@Cam:
So calling people gay because they ‘look it’ or ‘sound like it’ is ok? How does that gel with all those anti-bullying school programs or what we tell or parents or family about stereotyping gay people? Your goal is noble but your tactics are flawed, offensive, and counter-productive. Be mature and craft an actual counter-message built on tolerance, acceptance, and facts. Not offensive stereotyping.
Cam
@MisterDemand:
You still having told us why you seem to think it is the worst thing in the entire world that somebody could be called gay. It sounds like you have some internalized issues. The fact that again, you are trying now to compare Marcus Bachman being suggested as gay by gay people (Who can recognize such things) is somehow on a par with children driving to suicide or beaten and hospitalized by bullies.
Again, first you compared suggesting he is gay with anti-gay bigots stripping civil rights or pushing anti-gay death bills in Uganda, and now you are suggesting that calling Bachman gay is somehow the same as bullying kids.
The thing you seem desperate to not deal with is, why is it that a huge number of anti-gay bigots running these organizations have ALL turned out to be closeted. George Reckers, Ted Haggard, multiple anti-gay politicians. Additionally you seem determined to deny that gay people have experiences that would not make it impossible that they could identify other gay people.
Your associating anybody calling Bachman gay with people advocating murder in Uganda, denying marriage here, or bullying and injuring kids is an extremely dangerous and misguided mindset.
AtticusBennett
@MisterDemand: it’s not foolish. and it has NOTHING to do with “gay stereotypes” – at all.
we don’t think he’s gay because of “stereotypes”, but because savvy Family can spot family.
this, of course, may be a shock to some of you guys who think “people can’t tell” – but you’re wrong. gays who know gays can spot family. and it has nothing at all to do with stereotypes. just seeing people clearly.
AtticusBennett
@Cam: i have a feeling “misterondemand” is one of those queens who mistakenly believes that people think he’s straight 😉
MisterDemand
@Cam:
So its ok when gay people do it….ugh as a black gay guy, I hate this line of reasoning.
No one should use the N word, no one should baselessly call someone gay, no matter who it is. While I get the argument for doing such things if u are a member of the group, I simply think that sends the wrong message, because one should practice what they preach; not doing so is the very definition of ‘hypocrisy’
MisterDemand
@AtticusBennett:
Maybe so, but its hard to preach against straight people doing that, when we are ourselves do it. I think making assumptions of someones sexuality based of appearance is exactly what homophobes do- calling guys fags for wearing pink, or being a cheerleader, its what A Million Moms gets mad about every week. But thanks for calling me a ‘queen’ in the pejorative sense. Thats helpful
Ladbrook
@MisterDemand: Perhaps, but I would also argue that those alternative strategies are already in place (campaigns against his type of therapy, for instance). I simply don’t buy into the idea that calling out someone’s hypocrisy is a weak argument. Would you have felt that way if a Jewish man was hiding his Jewish heritage while serving in Hitler’s SS, or a multiracial man if he had been able to “pass” in the 1850’s south while also defending slavery? Yes, I realize these are extreme examples, but to me the principle is the same.
AtticusBennett
@MisterDemand: it’s not about appearance. it’s about how those of us who’ve actually been Out for years (unlike you) can identify family. nothing to do with dress, or manner, or “stereotypes” – everyhging to do with recognition. we see each other. we identify each other.
bachmann is doing what far too many closeted cowards do – adopting the “I’m not gay, i don’t like gays!” disguise. we’re (all) calling him out.
i’m a proud queen. you’re a self-hating one. there’s a difference.
you’ve utterly missed the point. maybe if you actually come out one day, and spend some time interacting with more LGBT people and doing actual activism and advocacy you’ll finally get it. until then, time for you to read more and write less.
nobody here is falling bachann a fag for “wearing pink” – we’re calling him a pathetic, sad, cowardly self-hating homosexual closet case who’s adopted an “i hate gays” disguise in the failed hopes that nobody will catch on. and those of us who don’t have our heads up our asses caught on long ago.
so stop freaking out about “stereotypes” – we get it, you live your life fearing stereotypes because they’ve been used against you by anti-gay people in your own life. the rest of us don’t. we see types. archetypes. prototypes. and we see a closeted homosexual coward attacking others to save his own ass.
Cam
@MisterDemand: said “So its ok when gay people do it….ugh as a black gay guy, I hate this line of reasoning.
No one should use the N word, no one should baselessly call someone gay, no matter who it is.”
_________________________
And there it is. You think that somebody being pointed out as gay is somehow the same as somebody being called the “N Word”.
You have some massive self loathing issues since one is the identification of somebody who is something and the other is a slur.
Must explain why you somehow think that calling somebody gay is according to you just as bad as the torture, attacks, murder, and the stripping away of people’s rights that people like Bachman advocate.
Until you don’t hate yourself for what you are this discussion is a few years ahead of you.
According to you Bachman is a poor victim who can attack gays, psychologically torture them, and support policies that lead to the death of gays. But that’s ok, because somebody called him gay once and THAT is just as bad.
Cam
@AtticusBennett: So true!
jason smeds
I would never take advice from Dan Savage. He has this smug look about him which I find disconcerting.
Cam
@jason smeds:
And once again BJ/Jason does whatever he/they can to not talk about the actual right wing anti-gay bigot that this post is about. He always seems to have plenty to attack out gays with, but will never attack the actual anti-gay bigots harming the community.
Thanks for being so consistent.
tricky ricky
@Kieran: marcus bachmann is most definitely a closet case. he needs to be reviled and ridiculed because of his vile ex gay therapy practices. he claims to be a therapist and yet he uses religious bullsh*t to “cure” gay people of being gay. and if you don’t believe he’s gay just google for the picture of him deep throating that foot long corn dog at the state fair.