Who’s your BFF ever? President Obama! How do you know? Because he said so himself! Asked about whether GLBTs “who wish to marry” should consider the White House an ally, Barack Obama (who’s whooping it up celebrating gay pride!) insists: “I think gays and lesbians have a friend in the White House because I’ve consistently committed myself to civil unions, making sure that they have to visit each other in hospitals, that they are able to access benefits, that they have a whole host of legal rights that they currently do not have. I don’t think it makes sense for the federal government to get in the business of determining what marriage is. That isn’t traditionally the federal government’s role.”
Indeed, President Obama believes friends let friends have separate but equal rights.
You probably want to go grab a beer with him now, right? It would give him another excuse to hold out on doing anything substantial on repealing the Defense of Marriage Act.
And he’s right about that whole “federal government” thing. You see, traditionally presidents are too cowardly to push for equal rights, and instead let the Supreme Court do it.
So when it comes to this “friendship” Obama thinks he has with America’s gay community? It’s of the sort where you run into a guy at a party, promise to get together for lunch next week, and never see each other except on Facebook.
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
InExile
Wow if he really is for civil unions, why has he not asked congress to get the legislation moving? Just a few words like let’s move on this?
I do not need the right to visit my partner in the hospital, I already have it in FRANCE! Repealing DOMA would make it possible for my partner and I to move back home to the US. Then I guess I would welcome the hospital rights!!!
His words seem empty, without real purpose or conviction. He seems like his heart is not in his words. No feeling, no energy, no motivation to move his promises forward, just words to keep us all quiet. Two years ago this is what I feared would happen if he was elected. Words, words, words, and no action. I really hope I am wrong but it does not look like it!
mike
we’ve been played…………..and it hurts
Fitz
I am in my 40’s, and I have learned not to be friends with people who only want to be my friend in private. My real friends are happy to be seen with me, and we enjoy each other fully.
sioraiocht
> I don’t think it makes sense for the federal government to get in the business of
> determining what marriage is. That isn’t traditionally the federal government’s role.”
Really? That’s exactly what DOMA does, so you might as well get on with repealing it, asshat.
@InExile: I too, enjoy my rights in Europe (I live in Britain, right now), and unless the US can get its act together, I will not be re-patriating anytime soon…
John Santos
This douchebag in in Egypt today kissing anti-gay, anti-American Muslim ass, while ignoring his own American voters. He didn’t even acknowledge the protesters in Cali, except to make a them the butt of his joke.
Dabq
With single issue “friends” like the ones here, why would anyone sane want to deal with them? The posters on this site has had people call for him to be harmed, although some will pretend they never saw those posts that were never taken down, called him vile racial slurs and any time he is the face of a thread, which is 4 or 5 times a day, the hate spews freely, he would be wise to deal with the rational gays , not the hate filled ones here, who are worst that the most vicious homophobic thug in the streets.
And, the biggest joke of all is this “we” voted for him, yeah right, the posters here are as right wing as they come except for their “issues,” and my favorite “I donated so much money,” yep to HRC or McCain.
InExile
@sioraiocht: Sorry to hear you are in the same situation! I keep hoping things will “change” but thus far it seems the “change” is for others not us. It amazes me how people continue to defend his inaction even after watching a video like the one above that boldly shows he has no sense of urgency to do anything for us. The sad part is all he has to do is give congress a little push but it seems he is not interested. Rick Warren might not approve!
timncguy
Obama did not campaign on becoming our “friend” in the White House.
What he did do was PROMISE to be our “Fierce Advocate” and to use the “Bully Pulpit” of the presidency to advance LGBT equality.
timncguy
@Dabq: It’s not difficult to understand the anger towards Obama. He campaigned for our votes with specific promises to us.
After he took office, these are the first actions he took as our “fierce advocate”
To show his continued support for his campaign promises, he mModified the White House web page to water down the language of his agenda for LGBT equality.
To show his support for our victory in Iowa, he turned that victory into the butt of a joke at the annual White House Correspondants dinner.
To show his concern over Prop 8 in CA, he turned the protests outside his CA fund raiser into the butt of another joke on the day that the supreme court decision was announced.
So, his first actions toward the LGBT community were to belittle us.
And, you think this shouldn’t upset us?
Let me remind you that when Obama appeared on the Tonight Show with Leno and inadvertantly made a joking comment about the Special Olympics, he was FORCED to apologize the following morning for damage control.
When he has INTENTIONALLY made jokes about LGBT issues, where are the apologies? Non existant.
Now, I understand that Special Olympics is all about kids and helping them achieve and build their self esteem. But, lets not forget that there are many young people in the LGBT community. And the teens have a suicide rate much higher than the average.
When the president intentionally chooses to joke about the LGBT community it sends a message to the rest of the country that respect for LGBT citizens is not required and that belittling the community is fully accepted.
Peter Eater
Serving up more of his creamy nothingness.
[img]http://media-files.gather.com/images/d188/d195/d745/d224/d96/f3/full.jpg[/img]
Robert, NYC
So there we have it again. He’s for legal segregation. He must obviously disagree with the Warren court decision giving blacks their full civil rights in 1964 which ruled that separate is not equal. He’s NO friend or ally of the LGBT voting bloc. If he were, he could have put a stop to Lt. Fehrenbach from being discharged from the military as a gesture of good will, but he didn’t. In short, we’ll get zilch from this god-is-in-the-mix bullshiter. We were truly duped. NEVER AGAIN! Believe me, if it weren’t for the economic crisis, we’d still be in the same position and so would he.
MTiffany
Must be nice for a black guy to finally be able to endorse ‘separate but equal’ now that it no longer applies to him.
Bill Perdue
Top Eight whines by apopogists for Obama’s hostility to our agenda:
I. He’s a savior and you’re crucifying him. Poor, poor Obama.
II. Give him a few years. Seven years. Then we’ll see. Maybe.
III. Let’s not push him into a corner and make him choose between us and the bigots. We know how that’ll go.
IV. Bus? What Bus? I didn’t see any bus.
V. We’re being tested to see if we’re worthy.
VI. I can read Obama’s mind and I know, deep in my heart, that he loves us.
VII. This is all a Republican plot to embarrass the best little President in the whole wide world.
VIII. He’s busy turning the recession into a depression and committing mass murder from Palestine to Pakistan to be bothered by such un-American things as equality and human rights.
DABQ fits most of them. He’s an accomplished whiner.
Paul
What a douchbag. I feel like I have been sucker punched.
As for No. 6 · Dabq:
Rational glbtq posters here who call out obama on his silence and inaction on all things glbtq ARE RATIONAL.
It is polyanna apoligists like you who are in a dreamland, forever making excuses for Obama where there are clearly none. As far as calling us haters, no, we just want equal civil rights asshole.
When the rightwing runs out of legitimate reasons to deny a whole class of people their civil rights, which has been since day one, they resort to cheap shots like the one you use, and call us haters.
Memo to you dickwad, we don’t hate the guy, we just hate it when we have been used and abused, lied to, and made the object of Obama’s crappy jokes.
We are legitimately calling out Obama for not fullfilling his campaign promises to the GLBTQ community. We voted for him, gave him our hard earned cash and time and this is how we are being paid back. It is called betrayal.
You are just like a codependent abused spouse, who after being beat up by their ‘loved one’ for the upteenth time, tell astonished friends and relatives that “oh, he really is a good man, he did not mean it, he promised he will change, he really does love me and he really does love me and promised me he would never hit me again.
Get some therapy and a spine!
Cam
We don’t need friends, we need people that keep their promises.
Paul
@Cam: AMEN
M. Bergeron
I’ll take civil unions when you do, Mr. President. And traditionally, it has been the fed’s role to make sure that the states aren’t violating the fed constitutional rights of US citizens.
M Shane
The notion that because someone(anyone) does’nt support gay marriages, they are ‘not our friends ‘ is the most ignorant slander around. Separate but equal has nothing to do with the gay partnership issue which is equal but equal.
When will gay people respect themselves enough to ask for their own kind of partnership rights. Building new closets is not in the course of gay liberation. For those who want to pretend to be housewives, you may as well get sex changes two and you will really fit in.
I have struggled too hard to find a distinct identity to cop out and not have a type of partnership consistent with being a different type of human being, and proud of it..
Jay759
I am so tired of the gays bashing President Obama for not being a “friend” the GLBT community. I say get over it. As a gay male (who happens to live in NYC) there are so many other important issues that need to be addressed. And let’s face it Prop 8 failed because it was poorly organized and ran. Obama said during the election that he did not support gay marraige but civil unions. I truly believe that many gays don’t want to get married. They can’t seem to keep it in their pants long enough to stay committed.
Jamie
What an excuse:
I don’t think it makes sense for the federal government to get in the business of determining what marriage is. That isn’t traditionally the federal government’s role.
Huh. And here I thought DOMA was a federal thing, as were the Federal Tax exemptions based on marriage. Must be my bad, not his!
*rolls eyes*
Alex
@Bill Perdue:
Oh shit! Bill Perdue learned how to use HTML tags. Obama must be pissing himself right now.
timncguy
@M Shane: and, when will you RESPECT others enough to allow them to ask for marriage equality if that is what they want? Civil Marriage is a contract with both rights and responsibilities. Any couple, gay or straight, that chooses to marry has as many options as they themselves can think of for how they choose to structure the inner workings of their own relationship. There is not one hetero formula for a marital relationship. And, there would be no one formula for a same-sex marital relationship. If you were to marry, there is no law that would force you or your partner to behave like a housewife. WTF are you talking about?
M. Bergeron
M Shane:
Gay lib was the 70’s, we’ve been liberated. We aren’t fighting to be liberated now, we’re fighting to be fully assimilated into American life. That’s why we want marriage rights, just like everyone else.
Robert, NYC
@Jay759:
Jay, we are fully aware of Obama’s stand on civil unions as well as Clinton’s. Since you think many gays don’t want marriage, why should they be banned from it? Some people want civil unions that are not marriage, not even by another name. The choice should be available for all, both straight and gay.
If Obama thinks civil unions at the federal level are so equal, and you won’t see those happening before 2012, then why doesn’t he support straights having them who don’t want to get married? Somebody needs to ask him that question.
If Governor Lynch of New Hampshire, a democrat but one who doesn’t believe in same-sex marriage can sign legislation to allow us to marry, an example of a decent politician who can separate his religious beliefs from the issue at hand, then there is absolutely no reason why Obama and every other democrat and republican who oppose SSM can’t do the same. Even fascist Cheney is on board, putting Obama to shame. I’d respect him more if he had the courage and common decency of Governor Lynch, but he doesn’t. We’re not that important to him, but only if it helps him get elected.
Another thing, we’re not all promiscuous and many of us can sustain relationships longer than some straight married couples. Are you aware that adultery is one of the reasons why the straight divorce rate is so high? Purportedly, 50% of them are failing. Promiscuity is gender and orientation neutral. You do our cause a lot of harm with that attitude and you play right into the hands of the right wing christo fascist demagogues. Is that what you want? Maybe you should consider joining the Log Cabiners. In the absence of the more important matters you speak of, do you really think we’d be in a different position than we now are? I don’t. We’d still be bottom priority, that will never change because we are the last group that they can hate and get away with it by denying us our full equality, Obama included. He’s learned NOTHING from the civil rights movement, absolutely nothing.
M. Bergeron
“They can’t seem to keep it in their pants long enough to stay committed.”
Hmm, Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani, Rush Limbaugh… these douchebags also seem to have this problem, and yet the state has issue multiple marriage licenses to each of them.
Robert, NYC
@M. Bergeron:
Exactly my point. Maybe they too should be banned from marriage to even the field.
edgyguy1426
@Dabq: But this is a single issue website, what do you expect?
edgyguy1426
@Jay759: But Obama was FOR gay marriage before he was AGAINST it…he changed his position for political gain…we can wait till he leaves the White House and have a Cheneyesque epiphany or Clintonesque “my opinions are evolving…” stance, (my praphrase) but it doesn’t do any good to get on the bandwagon when it won’t do us any good.
Landon Bryce
@Jay759:
Jay, you make the point that only gays who really hate themseelves are defending Obama at this point. Gay people are severely deformed by the abuse we get from society. Most gay people, like you despise themselves because you we have been taught that we are stupid, selfish, promiscuous– worthless.
Like the president, you do not think gays are worthy of truly significant positions at the White House– we can’t keep it our pants long enough. You like Obama because he reflects your own self-loathing.
Read the Obama supportive messages: they always call gay people “queens” and “fags,” They are obsessed with “panties.” They are full of hate speech, because the people who write them hate us.
schlukitz
@Jay759:
“As a gay male (who happens to live in NYC) there are so many other important issues that need to be addressed”
Obviously, English 101 was not one of your strong points. Where is this sentence going? As a gay male, what??? There are so many other important issues that need to be addressed is a self-standing sentence that has no connection to your being a gay male (who happens to live in NYC) Again, WFT This is important?
And repeating, what so many other self-loathing, self-effacing gay males have often stated on these threads that “There are so man other important issues that need to be addressed”, is the comment of an Obama apologist.
If you don’t want to get married, fine. As has already been pointed out by other posters, you are under no obligation to do so. Simply step aside and let those who do wish to get married do so.
If you cannot do that, then you will have no legitimate excuse to whine about the tire marks on your forehead.
ML
Obama’s a tool.
While I commend Brian Williams for asking the question at all it was a typical softball question with no follow up… Setting aside the marriage question, what exactly have you DONE to ensure these inequalities are addressed?
It was a puff piece filled with warm and fuzzies about Obama and his family. The dog got far more air time than gay issues.
Predictable crap that passes for journalism these days.
0r10n
President Obama is just another politician. His lies to the gay community are like the rest of the lies he told to get elected. I truly respect his brilliant mind. He is a gifted man especially taken in context. That said, he is a politician and by definition craves power and longs to extend his power. Gays that support him blindly are akin to Christians that blindly supported President Bush. I fear that the gay lobby will not hold his feet to the fire on our issues because they want a seat under the table hoping some crumbs fall. The Gay political movement has been castrated by HRC. A bunch of privileged fags throwing big parties and pretending to do something. Honestly, President Obama is not to blame entirely. We are to blame for our own inaction. If fags would go to state capitol buildings to lobby the politicians who actually control marriage laws instead of going to another HRC concert we would be a lot further along than we are. We will not get equal rights listening to speeches. No one else will give us equal rights. Until we are willing to take direct action to take our rights we will be under the table praying to President Obama for crumbs.
Lee
BARACK OBAMA TO ELLEN, October 2007:
“You know what I would do is IMMEDIATELY set up a civil union that is equal in federal rights so that all the states, all the rights that are conferred by the states are the same for gays and lesbians, same sex couples as for any other couple.”
We ain’t even getting Option B now.
But EVERYBODY DANCE! Barack has declared it Gay Pride Month!
[img]http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/ObamaEllen.jpg[/img]
DuttyBarb
You people baffle me. Here is a man that has done for gay rights than any other american prez has. Since he came in rule 6 states have made gay marriage legal…6 STATES!
You peeps are so ungrateful in the U.S. Do u think u deserve any rights under marriage at all? Really? U want to tell me that marriage which is the most sacred institution in the world is for people who according to the bible, Torah and Qu’ran are an abomination to the natural order. We might as well let a man marry its goat.
No really! Soon NAMBLA will be asking for rights to legalise themselves and watever disgusting acts they support.
But i digress. Take it or live it u pervs. Thank God u live in a country where u can even walk the streets as u are.
Trust me, thank God
edgyguy1426
I apologize for my post above No. 28. Re-reading it made me kick myself for not proof-reading it thru. (paying attention, Queerty? ) It should have read: we CAN’T wait till he leaves the White House to have a Cheneyesque epiphany…..
J.T.
CD
When Queerty made the mistake of calling the shantytowns created by the Bush recession, Obamavilles (after Hoovervilles) soon after he was elected, we knew where Queerty was heading. This site is just the Free Republic with a pink twist.
InExile
@DuttyBarb: He has done nothing for gay rights at all! The states that passed marriage passed these laws because of local grassroots organizations working on passing these rights for years. This President made promises to get elected and shows no signs of keeping those promises. Zero action thus far!
InExile
@DuttyBarb: Oh, and don’t call us pervs, speak for yourself you sicko!
edgyguy1426
@Lee: I”m curious: What was Ellen’s response to this federal civil union proposal? Maybe she was too star-struck to come back with an intelligent response.
Lee
@DuttyBarb:
First, you drooling willful cretin, the legalizatin of marriage in ALL of those states did not happen after he became President. In the case of Massachusetts, he wasn’t even a candidate yet [“officially” that is since he’s been running for Prez since college]. He was running for US Senate then.
And, even they had….HE had absolutely fucking nothing zip nada zero to do with it.
Air France plane crashes in Atlantic since his election…is he responsible for that, too?
What he IS responsible for is the discharge of over 200 gay servicemembers since being sworn in and vowing to defend DADT in court!
What he IS responsible for is sending out on Monday a limp dick gay pride proctomation claiming he was the first prez to appoint out gays in his first 100 days and someone from the White House having to call Roberta Achtenberg Tuesday morning, that “damn lesbian” Jesse Helms tried to keep from taking the job Clinton offered her in 1993, and “profusely apologize” for forgetting her.
And that AFTER they had bragged about her being one of The Gay Seven on Obama’s transition team last fall.
edgyguy1426
@DuttyBarb: well as Murphy Brown said once, ‘you’re not stupid, you’re just under-exposed to information’- so what about atheists? Do they have the right to get married? Or is it only the Muslims, Jews and Christians? I belong to none of the aforementioned groups by the way.
Jay759
Where were all the gays when Bush was in the White House? I will tell you- nowhere. Everyone wants to jump on the Obama bandwagon and chastise him for being “silent” on the issue. To Schlukitz- you are correct, my writing skills are not that perfect. However the timing of this fight is bad. People of all sexual orientations are losing their jobs, homes, health insurance, and most importantly their dignity during this recession. Also we have North Korea breathing down our necks and not to mention two wars going on. But you’re worried about SSM. Give me a break. If you think SSM will bring equality – then you are all delusional. Gays will never be equal to straights in certain arenas.
YOU CANNOT compare the Civil Rights movement to the rights of same sex couples wanting to get married. As a bi-racial male I cannot let that happen. White males have no idea the struggle my ancestors have been through. How many white gay males have been enslaved and forced to pick cotton or beaten? Zero.
Someone else noted that they cannot wait for Obama to leave the White House. We should be appreciative that we have someone who wants to turn this country around. If we had another 4 years of Bush we would be up the creek with out a paddle.
Gays put the country’s priorities first above your selfish and tired “I want to get married to my partner” crap.
I’m sure I’ll see someones boyfriend out this weekend trying to pick someone else up. Sad I tell you, Sad.
schlukitz
@InExile:
That post was so reprehensible and over the top that I felt it was my duty to flag it. It was even worst than the verbal abuse that yeson8won has laying on us for a couple of weeks now and it needs to stop.
I do not understand why we of the LGBT community must be subjected to these kinds of flagrant and overt anti-homosexual rants on a site that is supposed to be for and supportive of lgbt people.
These type of comments are not freedom of speech or an expression of one’s beliefs. They are direct attacks on a minority group that is having a hard enough time getting the protections and the rights that we so justly deserve.
If we of the LGBT community cannot meet in a blog that is a designated gay site to share and exchange those viewpoints that are of vital concern to us, in an atmosphere that is not charged with homophobia, bigotry, hatred and discrimination then, pray tell, where can we do so?
Jay759
“Gays will never be equal to straights in certain arenas.” I apologize for this sentence. I took it a little too far. Sorry!!
Fitz
A lot of my anger for Obama would sort of steam away if he even did what he said: equal rights as far as benefits and protections. I don’t have that much energy for the word ‘marriage’, though I am happy to go with you in support. What I care about is public benefits, real estate transfers (when you get older you will care about this too), immigration rights, protections against employment and housing discrimination, etc. I don’t need Betty and Bob from the Mormon church to recognize my relationship. I just need to know that my partner and I are treated equally. And right now– we aint got that.
schlukitz
@Jay759:
“YOU CANNOT compare the Civil Rights movement to the rights of same sex couples wanting to get married. As a bi-racial male I cannot let that happen. White males have no idea the struggle my ancestors have been through. How many white gay males have been enslaved and forced to pick cotton or beaten? Zero.”
Thank you for playing the race card. One more bi-racial who feels that we white mos are not deserving of our civil-rights.
If that is not a blatant example of reverse-discrimination and white homophobia, then I don’t know what is?
Oh…and as a bi-racial male who cannot let that happen, just how were you planning on stopping it?
John Santos
@Jay759:
White males have no idea the struggle my ancestors have been through.
And neither do you. All you know about it, is what you were taught about in school through history books–written by whites.
How many white gay males have been enslaved and forced to pick cotton or beaten?
And when was the last time you were enslaved and forced to pick cotton, Jay759?
As far a white gay males being beaten, that happens all the time. And not oddly enough, at the hands of black males.
Fitz
It’s absurd to try to make this a “Black Vs. Gay” thing. It’s an “Equitable Vs. Discriminatory” thing.
schlukitz
@Jay759:
“”Gays will never be equal to straights in certain arenas.”
You certainly did. I missed that beaut.
Jay759
@SCHLUKITZ
Thank you for playing the race card. One more bi-racial who feels that we white mos are not deserving of our civil-rights.
I hate to break it to you but white males rather straight or homo have never had there civil-rights taken away. And as far as white homephobia goes- again give me a break. Gay white males can have treated black gay males wrong for a long time. The only time white gay males love black men is when they can get some of that mandingo.
You are right, I cannot stop it but I can educate others.
Fitz
The nice thing about jay’s posts are that they are so over the top that you know exactly what his thought process is worth.
Wayne
@Jay759 “YOU CANNOT compare the Civil Rights movement to the rights of same sex couples wanting to get married”
Really? Seems you are the one who is ignorant of their own history. It was Coretta Scott King herself, as well as Bayard Rustin who made those EXACT comparisons. Coretta often spoke about gay rights being a natural continuation of her husbands dream of civil rights and equality for all.
M Shane
@M. Bergeron : maybe you havn’t been out of the house since Stonewall; Bigotry is alive and well all over the gay community, even It’s the assimilationist ninies who press forward homophobia. It’s typical of abuse victims to take on the character of the We grow up inculcated with straight christian ideals: get over it yourself ; unless you need a token of Mom and Dad to feel ok in the world, no doubt you don’t believe in extramarital sex either. @timncguy ; marriage is unethical for queers that is why we ned our own form of relatedness expressed in laws. Marriage is for prototypical breeders who have children; who screw presumably forthe Godly reason of reproducing:.
Gay people need to respect themselves and their differences. We will always be different. Can you imagine what suck ups we appear to be trying top be like the characters in propaganda we see daily.
It ‘s irrelivant but.If gay people have anything like the success rate that straight do with marriage , it’s not even that significant apart from giving gay lawyers jobs arranging divorces. The staights have a %60 divorce rate. Imagine the situation without kids.., we’ll luckily have a an %85 divorce rate..
Lee
@Jay759:
Thank you for the needless history lesson. It is not that we don’t care about what happened to your ANCESTORS or the ancestors of modern day Jews, Latinos, Asians, Armenians, ad infinitum, it’s that it is beside the point of the discussion.
Can American straight blacks marry whomever they wish today? Yes?
Can gays of whatever color? No.
If an American straight black marries someone foreign born does the latter automatically become an American citizen? Yes.
Gay question moot.
Can straight blacks serve in the American military? Yes?
Can gays of whatever color? No.
Can straight blacks be legally denied a job, promotion, housing, public accommodations, credit in 30 states? No.
Can gays of whatever color? Yes.
Can straight blacks be legally denied adopting a child based solely on their race? No.
Can gays of whatever color be legally denied adopting or even foster parenting a child solely for being gay? Yes.
In 1980, did Mel Boozer, president of the DC Gay Activists Alliance say to the Democratic National Convention:
“Would you ask me how I’d dare to compare the civil rights struggle with the struggle for lesbian and gay rights? I can compare, and I do compare them. I know what it means to be called a nigger. I know what it means to be called a faggot. And I can sum up the difference in one word: none.”?
Yes.
Over 20 years ago, did gay black civil rights icon Bayard Rustin, mentor to Martin Luther King, Jr., and organizer of the great 1963 March of Washington say to the Philadelphia chapter of Black & White Men Together:
“Today, the new ‘nigger’ is gays.”?
Yes.
Did the window of Martin Luther King, Jr., compare the black and gay civil rights movement?
Yes.
Did Julian Bond, chair of the NAACP, compare the black and gay civil rights movement, including this week testifying against the legal ban on the foreign-born partners of American gays becoming citizens?
Yes.
Tony
Being a friend of the gays but against full equality is like being a slave owner, who is really fond of his slaves, but seeing them as less than human.
Oh the irony. Barack O’Douchebag.
Fitz
Hey Editor: Freedom of speech is a great idea, but I am not going to bother coming here for the same bashing I get receive at Fox.
schlukitz
@Lee:
Excellent post, Lee.
Too bad that Jay759 never heard one word that was spoken by all the famous people you named.
Reading, hearing and comprehension skills are severely limited when one’s head is up one’s ass.
edgyguy1426
@Jay759: unless of course you don’t want to count the gays thrown into Nazi Concentration camps ans worked to death or gassed,,,
Landon Bryce
@Jay759:
Again, you make the point that you really, really, really hate gay people: you actually admit that don’t think we are as good as straight people. You’re wrong about that. Not all gays are promiscuous. Not all gays are selfish.
Add Julian Bond, one of the greatest living civil rights heroes and the head of the NAACP to the list of those who believe that the struggle of gays continues the civil rights struggle that African Americans are part of.
I wish I thought you were just a straight troll rather than a gay man who shares the president’s low opinion of yourself.
Wayne
@Jay759 About not allowing anyone to compare the gay rights/marriage equality movement with the civil rights movement – Here is what Coretta Scott King had to say:
“I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice. But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King Jr. said, “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.”
“I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream to make room at the table of brother- and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.”
“We have to launch a national campaign against homophobia in the black community.”
“Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group.”
“Banning gay marriage is a form of gay bashing.”
“Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions.”
Seems she didn’t have any problems making those comparisons you are so up in arms about.
InExile
@Fitz: Yes, we are on the FOX News blog!!!!!
edgyguy1426
@DuttyBarb: “Go ahead, win all 52 states in the US,hell win in the world, lets see how that works out.” well, like I said…just under-exposed to information.
See what havoc religion wreaks on people? Death, in the name of their God, (how did those Crusades work out for ya?) , destruction and bigotry.
InExile
@edgyguy1426: Possibly she is part of The American Taliban????? Yea, that must be it! The officer of Vice and Vertue!
Jay759
I don’t have a low opinion of myself. And i thank you for educating me on civi rights heroes who support the GLBT community- but SSM should not be our focus right now. Dealing with the recession and terrorism should be our main concerns. Our president has done a great job so far and we need to support him rather than put. Gays need to get over it and stop acting like the world or the president has done you wrong. SSM does not mean EQUALITY. You ALL are enslaved if you think SSM will bring about a better quality of life. Gays and Lesbian are already starting to get a divorce. The grass is not always greener on the otherside especially with gays who can’t keep in in their pants.
DuttyBarb
Ah yes edgyguy1426.. those tired American one-liner isms we are all over.
Get on ur knees and pray for soul bro and stop thinking with your ..well. God loves us all and can change your life.
Gay marriage is an abomination before God
Obama knows the truth
InExile
@Wayne: Amazing words, I wish they could be replayed over and over, it could make a difference! People forget these very important civil rights leaders words.
Landon Bryce
@Jay759: You are actually getting less and less convincing as a gay person and seem more and more like YESON8WON. I don’t think you are the same person, but now you are even referring to gay people as “you.” And, again, not all gays are promiscuous. If you are actually a gay person, you need to get out more. Certainly, you need to meet some mixed race couples and tell them that you think of their relationships as “Mandingo” love. I’m sure they’ll find that completely inoffensive and not at all filled with racist, bigoted, anti-gay hate.
InExile
@DuttyBarb: You would never make it at the Kabbalah Center~!
edgyguy1426
What American one-liner isms? That there are 50 states, not 52? If you don’t have basic knowledge, then how can we believe you can think critically ? How can we take you seriously about anything, really? There are lots of people that post here that don’t agree with the site or anything the site believes in but can do so with critical thought and basic intelligence. Let me know when we DO got that 52nd state…
Lee
@Jay759:
The insanity, HYPOCRISY, gall of the Obamoonies is that they keep treating us like we’re stupid, delusional. They like to pretend that gays simply suddenly decided to make demands on Obama on things he’d never taken a single position on.
We may have given him the check list originally, but HE willingly signed off on it, saying ELECT ME and I will fight to make these things happen, such as FIGHT for DOMA repeal.
We’re just following where he led us…which was to believe that he was serious.
It always comes back, no matter how often the gays who’ve betrayed their own in the name of Mao er Barack, to the wisdom of Pam Spaulding of PamsHouseBlend [BLACK by the way, and second to none in her support for Obama’s election]:
He’s caught in a trap OF HIS OWN MAKING.
[img]http://gaynews.outinasheville.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/10182008obama_stonewall_poster.jpg[/img]
Jay759
@Landon Bryce:
I am the same person who has been writing all these post. And I do get out. I live in NYC and I socialize with my friends every weekend at gay lounges/bars all around. I am not racist, I just have strong view on SSM.
edgyguy1426
Rut roh… my partner being Afro-Brazilian..can’t wait to tell him I’ve been using him all these years for Mandingo love. LMAO
edgyguy1426
ooopps, there goes my lack of proof-reading again @ No.70 “Let me know when we do GET that 52nd state.”
edgyguy1426
Yeah Landon, some of his best friends are gay. So it’s ok
schlukitz
@DuttyBarb:
“oh btw…God is the very center of any marriage.”
A Christian menage á trois. How utterly fascinating.
Tell me. When the three of you are in bed together, does God play the top or does he play the bottom?
InExile
@Lee: Love the Obama Stonewall Poster, is it still possible to buy one?
DuttyBarb
edgyguy1426 So u don’t have any thing concrete to say so you attack me on my choice of words and the fact i said y’all have 52 states..i mean of course..duh..that must imply this lady is stupid and off point..
If that makes you feel better about your perverted lifestyle..ok then go for it. That’s the exact way all the cheerful Sodomites kept on going till God zapped em all.
Go to a church/mosque/synagogue pal..pray for your soul…take your Afro Brazilian partner with you..pervert.
Im leaving this disgusting site..
Good Luck on Gay Marriage Perverts
edgyguy1426
@DuttyBarb: see ya
M Shane
@Jay759 I couldn’t agree with you more. The gay people who curse Obama or not concentrating on their own very narrow, and selfish idea of what he should be doing; ie. taking care of their needs first really shame us. as a group.
When you consider the hideous things that were happening to this country prior to his presidency; which nearly brought an end to our democracy , our respect in the world, and our freedom altogether, we should be hailing this savior of our system. It is no exageration that we were tettering on the edge of a dictatorship not unlike Nazi Germany is no unsubstantiated fact. The man is a hero.
I don’t believe that most gay people will either get or stay married. It is not sociologically wise or likely. We have had enough freedom long enough to know that our pattern is more free wheeling. Monogamy is a pattern constructed for child rearing.
Obama is doing one great job of ruinning this country; don’t be fools or you may have no rights at all to quible about.
edgyguy1426
and DuttyBarb? I don’t know anyone outside of the U.S. that says y’all – wait…do they say that in Southern Canada?
schlukitz
@Jay759:
Ah, yes.
Weekend courses at “Gay lounges/bars 101”
Splendid educational institutions.
Who needs Yale or Harvard…or even a New York Times Desk Reference or an Encyclopedia, for that matter?
schlukitz
@DuttyBarb:
“duh..that must imply this lady is stupid and off point..”
Umm…if the shoe fits?
“Im leaving this disgusting site..”
Bon Voyage. Oh…and NO thanks for stopping by.
Landon Bryce
@Jay759:
I don’t write very well, I’m sorry: I meant that I don’t think you are the person as YESON8WON, not that I don’t think one person wrote all the posts under your handle. I meant that some of your language has been over the top enough that I thought you might be a homophobic troll.
If you are gay, Jay, some of your attitudes are really sad. I hope you’ll consider the possibility that you might actually be equal to a straight person, that not all white gays are racist, and that mixed race couples may actually love each other.
I get angry when people call me selfish for pushing for LGBT rights. It’s not for me. It’s for the kids who are still getting beat up. It’s for the gays in third world countries who do not have truly have an ally in our government yet. Mostly, at this point, it’s for the transgendered: we probably agree that the decisive battle in the gay rights struggle, barring reversal, was Lawrence v Texas, which struck down sodomy laws. Gay people are second class citizens in the United States today, but the transgendered are barely considered citizens at all. If I don’t push for them, who will?
I love the president. I watched both hours of the special, mostly thinking how proud I was. Thinking how, for the first time, I have a first family that I love, that I feel truly represents the best of our country. I am hugely glad that he won the election, and, frankly, I don’t think anything he does on gay rights will endanger my vote. I know he’s smarter than I am, and I think he has our best interests at heart. That will not stop me from being angry when I think he is wrong, knows he is wrong, and does not need to be. We’ve got to give the Democrats our votes but withhold our love and our dollars until they are fully on board with our equality.
Lee
@InExile:
Is it still possible to buy an Obama Stonewall poster?
You got the money, Honey, they have the time to get you one. ENOUGH money that is.
The latest pitch clogging my mailbox reads:
“We’re reserving two seats at the biggest political event of the summer. If your name is chosen, you and a friend will be flown out to Washington, D.C., where you will be provided lodging and two tickets to our special Democratic dinner. There, you will get to meet the president and have your picture taken with him. It’s a night you’ll remember for a lifetime.
But first, you have to enter. And we’ve made that easy: All you have to do is make a contribution of $5 or more to the DSCC before midnight tonight, and you will be automatically entered in our contest. Each additional time you contribute earns you another chance at winning.”
Why goodness me!!! HOW could any gay person pass up such a chance to be photographed with God. After all look at what all my donations last year got me.
Cue “…..this t-shirt” joke.
[img]https://donate.barackobama.com/page/smartproxy/www.barackobama.com/images/email/pride_tshirt_e_wide.jpg[/img]
Landon Bryce
@edgyguy1426: LOL–
Do you think he’ll still love you after you tell him about the Mandingo thing?
Here’s the trailer, if you need to explain it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkR4-n4b7gg
I won’t tell you the name of the trailer that follows it, but it’s horrible offensive and has a great theme song.
edgyguy1426
Why do people think Obama is so one-track that he can’t handle more than one thing at a time? A major speech on civil rights doesn’t take much time at all…I’m not asking him to solve the recession or the wars or anything overnight, and heaven knows he should be doing things like preventing Sri Lanka from becoming his Darfur or Rwanda. But issuing a position paper or backing DOMA repeal or DADT repeal with a speech with some substance would be huge. This man is probably at the zenith of his popularity and as such has a lot of political capitol to spend. If not now…when?
Lee
@Landon Bryce:
“It’s for the kids who are still getting beat up”
AMEN! While ALL of them are counter measures in their own way, marriage equality, DADT, immigration should be secondary to this issue.
He couldn’t spare 10 minutes with Matthew Shepard’s mother to talk remotely substantively about the hate crimes bill NAMED FOR HER MURDERED GAY SON after inviting her to the White House to do just that; it is because, two days after Hillary issued a statement during the primaries about Lawrence King’s murder, he issued a statement, and now he can publicly condemn the murder of a late term abortion doctor and SAY NOTHING about two 11-yr. old little boys KILLING THEMSELVES in one month’s time because people terrorized them with homohatred.
Yes, I, too, am still moved by the fact that A man of color and his family are finally in the White House, but it is because of things like that that I no longer believe THIS man of color genuinely cares.
[img]http://www.douglasmack.com/Images/mattfence.jpg[/img]
InExile
@Lee: Thanks, but no thanks! I’ll save my money for that beautiful swamp land in Florida I have had my eye on! LOL
strumpetwindsock
@edgyguy1426:
I doubt she’s one of ours; if she’s down on Americans for your gay rights I don’t think she could even stand to set foot in our country either.
Also, I looked up “Dutty”.
My guess is she’s from the caribbean, where they DO say y’all.
goony tunes
the kind that calls for booty at two in the morning but forgets your name when you run into him on the street.
edgyguy1426
well, then, that says it all.
edgyguy1426
There’s an interesting YouTube discussion about this. The guy totally is against the ‘gay agenda’ but he doesn’t get all name calling, etc. Unfortunately I’m out of posts there (dunno why-cheesey grin) but it’s worth checking out and having the discussion. If you engage people that only agree with you it’s like preachin to the choir- you have to engage people who don’t agree with you-those are the people that count.
edgyguy1426
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6CVFSyvRLM
Robert, NYC
@M Shane:
M Shane, just how naive are you? Marriage does NOT guarantee monogamy. Explain why one in two straight marriages fail. The primary reasons for that are financial and adultery, a proven fact.
If straight married couples or those intending to marry choose not to rear or cannot produce offspring….I think they too should be banned from marriage by your definition of marriage. What about widows and widowers with children? Next you’ll want to ban them because they refuse to re-marry to raise children to fit your view of what marriage should be in your distorted view or reality.
Come to think of it…..why should secular state governments be in the business of issuing licenses to people who have a religious marriage that brings them hundreds of federal rights? A direct conflict between separation of church and state. If they want those rights, they should be compelled to have a civil marriage and then have it solemnized in their place of worship if they so choose. Religion does NOT own marriage, least of all civil marriage, the state does.
Robert, NYC
I’m an ardent supporter of full marriage equality but I wonder how all these bigots and self-loathers as well as straights would like it if congress passed a law banning marriage and replaced it with civil unions for all? Religious cultists could have it solemnized if they so choose in their place of worship, but not mandatory.
Obama is disengenous when he states he believes in equality for all Americans. How can he if he believes in legal segregation via civil unions for one group and not another, assuming both are equal, which they are not? He is even more incorrect when he states that the federal government should not be in the business of defining marriage. The fact of matter is, it DOES via the federal benefits that can come only via marriage.
Bill Perdue
@DuttyBarb: Bigot A meet Bigot B. http://www.queerty.com/morning-goods-colter-johnson-20090203/ Go to comment 7 where the NAMBLA baiting begins. Are you two related?
Bill Perdue
@Robert, NYC: Excellent point Robert.
It cuts to the chase and exposes the craven hypocrisy of Obama and the Obots. For most of them there is no betrayal great enough to woo them away form their delusional projected image of Obama, who in reality is just another sleazy political hustler like Bush and Clinton.
There should only be one class of citizens, not our current system that devalues people who aren’t rich, aren’t Euroamerican, male and heteronormative into a second class status. In our case that’s enforced legally by bigot laws like Bill Clintons DADT and DOMA.
I do disagree on one point though. He’s not “disengenous”. He’s a sleazebag liar of the first water and a nearly perfect clone of other members of the world’s second oldest profession, like the Bushes, the Clintons, Biden and Cheney.
Mary
I’m just leaving my 2 cents here as a sort of comment-and-dash.
Disclaimer: I am absolutely, positively, not trying to offend anyone. If you’re offended, it’s not because I was trying to offend you.
So that there will be no speculation about my background:
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Orientation: Straight
Politics: Libertarian/Republican (basically Conservative, but not entirely settled in one party).
Nice to meet you. Now I get to make you really mad with my opinion–which of course is not my intention, but (put bluntly) it’s kind of hard to post on SSM with gay people since it usually ends the same way: “You’re a homophobic b**** and I hope you get raped to death, you stupid cow!”
Not a homophobe. Just a Conservative. The two things are not synonyms. Just wanted to make that very, very clear.
1] I have not heard of, nor seen, nor found any proven occurrence of a nationwide ban on gay people visiting relatives or partners in the hospital. As far as I know, gay people can go visit whomever they want, when they want, wherever they want; just like anyone else.
2] Individuals can use wills, regardless of sexual orientation. It really just involves going to a lawyer and saying, “Hey, I want to leave So-and-So this and this and this…”
Just like anyone else.
3] Civil unions are in a lot of ways like ‘normal’ marriage, as far as I know. It would prohibit adoption by gay couples, and while I know that adoption would make a lot of couples very happy, I have to say that I don’t have a huge problem with adoption being prohibited. I feel like the cons might outweigh the pros. I understand that you disagree, and the reasons why–but these are children we are talking about, and considering how incredibly bad our foster system is, the kids might end up with a creep. There’s probably a very low chance of that happening, but it still worries me. It could be that it also worries a lot of other people. I understand that judging an entire group by a few individuals is not the best idea, but it happens. I do try to keep an open mind, so my feelings about SSM are mixed, although I lean toward being against it in favor of civil unions.
Again–not trying to offend, just stating my feelings.
4] Calling straight people ‘breeders’ as a pejorative term is not the best way to be assimilated into society. As it is, affirmative-action type employment laws have made it so that if minorities (gay, black, etc etc etc) apply for a job, they almost have to be hired, sometimes instead of a more qualified candidate. Quotas, etc. If a 6’5″ man in drag applied to work as a cashier in a store that sold rosaries–and was denied employment for the simple reason that the kind of clientele that shops for rosaries might feel uncomfortable with a man in a dress at the front desk, which would then mean that the employer would lose business (and therefore profit)–the man in question could then sue the owner of the store for discrimination.
Technically, it is discrimination–but it’s the kind that generally happens with employers. If you own a business, you naturally don’t want to hire someone that would drive away your clientele, as it would be a bad business move (people with lots of piercings might not be hired as MRI machine technicians, for example) and would be detrimental to the business.
However, suing the employer for making a business decision is not so much advocating equality so much as it is advocating special treatment. Special treatment is the opposite of equality.
5] I don’t have a problem with gay people in the military. However, straight male military members have a distinct “protect the girl” streak, and if they instinctively acted on that (I’m not saying that this is what definitely would happen, but I am mentioning it as a possibility, and nothing more) impulse, it could mean a great deal of danger for the entire platoon.
As it is, women in the military sometimes have trouble throwing grenades far enough (no, I am not saying all gay people are effeminate–I am using this as a comparative example), which means that in the field, that would, again, be a danger to the entire platoon.
Frankly, I personally feel that if any good patriotic American wants to suit up and fight for their country, go for it. But I do think that the one-size-fits-all, “there’s zero difference” idea does not always apply, and unfortunately may need to be taken into consideration.
6] Obama lied to everyone–and is continuing to do so. Frankly, I feel that liberals have been lying to gays and other minorities for ages to get the votes they need. The common argument to that statement is, “Look at the Republicans! They hate gay people!”
No, conservatives don’t actually hate gay people (and if some do, it’s a fringe crowd, trust me). We’re just not too keen on the marriage thing, or anything like they did in Cali recently where elementary school students are being forced to take an LGBT class. (The parents objected to the class. This is not indicative of intolerance–rather, it is indicative of parents not wanting elementary-age kids being told about relationship stuff. At that age, kids probably shouldn’t be told about relationship stuff, regardless of the orientation viewpoints. If a certain parent feels otherwise, they should have the right to choose if they tell their child, and how much they tell their child about the subject–not have it mandated by their state.)
Point is, Obama lied to get your votes. He will continue lying. He is not a good person. I feel that he is really just exposing the undercurrent feeling of the Democratic party–ie, “exploit the minorities to get their votes, then screw them over by abandoning their pet causes that you pledged to support”).
I know most, if not all of you will disagree with every single thing I said. Again, I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but I probably did, which I feel bad about. I’m sorry for the long post, but I wanted to be as clearly phrased as possible.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Hope everyone has a good day, and I wish everyone the absolute best.
InExile
@Mary:
A couple points:
1. If a person is very sick usually only next of kin are allowed to visit. Without laws making partners family, legally you are not.
2.The problem with wills is 50% inheritance tax if you are not a husband, wife, or child of the deceased.
3.The only problem with civil unions is the 1,135 Federal rights that are missing.
4. Affirmative-action type employment laws do not include gay people because legally gay people are not minorities. Therefore gay people can be fired just because they are gay.
5. DADT is a law that legally makes gay people of a lesser class than straight people. All people should be equal in the eyes of the law.
6. No comment.
6.
Robert, NYC
@Mary:
Mary, as a gay male with a lot of life experience, probably a whole lot more than you when it comes to being on the receiving end of discrimination, let me explain a few things to you that most straights are unaware of.
My first partner and I were together over 13 years, he died of lymmphoma before he’d had a chance to live his full life expectancy and died way too soon. We had to pay thousands of dollars to lawyers to draw up documents to protect what we had together including our home we bought together. After he died, one his relatives, an aunt (his parents predeceased him) took me to court to challenge my partner’s will which bequeathed everything to me. It cost me more than $10,000 to defend it, I subsequently won but at considerable cost. Here in NY state, its very hard to contest a will if one is married, under the law, the surviving spouse always inherits even if the other spouse dies intestate. The surrogate court always rules in favor of the surviving spouse after probate, one of the 1324 benefits of marriage that we are denied.
As for hospitial visitation rights, you are incredibly wrong when you say that anyone can visit if not a relative. I had to pay to have a legal document drawn up in order to visit him in intensive care. I was first asked what my relationship to him was. No straight married spouse has to go through any of that let alone face contestation of a spouse’s will. A gay partner cannot even collect his deceased partner’s social security either, among many other things such as filing a joint tax return that you take for granted, another benefit of marriage.
Regarding adoption. Perhaps it would be better if it were mandated that every school in this country had to teach sex education and birth control regardless of parents’ wishes, in that way the number of straights procreating and giving up children for adoption or abandoning them on door steps might be curtailed. There are far more incidences of incest among straight families than there are among their gay counterparts if that’s one of your reasons opposing gay couples adopting and I suspect it is because most right wing conservatives view incest as a purely gay phenomenon. Obviously they haven’t checked the facts or the government statistics. It has been documented and is a fact that children raised with two gay parents have been shown to thrive extremely well and in many cases fare better than some who are raised by married couples where one is abusive or neglectful. The majority of us I might add are no more predatory than our straight counterparts.
As for gays serving in the military, our closest ally the UK among almost every European Union country allows its gay citizens to serve openly. The UK in fact recruits publicly for gay men and women to serve as well as run for public office. These are same men and women who’ve been fighting alongside our own in Iraq and Afghanistan without incident. The British commander of the military has even advocated for and supports openly gay men and women to serve in all three branches and has praised their service to their country.
You are aware of course of the rising number of sexual assaults perpetrated by straight soldiers against female personnel in our own forces? Some have even become pregnant as a result. There has not been one reported incident of a gay soldier involved in any sex scandal in our military compared to offenses committed by straights. This clearly debunks the myth that having openly gay men and women serving would lower morale and cohesiveness and the bulk of our military leaders concur that DADT should be overturned.
If we can fight and give our lives for our country, pay taxes and live by the law, then we should be accorded every right that you take for granted. Why should we have to fight for them?
NO school in our country is forced to “take an LGBT class”. Children should however be taught about sexuality. The reason why homophobic bullying in schools is rampant is because of ignorance and the lack of education. Gay school children are committing suicide because of it and people who think as you do. Homophobia and hatred is learned behavior, usually taught in the homes and a lot of it fueled by right wing christian bigots. Here in NY State, the right wingers tried to start a campaign of fear just as they did in California, much of it supported by the Catholic church and some other right wing evangelical groups, spreading lies about gay people that if same sex marriage were allowed, children would have to be taught about it in schools, that we would be marrying our brothers, sisters, even our pets and other disgusting tings. Fortunately, our education authorities issued an official statement discrediting everything they were saying. It was a red herring thrown out by the right wing to instill fear in people, something that the party of hate excels at and which cost them the last election.
Mary, seven countries now allow same sex civil marriage. The sky hasn’t fallen in, it hasn’t effected anybody else’s marriage because straights are still marrying last time I checked. Nobody is cancelling their wedding because of it. Religion does not own marriage, the state does. Religious denominations do not issue marriage licenses, the state does. Religious denominations are EXEMPT from marrying same sex couples, contrary to the lies that many of them have been spreading. You’ve become a victim of the fear mongering, you’ve allowed your religious views to trample on our basic civil rights as Americans and guaranteed under the 14th amendment of the constitution. Proposition 8 IS about hate when people resort to aggressive pursuit to deny millions of people their inalienable rights based on lies. How would they like it if we as a powerful voting bloc supported a similar proposition to ban religious marriage, or to remove the tax exempt status of religious denominations meddling in the political process to legislate for discrimation against an entire group of people? Maybe if you had a dose of your own medicine, you’d think very differently.
You would do better spending more time trying to help your fellow straights clean up their act first. The divorce rate is soaring, more than 50% of them as a result of adultery, philandering and financial problems, hardly the fault of same sex marriage as many try to claim it is, because its been going on long before marriage equality was an issue. Remember, people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. “Judge not lest ye shall be judged” obviously has fallen on deaf ears among the opponents of same-sex marriage. When you get a chance, check out http://www.fallwell.com……..you might learn something about the religious people who think that discrimination against us is ok using their beliefs to justify it.
Robert, NYC
@Bill Perdue:
Bill, thanks. Keep your comments coming, a lot of people who post here are averse to the truth or reality of what is going in our political system. Check out Mary’s comments, No. 98.
jason
The GLBT community needs to tell the Democrats that we are not a political community, and that our general support for the Democratic Party should not be taken for granted. We are a non-political community whose aim is to achieve equal rights for all. If the Democrats think they can lie to us and expect us to still vote for them, they’re hugely mistaken.
Fitz
@jason: I agree, and I think that is one of the few positives coming out of the current situation. At first, the progressive community was shocked that we weren’t in lock step with them in their unexamined worship of Obama. And I think that a lot of GLBT’ers were in shock or hurt that the progressive community was so willing to throw us under the bus for the sake of political safety. (count me in that group). So.. this is good. Not to be Polyanic about it, but at least we know where we stand.
Robert, NYC
@jason:
Jason, I’ve been espousing this for years but every time I do, I’m castigated by the likes of people who support HRC and other “gay” equality organizations telling me that we have to be polite to them and be patient because dems are our only hope. To hell with that. Where has it gotten us all these years, just delay delay delay, any excuse. We wouldn’t see any change or difference if the economy was booming. We’re the last group to hate, the scapegoats for all that is wrong with this society, you name it, we’re responsible for it. There are right wing loonies who post here claiming we’re to blame for the decline in out of wedlock births and African American men not marrying, in other words, same sex marriage is harming theirs. Others claim we’re responsible for the soaring divorce rates, yet they’ve continued to rise long before marriage equality was an issue. Go figure.
Do any of the apologists really believe that they’ll see repeal of DADT before November of 2010 or 2012 now that Obama has deferred to the military leaders to resolve it….many of whom are right wing christo-fascists. None of our nato allies had to rely on their military to allow their gay citizens to serve openly, it was swiftly legislated by the parties in power. This is nothing more than a cop out.
As for repeal of DOMA….forget about it, not going to happen.
Bill Perdue
@jason: @Fitz: @Robert, NYC: Democrats, and I don’t mean rank and file voters but the owners of that party are no more our friends than their Republican kin. The salient difference between the two parties is that the Democrats lie to trawl for votes and the Republicans simply write us off. Both parties have expressed their bipartisan, christer inspired bigotry for decades.
Obama, who’s ‘gawd’s in the mix’ doomed same sex marriage in California is following the path pioneered by Clinton who championed DOMA and DADT and by Bush who organized the bigots and surrendered his party to them.
Both parties are ardent supporters of DOMA. It’s unlikely that either will consider repeal of DADT except to stave off reintroduction of the draft. Even then, given the good sense of most in our communities and the country as a whole, it’s unlikely GLBT folks will be enlisting in droves just to get killed or maimed and increase the profit margin of Haliburton and Chevron-Texaco.
The passage of an inclusive EDNA, not Barney Frankenstein’s gutted version, and a hate crimes bill would be useful tools to alleviate some problems but they’ll never end discrimination and bigotry in a society based on the rule of the looter rich and their strategy of divide and rule.
Ending bigotry awaits fundamental, revolutionary changes in US society. The way to get that is not to threaten the Democrats but to break from them and the Republicans, two peas in a pod and launch our own democratically run mass action movement based on cutting edge militancy.
strumpetwindsock
@jason:
The Dems will become increasingly irrelevant if the real battle ground for marriage equality turns out to be in the courts(the fact that they appoint judges notwithstanding).
On the other hand… one presumes that a person with left/centre sentiments will just stop voting rather than take out a Republican party membership. More likely the Dems are counting on the chance that people spurned on gay rights will just hold their noses and keep voting for them on other issues.
Of course, that only works so far, especially when it comes to fundraising.
@Bill Perdue:
Why militant, Bill? Do you think the only way to turn public opinion in our favour is through force and fear?
I agree with much of your analysis; it’s your tactics and strategy that are whacked.
In the first place, I don’t think north americans (and many europeans) have the stomach for insurrection, especially if it impacts their access to lattes, cable TV or WalMart.
Secondly, I think you are ignoring the fact that the right wing is just as anxious to exploit hard times as the left. They have a distinct advantage though, in that they are probably better armed, and are not as concerned about breaking a few eggs to achieve their goals.
We are already winning this struggle (slowly but surely).
Turning this into a militant struggle is a mistake in my opinion, first because it will undo our growing public support (which is there even if you do not want to see it). Secondly, I think you are blind to the fact that you do not have the numbers to achieve your goals by force. You would only be helping our opponents and the authorities who would love to portray us as a bunch of out-of-control vandals.
BTW Bill, I heard a radio documentary recently that might interest you:
http://www.cbc.ca/ideas/features/france/index.html
(the “permanent revolution” episode)
Having been over there and seen French farmers regularly overturn and destroy Spanish produce trucks, I can tell you the cops get pretty blasé about violence once it becomes the norm.
Bill Perdue
@strumpetwindsock: Strumpet, why do you always lie? There’s a difference between ‘militant’ and ‘military’ and you’re simply lying, as you often do, trying to conflate them.
You’re from a nation which never had a revolution and kept in a colonial status without true independence until recently.
We’re different in that we’ve had two revolutions, the first completing much of what was left undone by Cromwell and combining it with the constitutional federalism of native Americans. The second overturned slavery, something left undone by the first. A third great revolutionary change is long overdue to end imperial militarism, bigotry and the rule of the looter rich.
I suspect that it’s the lack of a revolutionary past that leads some particularly dense Canadians to imagine that their history is the norm. It’s not; it’s an oddity among advanced nations. Thankfully most Canadians are not that dense and when the time comes will grasp, as we do in this country, that the only change that will end bigotry, as opposed to softening its blows, is fundamental, revolutionary change.
If you continue to lie about what I say then don’t expect me to bother to reply. I have no time for liars.
Go bait tankie, you two deserve each other.
strumpetwindsock
@Bill Perdue:
Actually the U.S. is more an exception in the community of developed nations than Canada is.
And as a matter of fact we have had several popular revolutions… in upper and lower canada in 1837, the red river rebellion in 1870, and the northwest rebellion in 1885.
And although the British played a large role in 1812 the Canadian public actively opposed the American invasion. Likewise opposition to the fenian raids in the mid-1800s (not a revolution, I know, but it was a popular movement).
And more recently, I cannot think of a greater sea-change in north american society than the revolution in Quebec at the end of the Duplessis regime in the 60s.
Then there is Oka, Ipperwash, Kahnesatake, and a number of other blockades and uprisings that have happened in recent years
By contrast, I wouldn’t call your civil war a revolution. If anything, it was the suppression of a separatist revolution. Although it ended slavery, I am sure you realize that the people who won that war were the power brokers and industrialists.
And I certainly don’t claim that we have ended bigotry in our country, but I do think Canada has gotten a lot more progressive change through compromise and working toward the common good than some countries have through factionalism and militancy.
Your reference to Cromwell is telling, because for all his good intentions (and although he became a religious fascist I think he did have good intentions) his revolution failed because the people did not have the guts to back him up and take the reins of power. The only people who took any interest in running government were the same politicians who had run the show before.
Call it whatever you want Bill, you don’t have the numbers, and I don’t think most of the people you want to convert have the guts for the kind of militant struggle you are talking about.
And I think you are ignoring the fact that the right wing usually gets the most mileage out of hard times and civil unrest.
Likewise, I think most of your projections for the middle east are simply not going to happen anytime soon, and likely not at all.
But I’m actually trying to have a serious conversation with you, not bait.
strumpetwindsock
@Bill Perdue:
And you forget that our country WAS here and the people experienced your revolution just as the Americans did.
Ben Franklin came to Montreal to try and drum up support in lower Canada and he failed.
Many of the loyalists who did not support your revolution came here as refugees (including part of my own family, some of whom stayed down south to fight).
As well, not all of your colonies were as fervent supporters as the new englanders.
Our country did not join yours in revolution, but you can’t pretend that we were not aware of it, nor that we were not influenced by it.
Robert, NYC
@Bill Perdue:
Bill, I totally agree, the Dems do lie to us to get votes. It happened with Clinton and now Obama. If the Dems were truly interested in our full equality, we would not have had the Stonewall riots and we should not have had to fight for it ourselves. I don’t ever recall ONE of them voluntarily raising the issue of equality as far as our rights are concerned, they had to be reminded when Stonewall erupted.
I dont expect much if anything from this administration before its first and probable last term is over in 2012 with or without the economic downturn. After being lied to year after year, election after election, if we get nowhere, then what else is there butto resort to militancy? Political correctness and polite dialog with them hasn’t really worked, they promise this and that while they campaign and deliver zero once elected. How much more must we have to put up with it, they take our votes for granted and its about time we spelled it out for them…deliver the goods or else? As far as I’m concerned, they’ve yet to earn my vote. The only party that fully supports our equality publicly is the Green Party, one that I could support. If every gay voter supported them instead of the other two, I think it would send a clear message to the Dems. We do need a third viable party, no question about it. The current system clearly doesn’t work with leaders on both sides tied too closely to corporatism. Then of course, there are those among us who would argue that if we did that, we’d not only weaken either side but also lose majority control of both houses. Well…to them I say this….the Dems have control of both houses….including many states, just exactly what is it that they’re going to do for us before 2012? I don’t see anything on the horizon. I can guarantee DADT will not be repealed by November of 2010 or 2012 for starters.
M Shane
Joe just looks like a crook, it’s hard to tell. He sure makes a lot of money to B.S. people.
M Shane
A majority of gay liberationists don’t support marriage, I suspect,Ones attitude toward ‘marriage’ is just a measure of wanting to copy the straight fetish; it’sa religious war.
He supports Civil Unions .
TANK
ROTFLMAO! I’m not your guy, buddy!
Bill Perdue
@Robert, NYC: You’re right. For instance the main reason that California Democrats like Leno and Newsome got behind SSM is the existence of the Green Party and the Peace and Freedom Party which would likely pull enough votes to knock them out if they failed to support our agenda.
Both of those parties and others like them across the US are growing under the impact of the economic collapse and the spread of war in Southwest Asia. Waiting in the wings is the AFL-CIO led and financed Labor Party with a potentially vast base, a decent program and huge finances. What’s holding it back is the craven reliance of the AFL-CIO leadership on the Democrats.
That could change. Labor has been as disappointed as ourselves by the Democrats. Clinton gave us DOMA and DADT as a reminder that relying on sleazy political hustlers is a losers game. Labor, in return for their support, got union busting bills like NAFTA and bank deregulation which are two of the main causes of the current collapse. Obama promises more of the same.
As the economic and war crises deepen we may see the Labor Party unleashed in the electoral arena. And if not the growing radicalization of the GLBT communities, youth and students, working people and etc. is sure to toss up new ways to vote against the hustlers and fakers who run the Democratic (sic) party.
Our way to get ahead is to have a militant “won’t take no for an answer’ approach, to emphasize mass actions and to become politically independent of both parties run by bigots. If this or that liberal or conservative wants to support us that’s all to the good, but relying on them is suicidal.
strumpetwindsock
@Bill Perdue:
A Labour Party like Tony Blair’s you mean?
As someone who has always voted for a labour party I can tell you they are the best option, but trade unions and unionist parties know what power smells like just as much as any other political party, and they can sell out just as quickly when push comes to shove.
It’s a good tactic in the broader political sense… risky, though because you could spend 20 years splitting the vote and electing Republicans, and if you ever manage to build a solid party all it would take is one convention to have it stolen out from under you.
But as for forwarding our specific agenda, I wouldn’t trust that any outside group – union, political, church – is oging to be with us 100 percent of the time. I think we need their support, and it is important to build a coalition, but I wouldn’t put anyone else in the driver’s seat of our movement.
Robert, NYC
@Bill Perdue:
Bill, yep….agree with you on that. Also, I think the emerging younger generation, the next generation of voters, mostly the college educated are beginning to see that the Dems aren’t doing enough and a vast proportion of them are on our side. I think they will be the ones to get us where we need to be. Its up to us to nurture it. We need to start by having massive, national statewide political demonstrations on a regular basis, enlist the unions, college students, not just once a year, but the year round without any letup. Now is the time to put pressure on the powers that be, just to let them know, we’re not going away and we won’t be silenced,we won’t be compromised and that we “demand” our equality or face the consequences, we should be done with asking for what is rightfully ours.
Robert, NYC
@strumpetwindsock:
Bill, does anyone really know just how many gay voters there are in this country? We know the Log Cabiners are just over 1 million, but what about the rest? My dream would be for all of us to support the Green Party, empower it like its never been before, get the unions on board, the younger progressive voters and win a few seats to start the ball rolling for real change. You can bet both parties would come grovelling at our feet and wouldn’t it be sweet justice to say to them….NO MORE?
Robert, NYC
@M Shane:
Just because some in our corner don’t support marriage equality doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have the right if we so choose. Nobody is forcing any of us to marry, its a right that EVERYONE should enjoy, again if they so choose. Civil unions and marriage should be interchangeable or have one fits all. Why shouldn’t straights who choose not to marry have the right to form a civil union? Obama thinks civil unions are equal, but if you asked him if straights should be allowed to have them, you can bet his answer would reflect Tony Blair’s….”no, straights can get married”. The reason why Blair nixed civil partnerships for straights was rather transparent, it would have created a situation for gays to demand the right to marry. He didn’t want any confrontation with the christo fascist Anglicans (Episcopalians) or offend the Roman cultists. Proof positive they’re not equal and of course….god is in the mix when all is said and done. Obama is NO different, nor was Clinton.
AxelDC
President Obama is correct: the Federal govt does not set marriage boundaries. However, it does respect those decisions by the state.
DOMA violates this and needs to be overturned. Obama committed to overturning DOMA and DADT. He needs to respect that and give gay married couples in the 6 states and DC that have full marriage equality the same respect the Federal government gives to straight marriages, namely joint taxes, Social Security survival benefits, and recognizing the spouses of gay Federal employees.
He also has to immediately stop firing us for gay. If my friend fires me from my job, military or not, just for being gay, I’d rather cast my lot with avowed enemies.
His litany of “legal rights” just won’t cut it, and would have never gotten my support last year during the primaries.
michael
@Jay759: I cant believe that a black man uses the race card to say its ok to disallow another group of people equal rights. You ungrateful dumbass! Its about equal rights. Open your eyes, so many members of the LGbtQ family are beaten, some to death, everyday. You have your rights, so f*ck everyone else?
What if you could ride at the front of the bus, but not vote? That ok with you? This is what is going on here. Get a clue.
Obama is office, I helped put him there and he is better that what we had, however he still needs to address the marriage equality issue. It’s about equal civil rights.
African Americans and LGBTQ Americans all have suffered abuse and now its time for everyone to equal civil rights.
rhydderch
@Jay759: Dude you really shouldn’t play the race card with this issue. I can pull out my African American card too and let me tell you it is the same thing. In accept your argument is to accept that being gay is a choice. African Americans were discrimimated against in this country just as homosexuals. Further, the US did not have a monopoly on slavery. History will tell you that slavery amounted to a class issue between the have and have nots. By the way I’m sure you also have no idea what it’s like to be enslaved and pick cotton all day either.
We seriously need to come together here and fight the real issue here which is discrimination. No one cried like I did the night Barack was elected however being black does not absolve him of his obligation. His tin ear on this issue is disgusting and how he can pose this “separate but equal” argument is bull f’nk’g sh!t if you ask me.
Gentleman, we are in this alone and have to continue on with our fight. The problem is (and I’m definitely guilty of this myself) is I thought Obama would approach this issue with the same veracity as closing Gitmo. (Boy was I wrong) We have no friends in the Whitehouse. Friends don’t make you sit at the back of the bus. Friends stand up for you. Barack Obama is no friend of mine.