DISGUST: 4 Teens Rape Classmate With Hockey Stick and Broom


A 13-year-old student at Tampa’s Walker Middle School has returned to classes after a harrowing tale that involved a broom and a hockey stick. Four of his classmates stand were being investigated for bullying the boy when officials learned the torment went much deeper. The suspects, ages 14-15, were arrested and charged with sexual battery and false imprisonment for the rape that took place less than two weeks ago on April 30; the bullying took place during a window of March 15 and May 5, though it’s easy to assume it went on longer than that. The boy, who is in seventh grade, identified his eighth grade assailants on Wednesday. Parents were notified via phone message the next day.

Bad news for the suspects? Assistant State Attorney Pam Bondi says they’ll all be charged as adults.

The 13-year-old boy said the bullying had been going on for months.

But he didn’t say anything. Not to a teacher. Not to a coach. Not to his mother.

Not even when two of the bullies held him down while the other two sexually battered him with a broom handle and hockey stick, authorities say. The boys were alone in the locker room getting ready for an interscholastic flag football team practice.

“That’s part of this tragedy,” Hillsborough County school superintendent MaryEllen Elia said Saturday. “For whatever reason, he didn’t tell anyone.”

That changed Wednesday, she said, following an altercation between the victim and his tormenters on the flag football field at Walker Middle School on Tuesday night.

The coach, noticing something unusual, pulled the boy aside.

“The victim said to him, ‘I’m just sick of this,’ ” Elia said.

The coach followed up the next morning, and had the alleged bullies meet with a female physical education teacher. The teacher instructed each of the four students to write down his version of events.

Hours later, deputies from the Hillsborough County Sheriff’s Office arrested four students: Randall John Moye, 14; Raymond A. Price-Murray, 14; Lee Louis Myers, 14; and Diemante J. Roberts, 15. [St. Petersburg Times]

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  • brybry

    damn boy 2nd from the right is cuttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

  • jake

    well don’t know the facts so can’t say i know who’s guilty what happened…but the description of this sounds horrible.

  • Rot in Jail

    This should be a warning to parents who teach to hate. I wish the parents of these ass wipes could be tried and sent to prison as well.

  • ajax

    Japhy, they’re children. What they did is horrible and reprehensible, but they’re children. Please take the boys’ photos down.

    However, if you wish to replace the boys’ photos with photos of the “parents” who raised them, I’d be happy to see what they look like – maybe even know their names, phone numbers and e-mail addresses.

  • Oaklander

    @brybry: Here is hoping that someday you meet someone like him, and get to have as much fun.

  • AlanInSLC


    its sad that a story on potential RAPE of a boy barely a teenager leads to comments of how cute one of the accused is. Thats kind of disgusting. No wait, that is TOTALLY Disgusting.

  • Oaklander

    Hey editor: don’t you think you are on shaky legal turf publishing the pics of minors who have been accused (not convicted) of a crime?

  • dk

    a. the BOY is 14 or 15
    b. this is your immediate response to this act of violence to a child?
    c. something is clearly wrong with you

  • Jack

    I am glad they will be charged as adults and kudos to the coach who was paying attention. I don’t think it’s so much an issue of “teaching hate” as much as it is failing to teach respect. These boys got what they deserve in the charging and hopefully will get what they deserve in sentencing.

  • dgz

    while i see your point, it doesn’t matter because they’ve been charged as adults, within the prosecutor’s discretion. i’m not even going to touch the debate of whether that’s right or not, however.

    p.s. clearly brybry is a plant from someone who is trying to make us all look sick.

  • Chitown Kev


    They are being charged as adults which means (I think) that they can be treated as adults, including the publication of their pictures.

  • Oaklander

    You guys might be right, I am not sure. I just think it isn’t a good idea to publish a photo until there is a conviction. What if one of them was miss-identified? It’s just bad president.

  • Oaklander

    President? HAHAHA. I am laughing at myself, and making coffee.

  • paulied

    @Jack: You think it’s a lack of respect that would lead four boys to hold a younger boy bown and shove a broom handle and a hockey stick up his ass? Really? Sounds more like hate to me.

  • Alec

    I’m not certain I approve of them being charged as adults (I really think that should be limited), but this is a disturbing story.

    @brybry: Inappropriate for various reasons.

  • dgz

    lol, it’s okay. identification isn’t really an issue, because these kids all know each other, and these are mug-shots. also, publication has the [potentially] legitimate public interests of protecting people from alleged criminals who’ve made bail, and/or allowing other potential victims the opportunity of recognizing them and coming forward.

    @Chitown Kev: exactly. of course, the media can do whatever it wants, it’s the *authorities* who get into trouble for leaking identifying info.

    however, i agree that posting pictures of alleged juvenile offenders is perhaps ethically questionable. of course, if they’re guilty, the point is moot.

  • Jack

    @Paulie: No, Paulie, you misread. I was responding to a comment about the parents teachings. The act was certainly hateful. I don’t think that these acts, however, are always caused by parents sitting around a kitchen table and saying “Chapter 3, Beating up Queers.” I think that sometimes the topic of gays never comes up or, more importantly, the topic of how we treat others never comes up. Thus, through that ignorance bullies are raised.

  • Jack

    @paulied: @Paulie: No, Paulie, you misread. I was responding to a comment about the parents teachings. The act was certainly hateful. I don’t think that these acts, however, are always caused by parents sitting around a kitchen table and saying “Chapter 3, Beating up Queers.” I think that sometimes the topic of gays never comes up or, more importantly, the topic of how we treat others never comes up. Thus, through that ignorance bullies are raised.

  • michael

    I have mixed emotions about them being tried as adults. I don’t think they need to have it easy if they are found guilty but I would like to think that 8th graders, with intense therapy and consequences might be good candidates for rehabilitation. Kids don’t do shit like this because they are merely bored. This was an act of rage and very typical of the behaviors of abused children.

    As far as BRYBRY goes, When I was 13 my little sister of 4 was molested by our next door neighbor. When my mother came to me to tell me the bad news I laughed out loud like it was funny. The fact of the matter is that I had been molested at an early age and my response was one of survival, I had learned to laugh and think it was funny in order to disassociate with my own experience. I don’t know what your problem is BRYBRY but it might do you well to do some soul searching and get some help. Your reaction to this story and the fact that you would even post it is indicative of something fucked up going on inside you.
    Such lack of empathy is disturbing at is quite suspect.

  • Geoff

    @Oaklander: You are absolutely right. I’m sick of seeing comments like these in response to tragic stories. These posters are pathetic.

  • Tallskin

    “damn boy 2nd from the right is cuttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee”

    Possibly BryBry’s comments are trying to be ironic, and pointing towards the fate that awaits these boys in prison – as in some older con pointing to the boys and saying: “damn boy 2nd from the right is cuttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee”, come into my cell, pretty boy, come sit on my lap and let’s talk about what comes up.

    But I have my doubts.

    I don’t think these kids should be charged as adults though. That will totally fuck up their lives, when what they need is a short and hard punishment, like a serious caning, and reforming, not 30 years in prison.

    Jeeez, your US penal system is world renowned for its savage and brutal sentencing for no good reason.

    I find you yanks a little bizarre sometimes! You think a 16 year old boy is not old enough to choose who he can fuck with, yet you seriously want to lock him up in prison, as an adult, when he commits a crime at age 15!!


  • Mike

    @brybry: please say that is either sarcasm or an attempt at prison humor… if that’s the case then it’s merely in poor taste.

    If you are serious though… please, get help. He’s a 15 year old child (sic) who has been accused of sexual assault. I’ll give you, he looks like if you gave him another 10 years and he weren’t a potentially sick and twisted individual he might be attractive, but there is nothing I would say should make him “cute” to a grown adult (and I may be assuming too much to think you are an adult… you may be a 15 year old yourself for all we know, in which case your comment wouldn’t be that out of line aside from the whole, that guys still really screwed up and twisted).

  • Jaroslaw

    Frankly, I don’t think ANYONE’s picture or identifying details should be in the paper until they are convicted. Your life is absolutely ruined if you are charged with certain things in this country, whether you’re guilty or not.

    I remember a local schoolbus driver who absolutely positively couldn’t have committed child abuse once all the details were known – but of course, when he was charged and it was reported; the non stop obscene telephone calls came, bricks through his window, exploding mailbox etc. If he didn’t move and change his name, he should have!

  • boytroy

    A sad story all the way around. Here we have a young person whose has received a lot of physical and psychological damage. We also have 4 other young people, 1 step from being children and 2 steps from being adults that have perpetrated this abuse. There are no winners here and a sad commentary on how we are failing to instill empathy both at home and in school in our children.

    While I applaud the fact that this issue is not being swept under the carpet I do have my worries. The 4 youth that may have committed this crime live in a rigid, small minded area of the country and I can totally see no real justice taking place in this case. The answer here is certainly not to just send this kids away for 30 years and let them come out just worst than when they went in. But I do not have a lot of faith in the state of Florida. Maybe by the grace of God this case will be assigned to a balanced,
    sane judge to handle, if there is such a thing in the state of Florida.

  • Anonymous

    If he were sodomized with a broom stick there should be signs of it. I see no doctors examination report. I am not defending these boys but I am holding off on judgement. I find it several things here they raise eyebrows and not just the rape.

    Are kids taught common sense anymore? I don’t think so.

  • Jerrold

    It is EXTREMELY important the accused are tried as adults.

    Because if they are tried as juveniles, in three or four years, it is wiped from their record, they can change their names, and do it again to someone else. Tried as adults they have to live with it, and register as the sex offenders that they presumably are.

    @Queerty: Are you not going to remove brybry’s comment? If it needs to be an opinion poll, I will be the first to make the motion. (or second it if someone else is writing the same thing right now.)

  • Lex

    Disgusting. I really hope this isn’t true, but I’m sure it is knowing how bullies in schools are now.

  • The Lesbian Mafia

    The victim will probably be paying for this crime for the rest of his life with his health, good chance he has some serious permanent damage. It only seems fair the criminals should pay with doing equal time, which is much more pleaeant than the emotional problems this kid will have to deal with for the rest of his life.

  • Oaklander

    @The Lesbian Mafia: Let’s not encourage victimhood as a lifelong identity. He has been through hell. With good care, and a strong dedication to health, there is no reason why he can’t recover and have a productive and happy life. We are resilient, if nothing else.

  • Zakyluv

    Its the little punks who go rape, steal, hurt, and demoralize innocent people that give us decent gays a bad name. I would love to know why any gay would want people to think any worse of him. Also, for the victim…. this couldve been stopped right away… it may not have been the cool thing but its better than being raped! Personally thats all i can say.

  • petted

    @Tallskin: They’d actually be in a juvenile detention facility until they come of age – where its likely they’d receive extensive counseling it’s also possible that they’re only going to try the 15 year old as an adult.

  • TANK

    IT’s not uncommon for them not to tell due to shame and fear. I’m sure there were threats issued if he told. I know someone whose experience with high school sexual predators at a very young age…was much, much worse…and did a lot more damage. He never told, either. Doesn’t speak to his parents anymore, though.

  • DUH

    @Oaklander: public records. minors or not, booking photos are public.

  • Zakyluv

    @TANK:See? It needs to be stopped before it escalates. I may have been a snitch in highschool but i was never bothered and i still had plenty of friends.

  • jojoko

    while this is certainly terrible. i just don’t want those kids charged as adults. they are at oldest 15. and certainly not adults. i don’t care if they killed the boy, they shouldn’t be charged as adults.

  • shelby84

    This is so disturbing that I really don’t think I can come up with a coherant response without sounding like a raving lunatic…

  • Tony

    The person I feel sorry for is the victim of this crime. Adult rapists and murderers often have a history of violent behavior as children. We don’t have all the facts, but it is highly likely that these kids chose the victim because they perceived him to be gay.

    Sexual assault in various forms is often used against LGBT people. A few months ago a lesbian was gang raped by a group of young men just outside of Oakland California. It was reported that throughout the attack the men screamed antigay slurs at the woman and expressed that they were giving her what she deserved for being a lesbian.

    This type of violent behavior is fueled by antigay hatred, taught in homes and churches across the globe. It is quite possible that these kids thought they were punishing the kid for being gay. Again, just speculation on my part, but possible nonetheless.

  • hardmannyc

    “Japhy, they’re children. What they did is horrible and reprehensible, but they’re children. Please take the boys’ photos down.”

    Listen, pal, having their precious little photos on a gay website is the least-bad thing I’d like to see happen to these creeps.

  • archie


    Well most of what you are implying or saying is either exaggerated or false. Of course the US is renowned the world over for practically everything…in Europe at least. You guys have a habit of picking things out and exploiting him. Its a pretty good trick, distracts you people from your own problems.

  • archie

    *them not him

  • sal(the original)

    @AlanInSLC: i agree with ya

  • kademonster

    this is horrible. boys in my school used to haze new members of the baseball team by sodomizing them with brooms. but it’s a small community so they boys that did it thought it was funny, the kids it happened to quit the team or left school. no parental action was taken. it’s really sick. ha! then they turned around and called me a fag. Seems a bit wild given what they did for entertainment.

  • Cam

    Look at that pathetic little bastard on the left, trying to act all tough in his mug shot. I wonder if he’ll look so tough when he’s feeling what it felt like to be his victim for the next 15 years in an adult prison. I’m sure these ones will completely miss the irony of the situation as they are experiencing prison rape first hand.

  • Cam

    @Tallskin: You said “Jeeez, your US penal system is world renowned for its savage and brutal sentencing for no good reason.”

    Thats funny, in eurpose your penal systems are renowed for sentancing child rapists to probation and only putting them away after their third offence. For telling Dutch gays to not hold hands so they won’t upset people, rather than telling people not to attack them, and of course, lets not for get about the wonderful French systen where Massive rates of injected drug use are only slightly less surprising than the fact that prisoners recently escaped when somebody landed a helocopter and took off with them. Euros and people from other countries that insult the U.S. depend upon us not knowing anything about your countries. Well try again.

  • mojojojo

    @brybry: If it was up to me I would lock all those boys up with a male baboon, we’ll see who get raped then! They would probably get their faces torn off too!

  • Tallskin


    judging from your written comments the good old US of A’s education system has failed to teach you how to spell.

    (“USA best goddamed country in the world, Bud, and I’ll fucking kill yer if you say different”. USA, USA, USA)

    “Well, try again.” (and please note, dumbarse, this time with the necessary comma in the correct place)

    YEAH, bring it on.

  • Gary

    Unless you were the victim of this type of crime, you’ll never understand. . .the hurt and physiological damage NEVER stops.

    What happened is reprehesible, and the perpetrators should be brought to justice. . .age has nothing to do with this crime whatsoever.

    40 years ago when this type of crime happened to me, the teacher/coach sat in the window overlooking the crimes, day after day . . said it was “just part of growing up, get over it” and laughed that I even bothered to ask for help . .but NO . . .a person doesn’t “get over it” EVER.

    When I see comments like “”damn boy 2nd from the right is cuttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee” . . . I’m sickened. When I read that people think this isn’t worthy of an adult crime I just want to throw up.

    Today, I have a reasonable life, but am haunted by this crap every single day and wonder how it might be different if it weren’t for the torture of my bullies or the apathy of adults.

  • Archie


    My god would you stop being such a tool. God forbid anyone criticize Europe than they must be labeled right wing half wits.
    Only acceptable criticism is that of the US right?

  • Gary

    @Gary: I didn’t say I could spell.

  • Archie


    excelent comment Gary, it doesn’t matter what age these boys were, they were completely aware of what they were doing and should be tried as adults.

  • Tony

    “When I see comments like “”damn boy 2nd from the right is cuttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee” . . . I’m sickened. When I read that people think this isn’t worthy of an adult crime I just want to throw up.”

    @Gary, I could not agree more. Well said.

  • Tony

    “”When I see comments like “”damn boy 2nd from the right is cuttttttttteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee” . . ”

    I have to say that that comment made by Brybry was just creepy on so many levels.

  • Bill S

    Brybry MIGHT be a plant, all right…from the neck up.
    My guess is he’s just one of those a**holes who posts sick shit just elicit a shock.

  • Daniel

    @Tallskin: “For no good reason” huh? really? Do you have any idea what type of psychological damage those 4 DID to that kid? I honestly believe they should get the maximum penalty allowed by law, and getting counseling every waking moment of every day they’re in prison so they can realize what they’ve done to him! Until you know the damage, you have no right to criticize the U.S.A.’s court system. NONE.

  • strumpetwindsock

    I’m sure I’ll catch shit for this, but there are good reasons why there is a youth criminal justice system.

    As horrific as this crime is the decision of whether to raise them to adult court or not is best left to the judge.

  • strumpetwindsock


    And from that comment I doubt you have spent much time with teenagers. You MAY be right, but it doesn’t always come down to the parent.

  • DADA

    i agree brybry…that kid is smokin

  • BobP

    They should be tried as adults. Think of the torture the victim endured having to go to school with these animals every single day. I’m sure they made his life a living hell. These kids need to learn that this behavior will be punished by spending some time in prison.
    I’m sick of people making excuses for this crap.

  • TANK

    Of course there’s a good reason for a juvie justice system…but some crimes committed by so-called “youths” are far too disturbing to overlook. For example, do you think a juvie sentence would be good for a serial killer was fourteen?

  • TANK

    I think those arguing for lenience have never met certain types of people nor had certain types of life experience to know better.

  • Gary

    I believe that my abusers deserved equal punishment under the law. Not because of their age. . .they knew exactly what their motives were.

    Today, I would only hope that the attitude toward this type of crime would be different. . .I will beg to differ with anyone who thinks this type of crime/bullying doesn’t happen every day in our country. . .unreported because of shame perpetrated by fear from the victim and apathy from educators.

  • YeahWhat

    AJAX, to call you a cretin would be an insult to cretins. You need to be bitch-slapped into the real world and I’d love nothing more than to be the one to do it.

  • JustBinMe

    @Rot in Jail: That’s like blaming your parents for your sexual orientation. Come on now!!!

  • Roy Rogers Oldenkamp

    Did anyone see Bully? Juvies murder a bully. In Florida.
    It IS parenting to a large degree, overworked parents who are disengaged from their children. We got into mischief in our teens, much of it homoerotic, actually, and a bit hazing-like at times, but nothing this sinister. This goes beyond that sexual curiosity thing to outright violence.
    That said, I think we as a society should be careful about trying children as adults.
    It’s a precedent that has landed mentally incapacitated youth to unjust sentences, among others.
    BTW the Euro dude is right. Our drug laws have sterner sentences than murder, in many cases. We have the highest level by far of incarceration in the world. There is almost no counseling and endless recidivism. The system is broken. Just like parenting.

  • Dairyqueen

    @brybry: Your disregard for any sense of decency for the poor young man who was rape, by saying one of his rapist is cute, I find disturbing. You’re one of the reasons why people hate us and want to do horrific thing to us like the poor young man, by acting like a oversexed pig.

  • Dairyqueen

    @ajax: I say leave those photos up. These young men knew very well what they were doing. This isn’t pre internet/media age/good old days. Teenagers know way more than a lot of us did when we were 14 years old.
    They know damn well that bullying and forcefully ramming a broom handle up someone ass is wrong.
    If they want to bully like an adult then they should be held accountable for their actions as an adult.

  • JustBinMe

    The saying “It takes a village” stands here. We (as in society) are all at fault for the way this generation is. Sex oozes from the music, tv, movies, billboards, magazines etc..and we wonder why teen pregnancy and promiscuity from such a young age is so prevalent. Our economic situation in most areas, require a two income household and yet, we wonder why these latch key kids get into so much trouble when the parents are struggling to make ends meet and that’s not even to speak of the single parents forced to do the job of two people!

    I remember growing up, if I did something wrong and my parent wasn’t around, another adult would step in. I remember when schools had the right to swat a child when he/she was doing harm, yet also hug a child when they did well or just needed it (now, either of these things could bring on a lawsuit, even if it was acceptable to the parents for this to take place!

    We are so damned liberal in CA, that a parent has the responsibility for their child, but not the authority to raise their child! Dr, Spock even retracted his “time out” theory!

    This is kind of a funny story now, but at the time..it was maddening! When my daughter of 14-15 was repeatedly caught with drug paraphenalia, not going to school, taking off from home as she pleased…I was responsible from every agency you can imagine…DFS, Law enforcement and the school board. However, when I caught her with a make shift bong and I in turn poured that bong water over her head, she called the police! The police told me that I could be charged with battery! Keep in mind, I did not abuse my children, ever! My daughter would call the police and tell them I was abusing her if I grabbed her coat to keep her from taking off, yet I was responsible to make sure she wasn’t out running the streets. As a single mom, the system didn’t help me, nor did they help my children who would admit that as adults.

    After the age of roughly 6-8 years of age, a parent’s influence is no longer their primary influence, society is!

    All of my children have been cought shoplifting (I hate to say that, but it’s true!) My children have each heard me preach to them about being moral and ethical and respectful. Each of them has seen me forget to pay for something coming out of the grocery store (because it was hidden or on the bottom or something) and they have all seen me go back into the store to return or pay for that item…I’ve lived what I preach!

    I hate it when I see someone (that probably doesn’t have children), speak of how everything they do is the result of their upbringing!

    These children in this article, all need help! Every last one of them! Personally, I don’t think a child this young, should be charged as an adult for anything other than first degree murder under our current legal system.

    In addition, this article hasn’t addressed the whys of the story, there are way too many holes!

  • TANK

    kids today, huh? LOL! Kids yesterday, too. And kids tomorrow. A lot of bad people are born rotten…though not all of them.

  • Distingué Traces

    What the pictures remind me of is how dramatically different in size and strength kids that age can be. At 14 I still looked like a young prepubescent child — but these guys I would have guessed just from the pictures were at or near legal adulthood.

    When you have such a size differential in the rules-free context of an unsupervised playground, you’ll very quickly find yourself in lord-of-the-flies territory without strict supervision. The angry impulses that were nothing but a harmless tantrum in a boy six months ago can result in real violent harm in the same boy after his growth spurt — and he may not have the perspective to understand that.

    Kids need supervision — the small and big ones both!

  • Gary

    “kids today, huh? LOL! Kids yesterday, too. And kids tomorrow. A lot of bad people are born rotten…though not all of them”

    No . .not all of them, but what can You and I do to educate those kids about humanity? . . .What can You and I do to educate the educators who are essentially the daily caretakers of our children?

    I don’t know the answer . . .many of those kids who were just being kids grew up to be teachers, principals and members of your local school board. Perhaps the only way to break that cycle is to educate the educators.

  • Chase

    @Oaklander: Let five little pieices of dgo shit ram a hockey stick up your ass.

    I hope these kids are tired as adults and serve the longest term possible and I hope they get brutally raped with hockey sticks, reapeadedly. Jusitce!

  • Gary

    @Chase: and that’s exactly the wrong thing a person needs . . .revenge isn’t the answer.

    Revenge won’t fix society, it does nothing more than take an action towards an individual, or in this case individuals who won’t learn anything from those actions.

  • Gary

    Try them as adults, yes, but don’t have any illusions. Men go to prison damaged to begin with, and come out worse. . .Revenge on our part won’t solve anything. . .Adult prosecution coupled with compassion, counsel and education, perhaps a start.

  • michael

    A liberal solution to a problem.

    Here in Vancouver B.C. a gay man was beaten to death in a downtown park about 7 years ago. All but one of his assailants were underage, I believe that there were 4 of them. Those who committed the crime were just sitting home one Saturday evening and decided they would go out and beat up what they called “peeping Toms”. They packed their car with baseball bats, golf clubs and other items to be used as weapons. Well, they found a guy in the park and they did what they set out to do. They beat him mercilessly until he was dead.

    Here is what they got once they were convicted. The underage assailants, all of which were older than these 4, received 2 years detention, 1 year of it being house arrest. Yeah, for one year they played video games and watched TV in the comfort of their parents home. The only adult got 6 years, and was out in 4 and half on parole. None of these pieces of shit have apologized to the victims family, none of these have made any public displays of remorse. But in less time than it takes to get a university degree, these pieces of shit paid the price for taking a mans life. This is “liberal” side of the coin people.
    It would be lovely if there were a middle ground but thats just something we humans know little of. These kids will either be hung, or get nothing, but don’t count on intelligent justice to take hold here.

  • Gary

    @michael: Is there intelligent justice?. .let’s ask the victim what is just.

    When the victim is dead, what is just? where is the “middle ground”?

    These are all things that those of us who were victims of this type of crime think of on a daily basis . . .and there’s no answer . .truthfully . .never a cut and dry answer.

  • Gary

    All I know is that I was a victim of bullies, and that it went beyond a beating on trip home from the school bus. . .after school was nothing in comparison. . .school itself was a horror. . .I’m happy to be alive. . .and still, 40 some years later, the hurt never goes away. . .

    So really . .what is justice? For me perhaps justice is working with educators.

  • strumpetwindsock

    I also remember that murder, and yes, it seemed a infuriatingly low sentence… though they were only able to lay charges of manslaughter. If it had been a murder conviction he would have been in for 20 years without parole.
    I wasn’t aware he had just gotten out:

    I agree with Gary. In a violent crime like that there is often no way the justice system can truly pay back. The best we have is a system tempered by “risk of re-offending” and other factors.
    And while I sympathize with victims and their families, an eye for an eye simply does not work, and sadly the courts can often not give a sentence that truly satisfies (that’s not actually their job).

    But as bad as it is, it is better than the lynch mob mentality you hear from some. Michael, you probably remember that Winnipeg man who was decapitated two years ago. His family was calling for the schizophrenic guy who killed him to go to prison (as it is he will likely never get out of the institution he was sentenced to). It was heartbreaking, shameful and embarrassing to watch, and frankly I think the real shame was that they put them on TV in front of the court.

    As deep as their pain was, you simply can’t put someone on trial if he was truly out of his mind. That’s the break between the victim’s desire for satisfaction and the courts’ obligation to apply the law. It is far from perfect and it can certainly be improved, but it’s better than the alternative.

  • Jaroslaw

    To those who say “there is a reason for the juvenile justice system” yes, for burglary, victimless crimes – I always thought it was so that a youngster wouldn’t have a tarnished record that would ruin his life for a well, “juvenile prank.”

    Now, these guys are 14, 15 – old enough to have sex,(and in theory be a parent) drink, smoke, buy all kinds of things, decide which classes to take at high school – get a learners permit to drive a car.

    What hasn’t been mentioned in all this “fry them vs. their just children” rhetoric – how can they be “children” and listen to the screams and cries and look a the tears of the person they are jamming a broomstick into? And continue to do it?

    I don’t think the juvenile justice system was meant to overlook crimes of this magnitude and savagery. My opinion.

  • strumpetwindsock

    Actually the court took that into account. They are being charged as adults.
    That said, I disagree that it is as cut and dried as that. I am sure there are cases just as bad as this in which an adult process may not be appropriate.

    I doubt there are many child soldiers in the U.S. but I would think someone forced into that lifestyle should not be put into adult court even though he probably did things much worse than these guys.

    Again – that’s for a judge to decide, not us – and I don’t think it just comes down to how loud the screams are.

  • John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)


    I’ve worked with kids…all ages…rich and poor…it’s ALWAYS the parents fault.

    Being too NICE to the kids, is faulty..

    Never being THERE, is faulty…

    I could go on and on…

  • John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)


    DON’T have them if you CAN’T hack the responsibility. No one put a gun to your head to breed…you’re not living a war torn 3rd world country…you HAVE options…

    If YOU can’t cope, not ENOUGH cash…just say no sweetheart…our juvies and prisons are pretty full!

  • edgyguy1426

    @Jaroslaw: well put

  • Glen_RI

    Very sad. Sad for the victim who will bear the scars of this torment for years. Sad too for these tormentors who are themselves screwed up in the head and won’t get a good chance to learn to be healthy adults while they’re locked up in prison.

  • strumpetwindsock

    @John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
    I thought you were being facetious.

    Bad parents are the only cause of criminals? That’s

    You haven’t heard any stories about kids with a nasty meth problem turning on their parents. It’s not ALWAYS the parents; kids to pick up a bit of influence from school and gangs.

    I heard a documentary not too long ago about how a lot of kids join gangs because that’s the only avenue left to them to protect them selves from the racist attacks. If you’re oriental or native that seems to many like the only avenue of security.

    A good number of kids who have shown up in schools with a gun did it because of bullying, not because of their parents.

    Violence on television, video games, music?

    And some aberrations and mental problems have nothing to do with the parents either.

    I’m not excusing bad parents, but they sure aren’t the only cause of fucked up kids.

  • strumpetwindsock

    My second paragraph… I was going to say that holding parents responsible for all criminals is about as logical as saying that parents are responsible for their kids’ sexual orientation.

    If you have spent time around kids you know they have innate personalities that we can only influence so much.

  • TANK

    No, it’s not really. Because in many cases, parents are directly responsible for their children’s beliefs and criminal behavior due to how they’ve taught them to behave.

  • strumpetwindsock

    I believe I said that already.
    But they are not responsible in all cases.

  • John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)


    YES, which is why I WILL say again…

    WHY the FUCK have kids if you CAN’T control them??

    Ohh…my heart bleeds miss x chose to have ANOTHER kid out of wed lock in a crappy area…?? WTF?

    Oh kids join gangs??

    Erm, mummy, did you NEED to have that kid??

    Humans are decptively the most dishonest narcissitic species EVER known to man…

    I will NOT make allowances from some selfish prick who is so narcissitic they think society needs their gene floating around the place..


    Is THAT what YOU think???

    Good for you.

    Personally, I think…that kids DON’T ask to be born. It’s the adults selfish and narcisstic need to have them, the NEVER asked to be ALIVE.

    Now, gay people…lets see? My mum and dad are responsible for me being Gay??? Even IF I was genetically born that way??

    So you think gays are NOT genetically GAY?

    Like Parents are NOT genetically accounted for bring up a kid with SOCIAL issues?

    So kids..regardless of abuse with YOUR experience are just evil…

    Therefore NOTHING we can do as society thus as parents WILL make a difference…?

    So, are you a liberterian??

  • John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)


    Strump let me throw this one at you, so I can know to retreat from the discussion..

    I have a crazy, mental sister and fairly, her mentalness has being, lets say, ignited by my parents ‘poor parenting skills’…

    So do YOU think my parents are not to blame for her being a living and breathing bitch?

    Because, I GET that he insanity was inherent…BUT could it have been controlled with better parenting???

  • strumpetwindsock

    @John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):

    Actually no, I didn’t say any of that.

    I don’t absolve parents of all responsibility, but there are plenty of other things that make a person who they are.

    To say that parents mold their children’s minds out of nothing, and that they are the only influence, and therefore solely responsible is absurd – just as the notion that parents shape our orientation is absurd.

    Not only is it irrational, it is not legal. The worst the state can do is remove a child from the home.

    And nah, I’m not a libertarian.

  • strumpetwindsock

    @John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):
    I agree with you there, sure, and I agree that a lot of racism, homophobia and discrimination is learned from one’s family.

    But not all.

    Again, not all kids who get into gangs come from bad families, and not all kids who get hooked on bad drugs and get involved in crime do so because their parents weren’t doing their job.

  • John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)


    Did I SAY it was molded out of nothing???


    I just talked about factors….?!

    You’re closed off ideas to GOOD parenting is the kind of thing that scares me so much but because you would just let so much abuse pass unnoticed because “that kid has an attitude”, “that kid is always playing around..no good!” and “I’ve tried but he/she has so much ATTITUDE!”

    The worst a state can do??

    So what, you would’ve let OR friends STAY with our parents because it was worse….what I went through in terms of NO self esteem???


  • strumpetwindsock

    @John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):

    To hold parents 100 percent responsible for their children’s actions is essentially that – saying they have absolute control over how they turn out. The fact is it is not how it is; there is a great deal that we decide by ourselves that our parents have no influence on whatsoever.

    Many of the problems in our native community come from the fact children were taken AWAY from their parents and put in institutions. That’s one prime example of fucked up kids that has nothing to do with parents.

    Also, unless you’re going to give parental authority some real teeth (Deuteronomy 21, for example) there is only so much a parent can do.

    Then there’s this astonishing case:

    Notice that in this rape case the victim said nothing to his parents. Again, not every parent is made aware of what is going on.

  • John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)


    You’re generalising.

    I’ve worked with care kids and I agree they fuck UP.


    Because they are dumb, mean and lazy.

    The point I’m making is why do we always reach out to get the kids who are NOT that bad in need of help (gay parents, lefty parents etc) BUT we leave ALL the parents who abuse and abuse their kids?

    NOW take this rationalisation to…the economy.

    AGAIN we are letting the one’s who abuse and abuse the system get away with stuff BUT then pin pointing those who are trying to simply survive…

  • TANK


    But how is defending that in every and all case of a child committing a crime, it’s the parent’s fault? You’re creating this strawman out of statistical anomalies like you usually do. you’re extrapolating from an extreme statistical minority to make sweeping generalizations in support of your nonpoint once again. Most children who commit acts of violence, I contend, are to varying degrees influenced by their parents who either didn’t intervene when negative influences were causing such behavior, or instilled the beliefs which gave rise to it in the first place.

  • TANK

    who even

  • strumpetwindsock

    @John from England(used to be just John but there are other John’s):


    And I know some abusive and neglectful parents refuse help and ARE responsible.

    But there are some who are not negligent, but either not aware of or not legally able to stop their children’s actions. If a kid takes up with a bad crowd in his teens the parent does not always have the power to stop them. Kids DO leave home, go on assistance or stay with friends.

    Again, I don’t think I’m arguing against you because I agree the parents are responsible in many cases.

    I am just saying that is not ALWAYS the case, and there are other bad influences on kids from outside the home they can not always do anything about.

  • John from England(used to be just John but there are other John's)


    “But there are some who are not negligent, but either not aware of or not legally able to stop their children’s actions. If a kid takes up with a bad crowd in his teens the parent does not always have the power to stop them. Kids DO leave home, go on assistance or stay with friends.”

    Dude…I GET that…

    I did the same…

    Now if only my parents had spoken to me as a fellow human being instead of ‘their child or property’…? When I was an angry kid…

    That’s all I’m saying.

    Ypu reap what you saw.

  • Gary

    and again, I don’t know why I bother commenting on this site, because every thread seems to end up in a catfight between the same bunch.

    Never again.

  • bigjake75

    @Gary: you are right.

  • strumpetwindsock

    Sorry man, I thought I was agreeing with you.

    But I believe it’s all done now.

  • Thatdopechick

    wow i knoe the 2nd kidd he wne to mah old school,
    that;s so horrible they got wha they deserved .
    you dont do that to anyone thats juss plain creepy.

    poor kid i feel so bad for him :/

  • Thatdopechick

    wait nooo i knoe the last one
    not the 2nd one .

  • da phish

    I could have very easily been this victim!!!!
    I was bullied as a kid. But, luckily, I knew to scream, yell, bite, scratch, and even kick the bullies where it hurt!!! And I guess I was taught to tell an adult when someone did something wrong to me. And tell another adult if the first one didn’t listen. And my parents figured out if I was being bullied or something pretty darn quick…or I told them too. And we got to raise our children NOT TO BECOME VICTIMS!!!! The first episode of violence between these children should have been the last because the child should have told a responsible adult to end the situation. All children have to know that forcable sodomy is wrong, PERIOD!!! And children have to feel ok coming forth to the adults that are suppose to protect them, be it teachers, coaches, police or parents.
    I hate to put blame with the victim or his family, but he was raised to response passively to an awful situation, which allowed the abuse to continue.

    As to the punishment that fits these crimes, I feel it belongs in the adult system, but still remembering the age of the criminals

  • Eddie

    These boys are underage…. you might be breaking a law. I would put their parents up instead!

  • Rob Moore

    I hate it when things like this happen with underage victims and victimisers. I think it is wrong to move children into an adult court and prison simply because the crime strikes as so awful. Nothing is gained but much is lost. The boy who was raped is injured emotionally and needs good support to recover and get on with his life. The four boys who assaulted him can still be saved, but not by sending them into an adult system. They need as much or more support to recover and gain a sense of right and wrong. Instead of punishing them forever and ever, there is a good chance they can be salvaged and can contribute to a society that was injured by their actions.

  • Kyle

    BryBry! did you not read what they were accused of, he was a year older! And thats all you can think of, you are a sick and horrible person

  • Jaroslaw

    Rob Moore #110 – get on with his life? Apparently you didn’t bother to read any of the posts here. People who are abused are scarred forever. I sympathize with what you’re trying to say about underage victims & victimizers, but to suggest someone can just “get on with his life” suggests too much simplicity. Perhaps that is not what you meant.

    Also, re-read my post – the juvenile system is to save who we can. I have known people from my childhood that tortured animals, injected things into frogs and toads etc. and NONE of them grew up to be “normal” adults. Another poster said the parents are always at fault. Perhaps so, but that doesn’t change the fact that everyone cannot be salvaged.

    If the research proves me wrong, someone please post it here. I think what these boys did is sick, twisted cruel and they are most likely beyond help, sorry to say.

  • Va

    Wtf does “they are children” mean? I was a child and I don’t remember sexually assaulting others with broomsticks in their age.

    Sorry, but at 13 you are not exactly a baby.

  • Mark

    All 4 will get a nice large c*ck in prison. Hee hee.

  • carlitos

    man. i go to school with those kids. i knew Lee and R.J (Randall)were assholes but not Raymond. man lee was my friend and all… but I hope someone in jail shoves his dick up all theyre asses.

  • Casper O

    Rape is an adult crime, charge them like adults.



  • jayblack


    “even if they had killed the kid, not to charge them as an adult???” What planet do YOU live on?……….that’s part of the problem with the criminal justice system….a one size fits all approach. Watch what i tell u, the kids whose parents have money will get a light sentence and the parents who can’t afford fancy high priced lawyers….well they’re f*%@ed! (pun intended!0……..
    if a couple of them are tried as juveniles can’t the judge sentence them until the age of 21???But If there ever was a case to charge a 14 year old as an adult this would be one of them. Just a disturbing and hideous case all the way around. The kid is scarred for life, no matter how much counseling he gets.
    As for BryBry’s comments, I tend to also think it was an attempt at prison humor (because they are gonna have fun with those boys in jail, no doubt about it), but if he was implying anything else, than brybry needs help and may God have mercy on his soul.

  • njparent

    Yeah they will like him in Lockup. They will all get their payback being the cell block beeoch’s.

  • DrDichotomy

    I wasn’t using broom and hockey sticks ’til my mid twenties; God they grow up so fast these days.

  • staciegirlie17

    BryBry–such an off-color joke, hopefully you were joking.

    Those boys aren’t cute. Every last one of them is the face of evil itself. I hope they all get what’s coming to them. I don’t feel sorry for them, blah, blah. Also, it may not be the parent’s fault. Children are also influenced by those around them outside the sphere of their home life. All it takes is a good psych eval on the parents to see what type of folks they are before you start pointing the fingers.

  • staciegirlie17

    You can always start the payback procedures now. You know, a little tire slashing here, and a little tire slashing there….

  • Rose Bella

    I’m glad they will be charged as adults!

    I love the fact that they will be raped in jail multiple times. Maybe then they will be sorry.

  • kaitlyn taylor

    i hope that they all get out of trouble verey soon

  • swimmer

    the second one from the right could sodomize me with a hockey stick any day.

  • Some Guy

    It is not always the parents fault people. You can be the best parents in the world and your kids can still turn out as fuck ups. These boys chose to do what they did. THEY made the decision, not their parents.

    I only wish hanging was still legal in this country.

  • shya

    i went to this school, kids who go there said the news over exaggerated.

  • Xibalba

    I don’t find it surprising that a group of kids could do this to another one. People in groups work up the courage to do things that they would not normally do, despite possible thoughts of committing such crimes. Though I don’t know the whole story, it seems to me that, since the victim declared all of these boys responsible, it does not matter who did what to whom. The fact of the matter is that the crime was committed, and the perpetrators must be brought to justice (given ample evidence to support their involvement, of course). What they did is disgusting and will haunt that other kid for the rest of his life.

    I do believe that these boys should be tried as adults. Such a gruesome crime is not something to punish with a mere slap on the wrist– these boys need to know the severity of their actions, that what they did was reprehensible. Furthermore, even if they are tried as adults, they still could receive (attempted) psychological counseling if they are not already too far gone. Perhaps their home situations need to change or they need to be put with more fit guardians. Who knows what their future will be? Likely it will be an ugly one.

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