For a group that has historically lived outside mainstream expectations of how life is supposed to snap together like Legos to perfectly match the picture on the box, some gay men sure do love to label.
Since the arrival of online dating, many tend even more to reduce the awe-inspiring limitlessness of queer sexuality to a shopping list of check boxes.
Those roles, often broadcast for convenience sake — top, bottom, dom, sub, etc. — then have a way of coming back around to define more than a primary sexual preference. And that’s when things get weird, because wasn’t the whole idea to shatter gender roles in the first place?
We got to thinking about this again after a Reddit thread called I’m a ‘masc, dom, top’ who needs to be held came to our attention.
It begins:
I’ve always been typically closed and conservative about showing my emotions and I really feel it has stunted me as a man and as a lover.
But here’s the catch: the gay guys I find myself getting with love it. I find they interpret my stoicism as a sign of manly strength and self-discipline…When we cuddle I am always big spoon and I imagine they feel like they’re behind a stone fort, safe and protected and loved. Sometimes I wish I could be more emotionally vulnerable and open to enjoy being on the receiving end of those kinds of moments.
So, does anyone else feel like they’re emotionally repressed, a big spoon crying out to be little spooned?
Some merely offered logistical advice:
Ask to be the little spoon? Or use your manly stoic persona to your advantage and be like “No! You listen here, I’m the fucking little spoon this time. Am I understood?”
While others shared their own perspective, bringing up how physical size can also feel limiting during intimate encounters:
I’m in the opposite situation where you are in. I’m 5’5, always the smaller guy, always assumed to bend over and receive pounding (not that I’m complaining, but I wanna do some pounding too), always assumed to be submissive, the little spoon, the “boy”, the less “masc” guy, etc. It’s fun to be the “little” guy and the “receptive” one, but I also wanna hold my “big boy”, let them know I wanna top too.
At the end of the day, it seems that all anyone wants is to give and receive love in all its varied forms — to create and hold space to nurture, heal, experience ecstasy and feel connection.
So what is it we think we have to prove to ourselves?
Another commenter wrote:
Getting too into the top/bottom roles is very limiting. It’s just an activity you do in bed. It has nothing to do what you need emotionally…And there’s been many a guy who’s topped me and fell into my arms and needed to be held a while after.
Do you feel cornered by how others perceive you sexually or even by your own preferences? Sound off in the comments…
Giancarlo85
Oh great. I can’t wait for the fem bashing to start by the usual sources.
I am androgynous and vers. Whatever feels right with my boyfriend. People ought to not limit themselves.
Dan Steele
We all know exactly what we like…where’s the problem?
Stephen Meeks
Many do, yes
Ian Goldwyn
Bruno Fraire Lastra Robbie Duncan 😀 😀 😀
Daniel Bujes
We do and all should. Gender roles are a social construct and become an issue with bullying and general human interaction. You constantly see the phrases masc4masc or no femmes as though those traits are considered bad and inappropriate and of less worth. This is outright misogyny hidden under preferences. Those individuals are actively dismissing and shaming the opposite.
Conversely the gender roles that are seen as masculine create issues of self acceptance and the inability to be vulnerable and connect emotionally, as mentioned in the article, because emotions are a feminine trait. I think Emma Watson said it best in “How sad is it that men aren’t allowed to feel, to be human” or something very similar.
Given we do all have preferences and having them is fine. But how we go about discussing what we like doesn’t have to be antagonistic, even for “efficiency” on apps. Also roles of top and btm are less gender roles and more sexual stimulus based.
Rikard Pearson
Isn’t that the definition of gay?
Ladbrook
Anyone remember the pre-internet days? You know, back when we’d all head out to the local bar in search of love or fun? We’d end up going home with someone for no other reason than “mutual attraction.” There was no talk of Top or bottom or of who was going to do what to whom and for how long.
We’d awkwardly kiss, remove each other’s clothing, one piece at a time, and then fall into bed… neither knowing a damn thing about what might happen next, and of course, that was part of what made it fun. Sometimes you’d receive, sometimes he would, and sometimes you’d just take turns. Everyone was versatile. No labels, no roles, no expectations…
Fun times.
Michael Knight
If ur comfortable with ur masculinity then u can be the small spoon
Gerald GeeLocke Panuthos
yup. most definitely!
Derrick M. Miller
I just think people are confused in this new age of Sexual/gender freedom
Jess Collins
Just because your masculine or fem does not mean your a top or bottom. Ive seen and know the most manly masculine bottoms n most fem tops.
Its a preference not based off those.
Some men want to be held or feel vulnerable people just assume things that are not true
Giancarlo85
@Daniel Bujes: Many on this site proclaim that masculinity is far superior to femininity, and they despise feminine gay men with a passion as they assault their manhood. It’s not just misogyny though. It’s internalized homophobia. They will hate on other gay men. They project their own insecurities onto others while proclaiming some kind of “masculine pride”.
Glücklich
Use your words. If there’s something you want just say, “Do you think you might want to try…?” or “Is___ something you’d be open to?”
@Giancarlo85:
Hi Giancarlo. Long time no comment (I think). You must’ve been busy.
Scribe38
When gay men say or do things like this it sort of pisses me off. I’m verse, I like topping more than bottoming, but can go on spurts of bottoming with the right guy. I can weld and work on cars; and I can bake and work professionally as a nurse. The conflict I find myself in is with tops, almost to the point where I will now only date bottoms or other verse dudes. I don’t have a submissive personality and this seems to rub tops the wrong way. Just because I bottom don’t take the attitude that you make all the decisions,that I can’t handle myself, or I’m the girl in our relationship. I had one dude freak when I held him as the big spoon. His masculinity couldn’t even take a penis nesting against his butt in a none sexual way. wtf?
@Giancarlo85: those are the as*holes to avoid on this site and in relationships.
Scribe38
@Scribe38: *non* not none
Louie Mars
I’ve always hated the labels, and the question: Are you a top or bottom?…I am a man who wants sex with another man, no roles required.
ddean
When my husband holds me I feel like I’m in heaven. Thankfully he likes to be the big spoon. Being held is so good for you or holding on.
Douglas Kovacs
wish i could find someone like that! applications being accepted…
Garrett
@Ladbrook: Wow. So true! I hate the whole bottom/top thing. I’ve always been an authentic versatile, and it’s hard to meet others who feel as I do. The last time I met a “versatile” online, he turned out to be a hardcore bottom. He said he uses “versatile” so that no one confuses him as being a “whore.” Seriously, WTF does that even mean?!?!?!?!
Robin Mckennon
Do what feels good and makes you happy.
Bauhaus
“Do you feel cornered by how others perceive you sexually or even by your own preferences?”
Nope, which is the advantage of being a gay man. My sexuality has liberated me in spirit, and also in and out of bed. I don’t have sexual hang-ups and I don’t have gender role hang-ups. Many of the paths I’ve taken have been unconventional. I haven’t given it a second thought, never second guessed my choices. For me, being a gay man and fully alive isn’t about [monotonous] roles, it’s about exploration, expression, confidence, self-approval (not needing others stamp of approval) and living life on my terms.
Yet another quote from Mae West:
“I’ll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure.”
DimAsAnEmber
I don’t think so. I’m much more “feminine,” than my ideal type of man. But if I can’t protect him in the way he protects me, then I’d find ways to reciprocate. If he wanted me to hold him, I’d love that! The reasoning is weird, but for me, it would be like “paying him back” for being as strong as he is during the day. The stereotype of the masculine/feminine guy would be great for some people, but it feels a little two-dimensional. And the lines are never that clear in reality, but I’m more than sure that people on both sides want to protect and be protected by the other, if not in different ways.
Masc Pride
“Getting too into the top/bottom roles is very limiting.”
I wonder if this commenter would appreciate someone criticizing what he likes. What is it we think we have to prove to ourselves when we decide to psychoanalyze and criticize other people’s sex lives? Totally disagree with the first statement too. Gays just created a different set of constructs for the LGB community, which is ironically evidenced by certain parts of Dan’s post. True, they may be a bit different from popular hetero constructs, but they’re still definite constructs nonetheless. Maybe some guys are playing into “heteronormative” ways of going about sex and relationships. So what? If that’s what they like, I don’t see why the rest of the community always has to chime in on these things. Maybe they’re not interested in “shattering gender roles”; maybe they just want to f*ck. Again, totally their business and their business only. If it’s not going on in your bed, butt out.
Xzamilio
Holy shit, I just wrote something about this two days ago lol
http://shallowvoices.blogspot.com/2015/07/long-rant-masculine-and-feminine-gays.html
There is a tendency the gay community for us to use stringent labels and then confine ourselves to them
jwtraveler
In a gay relationship, both partners have the same gender. Hence, no gender roles. People in relationships may take on a variety of roles regarding their household, financial situation, sexuality and family. But again, there are no gender roles when both people have the same gender.
Captain Obvious
Reddit is by far the whiniest site in the universe.
aliengod
@Masc Pride: Well said.
SonOfKings
It’s good to be flexible, but acting is sort of like the acting profession. The range of roles you can credibly play are, in part, determined by the physicality you can muster. Little guys can dominate and top IF they are bring something eixtra to the table (muscles, attitude, etc.) to make up for their lack of overall size. And once you get typecast in a certain role, you can’t just switch up on somebody abruptly. You’ve got to do it gradually. And some guys you can only show one side of yourself to. You may need to find another guy to experiment with if you want to try something different.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Ah ha! There is the self righteous arrogance! Self constructed concepts? Ones you endorse because you yourself live by the “masc” label and proclaim pride. You are the biggest hypocrite on here.
@aliengod: And there is the parrot!
Giancarlo85
And it’s funny someone who decries labels uses one as a username on here. What a pile of bullshit.
aliengod
@Masc Pride: Uh oh! Looks like you’ve gotten someone’s panties in a wad. She’s so easy.
Giancarlo85
@aliengod: The parrot repeats what his master says.
Always has to repeat the same endless flow of crap.
AtticusBennett
dear gays with ‘that problem’ – it’s called internalized homophobia, and you’ll never be happy until you recognize it in yourself and work to overcome it. refuse to do that and you’ll end up like those wimpy anonymous-internet commenters whose lives are so worthless and devoid of joy and human interaction that you’ll end up wasting years of your life “railing against stereotypical effeminate OUT gays” on the internet – while the gays you insist you’re nothing like are out there, living lives.
Masc Pride
@aliengod: She’s also batshit crazy. Hates to see masc anything, but scroll up and see how that nut feels totally entitled to state “I’m androgynous, I’m androgynous, I’m androgynous” over and over and over. Perfect example of another LGB construct. By dictating who’s “allowed” to be openly proud of their identity and whose pride should be contained because it may make others feel inferior, this community has totally empowered and encouraged a bunch of spoiled brats.
muscl954
@Ladbrook: I remember those days well, but haven’t experienced those feelings in a long time.
muscl954
@Scribe38: I dated a guy for a while who HAD to be the alpha. He wouldn’t even allow me to cradle his head against my chest. THAT was to submissive for him.
AtticusBennett
@Masc Pride: it’s not the fault of anyone else that you never had the orbs to come out, nor are they to blame for the fact that your family doesn’t like gay people, or transgender people.
you could always show yourself and actually show us how “openly proud of your identity” you are, but the reality is you’re not proud, you’re closeted. and you’re not “masc”, at all. just common and dull.
but you should still show yourself online, make a youtube video and empower other dull, trans-hating right-wing gays!
Ithryn
I tend to be the masculine guy in my relationships, the top, and the big spoon- largely as a result of dating more feminine men. There have been occasions where I’ve spontaneously become the little spoon, and you know what? It was great! I was sharing an intimate moment with my partner, and I’m secure enough in myself not to spoil the moment by making a big deal out of performative gender roles.
Scribe38
@muscl954: Yeah dudes like that are a waste of time. Any dude who can’t recognize that you are also male aren’t worth the time. Guess I just got spoiled by my first who was a jock, but liked to bottom as much as top. He liked my assertive and nurturing sides. Some tops just don’t get it.
Chris
There’s this thing called “communication.” Or as someone said in an earlier post: “Use your words.” If you want to be held, say so. If you want to top, for a change, say so. Is it really that difficult? Sheesh!!!!
bottom250
I am a proud effeminate bottom and I cherish my role.
Glücklich
Surely this can’t be Queerty. “Masc” and “Gender Roles” are in the headline and war hasn’t yet broken out in here? Only forty-one comments so far at 1800 PDT? I expected at least triple that!
Saint Law
@Masc Pride: Your constant attempts to portray your poor embattled masculinity as being under siege from all sides by the sissy boys isn’t very, well, masculine.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: Every fucking post you make is how you don’t approve of feminine gay men and how proudly masculine you are. You are a hypocrite. I don’t say I am androgynous in every post, but just about every post of yours is a condemnation feminine gay men and trans people. You are a self serving self righteous egotistical bastard.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: By the way, I am a guy you dumb ignorant crazy nut.
jwtraveler
One of the best things about being gay is that we don’t have to follow any socially-prescribed gender roles, in or out of bed. The best way to define your roles in a relationship is whatever works best for you and your partner. It’s ABSOLUTELY NOBODY ELSE’S BUSINESS!
Doug
I’ve done a lot of experimenting and after many years feel like I really enjoy being the “fucker” in bed (I’ve also been told, ahem, that I’m pretty good at it too). I can understand the guy in the lead article, because just because I like to do the screwing that doesn’t mean I’m not vulnerable. It seems to me that a lot of gay men treat these “top and bottom” labels like male and female roles back in the 40’s and 50’s.
I’m curious… are most guys in serious relationships versatile? I envy a lot of “bottom” guys I’m with, as I never seemed to enjoy being porked the way they do…
bottom250
@Doug: Hugs be proud of the top you are, sweetheart.
Billy Budd
I am very masculine and tend to bottom more than top. I loose my erection when I put the condom. That is the price we all have to pay in order to be safe.
I totally repect fems, especially if they are good tops.
Glücklich
@Billy Budd:
I’m with you on condoms. Mainly a top here and can’t remember the last time I used one. I fuck only within a vetted, trusted group of about four guys aside from Mr. Glücklich.
Glücklich
@Doug:
Married (open) and top with my husband. Rarely bottom outside of the marriage. I don’t hate it – it’s not painful per se – but I don’t get any physical enjoyment out of it. I like the idea of it, enjoy it when whoever’s topping me gets off on it, but would just as soon not get fucked. I’ve tried toys, fingers, alone and with a partner and anything back there just does nothing for me. Even rimming, which I love *to do* only tickles me and not in a good way.
Giancarlo85
Using a condom doesn’t take away from the pleasure. If it does, I don’t think some are doing it right. Always use a condom. You can never know who you can trust.
Raphael
These kinds of gays are pathetic. Fuck gender roles.
Clark35
@Giancarlo85: Agreed.
Joe Clark
No different to people who say they are not gay
I have a girl & boy friend so what s the fuss about roles
James Yeary
ya think ????
CaliKyle
@Masc Pride: Could not agree with your comment more. The trend as of late has been vers guys characterizing exclusive tops or bottoms as “boring” in bed because they don’t switch hit. Furthermore, they claim (and reference dubious research as support) that exclusive tops suffer from internalized homophobia and are far more likely to be bisexual or have sex with females. I have been an exclusive top since I was a teenager. I bottomed for an older guy a few times when I was 15 and realizing it did nothing for me sexually I told him I’d only continue to sleep with him if I fucked him and not the other way around. He expressed immense relief and said that the only reason he was topping me was so I’d top him. It was such a strange situation to me at the time since he was my introduction to gay sex. In any event, I’ve only topped since then with zero desire to bottom. I’m as gay as a guy can be, not bisexual, only had sex with a handful of women in college mostly because I was rushing a frat and feared being outed at that time (came out following year), and am not remotely homophobic. Although I’ve had sex with straight guys and a few overtly masc guys my overwhelming preference always has been and continues to be men who appear and behave more stereotypically gay: effeminate, emotionally expressive, thin, pretty, nurturing. I have never understood top men who were attracted to other very masc men but I don’t pass judgment on them or condemn them. Nor do negatively perceive or characterize vers guys. Bottom shaming is something that bothers me nearly as much as it does bottoms because fem exclusive bottoms are the men I’m most attracted to and with whom I fall in love. Some of us can be our own worst enemies; I don’t hear anyone passing judgment on what kind of man or woman straight people desire, we need to extend each other the same courtesy as gay men. Stop disrespecting bottoms and unfairly characterizing tops as bisexual homophobes, it’s absolutely ridiculous, some kind of strange, hateful vers plot?
distantobserver
I believe that the motivation is more important from the result in this topic. It is totally different if you want masculine men because you are just sexually attracted to them and this is fine and nobody has the right to change your (perhaps exclusive) sexual preference towards masculine men. And it is totally different if you want masculine men out of personal insecurity and not out of pure sexual attraction.
It’s been a decade since we entered the era of sexual specificity and some people can’t understand this. In the previous decade, it was fashionable to be vers because people met in public places like bars/cafes and they didn’t have the freedom to negotiate their sexual tastes, so they compromised. When two people met at a bar, they didn’t have the freedom to discuss their specific sexual interests. You just liked his/her appearance and/or personality and then sex followed. Now we have the freedom to monitor if we are sexually compatible without letting people with other tastes know ours. With the advent and development of internet, we have the freedom to specify our tastes without making any compromises for this.
Mercurical Memo
@CaliKyle: dude, I agree with 95% of your post. Personally have been a bottom since I was 16 and have loved it since. Have topped maybe once or twice and depending on the guy it’s been good. The best lover I ever had was this tall, bulky American with a dong to match. He was like a friendly giant and I think I fell in love with him for that. He was just super sweet, pretty eyes, pretty lips, like I said, tall, bulky, intimidating stature but what came out was totally different.
I don’t know what my mannerisms are. It depends on the day and it depends on the person. I find that in my case gender has always been subscribed. A roomful of angry, radical lesbians will see me as nothing more than a man, regardless that the homophobic straights will tag me as a ‘girl’ and would mercilessly bully me for that. So I have let others decide in regards to my gender and take it from there.
Now as for exclusive masculine tops as homophobic, bisexuals and/or heterosexual and quantitative research, it exists. American Scientific actually ran an article on said research. I believe the title was ‘Angry, White, Straight, Male seeks that same’ no word of a lie, the title of the piece was that. Another article that correlates to that piece from American Scientific was about gender roles and showed that in fact bottoms and versatile a will described themselves as gay as opposed to exclusive tops. You should check this articles, they are available on line.
Stefano
Are masculine men have to be muscled? The majority of heterosexual guys are not muscled and they are masculine. I think it is more a question of attitude than having muscles. So why gay men who “declare” that they are masculine tend to be muscled?
Giancarlo85
@CaliKyle: You are pretty much a good reason why I would never date someone that is exclusively a top. Goodness, you don’t want people to generalize you, yet you generalized vers guys and basically did the same to feminine guys.
Good god… Some people here are woefully insecure.
bottom250
Sweethearts lets not let others decide who we are I believe it is up to each individual to decide who they are. We cannot let the community rip us apart based on being masculine or effeminate we are all cogs in the gay community and if one is not feeling in place it us up to the re4st of us to prop them up. So my beauties stay strong. I am a proud Queen.
Masc Pride
@CaliKyle: “Some of us can be our own worst enemies; I don’t hear anyone passing judgment on what kind of man or woman straight people desire…”
QFT. As far as the masc/top-bashing, I’ve noticed there’s generally a lot of selective outrage within the LGB community. As you can see in here alone, the same members that will go absolutely apeshit if they believe anything even remotely unfavorable has been said about their identities don’t hesitate to taunt, verbally attack and pass judgment on others.
I love other masculine guys. Fem/masc pairings are obviously closer to what heteros do. However, it’s totally their right and doesn’t concern me at all. More power to them. I’m bi, so when I want to experience femininity, I date women. The masc/masc dynamic is what does it for me. I feel like gay relationships are like having a best buddy with an added physical component. Watch sports together, work out together, go out for shots together…and then screw each other’s brains out.
We all view this differently, which makes this push to dictate how we should be having sex and/or set up our relationship dynamics even more silly. Now we have to be activists obsessed with breaking “gender norms” while we’re having sex? REALLY? Where does it end? lol
Glücklich
@bottom250:
That’s MISTER Sweetheart to you!
Masc Pride
@CaliKyle: BTW, totally ignore your new stalker. She’s consumed with an obsession for opposing anything I say (strictly for the sake of opposing) and is only being hostile towards you because you agreed with me on something.
Masc Pride
@Stefano: No, masc guys don’t have to be muscled. There are lots of masculine bears and chubs (who totally don’t seem to care about their appearance at all). Though I don’t think your correlation is totally unfounded because lots of guys (both gay and str8) have an obsession with being bigger, which involves hypertrophy as opposed to just toning or leaning out. A masc GB guy would probably be more interested and more committed to the dedication it takes than an effeminate guy would be. However Davey Wavy is a rather fem guy who’s pretty muscled (although I believe he’s also a personal trainer and probably maintains himself mostly for that reason).
Billy Budd
@Masc Pride: Davey Wavey is a living contradiction. He is all muscled up but when he opens his mouth…. he is very girly.
Giancarlo85
@Masc Pride: What is the LGB community? No such thing so stop with that made up acronym.
“As you can see in here alone, the same members that will go absolutely apeshit if they believe anything even remotely unfavorable has been said about their identities don’t hesitate to taunt, verbally attack and pass judgment on others.
Very interesting. Is this a self observation? Because you always go apeshit when people question your lack of integrity.
“I’m bi, so when I want to experience femininity, I date women. The masc/masc dynamic is what does it for me.”
More unnecessary verbose. Feminine men are still men.
“I feel like gay relationships are like having a best buddy with an added physical component. Watch sports together, work out together, go out for shots together…and then screw each other’s brains out. ”
LOL. Do you have lasting relationships? Watch sports together, work out together and go for drinks? Are you sure you’re not mixing up fuck buddies with actual relationships?
“Now we have to be activists obsessed with breaking “gender norms” while we’re having sex? REALLY? Where does it end? lol”
For somebody who is so concerned about not dictating norms, you sure are telling others what they should or shouldn’t do. If activists are saying that, why is it your business? Let them be.
@Masc Pride: Again, your disparaging attitude is evident. I’m a guy. You can either accept that fact or stop talking. By the way, nice one with the misgynoist behavior. Do you call other gay guys women because you think women are inferior? I don’t think you need to answer that. Your misgynoist and homophobic posts are enough evidence.
Feminine guys are far more secure and have more integrity than you. They are more “manly” than you too.
Masc Pride
@Billy Budd: IDK. I never really equated muscle with masculinity. The male form is naturally more muscular. Davey is a personal trainer, so it’s kind of his job to stay muscled up regardless of his demeanor.
bottom250
@Glücklich: MMMM Sorry Sir Mister Sweetheart.
bottom250
A hard top is good to find.
Giancarlo85
@bottom250: Must every post you make be about sex?
bottom250
@Giancarlo85: Sweetheart darling I love sex and and I won’t apologize for being one hot bottom.
Giancarlo85
@bottom250: Right.
I really have nothing else to say about that. I’m not asking you to apologize for anything. I guess we have totally different priorities.
bottom250
Sweetie never apologize for the gay man you are. Be proud of the fabulous gay man you are.
frshmn
I’m not a lesbian, but it seems to me that most lesbian relationships have clear gender roles (Ellen/Portia) (Rosie/her wives), however most gay relationships feel the need to have to project some sort of equality and hide the fact if one is clearly the more dominant over the other.
CaliKyle
@Mercurical Memo: After reading the first paragraph of your post I honestly started to wonder if I knew you. Were you at Stanford mid 2000s? I’ve perused many of the studies that claim gay men who id as exclusive tops tend to have internalized homophobia, avoid id-ing as gay, and are angry, self-loathing. It’s hard to know how accurate these studies are and how meaningful their sample populations were. I can only speak for myself and state unequivocally that I never have had an issue with being gay, have never denied it when asked. In fact, I’ve always loved being a gay man probably because I simply can’t imagine being anything else and I feel privileged to be attracted to and love men and to be the object of male desire and love myself. Not even in my darkest adolescent days did I ever wish I wasn’t gay. Perhaps a significant number of self identified exclusive tops are more homophobic and bisexual than other gay men, but neither of those terms describes the top men I personally know, including myself. Refusing to bottom again after trying it a few times 15 years ago doesn’t make me a sexual bully, a homophobe, sexually selfish, less gay or automatically more masc than vers or bottoms, nor does it mean I suck in bed – I do literally but not figuratively. These are the kinds of descriptors that are routinely assigned to tops now and the trend is as offensive as bottom shaming. Gay men and misguided researchers need to stop attempting to pathologize or otherwise impugn those of us who only want to be one or the other. One of the most biased and from my experience utterly inaccurate conclusions I’ve read lately is the notion that top and bottom are meaningless now because all gay men are actually vers, and those who aren’t, well, there’s something wrong with them, especially the tops. The judging and arrogant assumptions that are perpetrated as scientifically supported facts have gone to far and I suspect don’t accurately reflect the sex lives of many if not most gay men.
CaliKyle
@Giancarlo85: I’m not sure why you got the impression I was harshly over generalizing vers or bottom guys. Nowhere in my post did I make such generalizations. The point I attempted to make was that based on many studies, articles and online commentary about gay sexual preferences, exclusive tops are unfairly and perhaps erroneously being characterized in very negative, dysfunctional terms. As a gay man and an exclusive top I take great offense to the suggestion that my sexual desires and behavior are somehow abnormal and the result of internalized homophobia, self loathing, and an unwillingness to admit my sexual orientation. None of these could be further from the truth where I’m personally concerned, nor are they descriptive of other tops with whom I’m more than passingly acquainted. There’s an effort being made to stop bottom shaming and rightly so, it always made me cringe as it should us all. But there should now be an equal effort made to cease and desist from attacking top guys as angry, dysfunctional men who hate themselves for being gay. This increasingly prevalent assessment is as much a form of shaming as it is when bottom guys are unfairly disparaged for their sexual preferences.
CaliKyle
@Masc Pride: Although I’ve been with bromos and straight guys who were curious enough to give head or wanted to know what it felt like to be fucked, Ive always been most attracted to gay guys who are more physically delicate and what’s considered effeminate. They are the ones that turn me on the most, with whom I get along best in a romantic relationship and fall in love. There has been one notable exception to this, when I was in college with a straight guy. We started out as close friends but after I moved into our frat house sophomore year – he was one year ahead – our relationship went from platonic to sexually and emotionally intimate for the next two years plus. He broke up with his gf a few months after we became physically involved but continued to sporadically hook up with girls casually. Most people I mention this relationship to insist he must have been bisexual not straight and I know for a fact that opinion was shared by our brothers after they realized what was going on. I guess I don’t get what exactly defines someone as bisexual but I assumed it was someone who regularly found himself attracted to other guys and able to fall in love with same sex. The guy I was with had no same sex experience before me and claims he hasn’t since our relationship ended. He once referred to me and our relationship as an anomaly. Would you consider a guy who has a single same sex relationship to be bisexual? I would have definitely preferred him to be gay or even actively bi because I wanted the relationship to continue but I never felt him to be anything other than straight with perhaps an asterisk. Not that it ultimately matters in the grand scheme of things but I’m curious to hear your opinion as a bi guy, if you don’t mind.
drivendervish
When I first came out I don’t remember having any idea if I would be a top or a bottom but in many ways my first gay sex encounter defined this as I happened to hook up with a confirmed bottom. Prior to this encounter I was unaware that I was any larger than other guys. This particular partner was effusive about my size and technique and I found that I became “popular” for these attributes. I had always felt as if I didn’t fit in and was socially awkward so I loved the attention I received. It took quite a while before I realized how shallow this attention was and recognize that it wasn’t leading to the long-term relationship I craved. Subsequently I tried to bottom on many occasions but for a variety of reasons I was never able to feel comfortable and enjoy it. I was never able to try it with someone I just met but if I had been seeing somebody for a while and we were in a committed relationship I would give it a try. Although there was a lot of physical pain I think the main problem was emotional because I was unable to allow myself to feel vulnerable. For a long time I wished that I could do both roles and I was jealous of guys that could. I would go out to bars and meet guys I wanted to be with but there was always this fear that we would go home together and he would want to top me. Lastly, my interests and attitude has always been masculine. In many ways the only gay thing about me is whom I choose to sleep with. But all the commenters above who say the roles don’t matter is total bullshit. A gay man, just like a straight women do not want to be topped by a feminine acting man. They want strong, aggressive men that are physically larger and stronger and are able to take charge of a situation. That doesn’t mean the man can’t be sensitive and it doesn’t mean that feminine acting guys aren’t getting laid. But the fantasy is about the strong, masculine, aggressive man. Nobody fantasizes about a feminine sounding and acting man that is physically diminutive who has to be encouraged to take charge.
Giancarlo85
@CaliKyle: And what are these so called “studies and articles”? You haven’t posted any. Do us all a favor and keep your speculation to yourself.
“As a gay man and an exclusive top I take great offense to the suggestion that my sexual desires and behavior are somehow abnormal and the result of internalized homophobia, self loathing, and an unwillingness to admit my sexual orientation.”
I never said that, but you’re quite to characterize and generalize others.
Your rants are exactly why I would NEVER date someone that is exclusively top. You have a great deal of insecurity in justifying yourself. You’re not the center of the world.
CaliKyle
@Giancarlo85: Your replies to my posts have nothing to do with whatever views I express or opinions I share and everything to do with you having a problem with top guys. I never mentioned anything about what “said” nor did I characterize you in any particular way. Know why? I have no fucking idea who you are or what your views are so I’m baffled as to why you’re reading my posts as if they are directed at you personally. As for your other bits of nonsense barely worthy of response but what the hell: Everyone generalizes to some degree. Basketball players are tall, Goldendoodles are sweet natured dogs, peaches taste sweet. Doesn’t mean generalizations are 100% accurate, but they often are based on some degree of consensus. If you perceived my posts as “rants” then that indicates to me you are unclear as to what rant means. Look it up. Your accusations that I am greatly insecure and think of myself as “the center of the world” are not only false but beyond presumptuous given that you know absolutely nothing about my character.
Giancarlo85
@CaliKyle: You have nothing to back yourself up as I suspected. You want nonsense? Look at what you post for a change. You make a lot of long reaching assumptions about others. Generalizations are often stupid and foolish. Maybe learn better if you don’t want people looking at your posts as stupid.
CaliKyle
@Giancarlo85: I’m not feeding you anymore, troll.
jackmailey121
Like a gay takes a large amount of assurance as well as value of your respective sexual intercourse alignment. Gays confront a great deal issues in search of their privileges. Creating a companion isn’t as simple as you may think. Heterosexuals find it tough in order to envision what gay men proceed through. You do not need in order to be able for you to help approach a person who allows you to embarrass myself or perhaps declined right immediately soon just once learning that you simply were completely drastically inappropriate.http://www.gaydatingsolutions.com/