One writer’s treatise on what gender-neutral fashion gets wrong has hit Reddit as oh-so-right.
In a recent essay for The Walrus, writer Mel Woods observes that most big-name brands’ gender-neutral clothing lines can be reduced to what Woods calls the “dysphoria hoodie,” i.e. “an impenetrable mass devoid of emotion, shape, or gender … something that hides your body and gender expression from wandering—and potentially misunderstanding—eyes.”
Woods continues:
How about we take this to the next level?
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As a non-binary person, I find it unfortunate to see the only clothes marketed to me come from the haute couture dysphoria hoodie line. Maybe I, an ostensibly gender-neutral person, want to wear hard pants or shirts or dresses or literally anything besides androgynous, shapeless hoodies. Just because something isn’t explicitly for “men” or “women” doesn’t mean it has to be boring as sin. I’m definitely in the “dismantle the gender binary” camp, and a good place to start would be imagining more clothing sections than what we’ve got now: “men,” “women,” and “hoodies.”
And Woods proposed a better solution: “doing away with categories altogether by designing clothes that fit a variety of bodies rather than imposing a third ‘gender-neutral’ categorization on consumers.”
When someone posted that article the r/lgbt subreddit, Redditors had a lot to say—and along similar lines. For example:
“It’s like a meme I saw recently. Most clothing lines’ ‘gender-neutral’ section look like dystopian rags; meanwhile, a lot of people who dress neutrally tend to look more like Gonzo. Obviously not true for everyone, but definitely true for a good many of us.”
“Ah, ‘gender-neutral’ clothing, or, as I like to call it, men’s clothing in the ugliest beige they could find. I wish the fashion industry would just give us more options for different body shapes (like traditionally masculine clothing for people with wide hips, for example) instead of trying to sell us the same old sh*t under a different label.”
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“We really do need more options for all body shapes. An entire re-haul of the industry! Winter is the only time I enjoy shopping, because ‘oversized’ jumpers in the women’s sections, or. even better, jumper dresses, are the only way I get to buy something colorful that fits my 6’5” ‘oversized’ body.”
“Gender-neutral should still be the fashions and styles we know and love, just with expanded fits so all the bodies can wear them!”
“I don’t really need clothing companies to try to imagine what gender-neutral fashion is. There is no singular definition because there are as many ways to do it as there are humans. ‘Gender-neutral’ isn’t some third gender with a defined aesthetic, and it never will be.”
“If more clothing were size-inclusive, it would also be gender-inclusive. There is plenty of variety in existing styles of clothing, and I have the ability to style it myself.”
Another Reddit user, meanwhile, had a tangential but perhaps not unrelated recommendation:
“I’m begging the fashion industry, please bring back capes. They should never have gone out of fashion in the first place, but they can still make a return.”
Related:
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Jim
People people clothing’s “gender” is arbitrary.
It’s not ordained by god or nature.
ShaverC
Non-binary people demand clothing that doesn’t judge them and big fashion is not doing anything about it!
still_onthemark
Most of these people don’t actually have a problem with clothing, they have a problem with inactivity and overeating.
nm4047
because there isn’t a commercial market for it. If there is, some non-binary person needs to set up a website and start knocking em out.
KissBananaPeels
I am not queer I am gay…
This is just stupid and tiring…the LGB (because T is not a sexuality) community has been co-opted by cos play non-binary individuals…
Magnus1999
+1
still_onthemark
I wish my mom (a Korean War veteran) could see this, she’d say “Jeepers! These people should buy a sewing machine and learn to make their own clothes.” She made that look easy, though. I always wanted to try it and have never got around to it.
This article indicates there’s a market for gender-neutral clothing, so I hope at least one of these folks will learn to sew and start a business. Oh no, of course one loon thinks it would be “better” if clothing companies stopped making men’s and women’s clothing altogether and instead made everything undifferentiated for everyone. Right, the entire world clothing industry will love that idea, just wait a year or so for them to retool everything. Sheesh.
Also, clothing tends to fit better if one loses a few pounds. (I hope I didn’t make anyone faint by saying this.) This article seems to imply there’s SOME overlap between the gender-neutral community and the plus-size community. 🙂
Kangol2
This is the second time you’ve made a fat-shaming/plus-size shaming comment. Clearly it’s a fixation. Do you have a weight challenge? If so perhaps getting help for it rather than projecting onto others is a better, healthier plan.
still_onthemark
@Kangol: I was fat for several years. I finally decided to get healthy after a random stranger made fun of me. I try to see that guy as a guru – it’s a Buddhist teaching!
Chrisk
Ha. There’s the link. Both want clothes to hide themselves in.
S.anderson
To me, the whole idea that there is “non-binary clothing” for the non-binary “look” smacks of CONFORMISM! It literally imposes the concept that some clothes are for the males and other clothes are for the females, so something else must be provided for the …others? Ugh. And who are these ranking superbrains who are setting these standards? UGH.
It’s just another way the fashion industry has captured another group of derpwoods within narrow walls on the pretense of “expressing their individuality”. I guess they get away with it every time!
Reminds me of when I volunteered for an LGBTQ youth center which had about 30 trans boys who all looked exactly like Harry Potter, 10 trans girls who dressed like trollops, plus 2 gay boys and a lesbian who confided in me that they felt like they were slotted in a lower caste there.
LumpyPillows
The non-binary nonsense is just the new punk or Goth and it is all about conforming to a look that is supposed to be non-conformist. Funny when you think about it. What is funny is how the extreme left has made the new punk into a gender. Wear what you want, kids, we know it will pass. And, no, you still don’t get made up pronouns.
bachy
@Lumpy: You’re onto it. I predict that the “reject the gender binary” trans movement will be similar to the “reject the establishment” hippie movement, in that it will eventually lose steam and phase out of relevance. The general public will become a little “looser” in their understanding of gender. Fanatical diehards could end up relegated to communes, entertaining each other with “glamour-girl” runway fashion shows in their dotage.
bachy
Contemporary whining has truly reached epic proportions. The world of fashion offers a broader range of apparel than ever before. If for some inexplicable reason you cannot find something suitable and want clothes tailored to your exacting, individual expectations, either make it yourself or hire someone to tailor clothing specifically for you, your arcane “identity” and your figure.
Mr.Gavin Elster
Um…..I left a comment regarding a dear non-binary friend. “They” have learned how to sew, using a vintage sewing machine, and are able to creatively repurpose utilitarian and pre-owned items. This is a win-win situation for “them” and the environment. For some reason my constructive comment was taken-down, and erased?
bachy
@ Dear Mr Gavin Elster: Comments are eliminated or go into eternal “moderation” mode for several entirely automated reasons, including:
1. You decided to edit during your 4 minute wait phase. This triggers a system glitch. If you want to edit, copy your text then completely DELETE your original post – and start over again.
2. Your post contains forbidden words. Carefully review your post for swear words and especially any kind of discriminatory name-calling, such as racist or homophobic terms. The system even deletes posts that contain a racist or homophobic term innocently embedded in a larger word, as I discovered much to my chagrin, after repeated attempts to submit a post that contained a synonym for the word snicker.
3. It is always best to simply “start over” and check your post for any of the above.
still_onthemark
@Mr Gavin Elster: Good for they/them! As I wrote above, I was hoping that one of they/them would do that.
@bachy: Yeah, that’s a weird glitch. You can’t actually “edit” anything here, you have to copy your comment, delete the old one, paste as a new comment and revise – then post! If I have a longer comment I write it on Word first and try not to make any mistakes.
bachy
Hi still_: thanks for detailing. It’s rather difficult to explain that particular fix.
LumpyPillows
What exactly is non-binary clothing? Does it not work with two arms and legs?
Magnus1999
The hoodie is fairly typical for the lazy American. We all have those days, but some people wear it as a uniform. If you don’t want to wear a hoodie, don’t wear a hoodie. Just like most cisgender people are unfashionable, the fashion of non-binary is also generally a train wreck.
If the argument is that the fashion industry doesn’t address larger customers and different proportions, that’s a different discussion. Clothing brands determine product demand up to a year in advance of the items hitting the racks. It’s easy for brands to anticipate the market demand for conventional sizes. As the sizes reach beyond XL, the demand plummets. Larger customers typically purchase far less apparel than skinnier and conventionally-sized customers. And larger customers typically purchase baggier and stretchier items that will accommodate weight fluctuations.
dbmcvey
I don’t know why people are freaking out over this idea. “Unisex” fashion goes back to the ’60s. It’s hardly a new idea.
Mr.Gavin Elster
Mod couturier extrodinare, and an early Gay rights pioneer advocate, Rudi Guernreich pretty much invented unisex clothing, in the early 60’s. Some say Mao did it in China, starting in 1949?
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: OMG. This debate is about “nonbinary” clothing, not “unisex” clothing!
Nonbinary clothing is for NEITHER of the two sexes, while unisex clothing is for EITHER.
Your faux pas is almost as bad as assuming gender! Try and show some sensitivity in the future.
/heheh
dbmcvey
@s.anderson, the clothing is the same you fatuous twit.
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: All joking aside, no, it literally is not the same.
-The point of unisex clothing is to express that one can wear both masculine and feminine styles.
-The point of nonbinary clothing is to conceal outward signs of sex or gender identity.
It’s butterflies vs potato sacks.
And you are in violation of the Queerty Comment Policy. Please try to be respectful to other people.
dbmcvey
You don’t care about any of this. You’re concern trolling.
dbmcvey
Just in case there are people who don’t know. Unisex clothing was a movement in the ’60s that was sort of connected to 60s futurism and started by Rudi Guernreich (as Gavin said). In referring to Unisex fashion we are talking of that movement, not of indiividuals. s.anderson either knows that and is being an ass or doesn’t know it and is being an ass.
S.anderson
@dbmcvey: you’re REALLY in violation of the Queerty Comment Policy now.
And you’d best stop trying to fight people by telling them what their intentions “really were”.
dbmcvey
I agree with Woods that nonbinary fashion tends to be, well, drab. But I think a lot of it is because of their avoidance of color so everyone looks kind of “sad beige baby,” although my understanding is those “nongendered” colors are part of the aesthetic. It seems like a perilous cliff.
abfab
Someone get this shmuck a non-binary prison suit—he’ll see more action.
“I’m pissed. That’s what I’m feeling right now,” Navarro said, standing in a parking lot across from a Papa John’s and a pawn shop. “But I’m also afraid of only one thing: I’m afraid for this country because this, what they’re doing, should have a chilling effect on every American regardless of their party. They come for me, they can come for you.”
Another MAGA asshole.