Charles Nelson Glover, a 45-year-old Michigan high school teacher, won’t be pleading guilty to criminal sexual conduct after being arrested for allegedly fondling an undercover police officer during a public park sex sting. Good for him?
Glover, who teaches civics and theater at Forest Hills Eastern High School, could’ve served no time (or up to three months, depending on the judge’s mood) if he plead guilty to the fourth-degree charges, which involves touching, not anything more severe. The arrest came during a Kent County Sheriff’s Department crackdown on man-on-man sex at Seidman Park in October.
But a guilty plea would almost certainly mean the end of his teaching career, let alone any other professional gig. So he’s going to trial next year to contest the charges, forcing taxpayers to foot the bill to prosecute one of the most meaningless “sex crime” cases I’ve ever heard about.
And therein lies the problem with these foolish park cruising raids: they accomplish nothing. While we’re adamant about keeping adult men from having sex with each other when children are nearby, even the sheriff’s office was quick to note at the time that “this incident did not involve juveniles.” Moreover, we took a look at Seidman Park, and it’s clear that it’s a vast wooded area that offers plenty of privacy. That Glover’s arrest involves only fourth-degree criminal charges indicates he allegedly grabbed the crotch of the officer, who almost certainly presented himself as a willing participant in a consensual act between two adults. Again, even the sheriff’s department acknowledges the park is a known hot spot for gay cruising; putting an undercover officer out in the woods might not qualify as the legal definition of entrapment, but that’s basically what this is.
How about we take this to the next level?
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Should Glover be sentenced if he’s guilty of these charges? Only if the Kent County Sheriff’s Department and prosecutors plans on arresting, booking, charging, and trying every single straight couple that fondles one another in line at Target, McDonald’s, the bank parking lot, and yes, wooded public areas. Sometimes with kids around. In daylight. I’ve seen all of this happen, and I’m sure you have too, but never once did an undercover officer flash his badge and take out his cuffs. The situations are nearly identical, except in Glover’s case there was likely nobody around to have to watch it unfold.
All Glover did was grab the junk of a guy who, he had good reason to believe, was in the park for the same reason he was. Had it been in any other public setting, this would be a non-issue. This sting smacks of anti-gay bias. And Glover — who might identify as straight or gay, and be married or single for all I know — now has his entire reputation and career on the line. (Yes, I’m well aware that a post like this only brings more attention to his case. Glover has, however, been plastered all over the local news.)
I’m not here defending disgusting guys who go around screwing in public for all to see. But a nearly-innocent private act between two agreeable adults is only notable because the sheriff’s department swapped in one of its officers for what should have been another civilian. Of the gay persuasion.
Will
I have mixed emotions on this one. We have to be responsible for our actions in public – they can and do bite us. He’s a 45-year-old teacher and he’s cruising t-rooms?!? That’s SO 1970. It would be different if he were inside a gay bar when he did this.
Jim Hlavac
Straight people display the most wanton of sexuality among themselves. You can see them embrace in astounding closeness at every airport in the country, lips locks and hips impressed into pole dancing exhilaration. You can seem them glom on each other at every beach. At no party, mall or supermarket are we not forced to watch their flaunting of their heterosexuality. On TV and in advertisements there pours forth their way too intimate touching. It’s nearly soft core porn for heaven’s sake. No where do these people exempt themselves from fondling, cuddling, nooking, and who knows what else. They are incessant and open about their sexuality, grabbing each other in amazing displays of butt cupping and breast crunching, lip locking and biceps grabbing.
But heaven forbid it two gay guys so much as hold hands, or make an admiring tousle of the other’s hair, or even perhaps, daringly, smooch in public. Then the cries of “public sex” are heard round the town. No, this is not public sex. This is a mere decent touch akin to anything that any two heterosexuals do in every single locale imaginable. They flaunt it with daring disregard for any child or grandmother around.
Under the Georgia “Sodomy” statute upheld in Bowers v Hardwick, and overturned in Lawrence v. Texas, even two WW II veterans hugging each other in greetings after decades of separation could have been charged with sodomy at Hartsfield International in Atlanta. No. Straight people do this everyday, and if we do it once, we are guilty? Balderdash, poppycock and fiddlesticks!
And that’s about as violent as gay people get in our supposed quest to destroy family, society, nation and civilization itself.
Egads, let that man go!
Hal
@Will: Oh Will! 1970 was VERY good year!
serge
@Will:
I am so sick and tired of puritanical gay men. “Men having sex in public is sooo disgusting!!!” “I don’t want to defend him ’cause he’s old and shouldn’t be having sex.” “OMG! He touched another man! KILLLL!!!”
Jim is right – str8 fuckers have been doing it for years at “makeout – point” (otherwise known as abortion-afterwards point). How many “straight sex-stings” has anyone heard about? Hello? Any? Wow. That’s amazing. Because it happens all over the place and yet it’s almost never considered a crime.
The sex-phobic and, dare I say it, homophobic of some gay men these days is pathetic. Have you been to Hooter’s lately? No? What about the str8 strip clubs that exist in every city? They are “absolutely not for sex” either. If you live in an alternative universe.
Get real and be less judgmental unless your life is so perfect we should all emulate you. (Pope?)
dave
@Will: Unless you get stabbed to death once you leave said gay bar, as was Aaron Scheerhorn. Apparently in front of numerous witnesses…down there in friendly Houston TX. Not ONE of those “witnesses” in Texas was armed?!? It’s time we arm ourselves where possible, and fight back.
cccole
While I acknowledge the inherent homophobia in this case, I am bothered by the nature of the touching described and the willingness of the author to write it off as totally OK. Is it OK to grab someone’s crotch without his permission just because he has presented himself and is presumably interested in eventually engaging in sex? I mean if the cop started kissing him and he felt up his leg, that might make sense- but I have a feeling that’s not what happened since it would change the story entirely. Touching someone’s genitalia without permission IS a sex crime. It doesn’t make all the circumstances fair, but it does make me pause before agreeing to this picture of him as a total victim. And Will has a point. You do not have a legal right to fuck outside, and as a public school teacher, he should know better than to be so careless.
Jay
Granted this is off topic. I’m all about combating homophobia, but arming ourselves would be the most unproductive method of doing so. Are you suggesting someone at the club should have been armed and should have shot the perpetrator? We still don’t even know the whole story (and no I’m not condoning the crime).
The last thing I want is to have random people carrying around guns and shooting people they think are committing a crime, even though it is a reality.
Anyhow, I somewhat do feel bad for Glover, especially if he was found to be not guilty. We are entitled to our privacy. I’m all about sexual liberation. However, given his profession and the fact that he works with kids, it seems rather foolish. Of course there is going to be backlash. I mean lets be realistic, if I had a daughter in that high school and her heterosexual male teacher was accused of having sex with random people in the woods, I’d feel a little uncomfortable, even if there wasn’t necessarily a connection.
dave
@cccole: Unless the police have un doctored audio and video of the alleged touching of the allegedly “touched” undercover police person, it is a case of “he said, he said.” We all know that the police never lie and love us with all of their heart. The police never ever collaborate to make sure they all are singing from the same page. And if you believe that, move to NYC or Los Angeles for a taste of what unfettered police power is like.
One more thing, If you’ve never fucked “outside” I suggest that you try it sometime, it’s fucking fantastic! I can only assume that you are confusing “outside” with “in public.”
Churchguy
Can we say HYPOCRISY? You’re damned right it’s no longer 1970. So why are the police, paid out of the hardworking taxpayer’s treasury, out at night trying to seduce people into touching their pee-pee’s? Pathetic. At most, Mr. Glover is guilty of extremely poor judgment. But a danger to the public peace? I think not.
Danny
The problem is police departments around the world have track records of extorting sexual favors from the GLBT community. And if members of the GLBT community don’t give in, they get arrested. And if you are in a country with checkpoints, you get the same treatment if you are identified as GLBT. Hetero males too often think they have a right to treat anyone else however they want for their sexual gratification. In Africa, for instance, hetero males rape anything that moves women, children, other men – then the gay community gets blamed because hetero society doesn’t like to accept responsibility that most rape, even against other men, is committed by self-identifying hetero males. Many police forces carry that same mindset of hetero-male privilege to commit sexual assault against others.
Daez
For starters, it is by NO means entrapment of any case. Also, when two “straight” people “molest” each other in a public place, there is no expectation that it will lead to more right there right then.
This is a case of a guy cruising in a public park. He groped the officer because he wanted to take it farther. People that cruise public parks are the lowest of low in the food chain.
At the very least, this man demonstrated poor judgment (which is not exactly something you want from a person that teaches your children) and the very most he was propositioning sex in a public area (which is something he honestly should be punished to the furthest extent of the law for).
Daez
@serge: http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&q=couple+arrested+for+public+sex&btnG=Google+Search
Check it out! Its a Google page FULL of straight couples getting arrested for sex in public. You guys act like no straight couple has ever been arrested for public sex which is insanely incorrect.
Oh, and cops “cruise” “make out point” very often and often make arrests.
Daez
@dave: Yes, that is a fantastic idea. Lets declare war on straight people. You know, because 10% beats 90% every time, and because we decided to declare such war all of our allies would then be our enemies. Trust me, a war against straight people is the LAST thing we want.
Daez
@dave: No, it really comes down to a question of motivation.
Who has more motivation to lie in this case? The officer? What is his motivation? Or, is it the teacher that obviously has a great deal of motivation. People do not lie just for the fun of it, so when it comes down to “he said/he said” the jury and judge will look only at motivation.
Cam
I’m curious. Is the district he teaches in gay friendly? Perhaps he was out crusing the forrest because he would be fired if he was seen out at a gay bar.
glennmcgahee
I doubt very much that he would have touched the cop unless the cop offered himself as available. Thats why they send out the hottest officers to cruise the woods. The police know exactly what they’re doing. Easy arrests. I know. I had an officer beg me to expose myself to him. Luckily,I knew better and believe the officer should have been arrested for suggesting such a thing since I just happened to be in the park riding my bike. It would have been easy for me to do so but I wondered why the guy didn’t show me himself rather than ask me to show him mine. Thats just selfish.
John
I have little sympathy for those arrested for actually having sex in public parks. Get a hotel or suffer the consequences. In this case, however, I question the legality of the charges. If the cop propositioned this guy he has no basis for charging him. Guess we’ll see once this goes to trial.
justiceontherocks
I thought county governments were in a financial crisis. Seems like a piss poor way for the cops to spend $$$.
But zero sympathy for the teacher. You play the game – you take your chances.
DR
Folks need to take a step back and look up what this guy is charged with before grabbing the pitchforks and torches and heading off to the police station.
He’s not charged with prostitution, solicitation, etc, he is actually charged with a low-graded sexual assault. I found the statute online, http://law.onecle.com/michigan/750-michigan-penal-code/mcl-750-520e.html
This is a really odd way to charge someone as the result of a police sting. Did this guy just walk up behind the officer and grab his crotch? Did he just reach out during the conversation about where to go and what to do and grab the officer? Something here isn’t making sense. Normally these guys are charged with solicitation of some sort, not unlawful touching which was the result of force, coercion, or surprise….
I will, however, agree with a number of the above posters. Cruise for sex in a public park and don’t take it home, this is what happens.
GetBalance
If women could stave off a dominant male as easy as male on male in a neg sitch, the parks would be full of str8 cruisers and all would be well. Again, lack of education, puritanical screwed up sex mores and guys who are jealous about not getting free sex like us gay boys is the culprit here. Easy peasy from my view. I hope the guy gets a stellar lawyer and bumps some serious ass in the holier than thou Christian influenced courts.
ewe
@Daez: wars against heterosexual dominance frought with double standards can be exposed in the legal arena with great accomplishments.
SteveAtlanta
Polica Departments have meetings and go on the drawing board for MONTHS to orchestrate plans of actions to arrest gay men. How? well, imagine someone makes a pass at you in public (legal) you are attracted to them (legal) they suggest hooking up (legal) and as soon as the other party agrees to it…..arrest. That’s called a set up, and police departments in the most caluclating manners are setting up *gay* men in the most vile sting operations that are nothing short of intolerable. It needs to be tackled head on and police departments need to be held responsible. This occured in Palm Springs where the police chief went on a tirade against gays….in the mother f’ing city WE OWN, we patronize, we keep afloat, we populate, and we bring much needed tourism revenue to. Do not be fooled by the straight agenda here. Meanwhile, hetrosexuals can virtually have sex in public with their signicant others ( ever live in a big city? can’t go to a concert much less movie theatre with out seeing full on sex/oral sex between hetros) and that goes ignored. Hence the problem here. Glad most recognize it for what it so obviously is and needs to be corrected.
SteveAtlanta
Folks, this Daex character is an internalized homophobe who always adopts a “blame the gays” mentality, and always tries to rationalize homophobia by simply saying “it’s not homophobia…because I said so” he’s defended zealot Christians, people who denied gays service at establishments, he’s defended those who vote down gay rights, cops arresting gay men, he’s even defend gay bashers in the past. This is NOT an ally, and is simply seeking attention because they clearly have a few things going “off” in their life. Don’t bother having an exchange with a person who fails all rational thinking and argues for the sake of arguing (even if they don’t believe half the nonensense they spew…it’s a matter of getting someone, anyone to respond)
MikenStL
Why are Americans such prudes? There’s little issue with seeing people shot with blood all over the place, but let two people (and heavens forbid, two men) become sexually involved and my gosh the world is ending. I am guilty of this too, but come on.
As an aside, I lost (or maybe used up) my virginity in a park at night with a girl when I was 16. I hate to think that I’d be hauled off to jail and be consider a sexual criminal for the rest of my life…
Matt
Sex in public parks is wrong – of if you do it, get caught, then you deserve the punishment. I do not appreciate weather gay or straight sex in public is wrong. If you OK this… whats next – sex in the toy department at Walmart? This guy is a Civics teacher…. he of all people should of known better. If the guy is so closeted that he is snooping around in public parks looking for perverted sex, what is he doing to kids in the classrooms. He definitely should not be teaching.
Goodnight Moon
@Daez: daez, how does googling examples of straight couples being busted in dubai or thailand support your argument?
ewe
@Matt: Rubbing someones crotch is essentially the same as a kiss on the cheek. It’s no big deal. I hope this guy exposes the cop for his involvement in targeting gay men. WHERE ARE ALL THE FEMALE COPS DOING UNDERCOVER IN THE PARKS? I don’t think i have ever heard of ONE. Not one. Because every court in every municipality would be filled with straight white men who got busted for being horny. Fuck them.
ewe
@Matt: Do you say the same thing about the straight male teachers who patronize seedy video parlors? Are they corrupting the children they taught hours before they got to the booths? You’re a mess.
GetBalance
@Ewe — you said “rubbing someones crotch is essentially the same as a kiss on the cheek. It’s no big deal.” Well mister, why don’t you give that a try on your mother next Mothers Day or your gay friends at your next night out at the movies. What planet are you from dude? You make toothless hillbillies seem like Mother Teresas. And you’re calling Matt “a mess”? You give a whole new meaning to the definition of mess, border-lining insane. Matt simply stays within the letter of the law. THAT’S “no big deal”.
Listen up angry shit slinger …. “get your priorities straight”.
Jaroslaw
#6 Ccole – others have already said this in a roundabout way, but you assume you are getting the full story – I’m with the other poster who said unless the police have a full unedited video, I’m for exonerating the defendant.
Cam – heck no, Kent county is super conservative Dutch Reformed! That’s probably why this guy was afraid to go to a bar and be seen.
I feel really sorry for him – he’ll never live this down no matter what he does at this point. He’ll probably have to leave the county and teach somewhere else.
Steve
When you bring up straight COUPLES who are arrested for public sex, you miss the point. This is an undercover cop who goes into public restrooms and FLIRTS with gay men. They DO offer themselves up to (usually) older gay men (who foolishly think “jackpot”).
A few years back I had a buddy entrapped by a police officer in Michigan. The guy went to the urinal next to his, repeatedly cleared his throat, and kept looking at my buddies cock (all the while tugging and stroking his meat). The cop was a young, early 20 something, fresh out of the police academy, muscle boy. He had a partial erection when he turned towards my friend and said, “Too bad I only have MY hand”. Then he stopped stroking, turned totally towards my friend, smiled, and nodded in the affirmative.
My buddy said, “I don’t usually do anything like this in public. Can we go somewhere?” That was when the cop informed my friend that he was under arrest. My buddy is muscular himself, blond, blue eyed, and only in his late 20s. He doesn’t need to “solicit” sex in rest areas.
He was still convicted of the “assault” though. When it’s a cops word in the conservative Grand Rapids area of Michigan you WILL get convicted. No Cam, that is NOT a gay friendly area.
Jaroslaw
Steve – From my life experiences with police for speeding tickets, etc. it is still generally their word against yours. I like to think most cops are honest, but then at the same time almost every job I’ve had, there is something I’ve been asked to do that isn’t necessarily illegal, but certainly isn’t “right.” Hasn’t everyone? Work at a restaurant, they re-serve bread (illegal) don’t clean the ice machine like they’re supposed to. Insurance – not illegal per se, but delay claims to avoid payment etc.
Why would the police force be any different? When you get paid, you basically do what you’re told. What has already been said, but may take on a slightly different viewpoint with what I’ve said: why are stings being done in the first place? I did read some TV news blogs about this guy and of course, almost all the comments were negative – “why is this pervert teaching our children” and “yeah, I live near the park and my nieces/nephews/children can’t got there anymore this stuff is so rampant.” (which I find very difficult to believe) Sad.