Dr. Phil is in the hot seat following an episode of his talk show featuring conservative blogger and podcaster/anti-trans activist Matt Walsh.
The episode aired on January 19 and featured Walsh, a self-described “fascist,” debating a non-binary couple. Over the course of the conversation, the couple, identified as “Ethan” and “Addison”, argued with Walsh about what constitutes a woman as he accused them of “appropriating womanhood.”
“This is one of the problems with left-wing gender ideology,” Walsh ranted. “No one who espouses it can even tell you what these words mean. What is a woman?”
“You want to appropriate womanhood and turn it into, basically, a ‘costume’ that can be worn.” – @MattWalshBlog pic.twitter.com/7o0bCoyqrm
— Adam Baldwin (@AdamBaldwin) January 20, 2022
Later in the exchange, words got especially heated when Addison asked Walsh, “I’m trying to understand. You definition of a woman is someone who is female, is what you said, right?”
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“Correct,” Walsh answered. “A biological female.”
“So what happens when you have maybe someone who is female, a cisgender woman, as you just explained, that doesn’t have the ability to reproduce? Maybe she doesn’t have those organs–”
“I have answered the question,” Walsh snapped. “You sit up here and said ‘trans women are women.’ You tell me. What is a woman?”
Related: Dr. Oz’s Senate campaign is an even bigger trainwreck than we were expecting
Addison replied, “Womanhood is something that, as Ethan explained, I cannot define because I, myself…”
“But you use the word!” Walsh interrupted. “What did you mean when you said ‘trans women are women’ when you don’t know what that means?”
“I do not define what a woman is because I do not identify as a woman,” Addison explained. “Womanhood is an umbrella term that describes people who identify as a woman. Each person has their own relationship with their gender identity.”
At that point, the audience burst into applause.
Related: Dr. Oz won’t stop bitching about cancel culture and everyone on Twitter is like “Girl, byeeeee!”
Of course, to anyone who knows him, it should come as no surprise that Walsh came ready to spew transphobic vitriol. He has a long history of transphobia, having authored the children’s book Johnny the Walrus, which compares being transgender to pretending to be a walrus.
He also has a history of homophobia, having called Pride month a “celebration of vanity” and denounced adoption by same-sex couples. He has also defended the vigilante actions of Kyle Rittenhouse, opposes abortion, and claims that doing yoga is anti-Christian, among other things.
Here’s how Twitter is reacting to his Dr. Phil appearance…
Good morning to everyone except “Dr.” Phil & Dr. Oz pic.twitter.com/TQkejeJCRC
— ??Chloe?? (@poshcloset1000) January 19, 2022
I was gonna tweet a joke about Dr. Phil, but even typing "Dr. Phil" is exhausting
— K?? (@dropoutninja) January 20, 2022
You know, Dr. Phil has done a lot of shitty things, but having Matt Walsh on to call trans people delusional and mentally ill *to their faces* is a new low, especially since he frames it as a "debate" with two valid opposing arguments, when it's really just transphobia
— Catherine Caruso ? (@cacarusoo) January 20, 2022
Which of the Seven Seals is Matt W*lsh appearing on Dr. Phil to talk about gender/transgender pronouns?
Is it the 6th? I think it's the 6th.
— Caffeinated Naptime ? (@CoffeeYall) January 20, 2022
Matt Walsh did a good job on Dr. Phil but it was better when Milo was doing it.
— Paul ???? (@PaulJEscandon) January 20, 2022
Say what you want about Ellen.
At least she didn't invite a bigot to speak on her show like Dr. Phil did.
Matt Walsh shouldn't be given a platform to spread his transphobic rhetoric.
— Eric 4 Trans Rights?????? (@KarnRulez) January 20, 2022
Matt Walsh was invited on Dr. Phil to discuss gender issues, which tells you everything you need to know about both of them.
— Clem Fandango Stan Account (@HCMarks) January 20, 2022
Matt Walsh going on Dr. Phil talking about his seal book is the most absurd video ive seen… comparing them to animals is such a disgusting thing to do, he just wants to hate trans people and degrade the trans community as a whole.
— filterflex (@flexiteriat) January 20, 2022
Dear @DrPhil
Please don't ever live tweet during RuPaul's Drag Race & act like an ally again if you are going to have people like Matt Walsh on your show spreading transphobia to the masses.
Sincerely,
The LGBTQ community and their real ally's.— Nicolette NuVogue (@NikkiNuVogue) January 20, 2022
I see "dr" Phil continues to have white supremacists on his show. Oh an his wife is having a "pick-up artist" MRA on her podcast. How very "girl boss" of her. When is Oprah gonna answer for what she unleashed?
— Bat Benatar (@MercurialMiss) January 20, 2022
Between Dr. Phil and Dr. oz, Oprah really did us dirty. Nobody’s perfect
— JoyFool ? (@j0yz) January 20, 2022
Today I learned:
1. Dr. Phil is still on the air (????)
2. He invited self described theocratic fascist Matt Walsh on his show to debate non-binary people about their existence.
Fuck both of those guys for their fear mongering and treating trans/non-binary people as a spectacle https://t.co/R8epHnkErk— Ms. Charlotte (@charlotteirene8) January 20, 2022
SamB
She can’t even state what is a woman, and yet she is a woman.
Heywood Jablowme
Well, you’re not a woman, and yet you’re a d*****b**.
SamB
Heywood: How very narrowminded of you to think only women can douche. I thought you were a better person than that.
transtastic
What part of, “I do not define what a woman is because I do not identify as a woman,” do you not understand??
SamB
transtastic: You do not have to be a woman to know what a woman is. I know what one is and I’m a man.
Bosch
What it means to be a man in America is different from what it means to be a man in Brazil, and what it means to be a man in Saudi Arabia, and what it means to be a man in France. The parameters of gender expectations differ across times and cultures. So what you know is what it means to be a man in YOUR time and YOUR culture, and what it means to be a woman in YOUR time and YOUR culture.
Look at the comments beneath the housing discrimination article: Hank31 clearly feels that “crying to your mother” conflicts with the definition of “being a man”. So even within similar cultures, the definitions are not concrete.
SamB
Bosch: Biologically speaking a man is an adult male human being. So a trans man will never be a man, he will always be a trans man. People are trying to blur that line now, for some reason, and I don’t think it’s doing either side any good. Unfortunately women are being affected more than men when we refuse to see the difference there. Trans women being allowed on a woman’s sports teams will almost always outperform the women, regardless of how much estrogen they take. A trans woman’s hands remain the same, her center of gravity is different than a mans, and there are many other advantages. No one wants to see a trans person suffer or be ridiculed, but pretending they aren’t different isn’t helping anyone.
Bosch
Yes, biologically speaking. Which is why we use the word “gender” to differentiate from “sex”. Don’t you get it? TransGENDER people are not pretending biology isn’t real. Transphobes are pretending that transpeople are denying biology, because otherwise they would have to have a REAL conversation.
Bosch
PS: you could add a lot of credibility to your opinions on trans athletes by simply saying “I believe athletes should be separated by sex, not by gender identity.”. See how clear that is? You don’t have to change any of your beliefs in order to use words correctly. And this way, you’re not insulting trans people by making them sound delusional.
SamB
Bosch: You keep separating sex from gender and you told me somewhere else that I should review a different discussion we had. I do not believe, like you do, that sex and gender were different entities throughout history. From the research I’ve done the terms only started to become slightly separated in the 1950’s when the concept of “masculinity” and “femininity” were being investigated by sociologists. Perhaps in those circles the words developed different meaning but in the rest of the world the two words were interchangeable.
And no, I don’t think it would be a good idea to have trans people on sports teams based on their biological sex, I think there should be teams set up specifically for trans people. That way it’s a level playing field for everyone.
Bosch
What you’re referring to in the 50s is gender’s application in the field of psychology.
Gender’s original definition was “category” or “group”. When used in relation to sexes, it was specifically to describe behavioural correlations with sexes, not physical attributes.
From Oxford dictionary:
Originally extended from the grammatical use at sense 1 (sometimes humorously), as also in Anglo-Norman and Old French. In the 20th cent., as sex came increasingly to mean sexual intercourse (see sex n.1 4b), gender began to replace it (in early use euphemistically) as the usual word for the biological grouping of males and females. It is now often merged with or coloured by sense 3b.
Historical usages:
c1390 (??c1350) St. Theodora l. 110 in C. Horstmann Sammlung Altengl. Legenden (1878) 36 (MED) Hire name, þat was femynyn Of gendre, heo turned in to masculyn.
1474 in C. L. Kingsford Stonor Lett. & Papers (1919) I. 142 (MED) His heyres of the masculine gender of his body lawfully begoten.
a1500 (?a1460) Towneley Plays (1994) I. xxx. 408 Has thou oght writen there Of the femynyn gendere?
1580 W. Fulke Retentiue 92 For there is but one Lord..both of men and of Angels, which doth not onely exclude all other Lordes of the masculine gender, but much more all Ladyes.
1632 S. Marmion Hollands Leaguer iii. iv. sig. g4v Here’s a woman: The soule of Hercules has got into her. She has a spirit, is more masculine, Then the first gender.
1656 Earl of Monmouth tr. T. Boccalini Ragguagli di Parnasso 135 Strength..was a vertue attributed to the masculine gender.
It was not only used to refer to masculinity-femininity, but also to differences between the rich and the poor, the old and the young, etc.
When it was adopted as an identifier in linguistics, the terms “masculine”, “feminine”, and “neuter” in no way suggested that words had biological characteristics or genitals.
If your research into this word was truly motivated by the search for truth, you would not discard all this information.
SamB
Bosch: Your examples of writers using gender instead of sex proves nothing because I can copy/paste a bunch of examples of historical writers using sex as well. Because someone described a woman as being more masculine than feminine doesn’t mean he’s talking about a trans or nonbinary person. He was stating that a woman is acting more like a man.
Ok, I’m giving in to the notion (for this discussion) that Sex is Biology and Gender is how someone feels. If a man feels like a woman, and transitions to make themselves feel better, I think that it’s good for her. But we can’t deny the biology of the person all of a sudden. I feel like I’m younger all the time and then I look in the mirror and it proves I’m older than I feel. A feeling is relevant only to that person.
Bosch
None of those historical examples were supposed to prove anything a out trans or non-binary people, they were just to show that the proper definition of gender is centuries old, and not some kind of new woke propaganda.
I haven’t actually given you any of my opinions on trans people, I’ve just been giving definitions of words and conclusions of scientific research. I’m not really interested in changing your political view, I’m interested in stopping the spread of misinformation and miseducation.
No one, save for a few teenagers on twitter, is denying biology. That is a fearmongering argument used to rile up the political right against the political left.
Have you ever wondered why you, who is not trans, who is not an athlete, and who is not a psychologist, are so compelled to complain about trans issues at every opportunity? How important was this issue to you before Trump’s trans military ban and before trans bathroom rights were scapegoated? It’s a diversionary tactic, the same that priests use to scapegoat gays and divert attention away from child abuse in the church.
Bosch
PS – when an adult has the brain of a child, we do in fact treat them as a child and give them the rights of a child. The brain is the individual, the body is the vehicle.
SamB
Bosch: An adult with the brain of a child is not treated like a child. That is a mental disorder and I know firsthand that they are treated as adults with disabilities.
Bosch
And how do we treat an adult with developmental disabilities? We protect them from adult responsibilities, we prohibit certain adult behaviours, we help.them take care of themselves, and we forgive them for their different reasoning skills.
You’re telling me I’m wrong and then confirming what I said.
SamB
Bosch: Stop it, you’re infantilizing grown adults. Their bodies continue to mature and the brain does as well, but in many cases they can’t comprehend and properly assess what is happening to them. Many do want to work, and almost all want to have sex, and you have to discuss these things with them, their caregivers and not make a judgement on their behalf. You can’t just give them toys like you could a child to distract them.
Besides I don’t know why you’re making comparisons between Trans people and people with developmental disabilities.
Bosch
How you are deciding to interpret what I write says more about you than it does about me. Your rhetorical tricks are transparent.
But before anyone else thinks I’m “infantilizing grown adults”, let me clarify: Developmental disablity is an umbrella term, and you and I are clearly thinking of different conditions. And somehow, I think you’re perfectly aware of this, but your mission here is to argue and win.
My point, which I thought was crystal clear, is that we treat people in accordance with their brains, not with their bodies. The brain is the individual, the body is the vehicle.
Bosch
” I feel like I’m younger all the time and then I look in the mirror and it proves I’m older than I feel. ”
This is what brought me to the subject of developmental disabilities, not trans people.
Jim
Phil MCGraw is a quack who exploits people’s pain for his monetary gain.
Ken A.
There were both sides presented. Not a fan of Dr. Phil because his and most of those shows don’t solve problems. Walsh was used for ratings, people wouldn’t think twice if they presented the one side and no one talk about it. Matt doesn’t like trans people, fine he doesn’t like trans people, there are others that do and that’s fine too. You don’t agree with Walsh, that’s fine but he and his ilk shouldn’t be censored or anyone. Agree to disagree. All the twitter/ social media outrage is just ridiculously pretentious.
darkside73826779
You can’t state what it means to be a woman any easier than you can state the meaning of life. Life is best defined by the living and womanhood and manhood are best defined by those that are women or men. It is not always genes or genitalia that can be used to define a woman or man and it is fruitless to waste one’s life over making things black and white that are perfectly fine being grey or any other color or shade.
SamB
You misunderstood the question, it was, “What is a woman.” Not womanhood or what it means to you. The definition for a woman is simple, “An adult female human being.”
leo1008
There is, in fact, a clear answer from the science of biology regarding exactly what it means to be a woman (or a man). It remains on odd development in some of our fringe subcultures that any doubt has arisen on that question. But, perhaps you meant to phrase your statement differently?
Hank31
This is religion.
inbama
Hens and roosters are REAL.
Cows and bulls are REAL.
Men and women are REAL.
Trans people have a right to live as they please – as do gays, lesbians and bi’s.
It is NOT a human right however, to demand that all humanity buy into a nonsensical ideology that denies reality, use invented pronouns to validate your mental state, and send gay and lesbian kids to gender mills to be sterilized.
Leash
go home ibama u drunk 😀 what the fck gender mills? You sound like a crazy person.
Humanity is evolving, with or without you baby.
Bosch
Inbama, I KNOW you know the difference between gender and sex, because you pasted usages of the word from the 15th century where gender referred to masculity and femininity. You’re just gonna gleefully ignore the proof that you yourself supplied because it doesn’t fit your belief system?
SamB
Bosch: Back then the terms were used interchangeably, they were synonyms and meant the same thing…. man or woman.
Bosch
No Sam, we’ve been over this before. They were not used interchangeably until the word “sex” became eroticized in the 20th century. Go through one of our previous conversations and you’ll see that inbama provided examples of its usage in the 1500s, referring specifically to masculinity and femininity.
If you understand the difference between masculine and male, then you understand the difference between gender and sex. And what is the point of incorrectly using the word “gender” to mean “sex” in a conversation where your opponent uses “gender” to mean “gender”? Isn’t that intentional ignorance?
Words are a contract for transmitting information, so intentionally misinterpreting someone because of politics is a most literal definition of ignorance.
Jack
Oprah, you created two hot ass messes called Dr. Phil and Dr. Oz. They ran their course a LONG TIME AGO. At least Oz packed up the crazy and left (for a failed Senate run). Phil is worse. Jerry Springer for the suburban housewives. FIX IT, Jesus…Oprah…same thing.
rangerwilcox
hey Matt Walsh, what is it to be man?
having a beard certainly doesn’t make it so. and you’re not being a good human, failing to listen and acknowledge how others define things and snapping back when others try to.
Diplomat
I’d say this show was scripted. The non binary guy was all over the place. First, he couldn’t define the word woman. Then he was, what if a woman can’t reproduce, then what is she? Next he shifted the conversation from not defining women to defining womanhood, a completely different topic. He was scattered all over the board.
I do believe that non binaries and trans alike must make a point of saying that their brains genetically do not match their bodies and that they force themselves to call themselves trans males or females. If for no other reason than safety. Dating can lead to death if wrongly perceived.
Clarity is always welcome. Though I think chaos makes bigger bucks. And that for this show, is aptly called “trainwreck”.
Bosch
You’ve identified one of the biggest problems with the way debates are carried out in the modern global forum. As if the biggest brag in a debate is anti-intellectualism, we ignore the information of the knowledgeable and tune in to the expressions of the emotional.
Almost every facet of the trans discussion would benefit from the input of actual biologists, psychologists, and sociologists. Instead, we let the debate rage exclusively between anti-trans radicals and victims of discrimination. Of course the transphobe is going to have anti-trans arguments. Of course the trans individual is going to have pro trans arguments.
Does anyone on that stage know what information neurologists have on this subject? Of course not, no one actually answers. The transphobe wants to attack, and the transwoman wants to defend.
Diplomat
Zactly. And therein where scientifics should be the highlight, cluelessness and emotional chaos trump the conversation at everyones expense, short the producers.
Joshua333
Transphobes don’t know the difference between Sex and Gender huh…
Bosch
They just pretend not to understand, because it invalidates their strawman argument of invented sexes and biological denial.
But maybe the differences between behaviour, identity, and biology are just too complicated for simple minds.
Hank31
Trans activists prefer locked down venues, where they have complete control and they can censor, block, and delete critical views. They don’t do so well in open forums which they don’t control. That’s why this was a “train wreck.” Because the viewers got to see the vacuity of trans ideology unfiltered.
GlobeTrotter
I don’t know why everyone’s beating around the bush, but science provides an exceeding clear definition of who’s a man and who’s a woman:
man = XY genes
woman = XX genes
End of argument!
There is a very tiny minority of individuals, whose genes, for various medical reasons, aren’t so clearly defined. The rareness of their condition, however, actually confirms the XY/XX rule which applies to the overwhelming majority of all human beings.
Now I firmly believe that everyone has the right to live the life that brings him/her the maximum personal fulfillment. If being a fulfilled individual means living your life as the opposite gender, then more power to you, as long as dong so brings no harm to anyone else. I do have a problem, however, whenever I’m required to deny science and accept an alternate reality which we know to be verifiably untrue. Trans individuals must be free to live their lives as they choose, but please stop with this “trans women are women” lie. NO – trans women are men who choose to live their lives as women! There’s nothing wrong with that, so let’s just stick to the facts, okay?
Leash
If you’d really want trans people to be happy you stop telling them they are not reaaally what they identify as. I really don’t get why some people insist on that. It sounds almost childish to me.
If you grow up having a penis, but you know deep inside you are a woman, like you feel like a woman, then you are a women in my book. I mean aren’t the insides more important?
Bosch
Transphobes only discuss sex (biological configuration) while the rest are trying to discuss gender and gender identity (social and behavioural descriptors). This debate is doomed to fail repeatedly if all those involved do not align their definitions.
Sex has, for centuries referred to male and female, and gender has, for centuries, referred to masculine and feminine.
transtastic
If gender is based on chromosomes, how did we know who a man was and who a woman was before their discovery in 1905? Was gender invented in the 20th century?
DaPeb
First of all, as much as a person has the right to “claim” to be a male or female even if the chromosomal makeup determines the opposite of what they are conveying, so does a person have the right to believe otherwise. Male / Female wasn’t a concept that came about in the 20th century. This was determined at the time of creation. And while I do believe that we should respect all people and love them we DO have the right to an opinion. And this includes Matt Walsh! You may not “like” his opinion, but get over it! The elephant in the room wasn’t Walsh; it was the man sitting there saying he was a woman / female. I mean…take that argument a step forward…if a person with no education “feels” like a doctor should we say, “Aw, how nice of you to want to help people…”, give him scrubs and send him to the operating room to operate … on your MOTHER?? Anyone? Pls by all means wear a dress and pantyhose and wear some makeup if it makes you feel good! But, don’t believe for an instant that this somehow makes you a woman / female. It doesn’t.
Alejandro De La Garza
I don’t care for Dr. Phil or Matt Walsh, but I don’t care much for the vitriolic trans movement either. These people are confused about their gender and want everyone else to be equally confounded. Hate to break it to you, folks, but we’re not! I resent the trans community has forced themselves into the overall queer community and give the impression that we’re all…well, confused about gender! They’re the ones who are confused, suddenly decided to start questioning gender and created idiotic terms like “cisgender”. Then they have the nerve to get pissed off when everyone else questions them.
Leash
You know people (used?) to say that about us too, that we are just confused or mentally ill for loving the same gender. You are doing the exact same thing here. You are denying them to be happy, because you don’t understand it, just like the homophobes do to us.
If you would know a transgender person, like really personally know, you’d think differently and see that they really are who they identify as. We are a community and we need to stick together, there are already enough who make our lifes harder.
DaPeb
I agree with you on this. The logic is ludicrous! “I feel like a dog..arff! arff!…” Ummm…. Okay? I believe that Dr. Phil and Walsh have every bit as much of a right to their opinions as a trans person wants to argue that they won’t respond to “he / she”, but rather “they / them”. ? One may not like the message, but they have as much right to intelligently discuss this subject. And Walsh framed his thoughts rather well.
LumpyPillows
I actually listened to the piece and came away with a very different reaction; it was a good discussion. Gender is whatever you want it to be was the essential argument by the bearded person, whom I still don’t understand, and that is unworkable. Transwomen are transwomen. Respect them, but they are not women. In the echo chamber of the crazy leftists who haunt Queerty, this is heresy, but in the real world it is reality. We lose the battle to gain respect and support for trans people by insisting there is no difference and that gender is whatever you want it to be in you fickle brain at the moment; that isn’t gender that is mood and fashion. That does not work in the real world. It does not work at the ballot box. Ironically, it isn’t even some thing we need. Trans people need protection in the workplace, health care and housing. That is the battle. Insulting people is not the way to win those important needs.
Bosch
The argument does not resolve itself because those involved do not properly define the differences between sex, gender, and gender identity.
Your sex is the dangly bit. That part is easy.
Your gender is the space you occupy on your culture’s gender scale, and refers specifically to masculinity and femininity. If you call Lindsay Graham a feminine male, feminine is his gender and male is his sex.
Gender identity tends to refer to behaviour and expression, but like all identities, is an invention of the individual. The only reason people are upset by unsual gender identities is because they conflict with gender stereotypes. However, a gender identity is no more artificial than a religious identity or a national identity. We let people make ridiculous assertions based on their religious and national identity, yet there is no room for humans to express themselves honestly if it doesn’t fit sex expectations.
JLTHLA
You can “start” by just turning him off.
Bosch
Neurological research repeatedly shows that individuals who identify as trans often have the reproductive system of one sex and the central nervous system of the other sex, before hormonal treatments. The reproductive system generates sex-specific hormones, and thus dictates secondary sex characteristics.
So the real question here is whether the essence of the self resides in the brain or in the genitals. Transphobes seem to think the self resides in the genitals, because they’re all a bunch of dicks and assholes.
Leash
Beautiful conclusion!
SumSay
I think it’s clear that once you mention science or research, you’ve lost the arguement. Only their beliefs matter, not empirical evidence. Thank you Bosch.
Diplomat
Women would probably say their self resides in the brain, and then also say that the self of a man resides in his dik.
On a more solemn note: Since trans women have the brain structure of a female, it makes sense they would want to be called a woman, tho in actuality they are woman and man combined. They think from the inside out and we see them from the outside in.
When seen clearly, they are truly an alternate structure to both a man and a woman fitting genetically into both categories. They might be considered sex-dual structures. Half man half woman, but neither one exclusively.
JED08
Since we know that Dr. Phil is an evil, dimwitted troll, why would anyone watch that?
iminheatlikeacat
A man can’t ever become a trans man and a woman can’t ever become a trans woman. A man could hypothetically become a trans woman and a woman could hypothetically become a trans man. The difference is glaring, and real. Trans people can believe they are whatever they believe they are but it doesn’t mean everyone else has to do so go along with the delusion as well.
anne_lesby
Can anyone tell me what a woman is?
Tombear
What is a woman? Your mamma!
Terrycloth
Years ago we had 4. Gay , straight , bi and lesbian..now there’s 500 different pronouns you can label yourself some interchangeable..I watched the show..I like to think I am a well educated and informed gay man..watching the Dt Phil show I was more confused than i was enlightened..
johncp56
I could not watch the whole shameless show, it was so disrespectful to the trans community and me as a old-school gay man, he is a creepy nonlicensed Dr bully!! I watch sometimes to see how far he goes, and to see how filtered his plastic lotion selling wife looks, as he drags her off the show at the end, LOL mean and a bully, how helpful is this mentally