According to the San Francisco Human Rights Commission’s 2011 report Bisexual Invisibility: Impacts and Recommendations, bisexual individuals represent the single largest portion of the LGBTQ community.
Although bisexuals make up so much of the LGBTQ community, bi people still remain one of the most under-represented groups in media and culture.
In one of his latest videos, bisexual YouTuber RJ Aguiar examines this lack of bi representation. He even takes on Dustin Lance Black and the recent TV mini-series When We Rise.
Here’s what RJ wrote in the video’s description:
How about we take this to the next level?
Our newsletter is like a refreshing cocktail (or mocktail) of LGBTQ+ entertainment and pop culture, served up with a side of eye-candy.
Bi representation is a tricky thing. First of all, it’s hard enough to even find bisexual people in movies, TV, books, music, and so on. We’re the single largest portion of the LGBTQ+ community, but one of the most underrepresented in media. But that’s just where the problems begin, because it can sometimes even be unclear as to what constitutes bisexual representation. Case and point: When We Rise. It’s a wonderful series that chronicles moments throughout the LGBT Rights movement. The series creator, Dustin Lance Black, claims he included bi people in the series, but many members of the Bisexual community beg to differ. So who is right? Well, to understand the answer, we’ve got to actually examine the issue of bi visibility and bi erasure. Despite contributing to the culture and heritage of the LGBTQ+ community, we’ve largely been erased from the history books. So people think that bi history exists as its own thing. Furthermore, many people think that merely having a character show interest in more than one gender constitutes bi representation. But allow me to explain the issue with that thinking, and why myself and other bi activists keep repeating the line “SAY THE WORD!”
What do you think about RJ’s takes on the topic? Watch the full video below and share your thoughts in the comment section.
Billy Budd
Bisexuality exists. Deal with it, people. Bisexuals are not closet cases waiting to become queens. Bisexuals are bisexuals and they are happy like that. Bisexuality is awesome. It is the nearest and most natural behavior compared to what is found in nature. I firmly believe that most people who nowadays identify as straight would identify as bisexual in case love between equals was fashionable and accepted once again, as it was before the coming of X-Tianity.
Mundo
Gracias. Exactamente!
inbama
” It is the nearest and most natural behavior…”
Bigoted and ignorant staterments like that only makes people hate you more.
Donston
And they don’t even get that often times. They convince themselves that they’re both more special and more “natural” than any other being.
The good thing is that it’s not that difficult to decipher whose identities and “lifestyle” is a true example of who they are and who among the pack are truly level-headed. Unfortunately, when it comes to men who identify as bi, fluid, queer, flexible, etc it’s often the crazies, the narcissists, the men driven by perversion and fetish and ego, and the men dealing with a severe amounts of self-hatred/denial that are often the loudest.
There is some wonderful irony to the fact that the first comment in the thread lives up to the stereotype.
Lvng1Tor
Beyond just saying a character is Bi, how do you accurately show that someone is? If you show them romantic with more than one gender they get classified as a sl#t. Even though their straight counterparts can do the same and it’s just fine. If you show them with only one gender but they say they are bi, people will call it “erasure”. What about all the Bi people who are now saying they are “pansexual” . It’s hard enough for gay characters to not be defined just by their ‘gayness”. I know and agree that there needs to be representation. How do we do it right? With a rising number of younger people identify as “not straight” it will be interesting to see how we give visibility to all the numerous sexualities.
DCguy
I think bi-erasure exists, but I haven’t seen it in the same way the author here is pointing it out.
The article says “Bi representation is a tricky thing. First of all, it’s hard enough to even find bisexual people in movies, TV, books, music, and so on.”
But I’ve seen in a TON of lgbt movies where the supposedly gay guys sleeps with a woman. So I don’t see bi-erasure there.
Where I see it is in the constant narrative from lgbt blogs trying to call bisexuality ANYTHING other than bisexuality. The latest one that was being pushed was “Hetero-flexible”. Either that or it’s just the tired B.S. of “No labels”. In other words, whatever it takes to allow closet cases to not have to be honest.
Bisexuals already have to deal with everybody either thinking they are gay and won’t admit it or closet cases, and now they have to deal with titles like “Hetero-flexible” which insinuates a desperate hetero guy who occasionally will slum it with a guy.
Jack Meoff
My sentiments exactly but I will also add that it’s the bisexuals who are coming up with all of these new labels for themselves. These new labels make it sound like it is the bisexuals themselves who do not wish to be labelled as bisexual and as though they do not wish to totally abandon their straight privilege. I can’t help but feel that the out and proud bisexuals that want to stand up and be counted are actually in the minority of the larger bisexual community.
Donston
When it comes to men, yes, the ones with legitimate and substantial sexual attractions to men and women and who fully embrace that are indeed in the minority. The typical “out and proud” non-homo but queer identifying man is pretty obviously driven by attention, narcissism, fetish, internalized homophobia, etc.
As much as “bi-phobic” has become a cute word bi-guys have no one to blame but themselves. The refusal to be direct about exactly who they are and their motivation. The desperation to separate themselves from homosexual and retain straight privileges. And the multitude of different labels that have come out of the woodwork. It makes it hard for real bisexual men, particularly ones who respect both women and homo-identifying men and view both as real potential romantic partners, have to work even harder to get respect.
Heywood Jablowme
“now they have to deal with titles like ‘Hetero-flexible’”…
But they came up with that title themselves. It’s not like gay men are forcing bisexuals to call themselves such a ridiculous thing. If they want to call themselves that, so what? I’m not the nomenclature police.
To paraphrase Thomas Jefferson: “It does me no injury for my neighbor to say he is hetero-flexible. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
Donston
I don’t really mind homo/hetero flexible. It lets people know where your baseline attractions lie but you, for whatever reason, wish to step out of them sometimes. Unfortunately, like most of these labels it often gets mis-appropriated and used to cover other things.
The people who still identify as bi or support the bi agenda are desperately trying to hold on to the notion that most men who identify as bi actually have real and substantial attraction to men and women. But the movement away from bisexual identity continues to reveal that that’s frequently not the case.
Haliwe
Yes, there are many bisexuals who are afraid to come out as bisexual. You only have to look at this thread as to the why. Bisexuals get flack from both sides: straight people refuse to date them, and lesbian/gay people refuse to date them.
Bisexuality is called a myth.
We’re called confused, fence sitters, profiteers of the work of the LG community, not wanting to be out to get straight privilege etc.
So yes, we often ourselves are not coming out and there are a lot of people afraid to take the bisexual label.
But that’s a response to the way bisexuals are treated by others, and not a starting point.
By the way: straight passing privilege may look nice, but being read as something you’re not is not privilege. Bisexuals pay for that privilege with more invisibility and incredulity when they come out. Privilege you pay for is not privilege.
Donston
I’m speaking only about bi-identifying men in this long-arse post.
Billy, that’s the type of perspective that annoys a lot of homo and hetero identifying people: “Most straight men are actually secret bi, us bi’s are special and unique and so much more complex and open-minded than anything other group of people, especially those gays. Please don’t attach us to those gays”. And like many you misinterpret the history of bisexual acceptance. Rome was not full of people who indulged bisexual behavior before the rise of Christianity. The behavior was merely something that was not socially unacceptable. But homosexual relationships or men who indulged sexual activity with non young and feminized men was still very much frowned upon.
First, even bisexual behaving/identifying people are running away from being bisexual. Fluid, queer, flexible, pan, I don’t believe in labels, etc people are often desperately trying to detach themselves from LGBT, especially the L and G and is largely a section of people who frequently admit that their bisexual behavior is driven by things other than sexual attraction or even the ability to see multiple genders as romantic partners. Secondly, what does “bisexual” actually mean nowadays? For me it’s real and substantial sexual attraction to men and women. Unfortunately, most men who identify as bi don’t say that’s the reason they identify as bisexual. Everyone wants to come up with their own special and unique definition of things that often represent behavior or preference or what they want to be open to rather than actual orientation, and that makes things even more confusing.
As much as people try to deny it these labels, including bisexual, are still being used to a great degree by men to disguise behavior and identity purely driven by narcissism, the development of paraphilia fetishes and domination/worship fetishes, ego, opportunity, nymphomania, internalized homophobia/obsession with retaining hetero-normalcy/wanting to retain some sense of conventional masculinity, and to hide genuine confusion but admitting you’re confused nowadays is just not acceptable. I’m not ignorant enough to say that legit bisexuality in men doesn’t exist. But damn if the stereotypes aren’t true a great percent of the time. And these are realities that people don’t want to confront and if you do you get deemed “bi-phobic”.
The vast majority of men who do not identify as hetero but also don’t identify as homosexual have no real interest in loving a man or committing themselves to a man and don’t particularly care about homo-identifying men. Whether it’s due to being someone who has a legit bisexual orientation but who simply prefers to be with women or being a gay man who is dealing with internalized homophobia/obsession with hetero-normalcy and dynamics/the ego boost they get from being women romantically and sexually or someone whose relations with men is purely fetish or convenience not real attraction or basic narcissism where it’s all about being wanted by people and worshiped by people and feeling different things – whatever is going on from an individual perspective the majority are not trying to be with a man outside of the bedroom and majority don’t really give a crap about homo-identifying men. The ones that actually look at men as real romantic partners usually don’t have any real attraction to women or the attraction isn’t anywhere close to substantial and the bi identity or bisexual behavior is just to feel more masculine or “complex” or to indulge their ego or fetishes.
Most of these guys are perfectly willing to say they’re open to sex with men and women or say they frequently engage in sex with men and women, but very few are willing to flat-out say they have real sexual attraction to men and women and only a small percentage seem interested in or even open to having real relationships with men (aka though I’m only truly attracted to men being with women, having sex with women, loving a woman and having a hetero frame work to my life stabilizes my ego too much to let go of, so I want to primarily use guys for sex and fun) and as I mentioned a couple times already very few seem to give a crap about homo identifying men. I mean, live your life the way you wish. And I know all men who identify as these things aren’t like that. But an exceeding amount are. And it just leaves me being indifferent about this particular “cause”.
However, I do think more representation is needed. A lot of people indulge bisexual behavior. We need to see that represented.
Jack Meoff
What you describe in your post is largely what my experience with bisexual men has been. Most are only secretly bi and use men for sex but would never contemplate a relationship with a man. I recently had a conversation with a married bi man who has just split from his wife. He has been having sex with men behind his wife’s back and upon asking him if he thought he might date men now that he is single he emphatically said no that he could never date a man and that he would like to meet a new woman. That to me sums up how most bisexual men feel about their sexuality. Yes some bi men are open and honest about their sexuality but they are in the minority.
kernowcraig
@Jack I’m curious how many Bi men you’ve actually spoken with!? Im Bi, had a longterm relationship with a woman, where I didn’t cheat and have now been with a guy for 5 years, where I haven’t cheated on him with woman. Actually from connecting with other Bi men on forums, thats normal behaviour. The difficult I struggle with is actually acceptance from the gay community who assume if I’m dating a guy, I am gay and should just “get over myself” Just as many Gay, Lesbian and Transgender people struggle to get acceptance for who they are, its no different for a bisexual person.
Black Pegasus
Bisexuality is a myth. It’s a moniker claimed by selfish homosexual narcissists who believes both genders can’t exist without them.
Donston
We need to grow pass this mindset. Legit bisexual orientation is real and not all people who identify as bi or some off-shoot of bisexual are hyper-sexual narcissists driven by ego and fetish and looking to be wanted, admired and worshiped by both women and men. Although, yes, many do fit into that category (Nico Tortorella being a prime example). However, study after study continue to reveal that while a decent number of women who identify as bi have a bisexual orientation almost all men who identify as bi don’t. There are often other things that promote their identity and preferences beyond inherent orientation, and many use these tons of identities to shield what those things are. While the refusal to confront those many things is why there’s still so much frustration, lying and confusion.
Everyone wants everyone to place nice instead of dealing with the things that are going on in people’s heads and in people’s lives. And I don’t think that mindset leads to true progress or education or honesty or settling into your actual orientation if bisexual is front.
Haliwe
Wow.
I am 51. I’ve been with men and women, both just in sexual encounters as in long term relationships. I’ve known many bisexuals, men and women and non-binary people, with long term relationships with more than one gender.
Your ‘statement’ is a lie.
IDoNotHaveToAgreeWithYou
They erased themselves by staying hidden until most of the work was done. You don’t get the spotlight for not participating.
rand503
Yes you do. And there is no reason not too. Freedom and liberty for all means freedom and liberty for all. Period.
Haliwe
Yeah no, that’s not what happened.
What happened is that the mother of the ‘gay’ parade was a bisexual transgender woman. We have been asked, time and again, to not break up the LGBT wall so that outsiders wouldn’t be so confused and the LGBT community as a whole would be able to get their message across easier.
And we did that.
To be accused now of ‘riding your coat tails’ and ‘profiting from the work you did’ is infuriating and offensive.
Back2Stonewall
Please feel free to erase gay Craig Rodwell, his partner Fred Sargeant Marty Nixon, and Foster Gunnison of Mattachine and the Gay Activists Alliance which were also the founding force behind the first Christopher Street Liberation Day Parade as it was called.
Brenda Howard is known as the “Mother of Pride”, for her work in coordinating the march but Howard was NOT transgender. She was a bisexual rights activist, sex-positive feminist, polyamorist and BDSM practitioner.
If you are going to use history as a defense. Get it right.
ErikO
That’s a total myth and revisionist history BS. Bisexual women and men were fundamental and fought alongside gays and lesbians in the fight for “gay” or LGBT rights since even before Stonewall and for decades afterwards, and still do this today.
kent25
That is so true, They need to stay in the closet
Xzamilloh
Hey, no one can get your vision out there better than you, so if you want it done right, do it yourself. It’s that simple.
Donston
They’ve been trying to get it out there as of late. Unfortunately, the arrogance and pretension and narcissism, the evasive and contradictory language, the desire to separate themselves from homosexual identifying people and the multitude of people (particularly men) using bisexuality as a cover for other things keeps getting in the way of this particular “movement”.
natekerchel
I self – identify as a gay man – not just because I have sex with other men, but because I have intimate personal relationships with individual men. For me at least, sex is not the only, or even main, component in a relationship that will be used to determine , or label, sexuality. Some people have pointed out that it is rare for a man who identifies as bisexual to get involved in long term intimate relationships with another man where sex is not the main component. I have absolutely no problem with seeing more bisexuality represented in popular culture, but some bisexual men, in particular, need to be more honest about themselves and the true nature of their relationships with gay men. ‘Relationships’, for most people, are usually not just about sex.
Donston
Yes, a great deal of men who identify as bi but mostly have relationships with women don’t have real sexual attraction to women. But they’ve become accustomed to being with women romantically and sexually, and being loved by a woman and living a hetero life boosts their sense of self. It fulfills their ego more than fully embracing their inherent sexual attractions. Just like their are men who don’t have sexual attraction to men or very minor attraction to men but still look to get sexually or romantically involved with men. These are stereotypes that persists for a reason.
All of this fine. A lot of people weren’t built to live a life reflective of their baseline attractions. Narcissism, fetish, religion, ego, sense of gender, obsession with hetero-normalcy, internalized homophobia etc are things that aren’t going away and will continue to make an impression on who people decide to have sex and relationships with and what they decide to identify as. People understanding that many can indulge sex and relationships with genders they’re not attracted to would egg on more direct honesty.
That’s why I’ve said that labels are getting in the way and are much less important than being honest about your exact sexual attractions, preferences, fetishes and romantic instincts. But most men who indulge bisexual behavior, even most men who identify as bi, have a very difficult time being upfront and real about those things. The pressure is put on homo identifying men, and that’s not where it belongs.
Donston
Also, a lot of people shouldn’t live a life reflective of their baseline attractions, if you know what I mean.
Matthew
It’s interesting that you choose this video to question whether a bi man can have a long term intimate relationship with a gay man. I am just pointing out that the video was created by a bi man who is married to a gay man, so it would seem to contradict your argument.
Also, what kind of special reality do you live in where only bi men are interested in strictly non-romantic sexual relationships? People of all orientations and genders hook up with each other having no expectation of a romantic relationship. And these people do it for many reasons other than some ego driven desire for sexual conquest.
Heywood Jablowme
The sitcom “The Great Indoors” has a bisexual character (Mason). It’s a recurrent humorous theme that Mason, a millennial stereotype, doesn’t want to “label” himself etc. etc. etc. Although I’m pretty sure he has occasionally called himself “bisexual.”
Stephen Fry, who plays the boss on this show, apparently doesn’t find this objectionable. I guess if it’s okay with Stephen Fry it’s okay with me.
I don’t understand millennials and their horror at “labeling” themselves – or their majorly f*cked-up “daddy” issues, or their disgusting tattoos! – I think that’s all really weird, but fortunately I don’t need to understand millennials. They are gonna do whatever they do and it doesn’t concern me. Oh, I f*ck millennial guys occasionally (& I’ve slowly gotten used to that icky “daddy” stuff) but they don’t need me to understand them, they just want to get f*cked. Hey, somebody’s got to do it. 🙂
Bisexual guys who are closer to my age, well, they don’t really concern me either, except I don’t want to kiss a guy who might have been eating p*ssy a week ago. Ew! But I don’t care what they call themselves. That’s up to them and I’m not the lingo police.
Donston
White men who have a shit-load of tats and indulges bisexual behavior- that’s the most obvious version of a narcissist.
Heywood Jablowme
@Donston: The Mason character is black, but otherwise I agree with you!
Donston
I was responding to the part about millennials’ (and I am one) self-obsession, desperation for individuality and complexity, desperation for fame and fascination with tats. Although I can’t lie, some tatted up dudes are sexy. But from a young age I’ve known to stay the hell away from the combination of: white, tatted-up, frequently indulges bi behavior.
Donston
When bi/flexible/fluid/queer/I don’t believe in labels identifying men say things like “I love women”, “being with a woman completes me”, “I don’t want to feel trapped by my sexual attractions”, “anyone can have intimacy with anyone” etc it’s almost always a case of a man who only has real sexual attraction to one gender but whose narcissism, ego, obsession with hetero dynamics, etc won’t allow them to settle into who they are inherently. As I mentioned before there are as well quite a few men who indulge bisexual behavior who don’t have real attraction to other men. And that’s okay. It’s the desire to present themselves as brave or progressive or complex or open-minded or superior and the refusal to be completely honest about who they are and their motivations- that’s what bugs me, and that’s what makes this whole thing so confusing and frustrating for many.
Jack Meoff
“It’s the desire to present themselves as brave or progressive or complex or open-minded or superior and the refusal to be completely honest about who they are and their motivations”
What’s worse is that these guys act like they are doing you a favour if they have sex with you and plenty of gay men treat them that way too.
Donston
Yes, the self-hatred, fetish and hetero-worship goes full circle.
Donston
Also, I recall an ex porn performer who will not be named saying they could only develop feelings for straight or bi identifying men. So much of a lot of behaviors within our “community” is driven by internalized homophobia, hetero worship, obsession with hetero dynamics, etc. But we continue to ignore that.
Donston
You’re not “special”, “complex” or “open-minded” because you don’t live a life according to your sexual attractions. If more guys quit the secrecy, the lying, the pretentiousness, the arrogance and the desire to make themselves and their “lifestyle” look progressive and enviable then there wouldn’t be any problems or resentment, and the true-blue bisexual men (men who have real and substantial sexual attraction to men and women and who view men and women as legit potential romantic partners) wouldn’t be dealing with the nonsense.
ErikO
Donston, it’s pretty tiresome when gay men tell bisexual men that they can’t or should not do certain things especially since gay or LGBT liberation originally was all about being who you are. Personally I find gay men who feel the need to revolve their entire life around being gay and only go to gay bars/clubs, who live in gay ghettos, and who go to gay/LGBT places for vacations to be boring and conformist.
Prax07
Here we go again, I’ll say what I’ve ssid many times before on here. EVERY bi guy I’ve Ever met is Only bi when it suits their sexual or monetary needs. None have Ever said they wanted Any type of relationship with another man, it’s all about using another man for sex, or getting something, mainly money, drugs, or whatever else in addition of sex.
This is Every single last one I’ve had the misfortune of getting involved with over my adult life.
These guys don’t want visibility, they want to live a straight appearing life with a female, and have men on the side exclusively for sex.
Every single one has had narcissistic tendencies, depression, and other psychiatric issues. Every single one was also adept at lying, compartmentalizing their public and DL lives, and keeping thing hidden from everyone in their lives.
So yeah, from my experience most bi guys don’t want any kind of visibility. The ones that say they do, that’s a rare thing. And the ones able to have full honest relationships with other men are even rarer, from my own experience anyway. And it’s never been a good, healthy experience with any bi guy.
rand503
That is good to know. But so what? Even if every bi-guy is like that, they still exist and it doesn’t negate the fact that they do.
ErikO
LMAO your tiresome drivel just shows how you are a bigot that hates bisexual men.
TONS Of gay men do exactly what you described when it comes to “relationships” with men, and there are a lot of gay men on the DL/in the closet, drug addicts, who are severely mentally ill, narcissistic, and do not form healthy relationships at all with anyone.
Prax07
If you watch the main guy in this vid and his many other videos he looks and acts typically gay, almost to being a stereotype. None of the bi guys I’ve ever met have seemed”gay” in any way other than wanting occasional sex with a man. The ones here where I live must act straight to everyone or their worlds will collapse if anyone even has an inkling that they like men. Hence not wanting any visibility. If you look at the Craigslist postings here most of them are from “straight” married or “straight” with girlfriends looking for guy sex on the dl. Most want discreet, when their females are working type situations. Fwb’s, gym buddies, dl Everything.
Even the two guys I met recently say they’re bi, but live with their girlfriends and only want a male sex buddy.
It’s like a bad joke.
Donston
More effeminate men are taking on the bisexual identity (Nico Tortorella, Bryan Singer, Andy Dick, Alan Cumming being famous to semi-famous examples). None of them have ever been straight forward about their inherent sexual attractions. Andy and Bryan have been accused of being sexual abusers on a multitude of occasions. All of them come off extremely narcissistic and fetish/ego driven. All of them seem to worship women or be obsessed with women. All seem to suffer from some degree of gender/body dis-morphia. Alan is the only one who settled down with a man. The patterns can’t be denied.
And yes, if you’re “straight passing” it’s far less likely for you to embrace your inherent attractions.
Donston
In fact, it’s far more likely for effeminate men who identify as bi/fluid/queer etc to stick to that identity. More masculine, “straight passing” who identity as bi tend to eventually settle into a hetero or homo identity. And more so than “straight passing” men effeminate men who identify as bi tend to be far more cagey and vague when explaining the nuances of their identity, hinting that for a great percent the identity and the sex/relationships with men and women is often not driven by genuine sexual attraction.
Also, once again, you’re confusing bi identifying men with men on the DL.
Prax07
My most recent ex, who I fell in love with so deeply, and unfortunately so blindly, that I wanted to run away with him to start “a life together”, his words not mine, after the sheriff’s dept showed up at my house to deliver a PFA on him from his ex fiance, and he wanted to flee the state instead of facing going to court. He’d beaten her after finding out she cheated on him.
He’s “bi”, but only when it suits his needs. He always told me he wanted a real relationship with me, but Had to only be in a “real” relationship with a woman because that’s how it’s supposed to be. DaFuq?
I only found out how broken he really is after I threw him out for lying about women he was sleeping around with.
Every word was a lie, every action staged to present what he thought I wanted, every word to others about who I was were lies, he’s depressive, emotionally unstable, violent towards women, narcissistic, and immature at 29, so much so it was like dating an 18yo.
His patterns, to one degree or another, match every other “bi” guy I’ve ever known. From the married guy that hooked with men to support his wife and kids to the business guy that only married his wife to combine her finances with his.
Every single one was a liar and a narcissistic abuser to some degree.
I can’t imagine having to juggle so many lies, and so many people.
That’s my bi experience, and there’s been a lot of them. Never really counted but I think the bi guys I’ve known outnumber the gay guys by a large number, and all of them are screwed up in the head.
Donston
We do need to make the distinction between guys on the DL, closet cases and men who openly identify as bi. They all often have similar ways, psychologies and circumstances. But it seems guys on the DL are much more likely to resent women and be very dismissive of people in general, while most men who openly identify as bi/fluid/flexible/queer etc seem to worship women, hinting that a lot of the sexual tendencies of these men is driven by their opinion of genders, their opinion of people who identify as certain things and of course driven by their ego.
ErikO
Dude, nobody cares about your ex that you obsess over. You’re a bigot and a hypocrite, and you’re ignoring the large number of gay men who have the qualities that you assign all or most bisexual men.
Donston
Dude, are you seriously gonna respond to every post with “you’re a bigot”. If u don’t have a real argument please stfu. Also, looks like someone needs more of the “education” you accuse others of not having.
natekerchel
The more I read the comments the more I wonder if we need to have a clearer definition of the words ‘gay’ ‘bisexual’ and ‘relationship’. One of the reasons we rarely use the word ‘homosexual’ now is that it is too clinical and has negative vibes attached to it – the right wing and christian extremists love using that word. ‘Bisexual’ also has negative connotations attached – but for different reasons and by mainly different people. The impression I get is that bisexuality, at least from a gay man’s perspective, is far more of a sexual encounter than a ‘relationship’ in its fullest sense, and gay men feel ‘used’ – the deeper implication is that we are not worthy of any kind of deep and meaningful and lasting relationship. We are only good for sex. The point is this – I describe myself as a gay man in the fullest sense of what that implies in terms of a complete ‘relationship’. It has no ‘side’ , no hidden meaning, no pretence to it. Bisexuality, in the experience of many gay men, seems to be about a very limited kind of ‘relationship’ – mainly of a hidden and entirely physical nature. I don’t suggest that bisexual ‘choose’ a side – just that they are more open about their motivations and real long term desires. If i met a bisexual man who said ‘I just want sex and nothing more’ at least that is honest and I can make a decision based on reality – which in my case would be ‘goodbye’. But we don’t get that – we get obfuscation, pretence and sometimes outright lies. That is why bisexual men in particular get such a hard time sometimes. Maybe ‘bisexual’ really means – sex with men and women, long-term relationships only with women so that we can have our cake and eat it.
Donston
“Bisexual” has never meant sex with men and women. The initial definition (which is still the definition when you search bisexual in Google) was having sexual attraction to men and women. And once again, people need to understand that many people have sex with genders they’re not attracted to. Sometimes they get enjoyment out of it depending on their psychology and habits and fetishes.
The “updated” definitions for “bisexual” often includes developing romantic feelings for multiple genders as well as sexual attraction, which, for men in particular, is often just a way for people who only have attraction to one gender to get out of committing themselves to that gender or only having sex with that gender. Even now, it still doesn’t mean sexually engaging with both men and women.
There are plenty of people who indulge bi behavior that don’t truly have sexual attraction to men and women nor do they have romantic instincts towards both men and women. Hence, why many are running away from the word.
Raphael
If RJ is bi, then I am straight. He never fooled anyone in the “Jump cut” video, not fooling anyone now.
Not saying that bisexuals don’t exist, but most that say they are, are not! Most of the real bisexuals never say anything, they rather pass as straight and just do the casual sex outside their marriage. The majority that says they are bi, are just gay wanting to be more accepted. That are even straight people that do it, I know a lot of guys and girls that have no problem kissing the same gender, but would never have sex with them, even so, they tell other people they are bi… Sorry but the “sexual” part of the word has meaning, kissing is not sexual, if you don’t feel sexually atracted, then you’re not bi.
Donston
A lot of people tone down the “sexual attraction” part of sexual orientation. Anyone who identifies as bisexual and actually has a legit bisexual orientation is gonna be direct about their exact attractions. Plenty of people have the ability to de-sexualize sex or turn it into an ego based endeavor or fetishize aspects of it. If you can do that (and most narcissists can) you can pretty much have sex with anybody. And because of that they feel like they can identify as whatever they like.
Mo Bro
Just because some gays cannot fathom bisexuality doesn’t mean it’s nonexistent.
Look at how many gay men have children from a male-female relationship.
Look at how many women can turn their lesbian tendencies on and off like a light switch.
Look at how many straight guys indulge in “experimentation.”
To deny that bisexuality exists is like . . . well, it’s like denying that conservative gays exist.
Donston
Where in this thread do people say bisexual tendencies don’t exist? Hell, I had sex with almost exclusively women until my early twenties and made a child from that particular stretch of me life. Also, we need to stop comparing female sexuality with male sexuality.
Most of the thread is talking about the reality of bisexuality as an orientation not just a representation of tendencies or preferences. It’s also mostly about why those tendencies can exist and the psychological make-up of many bi-identifying men as well as the social politics behind the identity. I suggest thoroughly reading the comment section.
The conversation needs to move beyond the ability to have sex with different genders. And it seems it be finally getting there.
Donston
My whole thing has always been no matter what your inherent attractions are people belong with the gender they feel comfortable being in a relationship with and who they can actually love (if they have the ability to love someone). It’s the deception, narcissism, pretension, secrecy and using of people that annoys me and a lot of others.
natekerchel
Excellent summing up.
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
Gaysplainin away or erasing “heteroflexibilty” is problematic. Bitches need to stay in they own lane
PRINCE OF SNARKNESS aka DIVKID
*Heteroflexibility
(AKA “I like the dick but not the guy attached!!!!)
Donston
Some men are indeed attracted to penis but not to men. Some men enjoy being sexually dominated by masculinity or enjoy sexually dominating men but don’t have genuine attraction to men. Some men enjoy sexually pleasing women but aren’t genuinely attracted to them (this usually happens due to ego or internalized homophobia). Some enjoy sexually dominating women or being sexually dominated by women but don’t have genuine sexual attraction to them.
These aspects of sexuality that are driven by fetish, perversion, ego and narcissism are rarely thoroughly talked about, because men who fit into these categories are usually hush about their behaviors and/or what drives their behavior and usually just find an identity to hide behind or are on the DL.
Donston
I hate to keep posting, but one last point and then I’m pretty much over the “bi-guy” discussion for life.
A lot of people (particularly homosexuals) contend with warped egos and inferiority complexes. One of the ways to contend with that is by having continuous sex and/or relationships with different genders. Getting worshiped and admired by multiple people and different genders boost a sense of self. The ego is stabilized by sexually pleasing or dominating, by romancing different people. And the different feelings they get from being with different people and different genders stimulates the id. That’s why so many men who identify as bi/fluid/queer/flexible etc are often incredibly pretentious, attention seeking and contradictory. That’s not a fair representation of them all. But perhaps the majority of “out and pride” bi-guys fit into that category. Many hetero and homo identifying people who never engage in sex with different genders are like that as well. It just seems to be a persistent pattern for bi-identifying men. People can talk about exceptions all they want. And there are definitely exceptions and I feel for those exceptions.
ErikO
So you’re a gay man who hates bisexual men and you’re a bigot. No surprise there that you’re a total hypocrite.
Donston
Dude, u were dismissed as a fraud a long time ago. I’m surprised you still bother posting here.
I explained my perspective to you on quite a few occasions. Yet, you continue to have no real argument besides calling someone a bigot.
I support people and align with people who live lives according to their authentic selves. So, authentically and openly bisexual men I have nothing against. I’m just aware (very much like I’m sure you are aware) and acknowledge that a lot of identity and behavior is not reflective of who someone truly is. And that I don’t feel connected to.
It’s funny how you (and others) respond to easy to dismiss posts, but will stay away from posts that have substantial and well thought POVs.
He BGB
When I first heard that sexuality was on a 1 to 10 scale with one being 100% straight and the other 100%gay, that was all I needed to hear. I always was under the impression too, that straight guys were turned off by the thought of sex with another man but after several decades of living on this earth, that is not true for all straight guys. As more and more people come out, are visible and it looks like they must be okay, and happy and not mentally ill like we were taught (1973 and before), people are going with their feelings and not being ashamed as much or scared, to be gay, bi whatever. I’m definitely not bi, but I believe it exists.
Donston
This conversation always turns into appeasing straight identifying men and men who have sex with men but wish to primarily date women. Once again, re-iterating how even many homo identifying men are hetero-centric. Also, the Kinsey scale is wildly out-dated and has proven to be almost useless when it comes to male sexuality. It’s an easy thing to link to, but it rarely reflects the multitude of different things that go into sexual attraction, behavior, identity and who people decide to date. Furthermore, I believe only one person in this thread has said bisexuality isn’t real. Neither the article nor the comments are about whether bisexuality exist or not. People continue to take the conversation the PC direction, where they feel most comfortable.
ErikO
No man that’s actually hetero/straight has sex with other men. But you have a lot of gay men who have this pipe dream fantasy or need it.
Donston
So, you’re just another gay man who desperately wants everyone to join the club? If you’ve ever had sexual contact with a man who must be gay or bi! You just have to be!
It’s actually you that’s living a pipe dream. A decent percentage of men can stick their penis in anything (or stick whatever up their butts). If there’s a hole there’s a way. For plenty of people body parts are just body parts and there are lots of things that stimulate people’s sexuality beyond attraction. Sexual orientation is not a behavior or identity. It’s an inherent part of your being. And if you don’t have legitimate sexual attraction to men and women you’re not bi regardless of your identity or sexual behavior. I’ve never had sex with a hetero identifying man in my life. So, I’m not living in a fantasy.
Like I’ve mentioned before, educate yourself greater before you start trying to set others in order. Actually read blogs/forums that are focused on bi/fluid/queer identifying men. Read about the sexual behavior of narcissists and people with schizophrenia, BPD and HPD. Read about fetishes and perversion and ego based sexual behavior. The science and studies are easily accessible. Read interviews of “ex gays” and men who admit to being attracted only to men but decide to have sex and/or relationships with relationships primarily with women. (And yes, I do believe there are men with no attraction to other men who decide to primarily date and have sex with men, but compared to the reverse it’s likely a very small number). Read more about the behavior of men contending with internalized homophobia or misandry. Have in-depth conversations with a decent amount of men who identity as these different things. You’d realize that there is a lot more going on out here than you’d think and it’s actually your POV that is the narrow-minded and biased one.
ErikO
LOL the fact that you actually believe in the whole “ex gay” BS shows how you’re FOS, and sorry just because a man identifies as “straight” if he’s having sex with men or sexually attracted to men he’s bisexual.
Back2Stonewall
While this whining continues about “Bi-Erasure” in media continues. Perhaps you should take a look at this list. I can guarantee you there is more Bi representation than gay male representation in mainstream media. Both film and television.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_media_portrayals_of_bisexuality
Donston
It seems they want more characters who openly identify as bi and who are truly open to relationships with multiple genders. But most bi identifying people do not have relationships with men and women, and a huge percentage live up to bi stereotypes as far as self-obsession, fetish, emotional instability, not being entirely honest about their inherent attractions, etc. It seems they want completely confident in their identity bi-identifying people who are level-headed, engage in non-fetish, non-ego, non self-hating driven sex with men and women and who view men and women as real romantic partners. I think they deserve representation. But those types of bi-identifying people in reality are very far and few between, especially when it comes to men.
But as I said many people who identify as many different things indulge sex with multiple genders. And it is fair to want a greater representation of that.
inbama
Sexual orientations are not “identities.”
Homo-, hetero- and bisexual attraction are physical traits easily measured by testing physical arousal to images which exposes the truth no matter what a person claims.
Donston
Socially, they’re identities. You’re speaking from a scientific standpoint. But often when people speak of their sexual orientation they are not speaking from a scientific perspective.
For years homosexuals (and many bisexuals) have been constantly telling people that their sexuality is something that is an inherent and instinctual part of themselves, and science has proven that is correct with homosexuals and sometimes correct with bisexuals. However, as homosexuality has become more accepted (or at least more acknowledged) we’ve gotten into a tricky stage. Now, sexual identity is more about choice and lifestyle. Nowadays, possibly the majority of bi, fluid, queer, flexible etc identifying men are driven to identify as these things not due to their inherent, scientific baseline attractions but due to ego, fetish, narcissism, internalized homophobia, gender dis-morphia, opportunity, nymphomania, female/feminine-worship, male/masculine-worship, or it’s simply based off of what they can manage to get some enjoyment out of or how they wish to be perceived by the world. And a great deal of these men aren’t willing to be completely straight-forward about that.
The way you live your life should be a choice. Live whatever way that makes you happy so long as you’re not deceiving people and using people. But I don’t think this is a battle that truly, inherently homosexual and bisexual people should be assisting in. It will do us no good in the long run, especially considering the abundant amount of homophobia, internalized homophobia and closet cases that still persists.
DCguy
By your logic, then religion isn’t an identity and shouldn’t be protected. If the arousal is hard wired in, then sexual orientation is under the same category as gender.
Donston
Religion is taught and passed on. How is that comparable to sexual orientation?
For most people sexual orientation is indeed hard-wired. Even the majority of people who identify as fluid or flexible don’t say their inherent attractions change, but rather that their desires, their ability to enjoy sex with a particular gender, their romantic instincts, their emotions and/or lifestyle choices is what changes.
I just have no interest in aligning myself with people whose behavior and, in particular, their identity is based off of things that do not reflect who they inherently are.
inbama
When we get too far from science, we lose credibility.
“Trans brains” are real. “Sexual orientation” is brain determined.
The “Identity” movements trivialize our realities by putting them in the same categories as fashion choices. The idea that someone needing to sport a beard, wear a dress and be called “they” is the equivalent of being lesbian, gay, bi or biologically male, female or trans and be treated with the same seriousness is laughable.
Donston
I agree with this very much. Legitimately homo and bi people have spent years proving that they are not crazy and that their sense of self is not a choice. It’s a battle that trans people are fighting now. I don’t think inherently, scientifically homo, bi and trans people that live authentic to who they are need to be assisting in the battles of people whose sexual and gender “identities” and behaviors are based in narcissism, fetish, perversion, ego, internalized homophobia/obsession with hetero-normalcy and hetero dynamics, the emotions of the day, etc. It makes us look like frauds, and from a political and social perspective it doesn’t help us at all.
People have moved away from science because a great deal of folks don’t want to feel “trapped” by their baseline attractions or sense of gender and want to live as they so wish. And there’s no problem with that. But once again, I don’t think that’s our battle to fight.
frankcar1965
It’s a free country you are able to call yourself whatever you want, but it does not change the fact that you may ACT bisexual but you are not bisexual. It has been shown that people who “identify” as bi usually end up with the same sex in the long run. Look it up, I am not going to do your googling for you. I am free to call bs to all your bi-ness since it is a free country. It is stupid to think most straight men would be bi if it was not frowned upon, another ridiculous idiotic idea from millennials who seem to constantly come up with the most ludicrous sh*t. They think that society has changed with gay marriage but I have news for them, it’s still the same and people do not accept what they think. Gays are still under attack and will be for a long time. Get used to it.
Donston
That perspective is a lil too old school.
But yes, most men who identify as bi (and are still identifying as it by the time they reach their 30’s) are entirely or mostly attracted to men. They may have minor attraction to women, or may just be able to get some enjoyment out of sex with women, or it may boost/sustain their egos to romance or sexually please or worship women, or they may feel more “emotionally connected” to women. But only a fraction of men identifying as bi by the time they hit 30 actually have real and substantial sexual attraction to women (I’d say maybe about 30% at most). It’s rarely a reflection of genuine orientation.
More so than ever these “identities” are being used as a social deflector or a cover for mere behavior or self-hatred or obsession with retaining hetero-normalcy/dynamics or psychological conditions or having certain fetishes. Stopping the obsession with labels and people quitting coming up with new labels every week and instead focusing more on direct honesty when it comes to attraction, behavior, fetish and romantic instinct- that’s what would help the “bi cause”.
Still, homo identifying men have every right to be suspect up to a certain point. Homophobia, internalized homophobia, obsession with conventional masculinity and people using identities, sexual behavior and romantic relationships as a cover for egomania and fetishes/perversions or as an aide for different things going on in their minds- these things are very much prominent in society.
This is a complicated issue because the human mind is complicated and society is complicated and why people do what they do can be complicated. That’s why being so dependent on labels is just not working.
Kenney G
To let them tell it everybody is bisexual, Well whatever gets them through the night. Straight people aren’t turn bisexual and neither are the gay people
wolfbear
Bi erasure in queer media is nothing new. The dustup with “When We Rise” is just another example of it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-suresha/bi-media-lags-behind-ls-gs-and-ts_b_2383895.html
“Bi Media Lags Behind Ls, Gs and Ts”
Kenney G
I just love the way they thinks Bisexuals are a part of every gay person’s daily life. I don’t know anyone who identify as Bisexual.
Maybe Lance Black didn’t know any Bisexuals since most of them are deep in the closet and want the world to think they are straight. That’s why people don’t believe in them . Staying in the closet is the best thing they can do
kent25
Is bisexuality real? I doubt it. No one loves a man the same way they love a woman. Love ain’t got nothing to do with it, It’s all about sex. That’s why they are known as Greedy. Some of the Biggest Bottoms I know are Bisexual and they call themselves straight, and get pissed off if they see you talking to another guy. They think they own you, They don’t want you talking to any other guy. The wives and girlfriends need to keep them away from gay porn and get them into Therapy.