As part of his big Biblical push, Barack Obama announced that he plans on expanding President Bush’s faith-based programs, which Obama says can help alleviate woes for poor and struggling Americans. But there could be trouble: “…Obama’s support for letting religious charities that receive federal funding consider religion in employment decisions could invite a storm of protest from those who view such faith requirements as discrimination… [But] he also only supports letting religious institutions hire and fire based on faith in the non-taxypayer funded portions of their activities, said a senior adviser to the campaign…” [Yahoo!]
Expansion…
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fredo777
I would advise him not to “expand on” or champion anything from Dubya.
– shudders –
Darth Paul
That’s a sh!t idea. Way too many megachurches exploit the hell out of programs like this. I’d accept it, though, if they started taxing churches.
Chris
I hope people who voted for the Obama in the Democratic race aren’t surprised at this move. This asshole did a Gospel Tour as part of his campaign, after all.
queerunity
faith based initiatives are a violation of the first amendment
http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com
emb
Not being one to cut my own nose off in a fit of righteous indignation, I’ll still support Obama (like there’s a constructive alternative likely to do anything other than get mccain into the white house?), but this concept sucks.
The notion that someone the government can fund SOME activities of a religious organization, just the “secular” ones, and be utterly separate from the “religious” operations is simply ludicrous. A church, like any organization, has only X dollars or volunteer resources to spend. If taxpayers foot the bill for the church’s “community services” expenses, then more dollars abnd bodies are left for the church to invest in prostletizing and sermonizing and starting up back-assed bible-based schools.
There’s no way around the “faith-based initiative” being a thinly-cloaked funding of overtly religious (and usually discriminatory) activities, in blatant violation of the Constitution.
Pandering for votes is fine; one can only hope he’s lying through his teeth like any other politician–which is in itself disappointing.
fredo777
“people who voted for the Obama”
The Obama? And here I thought he was just regular ol’ Obama. Silly me.
Mark
not to be construed as a personal attack, EMB, because there’s enough of that going around here, but…
How many more things would you have to hold your nose on to not vote for Obama…because the past couple of weeks seem to have been a parade of “surprises” for his supporters (I’m not one, and not surprised, myself)…at some point, I think there’s gotta be a reassessment. I paid attention during the primaries and I think you were lied to about the type of candidate you were supporting.
I don’t suggest you vote McCain (in fact, I suggest people vote third party), but frankly at this point I know McCain’s a problem and I like confronting problems head-on, not by pulling a knife out of my back…
And, this one particularly, I think you could have seen it coming pretty easily via his associations with radicals like Wright and McClurkin….
fredo777
Voting third party, you might as well vote for McCain.
Cath
After my job at a non-profit was eliminated and being diagnosed with a chronic illness, I found myself in need of help (training, job search, career advise and food).
A seemingly secular charity here (AWEE.org) looked like a good fit, until I told their coordinator that I wanted to confine my job search to gay-inclusive companies with non-discrimination policies. The harangue from the coordinator that ensued was humiliating to say the least. Should have gotten a clue when their contractor who presented the job search seminar kept referring to his “good Christian daughter” who broke off her engagement to an “illegal Mexican’ (yeah, completely irrelevant AND offensive).
You’ve got to watch this faith-based initiative stuff: It screams, NO GAYS.
Some red states have no networks of gay-inclusive direct services charities. Let private charities discriminate (as long as they say so clearly and publicly), but not tax-funded nonprofits.
Chris
No, you voted for The Obama, his holiness. Bow down and worship at the feet of your messiah.
Faith-based initiatives full speed ahead.
CHURCHILL-Y
BIG whOOpDiDoO!! After all the Mcclurkin and James Meeks red flags going around this guy it shouldn’t be any surprise that’s one of the many ways in which he plans to reward his conservative solid block(african Americans).
Thank goodness the waters are becoming clearer.
Folks don’t let yourselves be intimidated by the Mo’s(777)or emb’s of this world, Y’all know why people like them will still support him no matter what. Keep educating yourselves about this guy.
John
Ah yes, the inevitable pivot towards triangulation. After all that “change” hype and hoopla during the Democratic primary, looks like we ended up with a Clinton after all. Lets look at the highlights from the last week:
– Obama votes for FISA (the telecom immunity legislation that allows phone companies to spy on you and I without any legal reprecussion)
– Obama supports the Supreme Court’s reversal of the DC, SF, and Chicago gun bans.
– Obama abhors the fact that the Supreme Court doesn’t allow capital punishment for child molestors.
– Obama says he doesn’t approve of same-sex marriage, but sends out a message to Pride organizers praising the California Supreme Court anyway
– Obama loves faith-based initiatives
– Obama lets Michelle act as a surrogate between him and special interest groups (read: corporations and lawyers), and then attacks anybody who dares criticize her role for “distracting” us from “real issues.”
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you William Jefferson Obama.
fredo777
Of course everyone knows why I’m voting for him. My being black dictates every decision in my life, including how I vote, what I wear, eat, drink, think, read, listen to, + watch on TV. Obviously.
Fuck up, Churchy.
CHURCHILL-Y
That’s right No. 12 · John,
***** William Jefferson JellObama*****
Our saviour!
emb
Right, don’t be fooled by people who say “Look at the whole picture: If on balance you think an Obama administration would be preferable to mccain’s continuation of the bush “presidency”, then continue supporting him.” That sort of rationality is definitely not to be listened to.
Third parties, votes of conscience, write-ins, and ideological purity are all well and good, but not when a consistently 5-4 Supreme Court is on the brink of a generation or more of disaster; when the environment has been crippled by not just neglect but aggressive destruction; when the US economy is in the toilet along with our international prestige; when soldiers are dying in one unfounded, unjust, unwise and immoral war and mccain/bush are poised to start another.
Under the circumstances I’ll happily vote for a guy I agree with 50% of the time over one who would be a 100% disaster. It’s not a politically pure thing, but it’s an act of self-preservation.
If I demand that any candidate I vote for agrees with me on all issues, is an outspoken advocate of gay rights, and never deviates from the path of ideological purity, I’ll be spending a lot of election days at home twiddling my thumbs while the nation collapses under republicans.
Rock
Can we talk about something that matters?
Madonna might be getting DIVORCED! Stop the presses.
Mark
damn fredo, are you saying it doesn’t? Being white runs mine like a mofo. 🙂
(although Obama calling his grandmother a “typical white person” still sticks in my throat).
CHURCHILL-Y
Just remember folks If you don’t like this and plan on questioning Obama or his supporters about it or other more things on his “big Biblical push”
agenda/laws then you’re a RACIST!, doesn’t matter that he is planning to expand(more than Bush) more religious bigotry against GLBT people. We do not matter but if you dare question him YOU’RE A RACIST because race matters, sexual orientation and gender identity, Feh! “Taking our votes for granted” does it sound so far fetched now or do we need more examples and after the examples, laws.
emb
Um, I don’t recall calling anyone racist for questioning Obama’s highly questionable policies. I MAY have suggested some people were being self-destructive and short-sighted by threatening to take their marbles and go home, but I’ve yet to suggest it’s a racial thing.
As a guilty white male, of course, I’m voting for him no matter what, just to assuage my gnawing sense of injustice. Well, that and I think mccain’s a dangerous loony.
fredo777
; )
Mark, it stuck in mine, too. When I heard that, I was like…ugh.
– slaps forehead –
Tom
I really question the motivations of someone who is always the first to raise race as an issue. Contrary to the posts on here, Church always claims someone is calling him a racist. Maybe his past haunts him or he can’t escape from his nightmares, but no one called him a racist. He may be a sick, twisted, totally fucked in the head individual, but no one here said he is a racist. Hell, for all we know, he may even be an ethnic minority. Regardless of his race, he still remains above all else, a sick, twisted, totally fucked in the head individual who never has anything of value to say about anything.
fredo777
Church, your being called a racist has very little to do w/ challenging Obama + very much to do w/ things like calling me “Moesha” the other day b/c you know I happen to be black.
While we’re promoting “truth”, why don’t you practice a little of what you preach + be honest about the highly probable reason that you, specifically, dislike Obama so much?
CHURCHILL-Y
You can twist and spin all you want but whenever anyone has opposed one of Obama’s statements and debacles you have either insinuated or call them a racist. And I ‘m sure you’ll continue doing it, because that’s your strategy since you can’t defend him any other way. But enough of that because that’s what you want this conversation to be about and not his stances. Sure 777 🙂 here’s a few: Donnie Mcclurkin/Mary Mary, James Meeks, “I still think that these are decisions that need to be made at a state and local level.” “I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman,” “his big Biblical push,” “expanding President Bush’s faith-based programs”. In general his hypocrisy/double standards of seeing nothing wrong with a second class citizen status for a group of Americans. But I know that you don’t get that, since you have stated in previous postings that sexual identity based discrimination on jobs, housing , marriage etc , can’t be compared to the ones people of color faced on jobs, housing, marriage etc. Yeah, there should be a distinction between these two groups of American citizens.
Anywho.. I’m glad that the mask is slowly being removed from him. And that people are learning more of what he really thinks and intends to do if he gets elected. Remember he knows that after, he needs to deliver some goods(bad for us) to his religious bigot supporters if he wants another shot in 2012. So all these hints his giving to them makes sense and is in accordance with his political plans.
fredo777
No, you twist + spin.
Better yet, you can sit + spin.
You’ll be free to assault someone’s integrity or character w/ an iota of credibility once you ‘fess up to your own bigoted slant. Actually, you won’t. But at least you’ll be an honest asshole.
mark
It’s that Joshua Bobois on Obama campaign who booked donnie closet-case McClurkin, that is doing this faith push, and if he imagines he has a second chance to treat LGBT voters to ANOTHER Sister Souljah smack down….he is really REALLY mistaken.
Tread very gingerly Barack.
La Chingona
UPDATE:
Looks like it’s too late to keep the feathers from being ruffled, but this story has been rejected by the Obama Campaign. Here’s the Huffington Post on the story and the modification: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/01/obama-plans-to-expand-bus_n_110140.html
blake
Church-Nazi,
Someone is not a racist for disagreeing with Obama. I didn’t support Bush on his “Faith-based Initiative” and I don’t like Obama playing into this because I believe in the concept of Separation of Church & State. To that end, people who support Obama and don’t like this can make their opinions known.
You, Church-Nazi, on the other hand, are a confessed racist, white supremacist! Repeatedly on this site, you have used racist epithets to attack black members of this site. You use words like “ghetto,” “projects,” and “Moesha” amongst others to insult them.
You posted material from a white supremacist website. You make broad, vicious derogatory generalizations about African-Americans. That’s what makes you a racist.
You use Obama’s middle name, Hussein, to inject xenophobia, hoping to inflame false beliefs that Obama is a Muslim or that there is anything wrong with having an unusual name. Got news for you, there are lots people who recognize how you and others play that game: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/us/politics/29hussein.html
Pretend all you want that your legacy of hatred can be hidden. It can’t!
There’s a difference between opposing a candidate because of his positions versus hating a candidate because of his “race.” Your words of racism precede you and color all of your comments.
mark
I guess Obama’s campaign got the message from LGBT leaders we ain’t havin this again.
from Huffington Post
“UPDATE: An Obama campaign official told the Huffington Post that the AP’s claims about Obama allowing hiring or firing based on faith are false. From a portion of Obama’s speech today:
“Now, make no mistake, as someone who used to teach constitutional law, I believe deeply in the separation of church and state, but I don’t believe this partnership will endanger that idea – so long as we follow a few basic principles. First, if you get a federal grant, you can’t use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can’t discriminate against them – or against the people you hire – on the basis of their religion. Second, federal dollars that go directly to churches, temples, and mosques can only be used on secular programs. And we’ll also ensure that taxpayer dollars only go to those programs that actually work.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/01/obama-plans-to-expand-bus_n_110140.html
fredo777
This just in (or, at least, I just read it):
Stephen Baldwin threatens to leave the country if Obama wins + boasts his support of McCain.
I think my love for Barack just went up by a few pts.
emb
Fredo777, you have just shared the clearest reason for supporting Obama warts and all. Thanks!
fredo777
Oh my God. Talk about a Freudian slip.
At the end of the vid clip from Stephen’s Fox News interview, he says: “…and I believe John McCain is gonna be the next President of the United Straights, and should be.”
Watch it.
blake
UPDATE: An Obama campaign official told the Huffington Post that the AP’s claims about Obama allowing hiring or firing based on faith are false. From a portion of Obama’s speech today:
“Now, make no mistake, as someone who used to teach constitutional law, I believe deeply in the separation of church and state, but I don’t believe this partnership will endanger that idea – so long as we follow a few basic principles. First, if you get a federal grant, you can’t use that grant money to proselytize to the people you help and you can’t discriminate against them – or against the people you hire – on the basis of their religion. Second, federal dollars that go directly to churches, temples, and mosques can only be used on secular programs. And we’ll also ensure that taxpayer dollars only go to those programs that actually work.”
The Politico, meanwhile, describes Obama’s new plan not as an expansion of Bush’s Faith-Based Initiative, but as an effort to tear down what Bush created and establish a new program with a new set of goals:
Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) slammed President Bush’s faith-based program as “a photo-op” and a failure on Tuesday, and said he will scrap the office and create a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships that would be a “critical” part of his administration.
Obama, unveiling a plan to overhaul and expand Bush’s faith-based program during remarks at a community ministry in Zanesville, Ohio, said the White House Office of Community and Faith-Based Initiatives – which Bush founded during his second week in office – “never fulfilled its promise.” […]
Reaching out to evangelicals who are non-plussed by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), Obama declared: “I still believe it’s a good idea to have a partnership between the White House and grassroots groups, both faith-based and secular. But it has to be a real partnership – not a photo-op. That’s what it will be when I’m President. I’ll establish a new Council for Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships.”
“The new name will reflect a new commitment,” he continued. “This Council will not just be another name on the White House organization chart – it will be a critical part of my administration.”
fredo777
Other celebs who support McCain:
Wilford Brimley, Jerry Bruckheimer, Sly Stallone, Kelsey Grammar, Tom Selleck (I’m never going to wank to a pic of that hairy bastard again).
fredo777
* Grammer
CHURCHILL-Y
Oh please, like religious organizations haven’t used as ass-wipe those “principles” when they decide to proselytize and hire they find more than one way to cover-up their discrimination and bigotry. But in order to pander to them Obama is more than willing to throw out to the trash the same principles he says he used to “teach”.
No. 25: Obama cares a rats behind about LGBT people, hes doing more pandering now to the people he knows he need to have in his pocket the religious bigots.
Having people like the schmuck(blake)and Mo(777) within our community is like having a worm inside an apple. Although they are part of it, their duality makes them have their allegiance, devotion and care be with their other group.
No matter what this wobbler hypocrite says and do you know they are going to try to spin it and make excuses for it.
As for the rest of us, How many slaps in the face do we have to f-cking take from?!
CHURCHILL-Y
How many slaps in the face do we have to f-cking take from him before we wake up and open our eyes?!
kevin
Remember, even if federal anti-discrimination laws are perfectly enforced, which is what Obama is calling for, there are none for GLBT people. So, we will have no recourse when we are discriminated against by faith based groups.
Charley
Compromise and move to the center. Queers shouldn’t expect much, a few crumbs from Michelle at the Waldorf Astoria, because it means MONEY.
mark
LGBT folks can be a Democratic candidate’s best friend or worst enemy. Almost no LGBT person expects a candidate will be 100% with us on all issues. Don’t lie to us, don’t stab us in the back, and don’t treat us without respect.
Do those three simple things, and the wallets and purses OPEN, the volunteers appear, and we get ourselves to the polls in record breaking numbers.
fredo777
Yes, yes.
“Duality”, b/c (of course) my blackness takes precedence over my gayness. Even though I’m gay, my being black magically makes it okay for me not to be discriminated against or denied something (i.e. same-sex marriage, adoption, etc) b/c I can always play the almighty race card.
Which, as Churchy knows, trumps any + all laws.
‘deed.
Rex
I have no problem with faith based iniatives IF 1) they do NOT discriminate 2)If they ONLY USE the monies to help the under-privelaged and needy 3) As long as the monies are NOT used in any way political/lobbying etc…against the LGBT community
Eminent Victorian
This is something of a deal-breaker for me where Mr. Obama is concerned. It reeks of pandering.
Mr C
It amazes me how some of you that bow at the feet of Hillary would honestly think she’d be all things LGBT. And that is a REAL DREAM that will never come true. Acknowledgement without actions is DEAD!
You kids have got to be kidding.I have no problem with faith based iniatives either as long as it doesn’t affect me and my life. More power to them.
If we want equality for US we must remember other groups and lifestyles have the right to operate as well.
But don’t tell Churchychicken that as far as he is concerned Hussein Obama is the Black Messiah to Black people, Then I wonder who is Diane Rodham Clinton
Mother Hillary mother of God to LGBT?
Charley
Faith in what? There is nothing up there but air and clouds, planets and space petering out into nothingness.
Mr C
Oh Charley…………………
Sweetie, We all have a right to believe in a higher power.
Konrad
The left wing freaks if a church gets a government grant to provide health care to people in need because “The notion that someone the government can fund SOME activities of a religious organization, just the “secular†ones, and be utterly separate from the “religious†operations is simply ludicrous.”
The right wing freaks if Planned Parenthood gets a government grant to provide health care to people in need because they think it is indirectly funding abortion.
Its all rubbish. The government puts out a grant proposal. The grantee is required to do X, Y and Z. Organizations apply. What the organizations do otherwise is no one’s business.
Anyway, gotta go. Need to fill out my Pell Grant application for my Georgetown University tuition.
Bob
I think it’s sad that EMB and others are now rolling out the fear-based “THINK OF THE SUPREME COURT” argument to convince us all to vote for Obama. Is that all you’ve got left? I thought Obama was supposed to be the cure for all the world’s ills and the messiah for us liberals, and now the only argument left is that we need to think of the Supreme Court when deciding between Obama, McCain, and third party candidates? And how do we know for sure Obama’s not going to stack the court with right-wingers? He’s made a hard run to the right the past few weeks and fucked us over in so many ways (in fact, a telecom company might be helping the government spy on me right now as I post this, and Obama is right there helping them do so!), how do we know our so-called hero isn’t going to simply fuck us all again? I’m still waiting to see what exactly is that change we can believe in …
slider
I find it a joke that Nobama says that electing John McCain will give us a third Bush term when in fact with Nobama and his pandering he will give us exactly that…..Nobama is just another opportunist, flip flopping politican with no core values and no core positons and the only qualifications he has to be President are those listed under the U.S. Constitution in order to be elected President..he is at least 35 years of age and citizen of the United States (meaning he is not a naturalized citizen.)
No wonder John Kerry endorsed Nobama….one flip flopper recognizes another….
Nobama is the 2008 version of Jimmy Carter, who in 1976 promised to never lie to us and won the election..Nobama promises change (yeah right..with the likes of Bush programs) and doesn’t say what that means…..
we ended up with the worst economy since the Depression under President Carter…now we will get the same thing and worse under Nobama who can’t can’t say no to taxes and flip flops all over the place on every issue…
I find it a joke that Democrats said in 2000 that Bush was an inexperienced candidate and Nobama (a part time state Senator..and since he has been running for President for 2 of his 3 years as a U.S. Senator..a part time U.S. Senator at best) gets the Messiah treatment..the way Jimmy Carter did in 1976…
what is that old saying “those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it”…again and again…..I can hear old Ronnie Reagan saying to Jimmy Carter “there he goes again”……with Nobama more of the same…..Jimmy Carter the Second and the misery index for our economy under a Nobama Presidency is going to be sky high and never mind more humiliation in foreign affairs like we got with Carter…..yep, here we go again.
fredo777
I find it a joke that you are attacking Obama for flip-flopping, while not focusing on McCain + how he flip-flops all over the damn place.
CHURCHILL-Y
Oh please 777, put a sock on it you double face hypocrite and stop attacking people who see the hypocrisy about Mr. Obama. McCain is not presenting himself as an agent of change, McCain is not a member of a minority which should know better how such proposals as those as Barack is making have often lead to discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity because yes like race some LGBT people can’t hide their mannerisms looks and often become fair target for ‘religious’folks and organizations most of whom are funded in some way or another by government programs like the ones Barack wants to extend.
fredo777
Churchy, you are full of shit.
So much so, I don’t know whether to argue with you or drop one of those blue toilet disks in your mouth.
I’m leaning toward the latter.
mark
Thanks for the laugh fredo777
fredo777
Much obliged.
Mr C
Bob and Slider,
It’s a free country and you can support McCain and if you believe that he will not put conservative justices on that court then you believe every day is Sunday.
He is not a real independant having talks with Billy Graham…(hint). And if he wins he will put those justices (Right wing) up there and states rights will become more evident and this will teach you girls a valuable lesson because this will be the worst 4 years you’ll ever have unless you plan on going back into the closet.
Maybe you should then be considered a closeted conservative queen…..
Just a few thoughts.
As for Churchychicken her hatred is so thick it’s sickening. Girl you’re so bitter about Blacks let one fuck you real good. You’ll change your mind set….Stupid ass queen!
Mr C
Oh wait Churchychicken
You said “McCain is not a member of a minority which should know better how such proposals as those as Barack is making have often lead to discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity because yes like race some LGBT people can’t hide their mannerisms looks and often become fair target for ‘religious’folks and organizations most of whom are funded in some way or another by government programs like the ones Barack wants to extend.”
REALLY???????
I guess George W Bush is Black??????
And if so that is news to me and all of us and John McCain has no plans to give LGBT’s ANYTHING and he is WHITE…
DAMN girl you’re a real nelly sissy!